Acidosis:

Tell this to "graduates" who do not know their rights from wrongs

For some of us who are highly learned we understand the entire process

By the way, why do you keep 'shouting' pathologists? How many Nigerian hospitals employ pathologists?

Can a pathologist function without those you condemn so much?
Lol

This aint the issue anyway, why should you and your allied block the progress of others? Insecurity? lol

Most Public offices and Ministries are headed by BSc/MSc holders (i.e Bachelors & Masters). abi una carry wetin pass bachelors?

Why do you keep giving the public wrong impression about Lab guys? Haven't you seen Lab scientist and even technologists with Masters degrees, PhDs?

You think every other person on Lab coat (who isn't a medic) schooled in Health Tech?


Our President is truly weak; people like you should be out of the hospital...

Why is it that you, the lab. Scientists won't allow Biochemists n Microbiologists work with you n the lab? Or do a year course to get licensed to operate a lab? Why the superiority and ego Lab scientists show Lab technologists(that can do everything the lab scientist can do)? So many to point out...

You see?? The lab scientists and this their natural bitterness didn't start today... Pls remove the log in your eyes before removing the spec in anoda person's eye...

#advice

stine b: For your information, CT scan is not the most complex Imaging modality.Unless you mean that's the highest you have seen and admired .I'm pleased to inform you of other recent Imaging modalities such Magnetic Resonance Imaging, Positron Emission Tomography scans. I'm sure you haven't heard about them, yet you claim to know all that cocerns Healthcare as a Doctor. There is need for consultacy in Radiography, Pharmacy,Physiotherapy,Nursing and Medical Laboratory Scientist. I pity you guys. This is just the beginning of your end.

so MRI and PET are new modalities . radiographers also carry out PET studies abi??

people who know nothing trying to shove half backed knowledge down out throats.

ujustice: . If you fall sick or need an operation take it to a pharmacist, nurse or lab scientist...you can go further and take it to a hospital cleaner. Be reminded that a pharmacist by training should work in a drug company producing drugs.do you know that engineers are members of johesu? How would you like to go to a hospital headed by an engineer? Or a law court where the judge is a medical doctor from the courts clinic, because he has the longest years of experience working in the premises of the court? No let's make the clerk in the senate the senate president after all he has been there longer than the elected legislators..

i like this one.

Omonoba1: henceforth, you are ignored!! you can Go n ...

omonoba pls wait till you reach clinic before you can analyse whole situation

back to the topic,
reading through the post. the underlies of every issue is money! someone was complaining what a house officer and a copper doctor collect as salary compare to other coppers. smh
oh johesu claiming what is obtain in other country but forget that there is difference in method of training here and over there.

Joenz: Another pathological lie typical of the lying egomaniac Nigerian physicians.whrever u practice in Nigeria,hw can u say med students n physicians pay for patients' tests MOST times,dnt u guys av conscience at all?

easy! take it easy. i'm a dental student here in ile ife, complete denture(CD) most times are paid by students all in the name of fulfilling requirements. i had to buy a certain set of instrument almost 100k because the university fails to provide it in my pt4

but if they want doctors' jobs... cnt they just go back to school instead of flying the fence... how do u change a technician to an engineer??

eby001:
omonoba pls wait till you reach clinic before you can analyse whole situation

back to the topic,
reading through the post. the underlies of every issue is money! someone was complaining what a house officer and a copper doctor collect as salary compare to other coppers. smh
oh johesu claiming what is obtain in other country but forget that there is difference in method of training here and over there.

The dude ain't going to any clinic. He's a fraud.

so if the gov fails to provide i must not do the necessary things to get properly train. NO
all the i-know-better-than-you stuff so i must earn more than you do.(yes, a nurse by virtue of years in service and working in a hospital environment have experience than an up-coming doctor,doesn't certify him/her in any capacity to carry out certain roles. if a road side mechanic knows how to carryout a job better than an engineer doesn't make him a professional but an artisan.

blaise26.abj:


Point of Correction. Anyone that assists in saving lives, even the cleaners ,is very important. "Not that important" my foot.

Let me state that all health workers are important!!

But let's also state that importance is relative!
And their are always levels of importance !
So for ease of understanding I'm going to run parallels


Highest. Middle. Lowest
Doctor. Nurse Radiographer
Soldier. Civil defense. Boys scout
lawyer. Court clerk Paralegal
Professor. Teaching assistant. Lab technologist
Husband and wife. Children. House girl

Now all are important but responsibilities vary! For these responsibilities to be carried out there are specific requirements.
If you meet these requirements you can choose to take such. But if not , you have no business trying

Now lets give unto ceaser what is due ceaser!

Tbamo:

Let me state that all health workers are important!!

But let's also state that importance is relative!
And their are always levels of importance !
So for ease of understanding I'm going to run parallels


Highest. Middle. Lowest
Doctor. Nurse Radiographer
Soldier. Civil defense. Boys scout
lawyer. Court clerk Paralegal
Professor. Teaching assistant. Lab technologist
Husband and wife. Children. House girl

Now all are important but responsibilities vary! For these responsibilities to be carried out there are specific requirements.
If you meet these requirements you can choose to take such. But if not , you have no business trying

Now lets give unto ceaser what is due ceaser!

This is so on point!
100likes

stine b: I am trying to fanthom if you are a medical officer or House officer maybe even a 2nd MB drop out. For a start,I want to introduce my self as a proud Medical Imaging Specialist A.K.A Radiographer I wish to inform you that as far as my practice of Radiography is concerned,We have trained Radiographers who report Tomograms(CT scan Images, MRI Images, Mamograms and Radiographs(Not picture as you call it). I have worked in Australia,UAE and Grenada before returning home to set up my private diagnostic centre where we run X-ray, Ultrasound,ECGand Laboratory Test. We didn't engage any Doctor in our practice because there are not needed. We have been precise and succesful with our test procedures without any complain from anywhere. It will suffice you to note that I take the X-ray exposure and report the Radiographs afterward with my name and Qualifications written and stamed there in. Same thing goes for general and specialised Ultrasound scan procedures(You can see that I have no need for a RADIOLOGIST,who after graduating from Medical school,decides to come and idle in my field of Radiography because of Lack of Job)
Furthermore, I employed a Medical Laboratory Scientist to oversee our Laboratory and he is very copetent in that line without the involvement of any socalled Pathologist. There is a pharmacy outfit beside us where we Reffer patients to buy their medications if need be, especially in Swab M/C/S etc.The good news is that patients get well after diagnosis and take prescribed medications from the pharmacist. We only refer a case that is worth Refferable to selected Hospitals that understand what Team work or division of labor means so that they can also do the needful. For your information Student Dr. Phantom,Nigerians are getting more exposed to know that you musnt go to the Hospital and see a Doctor to be well. 70% of our patients walk into our diagnostic outfit to give their complains.From our vast clinical knowledge based on experience and reading, we clerk them and carry out investigations where needed and where were see an issue we refer them to pharmacy for drugs or to a Hospital for care.
All the points you have been raising in this thread are only applicable in Government Health Institutions where you have your peers as Directors hence JOHESU petition and outcry to put an end to this anomaly.Government researched and constructively reasoned with JOHESU by accepting to implement our plea and a certain unrecognized Association in Nigeria Trade Unionism called NMA is striking against another mans career progression. All this anomalies in the health sector is what made me to reject an appointment from OAU Teaching Hospital Ife, after my Internship because I didn't want to be restrained from progressing in my career. I never regretted my decision to turn down the offer, because I have made so much money both abroad and in my private practice in Nigeria, A thing that I can only dream of probably after Retiring from the current Healthcare Institutions if I had taken their offer. Infact we need a change in this Rotten sector Instigated by a group of practitioners(NMA) that has little knowledge in Management.
In summary, I heard you said Doctors can do other professional duties. With all sense of seriousness I disagree with you. The day I catch any socalled Doctor Touching an X-ray,CT,Mammo,MRI or even an ultrasound machine,talkless of operating them, I'll so sue them using Decree No. 42 of Federation an act that empowers only Radiographers to run diagosis with those modalities.
Infact Dr. Phantom or whatever you call yourself, I openly challenge you on Clinicals let's see who knows it better.
Go to College of Medical Science University of Calabar and hear how student Radiographers beat Medical students in a quiz organised by the College provost for Anatomy courses (Neuro, Embryology,Gross,Histology etc)
Most of us chosed Radiography as First and 2nd Choice during our Jamb, because we wanted to be Radiographers(Eyes or Oracle of Medicine) Can you beat that? Cheers bro.

Oga stop spewing rubbish here jare. You should be rotting in Jail for this your statement. You dey clerk patient.....do u know what it takes to arrive at a diagnosis? You trained drop outs to interprete radiographs and kill patients. A radiographer is like a photographer....nothing more. It is your type that engage in grandiosity and call yourself a doctor when you are not one. I'm sure in that your shop you will be telling people there that you are a doctor. But one day the truth will incarcerate you. Stay within your jurisdiction and stop trying to be who you are not.

The strike continues, No going back until sanity is restored.

Consultants and Chief Medical Officers in other Government Hospitals in the Developed World (International best practices/standards).


We do not need to travel far and wide to know what is happening in other parts of the world because the world has become a global village, all thanks to information technology.
The conflict in Nigeria health sector has tugged me to search for what is obtainable on the key warring issues in other developed countries. Ideally the Nigeria Health system format is supposed to be compared with that of the Britain(not the American’s) since Nigeria adopted and is using the British educational/health systems; however reference has been made on American health system in this write up, for obvious reason. I deliberately sourced for all information from current and popular international encyclopedia and/or professional websites not hosted by medical doctors.

Medical/hospital Consultant
The term or title “consultant” is coined from consultation. It is wise to see the standard definitions of medical consultation; which are:
Medical consultation is a formal meeting with a medical doctor for discussion or the seeking of advice….{ www.en.m.wikipedia.org/consultation(medical)}.
It is also defined as a procedure whereby, on request by one Physician, another Physician reviews a patient’s medical history, examines the patient and makes recommendation as to care and treatment….. ( www.medical dictionary.freedictionary.com/medical consultation).

In the UK, Republic of Ireland and parts of the commonwealth countries Medical Consultant is the title of a senior hospital-based physician or surgeon who has completed all of his/her specialist training….. {www. en.m.wikipedia.org/consultant (medicine) , www.medical dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/consultant(medicine), www.gapmedics.co.uk/difference between consultant and a doctor in a hospital }



Consultant Pharmacist
In America Pharmacists are broadly grouped into two:
1. Health system pharmacist
2. Consultant pharmacist
The health system pharmacist is hospital-based pharmacist that provides care to patient on healthcare team. They undergo residency training but are not awarded the title of consultant….(www.asph.org).

Consultant Pharmacists are pharmacist that work as private pharmacist for individual elderly persons or is employed to work in old people homes(institute) to enhance quality of care for all old persons. They are non-hospital staff and do not undergo residency training but write preparation/recertification examinations. They are also called senior care pharmacist… (www.ascp.com).

In USA Consultant Nurse is a registered nurse who uses expertise as a healthcare provider and specialized training to consult on medical related legal case. They assist attorneys in reading medical records and understanding medical terminology and healthcare issues to achieve the best results for their client. They are non-hospital staff….( www.en.m.wikipedia.org/nurse consultant)

Chief Medical Director (Office)
This title is used in many countries for the senior government official designated as head of medical services, usually at the national level. He advices and leads a team of medical experts on matters of importance. { www.en.m.wikipedia.org/chief medical officer, medical dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/chief medical officer, www.ehow.com/chief medical officer, www. gov.uk/government/people/sally-davies}



Surgeon General
In the United States and many areas of the British Commonwealth, this title refers to a physician commissioned by government and entrusted with the public health responsibilities.
In Uk Surgeon General is the senior medical officer of the British Armed Forces… ( www.en.m.wikipedia/surgeon general UK/USA).

Hospital Chief Executive Officer is the highest management position within a hospital in the capitalist countries. He or she is expected to have masters in business Administration, masters in healthcare Administration etc….( in Nigeria such a position is designated as Director of Administration in Teaching Hospitals)……www.degreetree.com/how to become a hospital ceo.

Health Care Professionals are divided into two broad groups:
1. Core Healthcare Professionals
2. Support (Allied) Healthcare Professionals
The core professionals are doctors, nurses and pharmacists….others, except these three, are allied professionals…… (www.wikipedia.org/allied health professions)

Unsuspecting public please read this before JOHESU Brain washes you.

FACTS ABOUT HOSPITAL MGT BY Archibong F. | Medical World Nigeria - MWN

http://www.medicalworldnigeria.com/2014/07/facts-about-hospital-mgt-by-archibong-f#.U7LVJRPtu6s.facebook

barcanista: True...doctors don't av d luxury of "rest" like their professional colleagues. The issue now is that the Johesu did not tell us that the Office of Chief Nursing and co officers exist.
I am sure no doctor will entertain a situation where the offices of, Chief Nursing Officer and Chief Pharmacist are ALL occupied by a Nurse. It is so unacceptable and immoral for others to fight for the post of CMD when they have provisions for their own Chiefs.
Johesu should plssss tell us the whole situation of things. At the same time the Meds/NMA should strenthen their PR dept so as to gv the public the necessary informationn on what is going on and also tackle misleading information.

Honestly, NMA's public rating is going low these days....


However, strike is not the best when it comes to dispute resolution.

Barcanista, since you want to know, I will try to let you see.
Now, there is both the professional and administrative hierarchical ladder among the parallel medical & paramedic workers.
What you are seeing is actually the envy & jealousy rather than rightful demand for fairness by JOHESU. In fact, that the NMA & NARD are embarking on this current is to tell you that they didn't do the needful on time, when this allied-medical staff started their trouble many years ago.
Docs are used to these tantrums as it is normal day issue.

Back to what I was saying about hierarchy.
At the professional level, each various disciplines has its crops of higher qualified professionals either with passage of time, acquisition of more professional certificates or both.
Of the various medical & paramedic disciplines, it is the doctors who usually become a professional ( physician/surgeon consultant ) ONLY by rigorous professional training & certifications.
Other allied-medics usually become professional due to passage of time e.g the nurses.
Hence, you have professional positions like Senior Nursing Officer SNO, Assistant Chief Nursing Officer ACNO, Chief Nursing Officer CNO & Principal Nursing Officer PNO.
Only a few actually pick some basic certificates, from may be 2-3 weeks of training, which actually is not a prerequisite to attain higher ladder.
Now, the doctors do not have problem with these allied-medical staffs and their hierarchy.
But the allied-medical staffs covet that Consultant ( which only few of the docs actually attain ) and wants to achieve so by mere certifications of 2-3weeks training!!!!

Now, at the administrative front, it is same story.
All units contributing to the medical service provision are well recognised and hence they have PARALLEL administrative organisation set-up.
I will break it down.
Just as the Nursing Unit have Director of Nursing Services DNS & Assistant Directors ADNSses, the Med Labs Scientists units have theirs, the Physiotherapists have theirs too et cetera.
Then the Drs have theirs too as CMAC & Dep CMAC.
Now, all the units need to come under one total authority which is the CMD (assisted by a powerful Director of Administration DOA who is more of a non-clinical but a high & qualified Clerical Officer ) - a post which has always been filled by a doctor since he's the one that is more coordinating in the process of health service delivery.
The problem of JOHESU now is that they want that overhead-administrative position to be open to all units & not Drs alone.

Other issues are actually secondary.
You are given to intellect.
Read up that their rejoinder or response ( I mean JOHESU ) at the 1st page & tell me if you see any substance there.
They are actually the one greedy, contentious & non-contented.

stine b: I am trying to fanthom if you are a medical officer or House officer maybe even a 2nd MB drop out. For a start,I want to introduce my self as a proud Medical Imaging Specialist A.K.A Radiographer I wish to inform you that as far as my practice of Radiography is concerned,We have trained Radiographers who report Tomograms(CT scan Images, MRI Images, Mamograms and Radiographs(Not picture as you call it). I have worked in Australia,UAE and Grenada before returning home to set up my private diagnostic centre where we run X-ray, Ultrasound,ECGand Laboratory Test. We didn't engage any Doctor in our practice because there are not needed. We have been precise and succesful with our test procedures without any complain from anywhere. It will suffice you to note that I take the X-ray exposure and report the Radiographs afterward with my name and Qualifications written and stamed there in. Same thing goes for general and specialised Ultrasound scan procedures(You can see that I have no need for a RADIOLOGIST,who after graduating from Medical school,decides to come and idle in my field of Radiography because of Lack of Job)
Furthermore, I employed a Medical Laboratory Scientist to oversee our Laboratory and he is very copetent in that line without the involvement of any socalled Pathologist. There is a pharmacy outfit beside us where we Reffer patients to buy their medications if need be, especially in Swab M/C/S etc.The good news is that patients get well after diagnosis and take prescribed medications from the pharmacist. We only refer a case that is worth Refferable to selected Hospitals that understand what Team work or division of labor means so that they can also do the needful. For your information Student Dr. Phantom,Nigerians are getting more exposed to know that you musnt go to the Hospital and see a Doctor to be well. 70% of our patients walk into our diagnostic outfit to give their complains.From our vast clinical knowledge based on experience and reading, we clerk them and carry out investigations where needed and where were see an issue we refer them to pharmacy for drugs or to a Hospital for care.
All the points you have been raising in this thread are only applicable in Government Health Institutions where you have your peers as Directors hence JOHESU petition and outcry to put an end to this anomaly.Government researched and constructively reasoned with JOHESU by accepting to implement our plea and a certain unrecognized Association in Nigeria Trade Unionism called NMA is striking against another mans career progression. All this anomalies in the health sector is what made me to reject an appointment from OAU Teaching Hospital Ife, after my Internship because I didn't want to be restrained from progressing in my career. I never regretted my decision to turn down the offer, because I have made so much money both abroad and in my private practice in Nigeria, A thing that I can only dream of probably after Retiring from the current Healthcare Institutions if I had taken their offer. Infact we need a change in this Rotten sector Instigated by a group of practitioners(NMA) that has little knowledge in Management.
In summary, I heard you said Doctors can do other professional duties. With all sense of seriousness I disagree with you. The day I catch any socalled Doctor Touching an X-ray,CT,Mammo,MRI or even an ultrasound machine,talkless of operating them, I'll so sue them using Decree No. 42 of Federation an act that empowers only Radiographers to run diagosis with those modalities.
Infact Dr. Phantom or whatever you call yourself, I openly challenge you on Clinicals let's see who knows it better.
Go to College of Medical Science University of Calabar and hear how student Radiographers beat Medical students in a quiz organised by the College provost for Anatomy courses (Neuro, Embryology,Gross,Histology etc)
Most of us chosed Radiography as First and 2nd Choice during our Jamb, because we wanted to be Radiographers(Eyes or Oracle of Medicine) Can you beat that? Cheers bro.

Please, I needed to quote this poster in full.
Yours indeed is a professional quack.
Oh!!!, now that you consult & prescribe medications, and the desperate sick people don't have complaints, it has given you impetus to boast that you and Drs are equals
Grenada & Australia my bottom!!!
Wait until any of your uninformed patient develops complication & lands in the hand of a qualified but hungry lawyer!

stine b: For your information, CT scan is not the most complex Imaging modality.Unless you mean that's the highest you have seen and admired .I'm pleased to inform you of other recent Imaging modalities such Magnetic Resonance Imaging, Positron Emission Tomography scans. I'm sure you haven't heard about them, yet you claim to know all that cocerns Healthcare as a Doctor. There is need for consultacy in Radiography, Pharmacy,Physiotherapy,Nursing and Medical Laboratory Scientist. I pity you guys. This is just the beginning of your end.

Would you climb down from that High horse and talk with a little sense.
SO how many of the so called government hospitals where you are clamoring for a Consultancy have a PET scanner, MRI as common as it is in your head...how many would you find in a Federal or state facility nationwide. What is the Consultancy in operating an equipment?
Its quite painful to hear someone talking about the beginning of the end of Doctors when there are still Radiologist even in the most advanced center worldwide.
The job of a Radiographer essentially is in operating those equipment and that's really a great job
Your initial well traveled attitude that you came here with dropping names of countries like used tissue papers have now changed from the initial 'I've been to UK, Grenada and UAE' and you're now bringing in NHS stuff like you expect Nigeria to be a prostitute taking cues from every health facility in the world.
The picture I'd attach here shows that in Uk...there is what is called a Diagnostic Radiographer who does preliminary reporting on some procedures. You've lied once here so I'm really all out for you. Which of the three countries you claimed to have worked taught you that you can read a radiological report on your own and I'll show you the job description there. UK has a well advanced healthcare system with highky complex radiological equipment. I'm sure the best you'll have in that your death facility is an outdated Ultrasound machine which qualifies you for a diagnostic centre. Most Residents know the places they do CT SCan and MRI and you can be bold to give usd the centre where you have you so called CT Scan machine.
CONSULTANCY in operating an USS machine.
Plus the average 500 level student can read a chest X ray for common chest and heart disease and he's not even a Doctor yet. Mtcheww
Attached is an excerpt from his link and I've taken the time to download this pdf file of the work there which is a 2013 refocus.

Someone was asking why all other health bodies formed the body JOHESU and excluded doctors. From the nature of his comment, I can tell he's a doctor too.

The answer is simple

People with a common goal, or a peculiar interest or a common problem usually come together to help themselves. Generally happens from the market woman to top politicians. The only reason why JOHESU will not include doctors is if the doctors don't have the same problem or if they are the problem. Now why would they include the doctors in JOHESU. That wouldn't make sense now, would it?

JOHESU and NMA should have a public debate and settle it. Let's see where public interest sways to

WHEN THE NURSE WANTS TO BE CALLED A 'DOCTOR'.


NASHVILLE — With pain in her right ear, Sue Cassidy went to a clinic. The doctor, wearing a white lab coat with a stethoscope in one pocket, introduced herself.



"Hi, i am Dr. Patti McCarver and i'm your nurse,” she said. And with that, Dr. McCarver stuck a scope in Ms. Cassidy’s ear, noticed a buildup of fluid and prescribed an allergy medicine.

It was something that will become increasingly routine for patients: a someone who is not a physician using the title of doctor.

Dr. McCarver calls herself a doctor because she returned to school to earn a doctorate last year, one of thousands of nurses doing the same recently. Doctorates are popping up all over the health professions, and the result is a quiet battle over not only the title “doctor,” but also the money, power and prestige that often comes with it.

As more nurses, pharmacists and physical therapists claim this honorific, physicians are fighting back. For nurses, getting doctorates can help them land a top administrative job at a hospital, improve their standing at a university and win them more respect from colleagues and patients. But so far, the new degrees have not brought higher fees from insurers for seeing patients or greater authority from states to prescribe medicines.

Nursing leaders say that their push to have more nurses earn doctorates has nothing to do with their fight of several decades in state legislatures to give nurses more autonomy, money and prescriptive power.

But many physicians are suspicious and say that once tens of thousands of nurses have doctorates, they will invariably seek more prescribing authority and more money. Otherwise, they ask, what is the point?

Dr. Roland Goertz, the board chairman of the American Academy of Family Physicians, says that physicians are worried that losing control over “doctor,” a word that has defined their profession for centuries, will be followed by the loss of control over the profession itself. He said that patients could be confused about the roles of various health professionals who all call themselves doctors.

“There is real concern that the use of the word ‘doctor’ will not be clear to patients,” he said.

So physicians and their allies are pushing legislative efforts to restrict who gets to use the title of doctor. A bill proposed in the New York State Senate would bar nurses from advertising themselves as doctors, no matter their degree. A law proposed in Congress would bar people from misrepresenting their education or license to practice. And laws already in effect in Arizona, Delaware and other states forbid nurses, pharmacists and others to use the title “doctor” unless they immediately identify their profession.

The deeper battle is over who gets to treat patients first. Pharmacists, physical therapists and nurses largely play secondary roles to physicians, since patients tend to go to them only after a prescription, a referral or instructions from a physician. By requiring doctorates of new entrants, leaders of the pharmacy and physical therapy professions hope their members will be able to treat patients directly and thereby get a larger share of money spent on patient care.

As demand for health care services has grown, physicians have stopped serving as the sole gatekeepers for their patients’ entry into the system. So physicians must increasingly share their patients — not only with one another but also with other professions. Teamwork is the new mantra of medicine, and nurse practitioners and physician assistants (sometimes known as midlevels or physician extenders) have become increasingly important care providers, particularly in rural areas.

But while all physician organizations support the idea of teamwork, not all physicians are willing to surrender the traditional understanding that they should be the ones to lead the team. Their training is so extensive, physicians argue, that they alone should diagnose illnesses. Nurses respond that they are perfectly capable of recognizing a vast majority of patient problems, and they have the studies to prove it. The battle over the title “doctor” is in many ways a proxy for this larger struggle.

For patients, the struggle has brought an increasing array of professionals trained to deal with their day-to-day health woes, but also at times confusion over who is responsible for their care and what sort of training they have.

Six to eight years of collegiate and graduate education generally earn pharmacists, physical therapists and nurses the right to call themselves “doctors,” compared with nearly twice that many years of training for most physicians. [/b]For decades, a bachelor’s degree was all that was required to become a pharmacist. That changed in 2004 when a doctorate replaced the bachelor’s degree as the minimum needed to practice. Physical therapists once needed only bachelor’s degrees, too, but the profession will require doctorates of all students by 2015 — the same year that nursing leaders intend to require doctorates of all those becoming nurse practitioners.

Dr. Kathleen Potempa, dean of the University of Michigan School of Nursing and the president of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, said that the profession’s new doctoral degree, called the doctor of nursing practice, was simply about remaining current. “Knowledge is exploding, and the doctor of nursing practice degree evolved out of a grass-roots recognition that we need to continuously improve our curriculum,” she said.

Last year, 153 nursing schools gave doctor of nursing practice degrees to 7,037 nurses, compared with four schools that gave the degrees to 170 nurses in 2004, when the association of nursing schools voted to embrace the new degree. In 2008, there were 375,794 nurses with master’s degrees and 28,369 with doctorates, according to a recent government survey.

Dr. Potempa said that nurses with master’s degrees were every bit as capable of treating patients as those with doctorates.

Nursing is filled with multiple specialties requiring varying levels of education, from a high school equivalency degree for nursing assistants to a master’s degree for nurse practitioners. Those wishing to become nurse anesthetists will soon be required to earn doctorates, but otherwise there are presently no practical or clinical differences between nurses who earn master’s degrees and those who get doctorates.

Nurse practitioners must generally graduate from college and take an additional 12 to 16 months of classes, which include months of treating patients for both mild and serious illnesses in clinics and hospitals under the watchful eyes of instructors. Those earning doctorates must generally take a further four semesters or 12 to 16 months of additional classes.

While instruction at each school varies, Dr. McCarver took classes in statistics, epidemiology and health care economics to earn her doctor of nursing practice degree. These additional classes, at Vanderbilt University, did not delve into how to treat specific illnesses, but taught Dr. McCarver the scientific and economic underpinnings of the care she was already providing and how they fit into the nation’s health care system. Studies have shown that nurses with master’s level training offer care in many primary care settings that is as good as and sometimes better than care given by physicians, who generally have far more extensive training. And patients often express higher satisfaction with care delivered by nurses, studies show. Physicians say they are better at recognizing rare problems, something studies have trouble measuring.

The benefits to patients of nurses receiving doctorates is unclear, since there is no evidence that nurses with doctoral degrees provide better care than those with master’s degrees do.

[b]Given the proven effectiveness of nurses with master’s degrees, even some nursing leaders have asked why nurses should be required to get doctorates.

“If it ain’t broke, why fix it?” asked Dr. Afaf I. Meleis, dean of the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing.

Some health care economists say the push for clinical doctorates across health professions could be misguided. They argue that anything requiring students to spend more time and money getting trained will invariably result in longer waits and increased costs for patients, because fewer students will meet the increased requirements and those who do will eventually demand higher compensation.

“Everyone’s talking about improving patients’ access to care, bending the cost curve and creating team-based care,” said Erin Fraher, an assistant professor of surgery and family medicine at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine. “Where’s the evidence that moving to doctorates in pharmacy, physical therapy and nursing achieves any of these?”

[b]Depending on their area of specialty, nurse practitioners earn a median salary of $86,000 to $90,000 annually, according to the Medical Group Management Association — a bit less than half of what primary care physicians earn. [/b]Nurses with doctorates generally earn the same salaries as those with master’s degrees since insurers pay the same rates to both. Physician groups fear that the real reason behind the creation of the doctor of nursing practice degree is to persuade more state legislatures to grant nurses the right to treat patients without supervision from doctors.

[b]Twenty-three states allow nurses to practice without a physician’s supervision or collaboration, and most are in the mountain West and northern New England, areas that have trouble attracting enough physicians. [/b]Nursing groups have lobbied for years to increase that number. “This degree is just another step toward independent practice,” said Louis J. Goodman, chief executive of the Texas Medical Association.

Not true, Dr. Potempa said — the new degree simply ensures that nurses stay competent. “It’s not like a group of us woke up one day to create a degree as a way to compete with another profession,” she said. “Nurses are very proud of the fact that they’re nurses, and if nurses had wanted to be doctors, they would have gone to medical school.”http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/health/policy/02docs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

When the Nurse Wants to Be Called ‘Doctor’

And this is where they're taking Nigeria to. Without any actual benefit for the patient.
Lets all leave the talk about improving ourselves and those BS.....its all about getting a cheap short cut to the money and the title. And YES, i said the title because the word MEDICAL DOCTOR the whole word over is still a distinguished name and profession and some crooks won't mind bringing it down to the same level they've brought their profession to

I saw this long post but was captivated to read to the very end.

This throws light on the problem in the health sector that led to a Nation wide strike by Doctors. Pls read!

D a v i d M a s h o r T u e ·

THE TROUBLE WITH THE NIGERIAN HEALTH SECTOR For a longtime now I have come across so many articles and reports in the national dailies and in online social med the rife in the health sector which centers mainly on the row between doctors and non-doctors working in the healthcare system. Most of these reports and articles, mostly lopsided, have one common denominator, presenting the Doctor as an enemy of the people and the manner of their submissions is such as to draw undue sympathy from the unsuspecting public. But for the neutral members of the society who have had cause to have sufficient contact with the hospital environment, I’m not talking of some quasi journalists, they need not be told, if there are, who the Angels and Demons are. This article is not aimed at indicting or exonerating any of the two combatant parties as both have had a fair share of the blame, and honestly, the deplorable state of our healthcare system is not as a result of the performance of the health workers, but it is a component of an overall failed system called Nigeria which the current government is still trying to salvage amongst other difficult challenges. Considering the lines along which the divide has been made, I shall delve into an inquest of some of the key issues at stake, mostly those that affect the general public, and this I will do by placing the Nigerian Doctor on one side to be reviewed alongside a few of the numerous “health professionals” working in the healthcare system with due consideration to the most important person in the system, the Patient. I shall concentrate mostly on the tertiary healthcare institutions where the bulk of the rivalry is most felt. The Patient and the Hospital: Let us begin from the beginning. A healthy person falls sick and needs to regain his health and function properly. He says to himself, “I don’t feel well enough, I need to see a Doctor. May be I should go to the hospital tomorrow”. He sets out of his house with this principal aim. On getting to the hospital, he first gets to the reception, obtains a card at the Out Patient Department and then proceeds to see a Doctor (usually a Medical Officer) if his condition is one that necessitates a Specialists attention, he is then Referred to another Doctor, the Specialist (Consultant) for further treatment. On getting to the point of referral, the Record staffs assist him in opening a folder containing case notes, and in the process of this, a Doctor (Consultant) is assigned to him. The entire processes of obtaining a card and folder have no direct effect on the patient’s condition but helps ensure proper documentation and recording within the hospital. He is then directed to the designated Specialist or Consultant Clinic where he is received by a Nurse who does further documentation and records his vital signs which may or may not be repeated by the Doctor. Then the patient enters the clinic to see the Doctor, his primary aim for coming to the hospital ab initio. The Patient, the Doctor and Other Health Workers: The Doctor begins by taking a complete history of the patient which includes his current complaints, previous health challenges, living condition, social habits, family history, drug history, financial capacity, religious and cultural beliefs, and then proceeds to do a complete physical examination of his entire body system, at the end of which the Doctor would have verified the patients complaints and identify any other problems unknown to the patient, before arriving at a Provisional Diagnosis. He then counsels the patient, draws up a treatment plan, which is to be strictly adhered to provided the patient is within the hospital environment, and automatically takes full responsibility for any problems encountered along the line. He finally schedules him for a follow-up visit to ascertain his response to treatment. This process of history taking creates a personal relationship between the Patient and the Doctor and this is where the confidence of a patient on the Healthcare system of a Nation is built; the Doctor-Patient Relationship. The treatment plan of the Patient, drawn by the Doctor, may or may not include; the investigations (or tests) both laboratory or radiological to be carried out, the drugs to be dispensed and the appropriate prescription, the additional care to be rendered outside the basic nursing care and the treatment orders to be followed, some of which he does himself (or via his subordinate Doctors) and others by the Nurses. There is no stereotyped outline of what must be done for every patient; investigations to be carried out, treatment to be administered or drugs to be prescribed lies solely at the discretion of the Patient and his Doctor. Apart from the Nurses, all other “Health Professionals” come into patient care when the Doctor’s plan involves them. Clearly, a patient has no business with the Radiographer if the Doctor’s plan does not involve radiography, neither does he have any business with the Pharmacist if the patient does not require any drugs, of course, not every patients require drugs. Therefore, it is safe to assert that if Patient Care is the sole interest of everybody in the Health sector, then the Doctor takes the Central stage in this service to Patients and must carry the Nurses along at every point in time, and together they look out for any other “Health Professional” that should be roped into patient care. Why then should the Doctor take the Central stage? Very simple. He has been trained thoroughly to do so. Invariably, the Doctor is naturally the undisputed leader of the Health team and only two classes of people can challenge this standing; the criminal minded ones pursing their selfish interests and the dim-wits incapable of any logical reasoning. On the Headship of the Hospital: Over time, the functional head of the tertiary hospital setting has been the office of the Chief Medical Director, CMD, and part of the Act establishing the hospitals specified that this position be held by a Medical Doctor. However, there has recently been a loud cry from other “Health Professionals” under the auspices of the Joint Health Workers Union (JOHESU) for the chance to also partake in the “enjoyment” of this office, as if to say it is a political office, a “National Cake” which should be shared equally to everyone in the scene, whereas, it is the most sensitive of all positions in the hospital setting, one with huge implications on the health of patients. The Medical Doctors on the other hand, insist that the office of the Chief Medical Director and the headship in general, of the Hospitals is their exclusive reserve. How true is this claim by the Doctors? Again, it is very simple. Healthcare is all about patient care, and in rendering care to the patient who is the main focus of everyone, the Doctor is the arrow head. He brings together the activities of all in the health care delivery system to bear fruit in the health of the patient. He has a broad-based and yet in-depth medical knowledge that enables him to function as a leader in patient management and take responsibility for the outcome. It is then indeed a funny ideology to expect the Doctor to maintain leadership of Patient Management and then cede the leadership of the Hospital Management to a Non-Doctor. Right thinking people would agree that whoever takes the blame should take the lead. Leadership is about responsibility, and Doctors embrace such responsibility mainly as it involves lives which they have sworn an oath to protect. Furthermore, JOHESU, a body comprising of other “health professionals”, support staffs and in fact all in the Hospital setting except Doctors, claim to be equal and allied to Medicine. But my question is, how is the clerical staff allied to Medicine? How can a support staff head the core members of the organization? Also, why should a “profession” that is “allied” to Medicine surmount Medicine? Can a Non-Lawyer become the Attorney General of the Federation? Why isn’t the office of the Vice-Chancellor made open to every staff in the University system since ASUU and NASUU both consist of “professionals”? How would ceding hospital leadership to JOHESU improve the health indices of our country? These are people that do not deal directly with patients, people that do not really understand the agony of patients which Doctors do. The saddest part is the extent they can go to press home their irrational demands. We have a documented occurrence of how they turned off power supply to the Intensive Care Unit during a JOHESU orchestrated strike action in a southeastern Teaching Hospital leading to death of patients on life support. This was an attempt to frustrate the Doctors’ effort to keep hospital services running while they were “striking”. How can people who have displayed this level of irresponsibility be allowed to head the Health sector? Again, God forbid! It is a common saying that Doctors are “proud”, and I insist, they have very just reasons to be, and when it comes to arrogance, the patients can tell who amongst Doctors and Nurses are more approachable. Doctors are a selected class of elites and comprise the best brains of the society. Yes, the entry requirements into the profession and the medical training ensure that only the bests emerge as Doctors. As such, the government has to understand that any arrangement that sees a Non-Doctor in a sensitive position to head Doctors in any Health related issue would be met with fierce resistance and the never ending tussle it will ensue will have detrimental effects on our nation’s healthcare delivery. In the interest of peace and decorum, the Federal Government have to dig in and ensure that the status quo is been maintained. The ear that will hear needs not be the size of a raffia palm. On conferment of Consultancy on other “Health Professionals”: A Consultant (Medical) is the title for a senior hospital-based physician or surgeon who has completed all of his/her specialist (Residency) training and has been placed on the specialist register (Fellow) in their chosen specialty. This level of Doctor joins the Civil service as a Consultant and automatically leads a team of Doctors comprising Residents, Medical Officers and House Officers who train under him. Currently, there has been an outcry by JOHESU to also be awarded Honorary Consultancy based on the fact that Doctors are been appointed as Consultants, why not they too. The concession of the government to this particular demand has led to the entire hospital going berserk in some centers. This was done against the warning of the Nigerian Medical Association that the introduction of such “alien” practices would be detrimental to the lives of patients and the results are showing. At the Nnamdi Azikiwe University Teaching Hospitals, it is been said that a “Consultant Pharmacist” invaded the wards with his team, cancelling patients prescriptions and also demanded that a Consultant Cardiologist remove a key drug in an inpatient prescription, on grounds that the drug has some known adverse effects. Another report have it that in Abuja University Teaching Hospital, the Ante-Natal Clinic was invaded by Nurses who decided to consult patients and make prescriptions, of which the Doctors left the clinic and the Patients were confused. Patients who sought to see their Doctors were told that there was a “Consultant Nurse” who does whatever a Consultant does. Also, in University College Hospital, Ibadan, stories had it that a Consultant Plastic Surgeon was barred from reviewing the surgical wound he created post-operatively because a “Consultant Nurse” had reviewed the wound earlier and was satisfied with her findings. Let us address one of these occurrences. It is grave ignorance for a Pharmacist to tamper with a drug prescription simply because he has looked through his drug formulary and have identified a known adverse effect of the drug when he/she has no knowledge of the processes involved in the making of diagnosis and prescriptions. Patient management is highly individualized. To make a prescription, the Doctors put many things into consideration viz; patient’s history and examination, financial cost of the drug, benefits against the risk of using the drug, other drugs to be administered etc. Sometimes the side effect of a drug is the desired effect needed in one patient but would remain a serious adverse effect in another patient. But no, the Pharmacist didn’t think in that line before cancelling prescriptions. I am not saying every doctor’s prescription is infallible. No. But if a pharmacist wishes to express concern over a patient’s prescription, he should discuss with the Doctor to sort out their concerns.

This whole consultancy for non-doctors arose as a result of their quest to have better remuneration. I am not opposed to better remuneration for other health workers, but looking for cheap means to it at the expense of the lives of patients is grossly unacceptable. Why would you want to be a Specialist (Consultant) when you have no specialty, or you have a specialty in an area whose service is not needed? Even if a non-doctor must be a consultant that does not automatically make him/her a Doctor. We all know how to become a Doctor and age is no barrier. If non-doctors must immutably be made consultants, their duties and jurisdictions must be clearly spelt out and understood by all involved. A Consultant Nurse should be confined to Nursing Practice and she will be expected to enhance it, not to invade Medical Practice. She must ensure that the management plan of a Doctor is properly carried out, even if he is a House Officer. Unfortunately, the idea of non-doctor consultant emanates from the desire of these other “health Professionals” for position and better pay than the desire to meet any specific needs. For instance, a ward Nurse that does her duties properly becomes a Consultant, what extra services and improvement does that bring to nursing care? The fact that there exist non-doctor consultants in a few foreign countries does not explain why the government should channel huge sums of money into the payment of honorarium to consultants that add nothing to the existing system but chaos. The NMA have identified these unhealthy health policies and should do all it can to prevent it from killing Nigerians. On relativity of Wages: Another very important object of discord is the demand by JOHESU for a unified salary scheme for everyone in the health sector and that will see a close approximation of the eventual earnings of all in the sector. What else can be sillier? Need I remind us that in every organization there is usually an established strata. Even in heaven, there are Angels and Arch angels, and the angels are content with their positions and would not want to usurp the duties of the Arch angels either. People cannot obtain different qualifications, different expertise, subserve different needs and end up earning similar pay. No. That cannot happen. Why would a non-specialist insist on being paid specialists allowance? Why would a Non-doctor terrorize the government because he wants to be paid like Doctors? Where in the world is that obtainable? Relativity is sacrosanct and must be reflected both on the basic salaries and all allowances. Granted. Doctors are few. Very very few. The World Health Organisiation recommends that a Doctor should consult not more than seven patients in a clinic session and should pay maximum attention to their needs, but our environment see us in a situation where a Doctor consults over 40 patients in one clinic session, yet, he is underpaid compared to his colleagues even in nearby Ghana. There are less than 30,000 Doctors currently practicing in Nigeria subserving over 170 million Nigerians, and there is a dire need for more, but that will not push the Medical schools to take in everybody and churn out unqualified people as Doctors, neither will the Nigerian Doctor allow a Non-Doctor to tamper with the lives of patients. Doctors swore an oath to preserve lives and the NMA must see to it that the lives of Nigerians are safeguarded. If the Hippocratic Oath is to be taken serious, then the NMA must win this battle. More often than not, we are clear on the knowledge that it is injustice to treat equal people unequally, but it fails to come to our minds that, it is graver injustice to treat unequal people equally. This is not pride, it is a statement of fact. Doctors and Non-doctors in the Health sector are not equal and they cannot be treated as equal. There is a reason why some students work harder than others to become Doctors. Some sat for JAMB several times to achieve that, although many fail to do so and even some do fail out of medical school and end up as “other Health Professionals”. To eventually anticipate to be rewarded equally with those who triumphed where you failed is simply madness. The government must see to it that relativity is maintained. For if a Nurse or Pharmacist consults patient, not regarding quality of the consult, earns equally with a Doctor and even get a chance to head the Doctor, why then would one need to work harder to become a Doctor when he can easily become a Pharmacist? Tampering with relativity is a conscious attempt at breeding mediocrity, again at the expense of lives. If the Nurses and Pharmacists accept to be paid equally with the Lab “Scientist” and Janitors, it’s their own cup of tea, but paying Doctors and Non-doctors equally? God forbid! On the Physiotherapists’ demand to make first contact with Patients: According to Prof. K. E. Obidike, there are three reasons why patients go to see Doctors. Firstly, is to ascertain the causes of their complaints and resolve them. Secondly, is to identify any other health problems unknown to the patient, and again, resolve them timely, and finally, to have a baseline documentation of the patient as a reference for subsequent health issues. The second reason especially, answers the question as to why a Physiotherapist cannot make first contact with patients. Medicine is holistic, and the initial assessment of a patient takes the entire body system into account not just the presenting complaints. Therefore, Physiotherapists should remain Physiotherapists and should come into action when consulted. Simple. On adoption of Foreign Healthcare Structure: The fundamental idea behind the establishment of Tertiary Healthcare centers (Teaching Hospitals) in Nigeria was primarily for training of Medical Practitioners, Research, and provision of specialized healthcare at very affordable rate. It is not a business venture, and if this aims and objectives are to be met, then the hospital must be made to operate under the very Act that established it. Comparing our Healthcare practices with that of foreign nations without a review of the aim and objectives viz-a-viz that of our country is practically insane. Granted, a few hospitals in Canada are headed by Non-Doctors, and there are few Non-Doctor Consultants with well-defined jurisdictions in a few foreign countries, but that does not in any way directly improve their health indices. After all, high quality health care is still not affordable for a large proportion of Americans despite their very potent health insurance system. Our very first interest should be to assist the government, which some members of the health sector have chosen to distract, to ensure there is affordable healthcare services to all its citizenry, seek ways of improving the training of the medical personnel and carry out Research programs that will elevate the quality of healthcare delivery in our own nation. Yes. We can go abroad and observe what obtains from there, but instead of disrupting order in the already existing system, by trying to blindly implement it over here, we can see how best to fit a few of them into our system and get the best out of it. The Government should concentrate on policies that will better the lives of the larger population of Nigerians, not those that pacify some disgruntled group of individuals fighting for position and their own other personal interests. There are many other issues that do not only need Government attention, but also its speedy response. Some of these areas include: the appointment of Directors in the hospitals which distorts the chain of command in the hospitals, induces anarchy and expose patients to conflicting treatment and management directives; the passage of the National Health Bill, and extension of Universal Health Coverage to cover 100% Nigerians and not 30% as currently prescribed by the National Health Insurance Scheme; the appointment of the office of the Surgeon General of the Federation alongside many other pressing needs. These are health issues of paramount importance and the Government cannot afford to be lackadaisical about them. No. Not this time. My Recommendations: First of all, JOHESU is an amorphous body comprising of different entities with varying agitations, concerns, qualifications, expertise, and eligibility status and should not be confronted in that front by the government. Our government has to recognize the various constituents independently and verify their individual complaints as some parts of it have no moral standee to withdraw its services because of the unmet demands of another. For instance, The Medical and Health Workers Union (MHWU) comprising of Clerks, Messengers, Record Officers, Admin staffs, Janitors, Engineers, Security etc., an association of different people with absolutely no training in any Health related courses should not dare to aspire for headship positions in the hospital let alone been prevented from doing so. We do not have to give reasons why they should not. Therefore, the five different associations and unions under JOHESU should be made to make their specific submissions independent of one another for clarity. Secondly, the Nigerian Labour Congress and Trade Union Congress should look beyond Unionism and focus on the ultimate goal of everybody in the health sector which is adequate Health care for the Nation. They should relinquish their parochial stand in the dispute between JOHESU and NMA, and as well desist from all forms of hooliganism and attempt to bully the Government and NMA on this matter. Finally, the Government should resist all attempts to coerce it into yielding to the demands of one party in the dispute when the matter is still in court. There should be absolute regard for the Rule of Law. And all previous “concessions” should be stalled, and pending till a decisive ruling by the court. We can go on and on to address so many other issues in the health sector that require attention but I have decided to throw light at just some parts of it before the Doctors under the auspices of the Nigerian Medical Association, an association of all certified Medical Doctors practicing in Nigeria down their tools as proposed come July 1st, 2014. Before the health of the nation would be thrown into the hands of Non-Doctors in the Health sector that usually prefer the exclusive services of Doctors when they and their loved ones take ill. Before the general public begin to lash out on Doctors and blame them for lives lost as a result of the forthcoming massive industrial action. The onus lie on the general public to call out on the Government to resolve these life threatening issues before the Doctors take to this hurtful last resort of theirs. God bless Nigeria. By, Basil, C. B. – M.B.B.S (Nigeria), Department of Clinical Chemistry and Metabolic Medicine, Benue State University Teaching Hospital.

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I should be askinng you that question. Apparently you know only about CT scan hence your refferennce to it as the most complex in Radiography Practice, which I disputed and Introduced MRI. and PET scans to you.Thank God for me and google that has added knowledge of MRI and PET scan to your brain. Sink this Ito your memory "Positron Emitron Tomography scan is done by Radiographers"

phantomm:

so MRI and PET are new modalities . radiographers also carry out PET studies abi??

people who know nothing trying to shove half backed knowledge down out throats.

Some nairalanders keep making pointless and lame comments on medical disciplines where they are least knowledgeable ,its very mortifying guys .l m a medical laboratory scientist and i m proud of my profession.
The medical laboratory science council of Nigeria (MLSCN) empowered by the 2003 ACT NO.11 enacted by the NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA Is the regulatory body guarding the practices and professionalism of medical laboratory scientists in Nigeria
In a very simple but precise manner these are the core duties of a medical laboratory scientist :
1. To scientifically diagnose diseases through proper collection ,examination and rigorous analysis of clinical specimens such as whole blood ,serum,plasma,urine,stomach washings,faecal samples,sputum ,serous fluids,nail scrappings,skin snips,semen,saliva washings,skin scrappings,post surgical specimens ,swabs of all body organ and tissues,pus ,ulcer materials etc through numerous clinical procedures ,assays and tests of the different sub -departments that make up medical laboratory science namely; Hematology,chemical pathology,advanced molecular pathology,microbiology and Histopathology
2. To carry out medical and empirical researches with the sole aim of improving patient healthcare,offer scientific solutiions to mysterious clinical cases and discover new diagnostic techniques to tackle re emerging infectious diseases and other diseases .we are also involved in forensic serology (very imperative in paternity disputes and criminal investigations) ,water quality analysis ,quality control and clinical instrumentation .
There are countless procedures of these sub- departments that are too cumbersome to mention here infact Medical laboratory science is a dynamic profession that is designed to provide a broad based fundamental scientific knowledge that evolve steadily in other to execute execellently its main role of disease diagnosis in patient healthcare ,patient care without diagnosis is guesswork and that one my hand no dey o !
I think i ve tried a bit to educate nairalanders here henceforth lets argue reasonably and intellectually.

stine b: I should be askinng you that question. Apparently you know only about CT scan hence your refferennce to it as the most complex in Radiography Practice, which I disputed and Introduced MRI. and PET scans to you.Thank God for me and google that has added knowledge of MRI and PET scan to your brain. Sink this Ito your memory "Positron Emitron Tomography scan is done by Radiographers"

While you haven't addressed any point I raised about how many MRI centers are in your city(wherever that is).........you can at least count how many places they do PET scan IN NIGERIA when it is just a complimentary test to even the MRI. I'm so certain you haven't seen one and certain you haven't stepped out of the shores of this country on anything academic.
A well traveled man doesn't reason the way you do.....it belies a small town inferiority complex ed individual. Imagine someone throwing the word PET scan around as if its a big word when Med Students stopped talking about it when they get to 500L.
In the real world of practice in Nigeria....few diagnoses would go beyond CT / MRI and the reason isn't for lack of equipment but the state of the country. I can upload 10 images of a CT scan here that I can be absolutely certain you would not see any pathology there even if they're staring you in the .
NB - Doctors are currently on strike so i really have a lot of time to puncture your lies here so that I can well put you in your place

armadeo:


to the best of my knowledge a prescription is given to the patient who then goes to the pharmacy to buy the drug. The dr signs the prescription. the pharmacist however can be uncomfortable with the dosage of the medication not the medication in it self and is duty bound to seek clarification if he feels so. without recourse to insults or know it all from both parties. (dr/pharm)

at bolded why do you want to be called a CONSULTANT for what you already are ( hospital based IMO), what extras are you as a pharmacist planning to do concerning patient care that deserves an upgrade to this title.

ps any links to the post graduate college of pharmacy for my perusal would be appreciated. we learn everyday!

the person u quoted on prescription is right.
The Pharmacists are the drug experts, they know too well than any professional on drugs, they prescribe indirectly to the patients right from the industry and thus, will be needed to make meaniningful adjustment when Physicians prescribe.

rolex29: Some nairalanders keep making pointless and lame comments on medical disciplines where they are least knowledgeable ,its very mortifying guys .l m a medical laboratory scientist and i m proud of my profession.
The medical laboratory science council of Nigeria (MLSCN) empowered by the 2003 ACT NO.11 enacted by the NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA Is the regulatory body guarding the practices and professionalism of medical laboratory scientists in Nigeria
In a very simple but precise manner these are the core duties of a medical laboratory scientist :
1. To scientifically diagnose diseases through proper collection ,examination and rigorous analysis of clinical specimens such as whole blood ,serum,plasma,urine,stomach washings,faecal samples,sputum ,serous fluids,nail scrappings,skin snips,semen,saliva washings,skin scrappings,post surgical specimens ,swabs of all body organ and tissues,pus ,ulcer materials etc through numerous clinical procedures ,assays and tests of the different sub -departments that make up medical laboratory science namely; Hematology,chemical pathology,advanced molecular pathology,microbiology and Histopathology
2. To carry out medical and empirical researches with the sole aim of improving patient healthcare,offer scientific solutiions to mysterious clinical cases and discover new diagnostic techniques to tackle re emerging infectious diseases and other diseases .we are also involved in forensic serology (very imperative in paternity disputes and criminal investigations) ,water quality analysis ,quality control and clinical instrumentation .
There are countless procedures of these sub- departments that are too cumbersome to mention here infact Medical laboratory science is a dynamic profession that is designed to provide a broad based fundamental scientific knowledge that evolve steadily in other to execute execellently its main role of disease diagnosis in patient healthcare ,patient care without diagnosis is guesswork and that one my hand no dey o !
I think i ve tried a bit to educate nairalanders here henceforth lets argue reasonably and intellectually.

Just answer this simple question? Is Medical Lab Science a Core Medical Course or an Allied Health Course? You can use google before you answer the question.
The core duties of the security man in a Hospital will also include something about protecting the interest of patients and for the best outcome of patients bla bla bla......Aside Medicine, Nursing and Pharmacy...every other course is Allied Health and should stay as that. STOP DREAMING and read the guide for the Laboratory Technicians too....I'm sure it can't be less soothing to the ears

stine b: I should be askinng you that question. Apparently you know only about CT scan hence your refferennce to it as the most complex in Radiography Practice, which I disputed and Introduced MRI. and PET scans to you.Thank God for me and google that has added knowledge of MRI and PET scan to your brain. Sink this Ito your memory "Positron Emitron Tomography scan is done by Radiographers"

....... quackery everywhere! o Lord. oga what training do our diagnostic radiographers have to carry out PET scans? I hope you know its extra training? did I ever mention ct and MRI as the latest modalities in town?? please don't overstate your importance.stick to what you can do.as far as nuclear medicine goes your job description is the same - imaging!
you are nothing special.let's leave PET and pet-ct alone for a minute.even the common MRI machine many of you can't operate.many of you can't acquire flow sensitive images, DWI or PWIs yet you all feel like alpha and omega. its a pity really.

PharmGreg:
the person u quoted on prescription is right.
The Pharmacists are the drug experts, they know too well than any professional on drugs, they prescribe indirectly to the patients right from the industry and thus, will be needed to make meaniningful adjustment when Physicians prescribe.

Prescribe indirectly. Listen to yourself. I asked a simple question by law apart from over the counter drugs do you have the power to write a prescription and give to a patient. Its a yes it no question no lectures needed.

What meaningful adjustments do you want to make in a drs prescription. I can understand dosage discrepancies it has happened to me before. Apart from that what again?


PS the pharmacist doesnt even see the patient so how would you know what parameters the dr used to arrive at that prescription for you to make valuable adjustments

infolekan:

Just answer this simple question? Is Medical Lab Science a Core Medical Course or an Allied Health Course? You can use google before you answer the question.
The core duties of the security man in a Hospital will also include something about protecting the interest of patients and for the best outcome of patients bla bla bla......Aside Medicine, Nursing and Pharmacy...every other course is Allied Health and should stay as that. STOP DREAMING and read the guide for the Laboratory Technicians too....I'm sure it can't be less soothing to the ears

The poster you responded to has to be the funniest guy on this thread. Just look at his writeup. U can tell the students when you read what they type.

phantom: ....... quackery everywhere! o Lord. oga what training do our diagnostic radiographers have to carry out PET scans? I hope you know its extra training? did I ever mention ct and MRI as the latest modalities in town?? please don't overstate your importance.stick to what you can do.as far as nuclear medicine goes your job description is the same - imaging!
you are nothing special.let's leave PET and pet-ct alone for a minute.even the common MRI machine many of you can't operate.many of you can't acquire flow sensitive images, DWI or PWIs yet you all feel like alpha and omega. its a pity really.

This group is the most annoying of all. Medical imaging specialist. Chaii! We son see for naija.

PharmGreg:
the person u quoted on prescription is right.
The Pharmacists are the drug experts, they know too well than any professional on drugs, they prescribe indirectly to the patients right from the industry and thus, will be needed to make meaniningful adjustment when Physicians prescribe.

But its so difficult to make an adjustment to a prescription when you're not even privy to the diagnosis.
Antibiotics therapy vary from Community acquired Pneumonia to Bacteria Meningitis and while I personally don't see anything wrong in a Pharmacist confirming to check if what he saw is what is prescribed if he sees a funny dose ( they do that well where i am and it is usually with the best intentions as nobody is infallible)and God knows how many lives that could be lost will be saved if they do that more often, changing a Physicians prescription is something else and quite illegal if you ask me.
Let's not be so hasty to bring in foreign stuffs unless you are planning to bring in the whole package...in most of those countries you are looking at, implementing the whole healthcare package means that Doctors live and rule like Kings

humnsikan: This is getting too much. These
doctors have turned our hospitals
into death traps by their refusal to
humble themselves and recognize
and appreciate the expertise of
other healthcare professionals and the roles they play in healthcare delivery. One of their grouses, I've learnt, is about the recent go ahead the FG and National Assembly have given, which allows Pharmacists, Nurses, Physiotherapists, Medical Laboratory Scientists, and Radiographers who have reached a certain professional level in their respective fields to be appointed consultants in those fields.
This is so selfish of the doctors and
born out of envy. The doctors cannot bring themselves to see someone else being called Consultant. This is similar to professors of Engineering
proceeding on Strike because a
Senior Lecturer of Law is to be
appointed as professor of Law, NOT ENGINEERING. Imagine the
disconnect! Doctors should put aside this arrogance of theirs and emulate their peers in civilized climes who see healthcare delivery as teamwork,
not a one-man show to the
detriment of the patient. Without
proper care by way of nursing,
perform all the surgery you can conceive of, the patient will still die. Need I say that medicine is like a container and drugs the content? Pour out the
content and the container is useless! Perform all the surgery and reach every diagnoses, but withhold the drugs or administer them inappropriately, and the patient will still die or be permanently handicapped. No wonder we have so many drug related deaths (courtesy doctors who refuse to see and appreciate the importance of other healthcare professionals). In fact, in some states in the US, the doctor is not allowed to unanimously write prescriptions; either a clinical pharmacist or clinical pharmacologist must be there to guide the physician. This guys use complex pharmacokinetic equations to predict blood levels of potentially toxic drugs; thereby, avoiding medication-related problems and ensuring safety and efficacy, for the overall good of the patient. This is a sane society where human lives a placed above narrow ambitions and envy.
Need I also say that for confirmatory diagnosis to be made, Laboratory or Radiographic results are needed, which falls into the jurisdiction of Med. Lab. Scientists and Radiographers. Many deaths would have been avoided if some of this doctors ever bothered to confirm their preliminary or tentative diagnosis by ordering for laboratory tests. Yet you see them covering up
these avoidable deaths with medical jargons. Some of these doctors are very corrupt, but it is we the masses that suffer at the end of the day.
Doctors are truly a blessing to
humanity, but, like everything in
Nigeria, it is being taken over by
some charlatans. No one forced
anyone to study any course,
including medicine; so they should
not bother us with all these
shenanigans of theirs. In fact, they
are currently among the highest
earning government workers.

listen guy, its better u don't coment much on wat u don't know about. Those other health workers cannever become consultants cos they don't have d necessary education for dat. if they wanna become consultants, den dey shuld go to medical skool and see aw though it is. Am sure u will nt lay urself down for a consultant Nurse or lab technician to perform surgery on you!!!