Kunle

stop confussing people or you get the wrath of God

benedictac:

Kunle

stop confussing people or you get the wrath of God

Who is confusing people here? Is everything i have said not biblical?? I think it is your penterascal pastors who would get the wrath of God for their penchant for twisting the scriptures and adding to it what is not there. remember what the bible says in
Revelation 22:18-19:
18 And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.


I challenge anybody or any pastor to show us were rapture appeared in the bible, if you can't show me were it is and you believe so much in it then you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself and you need to re-examine yourself as a christian. Your pastors are also in danger of the plagues described in the book of revelation being added to them for adding to the word of God.

@benedicta
I thought by now you would have taken up my challenge and shown me where in the scripture rapture is evidently you don't know or understand what you beleive in, you just dey follow pastor

KunleOshob:

@Benedicta
I thought by now you would have taken up my challenge and shown me where in the scripture rapture is evidently you don't know or understand what you beleive in, you just dey follow pastor

I have this for you Kunle:
Tit 3:9 ¶ but shun foolish questionings, and genealogies, and strifes, and fightings about law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Sorry i know what i belief and through the grace of God i will hold the little i belief and pray to know more. Sorry i cant discuss this vain talk any further so that i dont grieve the Holy Spirit by mistake.

Kunle,

Concerning the firstfruits i have done this research and i found found this commentaries with biblical backups.

Maybe the bible might still be deceiving you just as the pastors are (according to you).

FIRSTFRUITS
Presents made to God of part of the fruits of the harvest, to express the submission, dependence, and thankfulness of the offerers. The portion given was instead of the whole, in acknowledgement that all was due to God. They were offered in the temple before the crop was gathered on the fifteenth of Nisan, in the evening, and threshed in a court of the temple. After it was well cleaned, about three pints of it were roasted, and pounded in a mortar. Over this was thrown a measure of olive oil and a handful of incense; and the priest, taking the offering, waved it before the Lord towards the four cardinal points, throwing a handful of it into the fire on the altar, and keeping the rest. After this, all were at liberty to get in the harvest. When the wheat harvest was over, on the day of Pentecost they offered as first fruits of another, in the name of the nation, two loaves, of about three pints of flour each, made of leavened dough, Le 23:10,17. In addition to these firstfruits, every private person was obliged to bring his firstfruits to the temple, but Scripture prescribes neither the time nor the quantity.

There was, besides this, another sort of firstfruits paid to God, Nu 15:19,21; Ne 10:37: when the bread in the family was kneaded, a portion of it was set apart, and given to the priest or Levite of the place; if there were no priest or Levite, it was cast into the oven and there consumed.

Those offerings are also often called firstfruits, which were brought by the Israelites from devotion, to the temple, for the feast of thanksgiving, to which they invited their relations and friends, and the Levites of their cities. The firstfruits and tenths were the most considerable revenue of the priests and Levites.

Christians have "the firstfruits of the Holy Spirit," Ro 8:23; that is, more abundant and more excellent gifts than the Jews; these were also a foretaste of the full harvest. "Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept," 1Co 15:20, the forerunner of all those who, because he lives, shall live also, Joh 14:19.

benedictac:

I have this for you Kunle:
Tit 3:9 ¶ but shun foolish questionings, and genealogies, and strifes, and fightings about law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Sorry i know what i belief and through the grace of God i will hold the little i belief and pray to know more. Sorry i cant discuss this vain talk any further so that i dont grieve the Holy Spirit by mistake.

It is very sad we have Christians posting in this forum who cannot state what they believe in with the appropriate Bibical references, and how they quickly recoil into protective shell when questioned about their faith.

Benedictac, if you don't want to discuss your beliefs so that you will not 'grieve the Holy Spirit by mistake', then what are you doing on a public forum?

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you [the priestly nation] have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you that you shall be no priest to Me; seeing you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children.
AMPLIFIED BIBLE

Ovamboland:

It is very sad we have Christians posting in this forum who cannot state what they believe in with the appropriate Bibical references, and how they quickly recoil into protective shell when questioned about their faith.

Benedictac, if you don't want to discuss your beliefs so that you will not 'grieve the Holy Spirit by mistake', then what are you doing on a public forum?

I am here to edify myself and others but when it involves vain and unprofitable talks i stay away.

The bibles says that we should not be deceived, evil communication corrupts. Or was the bible weak also to have said that?

benedictac:

I am here to edify myself and others but when it involves vain and unprofitable talks i stay away.

The bibles says that we should not be deceived, evil communication corrupts. Or was the bible weak also to have said that?

Benedictac,
At no time did the Bible discourage thinking with our God-given faculties, if Kunle's interpretation is not in agreement with your understanding, then you should be able to show how you came about your understanding with Bible refrences instead of saying discusion of Biblical verses and doctrines is unprofitable.

If you can't discuss then what do you do at Bible studies in your church. Do you ask questions at all or just swallow whatever the co-ordinator or Pastor says?
Does a Biblical discusion become unprofitable just because it disarees with your beliefs?

@benedicta
Even going by the definition of first fruit you posted here how does it relate to the type of manipulative first fruit being preached by some pastors today. Remember the jewish people of that time had money and they also earned income. they were never ever asked to bring money for first fruit or tithes, it was always agricultural produce.

Ovamboland:

Does a Biblical discusion become unprofitable just because it disarees with your beliefs?

^GBAM!!!

KunleOshob:

^GBAM!!!

when it concerns my faith YES

benedictac:

when it concerns my faith YES

It is quite certain judging from your posts that you don't know or understand what you believe in. You faith is obviously in what your pastor told you and not the undiluted word of God.

KunleOshob:

It is quite certain judging from your posts that you don't know or understand what you believe in. You faith is obviously in what your pastor told you and not the undiluted word of God.

That is where you are wrong. My faith is in what the Holy Spirit ministers to me whether through the pastor, the bible or even through my mind or any other means as long as i am convinced it is the Holy Spirit speaking.

benedictac:

That is where you are wrong. My faith is in what the Holy Spirit ministers to me whether through the pastor, the bible or even through my mind or any other means as long as i am convinced it is the Holy Spirit speaking.

Benetictac,

How many truths are there in one verse of scripture?
If we have a dispute on a Bible verse and i tell you Holy spirit told me the understanding and you say likewise, who is right and who is wrong?

How do we resolve this difference?

benedictac:

That is where you are wrong. My faith is in what the Holy Spirit ministers to me whether through the pastor, the bible or even through my mind or any other means as long as i am convinced it is the Holy Spirit speaking.

If truely the holy spirit is the one ministering to you, you would know that the holy spirit does not require "tithes" or "first fruits" form you. You would also know that christian giving is purely freewill and not under any compulsion like some criminally minded pastors preach. You would also know that emphasis on christain giving as directed by christ and the holy spirit is giving to the poor and needy, not to your church as your pastor would like you to believe

Ovamboland:


Benetictac,

How many truths are there in one verse of scripture?
If we have a dispute on a Bible verse and i tell you Holy spirit told me the understanding and you say likewise, who is right and who is wrong?

How do we resolve this difference?

Let all men be lier and God be true. If what you are telling is the absolute truth the Holy Spirit will tell me too.

There is only one truth in every verse of the bible.

KunleOshob:

If truely the holy spirit is the one ministering to you, you would know that the holy spirit does not require "tithes" or "first fruits" form you. You would also know that christian giving is purely freewill and not under any compulsion like some criminally minded pastors preach. You would also know that emphasis on christain giving as directed by christ and the holy spirit is giving to the poor and needy, not to your church as your pastor would like you to believe

In all my posts i have never said or mentioned that God does things with compulsion. He doesnt even force any one to follow Him, He only advices.

In firstfruits or thanksgiving he is only asking you for your own good hear what He said here:

10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.

12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
Ex 19:5; De 10:14; Job 41:11; Ps 24:1; 1Co 10:26,28

13 Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?

14 Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
De 23:21; Job 22:27; Ps 76:11; Ec 5:4-5; Ho 14:2; Heb 13:15

15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

Ps. 50:10-15.

That is one, now
where do you place this:

Mal 3:10 Bring ye the whole tithe into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now herewith, saith Jehovah of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough [to receive it].
(ASV)


Where is His house? Kunle, kia

benedictac:

Mal 3:10 Bring ye the whole tithe into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now herewith, saith Jehovah of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough [to receive it].
(ASV)
Where is His house? Kunle, kia

First of all this message was directed to the Jews who were practicing the Jewish religon of that time, it wasn't directed to christians. Secondly what they were told to bring to the house of God was FOOD and not money as our mordern day pharisees preach. The food was meant to be eaten by the tither, his family, the orpans, widow, stranger and also the levites this is very clear from Deuteronomy 14: 22-29. Is it not fraudulent for pastors to tell you then that tithes is money and that it is exclusively meant for the church. This is contrary to the word of God. The bible clearly defines what tithes is and what it is meant for. the question we should be asking is why these charlatans decided to change god's words even when it is obvious that the biblical tithes is not even applicable to christians.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29:

The Giving of Tithes


22 “You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23 Bring this tithe to the designated place of worship—the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored—and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. Doing this will teach you always to fear the Lord your God.

24 “Now when the Lord your God blesses you with a good harvest, the place of worship he chooses for his name to be honored might be too far for you to bring the tithe. 25 If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds, put the money in a pouch, and go to the place the Lord your God has chosen. 26 When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household. 27 And do not neglect the Levites in your town, for they will receive no allotment of land among you.
28 “At the end of every third year, bring the entire tithe of that year’s harvest and store it in the nearest town. 29 Give it to the Levites, who will receive no allotment of land among you, as well as to the foreigners living among you, the orphans, and the widows in your towns, so they can eat and be satisfied. Then the Lord your God will bless you in all your work.


The levites were only allowed to receive out of the tithes was becos God did not allow them own land as stated in verse 27. that reason is not even being observed today. in other wards if any pastor wants to collect tithes he must give up his right to own property. Of cos your pastors would never show you this part of the bible.

benedictac:

Let all men be lier and God be true. If what you are telling is the absolute truth the Holy Spirit will tell me too.

There is only one truth in every verse of the bible.

Thank you Benedictac,
The quote is mattew 23:23
23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former

Can you expalin in plain english what the Holy Spirit is telling or has told you about this verse if you have read it before now?

Kunle,

even the devil knows the scripture and he quotes, but do you know the difference, he twists it to suit himself.

thank you.

benedictac:

Kunle,
even the devil knows the scripture and he quotes, but do you know the difference, [b]he twists it to suit himself.[/b]thank you.

At least you have now read deut 14: 22-29 and now know how the bible defines tithes(does it resemble the kind of tithes being preached today?). You can see from there that it is our Pastors that are twisting the word of God to satify their desires for worldly goods.

"The truth is that there is so much ignorance existing in the christian community today which is actively encouraged by the leaders they don't allow you to question any thing they tell you you just have to accept it whether it as sound biblical basis or not and this is very dangerous becos it leads to abuses and this is why several unscriptural things have found their way into the church and been instituitionalized over the centuries. You would be amazed how many things we hold as doctrine that you wouldn't find in scripture. Many christians eagerly await the rapture, do you know that the bible doesn't say anything about rapture and the word doesn't even exist in the bible? yet people hold it as gospel truth. (The concept of rapture emanted from a book written by a 19th century preacher.) just today i was reading the papers i came across a full page colour congratulatory message congratulating a demon (Rev king) for his birthday the message went on to shower praises, honour and glory to him as if he were god. This is the extent of brainwashing going on in our churches today. This is a man who murdered a church member in broad daylight and you still have people hero worshipping him three years down the line after he as been convicted for murder.

In my opinion christianity as it is being practised today needs to be totally overhauled, as far as i am concerned most people that profess christianity are not christlike deep down. Our churches don't even teach us or encourage true christianity and this is all due to greed and self desires of the church leadrship." Quote from Brother Kunle

@ brother Kunle, again another very unscriptural notion. First it was giving to the poor as the ONLY NT giving, now rapture.

The word "Rapture" what does it mean in English Language i.e. dictionary meaning.

1. The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.
2. An expression of ecstatic feeling. Often used in the plural.
3. The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.

My question is please enlighten us on the 19th century preacher that developed the concept of rapture.

As you show us the preacher look at: Verse 17 of particular importance. But please in your response make sure you state the particular preacher and not just a 19th century preacher.

13But we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve like other people who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so through Jesus God will bring those who have died with him. 15For we declare to you what the Lord has told us to say:[c] We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have died. 16With a shout of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of God's trumpet, the Lord himself will come down from heaven, and the dead who belong to the Messiah will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18So then, encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 18

Here Paul was teaching on why christains shouldnt be ignorant about death, or worry, from verse 1 it is a bit clearer, please take out time to read the whole chapter. The verse you quoted in Revealation again does not refer to the rapture, there is a sequence of events that the bible clearly teaches us the end will follow.

Ovamboland:

Thank you Benedictac,
The quote is mattew 23:23
23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former

Can you expalin in plain english what the Holy Spirit is telling or has told you about this verse if you have read it before now?

I had wanted to stay away from this topic but it seems a lie is beginning to hold sway here.

As i stated earlier if you choose not to tithe by faith God bless you tithing has nothing to do with your salvation.

First on the notion that the tithes were food, animals and agricultural proceeds ONLY, how can we be so ignorant. This has to do with the way labour was rewarded at the "time". The economic system would mainly have been trade by barter so it was exchange goods for goods pls note the word mainly, money was gradually evolving. The more goods you had, it could be deduced that the more blessed that man is. In other words the means of exchange/reward was in raw commodities such as agricultural proceeds. So when we read through the old testament we always see that when God blesses a man he increases in Cows, sheeps, tents etc. In other words he increases in commodities,

From Abraham first tithe to Melchizedek it was (spoils of war), maybe Gold, Horses, swords etc i dont have the exact details as i am not quoting from Genesis but i know it was from the spoils he tithed.  Then through the law to the levites it was a tenth of thier increase, which basically was from the works of their hands, God had given the children of Isreal a fertile land so they were maybe farmers by occupation, others might have been cattle rearers.

The question now is how is Labour rewarded?

Secondly someone mentioned that Tithes were paid to the Levites as they were the priest and did nothing so something about the Pastors bla bla,  How can you be so far from the truth, who ever imagines Tithes were paid to the Pastor is being deceived. No Tithe is paid to any Pastor. In actual terms the Pastor should tither he is merely the Bishop/Deacon (using NT words) coordinating and encouraging the brethren he also should Tithe.

He has made us Priest and Kings unto him, and have one High Priest, it is him the tithes are paid to, recall Abraham paying Tithe to Melchizedek and study on what Hebrew says about Melchizedek. We are not under the Law and do not Tithe to fulfil the requirements of the Law.

Finally on the verse below, please see the statements in bold,

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Though this could still be considered the dispensation of the law as Jesus hadnt ascended yet, but he still noted "without neglecting the former". May God give us grace to understand.

away4real:



First on the notion that the tithes were food, animals and agricultural proceeds ONLY, how can we be so ignorant. This has to do with the way labour was rewarded at the "time". The economic system would mainly have been trade by barter so it was exchange goods for goods pls note the word mainly, money was gradually evolving. The more goods you had, it could be deduced that the more blessed that man is. In other words the means of exchange/reward was in raw commodities such as agricultural proceeds. So when we read through the old testament we always see that when God blesses a man he increases in Cows, sheeps, tents etc. In other words he increases in commodities,

Benetictac, have come across this command from God? Deut 14 23-24

23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25[b] then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose[/b]

The highlight shows silver was a means of exchange widely available as the time this tithing law was given.
Have thought that there were also carpentars, garment makers, blacksmith, scribes, tax collectors, professional soldiers etc. in Israel, who get paid in silver, how did the say they should pay tithes?

away4real:

Though this could still be considered the dispensation of the law as Jesus hadnt ascended yet, but he still noted "without neglecting the former". May God give us grace to understand.

Is this what the Holy Spiriyt revealed to you as regard the quoted verse? am afraid i heard very differently, tithing is not the subject of that verse, neither is it justice, mercy and others. Jesus was only highligthing the behaviour of the Pharisees, their hypocrisy, and exalting mundane things for main crux of God's commandment.

This is actually the first time I'll hear 'Fristfruits'. Christians are supposed to give their first salaries to the church?

The truth is that there is so much ignorance existing in the christian community today which is actively encouraged by the leaders they don't allow you to question any thing they tell you you just have to accept it whether it as sound biblical basis or not and this is very dangerous becos it leads to abuses and this is why several unscriptural things have found their way into the church and been instituitionalized over the centuries. You would be amazed how many things we hold as doctrine that you wouldn't find in scripture.

Benny Hinn preached to his church one Sunday, that Christians are 'little gods' and something else about nine spirits. Some of his church members went to see him and tell him his teaching was unscriptural,and they proved it to him. You know what he did the following Sunday? He apologised to his church for the teaching the previous week,said he got carried away or something, and asked their forgiveness. Isn't his humility refreshing?

Imagine if it had been Nigeria. Nobody would think Daddy's teaching was wrong, much less dare to tell him so. Everything they say is divine, though we have a Bible and are supposed to examine their teaching by the light of the bible. That's why the unscrupulous take advantage of innocent Christians. But you know, not all Pastors teach tithing to get money. A few teach it because that is what they were taught in pastoral schools. They sincerely believe Christians should tithe, as if God's love and blessing is conditioned upon tithing.

Only the Jews are subject to Jewish laws anyway. And Paul tells them in Romans 6 that as Christians, Jews are no longer subject to the law.
13. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means

Ovamboland:

Benetictac, have come across this command from God? Deut 14 23-24

23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25[b] then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose[/b]

The highlight shows silver was a means of exchange widely available as the time this tithing law was given.
Have thought that there were also carpentars, garment makers, blacksmith, scribes, tax collectors, professional soldiers etc. in Israel, who get paid in silver, how did the say they should pay tithes?

Is this what the Holy Spiriyt revealed to you as regard the quoted verse? am afraid i heard very differently, tithing is not the subject of that verse, neither is it justice, mercy and others. Jesus was only highligthing the behaviour of the Pharisees, their hypocrisy, and exalting mundane things for main crux of God's commandment.

My question remains what was the direct reward of labour at the time?? Was the economy subsistence or not?? 

I totally agree with you there would have been carpenters, garment makers etc then you answer the question so how were they supposed to tithe the OT way? Please tell us how were they supposed to tithe?? since you claim the tithe was only agricultural products.??

My premise as i stated earlier is that the notion that OT tithe were only agricultural products is a lie, you have showed were God told them to convert it to silver (a commodity), so in other words silver could be used as tithe. And again note the situation the people who had reaped their products but were far off, so they had reaped agricultural products were far off but could still tithe silver,

Dont mix up the issue, was the tither suppose to give only agricultural products, cows etc or could they tithe silver and gold?? If they could then what is the issue tithing money today.

Halleluyah, revealation according to Ovamboland, tithing will not be the subject or near it to you though they were the exact words of Jesus, becos my brother as a man thinketh in his heart,

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former

The same issue we saw earlier someone saying Paul meant something else when the scripture is clear, please interpret without neglecting the former in plain simple english.

Eg i say to you why are you not reading chemistry, you are studying only Physics dont you know you should not neglect the former. But the strategic aim or broader message is be a studious student, read your books, perhaps you might have maths and Englis also but in this situation i am saying do not neglect Chemistry,

Mad_Max:

This is actually the first time I'll hear 'Fristfruits'. Christians are supposed to give their first salaries to the church?
The truth is that there is so much ignorance existing in the christian community today which is actively encouraged by the leaders they don't allow you to question any thing they tell you you just have to accept it whether it as sound biblical basis or not and this is very dangerous becos it leads to abuses and this is why several unscriptural things have found their way into the church and been instituitionalized over the centuries. You would be amazed how many things we hold as doctrine that you wouldn't find in scripture.
Benny Hinn preached to his church one Sunday, that Christians are 'little gods' and something else about nine spirits. Some of his church members went to see him and tell him his teaching was unscriptural,and they proved it to him. You know what he did the following Sunday? He apologised to his church for the teaching the previous week,said he got carried away or something, and asked their forgiveness. Isn't his humility refreshing?
Imagine if it had been Nigeria. Nobody would think Daddy's teaching was wrong, much less dare to tell him so. Everything they say is divine, though we have a Bible and are supposed to examine their teaching by the light of the bible. That's why the unscrupulous take advantage of innocent Christians. But you know, not all Pastors teach tithing to get money. A few teach it because that is what they were taught in pastoral schools. They sincerely believe Christians should tithe, as if God's love and blessing is conditioned upon tithing.
Only the Jews are subject to Jewish laws anyway. And Paul tells them in Romans 6 that as Christians, Jews are no longer subject to the law.
13. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means

God bless you dear!This is exactly how the Barian Christians operated in there days,they go back and search if what they ve been taught is true or lie.
Concerning the firstfruits stuff, personally I do not believe in that and its just one of the many frauds and manipulations going on in the churches 2day.
The Bible clearly states that we should'nt give grudgingly,once there is grudge in your heart about what you wanna give, then something is not right about such giving.So to the poster,Take care of your parents and family with your first fruits and bless God on there behalf for sending you to school and been there for you.As for tithingyou can give 10% to the church you worship.If that doesn't satisfy your pastor,pls look for another church.God bless you!!Some of these pastors thinks they re dealing with people who can't use there head.

away4real:



I totally agree with you there would have been carpenters, garment makers etc then you answer the question so how were they supposed to tithe the OT way? Please tell us how were they supposed to tithe?? since you claim the tithe was only agricultural products.??

Answer is obvious they were not required to tithe since they did not produce from the land.

away4real:

My premise as i stated earlier is that the notion that OT tithe were only agricultural products is a lie, you have showed were God told them to convert it to silver (a commodity), so in other words silver could be used as tithe. And again note the situation the people who had reaped their products but were far off, so they had reaped agricultural products were far off but could still tithe silver,

Dont mix up the issue, was the tither suppose to give only agricultural products, cows etc or could they tithe silver and gold?? If they could then what is the issue tithing money today.

I really hate it when i see a dilberate fraudulent attempt to distort the bible, the passage you just quoted is one of the strongest evidence that money is not tithable in the bible, you quote verse 25 which said you can convert the tithes to silver/money if the place of worship is far, then deliberately omit the following verse 26 which explains specifically that the money should be used to buy food items including wine and alcoholic drinks to be eaten by the tither and his family in the presence of God. If money had been tithable they would not have been required to use the money to buy food. The bible would have simply told them to give the money /silver to the levites/priest. To expose your fraud i would repost the passage below verse 26 inclusive.

Deuteronomy 14:25-26:
25 If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds, put the money in a pouch, and go to the place the Lord your God has chosen. 26 When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household.

KunleOshob:

Answer is obvious they were not required to tithe since they did not produce from the land.

Interesting, so it was not only the levites that weren't expected to tithe under the law. Really interesting.

And you didnt repond to my response to your unscriptural notion on rapture.

My take on this?
Its scriptural [Exodus 23:19, Proverbs 3:9, Leviticus 2:14, etc]
But there is a caveat here:

If you believe in it, go ahead and give, it will produce good result for you. If you do not believe it, please dont give,
whatever you do for God or even for man that is not borne out of inner conviction is a wasteful exercise.

newdeal:

My take on this?
Its scriptural [Exodus 23:19, Proverbs 3:9, Leviticus 2:14, etc][/b]But there is a caveat here:

[b]If you believe in it, go ahead and give, it will produce good result for you. If you do not believe it, please dont give,
whatever you do for God or even for man that is not borne out of inner conviction is a wasteful exercise.

I'm not sure you've studied the scripture passages you highlighted; if you have, you'd clearly see that you have no business giving firstfruits