@ All non-guru

Wanaj0 and Fatherof2 don talk again make una read inb\w the lines well well SOMETHING DEY,

@ Fatherof2
Pls my request pls, i have a list of all yr end, i need list of expected result date pls,

@ Oga Wanaj0
Welcome, what a relief to read you post. pls post "something" weekly for my sake,

"
I just ran into this story today and I think of sharing it with you all especially peeps that are crazy about bank shares, I guess someone on this thread has asked this question before? How do the banks come by these profits when other sectors are not doing well?

Guys make una shine una eyes o"

sometimes I wonder what the likes of crazy T are afraid of. If NSE wants to crash let it crash. People who want to invest will invest the very next day it opens for business. One day we cry "invest in Nigeria, invest in Nigeria." Another day another cry: " wolf, wolf!"
People are investing in Nigeria for the first time from all over the world, even people who do not even remember the name of the bank they had account in before departing Nigeria. Is this the right time to drive away investors with culled articles from dubious sources that make the banking sector look like smart criminals in an unregulated sector? What do think will happen to NSE and the economy if people stop investing. What will happen to the banks if all twenty five of them cannot pull resources together to finance the building of a bridge? You will still be proud to be Nigerian , I'm sure, I will be ashamed at such morbid poverty in the midst of plenty.

"deleted"

harrisoft:

@ All non-guru

Wanaj0 and Fatherof2 don talk again make una read inb\w the lines well well SOMETHING DEY,

@ Fatherof2
Please my request please, i have a list of all yr end, i need list of expected result date please,

@ Oga Wanaj0
Welcome, what a relief to read you post. please post "something" weekly for my sake,

Thank you my brother.

Abeg remind me wetin moi and Fatherof2 talk?

harrisoft:

Bros RoughCut, please are you sugesting that we buy springbank at currrent price.

No way! Springbank is a tainted bank i wont touch it with a ten-foot barge pole

They have  a subsidiary called Spring Mortgage which is set to list on the NSE so if you have a broker as soon as its listed make sure you get some!

Gidij:

"
I just ran into this story today and I think of sharing it with you all especially peeps that are crazy about bank shares, I guess someone on this thread has asked this question before? How do the banks come by these profits when other sectors are not doing well?

Guys make una shine una eyes o"

sometimes I wonder what the likes of crazy T are afraid of. If NSE wants to crash let it crash. People who want to invest will invest the very next day it opens for business. One day we cry "invest in Nigeria, invest in Nigeria." Another day another cry: " wolf, wolf!"
People are investing in Nigeria for the first time from all over the world, even people who do not even remember the name of the bank they had account in before departing Nigeria. Is this the right time to drive away investors with culled articles from dubious sources that make the banking sector look like smart criminals in an unregulated sector? What do think will happen to NSE and the economy if people stop investing. What will happen to the banks if all twenty five of them cannot pull resources together to finance the building of a bridge? You will still be proud to be Nigerian , I'm sure, I will be ashamed at such morbid poverty in the midst of plenty.

Which other sectors are not doing well The sectors that are not doing well are those depending on infrastructure to survive. That is not the fault of the banks but that of government.

You only need to look at the Telecoms, real estate and hospitality sectors to see that the banks are not alone. DSR already paid out N12Bn as interim dividend in 2007. How many banks can compete with that? How many companies are also as capitalised as the banks? People need to put things in perspective.

harrisoft:

Bros RoughCut, please are you sugesting that we buy springbank at currrent price.

Hi Harrisoft. Roughcut never talked about Springbank but Spring Mortgage.Springbank has been on suspension for ages.Please try and use this forum to acquire some knowlegde.These guys are not oracles.They are only experienced,informed and educated about the stock exchange more than u.For me i can't claim to know much  but i am trying my best to learn from them as much as i can cos only change doesnt change.Nairaland might not be tomorow.The easimoni's,wanajo's,FO2,Roughcut,Barge who seem nice and selfless today might become dumpers tommorow.This is the internet,man.its faceless.

Watch what they say and do your own little homework.it might save you and your family some heartache.

Am just a kid.

pumping777:

You answered the question yourself. These are different industries. Every industry has it's own time of growth and this can be repeated. Banking will not grow at these rate forever. Things will cool.

Let us now look at it critically. Do you think the banks have had the highest rate of growth in Nigeria in the last couple of years It's all about the service industries. They are growing at an astronomical rate. I can name at least 5 non-banking companies that have outgrown the banks in terms of YOY PAT so what is this fuss about?? What does one expect after condensing all the banks in Nigeria to 25

Some banks are still struggling you know. It is not so easy to cook the books on top of nothing. UBA is paying dividents of N1.20 for every stock and Oceanic is paying N1.02. No be yam now.

I know you want to convince me to sell my UBA to you but I no go gree

Make you quick buy own before all these investors from Europe and Yankee go buy everything finish and list UBAN on NYSE

The market is not deep enough for the number securities quoted on the NSE and that is why you have inefficiencies that have allowed a lot of  nairalanders including moi_{and the silent readers God knows all of you!} to profit from these wild gyrations

A classic case in point refer to this link for some analysis on CUTIX i posted  on this thread sometime last year
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=31554.msg1779178#msg1779178

@ All,

Shoreline acquires 40 per cent stake in Premier Paints


SHORELINE Energy International (SEI) has acquired a 40 per cent stake in Premier Paints Plc, a manufacturing company quoted on the Nigerian Stock Exchange under its business consolidation plan.

The acquisition, according to Shoreline , would provide synergy for its portfolio companies in the construction sector in the short term, while medium term synergies would be delivered through investment in other infrastructure sub-sector.

The acquisition is expected to be completed by the end of the first year of ownership.

"The Premier Paints transaction marks another important milestone in our group's drive to expand and enhance our strategy of Infrastructure and Energy leadership in Sub-Saharan Africa. Premier Paints brings immediate benefit to our portfolio companies such as Costain West Africa and our growing furniture and joinery businesses. It also positions us well as we expand our capability in servicing key infrastructure sub sectors, it's a fantastic addition to our portfolio," said Kola Karim, executive chairman of Shoreline Energy International.

He added: "The acquisition of a strategic stake in Premier Paints is our latest example of how Shoreline Energy International is delivering on a transformational growth strategy. Premier Paints is a strategically aligned acquisition that brings new expertise, exciting growth opportunities and accelerates growth in key portfolio companies."

Speaking with journalists after the yearly general meeting of the firm, Chairman of Premier Paints, Chief Ogooluwa Bankole, expressed delight that his company "would now have access to the finance, international management know how and investment it needs to grow"

"For Premier Paints, the transaction fits with its objectives of securing an investor with a strong balance sheet and capable world - class management committed to further develop the Paints business in Sub- Saharan Africa.

"Although Premier Paints has been successful in growing its business, to achieve the next stage of its development, its board believes that it would be necessary to increase the geographical scale of its operations and to invest in capability to service emerging growth markets across Sub-Saharan Africa. Partnership with Shoreline Energy International will immediately achieve these strategic objectives for Premier Paints."


From the psychology of our NSE, Your guess is as good as mine what will happen to the stock even without results.

Lets wait and see.

Yeah, thats the kind of news the market, is definitely gonna react to. Lets wait and see!

" "

From a friend:

Because of you, I read and analyzed the CHAMS prospectus. It's very good for me as it served to remind me of my MBA stuff again. These people contributing (from your last mail) are not analysts at all. They are more of speculators than investors. However, think of it, are we not all speculators in Naija market

Anyway, if CHAMS is doing a private placement in the UK or US, nobody would have bought it. A critical look at the fundamentals of the company revealed that it has never performed well in the past or that its books are not good. When you analyse a comapny, try to concentrate more on the cash flow statement. A company's cash flow from operations reveals a lot. However, many people concentrate on balance sheet and profit & loss account, neglecting the cash flow statement. Looking at CHAMS cash flow statement showed that they only made money from operations during the half yr '07. Why should that be?? Why should they make positive money from operation the previous half year before asking people for money That I do not belief to be true?. Even the cash made from half yr. operations far exceeds what they have ever been made. Look at page 44: Look at cash flow from operations and net cash provided by operating activities 2002 to 2007. Obviously something is not right.

Look at the liabilities vis-a-vis the net assets from 02 to 06, 02 - 06 debt to total asset ratios had been as high as 52% while this was reduced to 32% in '07 (the year preeding private placement). Current asset had been much less than current liabilities all the previous years until '07 when current assets far exceeds current laibilities. I can only see an attempt to make the book look good everywhere I analyzed.

Having said all these, I will still buy CHAMS, because I do not know what makes the market move? Obviously, it's not fundamentals.

wanaj0:

Thank you my brother.
Abeg remind me wetin moi and Fatherof2 talk?

@ Oga Wanaj0

Fatherof2(RULE 5: list of Top losers) FBN has pop up lose thur/fri/mon/ already fatherof2(RULE 2: thur/fri downtread Buy) then OGA WANAJO come mention FBN again. I CAN GIVE A FRIDAY FBN BUY ORDER IN ADVACE (good for short and long).

@ easimoni
thank you 4 the 9days infor, you know say i no be engr. like una, i go dey try the two 9/14

crazyT:

Secrets behind banks’ huge profits


I just ran into this story today and I think of sharing it with you all especially peeps that are crazy about bank shares, I guess someone on this thread has asked this question before? How do the banks come by these profits when other sectors are not doing well?

Guys make una shine una eyes o 


Suddenly, we are back to the era of stupendous figures. If key performance indicators are not doubling or tripling, it is quadrupling. And just as one bank is rolling out astounding figures for one period, another is announcing some out-of-the-world results for the same or other periods. And these are usually heralded by a blitz of advertisements to properly situate and highlight the waltz up the performance chain.

The big question: How do the banks come by these profits when other sectors are not doing well? The surprising thing is that you hardly see much activity in some of these banks reeling out these mind-boggling figures. Where then lies their secret?
here under is the link: http://odili.net/news/source/2008/jan/6/428.html

 Without doubt the banking industry has grown rapidly since consolidation in 2004 and they have been ingenious in turning out profits for all stakeholders as the economy continues to grow and their is still a massive section of the population yet to be exploited.There is a lot of room for growth in the industry.
 
However , the article raised some valid questions which have been discussed on this thread at some time. To a large extent there exist INCOME SMOOTHING . This is one of the drawbacks of Accrual accounting that gives management the discretion of what classification an item should fall under , and the timing of expenditure.

Classification smoothing  occurs when a company reports an item in a category in order to smooth earnings, whlie

Intertemporal Smoothing occurs when a firm alters the timing of expenditures  or chooses an accounting method in order to smooth earnings.

These 2 methods of earnings management is very present in the NSE .This practise happens worldwide alright but,if you mix this with the Nigerian factor and the cut-throat competition plus lack of strict enforcement by the relevant authorities ,we  have some potentially dangerous cocktail on our hands. Examples abound this year. Wema bank had the result locked until it was in the interest of the bank to release it. The past days shows the result can be released when it interest the banks ,on time.
I believe very strongly in the prospects of the industry and i consider this as another RISK i have to take to invest, but it is a very serious issue because the EARNINGS MUST HAVE REPRESENTATIONAL FAITHFULNESS. I can only hope we get there.

yodiyokun:

Yes oo you got it right.

Is he normally like this-I tried his phone today - it was switched off - his two phones o.

Last week I called twice on this UBA issue, nothing.  I know  my money is small, but haba its still my money ke? The thing dey vex me wahalahi!.

Especially because I am so busy that I don't have every day to be chasing after a purchase or sale, coupled with 6 hours time difference?

The annoying thing is that no response to my emails is the height of it



Rant over.

His phone was unavailable for some time . If you still need details, will mail it to you. He is a good guy and does a good job .Again you can only drive as much as your engine will move u.

For the doubting thomases who are skeptical about the good results being churned out by the banks, well stop buying bank stocks.

Water will always find its level. Untill such a time the investors themselves have decreased returns from banks in comparison to other sectors, we shall continue to patronize bank stocks.

However the warnings are noted, but never invest any amount you cannot afford to lose. This is the golden rule in risk management.

A thought just occure to me, NB at its current price is cheap, and its year end is past, I know they cannot afford a bonus despite the high PAT expected, but the dividend will be above N2.

A good buy if you ask me.

invisible!:

For the doubting thomases who are skeptical about the good results being churned out by the banks, well stop buying bank stocks.

Water will always find its level. Untill such a time the investors themselves have decreased returns from banks in comparison to other sectors, we shall continue to patronize bank stocks.

However the warnings are noted, but never invest any amount you cannot afford to lose. This is the golden rule in risk management.

Firstly , this is a forum where divergent opinions are accomodated "stop buying bank stocks " sounds like you are taking it personal. Part of my job is to manage risk and  decide if i am comfortable with any risk factor.

"we shall continue to patronize bank stocks " is patronizing . I will remind you part of maturity is accepting that others have a different view. We areneither debating nor driving opinion here.

Finally , I CANT AFFORD TO LOSE ONE KOBO .Though i take big risks ,they are calculated and i if lose , i don't fret .  It can't be a taboo to see whats wrong even if you are profiting from it.

@Gidij

sometimes I wonder what the likes of crazy T are afraid of. If NSE wants to crash let it crash. People who want to invest will invest the very next day it opens for business. One day we cry "invest in Nigeria, invest in Nigeria." Another day another cry: " wolf, wolf!"
People are investing in Nigeria for the first time from all over the world, even people who do not even remember the name of the bank they had account in before departing Nigeria. Is this the right time to drive away investors with culled articles from dubious sources that make the banking sector look like smart criminals in an unregulated sector? What do think will happen to NSE and the economy if people stop investing. What will happen to the banks if all twenty five of them cannot pull resources together to finance the building of a bridge? You will still be proud to be Nigerian , I'm sure, I will be ashamed at such morbid poverty in the midst of plenty.

I am an investor in the NSE (for the long term) and I believe you are too. I doubt it if your decision to invest was informed by some patriotic fervour. We are all in it to make money so when genuine fears arise particularly with regard to some of these financial statements being dished out to the public by these banks and non banks we ventilate these fears and where necessary pull the ears of the regulators to do things properly. In the end the NSE and Nigerians will be better for it.

We are actually a very poor country of 140 million mostly illiterate people with some barrels of oil. Much of the proceeds of sale we know end up in europe, American and lately Brazilian banks. Our salvation is learning to do things properly and evading corruption. Unfortunately we have been led 2 steps backward.

yodiyokun:

Yes oo you got it right.

Is he normally like this-I tried his phone today - it was switched off - his two phones o.

Last week I called twice on this UBA issue, nothing. I know my money is small, but haba its still my money ke? The thing dey vex me wahalahi!.

Especially because I am so busy that I don't have every day to be chasing after a purchase or sale, coupled with 6 hours time difference?

The annoying thing is that no response to my emails is the height of it



Rant over.

I am with LC as well and currently getting the same treatment from my account manager.

@All,   Read this:
     




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday, January 6, 2008  Printer Friendly Version

Secrets behind banks’ huge profits

By Chijama Ogbu


For Nigeria’s banking sector, it is beginning to feel like the good days are here. The capital market has become an easy recourse where they rush to raise money cheaply. Their performance indicators are pushing upwards as never before and their share prices have jumped to the ceiling. In many instances have burst through to the sky.

But just as the general outlook appears good, the bankers are beginning to tread dangerous paths again. Some of the practices that led to the banking distress in the early 1990s are inching back into the system.

Suddenly, we are back to the era of stupendous figures. If key performance indicators are not doubling or tripling, it is quadrupling. And just as one bank is rolling out astounding figures for one period, another is announcing some out-of-the-world results for the same or other periods. And these are usually heralded by a blitz of advertisements to properly situate and highlight the waltz up the performance chain.

These days, growth indexes are hardly supported by performance history or financial fundamentals. Figures just keep leaping to your face, as each bank tries to portray itself as a bank of prodigious abilities.

Most folks, who were of age in the late 1980s through the 1990s, when Nigeria experienced an unprecedented

rise in bogey banking, may not be exactly surprised. It was not difficult then to dress bad books to appear wonderful, most times beating even the eagle-eyed regulators. The same thing by varying degrees still happens now.

The big question: How do the banks come by these profits when other sectors are not doing well? The surprising thing is that you hardly see much activity in some of these banks reeling out these mind-boggling figures. Where then lies their secret?

I recently spoke with a banker, who was until recently a managing director of one of the new generation banks in the country. What he told me are the odd things banks do to make huge profits were quite revealing.

He told me that some of the profits being declared by the banks were mere paper profits, meant to deceive their shareholders. According to him, one of the ways they jack up their profit profile is to suspend major capital expenditure till they are captured in their financial report, only for it to be spent immediately after. That way it reflects on the account as part of the banks’ worth, when in actual sense the money is no longer there.

The former bank managing director said that he often wondered how financially gullible many Nigerians were. He said that it was difficult to understand how banks, which claimed to have made huge profits, could not declare dividends to the shareholders. He advised investors to always measure the liquidity of a bank by what it was able to pay out to the shareholders.

The truth, he said, was that many of them were not as liquid as they claimed. According to him, some of them made the N25bn minimum capital by simply giving loans to some directors and prized customers, who in turn bought their shares with the funds.

The bank chief said this exposed many of them dangerously, forcing them to rush back to the capital market shortly after to fill the holes created in their finances. He said that even some banks perceived by the people as very strong were affected.

But he admits that some of them actually rake in real cash from money laundering. According to him, some bank managers and the public office holders still collude to disguise slush funds as clean through an intricate web of transactions.

Many banks, he adds, are surviving largely on government-related businesses. He says such banks usually serve as a conduit for corrupt public officials to siphon illicit money, thereby making huge money for the bank and for top managers in the process.

There are many projects in the country today suspected to be owned by politicians through their proxies, who were helped by the banks in hiding the identities of the real owners. Take as an example the cases of the alleged corrupt governors. All of them were said to have siphoned money which they hid in or through the banks.

According to the bank chief, they also make some good money from different facilities, which they obtain from

multilateral development finance institutions and international import finance banks, which they usually borrow at London Inter Bank Official Rate (about three per cent) plus one per cent. This, they on-lend to their customers at above 12 per cent. The huge difference of about eight per cent they earn as profit and these are usually foreign currency-denominated transactions.

However, the most brazen of them, he further said, could go further. These ones will simply locate some accounts to which they clandestinely post charges. Usually, they study the pattern of transactions on such accounts to determine which one to exploit. This is why sometimes, for the few Nigerians that care to monitor transactions on their accounts carefully, you just see charges with nondescript headings posted to your account. Imagine what N5,000 posted in N50,000 accounts in one month can amount to in a year.

Besides, they also juggle figures and statistics to support the image they prefer to project. Sometimes you see three to five banks reeling out figures to justify their claims to one position or the other. A bank might emphasize the balance sheet size, another the assets size, another the deposit base, and yet another the profit size – to justify one thing: their being the largest bank in the country or being the most efficient or other claims that suit their whims.

In their corporate goal and strategy, more than 10 of the 25 banks say they want to be among the top five

banks by 2010. It is not bad to have high aspirations, but there is no way 10 banks will all be within the top five, unless some of them decide to coalesce in the form of mergers and or acquisitions.

The Managing Director of the Nigerian Deposit Insurance Corporation, Mr. Ganiyu Ogunleye, only about a fortnight ago, made it clear that some of the figures being bandied about by the banks were at variance with data in its possession. Meaning: the figures are spurious.

Although banking consolidation has boosted banks’ ability to perform, it is important that they focus more on core banking activities for their profit. Any bank that builds its future on tricks and fraudulent activities may discover one day that the game will be up. Banking is a serious economic activity, which the sector regulators must guard strictly.


FROM PUNCH NEWSPAPER.

whether the banks are cooking,frying or panel beating their books,
i will still be buying them big time.
the words of an EX BANKS DIRECTOR cant make me change my outlook on bank stocks.
the EX from all understandings was part of the booking,untill recently when he became as EX.
then he started crying wolf,how on earth can you trust such person or his words.

anyway its a risky world,even the money in your bedroom or pocket can dissapper the next moment.
if care is not taking,you can dissapper with the money aswell.so the risk is all outhere no matter what.

for me and the banks na for better and for worst
already waiting for PHB to come out TS.
my brand new range rover no go pass this year.

if care is not taking,you can dissapper with the money aswell

True talk

my brand new range rover no go pass this year

pls can someone pls educate me more why i shld buy uba. just sold my a.p yesterday i need to quickly reinvest the money i beg ,your advice is all welcome

hbrednic:


my brand new range rover no go pass this year.

i can make do with an X5 too,

on a serious note, but those crying wolf and those been optimistic add balance to the views on this forum, which is y i love it so much. But as for me and my house, we shall remain committed to banking stocks till we need to run for cover.
Oceanic made me 120% last year, cos i had bought late 2006. probability of making another 100% oncei can turn this spreadsheet money into real cash and people are crying wolf. abeg let them go and put money in nigerian wire and cable instead, daaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

My broker cannot get Premier Paints to buy.

Who wants to sell to me?

teto:

please can someone please educate me more why i shld buy uba. just sold my a.p yesterday i need to quickly reinvest the money i beg ,your advice is all welcome

if you read the last 5 pages and the calucations of PE and EPS done based on the results released yesterday and still don't know why you should buy UBA, then me i tire oh,

@teto
can you still catch uba train today?
it have been long the gurus have been shouting,"reserve your seat"
might be too late for now.

fundamentaly strong coy, with low price.thats why you have to jump in.

Why worry gentlemen about the future prospects of the banks etc?  From the comments of most people on this forum, it is not a wild guess to say that we have more short term speculators than investors.  Even if the banks will DIE in the coming months most of you will not be affected afterall.  You must have cycled out before it happens. So why worry.  There is no perfect market, and most people will agree that they have positively exploited the imperfection of the market to their own stupendous benefits and they are still eager.  

What must be admitted though is that our market, the Nigerian market, is deep, deeper than most will even imagine.  Whether or not the depth is dug deeper by "investors" who want to exploit the opportunity to launder fund is not the matter, the issue is that before investing you are face to face with a checklist of the stock fundamentals and are convinced by your "terms" of decision.  Like Wanajo said, it's not only the banking sector that is "booming" as it were, other sectors are following suit except for those held down by the sickly infrastructure on ground.  Even at that, many, indeed many are looking for plausible alternatives and will soon get there.

Might we therefore be too overly concerned about the market growth or the fact that we are making it in the market?  Even if the banks get to a level where they cannot push further, remember, there are even more viable sectors like the telecoms, the mainstream Oil and Gas sector, which are yet to be listed on the NSE.  And if care is not taken, with our made in Nigeria kind of democracy some state government might want to be listed on the NSE.  Might you then be concerned about the personality of the Governor or the political party to which he belongs!

This was how I sat here last year and had the opportunity of buying into C & I Leasing at less than N3 and was unsure, only to be chasing after it now at more than N9 and yet not able to get the volume on my mind.

2008 has started the good party that this year holds and what we have seen in just two weeks into it will convince you that awareness about the stock market is growing every day.  As I was writing this article, I had to be interrupted by a colleague who wants to know more about the stock market.  Maybe because of my new car he saw and had wondered if I was an oil bunkerer to be able to rise to that level.

My plan this year is to be able to make another trip, this time, not to any African or middle eastern country but to the far West with my UBA and FBN dividend.  I will even be planning to move to a higher level as some bug themselves down with the debate about the mind-buggling figures issuing from the banks.  Which of them has declared dividend and have not been able to pay?  Maybe the dividend you received was not real either!

Do you want to question the sanity of those buying into UNTL even as its premises have been overgrown by weed?  All these make the NSE most interesting - no one for sure can predict the direction of the market, you can do only for a while and you are proved WRONG.

loma:

My broker cannot get Premier Paints to buy.

Who wants to sell to me?

where you go see premier paint? very difficult to get.
you can buy into costain to take advantage of the synergy.

my brokers still haven't bought UBA since last Thursday
hope they can get today. at times these brokers are bad news sef

Guys have been wondering why I pick the name Mr. Risky.  I did for some very simple reason.  I saw that in the past, I have lost much for not daring to take risk, but suddenly I was awaken to the fact that it is even RISKY to be ALIVE.  And indeed nothing is even riskier than that.  So came the name Mr. Risky.   I am happier now that some are saying banking stocks are risky, that shows me the direction this year, that that is where I will most likely make it.

With with we all read about Dangote Flour  I had thought it will be under-subscribed, but today, the news is saying quite the opposite.  Same with Access Bank.  You will be surprised that First Inland Bank will be over-subscribed.  Who ever thought Unity bank will inch higher than N5?  Or Nahco rising beyond N22 after the PO? Rather, the much celebrated NASCON has produced many debtors!  It is this inconsistency and unpredictability that I personally LOVE about the NSE. By this time last year I would invoke spell on any one who ever dare recommend AG Leventis.  But today, the profit can take care of my children's school fees, hahahahaha