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SegzyJoe:

@poster
It is only the TRUTH that you know that can set you free and not the one that is known by others. If you re a Christian and you don't know the truth about giving, then nobody can tell you that TRUTH here. Why don't you ask God to tell you the TRUTH. Am sure He will answer you, then you won't have to come here.

@SegzyJoe,
I do know the truth about giving, what I was trying to find out is if Firstfruits is a biblical LAW as its being touted, and wether it still applies today. You will agree with me that knowledge increases everyday, and people go through experiences in life so others can learn from them.
What I learnt from the discourses on this forum has really opened my eye to a lot of things. Remember "you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free".

Do I take it then you are not in support of asking questions(at least on religious issues) of your compatriots in public forums(e.g nairaland)? How then do you grow in knowledge?

@coolruler
Abi oh, he seems to have a problem with people sharing views and opinions contrary to what his pastor as told himeven if it is wrong. It is in perfect order for us to share views, opinions, experience and knowledge in forums like this, contributors are then free to do further research to verify what they might have learnt to be certain it is true. But to put a blanket blackout on this forum is to question what he is looking for here in the first place. I think we should be like the berean christians and study to verify what we have been taught

Acts 17:10-11:

Paul and Silas in Berea
10 That very night the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.

Quote from: KunleOshob on Today at 11:40:29 AM
To answer this question, please be reminded that Abraham came from the city of Ur in babylonia(genesis 11:31). Tithes was a common tradition amongst the babylonian people of that time and it was normally given to kings and rulers. Please note that Melchizedek whom abraham gave tithes to was the King of Salem. In short Abraham's tithe was as a result of babylonian tradition and NOT a religious injunction. To know more about "babylonian tithes" just do a googlr search on it and the facts would present themselves

KunleOshob:

Well as christians we are all priests of the most high and christ is our high priest so no big deal about being a priest  besides Abraham gave him a tithe becos he was a king and NOT becos he was a priest cos this was the babylonian tradition were Abraham was from. Abraham was a prophet of God who had direct physical acess to God, he did not need a priest as a go between.

@ coolrunner, its good to seek counsel but be careful whose advise you take. I have consistently showed you that Brother Kunle is preaching heresy and there are a lot like him to avoid, so that is why an online forum is not really the best of places to seek counsel. You dont know anythin about the people or the fruits they bear, just the words they type. For circular issues that will do not spiritual issues.

See for example his two post on Melchizedek, totally unscriptural and i will show it. Abraham didnt give hime Tithe becos he was a king of Salem, no wonder the controversy on the issue of Tithe.

@ bro Kunle you have again preached heresy. Please see Hebrew 5: 1-10 below

1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you.

6 As he said also in another place, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears to him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation to all them that obey him; 10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Verses 5, 6 & 10 speaks for itself. Read your bible properly before coming to a public forum to preach heresy.

At this point please read your own advise below, do u search the scriptures with a teachable spirit or go in there looking for somethin


Acts 17:10-11:

Paul and Silas in Berea
10 That very night the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.

away4real:

Quote from: KunleOshob on Today at 11:40:29 AM
To answer this question, please be reminded that Abraham came from the city of Ur in babylonia(genesis 11:31). Tithes was a common tradition amongst the babylonian people of that time and it was normally given to kings and rulers. Please note that Melchizedek whom abraham gave tithes to was the King of Salem. In short Abraham's tithe was as a result of babylonian tradition and NOT a religious injunction. To know more about "babylonian tithes" just do a googlr search on it and the facts would present themselves


@ coolrunner, its good to seek counsel but be careful whose advise you take. I have consistently showed you that Brother Kunle is preaching heresy and there are a lot like him to avoid, so that is why an online forum is not really the best of places to seek counsel. You dont know anythin about the people or the fruits they bear, just the words they type. For circular issues that will do not spiritual issues.

See for example his two post on Melchizedek, totally unscriptural and i will show it. Abraham didnt give hime Tithe becos he was a king of Salem, no wonder the controversy on the issue of Tithe.

@ bro Kunle you have again preached heresy. Please see Hebrew 5: 1-10 below

1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you.

6 As he said also in another place, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears to him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation to all them that obey him; 10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Verses 5, 6 & 10 speaks for itself. Read your bible properly before coming to a public forum to preach heresy.

At this point please read your own advise below, do u search the scriptures with a teachable spirit or go in there looking for somethin

I don't know why you are hell bent on remaining in your ignorance and also this your perpetual penchant to misrepresent me is indeed nauseating. I never said melchizedek was not a priest what i emphasized is that Abraham gave him a tithe becos he was a King as that was the baylonian custom (Abraham was from Ur in babylonia) of that time. There was definetly noting in that passage to suggest he gave melchizedek tithes becos he was a priest. i also went to explain that as a prophet of the most high who had direct access to him, he didn't need to go thru melchizedek to make an offering to God.

KunleOshob:

I don't know why you are hell bent on remaining in your ignorance and also this your perpetual penchant to misrepresent me is indeed nauseating. I never said melchizedek was not a priest what i emphasized is that Abraham gave him a tithe becos he was a King as that was the baylonian custom (Abraham was from Ur in babylonia) of that time. There was definetly noting in that passage to suggest he gave melchizedek tithes becos he was a priest. i also went to explain that as a prophet of the most high who had direct access to him, he didn't need to go thru melchizedek to make an offering to God.

@ bro Kunle, are you reading your bible at all, ?? and your statement in bold is where the lie lies. Abraham gave Tithe to melchizedek because his priest hood was called of the order of Christ. Heb 5:10. He could approach God face to face like all of us, but then recognised that melchizedek was of the order of priest hood and not becos he was king. It was a shadow of the law.

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you.

6 As he said also in another place, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Melchizedek as Paul is showing here was a high priest, study more as see why Abraham paid Tithe, in a dispensation of grace when there was no law and then you might understand.

Please take it easy with your words, i have no issues with you but with the false doctrines. This is the fourth and we are counting.

@away4real,

Do you know what it meant to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek? Note: Melchizedek was not called after the order of Christ as u put,it was the other way around.
Your answer to this qustion would determine my response to you.

You keep attacking Kunle with statements saying he's preaching heresy. I do not think you know what u are talking about.

Expecting ur answer.

Perhaps all ye knowledgeable theologians and bible students can expound for us what exactly the Order of Melchizedek is. And then what the Order of Aaron is. And whether the order of Mechizedek was in operation during the time that the order of Aaron was in operation. Afterall Melchizedek preceded Aaron and Christ came after Aaron. So were there 2 parallel priesthoods at some span in history?

Melchizedek produced bread and Wine. Are we to draw from this parallels with the holy Eucharist? I was under the impression that the Eucharist was instituted by Christ himself on the night he was betrayed. How come we find here a precedent to the Eucharist?

One would easily presume that Melchizedek fed and wined Abram during their encounter. Tithes are agricultural products, food and wine included. This leaves me wondering who gave the tithe to whom?

away4real:

@ bro Kunle, are you reading your bible at all, ?? and your statement in bold is where the lie lies. Abraham gave Tithe to melchizedek because his priest hood was called of the order of Christ. Heb 5:10. He could approach God face to face like all of us, but then recognised that melchizedek was of the order of priest hood and not becos he was king. It was a shadow of the law.

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you.

6 As he said also in another place, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Melchizedek as Paul is showing here was a high priest, study more as see why Abraham paid Tithe, in a dispensation of grace when there was no law and then you might understand.

Please take it easy with your words, i have no issues with you but with the false doctrines. This is the fourth and we are counting.

I would strongly suggest that if you went to any fee paying school, you should go back to that school and ask for a refund as the money spent on your education is obviously a waste. The term heresy that you constanly use do you even know the meaning of that word or why it was introduced into the church's terminology.

Heresy is the rejection of one or more established beliefs of a religious body, or adherence to "other beliefs." Christian heresy refers to unorthodox practices and beliefs that were deemed to be heretical by one or more of the Christian churches. The term "heresy" most commonly refers to those beliefs which were declared to be anathema by the Church prior to the schism of 1054. However, since that time, various Christian churches have also used the concept in proceedings against individuals and groups deemed to be heretical by those churches

A lot of founding fathers of today's churches were described as heretics for instance Martin luther the father of protestanism was descriibed as an heretic by the catholic church becos he rebelled against them likewise william tynsdale was burnt at the stake for heresy Just becos he translated the bible into the English language against the will of the catholic church. Manipulative church leaders who want to impose there unscriptural beliefs on christians always call people that dare to challenge them heretics.

I would not continue to debate the issue of tithes with you as i have observed that you don't have the intelectual capacity to rise above the dogma you have been fed and study the word for your self. I leave you in your ignorance and darkness.

KunleOshob:

I would strongly suggest that if you went to any fee paying school, you should go back to that school and ask for a refund as the money spent on your education is obviously a waste. The term heresy that you constanly use do you even know the meaning of that word or why it was introduced into the church's terminology.

Heresy is the rejection of one or more established beliefs of a religious body, or adherence to "other beliefs." Christian heresy refers to unorthodox practices and beliefs that were deemed to be heretical by one or more of the Christian churches. The term "heresy" most commonly refers to those beliefs which were declared to be anathema by the Church prior to the schism of 1054. However, since that time, various Christian churches have also used the concept in proceedings against individuals and groups deemed to be heretical by those churches

A lot of founding fathers of today's churches were described as heretics for instance Martin luther the father of protestanism was descriibed as an heretic by the catholic church becos he rebelled against them likewise william tynsdale was burnt at the stake for heresy Just becos he translated the bible into the English language against the will of the catholic church. Manipulative church leaders who want to impose there unscriptural beliefs on christians always call people that dare to challenge them heretics.

I would not continue to debate the issue of tithes with you as i have observed that you don't have the intelectual capacity to rise above the dogma you have been fed and study the word for your self. I leave you in your ignorance and darkness.

@ bro Kunle i noted earlier that the insults are quite unnecessary we should be able to maintain proper decorum while debating and disagree without taking the low road. I am above that and wont tow that line with you.

At the point i say God bless you, thank God you stopped the discussion i would have at this point. Intellectually am sure we are light years apart but again this is a public forum and anyone has the right to feel intelligent.

ttalks:

@away4real,

Do you know what it meant to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek? Note: Melchizedek was not called after the order of Christ as u put,it was the other way around.
Your answer to this qustion would determine my response to you.

You keep attacking Kunle with statements saying he's preaching heresy. I do not think you know what u are talking about.

Expecting ur answer.

@ ttalks, thanks for your response. Kunle had continously made unscriptural comments and i showed it, i didnt just attack him, i showed it.

At this point, to each his own, as i said in my first post tithing isnt getting anyone to heaven so i will leave it at that. God bless you if you tithe or not, priest or King, Abraham or Jacob. God bless

I guess we can study the lives of christains (not circular) that have propsered Kingdom way from ministers like Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin to businessmen like Peter J. Daniels and surprisingly like Oprah Winfrey. Read their auto biographies and books search what they say are their secrets, what they consider are the pillars of kingdom prosperity that is if some of you believe prosperity is scriptural.

Then show me one just one non-tither that has prospered beyond "just being blessed". I guess its all about what God has revealed to us individually and in addition who we choose to listen, i would rather listen to the one that has proofs fruits, than the one that all he has is talk.

away4real:

I guess we can study the lives of christains (not circular) that have propsered Kingdom way from ministers like Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin to businessmen like Peter J. Daniels and surprisingly like Oprah Winfrey. Read their auto biographies and books search what they say are their secrets, what they consider are the pillars of kingdom prosperity that is if some of you believe prosperity is scriptural.

Please tell us, what did Oprah and Peter J. Daniels say was their secret; Tithing?

away4real:

Then show me one just one non-tither that has prospered beyond "just being blessed".

Ignorance on rampage!!

SirJohn:

Please tell us, what did Oprah and Peter J. Daniels say was their secret; Tithing?

Ignorance on rampage!!

This is not just a case of ignorance, i think it is a classical case of someone who as gone round the bend and lost touch with reality. I would suggest urgent psychiatric attention.

this thread is getting more and more interesting,minute by minute.

@KunleOshob
Bro, keep on the good works the Lord is with you

@SirJohn

Seems your hands are really itchy, i would appreciate discussions deviod of insults if thats too much to ask, then enjoy like Bro Kunle.

My question to you all please SHOW one just one non-tither that has prospered beyond "just being blessed".

There are no stories, so much for the "so called" knowledge (if it really is) and no proofs. Please refer to us to one non-tither that can show the proofs if not then please there is no debate.

kola oloye:

this thread is getting more and more interesting,minute by minute.

@KunleOshob
Bro, keep on the good works the Lord is with you

@ Brother Kola the lord is with you, keep on the good work

do bill gates oprah winfrey and roman abromovich pay tithes?

Passage Exodus 22:29:

Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.


Ezekiel 44:30:

The first of the ripe fruits and all the gifts brought to the Lord will go to the priests. The first samples of each grain harvest and the first of your flour must also be given to the priests so the Lord will bless your homes.

May kelly:

Passage Exodus 22:29:

Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.


Ezekiel 44:30:

The first of the ripe fruits and all the gifts brought to the Lord will go to the priests. The first samples of each grain harvest and the first of your flour must also be given to the priests so the Lord will bless your homes.

So how does the first of ripe fruits translate to first salary or money besides are christians even under the mosaic laws that this commandment was given?

away4real:

Quote from: KunleOshob on Today at 11:40:29 AM
To answer this question, please be reminded that Abraham came from the city of Ur in babylonia(genesis 11:31). Tithes was a common tradition amongst the babylonian people of that time and it was normally given to kings and rulers. Please note that Melchizedek whom abraham gave tithes to was the King of Salem. In short Abraham's tithe was as a result of babylonian tradition and NOT a religious injunction. To know more about "babylonian tithes" just do a googlr search on it and the facts would present themselves

Melchizedek is a KING and a PRIEST

Jesus is a PRIEST in the order of Melchizedek and KING OF KINGS.

Tithing is in order. It predates the Law, its one of the ways of GIVING to GOD, as well as FIRST FRUIT which is the topic. Like I said before your resources must go into 3 places: GOD, SELF and OTHERS. Your understanding of how to give in these 3 ways will help you in your in your giving. Even the giving to SELF many people still do not understand how but thought they do.

KunleOshob:

I don't know why you are hell bent on remaining in your ignorance and also this your perpetual penchant to misrepresent me is indeed nauseating. I never said melchizedek was not a priest what i emphasized is that Abraham gave him a tithe becos he was a King as that was the baylonian custom (Abraham was from Ur in babylonia) of that time. There was definetly noting in that passage to suggest he gave melchizedek tithes becos he was a priest. [/b]i also went to explain that as a prophet of the most high who had direct access to him, he didn't need to go thru melchizedek to make an offering to God.

Where are you getting your allusion that this was a babylonian custom and not done to a Priest?

Certainly not from the bible:

Hebrews 7:1-2

For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, [b]priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

Psalm 110:4

The LORD has sworn And will not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Unless it was a 'Babylonian custom' to give tithes to the Priest of the Most High God, then you are again grasping at straws.

Why must you seek to distort the bible to support your arguments? Abraham's act was an act of FAITH towards God, not a Babylonian custom.

EOA:

Melchizedek is a KING and a PRIEST

Jesus is a PRIEST in the order of Melchizedek and KING OF KINGS.

Tithing is in order. It predates the Law, its one of the ways of GIVING to GOD, as well as FIRST FRUIT which is the topic. Like I said before your resources must go into 3 places: GOD, SELF and OTHERS. Your understanding of how to give in these 3 ways will help you in your in your giving. Even the giving to SELF many people still do not understand how but thought they do.

Whether the custom of tithes predates the law or not christians ar not mandated to tithe any where in the bible. At best tithing should be optional becuase it as no basis in christian teachings in the bible. besides the way jesus recomend we give to God is by giving to the poor and the needy and NOT pastors and churches. So if you really want to give to God give your so called tithes to the poor and needy.

Matthew 25:35-40:
35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[a] you were doing it to me!’

debosky:

[b]Where are you getting your allusion that this was a babylonian custom and not done to a Priest?[/b]Certainly not from the bible:

Unless it was a 'Babylonian custom' to give tithes to the Priest of the Most High God, then you are again grasping at straws.

Why must you seek to distort the bible to support your arguments? Abraham's act was an act of FAITH towards God, not a Babylonian custom.

As i said in my original post there is no indication that Abraham gave melchizedek a tithe as a religious rite, rather there is ample evidence that tithe was a babylonian custom were abraham came from. Even though melchizedek was a priest of the most high he was also a king and tithes were paid to kings then as a form of tax. Also note that God deed not instruct Abraham to tithe to melchizedek he did it of his own volition.

ou can read more on Abraham's babylonian tithes below:
http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/tithe-in-bible/abram-and-jacob.html
http://www.come-and-hear.com/babamezia/babamezia_90.html
http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/bchp-tithes/tithes_2.html

KunleOshob:

Also note that God deed not instruct Abraham to tithe to melchizedek he did it of his own volition.

Who said it was compulsory? It was an act of FAITH - not a tax paid to anyone.

KunleOshob:

As i said in my original post there is no indication that Abraham gave melchizedek a tithe as a religious rite, rather there is ample evidence that tithe was a babylonian custom were abraham came from. Even though melchizedek was a priest of the most high he was also a king and tithes were paid to kings then as a form of tax. Also note that God deed not instruct Abraham to tithe to melchizedek he did it of his own volition.

IF there is no indication in the passage, it is clearly settled in Hebrews 7:2 that it WAS a 'religious act'. If it was not a 'religious act' towards God, how on earth would Levi be regarded as paying tithes while in the loins of Abraham??

The Babylonian reference is IRRELEVANT to the tithe giving of Abraham to Melchizedek clearly because Hebrews 7:2 elucidates it for us:

Tithes were given after Melchizedek (a Priest of God) blessed him, so that is [b]DEFINITELY a religious act to GOD [/b]and not a tax or babylonian custom - people don't give taxes by volition!! It's like saying sacrifices were a Babylonian custom and Abraham offering sacrifices to God was not religious, he was simply obeying customs?

Once again, don't twist things to suit your point - it is irrefutable that Abraham's act was in response to the blessings given unto him by the Priest of God. This predates giving of tithes by Mosaic Law and can be validly recognised as an act of FAITH by Abraham.

@Debosky
I am not twisting anything i am just putting the tithe Abraham paid into proper perspective cause wether you like it or not it was a babylonian custom were Abraham came from. That apart i think it is absolutely mischievious and also twisting of the scripture to try and justify the fraudulent preaching of tithes in today's churches with the one off tithe abraham paid with from his bounty in a war. There is NO record that it was instructed to him by God neither is there any instruction there that the practise must be continued perpetually. Abraham did not give a tithe to Melchizedek as a result of faith ( as most pastors lie to us) he gave a tithe becos Melchizedek gave him bread and wine and blessed him. The tithe was in response to that gesture. Evidently bringing up this unrelated issue of Abraham's tithe is a desperate attempt by preachers to hoodwink christians into parting with ten per cent of their income as it as now been established by more enlightened christians that christians are not under any obligation to obey the law(tithe inclusive) and that their unpopular Malachi 3:8-10 was clearly not directed at christians.

Ok oh! How many times did Abraham pay tithe or even Jacob? How many times did Peter, Paul and other apostles pay tithe?
Christ had paid the price my good people, and this was once and for all. He is the door through which our blessings flow. The window that blessings flew for people in the old testament who paid tithes was not for us christians since we have JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY DOOR TO THE FATHER.
Paying Tithe can never be the way for our blessings!