jpphilips:

If they are not physicians, why are they aspiring to eat the physicians pie?
If they are not physicians, why will they want the physicians title?
If they can only dispense drugs, by all means stick to your B.pharm and D.pharm respectively and trust me, NMA wont complain.
OR
Do you want Nigerian tax payers to pay you a consultant's fee just for dispensing drugs? haba! what else is theft?

Samgreguc:
av adviced u to go make a research on the world consult before inorder to show me where the meaning states that it is Physicia-only but, u seem adamat to dat.
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After your research, we can talk.
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Clinical Pharmacy is more than despensing but, we dont seem wanting to adopt it and thats one reason why we are where we are.
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Until, we cherish our Pharmacist as supposed and allow them play their role, we will never get good health care.

jpphilips:

If they are not physicians, why are they aspiring to eat the physicians pie?
If they are not physicians, why will they want the physicians title?
If they can only dispense drugs, by all means stick to your B.pharm and D.pharm respectively and trust me, NMA wont complain.
OR
Do you want Nigerian tax payers to pay you a consultant's fee just for dispensing drugs? haba! what else is theft?

jpphilips:

Point of correction, I am not one of you, I just went through the demands of the NMA and realized a few that are legitimate from a patient's perspective, reason I opened the thread, that does not in anyway undermine the other demands of NMA, I just considered them inconsequential for the sake of the thread.
Haven said that, I was expecting that asking for consultancy would have been the last on the list of events, IMHO, it is putting the cart before the horse.

Now, if JOHESU members really want to advance their careers, I don't see why the title "consultant" should stop them, if it takes 33courses and 6yrs (an example) for a doctor to earn that title, I don't expect anything less from the other allied medicals else, it will be very unfair to the doctors at the same time, nature like we know will follow the path of least resistance.

Answer me honestly, have you seen the curriculum drafted by JOHESU before fighting for the "consultant" title? I was expecting that if this is about career advancement, JOHESU president or whatever they have, should be able to sit with the NMA chairman probably with the minister of health to discuss the blue print and the curriculum before talking about titles, for sake of confusion, they may be given a different title but retain the benefits.

There must be order in our health care delivery, I emphasized so much on the "owning the patient" part because I know that is where the bulk of the responsibility lies, now JOHESU has absolutely nothing in the works to assume that responsibility, is it fair to the Doctors who may likely find himself taking the fall on a case where a consultant nurse has messed up since the consultant nurse is absolved from having the final say on a patient?

See through the bricks, this is about money and position nothing more, I don't have any problems with both, all I desire is where every penny is earned, If a nurse wants to advance her learning and she goes so far where she cannot own a patient, what is the Nigerian tax payers paying her for? or don't you want us to get value for our money?

Let us look at the University for example though not quintessential to the subject of discourse, Professorship is conferred on all depts, but before you get one, there is a guideline, there is a path, once you meet those requirements, you can easily become one, that is why a professor of yoruba studies can stand shoulder to shoulder with prof. of chemical Engineering even though they set out on different career path.

Let me ask you honestly, have you seen the guidelines JOHESU wants to use to become consultants? at least we know how doctors get there, how do they wish to be there? do you want a situation where a radiographer goes to India to learn how to switch off an X ray machine and comes back to claim consultant and we start paying? it doesn't make sense, it will be anarchy in the end, most medical students in sophomore classes knowing there is a way out, will pull out and switch to allied medical courses, give Nigeria just 10yrs and we wont have a single doctor again, It has happened before and we don't want it to repeat again, we have learnt from our Saudi experience.

If JOHESU wish to become consultants by all means they should give Nigerians a workable guideline that will enable them to have the same capacity as the Doctors in terms of patient's care, anything short of that is wasting tax payers


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joker5180:



I didn't see the guidelines but I believe thats for the regulatory bodies.

Oduduwaboy:
There is no guideline anywhere . Its all about ' i have spent 10 years on this job ' i should be made a consultant , beside ' i now have a M.sc. in Nursing administration ' from ' national open university .... so make me a consultant and subsequently ...i should also be made the Chief Medical Director etc . lol.

Samgreguc:
lol. . . The Pharmacist play a very very vital role indeed.

sisinaijayeye0: .

Why are you shying away from the fact that pharmacists make this chalk drug? And we doctors do not know that it is fake when we administer it, you people are the killers. That's all.

Oduduwaboy:
There is no guideline anywhere . Its all about ' i have spent 10 years on this job ' i should be made a consultant , beside ' i now have a M.sc. in Nursing administration ' from ' national open university .... so make me a consultant and subsequently ...i should also be made the Chief Medical Director etc . lol.

sisinaijayeye0: .

Why are you shying away from the fact that pharmacists make this chalk drug? And we doctors do not know that it is fake when we administer it, you people are killers. That's all.

allycat:

There is no discharge in a patient with Otitis Media with Effusion, so what are you swabbing and doing an M/C/S on. The condition most non doctors know of is Suppurative Otitis media, this is when a patient has a discharge and even then an MCS is not one of the diagnostic criteri. But I really didnt expect you to know that. What I wanted to point out to you is there are so many conditions that do not need any laboratory tests to make a diagnosis at all. And many others that are diagnosed clinically and tests just used to confirm the diagnosis or to guide treatment. No one says investigations are not important but a doctor must first make a clinical diagnosis so he even knows what test are necessary.

milychocs:



For a period of about six months last year at a teaching hospital in the East....all serum electrolytes results for patients were reading hyperkalaemia...high potassium .....then at a point low levels were reported consistently for months...

Do you know the catastrophe that would have resulted if doctors didnt question these results?....we would be looking at a patient and the result would not be in keeping with the clinical manifestations....heart, kidney and other systemic problems would have been rampant.

For me, the greatest danger to the patient in and out of the medical setting is the laboratory JOHESITE
They did not even notice the trend...found nothing wrong with the electrolyte results....for months!
Truly horrible

Then if I had a 100 naira for every time a patient comes from a "doctor" in a private lab...with a wrong diagnosis of typhoid fever, and the attendant antibiotic abuse....I would be veeerry rich...true story
SMH

This thread is meant for the general populace and not medical doctors and other health personnel, so I will
I just remembered that potassium horror and had to share it
(Shudders again)

prettyprettywow: lol. so much bitterness. pele

YourHealthlabs:
Mr wardman, i'm not arguing with just as you can't argue with me on lab issues as you all goofed when i asked you all a simple lab question about wet mount and catalase-negatives when some of claimed you know everything a Scientist know.
" Traditionally,
laboratory tests have rarely been
used in the workup and diagnosis
of otitis media with effusion" ----->
www.medicinenet.com/script/main/mobileart.asp?articlekey=2013
The word 'rarely' is does not mean a total rule out.

Samgreguc:
yea, u dont need to desend cos, u aint above the level of a Pharmacist.

Samgreguc:
yea. . . Making most ur diagnosis useless.
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So, is everyone important?
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Go make the drugs yourself since u can do everythg.

lexib:

this one is still battling with inferiority complex... smh

Morotov1: Who says jaundice is uncommon in obstetrics cholestasis and that it occurs only after 25 weeks of gestation,it can occur anytime during pregnancy. Please update your textbooks. And even if your patient is either male or female, you will have a list of differential diagnosis that you have to rule out.
Not all jaundice with itching is post hepatic. WHAT ABOUT BRIC- benign recurrent intrahepatic cholestasis.

Mastershiffu: this right here is what makes the difference between a doctor's training and yours. You see whereas you are thought to think in concrete terms as regards the pathologic basis of diseases due perhaps to the technical nature of your field, the doctors horizon is broadened by a rigorous training that has stood the test of time. Where you for instance are thinking of a particular disease because your textbooks say so,the doctors mind is trained to entertain variables which will be confounding to you. Variables such as epidemiology of that particular disease. You see it is easy to attempt to bamboozle,or should i say,hoodwink, the unsuspecting public with medical jargon but a closer look at your diagnosis of OBSTETRIC CHOLESTASIS will show that it usually does not occur with jaundice and even though it is the commonest liver-related dx of pregnancy occurs in only 1% of pregnant women which by my training makes it a very low differential diagnosis. I could go on and on but i hope i have attempted to make it clear to you that by the very[color=#006600][/color] nature of our training I am the natural leader of the health team and you my dear friend are what you are. 8

Morotov1: You haven't made a point that has not been made by your defendant.
What we are ascertaining here is .......there are other intra hepatic conditions that occurs with jaundice and pruritus. Irrespective of the epidemiology, it might be rare but the fact remains that it can also be diagnosed with thorough examinations not half baked.... that is not based only on clinical findings.

sisinaijayeye0:

Our diagnosis are always spot on we are thought from school how signs and symptoms lead to our diagnosis from taking history we already have an idea of what's wrong, what we then get is differentials. We then confirm the most likely diagnosis with tests by sending to the lab (where people should know their jobs) they send the results back and from that we interpret the results, if you focused on what they taught you in school and stop hating other people's profession you won't sound like a miserable old hag as you are making yourself out to be. Don't quote me again enough of this incessant rubbish you really haven't given me a valid point all day so kindly F. The F off! We can't all be the same. We can't all do the same job everybody is different that's what makes us unique. If everybody did the same job the world would be a sad place. I place importance in people from carpenters to plumbers to cleaners to electricians people frown on them because their job aren't important but without this people you will be surprised at how stuck you will be. Who will fix your fan? Who will clear your poop? My point grow a little self esteem. Pharmacist are as important as doctors, cleaners are important. Nurses are the most vital people in the hospital, and lab attendants? Are next to the most needed people it is their results that diagnoses for the whole health team. Quit! Hating!!!!!!! Focus on the job God gave u.

Mastershiffu:
And if a doctor recommended a lab test for every possible differential?how affordable would that be for the patient? Which brings me back to my point and that which i think phantom was trying to make, viz: more than 85% of the time, the fact that i recommend xyz investigations for a patient, i have already,by virtue of my training and ability to factor in those confounding variables i mentioned earlier, narrowed down my diagnosis to a working one and a few differentials and require the lab to confirm.

jideolubiyi: Judging from the doctors' contributions, it appears they feel threatened by other health professionals attaining consultant status in their different professions. Why exactly is that?
1) How would that endanger patient care? (verifiable facts, no "em-em-em, just doing feel good about it all!"
2) How would it make medical doctors less medical doctors? (facts, pls.)
3) Isn't there a chance, that such changes would ultimately benefit the patients?
4) If medical doctors specializing in different areas of medicine actually improves patient care, is there any ground to insist that similar specialization by other suitably trained health professionals would impair patient management?

Abi, won't a patient with diabetes, or hypertension receive better care when attended to by medical doctors, nurses, pharmacists (...etc) who have received further training that qualifies then as specialists in diabetes or hypertension, respectively?
Lastly, if specialist medical doctors can be appropriately referenced and remunerated as consultants, why should other health care professionals not be so treated when they possess the required qualifications?

Personally, I think it should be criminal for health care professionals to go on strike. But most of our doctors are so used to seeing human suffering and death that they have become incapable of valuing human life. But then, that is my own opinion and I think many Nigerians think the same way.

jideolubiyi: Judging from the doctors' contributions, it appears they feel threatened by other health professionals attaining consultant status in their different professions. Why exactly is that?
1) How would that endanger patient care? (verifiable facts, no "em-em-em, just doing feel good about it all!"
2) How would it make medical doctors less medical doctors? (facts, pls.)
3) Isn't there a chance, that such changes would ultimately benefit the patients?
4) If medical doctors specializing in different areas of medicine actually improves patient care, is there any ground to insist that similar specialization by other suitably trained health professionals would impair patient management?

Abi, won't a patient with diabetes, or hypertension receive better care when attended to by medical doctors, nurses, pharmacists (...etc) who have received further training that qualifies then as specialists in diabetes or hypertension, respectively?
Lastly, if specialist medical doctors can be appropriately referenced and remunerated as consultants, why should other health care professionals not be so treated when they possess the required qualifications?

Personally, I think it should be criminal for health care professionals to go on strike. But most of our doctors are so used to seeing human suffering and death that they have become incapable of valuing human life. But then, that is my own opinion and I think many Nigerians think the same way.

5minsmadness:
This your post smacks of ignorance and naivety. Read between the lines. Its obvious the other folks ganging against the doctors are doing it for political and selfish reasons.

All these years are you saying doctors have been preventing them from furthering their education? I think the main issue here is that they want to answer the post of 'consultant' , a position strictly reserved for the medical doctor and which position reflects an authority in charge of the patient
These consultants are the ones in whom the blame stops when it comes to life and death. I heard a young doctor say that a certain consultant owned a patient and if the patient dies he is the one that will be blamed; not the nurse, not the lab scientist, not the pharmacist, not even the house officer(the young doctor). And that'swhy they are paid the bIG money.

If the other health care professionals want to further their own field to the betterment of the patient I see nothing wrong in it. However I'm sure they have their own titles. They should be proud of their field and not try to encroach on or steal another specialties title in the name of 'helping the patient'. And I can assure you, knowing how Nigeria is, that no sooner they answer consultant that they'll start demanding for similar pay and wanting to have Dr attached to their names. Some are already doing it sef.

I just see selfishness and greed in this. haba. Let's tell the truth abeg.

5minsmadness:
This your post smacks of ignorance and naivety. Read between the lines. Its obvious the other folks ganging against the doctors are doing it for political and selfish reasons.

All these years are you saying doctors have been preventing them from furthering their education? I think the main issue here is that they want to answer the post of 'consultant' , a position strictly reserved for the medical doctor and which position reflects an authority in charge of the patient
These consultants are the ones in whom the blame stops when it comes to life and death. I heard a young doctor say that a certain consultant owned a patient and if the patient dies he is the one that will be blamed; not the nurse, not the lab scientist, not the pharmacist, not even the house officer(the young doctor). And that'swhy they are paid the bIG money.

If the other health care professionals want to further their own field to the betterment of the patient I see nothing wrong in it. However I'm sure they have their own titles. They should be proud of their field and not try to encroach on or steal another specialties title in the name of 'helping the patient'. And I can assure you, knowing how Nigeria is, that no sooner they answer consultant that they'll start demanding for similar pay and wanting to have Dr attached to their names. Some are already doing it sef.

I just see selfishness and greed in this. haba. Let's tell the truth abeg.

Samgreguc:
like Dr. Ngozi Iweala and Dr. Goodluck Jonathan(GCFR) did sheay?
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Pls, take it easy eh, the title Dr is not only for Physicians. A Pharm. graduate of UNIBEN is a Pharm. Doctor just like a Med graduate is a Med. Doctor.

jideolubiyi:

Maybe when you're done calling me ignorant and naive, you will realize that you're sounding scared, threatened by these other health workers. It takes someone scared out of his wits to consider that particular titles belong to you just because you are doctors.

Specialist status doesn't belong to any group of people.

It's the warped political culture in the country that encouraged the unwarranted arrogance of employees like medical doctors.

So you think I'm naive, ignorant because I gave no hoot about calling a spade a spade? We shall all stand here and see how these all turn out

The time is already ripe for the public to get involved in this madness, this madness that allows some dumb-ass health workers to think they can do just what they like. We are going to see more of what happened in Lagos, and by the time many of the hospitals are privatized, as a private owners some of us will set salaries strictly based on output and market forces...

You wrote as if the public is so unaware of goings-on at the public hospitals. I make bold to say that once the medical doctors become consultants it virtually becomes impossible for patients to see them again.

They simply disappear from the stations. In short, they become less useful to the public than before they became that. Now, how does medical consultancy help us? Apart from the fact that tax-payers' money used in training your lots become wasted...Yes, we still have to continue paying their inflated salaries while they disappear from serving the public to manning their private clinics.

You can abuse the public, even accuse us of being ignorant and unable to read the happenings.

Go ahead and do all that. You are all moving us towards privatizing the sector, and some of us are waiting for just that. If a nurse practitioner is more useful to a patient care, then she/he is going to be remunerated accordingly.... By then you will lose your hideous confidence in such catch phrases as "pay relativity", "government is the root of all the evil in the health sector", "doctors own the patients"... Your possession of medical license..etc will cease to be your claim to public respect, but your contribution to patient management as adjudged by the public, by the patients

And when private investors control the sector, we shall see who is really ignorant...the investing public or our medical doctors.