TheGoodJoe:


Mikel improved massively. To go from a creative midfielder to a defensive midfielder who reads the game with pin point accuracy is not beans. It took a lot of work and coaching.

Joebie:
You are only reiterating what I have said in different words..

However, converting a youthful player from creative midfield to defensive midfield does not mean he improved massively. That's just a role change which he handled very well. It's a one time change that he maintained through his career at Chelsea. Mikel is not a a good example of player development sorry. Please let's not confuse this discussion with whether Mikel is a great player or not.

TheGoodJoe:


Mikel’s development in the defensive midfield role can be pin pointed. A good example was how he used to tackle recklessly because he could not meet up with the pace of creative opposing players. Remember how Mikel used to get red carded. With time, Mikel became too tidy. Could go over ten games without a card.

TheGoodJoe:


When Mikel was converted to a four, he was poor in it and then developed massively to one of the best. The red card issue is a clear sign of his improvement. You can see he grew in it. It reached a time Mikel was playing there and completing more passes than Paul Scholes and Xabi Alonso in the EPL.

The young man improved in leaps.

Joebie:
Good question. I'm not saying he did not develop over the years. You can imply it. It can be assumed. It can be expected. It can be suspected. You can say he must have developed over those years. But it can hardly be pinpointed. That's the point you are still missing. Which is why it will be hard for anyone to state his progression over that period. In what areas did his game dramatically improve or gradually improve over that time line. When I think of player development, I think of time line and how they have progressed from one stage to another, and to the next. That's my point.

Joebie:
Obasi no progress? You are talking as if he has been in the Scandanavia all these years..lol

You want me to to youtube Obasi Bundesliga goals. He's had a injury troubled career. He actually developed as a player. Don't deny that just because he seems to be trying to pick up the pieces for the second season in a row in Sweden. It's hard for your stock to rise with all those injuries. At some point you will have to track back.

Like I said Mikel did not develop SIGNIFICANTLY -- and there is a reason why that word is in uppercase. Think about it for a minute. Let's say it as it is.

Icon4s:


Did I ever say Obasi did not progress?

Go back to that my comment you quoted from and read it slowly.

What do you mean by "significantly" you want to compare the competition at youth level to that of senior level?

Why have Isaac Success, Iheanacho and Yahaya not been scoring the kind of goals they scored at junior levels? Would you also say they haven't developed 'SIGNIFICANTLY'?

Mickael2:


you do understand that Obasi played for Schalke when Schalke used to frequent the champions league everyother season.

And Mikel's style of play hasn't changed one bit in a while, that's why most Chelsea fans will want him gone once a new toy is acquired not that he isn't good but most times he is rigid. Now let's compare that with a player that has actually developed.....Griezman. I remember Griezmann at the U20 world cup, he was more concerned with running the show in the midfield and he wasn't bad there, caused Nigeria all sorts of trouble, then he moved to Real Sociedad and became an outright winger, crossing the ball at every opportunity, running at defenders and beating them, two or even three of them at a time unlike the way he used to during the U20, then he went to Madrid and now he hardly crosses the ball, he has turned to a deadly goal poacher. If you watch his U20 clips( Lacazette and Kakuta were the best players for that France set) and his recent clips you will see just how well he has improved his game. Mikel on the hand has even regressed, he used to make 6-7 through passes during his U20 years now that is gone, he had an eye for goal now that has largely diminished(you can still see flashes of it like the goal against Uruguay and Algeria)so no Mikel hasn't developed much

Mickael2:


you do understand that Obasi played for Schalke when Schalke used to frequent the champions league everyother season.

And Mikel's style of play hasn't changed one bit in a while, that's why most Chelsea fans will want him gone once a new toy is acquired not that he isn't good but most times he is rigid. Now let's compare that with a player that has actually developed.....Griezman. I remember Griezmann at the U20 world cup, he was more concerned with running the show in the midfield and he wasn't bad there, caused Nigeria all sorts of trouble, then he moved to Real Sociedad and became an outright winger, crossing the ball at every opportunity, running at defenders and beating them, two or even three of them at a time unlike the way he used to during the U20, then he went to Madrid and now he hardly crosses the ball, he has turned to a deadly goal poacher. If you watch his U20 clips( Lacazette and Kakuta were the best players for that France set) and his recent clips you will see just how well he has improved his game. Mikel on the hand has even regressed, he used to make 6-7 through passes during his U20 years now that is gone, he had an eye for goal now that has largely diminished(you can still see flashes of it like the goal against Uruguay and Algeria)so no Mikel hasn't developed much

goldfish80:
I think some of us are going about this league comparison the wrong way. I have been critical of some Nigerian players transferring to Turkey but the truth is that Turkish league is well ahead of Belgium Pro league.
My reason is that the Belgian league is structured more like Europe's development league, where clubs come around and poach talents from. Their buisness strategy is to get young players with the aim of developing them for unward sale for profit. This explains why the transfer record in Belgium stands at €5.5M.

Compared to Turkey, where their buisness strategy is to spend money and attract stars to their league. Their clubs are basically better financed, which is evident on their transfer record towering at €17M with tons of transfer in excess of €10M (recall Belgium Pro league transfer record stands at €5.5M).

Truth is that football players find Turkey more attractive than say Belgium because of the better pay package. I know some will have a problem with this, but we must understand that not everyone in Belgium get transfered to the Premiership and La liga.
Football is a buisness after all. Ask Neymar.

Joebie:
Musa from CSKA to Leicester nko? Make our boys study EPL tape well well before they even consider it.. While some players can adapt, many can't oh. It's not about how good you are, EPL league just has one kind intensity and gra gra. I was always skeptical about the Musa move.

Modified.
Let's not forget Ndidi. He has done excellently well in the EPL.

wayodude:


Amateur viewers only watch TV and feel that is all that count

As you seem very generous with your use of the words amateur and amateurish in reference to other people's views, let's find our abit more about your association with the game.

I will start off this one. 1 have not played professionally but I have played and officiated for less well known clubs in England. I am involved in coaching kids in south west london during term time and I have written the odd column in football publications. I have held Trueblue membership at Chelsea for well over a decade and see 20+ games every season live mostly @ the East Stand Upper. I don't know everything but I know a fair bit about the game. Your turn.

Back to the debate at hand. I used Wilshere and Sturridge as examples of players who arguably benefitted MORE from PLAYING week in week out then playing peripheral roles at their parent club. I DID NOT even remotely suggest that both weren't excellent prospects or players before going out on loan.

The '90 minutes' games did not mould them into being the players they became. And again I did not say it did. What it did was give them the OPPORTUNITY and CONFIDENCE to do what they were always capable of and also a chance to MATURE by playing with the big boys instead of U21 football. By the way I had known about Wilshere before he signed for Arsenal. He was known all over Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire as a 'future England player' even at 11 years old.

In my opinion Owen Coyle did more in developing both of the above examples than Arsenal or Chelsea ever did. Another example is Lukaku, who would we say 'trained' him or 'moulded' him, Anderlecht? Chelsea? West Brom? Everton? Or maybe even Mourinho at Man Utd?

He has ALWAYS been an exceptional talent and attributing his development to any one manager or more to one than another would be fraud in my book. He scored tons of goals playing for West Brom as a 19 year old!

Like his false 9, Pep Guardiola is a false prophet and is scared to pieces of being found out he has gone hyper! In one year (1 YEAR!!!) at Manchester City he has signed:

Mendy - £50m
Stones - £50m
Walker - £45m
Sane - £43m
B Silva - £43m
Ederson - £34
Jesus - £27m
Danilo - £26m
Gundogan - 23m
Bravo - £16m
Nolito - £15m
Douglas Luis - £10m
M Moreno- £5m
G Rulli - £4m
Etc etc
Dude has squandered over £400m on what was already a world class team in just 12 months. I am amazed.

TheGoodJoe:


So do not analyse and say Playing games made Sturridge and Wilshere develop who they became. The work behind the scenes moulded them even before they arrived Bolton. Owen Coyle did the final grooming and showed the World how exceptional they are.

tbaba1234:


And you are suggesting that a player who played at the highest level for 10 years did not move through the stages??

Mikel did not reach the peak of his potential but he became to be a important player for the National team and a top club side. Not all youth team players even do that.

So yes, He did develop significantly just not to your expectation.

TheGoodJoe:


So do not analyse and say Playing games made Sturridge and Wilshere develop who they became. The work behind the scenes moulded them even before they arrived Bolton. Owen Coyle did the final grooming and showed the World how exceptional they are.

AIG07:
I don't fancy our chances with these Anglo Nigerians. Most, if not all prefer serving the Queen-so no dedication to us even if we later cap them and they most time drag the green white green in muddy waters before accepting our offers after it's down on them that they don't have future/chance with the 3 Lions.

So I say we give call to the interested ones-but let them show it first!

komekn:


Sorry where this matter of Sturridge and Wilshire is concerned you are wrong. I concur largely with Wayodude.

It's like saying that Barkley and Rooney were developed by Everton. They were just at Everton, I know for a fact that the Everton coaches can not teach personal technique. However, positional play, team strategy but individual technical ability and trickery a No, resounding no.

Sturridge to at a stage use to train on his own as a youth player. I know his coach when he was at Villa before he moved to City. So Sturridge I know wellnot hear say.

At one stage I use to think TheGoodJoe was permanently resident in Manchester the way you talk with so much authority, I even planned meet you at one the locals in my head, but I know better now. I'll tell you at one stage I was at Manchester academy 3/4 times a week at Platt lane before they moved to the new site next door the stadium. So I probably know at least 60% of the youth coaches at City.

The coaches there in my opinion were at least 3/4 stages below a lot of Nigerian coaches I know. Particularly when it comes to teaching personal technique and trickery.


Owen Coyle I know well wellu and he is in my opinion a milk man clueless. When it comes to person technical ability you will learn much much more playing at a local academy at Ikpeba hill in Benin- City. Owen taught Sturridge Zero nuttin beyond giving him the chance to play at Bolton. Infact Sturridge did more for Owen than he did for him, without Sturridge Bolton would have probably been relegated.

komekn:


Sorry where this matter of Sturridge and Wilshire is concerned you are wrong. I concur largely with Wayodude.

It's like saying that Barkley and Rooney were developed by Everton. They were just at Everton, I know for a fact that the Everton coaches can not teach personal technique. However, positional play, team strategy but individual technical ability and trickery a No, resounding no.

Sturridge to at a stage use to train on his own as a youth player. I know his coach when he was at Villa before he moved to City. So Sturridge I know wellnot hear say.

At one stage I use to think TheGoodJoe was permanently resident in Manchester the way you talk with so much authority, I even planned meet you at one the locals in my head, but I know better now. I'll tell you at one stage I was at Manchester academy 3/4 times a week at Platt lane before they moved to the new site next door the stadium. So I probably know at least 60% of the youth coaches at City.

The coaches there in my opinion were at least 3/4 stages below a lot of Nigerian coaches I know. Particularly when it comes to teaching personal technique and trickery.


Owen Coyle I know well wellu and he is in my opinion a milk man clueless. When it comes to person technical ability you will learn much much more playing at a local academy at Ikpeba hill in Benin- City. Owen taught Sturridge Zero nuttin beyond giving him the chance to play at Bolton. Infact Sturridge did more for Owen than he did for him, without Sturridge Bolton would have probably been relegated.

TheGoodJoe:



You keep making all these condescending talks about the City coaches but despite the know-how you claim, there is obvious holes in your point. If City coaches are as poor as you make them, how how could they nurture someone like Phil Foden. When you look at the likes of Tosin Adarabioyo and others, you see quality coaching in them.

There is no need saying you know the coaches personally ad they are not good while their works speak for them.

Foden is thorough and poor coaches can not raise such quality. Is it not I think the Under 16 of City that dominated their division? Winning lots of games.

Then making Everton coaching look poor when they have churned out some quality young talents for a long time. From the first I remember, Michael Ball.

You think Alex Ferguson would pay a record fee for an uncoached teenager from Everton, Wayne Rooney. What you are writing there does not add up.

By the way, I was th one who told you I am based in Nigeria. Do not make it look as if you discovered it.

Joebie:
Dennis Bonaventure: Nigeria’s Next Big Soccer Star
Posted By: soccerasson: August 06, 2017In: The DugoutNo Comments Print Email
It’s an amazing era for football

We are in an epoch loaded with abundant young talent many being touted to achieve gargantuan levels of greatness. Nigeria is not left out

From Kelechi Iheanacho to Isaac Success to Henry Onyekuru, Victor Osimhen, Orji Okonkwo and Kelechi Nwakali and many more Nigeria has been blessed with a rush of talent between 18 to 21 years of age, a golden generation perhaps all touted to make it big a few years from now

To this elitist few we can comfortably add Emmanuel Dennis Bonaventure !

Born in Nigeria 19 years ago Dennis talent stood out at an early age and was one of the exceptional youngsters at the Football Academy Abuja while still only 15 and joining the Nigerian U-15 national team for an Eight-Nation Invitational Tournament in Mexico where he played alongside Kelechi Iheanacho, Chidera Eze, Taiwo Awoniyi among others before leaving the country a year later to the Ukraine

In the Ukraine with FC ‘Zorya’ the sensational midfielder, slowly developed an enviable profile for himself raking in 12 appearances for FC ‘Zorya’ in his season with three of those coming in the UEFA EUROPA League (although FC ‘Zorya’ failed to make it past the group stages of the EUROPA League. )

The then 18 year old got rave reviews from pundits across Europe for his performances against Manchester United (England), Feyenoord (Netherlands) and Fenerbahce (Turkey).

The reviews were also pouring in with Ukranian media highlighting his 5-star performance against Shahkter Donetsk in a game he was named in the Ukrainian premier league team of the week despite his team’s 1-2 defeat.

Wasn’t long after Club Brugge of Belgium came calling and won the youngster amid keen interest from the likes of Bourissa Dortmund

Dennis has been described as an exciting and electric player by those who should know, one capable of being the best in whatever league he plays

“Dennis is a player with great potential, he has made a lot of progress within a short time and proved every week as one of the best players in the league.” Said ex-Club Brugge star Sergiy Serebrennikov, who was involved in his transfer

“He is a lightning-fast striker with individual brilliance and also unpredictable.

He is ambitious and I am confident that he will shine in the Belgian league.”

Dennis has hit the ground running in Belgium from electrifying performances in preseason he has started the campaign proper like a true star scoring 3 goals in his 1st 2 competitive matches

He needed only six minutes to make his impact in the UEFA Champions League too

Blessed with unbelievable pace, strength and good dribbling abilities in addition to deft clinical finishing prowess, Dennis is every managers dream forward and although he has been criticized on occasion for his end product the youngster has put in the hard work and improved on his weakness

Nigerians should watch out for the player with jersey number 42.” Dr. Leonard Maduabum said when Zorya took on Man united in the UEFA Europa league

Dennis has been said to be an ambitious player and confirmed this himself when he told reporters in Belgium he not only wants to be the top scorer in Belgium but the best player as well

At the end of the season? Who knows? Its not beyond him

--SoccerAssembly

Icon79:
I heard that Couthino to Barca has been a done deal for a while, and he could be unveiled by Wednesday. And they were mentioning about 120m Pounds Sterling. Which to me is freaking crazy, if true!

I mean, if they spend anything more that 50m Pounds on Coutinho, then Barca Board need their heads examined! First of all, Coutinho is injury prone. And he isn't even Barca-type player either. He would be a burst at Barca, mark my words. To me, Coutinho is a silly buy for Barca. They've already got two players much better at what he does. In addition, all the players being linked with Barca seem to be forwards and attacking midfielders. I mean, are they only going to play with forwards? If anything the positions Barca desperately needs to shore up are in the defence and the Defensive Midfield departmets!

Like I had stated before, my concern is that the Barca organization would, as usual, waste the Neymar's windfall on the players they don't really need. Barca would remain a force if they can spend the $260m Neymar's windfall on players like Eden Hazard, Marco Verratti, and Sandro. But unfortunately, their recruiters sucks, so expect them to strike out as usual.


O pari

maidaboi:
last i check there was a barcelona thread
o pari take your time ooh
lol

do4luv14:
Ok guys and made men in the house,

since the season had jst started, and most teams will need theirs men to start on a strong footing to get them going,


how sure are we to get our guys for the Cameroun games



cc: TBABA, JOEBIE, DGUDJOE, ICONS4, OPARI MASTER,

SAFARIGAL, DSUPANERD, 9JADTABOI, and others

safarigirl:
it's like a week of international break, they'll only miss one game in the EPL and FIFA recognizes these qualifiers, so, nothing the clubs can do

Icon79:
Oh really? Abeg, can you share the link? A die hard Barca fan here


O pari

do4luv14:
Ok guys and made men in the house,

since the season had jst started, and most teams will need theirs men to start on a strong footing to get them going,


how sure are we to get our guys for the Cameroun games



cc: TBABA, JOEBIE, DGUDJOE, ICONS4, OPARI MASTER,

SAFARIGAL, DSUPANERD, 9JADTABOI, and others

Icon4s:


First off, my moniker is icon4s and not icons4

I thought The two matches still fall within the FIFA window.