plaetton:


Lol! @ the Boeing 747 argument for god. That argument is so infantile, it is not worth repudiating again.
Now, have you ever considered the beauty, complexity, symmetry, geometry and the mathematical exactitude of a randomly formed snowflake?

MrPresident1:


The 747 argument is chosen because it is easier seen through the mind’s eye. It is practical, logical and scientific.

Now take a very good look at your own words, from a self-acclaimed scientist; you talk about beauty, complexity, symmetry, geometry, and exactitude, and yet you say 'randomly formed'?

Don't you think you are creating doubts about your intelligence?

Martian:


The same probability of your magical skymaster riding down from the clouds during the feast of roshashanna.
Speaking of roshashanna, aren't you supposed to have been raptured to heaven or something on September25?
Did jesus reschedule again?

doubleDx:





The bold is why I don't take them Nairaland atheists seriously! It's glaring intelligent design and nothing more.....In fact the idea that universal laws were created by a purposeless, random, chance chemical events is completely absurd!



Heathen, resorted to mockery as usual smdh! He is "magical" to you because you can't understand him/she/it! That delusion of disbelief has held you in prison too long....I see you've lost touch with "truth" already; you need the LORD's mercy

davien:

2.you claiming patterns exists because order does is a fallacy.....first you just made a claim as true without giving definitive demonstrations....patterns can be derived from any disorderly object or phenomenon.....infact .....psychotherapists employ random imagery to reveal our notions on them....and naturally we derive ordered notions from them....patterns exist in everything no matter how random and order isn't a factor....

SNCOQ3:


What you mean by the bolded is not even clear enough to make any sense.

Lets assume psychotherapists employ random imagery to achieve...whatever; Do they employ this random imagery in a controlled and orderly way or not? (Please also take cognizance that this random images are applied by intelligent minds for a purpose.)

You can look at a sand dune see a pattern, you can look at ocean waves and see a repeating pattern.
Does that imply that sand dunes and ocean waves are intelligently designed and directed for a purpose?

SNCOQ3:


What you mean by the bolded is not even clear enough to make any sense.

Lets assume psychotherapists employ random imagery to achieve...whatever; Do they employ this random imagery in a controlled and orderly way or not? (Please also take cognizance that this random images are applied by intelligent minds for a purpose.)

SNCOQ3:


What you mean by the bolded is not even clear enough to make any sense.

Lets assume psychotherapists employ random imagery to achieve...whatever; Do they employ this random imagery in a controlled and orderly way or not? (Please also take cognizance that this random images are applied by intelligent minds for a purpose.) elaborate more please and define your terms so as that we can agree on your terms.....namely "controlled and orderly"

plaetton:

You can look at a sand dune see a pattern, you can look at ocean waves and see a repeating pattern.
Does that imply that sand dunes and ocean waves are intelligently designed and directed for a purpose?

SNCOQ3:


What you mean by the bolded is not even clear enough to make any sense.

Lets assume psychotherapists employ random imagery to achieve...whatever; Do they employ this random imagery in a controlled and orderly way or not? (Please also take cognizance that this random images are applied by intelligent minds for a purpose.)

SNCOQ3:


Patterns of ocean waves and sand dunes are created by forces obeying certain physical laws- just like the formation of snowflakes. Physical Laws are fixed, not arbitrary just like you have posited earlier- otherwise they won't be laws. This laws exist because their is order in the universe, order in this "complex machine" of a universe is evidence for God.

davien:
SNCOQ3 how do you differentiate between a universe that is intelligently designed and one that is not?.......

Joshthefirst:
I see plaetton has refused to reply me. Maybe you can.


The second law of thermodynamics is the law of increasing entropy.

It states that the universe is always moving towards a greater state of disorder or entropy.
-Anything that happens spontaneously leads to increased entropy
-Processes that result in an increase in organization(a decrease in the 'spreading out' of energy, a decrease in entropy) will always require energy input and ARE NOT SPONTANEOUS.

Note that this law applies to isolated systems, of which earth is not a part . Note also that the term 'disorder' can sometimes be gravely misinterpreted as entropy which is largely used to connote statistics in energy processes and evaluations.

I have no bone to pick, just questions to ask.

I know the earth is not an isolated system, but that is not enough of a justification to me, I still need some issues sorted out.

What drives the evolution process? What causes this seeming 'achievement' of evolution we see in organisms today?

What drives the purpotedly blind process?

SNCOQ3:


Mind --> Thought --> Word --> Language.
Mathematics exist as the language of the universe because a Mind exists that understands and communicates the order and mechanism of the universe.

SNCOQ3:



All things in the universe have a mathematical relationship to others in your physics textbooks; and that is because the purpose of your textbooks is to communicate the mechanism and order in the universe with the language of mathematics.

SNCOQ3:



With the above quote, you just provided an evidence for God.
The relationship mathematics describes is fixed because their is order in the mechanism of the universe. Order in complexity exist because the Intelligent Mind designed it.

SNCOQ3:


Atmospheric Conditions generating complex multi-symmetrically designed snowflakes at random is governed by a complex Physical Law. Physical laws are laws because they are ordered and consistent.

Their are proofs that an intelligent mind can create an ordered, consistent, physical law to govern the generation of random but well designed objects.

I(mind) wrote this code below to command (condition) my computer(environment) to generate random integer numbers. (no floating-point numbers...just integers).

--------------------------

#include <time.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

srand(time(NULL));
int random_integers = rand();

-----------------------

Game programmers have used this techniques as a means to generate fractals like snowflakes in conjunction with recursive functions.

SNCOQ3:
Mental gymnastics....pull off fallacies out of thin air....quoting out of context....self-contradictions....endless shifting....pseudo-intellectual rants...what a convoluted mess.

Denying God's existence by any means necessary just got even more desperate. Enjoy.

plaetton:


You defeat whatever arguments you intended when you invoke the word" spiritual". That nullified it and made a non- scientific, non rational argument.

But quite frankly, we do understand the processes [/b]of human reproduction. It is not a scriptural mystery. It is certainly not the same as invoking and unknown entity to take credit [b] for complex processes that we don't understand.

SNCOQ3:
Mental gymnastics....pull off fallacies out of thin air....quoting out of context....self-contradictions....endless shifting....pseudo-intellectual rants...what a convoluted mess.

Denying God's existence by any means necessary just got even more desperate. Enjoy.

Martian:


Why don't you stand on a stool,put a noose around your neck and kick. Since space genie didn't show up to take you to paradise, you need to take the initiative and do your best to get there asap.

SNCOQ3:
Mental gymnastics....pull off fallacies out of thin air....quoting out of context....self-contradictions....endless shifting....pseudo-intellectual rants...what a convoluted mess.

Denying God's existence by any means necessary just got even more desperate. Enjoy.

Joshthefirst:


Sorry sir. This is ranting.


The second law states that the universe tends to increasing entropy. Every act of organization and advancement requires directed energy. Energy can only be directed by a director.

That is my stance.

So how does the organization of evolution take place?

plaetton:


I took my time to ponder and fully understand your question, especially in the context of evolution.

But , as luck would have it, and as I am sure even you can see that from the bolded, you have actually rendered your own question null and void.
It is a question that does not make any sense if you accept the bolded as true.

And that is one thing I love about you Josh, .. Your last statements always seem to contradict your first.
lol.

davien:
The false dichotomy on this thread stinks to high heaven.....how is the rejection of "intelligent design" imply "random design"?
This is a typical theist mentality...either you accept their ideas or you are the opposite ...same with how by disproving theory A means assertion B is correct
....and can someone tell me what the asteroid belt is "designed" to do?... or what the increasing entropy of the universe is good for?
and why in the blazes are floaters in the eye meant to do?

plaetton:


Since you are so quick to attribute mathematical laws that produce random events as proof of intelligent design, then let me repeat the question that davien asked you.

Do you have any proof or examples of a universe that is not orderly and designed, so that we can compare, and then be able to say "yes, this universe is surely designed"?

Joshthefirst:
Lol. You are the one being hypocritical.

Maybe the increasing entropy of the universe is to show people like you there must have been one to harness it into useful creation in the beginning.

josh just stop....clearly you do not know the price increasing entropy costs in a scale such as the universe......because of increasing entropy energy is being re-arranged.....driving everything towards heat death..... ....
and you don't just slot in your favorite myth to answer a question.....thats at best wishful thinking.....because if asked how you come about such a conclusion....you'd point me to bronze age tales....

Joshthefirst:
Lol. This is quite cowardly and foolish.

davien:
No it is not....plaetton realizes that the things we call designed aren't termed so because of order or beauty....no...
we term things designed because we have no examples of them having any natural origin.....[b]you can hold up a clock and a twig in your hand and come to the conclusion that clocks....whether intricate or simple....do not occur naturally and then look at the twig....no matter its appearance or beauty and come to the conclusion that all examples of twigs show them to occur naturally.......
so what did SNCOQ3 compare to realize everything is designed or rather what would an undesigned universe appear to be? [/b]