TomHagen:
What then is the purpose of hell?

It is a place of judgement prepared for the devil and his angels; he has neither options nor redemption. But when man that has both chooses to follow the devil, it becomes injustice to deny him the destination of the path he chose.

Scholar8200:
It is a place of judgement prepared for the devil and his angels; he has neither options nor redemption. But when man that has both chooses to follow the devil, it becomes injustice to deny him the destination of the path he chose.

Will man be a free moral agent in Heaven?

Scholar8200:
That whichis evil today was once good till it was separated from God. So, evil was not created as such.

So, genocide and the murder of women and children was once good until separated from your god?

Enlightening.....

blessedvisky:


Hi seun. What actually happened here was a misuse of power by Peter. If you recall, Peter was in charge of the church after Christ ascended Matt 16 :18
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

So we know Peter had power, and he misused it. If he didn't want either of them to die, they won't have. The church and apostles grew in knowledge throughout the book of Acts. A classical proof of this fact is Acts 8.
Simon wanted to buy the power of the Holy Spirit from Peter. Peter rebuked him sharply but he didn't die. Why? Because Peter was now wiser than making someone die.
And BTW, you don't have to lie to get a point across. The Bible doesn't record ananais and sapphira having children. I know it must be really hard for you, but don't say what the Bible didn't say.

Cc winner01

Where did the bible record that Peter misused any power?

TomHagen:
Will man be a free moral agent in Heaven?

Eternity in Heaven or Hell will be the consequence of a choice which will remain so forever.

Even today, our free moral agency allows us to choose an option but this does not reach to the realm of choosing the consequence of that option!

Scholar8200:
Eternity in Heaven or Hell will be the consequence of a choice which will remain so forever.

Even today, our free moral agency allows us to choose an option but this does not reach to the realm of choosing the consequence of that option!

You misunderstand me. Will there be freewill in Heaven?

TomHagen:
You misunderstand me. Will there be freewill in Heaven?

No. I have my reasons. Now, like Adam, we are free moral agents. Our choice on who we follow here on Earth gets us to a destination that is a consequence of our choice and which we cannot change.

Just like a woman may choose one out of many suitors but once that choice is made, she has to remain with him with no option of getting another suitor (same for the man, I speak based on the Bible) while the first is still alive. Meaning while the spouse is alive, he/she has no free moral agency to choose another person.

I believe this illustrates that we loose our free moral agency once we get past choice into consequence. Heaven and Hell are consequences of a choice!

Scholar8200:
No. I have my reasons. Now, like Adam, we are free moral agents. Our choice on who we follow here on Earth gets us to a destination that is a consequence of our choice and which we cannot change.

Just like a woman may choose one out of many suitors but once that choice is made, she has to remain with him with no option of getting another suitor (same for the man, I speak based on the Bible) while the first is still alive. Meaning while the spouse is alive, he/she has no free moral agency to choose another person.

I believe this illustrates that we loose our free moral agency once we get past choice into consequence. Heaven and Hell are consequences of a choice!

In other words, there is no freewill there, the ability to make choices is taken away. Right?

TomHagen:
In other words, there is no freewill there, the ability to make choices is taken away. Right?

Not taken away.
Even here on Earth we can only choose an option, we cannot choose the consequences of the options thus chosen. Hence being in Heaven or hell is a consequence of a choice which we cannot change or influence though we be free moral agents.

In another way, you may choose what to sow but you cannot choose what you reap.

Seun:

Why not answer the questions yourself, since you think they are relevant to our discussion? Answer them and make your point(s), if you can.

there is no point to make there Mr. seun there're some mistery that're are beyond human comprehension. No matter how you try to analyse them, you just wouldn't get to the bottom. Even in present days, there still remain some happening and occurrences that will ever remain a mistery. So the death of Ananias and Sepphiras would have remain such even if autopsy were to be carried out on them.

Scholar8200:
Not taken away.
Even here on Earth we can only choose an option, we cannot choose the consequences of the options thus chosen. Hence being in Heaven or hell is a consequence of a choice which we cannot change or influence though we be free moral agents.

In another way, you may choose what to sow but you cannot choose what you reap.

No freewill then.

For the record: i don't support that act by St. Peter, because i know he had the powers to raise those couple back to life but he chose not to and i also don't know the Spiritual edification of that part in the Bible or why God inspired it to be written but one thing is for sure, God said thou shall not ''Lie''

And Lastly, It was said St.Peter was an angered man, am believing this was one of the reason St. Paul didn't go down well with him.

jnrbayano:


Where did the bible record that Peter misused any power?

Acts 5. Peter caused the death of the couple. However, as I explained earlier, it was due to his limited knowledge at that time. He had the Holy Ghost Power, the power with which he healed the lame man @ the beautiful gate in Acts 3. He misused this same power in Acts 5 by pronouncing death upon the couple and it happened. However, when we get to Acts 8, we see he has "calmed down" a bit. He rebuked Simon sharply but didn't pronounce death upon him. Why?? A verse from one of the books written by Peter himself let's us know why
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Peter obviously must have learnt this between Acts 5 and Acts 8, hence we don't see any more " fall down and die" action from Peter again throughout Acts.

I hope you now understand??

Cc seun winner01

Mr. Seun you got it all wrong. Annaias and Sapphira conspired against the Holy Ghost by trying to hide a certain part. They presented the half as a whole which led to their death. It wasn't barbaric at all. He could have told Peter we can only afford to pay half but he lied. Mr Seun you can't blasphemy the Holy Spirit. Anyway continue the good job of fulfilling the prophecy. But I pray that God will visit you soon.

TomHagen:
No freewill then.

Sure there will be. However, it will be a realm where free will has no control - Consequence/outcome (just like it is even on Earth in the examples cited so far. There are choices we make even now whose outcomes our free will cannot influence).

blessedvisky:


Acts 5. Peter caused the death of the couple. However, as I explained earlier, it was due to his limited knowledge at that time. He had the Holy Ghost Power, the power with which he healed the lame man @ the beautiful gate in Acts 3. He misused this same power in Acts 5 by pronouncing death upon the couple and it happened. However, when we get to Acts 8, we see he has "calmed down" a bit. He rebuked Simon sharply but didn't pronounce death upon him. Why?? A verse from one of the books written by Peter himself let's us know why
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Peter obviously must have learnt this between Acts 5 and Acts 8, hence we don't see any more " fall down and die" action from Peter again throughout Acts.

I hope you now understand??

Cc seun winner01

In what chapter and verse did Peter pronounce/cause death on/to Ananias?

Charlesdock:
Mr. Seun you got it all wrong. Annaias and Sapphira conspired against the Holy Ghost by trying to hide a certain part. They presented the half as a whole which led to their death. It wasn't barbaric at all. He could have told Peter we can only afford to pay half but he lied. Mr Seun you can't blasphemy the Holy Spirit. Anyway continue the good job of fulfilling the prophecy. But I pray that God will visit you soon.

**Conspired against the Holyghost**, seriously do u know the fruits of the holyspirit.