chaircover:

Serubawon I really dont know what to say. Many men claim that they cheat because wifey isnt has hot as she used to be etc.

Why dont men just come out and tell their wives what exactly they want.

One of the most difficult things for couples is being honest to each other. Honest about their pasts, preferences, everything. Look at a lot of christian marriages. The issue of sex is killing these marriages (unless we want to deceive ourselves), all because each partner never came clean on what they like or expect from each other in the bedroom. God's most enjoyable gift to a married couple is sex (remember, you're supposed to abstain before marriage o). Because you can't engage in sex doesn't mean you can't talk about it. Some couples never express any form of affection when they date and court. Read the Songs of Solomon and see how the bible shows you serious spiritual toasting (and you don't have to fornicate either). The more you abstain from having sex with your partner before marriage, the more both of you build up trust for each other because you both want it, but refrain from it because you respect God and each other. Trust me, you can have an explosively active sex life as a christian married couple and you don't need to test drive each other either before you get married. It's very possible, but you have to be honest with each other. Discuss your preferences, so there isn't any 'unexpected surprise' when you do get married.

I guess I'll keep quiet now before I start a war here.

@Serubobo

Preach!!!

serubawon:

One of the most difficult things for couples is being honest to each other. Honest about their pasts, preferences, everything. Look at a lot of christian marriages. The issue of sex is killing these marriages (unless we want to deceive ourselves), all because each partner never came clean on what they like or expect from each other in the bedroom. God's most enjoyable gift to a married couple is sex ([size=14pt]remember, you're supposed to abstain before marriage o). Because you can't engage in sex doesn't mean you can't talk about it[/size].

That is fornication in the Bible, surely

serubawon:

Some couples never express any form of affection when they date and court. Read the Songs of Solomon and see how the bible shows you serious spiritual toasting (and you don't have to fornicate either). The more you abstain from Being Intimate with your partner before marriage, the more both of you build up trust for each other because you both want it, but refrain from it because you respect God and each other. Trust me, you can have an [size=14pt]explosively active sex life as a christian married couple[/size] and you don't need to test drive each other either before you get married. It's very possible, but you have to be honest with each other. Discuss your preferences, so there isn't any 'unexpected surprise' when you do get married.

I guess I'll keep quiet now before I start a war here.

Ehn hen, me I am liking this Christianity more and more everyday oh No wonder Jennykadry started salivating that you should keep preaching Who nor like better thing

jennykadry:

@Serubobo

Preach!!!

Shhhhh, sermon in session

Sister Chaircover, keep 'em ^{and I mean 'em related ones only} questions coming

Oya Brother Serubawon keep preaching

.

Not to rain on serubawon's parade, you can't really know what your 'preferences' are before marriage if you haven't had sex.

e.g How do I know I prefer jennyk with reverse cowgirl instead of chandelier if I haven't experienced both before?

Even if I express a preference, if my partner hasn't tried it before, how do I know she'll like it or be willing to try it after we get married?

I do get your drift though, you can start talking about these things beforehand, but the key is to experiment (once married) and keep talking about it when you get married. Unfortunately some people are bringing 'church mind' into the bedroom and it's causing men and women to go elsewhere for satisfaction.

.

chaircover:

ewo tun ni reverse cowgirl . . . I better google that one quick

CC you cracked me up on that! Debosky please come and explain quick!



@Debosky, that, ironically, is one of the thrills of marriage! Believe me. The very fact that you both are novices and inexperienced fires up the passion in you both. Whatever I knew, it all started with my wife and vice-versa. Nothing to compare with, no pre-knowledge of how it should be, except the theories learnt in books. We grew at our own pace and learnt what works for us all by ourselves.

The bedroom then becomes a laboratory of experiments- when we try a new trick and it seems obvious it is meant for gymnasts, we simply have the laughter of our lives and call it a day! Afterall, she is not running away. We have had to modify styles and positions to suite us, even in pregnancy! If she doesn't like one, then fabricate another, abi?

It is a good feeling to be able to have a mind-blowing satisfaction and still be able to pray right in the midst of it all. That is what a christian marriage is. I wonder why it is such a hushed up topic even in our churches!

chaircover:

Infact my lingerie order just arrived yesterday and I am counting down to our dirty weekend away on Friday. I found this site on google and I am definitely going to practice some of the styles 

I heard that there is no marriage in Heaven so I am going to make sure that I get my moneys worth from this guy 

Abeg softly on Mr Chaircover o!  Just make sure you reserve some strength for him to resume work on Monday o.

You actually heard correctly.  Angels must be jealous of us human beings in that regard. 

@Serubawon please preach to the congregation methods on how to keep the bedroom temperature sizzling. It will be nice to hear it from a mans point of view

Where is Serubawon when you need him most?  I don't want to crash into your sermon o.  Please come so that we can pray at the end of the service and share grace lol!!!!

Ask JennyK oh. . . .I didn't know what it was until she unleashed it on me in the bedroom.

You can tell certain things about your partner beforehand, but only in 'practice' do you really know who they are. What you should aim for is someone with an open mind who is willing to experiment and go an a journey of discovery. Unfortunately some women are programmed to be logs of wood/men taught to only do missionary as other styles are devilish

I think it's a hushed up topic because sex is STILL seen as something 'bad' in a sense, or something only 'unspiritual' people crave after. In addition some men backwardly feel if a woman is adventurous in bed she's been learning those things with other men (although this doesn't prevent them enjoying adventurous girlfriends in bed).

I remembered a funny sermon about a wife constantly being 'on the mountain' (fasting for those who don't speak Christianese ) and thus denying her hubby access. . . .the husband felt compelled to tell her reduce her time the mountain or else he might need to get his groove on elsewhere.

So where is Jennykadry when you need her?

Spouses are meant to meet the needs of each other.  Not only should they be willing patners, they should be willing explorers in the journey of discovery (according to Debosky!) that marriage is.  It's a lifetime of exploration where one should keep discovering things.

The Holy God created sex to be enjoyed in the right context (of marriage).  Like CC will say, there is nothing unholy between spouses in the bedroom.  Adam saw Eve and couldn't keep his excitement, they were both n[size=1pt].[/size]aked and were not ashamed.  The woman in that your sermon is not only unspiritual and immature, she is actually commiting sin by denying the husband!!  If she has to 'go to the mountain' the husband has to grant her the permission in that regard, else she is defrauding him.

Analytical:


Where is Serubawon when you need him most?  I don't want to crash into your sermon o.  Please come so that we can pray at the end of the service and share grace lol!!!!

Sorry o. Na time difference and work o. I knew I was going to start something here with this.

chaircover:

A pastor opened my eyes to this a long time ago when he preached that there is nothing X-rated between a married couple behind closed doors  

Infact my lingerie order just arrived yesterday and I am counting down to our dirty weekend away on Friday. I found this site on google and I am definitely going to practice some of the styles 

I heard that there is no marriage in Heaven so I am going to make sure that I get my moneys worth from this guy 

@Serubawon please preach to the congregation methods on how to keep the bedroom temperature sizzling. It will be nice to hear it from a mans point of view 

BB was that a good enough jamb spiritual queshon?

@Chaircover. Uummmm, I think you're beginning to scare us now. Softly, softly o.

A good marriage operates like a computer; "garbage in, garbage out". You get exactly what you put in. I can only speak for myself. When I got married, there was a big difference in experience level between myself and my late wife. She was a virgin and I was a @#$%#$#@. I must confess that I'm one of those men that has a high libido and I think about sex constantly. It's ridiculous, but I had a vivid imagination that just wouldn't switch off. My biggest fear was that she might not be able to meet up with my expectations, but wetin concern me; I loved that woman. Now this is where communication helps. We talked about EVERYTHING concerning sex. There were days when she would look at me and try to figure out how I had dodged HIV etc with the way I had lived my life, but to God be the glory.

If you and your partner are in sync, you'll know the kind of sexual nature that person has. Even though we didn't have sex before marriage, it was pure hell. I almost ran crazy and she would actually make fun of me about it. We then started this game where I would tell her that she could make fun of me as much as she wanted, but when we got married, payback would be so sweet. She would say "bring it on" and we made jokes on how we would demolish each other when the time was right.

Even though I had my fears, I must confess that I had absolutely nothing to worry about. Because we talked about it and we did everything but have sex, it was amazing. I had to start playing catch-up because she wasn't playing. I remember something she said that really humbled me. She said that she knew that I was over-experienced and she was zero experienced, but all I had to do was to tell her what I wanted from her and she would do it. Now, I'm not a sex freak with crazy ideas and I would never let her (or any woman) do anything that she didn't want to freely. It's all about you having your partner in mind and vice-versa. If each party went all out to please the other, you can't miss it.

In the letter of Paul to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 7:3-5), it shows how you shouldn't deny your spouse the gift of love (unless it is by mutual consent). A lot of us get married to beauty (both male and female) and it fades. Once that goes, the marriage is over. My late wife was beautiful (big time), but when I met her, it wasn't the beauty I was accustomed to. I fell in love with her spirit and her personality. The beauty was a positive add-on. The interesting thing was that after 2 kids and of course a little more weight, each year, I saw her looking even more beautiful than when I met her. I believe that was because I was interested in her inner beauty and not the physical.

Answering Chaircovers question; the more work you put into your marriage, the more the fulfillment that you get. Nobody ever said marriage was easy. Our marriages are just like college exams. The more you study and understand the subject, the better your grade becomes. People think marriages work out automatically. Not true. You have to sacrifice a lot to make it work. Unfortunately, a lot of men are not committed to making that sacrifice and that's why they start venturing outside their marriages.

Ok, I think I'm becoming long-winded again. Hope the sermon was worth it.

you people should take it easy o with these xrated talk jor, me i neva be disvirgined o

@ Analytical

"there is nothing unholy between spouses in the bedroom."


some heterosexual people see nothing wrong in anal sex, in that your quote above, if a married couple wants to practice/experiment with anal sex, would you still stand by that quote?

Sissy, this is no xrated talk o. In fact we are in the middle of a sermon! It's all part and parcel of marriage and we are talking about marriage. The talk is even greatly toned down

I knew I was courting some trouble with that statement. Let God be true and all men liars. I believe there is nothing unholy in marriage between husband and wife. Adam and Eve had nothing to be ashamed of. They were free to experiment with each other and find out whatever pleases and pleasures both. A wife's body belongs to her husband and vice-versa. There is nothing wrong if I touch my wife's ears and I don't think it becomes a sin if I decide to touch her any other place. One of the reasons why we marry is to avoid immorality. So if the couple is comfortable with that then so be it.

However, there are certain other principles that should guide us in dealing with each other. We are supposed to look for each others' pleasure not pain. It means whatever causes the other pain or the other is not comfortable with or is dehumanising or unhygenic should be discarded. Since we are talking of love between both, then love it should be- it is patient, not selfish, doesn't seek its own, is kind etc 1 Corinthians 13).

Also, 'do unto others what you want them do unto you' is apt here. No one wants to be brutalised. So any act of brutality during the process is not love. There are many things spouses could do to and with each other without crossing the border into brutality and bondage. We make use of our imagination. The scripture says, whatever is pure, honest, lovely, right, and of good report, we should think of them; marriage and its components inclusive.

Having said these, I know a lot of people have some inhibitions, probably due to upbringing, trauma, or lack of understanding and not necessarily because sex is a sin or evil. Such issues should be brought out and discussed openly and freely between the couple so that it could be overcome. Then they can truly enjoy God's gift to man without shame or fear!

Serubawon, the sermon cannot just end like that na! I hope questions are allowed in this sermon. Madam CC asked for methods to keep the bedroom temperature sizzling and I think you are playing it safe! Please start the war here and don't keep quiet. It's a holy war, as long as it provokes and inspires us and others to love our spouses the more and commit to the covenant we entered into with each other.

@ Analytical, CC and co, i have learnt a whole lot from this end of the thread, tho not married

But Serubawon, i am a xtian, and used to crack such jokes ( as u used to with ur wife abt s** before marriage) with my fiance, and one day a few weeks ago, we went a bit too far ( and i mean all d way). As it was my first time, i was in shock and cld not almost believe he will do that but i guess i was so naive,

Right now, i do not hate him, i am not so sure i want to continue with the engagement, i really want out and i have told him as much. Not because i want to punish him or any of such, i do not want a repeat and i think if i do not take any action my xtianity might just go downhill from here.

I know God loves me, and i know all about forgiveness, the issue is me: my sense of personal failure.

There have been issues ( me praying to knw if i was in God's exact will in the relationship) and now i think it is time to bail out.

This is the first time in weeks, i could bring myself to talk about it, luckily i am not pregnant or such, its almost a month ago.

I am 25, with a good job and all i want in life is to please God, leave a happy and clean life, why is it so difficult( i broke up with my ex because he was always pushing for s**, but have known my fiance for abt 5 years, we have been together for about 13 months before this happened last month.


, I will really appreciate whatever words of advice, criticism, lashings et al, lol,

, so happy to be able to finally let this burden out

@Souldiva, I feel for you.  In courtship we ought to keep ourselves under leash and unleash in marriage.  That is why although I expect issues to be discussed (including sex) during courtship/engagement, I wouldn't advise singles to go into the explicit and intricate specifics of lovemaking during that period.  Of what use is fantasizing about what you cannot experiment?  The end result is that you reach a point of no return and you tip over!

One can and should have a general knowledge or discuss about it but you go overboard when you begin to dwell on and imagine the act day to day.  Remember Philippians 4: 8 "Whatsoever is pure, holy, right . . ." etc is what you are to think about.  That is one difference between courtship and marriage.  The reason is because we are humans and as such have hormones that secret based on the thoughts and emotions that flow as a result, leading to bodies that react!  You cannot get near fire and not be burned.  One should learn to draw the line between affection and lust.  One is wholesome, the other is sinful.  You don't resist lust, you flee from it.

The deed is already done.  I am not going to lash you.  It will not help you in any way.  I will admonish you.  Before I do that let me ask a couple of questions so that I can get a good picture:

- Did he force you or is it with your consent?
- Is he a believer as well?
- What was delaying the marriage (you seem ready)?

@ Souldiva

I agree with much of what Analytical has said, I'll chip in a little.

Don't let your sense of failure bring you down to the point you want to give up - that is not godly sorrow as godly sorrow leads to repentance without regret while worldly sorrow is what leads to such low feelings and death.

I think you should think carefully before deciding whether to end the relationship or not - if the only issue is the sexx, then seek for forgiveness, get married as soon as you can (if you are ready) to avoid falling into sin again.

However, if there are serious issues, please focus on working out those issues and don't simply bail out because of this incident. You are in a better position to evaluate the relationship as a whole, so do so in a prayerful way.

It is cause of stuff like what SoulDiva just said, that is why i do not believe in "that" kind of play. Yes, discuss sex but the play should not be too hot.

@Souldiva, i understand where you are coming from. I will advise you to give yourselves space. Take time out and really pray and seek God's face. If the guy is who God wants you to end up with then hurry up with your wedding plans. If the guy is not then pick yourself up and move on. Do not let the occasion arise again. I can assure you that next time you guys are alone and start "playing", it will be easier to continue having sex.

I personally do not believe in playing with sex or trying to come as close to having sex without actually having sex as long as you guys are not married.

@ Analytical, in response to your questions
1, i was not forced, neither was it with my explicit consent,  i think it was a case of mischief gone too far. on both sides. Before this, let me just say, we have gone too far, too many times, each trusting the other to keep sanity and on this paticular day, he didnt keep sanity ( dis is not judgemental, just trying to  say it as it is, without getting so emotional) this is why i cannot blame him. We share the blame.

2, Whats stopping the marriage, financially, he is not so ready; and maybe we both are not so sure; there is an issue of  commitment with different denominations ( i am like within the pastorate in my denomination and he is just finishing his workers in training in his denomination ( didnt i know this before? I did, i have tried to make him realise how difficult it will be for me  to leave mine, except he becomes so very active in his church and his commitment will give me the assurance that i can fulfill my ministry in his denomination)

3, He is a believer, but a much recent one dan me ( the sad truth was, he gave his life to christ 3 years ago after meeting me; he alwayas said, despite all the preechings he has heard all the years nothing touched his act, until we became friends. he asked me out for 4 years and until i was sure of his commitment to christ before i accept. ( i think this bit express why i feel like i have failed not God but him)


@ dabosky, i totally accept ur thot of spiritual sorrow, and i am coming to a place of acceptance slowly, You asked me to evaluate the relationship, i am; and the details for my reticience is much complicated than could be expressed here ( a la public forum, u neva knw). But leaving will help me re-pirioritise my life, deal with the scars my actions in this past few month have caused, i kinda think better when alone.

Now, i really dont feel like heading up the altar to lead services or prayers of such, but the amazing thing is, when i do ], there seem so much annointing( permit my christianese),  i guess it comes from knowing that the only thing that keep my righteousness is his grace.

@ blank, thanks for your advise, it is just because of wat u just said that i decide to quit.

, apologies for the longhand, its kinda very therapeutic to be able to discuss this

Apologies for mixing up the years, we met septemner 2007, i guess thats 4 years ago, just to set the record straight.

@souldiva.

Just as Analytical said, I feel for you and who are we to judge.  We have all committed mistakes in our past, some worse, some less.  However, as he said the deed has been done and you have to move on from that point.  The question is where?

In Nigeria, I attended The Fountain of Life Church and I was truly blessed by the teachings of the late Pst Bimbo Odukoya.  I believe that God sent that woman as a message of hope to my generation and our duty is to pass the message on.  One thing she taught men was that if you cannot discipline yourself towards your partner before marriage, then you are not a man, but a boy.  No matter how fired up your emotions are, the 1st duty you have towards your partner is to respect and protect her.  If you truly love her, you will not defile her in any way.  If you can't respect and protect before marriage, you definitely won't do it during marriage.

A lot of Christians have had your problem and carry the burden like a cross.  First thing I want you to know is that God has forgiven you!.  Now, the hardest part is for you to forgive yourself.  If you can't forgive yourself, it is going to be very hard for you to move on with your life, because the guilt will haunt you every step you take.  Analytical asked you 3 questions:

- Did he force you or is it with your consent?
- Is he a believer as well?
- What was delaying the marriage (you seem ready)?

Sometimes, we are the cause of our misfortunes.  If you and your fiance know that your passions are so strong when you are together, then ensure that you are never alone together.  It might sound harsh, but as the bible says "flee every appearance of evil"  Some people are strong willed and have a conviction that they will never cross the line.  Some people think they are strong willed and find themselves in trouble very quickly.  Once you know that you and your fiance cannot handle your passions, please don't be alone together for any reason.  It's the only way out.  Whether he visits you or the other way around, make sure a 3rd party is around to act as chaperone.  It might sound old fashioned, but trust me, it works.

If the answer to the 1st question is yes and he forced himself on you, then you have to re-evaluate your relationship immediately.  If he loves you, then he should protect you.  During my courtship, I had made a vow to God that I would not have sex with my wife-to-be.  It was hard and difficult, but that personal vow to God helped me personally.  Above everything, no matter how bad I wanted to sleep with her, I wanted to protect and respect her and I knew for a fact that I would never cross the line.  It has always been a source of pride for me and it was one of the main reasons my marriage was so successful.

If it was by dual consent, then you can't place all the blame on him.  It takes 2 to tango.

Second question, is he a believer?  If he truly is, then I'm sure he is going through the same guilt-ridden emotions as you are.  A mistake is a mistake.  Both of you can still continue, but you have to start all over again because the trust factor has to be rebuilt.  Sometimes, it is the mistakes we make that help us to become more successful, as long as we learn from them.  

Third question, what is the delay?  1 Corinthians 7:8-9.  Once you are convinced of your love for each other and you want to get married, don't delay and allow temptation to take control.  You have to understand that you are not robots and blood flows in your veins.  Take a step of faith, put God 1st and make the move.

All that being said, the problem still remains if you want to continue with the relationship.  If you are led by the Spirit to continue, my advice is as follows:

1.  Pray about it.
2.  Both of you have to discuss and reconcile (not alone this time).
3.  Discuss the issue with your Pastor and move on from there.

Different churches have different ways of dealing with a situation as this.  I pray you attend a spirit-filled, church and the Lord will guide you.  The fact that you made a mistake does not mean it's the end of the relationship.  It just allows you to know your weaknesses and where to focus your prayers on.  I hope and pray that you can find it in yourself to forgive yourself and your fiance and move on, depending on how those questions were answered.

Analytical:

Serubawon, the sermon cannot just end like that na! I hope questions are allowed in this sermon. Madam CC asked for methods to keep the bedroom temperature sizzling and I think you are playing it safe! Please start the war here and don't keep quiet. It's a holy war, as long as it provokes and inspires us and others to love our spouses the more and commit to the covenant we entered into with each other.

Ok. However, I think that we need to draw guidelines on what kind of questions will be asked and what answers will be given. I'm game to contribute the best way I can (and to try my best to keep things on an even keel).

chaircover:

A pastor opened my eyes to this a long time ago when he preached that there is nothing X-rated between a married couple behind closed doors  

Infact my lingerie order just arrived yesterday and I am counting down to our dirty weekend away on Friday. I found this site on google and I am definitely going to practice some of the styles 

I heard that there is no marriage in Heaven so I am going to make sure that I get my moneys worth from this guy 

@Serubawon please preach to the congregation methods on how to keep the bedroom temperature sizzling. It will be nice to hear it from a mans point of view 

BB was that a good enough jamb spiritual queshon?

@Chaircover. As I said, you are about to start a war. Me, I sabi fight well, well. So, fire on with the questions.

@Analytical. No be only me go dey answer questions o

@souldiva.

Take the advice Analytical gave me on another thread, don't be so hard on yourself. You make it seem like the battle is over. Trust me, you have just been given the spiritual ammunition to continue the battle. Look at all the success stories we read about everyday. Their successes emanated from their mistakes. I have a feeling that from now on, you are going to be stronger than ever.

@ Serubawon, Thanks so much for your thots, would keep them in mind, i will try not to be too hard on myself and i really hope that your expectation ( of me being stronger from now) proves through. Thanks a lot!

@souldiva, apologies not necessary.  You needed to let that out.  It helps.  You have been given great counsels by Serubawon, Debosky and blank that I don't think I need to add anything again.  Thank you guys for helping a wounded soul.

I like it when you said you share the blame.  Like Serubawon said, I would have said it's time to call it quits if he had forced you.  You see what I meant when I said you don't carry the explicit talks too far?  You got too close to the threshold and passion took over.

Please get back to God fast if you have not done so already.  Right now what you need is the warm embrace of your Father in heaven.  Get back to fellowship with Him.  It's a good sign you feel the conviction.  Please let it lead you to genuine repentance not just remorse.  Sure you will carry the scar, but it will get you to realise your humanity and that you need His grace instead of relying on your 'sanity' to help you.

Then, follow the Serubawon's counsel.  You need to forgive him and yourself.  He also needs to come back to God.  Then you can truly start afresh if he is sincere.  For the fact that things have been sliding gradually before this, follow his advice and take precaution not to be alone together.  I would also suggest a little separation for now till you get back to your feet.

I sincerely feel your predicament in letting him and God down, moreso when you were expected to show him a more matured christian example.  Your being in the pastorate is not going to make it easy for you.  It is expected that you wll open up to the leadership about it.  That I know is the practice in most churches (not orthodox).  Sincerely, sometimes, this has the effect of breaking people rather than making them.  I have seen examples of people that will rather leave the church.  So get ready for a difficult time from the church and brethren as a result, especially because much was expected from you.

If your fiance is also helped to his feet and is truly repentant, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't continue your relationship and get married as quickly as you can.  If finances only is the problem I don't think it's that much of a problem.  The denomination issue can be settled between you two.  You guys just have to agree on where to fellowship, his or yours.  Compromise is one of the bedrocks of successful marriage.  You let go of some and he too.

Right now, I think you should let go of ministering in this state.  You don't want to be offering strange fire upon the altar!  Reconciliation with God should be your priority not public ministry.  I can only pray for grace for you at these times.  That the God of heaven will have mercy on you and take you back to the place of fellowship with Him and grant you grace to continue the race.

Know that a champion is not without scars and bruises.  (S)he it is, who was knocked down but not out, bruised and battered but not given up, fallen but rising again.  Rise up, champion, fight th good fight and don't give up.

.

serubawon:

@Analytical. No be only me go dey answer questions o

You have my back!

@souldiva I found this book The God of the Second Chance: Starting Fresh with God's Forgiveness by Greg Laurie

You may want to read it.

.

^^ Not all women would co-operate.

Many women still feel it's wrong to engage in some 'forbidden' acts such as oral, and some actually think that 'only hos do that' when it comes to some things in the bedroom.

If some men are already having to beg their wife for a 'slot' in their busy schedules, do you think such men will now go to the extent of saying I want Texas Backflip or Russian Roulette in bed?

I'm not excusing it at all, but some women do make it hard for the man (no pun intended ).