Ok let me start with the foundations that led to opening this up on nairaland.

Last week i was invited for a discussion by Menesheh held by a group "Thinkers Pub".

It held last thursday at Golden toast fast food Enugu, i went to the discussion and as you may have guessed the discussion was based on the topic.

Is it rational to believe in afterlife?

It was a very hot discussion filled with brilliant minds and tactful fun filled intellectuals, it was also like a battle of friendly debate between the sides and intellectually stimulating.

After the debate i found out after getting acquainted with the host and leader of the group that that he was once a well known nairalander on this board.

MrAnony1

we had personal arguments on our own i and Anony alongside menesheh after the group discussion and it was fun all the way.

---

Now the healthy fun filled warm and intellectually rich atmosphere of the live debate led me to opening this up here.

Is it rational to believe in afterlife?

If yes state your reasons

If no also state your reasons

We are also allowed on this discussion to attack each other's points but never with insults or attacking each other's personality.

Let's keep it a friendly and fun debate.

Cc. Lordniklaus, dorox, misogynist, Uyilredia, PastorAIO, Loj, donnffd, cloudgoddess, joywendy, jackbizzle, davien, pr0ton, Ranchhoddas, frank317, SirWere, 4kings, Joseph1013, Reyginus, HCpaul, seun, lalasticlala.

everyone is welcome to the discussion... the floor is open.

am here!first to comment!..make I quickly grab chair ..where my popcorn n orijin?its gonna be interesting

Inasmuch as there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of an afterlife, it's certainly irrational to believe in it. Near death experiences are just hallucinations. The belief in an afterlife is driven by our reluctance to accept our mortality. Instead of worrying about what happens after death, focus on prolonging your life as much as possible and doing the things you love most. A bird in your hand is worth plenty in the bush.

Rational? No. It's not. Except we don't define rationality by logic but by emotions. It's an emotional thing and that's why for me.

Well I believe in ghosts...

Seun:
Inasmuch as there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of an afterlife, it's certainly irrational to believe in it. Near death experiences are just hallucinations. The belief in an afterlife is driven by our reluctance to accept our mortality. Instead of worrying about what happens after death, focus on prolonging your life as much as possible and doing the things you love most. A bird in your hand is worth plenty in the bush.

So your argument is based on : the dread experienced by a human mind when faced with the cold eventuality and inevitability of death and a severe want and need for a soft landing psychological pillow, an escape route to derive comfort in this cold fate - this led to the him irrationally concieving the thought of living again [in a life he wouldn't have to face same dread again (immortality)]

I don't uphold conviction in life after death.

Frenchkisss:
I don't uphold conviction in life after death.

why?

sacrificing the earth for paradise is giving up the substance for the shadow...I don't think it is rational to believe there is afterlife... nobody has ever been there..we don't know the location...no evidence whatsoever...dreams and near death experience??. who takes that serious?? it is clear that the only evidence of afterlife are hearsay.. n some are gotten from the text written in some religious book...and we can't really rely on those claims.....it is not rational to believe in afterlife because there is no prove to back it up...many who believe it doesn't even have any clue about it...they just believe it

Seun:
Inasmuch as there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of an afterlife, it's certainly irrational to believe such. Near death experiences are just hallucinations...

First I'd point out that you are wrong.

See the case of Pam Reynolds:

This near death research confirms that the mind can think independently from the body. In 1991, the 35 year-old Pam Reynolds underwent a brain operation. Her blood was routed from her brain and she was placed in a state of artificial coma. Her head was attached with wires to measure brain waves. It was ascertained that no brain waves could travel during this half an hour. The thought processes were blocked, and examined as no hormone release could occur. Hallucinations were not possible in this state.

Pam Reynolds claimed to have had an out-of-body experience, she even observed and reported some details of her operation correctly. According to her, she met her deceased grandmother and other people who had "positive energy", and they strengthened her so that she could go through her operation successfully.

The special aspect of Pam Reynolds' case lies with the fact that modern measurement equipment shows that the consciousness of a person exists even when the stuff of the brain is shut off. This leads one to conclude that there must be an independent consciousness separate from the body. The body and soul are two different manifestations of energy. The case of Pam Reynolds was tested with many other patients. They confirmed the results.

Pam Reynolds' case proves that our existence is beyond the physical body that we attribute it to.

(@johnydon22 I was late but I booked space earlier)

It is rational to believe in an afterlife.

*Studies have shown that even Quantum Physics proves that our consciousness continues after our physical body dies. A lot of quantum physicists support this.

*There are even philosophical theories that entail that this universe is some sort of "virtual reality"...all for plausible reasons.

*Consciousness exists outside our body..so far that is fact

Whichever form that our consciousness continues to exist is obviously a different manifestation of energy (soul) from that of the body, since it is functioning beyond the brain that we attribute it to. And whatever realm/dimension is accommodating this our "manifestation of energy" to exist is clearly metaphysical because it is beyond physics as we know it; being able to work independent from the body.

And the thought of a different dimension/realm/universe existing within ours that works different from our laws of physics is not too far-fetched. We have theories of multiverses, theories of events from alternate universes affecting our own in one way or another, research/studies (fact) that prove our consciousness is beyond our physical body etc.

Before anyone turns my statements to another argument entirely, I am just addressing the question of the belief in an afterlife being rational or not.

As long as something is backed up with reasoning, is logically sound and not totally absurd, then it is rational. And my reason for pointing out my aforementioned points is that they were backed up with logic, facts, research and reasoning. Therefore the belief in an afterlife is rational

We live in a world where strange and unexplainable things have happened throughout the course of history. Many people have reported very specific ghost sightings, miracles and other paranormal activities. Now there are about 7 billion people in this world, lemme even be generous to the skeptics and say only about half of the world's population (about 3,500,000,000 people) have claimed to have witnessed something supernatural of some sort, it would be very absurd to believe that ALL 3,500,000,000 people were lying or hallucinating.

Seun:
Inasmuch as there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of an afterlife, it's certainly irrational to believe in it.

what do we consider the afterlife to be ? If it a physical place as your post imply. Using the scientific process, science cannot comment on it because we can't make measurement beyond our physical world. BUT we cannot say there is no afterlife because thousand of people cannot be hallucinating one thing.

Its clear the opposite of Living is NON living , isn't it ?

So its either a person is Living ( Alive ) or Non Living ( Dead, Not Alive ) . this rubbish the theory of afterlife

malvisguy212:
what do we consider the afterlife to be ? If it a physical place as your post imply. Using the scientific process, science cannot comment on it because we can't make measurement beyond our physical world. BUT we cannot say there is no afterlife because thousand of people cannot be hallucinating one thing.

Since there is no way to ascertain or measure such a thing as you have shown - then how exactly would you come out and assert that such a thing is.

If it is not measurable or proveable, then there is no way you can ever know of such a thing.

Afterlife is here on earth . In the real sense of it , after your birth you live on forever . Wherever anyone spend eternity is where the issue lies .

johnydon22:


So your argument is based on : the dread experienced by a human mind when faced with the cold eventuality and inevitability of death and a severe want and need for a soft landing psychological pillow, an escape route to derive comfort in this cold fate - this led to the him irrationally concieving the thought of living again [in a life he wouldn't have to face same dread again (immortality)]

Exactly what you can call "wishful thinking".
It is irrational to believe in things without evidence.
The predominant explanation for this, is "another realm". But how can u believe in a realm u've not gone to unless its just a formation of belief to suit your desire.

KingEbukasBlog:
Afterlife is here on earth . In the real sense of it , after your birth you live on forever . Wherever anyone spend eternity is where the issue lies .

In the real sense, do we exist before we are formed in the Womb ?

Seun:
Inasmuch as there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of an afterlife, it's certainly irrational to believe in it. Near death experiences are just hallucinations. The belief in an afterlife is driven by our reluctance to accept our mortality. Instead of worrying about what happens after death, focus on prolonging your life as much as possible and doing the things you love most. A bird in your hand is worth plenty in the bush.

No one sits down and worries what happens after death . Honestly , its only on this site that I see the most ridiculous things about Christian beliefs . 4kings , amokeme can bear me witness that in Church services we are being taught to strive for greatness , be ambitious and excel beyond expectations . No wonder Christians are the wealthiest and most accomplished in the world , the disparity is there for all to see .

4kings:

Exactly what you can call "wishful thinking".
It is irrational to believe in things without evidence.
The predominant explanation for this, is "another realm". But how can u believe in a realm u've not gone to unless its just a formation of belief to suit your desire.

One can deduct by studying every idea and concept afterlife [paradises] these are projections of man's greed and unsated lust for the things he regard good and wanting but yet very elusive in an existence that is sadly limited.

4kings:

Exactly what you can call "wishful thinking".
It is irrational to believe in things without evidence.
The predominant explanation for this, is "another realm". But how can u believe in a realm u've not gone to unless its just a formation of belief to suit your desire.

@ emboldened text The joke is totally on you .

You believe a non interventionist God exists . Where is your evidence

Oh dear ... this is laughable

At least my evidences are drawn from my personal experiences with God . And since I know of God's existence , there's the "afterlife" . So mine is not based on ratiocination .

Peacefullove:



In the real sense, do we exist before we are formed in the Womb ?

This is not the right thread to discuss this .

KingEbukasBlog:


No one sits down and worries what happens after death . Honestly , its only on this site that I see the most ridiculous things about Christian beliefs . 4kings , amokeme can bear me witness that in Church services we are being taught to strive for greatness , be ambitious and excel beyond expectations . No wonder Christians are the wealthiest and most accomplished in the world , the disparity is there for all to see .

Your church's slogan is HEAVEN AT LAST! but I hear you bro

Also, look at every tract, every Christian movie, listen to preachers that disturb us early in the morning

Overwhelming percentage of them focus on it

johnydon22:


One can deduct by studying every idea and concept afterlife [paradises] these are projections of man's greed and unsated lust for the things he regard good and wanting but yet very elusive in an existence that is sadly limited.

Precisely

KingEbukasBlog:


@ emboldened text The joke is totally on you .

You believe a non interventionist God exists . Where is your evidence

Oh dear ... this is laughable

At least my evidences are drawn from my personal experiences with God . And since I know of God's existence , there's the "afterlife" . So mine is not based on ratiocination .

I can remember telling you like 5 times that it was my opinion, I wasn't imposing it on you, was I?
*****
"Personal experiences with god", is the working of your subconscious-conscious mind.

hopefuLandlord:


Your church's slogan is HEAVEN AT LAST! but I hear you bro

I saw your discussions today and I doubt you'd understand me but I'll go ahead anyway

During church services , our messages are centered on good morals and the church exhorts its members to give their lives to Christ and live a good Christian life , a life of rectitude - these are the prerequisites of making Heaven . We don't sit down and worry about the afterlife like Seun portrayed it to be .

Comprende ?

My simple answer is No, its not rational to believe in such...

We are alive and we know we are alive because we are conscious, so as long as we are conscious, we are in some way alive. The main issue is that consciousness resides in the brain and it has not been proven that it can reside anywhere else. So as painful as it can be, it is expected that consciousness would cease when the brain dies. There has been no reason whatsoever to think that it can somehow survive the death of the brain. So it would be irrational to go on believing in something that has no basis...

Natural selection has permitted our greed and selfishness to remain with us.

Combine these afore traits with a rich and creative human mind and you have a capricious entity striving utterly to the create and believe the next best thing that smooches his vulnerability and frailty.

The possibility of an afterlife is undoubtedly soothing, but it has no place in reality.

If there is afterlife that means we've lived in other life before this, why can't we remember, why do we forget about this. Is not even an issue, we are in a state of Forgetiveness
As a Yoruba guy, I was brought up in believing in things list this, heaven, hell, after life, demon, etc.
We believed that people do come back to this world, maybe that's the after life, why do we have to forget this memory.
Many do have dreams about thier past life, If this is not real why the dreams?
I was told some people came back to life, I knew some of them, and I study them and compare them to what I heard about their behaviours In that formal life, same thing with what they are doing now.. Why is it so.
Our after life is here, here on earth, we are made up of energy, and we all know energy can never be destroyed but change from one form to another.
There are lot of secrets in this world of ours, if you pay attention you will see some.

4kings:

I can remember telling you like 5 times that it was my opinion, I wasn't imposing it on you, was I?

Lmaoo . Clear the speck of sawdust from your eye first before you do same to another

"Personal experiences with god", is the working of your subconscious-conscious mind.

Smh ... you won't understand .. I just feel sorry for the atheists anyway ... so sorry for them .. Just let them not blame God when the time comes

mcemmy0z:
If there is afterlife that means we've lived in other life before this, why can't we remember, why do we forget about this. Is not even an issue, we are in a state of Forgetiveness
As a Yoruba guy, I was brought up in believing in things list this, heaven, hell, after life, demon, etc.
We believed that people do come back to this world, maybe that's the after life, why do we have to forget this memory.
Many do have dreams about thier past life, If this is not real why the dreams?
I was told some people came back to life, I knew some of them, and I study them and compare them to what I heard about their behaviours In that formal life, same thing with what they are doing now.. Why is it so.
Our after life is here, here on earth, we are made up of energy, and we all know energy can never be destroyed but change from one form to another.
There are lot of secrets in this world of ours, if you pay attention you will see some.

Evidences for reincarnation are very compelling I must say .

KingEbukasBlog:


I saw your discussions today and I doubt you'd understand me but I'll go ahead anyway

During church services , our messages are centered on good morals and the church exhorts its members to give their lives to Christ and live a good Christian life , a life of rectitude - these are the prerequisites of making Heaven . We don't sit down and worry about the afterlife like Seun portrayed it to be .

Comprende ?

I comprehend but I would only know that if I attend your church

Since I haven't, what I see is HEAVEN AT LAST! which gives an impression of a church more focused on afterlife, your reflective jackets, tracts and billboards also say the same

hopefuLandlord:


I comprehend but I would only know that if I attend your church

Since I haven't, what I see is HEAVEN AT LAST! which gives an impression of a church more focused on afterlife, your reflective jackets, tracts and billboards also say the same

"Heaven at Last " - this is meant to remind you to always live a righteous life devoid of depravities . Your salvation and righteous life get you to Heaven . And please Heaven - different from God's abode - is here on earth and according to the bible not everyone would witness death in other to experience Heaven .