I understand the sentiment of the OP.

But I don't know if he can see that Judeo-Christian/Abrahamic religions due to their belief that they are the best religion and denomination (Catholics vs Protestant vs independent churches vs sunni vs shia vs hinduism vs Shinto vs other religions vs Atheism/Agnostism) will always lead to this kind of extremism. When you consider the spiritual belief of other people as wrong, devilish, heathens, infidels, etc, you're on the path toward Boko Haram and the Islamic State, Crusades and Jihads as well as conflicts between various denominations.

HolyHolla: Yes, I am a proud to say that I am a Christian and not an atheist.
I similarly believe that Hitler was a terrorist as well as the Catholic Crusaders and God never mandated their destructive missions. I also believe that whoever decides to pick an illegal mandate in the name of God should be condemned and tagged "unChristian". I thought you too should also be against terrorists, no matter their professed religions. That is why I am surprised that you are rather fighting those who condemn Islamist terrorists instead of the terrorists themselves.

Likewise, Boko Haram, Isil, are terrorist and Allah(God) has never mandated them to do so. Maybe you try to read the OP’s post once again, exactly why he create this topic was to let you and your likes to realized that Muslims are not in support of their atrocities but instead of you people to agree with him, you started against him and blackmailing Islam as your usual act

HolyHolla: Yes, I am a proud to say that I am a Christian and not an atheist.
I am definitely not on the same page with those defending the issue of $10 million smuggled into SA for clandestine activities. I am more miffed by the fact that they chose to use the CAN president's jet for this illegal activity. I am also ashamed to read CAN's defense of the issue and their attack on the opposition, which I believe is just passing the buck. I, for one, will not shield those who claim the same religion with me when they step out of line. To me, the CAN official who fixed a blast in church to prove his prediction true was definitely out of line too.

Good for you and neither will a good muslim support violence or any act of terrorism

HolyHolla:
I am happy to read this statement from you; "The bone of contention is that if somebody claims to be fighting for Allah, does that mean truly he is fighting for Allah sake or Allah truly command him to do so?" But I'm still at a loss as to why you will chose to trade brickbats with Pastor Kun and the others over their condemnation of BH or their claims that the quran contains elements that seem to justify such violence. Is it not true? Have you not read such passages before? If there are such in the quran, the next step, as I mentioned earlier, should be to upgrade your mind to the 21st Century, just like I believe the Catholics and Nazis have done by now eschewing violence. Even the Catholics of Northern Ireland have stopped the violent wars for independence from GB. For this, I have more respect for Muslims in the southern parts of Nigeria who have abstained from violence to prove their religion. Even though they too read the quran, they have mostly upgraded to modernity, except for a few who still voice out violent teachings.

Can’t you figure out that the likes of pastorkun you mentioned have allowed their being animal of low level makes them translate the verse of the Qura’an to suit their hypocrisy and blackmailing act
Qura’an has in no way support any act of terror and if you have read any and you think the meaning is what you claim, you can let both you and I engage our self in the explanation
I bet it majority Christians (although some may no) has never being peaceful even till this 21st century

HolyHolla:
The main question that should be on everybody's mind now is, "why are Islamists now waking up into unfruitful destruction?" Right now, the terror wars are far from where we dwell and we may feel comfortable with that until they move to our very dwellings too. We should therefore, all rise up to voice condemnation of these extremists before they get to us too.

I think you should reframe “why are Islamist” although not denying that some of them Might be muslim(that do not understand their religion) but lot of things are fishy. For example
1- The armed money liked to CAN president if succeeded are meant for who?
Christian Boko Haram, Muslim Boko Haram or Political Boko Haram?
2- CAN chairman who plot a terror act in osun, if succeeded, won’t you say Muslims again?
3- ISIL who did you think they are killing? Christian alon? Muslim not Involved? Muslim killing muslims?
4- ISIL Takfir trained in Jordan around 2012 to overthrow the government of Syria. Who do you think trained them(America and Isreal)
My brother so many things are wrong

HolyHolla:
But I'm still bothered by your submissions, " Now I will shed light on conditions for Islamic war
1- It must be declared under Islamic Stateby Muslim leader(Single Leader) not Sect leader.
2- It should be fought if you are attacked and should be commanded by Islamic leader. The Prophet lived with pagan in Macca peacefully after he conquered them; he lived with Christians in Medina even when muslims were majority". Are you still claiming that in this 21st Century, there is yet validity for any type of violent jihad based on these stated terms? Then, where is the 'Religion of peace" in violence? It is the same defense that Takfiris in the Islamic State use to justify their horror. The Muslim slaughter man who appears on video keeps saying they are decapitating Westerners in their captivity because US and Britain attacked them. They "peacefully" tax the Christians in their captured territories on the orders of quranic injunctions. So, how is your mindset different from that of the Takfiris?

My brother base on the two rules I cited, where did you think they fit in with the claim of those terrorist you mentioned

HolyHolla: We who are educated have the compulsory mandate to speak out now before the almajiris and their provocators take over and send us into early graves.

You need to be in North to know who almajiris are

Abdulsalam20: THE PROBLEM U CHRISTIAN HAVE IS THAT U DONT EVEN SIT DOWN ONE DAY AND THINK WHAT IS RELIGION?IS IT WHAT I PRACTISE BECAUSE MY PARENT ARE PRACTICING IT?
OR AM I PRCTICING IT BECAUSE I CONSIDER IT AS A WAY?
CHRISTIANITY ISNT A RELIGION CHECK MY PROFILE FOR MORE DETAIL AND ALSO FOLLOW THIS LINK
www.nairaland.com/739943/demolishing-falsehood-christianity-bible
U WILL SEE THE TRUTH
CHECK MY SIGNATURE IT JUSTIFY THAT THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION
IF U CAN READ THE QURAN YOU WILL DISCOVER THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE ISLAM DONT ALLOW UNJUST KILLING WHAT ISLAM MEANS IS TOTAL SUMISSION TO GOD UNCONDITIONALLY
BUT U CHRISTIANS U WORSHIP A PROPHET INSTEAD OF GOD
THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS SAY THAT ALL CHRISTIAN DONT FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF JESUS
ONLY MUSLIMS FOLLOW HIM TRUTHFULLY LIKE I SAID CHECK MY PROFILE FOR MORE REALITY
AND ALSO FOLLOW THIS LINK
www.nairaland.com/739943/demolishing-falsehood-christianity-bible

Does it occur to you at all that the quran places greater honor on Jesus than on Mohammed? Why, if I may ask, is this so? You can read the blog in the following link to understand better.

mongsexpressive..com.es/2014/08/christ-more-honored-in-koran-than.html?m=1


10 Verses from the Quran Prove ISIS Truly Follows Islam


Muslims around the world, along with U.S. President Barack Obama, have denounced ISIS, saying that their actions do not define Islam and are wholly against the Quran. But versesstraightfrom the same book both moderate Muslims and ISIS insurgents reference show thatthe savages arenot misinterpreting the Apostle Muhammad after all.

David Woods of AnsweringMuslims.com dedicates his time to studying the Quranand hadith (Muhammad’s quotes and biography). Now, he has compiled a list of10 scripturesto expose the hypocrisy of the moderate Muslim, proving that ISIS is the trueexample of devout Islamists:

10. Muslims must hate non-believers
Quran 3:32 – “Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad); but if they turn away, then indeed, Allah does not love the disbelievers.”

9. Muslims must discriminate against unbelievers
Quran 48:29 – “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful amongst themselves.”

8. Muslims can rape women, so long as they take them as wives or slaves
Quran 4:24 – “And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hand possess.”

7. Muslims must persecutethose who are against the establishmentof an Islamic State
Quran 5:33 – “Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but thatthey be killed or crucified or thattheir hands and feet be cut offfrom opposite sides or thatthey be exiled from the land. That is forthem a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafteris a great punishment.”

6. Muslims must slaughter anyone who won’t convert to Islam
Quran 9:5 – “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

5. Muslims can be merciful by forcing Jews and Christians to payfines and live in apartheid
Quran 9:29 – “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truthfrom those who were given the Scripture –[fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.”

4. Muslims may slaughter other Muslims
Qruan 9:73 – “O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocritesand be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.”

3. Muslims must not be peaceful or moderate, but war for Allah
Quran 9:111 – “Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believerstheir lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed.”

2. Muslims should not seek peace unless they have rid their community of unbelievers
Quran 47:35 – “So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior; and Allah is with you and will never deprive you of [the reward of] yourdeeds.”

1. Peaceful quranic verseswere before Allah’s commands of slaughter, and are therefore annulled
Quran 2:106 – “We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except thatWe bring forth [one] better than itor similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?”
Considering the extremenature of theseverses, it would seem redundant to claim that ISIS are extremistsof Islam, while they actually interpret the quranic commands as literally as possible, resurrecting the barbaricleadership of their prophet Muhammad.

Still, Muslims who choose to follow the abrogated commands of Allah are out-dated, choosey, and, according to the Quran 9:73, hypocritical. While debating that ISIS fightersare truly representing Islam in its purest form doesn’t solve the crisis, it is the firststep to acknowledging that Islam is the problem and will always breed terror.

Youngsage: Exactly.

WHY LYING THIS IS WHAT IS IN THE VERSE YOUR BROTHER POSTED
1:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.1:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
THIS VERSE MEANS THOSE WHO ATTACK YOU PLS FEAR GOD OO

honeychild: @Abdulsalam20

I am really shocked at the list of Christians who have participated in church bombings. I have never actually heard of this. I would like to verify this information. Any links?

YOU CAN GOOGLE SEARCH IT I PUT THEIR NAME THERE AN SOME WITH DATE U ARE FREE TO VERIFY IT SIR
AND ALSO PLS VERIFY THIS ALSO
A PASTOR IN OSUN STATE WHO WITH HIS FELLOW PASTOR DISGUIST AS BOKOHARAM AND INVADE THEIR CHURCH WITH BANGER JUST TO GIVE ISLAM BAD NAME BUT THANK GOD THEY WERE CAUGHT
PLS TO GET THIS JUST TYPE 'OSUN PASTOR WHO ACT AS BOKOHARAM

[quote author=HolyHolla][/quote] LIKE I HAVE SAID ISLAM BY NO WAY DID NOT SUPPORT TERRORISM ANY MUSLIM WHO ENGAGE IN IT IS NOT SUPPORTING ISLAM IF U READ A TOPIC THAT HIT FP YESTERDAY ABOUT THE NORTHERNERS THE GUY SAID MOST OF THEM JOIN IT DUE TO POVERTY AND EAGER FOR DEVELOPMENT PLS I CANT QUOTE ALL WHAT HE SAID BUT U CAN STILL FIND IT THERE
AS U CAN SEE I DONT INTENTIONALLY POSTED ALL WHAT I POSTED BUT UR CHRISTIAN FRNDS DEMAND IT FROM ME
THEY SAID ONLY MUSLIM ARE IN BOKOHARAM EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE SOME EIDENCE THAT LINK JONATHAN AND CAN PRESIDENT WITH TERRORISM
IMAGINE THE JET SIEZED IN SOUTH AFRICA THAT WANT TO PURCHASE AMMUNITION FROM AN UN AUTHORISED AGENT IN SOUTH AFRICA THE JET BELONGING TO CAN PRESIDENT PLS WHO THE HELL WANT TO USE THE AMMUNITION IS IT BOKOHARAM OR NIGER DELTA MILITANT IMAGINE IF SUCH ACT WAS LINKED WITH A MUSLIM LEADER
BUT THANK GOD THOSE BOKOHARAM ARE NOW SURRENDERING AFTER THEY DONT HAVE ANY AMMUNITION AGAIN.....PLEASE ISLAM IS WHAT THE QURAN SAYS AND NOT WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS

yazach, I very much appreciate your sensible contributions. I agree that the Ops caption of this thread is not in support of BH. But I didn't draw the first blood; it was the defenses put up by some fanatic Muslims on the thread that led to the long discourse. Instead of lending a hand to strengthen the caption, they started throwing stones without realizing that they are living in glass houses. It's a pity, I just have to engage them to disabuse the wrong notions being planted in the minds of those who may not be better informed.

If you follow my posts you will discover that I'm not in defense of CAN leader on issue of the $10million money laundering saga, neither in support of CAN's explanation. I will not support illegality just because it is perpetrated by someone who bears the same title with me. But then, we are not yet sure of what really happened and we still need to wait for further outcome and see how the case goes to conclude if it was a case of money meant to buy arms for BH, or simply another type of serendipity of the usual clandestine thefts by government officials. Isis, Isil and IS are killing all who are not like them, I agree and I stated it earlier. The more reason we should all lend a voice in condemning them rather than engaging each other.

When you say ISIS and other Takfiris are not Muslims, I tend to disagree and rather say they are extremist Muslims who believe in strict interpretation of quran because what they practice is also found in the quran. But Muslims who are enlightened and educated who try to moderate the quran to suit the exigencies of the 21st Century see them in bad light while they see us all, Muslims and Kafir as infidels. That's why they are killing Muslims too. If you try and google a magazine published by these Takfiris, 'Dabiq', and read their submissions, you will understand what I'm saying better. They claim that they are bent on executing the words of the Islamic writtings and ulama to the last letter.

Yes, just as you said, 'Christians' too have used biblical verses to justify persecution, oppression, terror and bringandage until the 19th Century when they wisened up more into democratic ideals. I'm asking Muslims too to copy. I am not in support of American and Western military interventions. Apparently, they brought out the demons in the Takfiris whom they trained to fight against one another but who have now turned their weapons against them and the whole world as we have seen. America is not a Christian nation, but secular, mind you. They are just as evil in their machinations and selfish interests as anyone else.

I sure know who the Almanjiris are. I lived a while in the North awhile and travelled around too. During my sojourn, I kept thinking, "If something definite is not done about these chaps, they will someday become willing tools in the hands of extremist Muslims". Now, I see majority of them within the ranks and file of BH for no reason other than search for daily bread, enticement or coercion into the group. But that is not surprising as they have earlier been veritable tools in the hands of Northern rioters for decades.

"So many things are wrong" as you rightly stated. We all need to join hands to save our destiny rather than engaging mutual brutal attacks. With these said, I will soon bow out of this thread, expecting that we have presented enough facts and figures here for anyone to judge and decide.

But I never run from any challenge and will still accept yours to discuss facts if you are keen. You can open your thread and mention my moniker to tag me. I'm game, always.





[/quote]

HolyHolla:

PastorKun, let us give him the privilege of saying he is right that some of these cases actually occurred, although many were merely fabricated or tuned to butress his point. What I will really want Abdulsalam20 to prove to us is that Christian theology justifies such acts just as the quran justifies terrorist jihads.

Jesus, whom the Christians follow His teachings never fought any war nor encouraged His followers on such course. But historical antecedents of Islam is filled with wars of attrition and conquests. Mohammed himself wrote and demonstrated that his followers must perpetually live by war, he himself having been a warrior leader. It does not come as a surprise to me as the Bible predicted long before that the sons of Ishmael would live like terrorists.

Genesis 16 [11 ] "And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
[12 ]"And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." What we see currently as Islamic terrorism is a fulfillment of this.

Differences Between Muhammad (Islamic teachings) and Jesus (Christian teachings):

Muhammad... #SaidAllah hates those who don't accept Islam. (Qur'an 30:45, 3:32, 22:38) #JesusSaid God loves everyone. (John 3:16) Muhammad...#"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testifythat there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" (Muslim 1:33) #Jesus "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." (Matthew 26:52) Muhammad...# Stoned women for adultery. (Muslim 4206) #Jesus "Let he who is without sin castthe firststone." (John 8:7) Muhammad... #Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys. (Sahih Muslim 4390) #Jesus Beheaded no one. Muhammad... #Murdered those who insulted him. (Bukhari 56:369, 4:241) #Jesus Preached forgiveness. (Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38) Muhammad...#"If then anyone transgressesthe prohibition against you, Transgressye likewise against him" (Qur'an 2:194) #Jesus "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39) Muhammad... #Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold. (Muslim 4645) #Jesus "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God" (Matthew 5:9) Muhammad... #Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves. (Bukhari 5:268, Qur'an 33:50) #Jesus...Was celibate. Muhammad... #Slept with a 9-year-old child. (Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236) #Jesus. Did not have sex with children. Muhammad #Ordered the murder of women. (Ibn Ishaq 819, 995) #Jesus...Never #harmed a woman. Muhammad...#"O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness." (Qur'an 9:123) #Jesus..."Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)


Now check this Quranic verses out: Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them( 2:191 ) Make war on the infidels living in your neighbourhood ( 9:123 ) When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them ( 9:5 ) Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax ( 9:29 ) Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable ( 3:85 ) The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them ( 9:30 ) Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam.( 5:33 ) The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque ( 9:28 ) Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies ( 22:19 ) Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them ( 47:4 ) The unbelievers are silly; urge the Muslims to fightthem ( 8:65 ) Muslims mustnot take the infidels as friends ( 3:28 ) Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an ( 8:12 ) Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels ( 8:60 )

SINCE I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU I NEVER MISQUOTE ANY PASSAGE I QUOTE IT ACCORDING TO HOW IT IS QUOTED
WHY MISQUOTING QURAN
2:191
PLS READ IT FROM 190
1:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.1:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the S
acred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.1:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
THIS VERSE SAYS FIGHT ONLY THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU AND DONT TRANSGRESS LIMIT BECAUSE IN ISLAM DURING WAR THERE ARE LAWS GUIDING IT LIKE DONT KILL CHILDREN WOMEN THEIR ANIMAL AND DONT KILL THOSE WHO DONT ATTACK YOU

QURAN CHAPTER 9 VERSE 123

1:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
THIS CLEARLY STATE THAT THOSE WHO GIRD YOU ABOUT

@ PASTOR KUN PLS DONT JUST COPY AND PASTE FROM ANYWHERE WITHOUT VERIFYING THEM PLS DOWNLOAD ENGLISH QURAN U WILL SEE THAT ALL WHAT U POSTED ARE FALACY
EVEN U DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND YOUR BIBLE U CLAIM JESUS NEVER KILL PLS WHAT OF THIS?
Check Jesus
words to his decides in Luke 22:36 He said to
them, “But now if you have a purse, take it,
and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword,
sell your cloak and buy one. Check your
dictionary to know the meaning of purse,
bag, and Sword. The Bible have already tell us
the meaning of Sword in Ezekiel 21:9 “‘A
sword, a sword, sharpened and polished—
sharpened for the slaughter, 10 polished to
flash like lightning! “‘The sword is appointed
to be polished, 11 to be grasped with the
hand; it is sharpened and polished, made
ready for the hand of the slayer..
U CLAIM STONNING TO DEATH IS IN THE QURAN PLS WHAT OF THIS VERSES IN THE BIBLE
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with
another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and
the woman must die. "
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another
man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the
adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. "
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks
judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. " He
destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. " Why should only a
daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes
herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
CUTTING OF HAND IN THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the
wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his
assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his
private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no
pity. " This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why
should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her
husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or
anything like that!
We clearly see that adultery causes death from the Verses
above. Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said
about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife,
except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another
woman commits adultery. " Wouldn't this cause the man
to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery against her. " Again,
wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have
committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries
another man, she commits adultery. " Same question I
ask about the women who are considered have committed
adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery, and the man who
marries a divorced woman commits adultery. "
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New
Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave
them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old
Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in
the New Testament must be put to death

Abdulsalam20:
SINCE I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU I NEVER MISQUOTE ANY PASSAGE I QUOTE IT ACCORDING TO HOW IT IS QUOTED
WHY MISQUOTING QURAN
2:191
PLS READ IT FROM 190
1:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.1:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the S
acred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.1:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
THIS VERSE SAYS FIGHT ONLY THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU AND DONT TRANSGRESS LIMIT BECAUSE IN ISLAM DURING WAR THERE ARE LAWS GUIDING IT LIKE DONT KILL CHILDREN WOMEN THEIR ANIMAL AND DONT KILL THOSE WHO DONT ATTACK YOU

QURAN CHAPTER 9 VERSE 123

1:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
THIS CLEARLY STATE THAT THOSE WHO GIRD YOU ABOUT

Thanks for the enlightenement, my friend. I'm not a scholar in quranic matters, but the little I read (I do have an Arabic quran; English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, and I and read it to know better) and what I understand is what I quote. Perhaps there're some exegesis I miss out. I notice that there are instances where jihad is specfically tied to conditions as you stated, while in others, it was discussed independently of conditions. How do you view these two?

@Abdulsalam20 to Holyholla

1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden
in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that
God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is
forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a
crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it
be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall
be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it
shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
.....................I removed the rest of the post

SINCE I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU I NEVER MISQUOTE ANY PASSAGE I QUOTE IT ACCORDING TO HOW IT IS QUOTED
WHY MISQUOTING QURAN
2:191
PLS READ IT FROM 190
1:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.1:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the S
acred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.1:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
THIS VERSE SAYS FIGHT ONLY THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU AND DONT TRANSGRESS LIMIT BECAUSE IN ISLAM DURING WAR THERE ARE LAWS GUIDING IT LIKE DONT KILL CHILDREN WOMEN THEIR ANIMAL AND DONT KILL THOSE WHO DONT ATTACK YOU

QURAN CHAPTER 9 VERSE 123

1:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
THIS CLEARLY STATE THAT THOSE WHO GIRD YOU ABOUT

Actually you misquoted the verse highlighted in the first quote....You quoted the oft "underquoted" verse by muslim apologists. I say underquoted because they never seem to quote the complete verse. They always manage to leave out the "Children of Israel" and the context by not quoting the verse after it

Surah 5:32 Sahih International
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
Surah 5:33 Sahih International
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

Surah 5:53 Sahih International
And those who believe will say, "Are these the ones who swore by Allah their strongest oaths that indeed they were with you?" Their deeds have become worthless, and they have become losers.

Abdulsalam20: @ PASTOR KUN PLS DONT JUST COPY AND PASTE FROM ANYWHERE WITHOUT VERIFYING THEM PLS DOWNLOAD ENGLISH QURAN U WILL SEE THAT ALL WHAT U POSTED ARE FALACY
EVEN U DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND YOUR BIBLE U CLAIM JESUS NEVER KILL PLS WHAT OF THIS?
Check Jesus
words to his decides in Luke 22:36 He said to
them, “But now if you have a purse, take it,
and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword,
sell your cloak and buy one. Check your
dictionary to know the meaning of purse,
bag, and Sword. The Bible have already tell us
the meaning of Sword in Ezekiel 21:9 “‘A
sword, a sword, sharpened and polished—
sharpened for the slaughter, 10 polished to
flash like lightning! “‘The sword is appointed
to be polished, 11 to be grasped with the
hand; it is sharpened and polished, made
ready for the hand of the slayer..
U CLAIM STONNING TO DEATH IS IN THE QURAN PLS WHAT OF THIS VERSES IN THE BIBLE
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with
another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and
the woman must die. "
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another
man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the
adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. "
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks
judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. " He
destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. " Why should only a
daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes
herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
CUTTING OF HAND IN THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the
wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his
assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his
private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no
pity. " This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why
should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her
husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or
anything like that!
We clearly see that adultery causes death from the Verses
above. Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said
about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife,
except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another
woman commits adultery. " Wouldn't this cause the man
to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery against her. " Again,
wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have
committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries
another man, she commits adultery. " Same question I
ask about the women who are considered have committed
adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery, and the man who
marries a divorced woman commits adultery. "
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New
Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave
them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old
Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in
the New Testament must be put to death

Please, how does this prove that Jesus killed or supported killing?

Abdulsalam20: @ PASTOR KUN PLS DONT JUST COPY AND PASTE FROM ANYWHERE WITHOUT VERIFYING THEM PLS DOWNLOAD ENGLISH QURAN U WILL SEE THAT ALL WHAT U POSTED ARE FALACY
EVEN U DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND YOUR BIBLE U CLAIM JESUS NEVER KILL PLS WHAT OF THIS?
Check Jesus
words to his decides in Luke 22:36 He said to
them, “But now if you have a purse, take it,
and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword,
sell your cloak and buy one. Check your
dictionary to know the meaning of purse,
bag, and Sword. The Bible have already tell us
the meaning of Sword in Ezekiel 21:9 “‘A
sword, a sword, sharpened and polished—
sharpened for the slaughter, 10 polished to
flash like lightning! “‘The sword is appointed
to be polished, 11 to be grasped with the
hand; it is sharpened and polished, made
ready for the hand of the slayer..
U CLAIM STONNING TO DEATH IS IN THE QURAN PLS WHAT OF THIS VERSES IN THE BIBLE
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with
another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and
the woman must die. "
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another
man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the
adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. "
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks
judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. " He
destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. " Why should only a
daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes
herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
CUTTING OF HAND IN THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the
wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his
assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his
private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no
pity. " This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why
should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her
husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or
anything like that!
We clearly see that adultery causes death from the Verses
above. Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said
about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife,
except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another
woman commits adultery. " Wouldn't this cause the man
to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery against her. " Again,
wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have
committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries
another man, she commits adultery. " Same question I
ask about the women who are considered have committed
adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery, and the man who
marries a divorced woman commits adultery. "
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New
Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave
them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old
Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in
the New Testament must be put to death

If as you claimed, "according to Jesus ..., the adulterer in the New Testament must be put to death", why then did Jesus proclaim a verdict of "neither do I condemn you..." on her?

HolyHolla:

If as you claimed, "according to Jesus ..., the adulterer in the New Testament must be put to death", why then did Jesus proclaim a verdict of "neither do I condemn you..." on her?

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the
Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace
be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what
they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these
verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers
to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer
in
the New Testament must be put to death

NOW ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION
Many Christians use these verses to justify fornication and
pornography.
And the
use of John 8:1-11 does indeed raise a great concern to
Morals and Ethics.
For one thing, it is the biggest mistake for the citizens of
the Christian Whoredom to use John 8:1-11 as an excuse
for the sexual sins they commit against GOD Almighty.
When Jesus peace be upon him refused to stone the
woman, HE ACTUALLY REFUSED TO BE A HYPOCRITE!
Have he ordered the stoning of the woman, he would have
been indeed a hypocrite, because people in charge of
authority back then were not following anything in the
Law properly. He even called them "hypocrites" in several
occasions; see Matthew 6:2, 5, 16, Matthew 15:7, Matthew
22:18, Matthew 23:13, 15, 23, 25, 27, 29, Matthew 24:51,
Mark 7:6 and Luke 13:15 in the Bible. So why punish the
weakest citizen and leave the cause of the corruption?!
That was the Message that Jesus peace be upon him gave
to the people back then. Notice that John 8:6 clearly says
"They were using this question as a trap" , which clearly
means that the situation of John 8:1-11 was no more than a
trap to make Jesus peace be upon him make a mistake.
That's why HE DIDN'T ALLOW THEM TO OUT SMART HIM
AND FORCE HIM TO GIVE ANY JUDGMENT AGAINST THE
WOMAN. Jesus peace be upon him didn't in anyway
nullify the Laws of GOD Almighty regarding punishment
for adultery.
As I mentioned above, keep in mind that when Jesus gave
the above mentioned laws regarding what he considered
adultery, he gave them during the time when he spoke
highly of the Old Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.

HolyHolla:

Please, how does this prove that Jesus killed or supported killing?

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in
the New Testament must be put to death






ALSO PLEASE READ THIS
Check Jesus
words to his decides in Luke 22:36 He said to
them, “But now if you have a purse, take it,
and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword,
sell your cloak and buy one. Check your
dictionary to know the meaning of purse,
bag, and Sword. The Bible have already tell us
the meaning of Sword in Ezekiel 21:9 “‘A
sword, a sword, sharpened and polished—
sharpened for the slaughter, 10 polished to
flash like lightning! “‘The sword is appointed
to be polished, 11 to be grasped with the
hand; it is sharpened and polished, made
ready for the hand of the slayer

proo212: @Abdulsalam20 to Holyholla





Actually you misquoted the verse highlighted in the first quote....You quoted the oft "underquoted" verse by muslim apologists. I say underquoted because they never seem to quote the complete verse. They always manage to leave out the "Children of Israel" and the context by not quoting the verse after it

Surah 5:32 Sahih International
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
Surah 5:33 Sahih International
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

Surah 5:53 Sahih International
And those who believe will say, "Are these the ones who swore by Allah their strongest oaths that indeed they were with you?" Their deeds have become worthless, and they have become losers.

........SIR I KNOW WHAT I WRITE IF U READ THE POST I PUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS................THIS IS AN INDICATION THAT SOMETHING IS BEHIND BEFORE THE PRESENT SENTENCE AND BESIDE I ONLY POSTED THAT SIDE FOR HIM TO KNOW THE REALITY AND I PUT..........CONTINUATION SIGN THIS HAS ALREADY SIGNIFY THAT I DIDNT MISQUOTE
PLEASE I THINK U NEED TO CONSULT YOUR ENGLISH TEXTBOOK

Abdulsalam20: 1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden
in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that
God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is
forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a
crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it
be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall
be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it
shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in
Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on
other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in
religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The
Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in
622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse
of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into
adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.
3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says,
“But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline
towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears
and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,”
2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight
against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not
aggressors.”
4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can
declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly
constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in
the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime
minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national
jurisconsult.
5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden.
According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first
Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in
ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm;
do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any
town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which
groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion
rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces
for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading
of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida
5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman
Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d.
464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who
disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe
to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking
money, killing people or violating what God has made it
unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must
give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet
Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those
who harm you and is said to have commanded , “Do not be
people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat
you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you
will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do
good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do
evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice
toward people even where they have reason to be angry with
them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from
being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]

Quoting from your post again......You said you never misquoted and I insist that you misquoted....

HolyHolla: yazach, I very much appreciate your sensible contributions. I agree that the Ops caption of this thread is not in support of BH. But I didn't draw the first blood; it was the defenses put up by some fanatic Muslims on the thread that led to the long discourse. Instead of lending a hand to strengthen the caption, they started throwing stones without realizing that they are living in glass houses. It's a pity, I just have to engage them to disabuse the wrong notions being planted in the minds of those who may not be better informed.

They same way some hypocrites does. Anytime you see a good muslim trying to state his/her clear picture regarding terrorism, you see Christians with the aim of blackmailing Islam responding as if this muslims is telling lie. But I have read some of the muslims responds (regarding act of terrorism) on this particular thread that will ever support the act rather you will see Christians posting Quarnic verses and give them their suited meanings

HolyHolla:
If you follow my posts you will discover that I'm not in defense of CAN leader on issue of the $10million money laundering saga, neither in support of CAN's explanation. I will not support illegality just because it is perpetrated by someone who bears the same title with me. But then, we are not yet sure of what really happened and we still need to wait for further outcome and see how the case goes to conclude if it was a case of money meant to buy arms for BH, or simply another type of serendipity of the usual clandestine thefts by government officials. Isis, Isil and IS are killing all who are not like them, I agree and I stated it earlier. The more reason we should all lend a voice in condemning them rather than engaging each other.

A sane and peace loving entity will never support involvement of CAN leader in the scenario even if we assumed he wasn’t aware, we are in a delicate time in this country when it comes to religion.
You can read why CATHOLIC said they withdrew from CAN. They said and I quote “we notice that CAN is no more promoting peace which oppose the aim and objective of the association”

HolyHolla:
When you say ISIS and other Takfiris are not Muslims, I tend to disagree and rather say they are extremist Muslims who believe in strict interpretation of quran because what they practice is also found in the quran. But Muslims who are enlightened and educated who try to moderate the quran to suit the exigencies of the 21st Century see them in bad light while they see us all, Muslims and Kafir as infidels. That's why they are killing Muslims too. If you try and google a magazine published by these Takfiris, 'Dabiq', and read their submissions, you will understand what I'm saying better. They claim that they are bent on executing the words of the Islamic writtings and ulama to the last letter.

I bet it if I ever said they are not muslims but rather muslims who doesn’t understand the teachings of their religion. But you can imagine a muslim killing muslims in the name of religion!!! Does that make sense, Christian kill Christian in the name of religion
I notice some statements like ”because what the practice is found in Qura’an”, does that mean they are acting according to Qura’an? Because I read your post citing some verses also, if you have that understanding too, try to post the verses one by one and let us do justice to it

HolyHolla:
Yes, just as you said, 'Christians' too have used biblical verses to justify persecution, oppression, terror and bringandage until the 19th Century when they wisened up more into democratic ideals. I'm asking Muslims too to copy. I am not in support of American and Western military interventions. Apparently, they brought out the demons in the Takfiris whom they trained to fight against one another but who have now turned their weapons against them and the whole world as we have seen. America is not a Christian nation, but secular, mind you. They are just as evil in their machinations and selfish interests as anyone else.

My brother, am very sure till today Christians do commit atrocities of the highest order only that cover-ups from media were many. just Google it “Atrocities of Christians in the 21st century”
This does not mean am in support of any crime act but to tell people that if a rotten egg is found in a dozen that does not means all the egg are alike or the crate connecting them mandate their rottenness

HolyHolla:
I sure know who the Almanjiris are. I lived a while in the North awhile and travelled around too. During my sojourn, I kept thinking, "If something definite is not done about these chaps, they will someday become willing tools in the hands of extremist Muslims". Now, I see majority of them within the ranks and file of BH for no reason other than search for daily bread, enticement or coercion into the group. But that is not surprising as they have earlier been veritable tools in the hands of Northern rioters for decades.

"So many things are wrong" as you rightly stated. We all need to join hands to save our destiny rather than engaging mutual brutal attacks. With these said, I will soon bow out of this thread, expecting that we have presented enough facts and figures here for anyone to judge and decide.
But I never run from any challenge and will still accept yours to discuss facts if you are keen. You can open your thread and mention my moniker to tag me. I'm game, always.

I will not engage you regarding Almajiris but I will still repeat it that:
So many things are wrong and that is the reason why the sultanate have said and I quote “BAD PEOPLE ARE PERPETRATORS OF EVIL, LET THE GOOD ONES COME TOGETHER AND FIGHT THE BAD ONES”

LASTLY, NO GOOD MUSLIM SUPPORT TERRORISM AND NO SANE HUMAN BEIGN WILL DO

striktlymi:

There are a number of them actually. One of them is The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA). One of its leaders is Joseph Kony.

ok,thank you. But you do understand that they are not active as boko haram and the rest, or am i wrong? When last they carry attack on innocent citizen ?

Abdulsalam20: @ PASTOR KUN PLS DONT JUST COPY AND PASTE FROM ANYWHERE WITHOUT VERIFYING THEM PLS DOWNLOAD ENGLISH QURAN U WILL SEE THAT ALL WHAT U POSTED ARE FALACY
EVEN U DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND YOUR BIBLE U CLAIM JESUS NEVER KILL PLS WHAT OF THIS?
Check Jesus
words to his decides in Luke 22:36 He said to
them, “But now if you have a purse, take it,
and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword,
sell your cloak and buy one. Check your
dictionary to know the meaning of purse,
bag, and Sword. The Bible have already tell us
the meaning of Sword in Ezekiel 21:9 “‘A
sword, a sword, sharpened and polished—
sharpened for the slaughter, 10 polished to
flash like lightning! “‘The sword is appointed
to be polished, 11 to be grasped with the
hand; it is sharpened and polished, made
ready for the hand of the slayer..
U CLAIM STONNING TO DEATH IS IN THE QURAN PLS WHAT OF THIS VERSES IN THE BIBLE
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery."
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with
another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and
the woman must die. "
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another
man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the
adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. "
Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks
judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. " He
destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. " Why should only a
daughter of a priest gets burnt to death if she profanes
herself? Why can't this law apply to all daughters?
CUTTING OF HAND IN THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men are fighting and the
wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his
assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his
private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no
pity. " This doesn't make any sense what so ever! Why
should the woman get her hands cut off for defending her
husband? It's not like she was cheating on him or
anything like that!
We clearly see that adultery causes death from the Verses
above. Let us see what Jesus peace be upon him said
about adultery:
The following Verses are from the NIV Bible:
Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife,
except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another
woman commits adultery. " Wouldn't this cause the man
to be put to death?
Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery against her. " Again,
wouldn't he then be put to death since he would have
committed adultery?
Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries
another man, she commits adultery. " Same question I
ask about the women who are considered have committed
adultery. Wouldn't they be put to death also?
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries
another woman commits adultery, and the man who
marries a divorced woman commits adultery. "
My question here is: Would an adulterer in the New
Testament be put to death?
Keep in mind that when Jesus gave the above laws, he gave
them during the time when he spoke highly of the Old
Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer in
the New Testament must be put to death

You don't know pastorkun and malvis, they are blind men wanting to lead men with clear and functioning sight. All what the know is to throw stone in the glass house

Jazakumllah Khaira for those enlightenment

@Abdulsalam20

2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in
Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on
other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in
religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The
Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in
622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse
of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into
adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

I'm sure we'll argue till eternity that Surah 9 abrogates this chapter since this was the second to the last verse revealed. I will not even quote the hadiths (numerous) justifying compulsion.

I leave you with the same Islamic Law.....If you read through, you will notice that it uses Surah 9:29 and not 2:256....

THE OBJECTIVES OF JIHAD
o9.8 The caliph (o25) makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: provided he has first
invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the social
order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya, def: o11.4)-which is the significance of their
paying it, not the money itself-while remaining in their ancestral religions) (O: and the war continues)until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax (O: in accordance with the word of Allah Most High,
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His
messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given
the Book-until they pay the poll tax out of hand and are humbled" (Koran 9.29),
the time and place for which is before the final descent of Jesus (upon whom be peace). After his final
coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus'
descent (upon him and our Prophet be peace), which is the divinely revealed law of Muhammad. The
coming of Jesus does not entail a separate divinely revealed law, for he will rule by the law of
Muhammad. As for the Prophet's saying (Allah bless him and give him peace),
"I am the last, there will be no prophet after me,"
this does not contradict the final coming of Jesus (upon whom be peace), since he will not rule
according to the Evangel, but as a follower of our Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace)).

o9.9 The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people with
a Book, nor honored as such, and are not permitted to settle with paying the poll tax (jizya)) (n: though
according to the Hanafi school, peoples of all other religions, even idol worshippers, are permitted to
live under the protection of the Islamic state if they either become Muslim or agree to pay the poll tax,
the sole exceptions to which are apostates from Islam and idol worshippers who are Arabs, neither of
whom has any choice but becoming Muslim (al-Hidaya sharh Bidaya al-mubtadi' (y21), 6.48-49)).

Perhaps, you should have a discussion with a PhD holder in Islamic Studies to set you straight!!!

Abdulsalam20: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the
Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace
be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what
they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these
verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers
to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.
So according to Jesus peace be upon him, the adulterer
in
the New Testament must be put to death

NOW ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION
Many Christians use these verses to justify fornication and
pornography.
And the
use of John 8:1-11 does indeed raise a great concern to
Morals and Ethics.
For one thing, it is the biggest mistake for the citizens of
the Christian Whoredom to use John 8:1-11 as an excuse
for the sexual sins they commit against GOD Almighty.
When Jesus peace be upon him refused to stone the
woman, HE ACTUALLY REFUSED TO BE A HYPOCRITE!
Have he ordered the stoning of the woman, he would have
been indeed a hypocrite, because people in charge of
authority back then were not following anything in the
Law properly. He even called them "hypocrites" in several
occasions; see Matthew 6:2, 5, 16, Matthew 15:7, Matthew
22:18, Matthew 23:13, 15, 23, 25, 27, 29, Matthew 24:51,
Mark 7:6 and Luke 13:15 in the Bible. So why punish the
weakest citizen and leave the cause of the corruption?!
That was the Message that Jesus peace be upon him gave
to the people back then. Notice that John 8:6 clearly says
"They were using this question as a trap" , which clearly
means that the situation of John 8:1-11 was no more than a
trap to make Jesus peace be upon him make a mistake.
That's why HE DIDN'T ALLOW THEM TO OUT SMART HIM
AND FORCE HIM TO GIVE ANY JUDGMENT AGAINST THE
WOMAN. Jesus peace be upon him didn't in anyway
nullify the Laws of GOD Almighty regarding punishment
for adultery.
As I mentioned above, keep in mind that when Jesus gave
the above mentioned laws regarding what he considered
adultery, he gave them during the time when he spoke
highly of the Old Testament's Law:
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law
(the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is
accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from
these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be
upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that
every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and
fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The
teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So
you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But
do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they
preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly see in these verses
that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old
Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to
not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the
Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.

Smart answer, I must say. You are very wrong in saying Christians justify sin with biblical verses. No true Christian will do that, but only charlattans. If you find a Christian justifying adultery, fornication, gayism, lesbianism and all such crap, look deeper as that person is not committed to Christ as Lord and Savior. That established, let me enlighten you on why Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery to death and perhaps this will also help Muslims to understand why they cannot and must not follow the letters of the quran to the letter in the 21st Century.

Jesus did not come to execute judgment at that first advent. Yes, He declared that He did not come to bring peace to the world, but a sword of judgment. Because Jesus does not call the shots in the world, but Satan to whom Adam conceded his rights in the Garden of Eden, there can be no peace in the world yet. Yes, He has the power to, but He will force noone to believe in Him or follow Him. For those who believe, He gives His inner peace and rescues from the spiritual hold of Satan and promises them eternal life, but for those who refuse, He declares the sword of judgment when the time comes. So when He declares that He has not come to bring peace but judgment, this is what He means. When He comes back, He will appear, not as a sacrificial Lamb, but as a Lion that roars in judgment.

Jesus did not condemn the woman taken in adultery because,

1. He knew that the people only wanted to implicate him and they were insincere;

2. They brought only the woman for judgment and spared the man, though both were caught guilty red handed and that is injustice;

3. Jesus did not come to judge the world at that time, but to offer the grace of salvation;

4. Jesus came to give the chance of repentance and redemption to every sinner who accepts Him;

5. None of the accusers had a right to judge because they were guilty of other sins too;

6. The case had not been properly presented before the judges and the sentence could not be passed without adequate prosecution;

7. What the Jews wanted to do was against the law of the land. Roman laws permitted the Jews to judge concerning matters that did not involve death penalty only and that was why they could not crucify Jesus without getting Him convicted by Pilate. If Jesus asked that the OT law should be executed on the woman, He would be disobeying the law of Rome. He says to give to Ceaser what belongs to him, didn't He?

Taking a cue from all these, and points 5 and 7 particularly, that is why I say that even if the quran commands certain judgments on kafirs, the Moslem must be careful not to execute such in this present age and time because it has become illegal, being against the law of equity (as no one comes with clean hands) and the laws of the land. So also, even if Christians believe in the laws of the Old Testament, they cannot execute them in this present age and time for the same reasons. When Jesus declared that every single word of OT laws would be fulfilled, He didn't mean that they would be fulfilled by man, but by God at the White Throne Judgment.

In conclusion, those Bible passages you quote would rather be treated as executable by God alone as true judgment belongs to God. Now, I say, go and preach these to the Takfiris...

proo212:

Quoting from your post again......You said you never misquoted and I insist that you misquoted....

OH I GOT WHAT U SAID THE VERSE U QUOTED IS CONTINUATION OF QURAN 6:151 I WANT TO INCLUDE QURAN CHAPTER 5 BEFORE BUT LATER REMOVE IT.......I DONT KNOW I DIDNT DELETE ALL...........SO IT IS TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR.........THANKS FOR THE OBSERVATION

proo212: @Abdulsalam20



I'm sure we'll argue till eternity that Surah 9 abrogates this chapter since this was the second to the last verse revealed. I will not even quote the hadiths (numerous) justifying compulsion.

I leave you with the same Islamic Law.....If you read through, you will notice that it uses Surah 9:29 and not 2:256....



Perhaps, you should have a discussion with a PhD holder in Islamic Studies to set you straight!!!

SORRY TO ASK ARE YOU A MUSLIM OR CHRISTIAN SIR


IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN AND YOU HAVE A PHD IN ISLAMIC STUDIES THAT DOESNT MEAN YOU UNDERSTAND ISLAM MORE THAN I DO
CONCERNING SURAH9:29

SOME PEOPLE HAVE FALSELY CONCLUDED FROM VERSE 9:29, THAT MUSLIMS ARE COMMANDED TO ATTACK ALL NON-MUSLIMS UNTIL
THEY PAY MONEY. IN FACT, SUCH AN INTERPRETATION IS COMPLETELY FALSE AND CONTRADICTS AUTHENTIC ISLAMIC TEACHINGS.
COMMENTING ON THIS VERSE, SHAYKH JALAL ABUALRUB WRITES:
THESE AYAT (QURANIC VERSES) STRESS THE NECESSITY OF FIGHTING AGAINST THE PEOPLE
OF THE SCRIPTURE, BUT UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS? WE PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED THE FACT
THAT THE ISLAMIC STATE IS NOT PERMITTED TO ATTACK NON-MUSLIMS WHO ARE NOT
HOSTILE TO ISLAM, WHO DO NOT OPPRESS MUSLIMS, OR TRY TO CONVERT MUSLIMS BY
FORCE FROM THEIR RELIGION, OR EXPEL THEM FROM THEIR LANDS, OR WAGE WAR AGAINST
THEM, OR PREPARE FOR ATTACKS AGAINST THEM. IF ANY OF THESE OFFENSES OCCURS,
HOWEVER, MUSLIMS ARE PERMITTED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND PROTECT THEIR
RELIGION. MUSLIMS ARE NOT PERMITTED TO ATTACK NON-MUSLIMS WHO SIGNED PEACE
PACTS WITH THEM, OR NON-MUSLIMS WHO LIVE UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THE ISLAMIC
STATE. ( ABUALRUB, HOLY WARS, CRUSADES, JIHAD)
LIKEWISE, THE FOLLOWING FATWA POINTS OUT THAT MUSLIMS CANNOT ATTACK A PEACEFUL NON-MUSLIM COUNTRY:
QUESTION : IS IT AN OBLIGATION OF AN ISLAMIC STATE TO ATTACK THE NEIGHBORING NON-
MUSLIM STATES AND COLLECT ‘JIZYA’ FROM THEM? DO WE SEE THIS IN THE EXAMPLE OF
THE RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPHS WHO FOUGHT AGAINST THE ROMAN AND PERSIAN EMPIRES
WITHOUT ANY AGGRESSION INITIATING FROM THEM?
ANSWERED BY SHEIKH HÂNÎ AL-JUBAYR, JUDGE AT THE JEDDAH SUPREME COURT
IF THE NON-MUSLIM COUNTRY DID NOT ATTACK THE MUSLIM ONE NOR MOBILIZE ITSELF TO
PREVENT THE PRACTICE AND SPREAD OF ISLAM, NOR TRANSGRESS AGAINST MOSQUES,
NOR WORK TO OPPRESS THE MUSLIM PEOPLE IN THEIR RIGHT TO PROFESS THEIR FAITH AND
DECRY UNBELIEF, THEN IT IS NOT FOR THE MUSLIM COUNTRY TO ATTACK THAT COUNTRY.
JIHÂD OF A MILITARY NATURE WAS ONLY PERMITTED TO HELP MUSLIMS DEFEND THEIR
RELIGION AND REMOVE OPPRESSION FROM THE PEOPLE.
THE PERSIANS AND ROMANS DID IN FACT AGGRESS AGAINST ISLAM AND ATTACK THE
MUSLIMS FIRST.
THE CHOSROE OF PERSIA HAD GONE SO FAR AS TO ORDER HIS COMMANDER IN YEMEN
SPECIFICALLY TO KILL THE PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM). THE ROMANS MOBILIZED
THEIR FORCES TO FIGHT THE PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM), AND THE MUSLIMS
CONFRONTED THEM IN THE BATTLES OF MU’TAH AND TABÛK DURING THE PROPHET'S
LIFETIME

THE ABOVE FATWA REFERS TO THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT IN WHICH THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) FOUGHT
AGAINST OTHER NATIONS. THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID NOT INITIATE AGRESSION AGAINST ANYONE, RATHER HE AND HIS FOLLOWERS
WERE UNDER ATTACK FROM ALL WHO SOUGHT TO CRUSH THE NEW ISLAMIC STATE. THE FIRST HOSTILITIES BETWEEN THE MUSLIMS AND
THE ROMAN EMPIRE BEGAN WHEN THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD'S MESSENGER TO THE GHASSAN TRIBE (A GOVERNATE OF THE
ROMAN EMPIRE), AL-HARITH BIN UMAYR AL-AZDI, WAS TIED UP AND BEHEADED (AL-MUBARAKPURI, AR-RAHEEQ AL-MAKHTUM ,
P. 383). THE KILLING OF A DIPLOMAT WAS AN OPEN ACT OF WAR, AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SENT AN ARMED FORCE TO
CONFRONT THE TRIBE, BUT THE ROMAN EMPIRE BROUGHT IN REINFORCEMENTS AND THE RESULTING CONFLICT, KNOWN AS THE BATTLE OF
MUT'AH, WAS A DEFEAT FOR THE MUSLIMS. ONLY AFTER THIS DID SUBSEQUENT BATTLES BETWEEN THE MUSLIMS AND THE ROMAN
EMPIRE OCCUR, AND THE MUSLIMS EMERGED VICTORIOUS. LIKEWISE, AS MENTIONED IN THE ABOVE FATWA, HOSTILTIIES BETWEEN
THE MUSLIMS AND THE PERSIANS ONLY BEGAN AFTER THE PERSIAN EMPEROR CHOSROE ORDERED HIS GOVERNOR IN YEMEN
BADHAM, TO KILL THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH, ALTHOUGH HIS EFFORTS WERE THWARTED WHEN THE LATTER ACCEPTED ISLAM.
OTHER NON-MUSLIM GROUPS, SUCH AS THOSE IN MADINAH, ALSO INITIATED HOSTILITIES AGAINST THE MUSLIMS DESPITE PEACE
TREATIES AS SHAYKH SAYYID SABIQ WRITES:
AS FOR FIGHTING THE JEWS (PEOPLE OF THE SCRIPTURE), THEY HAD CONDUCTED A PEACE
PACT WITH THE MESSENGER AFTER HE MIGRATED TO MADINAH. SOON AFTERWARDS, THEY
BETRAYED THE PEACE PACT AND JOINED FORCES WITH THE PAGANS AND THE HYPOCRITES
AGAINST MUSLIMS. THEY ALSO FOUGHT AGAINST MUSLIMS DURING THE BATTLE OF
A`HZAB , THEN ALLAH REVEALED… [AND HE CITES VERSE 9:29] (SAYYID SABIQ, FIQHU
AS-SUNNAH , VOL. 3, P. 80)
IN LIGHT OF THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT OF THIS VERSE, IT BECOMES VERY CLEAR THAT THE VERSE WAS REVEALED IN CONNECTION WITH
AGRESSION INITIATED AGAINST MUSLIMS. AS DR. JAMAL BADAWI VERY ACCURATELY CONCLUDES WITH REGARD TO VERSE 9:29 AND
SIMILAR VERSES:
ALL OF THESE VERSES, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, IF STUDIED CAREFULLY, ADDRESS AGGRESSION
AND OPPRESSION COMMITTED AGAINST MUSLIMS AT THE TIME OF THE PROPHET (PEACE
AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM), WHETHER BY IDOLATROUS ARABS, SOME OF THE JEWISH
TRIBES IN MADINAH, OR BY SOME CHRISTIANS. ( SOURCE)
THEREFORE, THE COMMAND TO FIGHT IN VERSE 9:29 RELATES TO THOSE NON-MUSLIMS WHO COMMIT AGRESSION AND NOT THOSE
WHO ARE COMMITTED TO LIVE IN PEACE. THE VERSE IS SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CONDITIONS THAT WERE APPARENT WHEN IT WAS
IMPLEMENTED IN THE TIME OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH, AS SHAYKH SAYYID SABIQ WRITES:
WHAT WE HAVE STATED MAKES IT CLEAR THAT ISLAM DID NOT ALLOW THE INITIATING OF
HOSTILITIES, EXCEPT TO: 1. REPEL AGGRESSION; 2. PROTECT ISLAMIC PROPAGATION; 3.
DETER FITNAH AND OPPRESSION AND ENSURE FREEDOM OF RELIGION. IN SUCH CASES,
FIGHTING BECOMES A NECESSITY OF THE RELIGION AND ONE OF ITS SACRED
ORDAINMENTS. IT IS THEN CALLED, ‘JIHAD’. (SAYYID SABIQ, FIQHU AS-SUNNAH , VOL.
3, P. 81)
THE VERSE THEN PROCEEDS TO MENTION SOME ISSUES RELATING TO THE ISLAMIC STATE, AND GOVERNING NON-MUSLIM CITIZENS OF
THE ISLAMIC STATE. DR. MAHER HATHOUT COMMENTS ON THE REGULATIONS IN VERSE 9:29:
FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS AN ESSENTIAL ASPECT IN AN ISLAMIC STATE. ONE OF THE FIVE
PILLARS OF ISLAM IS ZAKAT (ALMSGIVING). THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (CHRISTIANS AND
JEWS) ARE NOT OBLIGED TO PAY THE ISLAMIC ZAKAT THAT IS SPENT BY THE STATE FOR
SOCIAL NECESSITIES AND STATE AFFAIRS AS DEFINED IN THE QURAN (SEE 9:60). BUT
THEY MUST PAY OTHER TAXES TO SHARE IN THE STATE BUDGET. IF THEY REFUSE TO PAY
THIS TAX TO THE STATE AND REBEL AGAINST THE STATE, THEN IT IS THE OBLIGATION OF THE
STATE TO CONFRONT THEM UNTIL THEY PAY IT. THIS IS WHAT CALIPH ABU BAKR DID AFTER
THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET, WHEN SOME PEOPLE REFUSED TO PAY ZAKAT . (HATHOUT,
JIHAD VS. TERRORISM; US MULTIMEDIA VERA INTERNATIONAL, 2002, P.53)
THE VERSE MENTIONS JIZYA, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATELY MISUNDERSTOOD BY SOME PEOPLE. LIKE ANY NATION, THE ISLAMIC
GOVERNMENT REQUIRES ITS CITIZENS TO PAY TAXES IN RETURN FOR ITS SERVICES. SINCE MUSLIMS PAY THE ZAKAT, THE NON-MUSLIM
CITIZENS ARE REQUIRED TO PAY JIZYA (FOR MORE INFORMATION ON JIZYA, PLEASE REFER TO JIZYA IN ISLAM AND JIZYAH AND NON-
MUSLIM MINORITIES ). DR. MONQIZ AS-SAQQAR WRITES CONCERNING THE JIZYA TAX:
THE SUM OF JIZYA WAS NEVER LARGE TO THE EXTENT THAT THE MEN WERE UNABLE TO
PAY. RATHER, IT WAS ALWAYS AVAILABLE AND REASONABLE. DURING THE REIGN OF THE
PROPHET, PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM, JIZYA NEVER EXCEEDED ONE DINAR
ANNUALLY AND IT NEVER EXCEEDED FOUR DINARS UNDER THE UMAYYAD RULE.
( SOURCE)
SHAYKH ABU'L-HASAN AL-MAWARDI (D. 1058CE) EXPLICITLY POINTS OUT THAT THE JIZYA SHOULD BE EXACTED IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE MEANS OF THE PEOPLE, AND THE IMAM SHOULD JUDGE THE CONCLUDE THE AMOUNT TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE LEADERS
OF THOSE BEING TAXED:
THE FUQAHA (JURISTS) DIFFER AS TO THE AMOUNT OF THE JIZYA. ABU HANIFA
CONSIDERS THAT THOSE SUBJECT TO THIS TAX ARE OF THREE KINDS: THE RICH FROM WHOM
FORTY-EIGHT DIRHAMS ARE TAKEN; THOSE OF AVERAGE MEANS FROM WHOM TWENTY
FOUR ARE TAKEN, AND THE POOR FROM WHOM TWELVE DIRHAMS ARE TAKEN: HE THUS
STIPULATED THE MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM AMOUNTS AND PROHIBITS ANY FURTHER
JUDGEMENT ON BEHALF OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS COLLECTION. MALIK, HOWEVER,
DOES NOT FIX ITS MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM AMOUNT AND CONSIDERS THAT THOSE
RESPONSIBLE SHOULD MAKE THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT AS TO THE MINIMUM AND
MAXIMUM. ASH-SHAFI'I CONSIDERS THAT THE MINIMUM IS A DINAR, AND THAT IT IS
NOT PERMITTED TO GO BELOW THIS WHILE HE DOES NOT STIPULATE THE MAXIMUM, THE
LATTER BEING DEPENDANT ON THE IJTIHAD (JUDGEMENT) OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE: THE
IMAM, HOWEVER, SHOULD TRY TO HARMONISE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT AMOUNTS, OR TO
EXACT AN AMOUNT IN ACCORDANCE WITH PEOPLE'S MEANS. IF HE HAS USED HIS
JUDGEMENT TO CONCLUDE THE CONTRACT OD JIZYAH TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE LEADERS
OF THE PEOPLE BEING TAXED, THEN IT BECOMES BINDING ON ALL OF THEM AND THEIR
DESCENDANTS, GENERATION AFTER GENERATION, AND A LEADER MAY NOT AFTERWARDS
CHANGE THIS AMUNT, BE IT TO DECREASE IT OR INCREASE IT. (AL-MAWARDI, AL-AHKAM
AS-SULTANIYYAH , TA-HA PUBLISHERS LTD. 1996, PP. 209-210)
HENCE, THE LAWS OF ISLAM FORBID MUSLIMS FROM OPRESSING NON-MUSLIMS AND COMMAND THEM TO TREAT OTHERS WITH
JUSTICE AND COMPASSION. IN FACT, THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH HIMSELF FORBADE MUSLIMS FROM HARMING NON-MUSLIM
CITIZENS OF AN ISLAMIC STATE OR ANY NON-MUSLIM WITH WHOM THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT OF PEACE, AS HE SAID,
" THE ONE WHO WRONGS A COVENANTER OR IMPAIRS HIS RIGHT OR OVERWORKS HIM OR
FORCIBLY TAKES SOMETHING FROM HIM, I WILL BE HIS PROSECUTOR ON THE DAY OF
JUDGMENT. (SUNAN ABI DAWUD 170/3 NO. 3052, SUNAN AN-NASA'I 25/8 NO.
2749, AND VERIFIED BY AL-ALBANI NO. 2626).
IN CONCLUSION, VERSE 9:29 COMMANDS MUSLIMS TO FIGHT AGAINST ONLY THOSE WHO INITIATE AGRESSION AS ILLUSTATED BY ITS
HISTORICAL CONTEXT. MUSLIMS MAY ONLY FIGHT UNDER STRICT CONDITIONS, AND ARE COMMANDED TO LIVE PEACEFULLY WITH
PEACEFUL NON-MUSLIM NEIGHBORS.
SIMILAR NARRATION
BUKHARI: GOD'S APOSTLE SAID, I HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO FIGHT WITH THE PEOPLE TILL
THEY SAY, NONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE WORSHIPPED BUT GOD. (VOLUME 4, BOOK 52,
NUMBER 196)
WITH REGARDS TO THE NARRATION, ONLY PART OF IT HAS BEEN QUOTED, AND THE FULL TEXT READS:
AND THE PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM) SAID, "I HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO FIGHT THE
PEOPLE UNTIL THEY TESTIFY THAT THERE IS NO DEITY WORTHY OF WORSHIP OTHER THAN
ALLAH AND THAT MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH, ESTABLISH THE PRAYER, AND
PAY ZAKAT, AND IF THEY DO THIS, THEN THEIR BLOOD AND MONEY SHALL BE PROTECTED
FROM ME, EXCEPT BY AN ISLAMIC RIGHT, AND THEIR ACCOUNT WILL BE WITH ALLAH.
THIS NARRATION LISTS SOME OF THE PILLARS OF ISLAM THAT MUSLIMS MUST ADHERE TO. THE FIGHTING BEING ORDAINED HERE REFERS
TO THE ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS AND REGULATIONS WITHIN AN ISLAMIC STATE. JUST AS MODERN GOVERNMENTS ENFORCE THEIR LEGAL
POLICIES, SO TO DOES THE ISLAMIC STATE. THESE LEGAL POLICIES REFER TO MUSLIMS PAYING THEIR ZAKAT (CHARITY TAX) AND
ABIDING BY THE LAWS IN AN ISLAMIC STATE. THOSE WHO UNDERSTOOD THE SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE
UPON HIM) THE BEST, WERE HIS COMPANIONS, AND WE CAN EXAMINE THEIR APPLICATION OF THE SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET
MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) TO DERIVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING. WE FIND THAT AFTER THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET
MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM), MANY HYPOCRITES WHO HAD PRETENDED TO BE MUSLIM BEGAN TO TURN AWAY AND LEAVE
THEIR RELIGIOUS DUTIES, ONE EXAMPLE WAS ZAKAT (THE CHARITY TAX). THEY WANTED TO COMPROMISE THE COMMANDS OF GOD. IT
WAS THEN THAT ABU BAKR, THE FIRST CALIPH AND THE CALIPH OF THAT TIME, CITED THIS NARRATION TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT A
COMPROMISE WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED AND HE WOULD FIGHT THEM UNTIL THEY AGREED TO FOLLOW ISLAM IN FULL. THE FIGHTING THAT
RESULTED WAS KNOWN AS THE RIDDAH WARS. SIMILARLY, WE CAN SEE THAT TODAY'S GOVERNMENTS WOULD NOT TOLERATE IT IF A
CITIZEN REFUSED TO PAY TAX OR ABIDE BY THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY. IF ONE LIVES IN A STATE OR COUNTRY THEY MUST ABIDE BY THE
REGULATIONS TO ENSURE A SECURE AND HEALTHY SOCIETY. WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THE 'PEOPLE' REFERRED TO IN THIS NARRATION DOES
NOT REFER TO ALL OF HUMANITY. AS SHAYKH AHMED IBN TAYMIYYAH SAYS:
“ IT REFERS TO FIGHTING THOSE WHO ARE WAGING WAR , WHOM ALLAH HAS PERMITTED US
TO FIGHT. IT DOES NOT REFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE A COVENANT WITH US WITH WHOM
ALLAH COMMANDS US TO FULFILL OUR COVENANT.” (MAJMU` AL-FATAWA 19/20)
CLEARLY, THIS NARRATION DOES NOT REFER TO IMPOSING ISLAM UPON NON-MUSLIMS, SINCE THE QUR'AN EXPLICITLY STATES:
2:256 THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION...
ALSO, WE HAVE ALREADY DEALT WITH THE CLAIMS THAT THIS VERSE WAS ABROGATED UNDER OUR DISCUSSION OF VERSE 9:5. ONCE
UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR CORRECT CONTEXT, THESE VERSES AND NARRATIONS BECOME CLEAR.

proo212: @Abdulsalam20



I'm sure we'll argue till eternity that Surah 9 abrogates this chapter since this was the second to the last verse revealed. I will not even quote the hadiths (numerous) justifying compulsion.

I leave you with the same Islamic Law.....If you read through, you will notice that it uses Surah 9:29 and not 2:256....



Perhaps, you should have a discussion with a PhD holder in Islamic Studies to set you straight!!!

bros, God bless you. This abdusalam20 dont even understand himself.

Abdulsalam20: THE ABOVE FATWA REFERS TO THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT IN WHICH THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) FOUGHT
AGAINST OTHER NATIONS. THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID NOT INITIATE AGRESSION AGAINST ANYONE, RATHER HE AND HIS FOLLOWERS
WERE UNDER ATTACK FROM ALL WHO SOUGHT TO CRUSH THE NEW ISLAMIC STATE. THE FIRST HOSTILITIES BETWEEN THE MUSLIMS AND
THE ROMAN EMPIRE BEGAN WHEN THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD'S MESSENGER TO THE GHASSAN TRIBE (A GOVERNATE OF THE
ROMAN EMPIRE), AL-HARITH BIN UMAYR AL-AZDI, WAS TIED UP AND BEHEADED (AL-MUBARAKPURI, AR-RAHEEQ AL-MAKHTUM ,
P. 383). THE KILLING OF A DIPLOMAT WAS AN OPEN ACT OF WAR, AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SENT AN ARMED FORCE TO
CONFRONT THE TRIBE, BUT THE ROMAN EMPIRE BROUGHT IN REINFORCEMENTS AND THE RESULTING CONFLICT, KNOWN AS THE BATTLE OF
MUT'AH, WAS A DEFEAT FOR THE MUSLIMS. ONLY AFTER THIS DID SUBSEQUENT BATTLES BETWEEN THE MUSLIMS AND THE ROMAN
EMPIRE OCCUR, AND THE MUSLIMS EMERGED VICTORIOUS. LIKEWISE, AS MENTIONED IN THE ABOVE FATWA, HOSTILTIIES BETWEEN
THE MUSLIMS AND THE PERSIANS ONLY BEGAN AFTER THE PERSIAN EMPEROR CHOSROE ORDERED HIS GOVERNOR IN YEMEN
BADHAM, TO KILL THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH, ALTHOUGH HIS EFFORTS WERE THWARTED WHEN THE LATTER ACCEPTED ISLAM.
OTHER NON-MUSLIM GROUPS, SUCH AS THOSE IN MADINAH, ALSO INITIATED HOSTILITIES AGAINST THE MUSLIMS DESPITE PEACE
TREATIES AS SHAYKH SAYYID SABIQ WRITES:
AS FOR FIGHTING THE JEWS (PEOPLE OF THE SCRIPTURE), THEY HAD CONDUCTED A PEACE
PACT WITH THE MESSENGER AFTER HE MIGRATED TO MADINAH. SOON AFTERWARDS, THEY
BETRAYED THE PEACE PACT AND JOINED FORCES WITH THE PAGANS AND THE HYPOCRITES
AGAINST MUSLIMS. THEY ALSO FOUGHT AGAINST MUSLIMS DURING THE BATTLE OF
A`HZAB , THEN ALLAH REVEALED… [AND HE CITES VERSE 9:29] (SAYYID SABIQ, FIQHU
AS-SUNNAH , VOL. 3, P. 80)
IN LIGHT OF THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT OF THIS VERSE, IT BECOMES VERY CLEAR THAT THE VERSE WAS REVEALED IN CONNECTION WITH
AGRESSION INITIATED AGAINST MUSLIMS. AS DR. JAMAL BADAWI VERY ACCURATELY CONCLUDES WITH REGARD TO VERSE 9:29 AND
SIMILAR VERSES:
ALL OF THESE VERSES, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, IF STUDIED CAREFULLY, ADDRESS AGGRESSION
AND OPPRESSION COMMITTED AGAINST MUSLIMS AT THE TIME OF THE PROPHET (PEACE
AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM), WHETHER BY IDOLATROUS ARABS, SOME OF THE JEWISH
TRIBES IN MADINAH, OR BY SOME CHRISTIANS. ( SOURCE)
THEREFORE, THE COMMAND TO FIGHT IN VERSE 9:29 RELATES TO THOSE NON-MUSLIMS WHO COMMIT AGRESSION AND NOT THOSE
WHO ARE COMMITTED TO LIVE IN PEACE. THE VERSE IS SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CONDITIONS THAT WERE APPARENT WHEN IT WAS
IMPLEMENTED IN THE TIME OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH, AS SHAYKH SAYYID SABIQ WRITES:
WHAT WE HAVE STATED MAKES IT CLEAR THAT ISLAM DID NOT ALLOW THE INITIATING OF
HOSTILITIES, EXCEPT TO: 1. REPEL AGGRESSION; 2. PROTECT ISLAMIC PROPAGATION; 3.
DETER FITNAH AND OPPRESSION AND ENSURE FREEDOM OF RELIGION. IN SUCH CASES,
FIGHTING BECOMES A NECESSITY OF THE RELIGION AND ONE OF ITS SACRED
ORDAINMENTS. IT IS THEN CALLED, ‘JIHAD’. (SAYYID SABIQ, FIQHU AS-SUNNAH , VOL.
3, P. 81)
THE VERSE THEN PROCEEDS TO MENTION SOME ISSUES RELATING TO THE ISLAMIC STATE, AND GOVERNING NON-MUSLIM CITIZENS OF
THE ISLAMIC STATE. DR. MAHER HATHOUT COMMENTS ON THE REGULATIONS IN VERSE 9:29:
FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS AN ESSENTIAL ASPECT IN AN ISLAMIC STATE. ONE OF THE FIVE
PILLARS OF ISLAM IS ZAKAT (ALMSGIVING). THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK (CHRISTIANS AND
JEWS) ARE NOT OBLIGED TO PAY THE ISLAMIC ZAKAT THAT IS SPENT BY THE STATE FOR
SOCIAL NECESSITIES AND STATE AFFAIRS AS DEFINED IN THE QURAN (SEE 9:60). BUT
THEY MUST PAY OTHER TAXES TO SHARE IN THE STATE BUDGET. IF THEY REFUSE TO PAY
THIS TAX TO THE STATE AND REBEL AGAINST THE STATE, THEN IT IS THE OBLIGATION OF THE
STATE TO CONFRONT THEM UNTIL THEY PAY IT. THIS IS WHAT CALIPH ABU BAKR DID AFTER
THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET, WHEN SOME PEOPLE REFUSED TO PAY ZAKAT . (HATHOUT,
JIHAD VS. TERRORISM; US MULTIMEDIA VERA INTERNATIONAL, 2002, P.53)
THE VERSE MENTIONS JIZYA, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATELY MISUNDERSTOOD BY SOME PEOPLE. LIKE ANY NATION, THE ISLAMIC
GOVERNMENT REQUIRES ITS CITIZENS TO PAY TAXES IN RETURN FOR ITS SERVICES. SINCE MUSLIMS PAY THE ZAKAT, THE NON-MUSLIM
CITIZENS ARE REQUIRED TO PAY JIZYA (FOR MORE INFORMATION ON JIZYA, PLEASE REFER TO JIZYA IN ISLAM AND JIZYAH AND NON-
MUSLIM MINORITIES ). DR. MONQIZ AS-SAQQAR WRITES CONCERNING THE JIZYA TAX:
THE SUM OF JIZYA WAS NEVER LARGE TO THE EXTENT THAT THE MEN WERE UNABLE TO
PAY. RATHER, IT WAS ALWAYS AVAILABLE AND REASONABLE. DURING THE REIGN OF THE
PROPHET, PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM, JIZYA NEVER EXCEEDED ONE DINAR
ANNUALLY AND IT NEVER EXCEEDED FOUR DINARS UNDER THE UMAYYAD RULE.
( SOURCE)
SHAYKH ABU'L-HASAN AL-MAWARDI (D. 1058CE) EXPLICITLY POINTS OUT THAT THE JIZYA SHOULD BE EXACTED IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE MEANS OF THE PEOPLE, AND THE IMAM SHOULD JUDGE THE CONCLUDE THE AMOUNT TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE LEADERS
OF THOSE BEING TAXED:
THE FUQAHA (JURISTS) DIFFER AS TO THE AMOUNT OF THE JIZYA. ABU HANIFA
CONSIDERS THAT THOSE SUBJECT TO THIS TAX ARE OF THREE KINDS: THE RICH FROM WHOM
FORTY-EIGHT DIRHAMS ARE TAKEN; THOSE OF AVERAGE MEANS FROM WHOM TWENTY
FOUR ARE TAKEN, AND THE POOR FROM WHOM TWELVE DIRHAMS ARE TAKEN: HE THUS
STIPULATED THE MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM AMOUNTS AND PROHIBITS ANY FURTHER
JUDGEMENT ON BEHALF OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS COLLECTION. MALIK, HOWEVER,
DOES NOT FIX ITS MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM AMOUNT AND CONSIDERS THAT THOSE
RESPONSIBLE SHOULD MAKE THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT AS TO THE MINIMUM AND
MAXIMUM. ASH-SHAFI'I CONSIDERS THAT THE MINIMUM IS A DINAR, AND THAT IT IS
NOT PERMITTED TO GO BELOW THIS WHILE HE DOES NOT STIPULATE THE MAXIMUM, THE
LATTER BEING DEPENDANT ON THE IJTIHAD (JUDGEMENT) OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE: THE
IMAM, HOWEVER, SHOULD TRY TO HARMONISE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT AMOUNTS, OR TO
EXACT AN AMOUNT IN ACCORDANCE WITH PEOPLE'S MEANS. IF HE HAS USED HIS
JUDGEMENT TO CONCLUDE THE CONTRACT OD JIZYAH TO THE SATISFACTION OF THE LEADERS
OF THE PEOPLE BEING TAXED, THEN IT BECOMES BINDING ON ALL OF THEM AND THEIR
DESCENDANTS, GENERATION AFTER GENERATION, AND A LEADER MAY NOT AFTERWARDS
CHANGE THIS AMUNT, BE IT TO DECREASE IT OR INCREASE IT. (AL-MAWARDI, AL-AHKAM
AS-SULTANIYYAH , TA-HA PUBLISHERS LTD. 1996, PP. 209-210)
HENCE, THE LAWS OF ISLAM FORBID MUSLIMS FROM OPRESSING NON-MUSLIMS AND COMMAND THEM TO TREAT OTHERS WITH
JUSTICE AND COMPASSION. IN FACT, THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH HIMSELF FORBADE MUSLIMS FROM HARMING NON-MUSLIM
CITIZENS OF AN ISLAMIC STATE OR ANY NON-MUSLIM WITH WHOM THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT OF PEACE, AS HE SAID,
" THE ONE WHO WRONGS A COVENANTER OR IMPAIRS HIS RIGHT OR OVERWORKS HIM OR
FORCIBLY TAKES SOMETHING FROM HIM, I WILL BE HIS PROSECUTOR ON THE DAY OF
JUDGMENT. (SUNAN ABI DAWUD 170/3 NO. 3052, SUNAN AN-NASA'I 25/8 NO.
2749, AND VERIFIED BY AL-ALBANI NO. 2626).
IN CONCLUSION, VERSE 9:29 COMMANDS MUSLIMS TO FIGHT AGAINST ONLY THOSE WHO INITIATE AGRESSION AS ILLUSTATED BY ITS
HISTORICAL CONTEXT. MUSLIMS MAY ONLY FIGHT UNDER STRICT CONDITIONS, AND ARE COMMANDED TO LIVE PEACEFULLY WITH
PEACEFUL NON-MUSLIM NEIGHBORS.
SIMILAR NARRATION
BUKHARI: GOD'S APOSTLE SAID, I HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO FIGHT WITH THE PEOPLE TILL
THEY SAY, NONE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE WORSHIPPED BUT GOD. (VOLUME 4, BOOK 52,
NUMBER 196)
WITH REGARDS TO THE NARRATION, ONLY PART OF IT HAS BEEN QUOTED, AND THE FULL TEXT READS:
AND THE PROPHET (PEACE BE UPON HIM) SAID, "I HAVE BEEN ORDERED TO FIGHT THE
PEOPLE UNTIL THEY TESTIFY THAT THERE IS NO DEITY WORTHY OF WORSHIP OTHER THAN
ALLAH AND THAT MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH, ESTABLISH THE PRAYER, AND
PAY ZAKAT, AND IF THEY DO THIS, THEN THEIR BLOOD AND MONEY SHALL BE PROTECTED
FROM ME, EXCEPT BY AN ISLAMIC RIGHT, AND THEIR ACCOUNT WILL BE WITH ALLAH.
THIS NARRATION LISTS SOME OF THE PILLARS OF ISLAM THAT MUSLIMS MUST ADHERE TO. THE FIGHTING BEING ORDAINED HERE REFERS
TO THE ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS AND REGULATIONS WITHIN AN ISLAMIC STATE. JUST AS MODERN GOVERNMENTS ENFORCE THEIR LEGAL
POLICIES, SO TO DOES THE ISLAMIC STATE. THESE LEGAL POLICIES REFER TO MUSLIMS PAYING THEIR ZAKAT (CHARITY TAX) AND
ABIDING BY THE LAWS IN AN ISLAMIC STATE. THOSE WHO UNDERSTOOD THE SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE
UPON HIM) THE BEST, WERE HIS COMPANIONS, AND WE CAN EXAMINE THEIR APPLICATION OF THE SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET
MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) TO DERIVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING. WE FIND THAT AFTER THE DEATH OF THE PROPHET
MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM), MANY HYPOCRITES WHO HAD PRETENDED TO BE MUSLIM BEGAN TO TURN AWAY AND LEAVE
THEIR RELIGIOUS DUTIES, ONE EXAMPLE WAS ZAKAT (THE CHARITY TAX). THEY WANTED TO COMPROMISE THE COMMANDS OF GOD. IT
WAS THEN THAT ABU BAKR, THE FIRST CALIPH AND THE CALIPH OF THAT TIME, CITED THIS NARRATION TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT A
COMPROMISE WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED AND HE WOULD FIGHT THEM UNTIL THEY AGREED TO FOLLOW ISLAM IN FULL. THE FIGHTING THAT
RESULTED WAS KNOWN AS THE RIDDAH WARS. SIMILARLY, WE CAN SEE THAT TODAY'S GOVERNMENTS WOULD NOT TOLERATE IT IF A
CITIZEN REFUSED TO PAY TAX OR ABIDE BY THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY. IF ONE LIVES IN A STATE OR COUNTRY THEY MUST ABIDE BY THE
REGULATIONS TO ENSURE A SECURE AND HEALTHY SOCIETY. WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THE 'PEOPLE' REFERRED TO IN THIS NARRATION DOES
NOT REFER TO ALL OF HUMANITY. AS SHAYKH AHMED IBN TAYMIYYAH SAYS:
“ IT REFERS TO FIGHTING THOSE WHO ARE WAGING WAR , WHOM ALLAH HAS PERMITTED US
TO FIGHT. IT DOES NOT REFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE A COVENANT WITH US WITH WHOM
ALLAH COMMANDS US TO FULFILL OUR COVENANT.” (MAJMU` AL-FATAWA 19/20)
CLEARLY, THIS NARRATION DOES NOT REFER TO IMPOSING ISLAM UPON NON-MUSLIMS, SINCE THE QUR'AN EXPLICITLY STATES:
2:256 THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION...
ALSO, WE HAVE ALREADY DEALT WITH THE CLAIMS THAT THIS VERSE WAS ABROGATED UNDER OUR DISCUSSION OF VERSE 9:5. ONCE
UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR CORRECT CONTEXT, THESE VERSES AND NARRATIONS BECOME CLEAR.

These are outdated by the age in which we live. I'll sum it all in one sentence, "Why fight at all in the 21st century, if your God is great (akbir) and has the capacity to fight for you, and not wait for the El Madhi to come and fight for you as the Islamic writings have predicted?"

yazach:
YOU: They same way some hypocrites does. Anytime you see a good muslim trying to state his/her clear picture regarding terrorism, you see Christians with the aim of blackmailing Islam responding as if this muslims is telling lie. But I have read some of the muslims responds (regarding act of terrorism) on this particular thread that will ever support the act rather you will see Christians posting Quarnic verses and give them their suited meanings

ME: I say, that's simply human nature.

YOU: A sane and peace loving entity will never support involvement of CAN leader in the scenario even if we assumed he wasn’t aware, we are in a delicate time in this country when it comes to religion.
You can read why CATHOLIC said they withdrew from CAN. They said and I quote “we notice that CAN is no more promoting peace which oppose the aim and objective of the association”

ME: I'm out of that for now. CAN president is not my Lord or Savior and he alone can account for whatever he does, not me.

YOU: I bet it if I ever said they are not muslims but rather muslims who doesn’t understand the teachings of their religion. But you can imagine a muslim killing muslims in the name of religion!!! Does that make sense, Christian kill Christian in the name of religion
I notice some statements like ”because what the practice is found in Qura’an”, does that mean they are acting according to Qura’an? Because I read your post citing some verses also, if you have that understanding too, try to post the verses one by one and let us do justice to it

ME: That would be like tasking me too much. you are the Muslim; you do it sir.

YOU: My brother, am very sure till today Christians do commit atrocities of the highest order only that cover-ups from media were many. just Google it “Atrocities of Christians in the 21st century”
This does not mean am in support of any crime act but to tell people that if a rotten egg is found in a dozen that does not means all the egg are alike or the crate connecting them mandate their rottenness

ME: I believe that's history. Now, lets get back to the 21st century and the present danger we face from the Takfiris.

YOU: I will not engage you regarding Almajiris but I will still repeat it that:
So many things are wrong and that is the reason why the sultanate have said and I quote “BAD PEOPLE ARE PERPETRATORS OF EVIL, LET THE GOOD ONES COME TOGETHER AND FIGHT THE BAD ONES”

ME: Almajiris, area boys, winos, drug addicts, homeless, etc... we have them all everywhere waiting as veritable tools in the hands of revolutionists and renegades. But whose fault? The society that created them in spite of having had so much wealth passed through their coffers. The leaders have private jets, the poor can't even serve two meals a day. God will judge when the time comes.

YOU: LASTLY, NO GOOD MUSLIM SUPPORT TERRORISM AND NO SANE HUMAN BEIGN WILL DO

M: I feel you!

malvisguy212: ok,thank you. But you do understand that they are not active as boko haram and the rest, or am i wrong? When last they carry attack on innocent citizen ?

They are active to date.

HolyHolla:

These are outdated by the age in which we live. I'll sum it all in one sentence, "Why fight at all in the 21st century, if your God is great (akbir) and has the capacity to fight for you, and not wait for the El Madhi to come and fight for you as the quran has predicted?"

good qustion,just ready to read a very long note from him,the guy is adicted to copy and paste long note. In most of his post, he was calling christians antichrist, i ask him" what is christ? If you are not an antichrist, dos that mean you believe in christ?" the guy just went to copy and paste long note for me, the answer he gave me was funny, he was trying to say allah is christ.

Thanks Bro. I have answers to long copy and paste posts too.

malvisguy212: good qustion,just ready to read a very long note from him,the guy is adicted to copy and paste long note. In most of his post, he was calling christians antichrist, i ask him" what is christ? If you are not an antichrist, dos that mean you believe in christ?" the guy just went to copy and paste long note for me, the answer he gave me was funny, he was trying to say allah is christ.

I wanted Abdulsalam to give me some tangible defence that can actually throw me off balance but I wait and wait.....

In the meantime, Mr Abdulsalam, I am not muslim, not sure if you saw my moniker at the bottom. I am Christian by the grace of God. And no, I dont have a PhD in Islamic Studies. The Caliph Al-Baghdadi has a PhD in Islamic Studies and above all he speaks Arabic. He definitely understands the Koran and the hadiths in the original language!