read these excerpts from NY Times on some of the reasons the first EAC 1967-77 collapsed. clearly indicating that Kenyattas primitive way of accumulating wealth was a major tumbling block to the infant commission

'' Kenya. where an entrenched economic structure on capitalist lines existed at independence, modeled itself on the mixed economies of Western Europe. Tanzania. on the other hand, had received such a meager colonial inheritance that its independent rulers had virtually a clean canvas to work upon. Starting with President Nyerere's Fabian socialism, Tanzania gradually moved to a more thorough communal system, with an overwhelming state sector plus peasant cooperatives. Above all, the ideological differences arose from the accidents of leadership. President Jomo Kenyatta is an earthy man with an acquisitive nature. President Nyerere of Tanzania is an ascetic intellectual. Each imposed his personal philosophy upon his people''.

Show us the data. In nigeria some of you are engaged in child trafficking - but what we need is DATA. You have what 40% malnutrition.

obaaderemi:
In the coastal parts of Kenya,they are renting out children to white tourists out of hunger and the liar is talking about turkana alone.

It's back up - why are you digging history - why doesn't Tanzania now support EAC?

cossano:
read these excerpts from NY Times on some of the reasons the first EAC 1967-77 collapsed. clearly indicating that Kenyattas primitive way of accumulating wealth was a major tumbling block to the infant commission

'' Kenya. where an entrenched economic structure on capitalist lines existed at independence, modeled itself on the mixed economies of Western Europe. Tanzania. on the other hand, had received such a meager colonial inheritance that its independent rulers had virtually a clean canvas to work upon. Starting with President Nyerere's Fabian socialism, Tanzania gradually moved to a more thorough communal system, with an overwhelming state sector plus peasant cooperatives. Above all, the ideological differences arose from the accidents of leadership. President Jomo Kenyatta is an earthy man with an acquisitive nature. President Nyerere of Tanzania is an ascetic intellectual. Each imposed his personal philosophy upon his people''.

Mkenya2019:
Credible data by credible organisation that you cannot intimidate like you always do in your little totalitarian regime of Magufuli.

Twaweza went live a few years ago and declared many Tanzanians were going to bed hungry. This they did after conducting a survey.

Twaweza (not Kenya) reported this....

In February 2017, 35% of citizens reported that a household member had gone without eating the whole day due to lack of food in the previous three months, compared to 21% who reported that this had occurred in the six months before September 2016.

A large majority of Sauti za Wananchi respondents (78%) report food shortages where they live. The situation is worse in rural areas where 84% reporting food shortages compared to a still substantial 64% in urban areas.

At least half of Tanzania’s households report that they worried about running out of food (69%); there was not enough food to feed all household members (51%), or a household member skipped a meal because they could not get food (50%).

https://www.twaweza.org/go/sauti-hunger-2017

Dude,

Twaweza is an NGO.Its not a gov organ! They can produce any biased survey to please their masters.

Now, let me post some few hungry Kenyans,then u will know who is starving btn a Tanzanian and a Kenyan.

Faked Indexes vs real photos.

Turkana fellows. Loading photos...

Picture break - Kenya. one of world leader in clean renewable energy.

So what if it's an NGO is it kenyan?. Data is data. They all converge - your country has serious hunger and poverty issues - deal with it.

Let try your own gov sources..

Citing the Tanzania Demographic and Health Survey ‘s Key Findings Report for 2015–2016, Le Kirkegaard adds that one in three children under five in Tanzania are stunted due to a chronic lack of essential nutrients such as vitamins and minerals, which are needed for growth and development. In the worst affected areas of the country, this number rises to almost one in two.
The resulting phenomenon is known as ‘hidden hunger’, where the quality of food that the children eat does not meet their nutrient requirements, leading to stunted growth and a number of health issues later in life.
https://pesacheck.org/are-nine-out-of-ten-tanzanian-children-undernourished-b558a8380b16

Kazikazi:
Dude,

Twaweza is an NGO.Its not a gov organ! They can produce any biased survey to please their masters.

Now, let me post some few hungry Kenyans,then u will know who is starving btn a Tanzanian and a Kenyan.

Faked Indexes vs real photos.

Turkana fellows. Loading photos...

Mkenya2019:
Kenya beef industry - boost of modern ranches and breeds like Kenyan Borana - one most sought after beef cow


Modern ranches

An animal like that can go for up to 6k$. You'd be shocked how much butchers pay for quality.

Mkenya2019:
Kenya Agricluture - I think we are approaching 20B dollars - before we get to Sugar Industry.

Despite it's problem - Kenya sugar industry is bigger than Nigeria and the usual laggards. In a good year kenya produces about 650,000 metric tonnes of sugar against consumption of 900,000 tonnes.

Kenya has many sugar factories - with many brands

All countries of this world has some industries.

You are posting farms? Do u know we have bigger farms in Tanzania than your small white mans farms?

These are rice farms in mbeya,Tanzania

Of course every country has it. I was analyzing Kenya agriculture. I think you produce more rice than us - but we produce more sugar. Again figures and facts.

Kazikazi:
All countries of this world has some industries.

You are posting farms? Do u know we have bigger farms in Tanzania than your small white mans farms?

These are rice farms in mbeya,Tanzania

Mkenya2019:
I don't see any huge difference in statistical capacity btw nigeria and kenya. Besides when we are talking about data - we are not talking exclusively about gov data from national statistic bodies - we are talking data from various sources. Nairobi has a sort of organisations collecting
and collating their own data.

Besides assume our data is cooked - does that make your grim situation any better

The chart shows your data is always overcooked and can't be trusted. It deteriorated over the years.What we need are hard facts.Kenyans are known as more corrupt than nigerians. That's the reason we can't accept your data here. Rub your eyes and look again.

Lamu pristine beaches - voted #1 last year in Africa ; Diani beach mombasa won this year

Mkenya2019:
Picture break - Random Kenya.

That's not random. That is Nairobi CBD and we have seen it here like thousands times in these threads, you can start give us pic of other towns in kenya.

Mkenya2019:
Kenya Livestock sector - Kenya has one Africa largest herds of cattle, sheeps and goats. I think it about equal what Tanzania and Nigeria have - despite them having DOUBLE KENYA land mass and far MORE ARABLE land.

According to Knoema.com - Nigeria has 20M cattle - and Kenya has 18M. Tanzania has 26M. Ethiopia have 54 m cattle (largest herd in the Africa). South Africa 13m.

Of course kenya has way more exotic breeds than either of the laggards

When it come to sheep & goats...I bet kenya leads in Africa in goats (ethiopia 25.5 million sheep and 24.06 million goats)...goats fuels the Nyama Choma industry.

Kenya animal census -
Exotic Cattle - 3,355,407

Indigenous Cattle -14,112,367

Sheep- 17,129,606

Goats - 27,740,153

Camels -2,971,111

Most of Kenya semi-arid is use to keep cattle, sheeps and goats. The arid areas teem with Camels.

Among'st notable cattle farmers are maasais.Somalis also keep a lot of camels and cows and so are many kenyan tribes that are nomadic and pastoral.

Both Tanzania and Nigeria have more cattle than Kenya. Fact.

World 1,467,548,724
Rank Country Head % Of
Total
1 Brazil 211,764,292 14.43%
2 India 189,000,000 12.88%
3 China 113,500,000 7.73%
4 United States 89,299,600 6.08%
5 Ethiopia 54,000,000 3.68%
6 Argentina 51,095,000 3.48%
7 Sudan 41,917,000 2.86%
8 Pakistan 38,299,000 2.61%
9 Mexico 32,402,461 2.21%
10 Australia 29,290,769 2.00%
11 Tanzania 24,531,673 1.67%
12 Bangladesh 24,000,000 1.64%
13 Colombia 23,141,388 1.58%
14 Nigeria 20,000,000 1.36%
15 Russian
Federation 19,930,354 1.36%
16 France 19,095,797 1.30%
17 Kenya 18,138,500 1.24%

Mkenya2019:
I don't see any huge difference in statistical capacity btw nigeria and kenya. Besides when we are talking about data - we are not talking exclusively about gov data from national statistic bodies - we are talking data from various sources. Nairobi has a sort of organisations collecting
and collating their own data.

Besides assume our data is cooked - does that make your grim situation any better

You published stupid indexes showing you are doing better in food security than Nigeria and Tanzania. But suddenly, your people started starving and eventually u buried a lot of souls due to hunger in 2019! Many people decided to help you.China gave u food aid in 2019 to avert that crisis which you hid under your fake hunger index figures.

Should we trust Kenyan statistical bureau again?

obaaderemi:
Both Tanzania and Nigeria have more cattle than Kenya. Fact.

And Kenyan are starving to death.Fact number 2

That rich coming from folks who have held census twice - in 50yrs and couldn't afford it. When did capacity means credibility

obaaderemi:
The chart shows your data is always overcooked and can't be trusted. It deteriorated over the years.What we need are hard facts.Kenyans are known as more corrupt than nigerians. That's the reason we can't accept your data here. Rub your eyes and look again.

You have twice kenya land mass like Tanzania & Ethiopia. You also have way more population. But you only have 2M more cattle - and very few exotic breed.

obaaderemi:
Both Tanzania and Nigeria have more cattle than Kenya. Fact.

samorobo:

You are Kenyan. So desperate.
It only a matter if time before i decipher your true kenyan identity; I mean your actual here in nairaland.

Evidence 1 : why call yourself OBAKILLAH which would sound the same as OBA KILLER. I think I am beginning to guess who this is. You are definitely one of those kenyans that has had a harsh encounter with obaderemi be it yesterday or other days. I have just narrowed the names down to 2. I will watch your comment closely to finalise observation.

I saw the stupid moniker yesterday but didn't give much thought to it because I didn't know they could be desperate to that extent. So they're now cloning our monikers. It means we are in their heads.
You need to see grown Kenyan men crying here yesterday about getting banned,using that as an excuse when they had nothing further to prove after the exposure we did on their Chinese debts and useless SGR yesterday.
But I honestly thought one of them would copy the cossano moniker. The guy is always forthright. Kenya needs more people like that.

Data, Indices and indicators are not generated by KNBS or TZ gov exclusively . Like you saw with Twaweza - they are generated by all sort of organisations. And they all should generally come to consensus. This is SOCIAL SCIENCE. It's scientific process.

It easy - pick a piece of paper - randomly sample about 2,000 Tanzanians - and ask them if they had any or enough food - and like Twaweza did - you should come to around 78%


For instance this https://www.globalhungerindex.org/results/ is not done by Kenya.

Kenya is ranked 77 - and Tanzania 95 - and Nigeria as always last 103.

If you cook data like Nigeria GDP - you can easily out that through verification from other sources.

Kazikazi:
You published stupid indexes showing you are doing better in food security than Nigeria and Tanzania. But suddenly, your people started starving and eventually u buried a lot of souls due to hunger in 2019! Many people decided to help you.China gave u food aid in 2019 to avert that crisis which you hid under your fake hunger index figures.

Should we trust Kenyan statistical bureau again?

Mkenya2019:
Data, Indices and indicators are not generated by KNBS or TZ gov. Like you saw with Twaweza - they are generated by all sort of organisations. And they all should generally come to consensus. This is SCIENCE. It's scientific process.

If you cook data like Nigeria GDP - you can easily out that through verification from other sources.

So u came up with faked hunger index figures in 2019 in order to feel great? But what followed?

People died from starvation in Kenya while your hunger indexes were so better! Should we keep on trusting statistics from Kenya?

Mkenya2019:
You have twice kenya land mass like Tanzania & Ethiopia. You also have way more population. But you only have 2M more cattle - and very few exotic breed.

You see why I said you should refrain from discussing economics and finance here. Russia is 8 times bigger than Argentina but Argentina has far more cattle. Cattle production doesn't depend on land size only. Ethiopia also has more cattle than Argentina while Argentina is far larger than Ethiopia.
Bottom line: Nigeria has more cattle than Kenya.

If we had said Kenya has zero hunger issues. You'd say we cooked. Kenya has hunger problem too. They are pockets of the country esp in the marginalized Arid North (from Turkana to Somali border) where people are struggling.

We know it. That is why we have about 1.2M people receiving monthly stipend to just buy food. We also know we have many disabled people - we send them money monthly - we don't export them to Tanzania towns to beg like you do.

As you speak we have about 5M kenyans (about 1.2M household) under some welfare systems where they get money monthly to meet their needs....we are annually ramping the figures.

Worse we don't ban research institutions like Twaweza or the media (like Tanzania) from highlighting hunger problem.

Kazikazi:
So u came up with faked hunger index figures in 2019 in order to feel great? But what followed?

People died from starvation in Kenya while your hunger indexes were so better! Should we keep on trusting statistics from Kenya?

Kazikazi:
So u came up with faked hunger index figures in 2019 in order to feel great? But what followed?

People died from starvation in Kenya while your hunger indexes were so better! Should we keep on trusting statistics from Kenya?

He's desperate like yesterday.

Lets ignore the landmass. You're just looking for any win .Nigeria has less 2m more cows than Kenya. Ethiopia has more than double the cows. We have more sheep and goats than you do. Happy now. Maybe you have more pigs and chicken - but it appears we have more livestock production than you do. But wait until you hear Yemi Kale - he probably claim you livestock production is worth 30B dollars.

obaaderemi:
You see why I said you should refrain from discussing economics and finance here. Russia is 8 times bigger than Argentina but Argentina has far more cattle. Cattle production doesn't depend on land size only. Ethiopia also has more cattle than Argentina while Argentina is far larger than Ethiopia.
Bottom line: Nigeria has more cattle than Ethiopia.

Mkenya2019:
Data, Indices and indicators are not generated by KNBS or TZ gov exclusively . Like you saw with Twaweza - they are generated by all sort of organisations. And they all should generally come to consensus. This is SOCIAL SCIENCE. It's scientific process.

It easy - pick a piece of paper - randomly sample about 2,000 Tanzanians - and ask them if they had any or enough food - and like Twaweza did - you should come to around 78%


For instance this https://www.globalhungerindex.org/results/ is not done by Kenya.

Kenya is ranked 77 - and Tanzania 95 - and Nigeria as always last 103.

If you cook data like Nigeria GDP - you can easily out that through verification from other sources.

Twaweza is one of those NGOs which create data to fool Europeans so they can get money from them. Why didn't they mention region or districts in which kids face malnutrition. Those money which they are given by whites they should reinvest in those claimed issue rather put them in their pocket. We need data from FAO or other reputable source and not kenyan NGOs.

Maasai mara - count the hot air balloons - tourist watching TZ passport carrying zebras and wilderbest cross over to Kenya. This happens around July.

Lame. Now everyone conspiring against the mighty United Republic. Such arguments you here your siblings the Nigerians make.

Acadavah:


Twaweza is one of those NGOs which create data to fool Europeans so they can get money from them. Why didn't they mention region or districts in which kids face malnutrition. Those money which they are given by whites they should reinvest in those claimed issue rather put them in their pocket. We need data from FAO or other reputable source and not kenyan NGOs.

Mkenya2019:
Kenya agriculture sector. Let see how cooked it is.

1) Kenya Dairy Sector - The largest and most sophisticated in Africa. With an estimated 5 billion litres of milk produced in the country. With about 648M litres processed. It accounts anything btw 5-8% of GDP and about 15-20% of the Kenya's agricluture GDP. In dollars terms - the sector is worth anything 5-8 billion dollars.

Some of biggest industry players include Brookside (owned by Kenyattas) - with 45% market share, KCC (owned by gov & farmers) with 35% and many farmers-co-op processors like Githunguri (10%).

Suffice to say kenya leads Africa in milk consumption...

Brookside is now well over 1B dollars in valuation and sell it's milk as far as Zambia. Few years ago French Dairy Conglomerate (Danone) valued it at 400M dollars when it acquired a minority stake.

In Africa - Brookside, Danone and Arbaaj - are biggest player. With signing of Africa Free Trade - expect to see Brookside milk in West Africa shores.

Here the famous Fulani herdsman who also double up as Nigeria President admiring Brookside factory in Ruiru Nairobi.

Stop lying, Oga while I am still around.
Kenya produces about 4bn litres of milk. A litre of raw milk in Kenya is ksh36. In fact, that ksh36 is the highest in the market, it is paid by Brookside.

If you multiplied 4bn litres by ksh36, you get about $1.5bn.

Remember, your milk industry is only 20% formal.

And please please please, stop lying once again! Brookside was never valued by Danone at $400million in 2014.The last time Brookside was publicly valued was in 2009.It was a paltry $170mn.

So,milk $1.5bn max.Let me go to tea.
Today,we will get the true idea of how small your GDP is actually. Trust me.

obaaderemi:
He's desperate like yesterday.

He fumbled big time yesterday. A dude claimed to be a Tanzanian but he failed to even understand a Tz Swahili! I think he didn't expect I would take him that route. A very low IQ dude

obaaderemi:
Stop lying, Oga while I am still around.
Kenya produces about 4bn litres of milk. A litre of raw milk in Kenya is ksh36. In fact, that ksh36 is the highest in the market, it is paid by Brookside.

If you multiplied 4bn litres by ksh36, you get about $1.5bn.

Remember, your milk industry is only 20% formal.

And please please please, stop lying once again! Brookside was never valued by Danone at $400million in 2014.The last time Brookside was publicly valued was in 2009.It was a paltry $170mn.

So,milk $1.5bn max.Let me go to tea.
Today,we will get the true idea of how small your GDP is actually. Trust me.

Yah take him that route! These lies must stop.Even these pics of that brookside shows the factory isn't big. The milk tankers are too small.I wish they could show me their production lines I could tell how much they can produce

in the spirit of enlightening one another, because i see some common misconception about Nairobi here a lot.
1.Nairobi has about 4 business districts, they include the following

a) The old CBD (this the one that is easily recognizable on photos)
b) Upper Hill the fastest growing business district in Africa
c) Westlands
d) Mombasa road

kenya's commercial and high end property segments is doing pretty good, you can give us that

however, we are doing poorly in lower end properties, mass transport and gabbage collection.

one of the major reasons why westerners prefer Nairobi over Dar is because of its good climate, Nairobi climate is cool all year, infact there is very little need for air conditioning in Nairobi, this is what i love about Nairobi the most.

obaaderemi:
Stop lying, Oga while I am still around.
Kenya produces about 4bn litres of milk. A litre of raw milk in Kenya is ksh36. In fact, that ksh36 is the highest in the market, it is paid by Brookside.

If you multiplied 4bn litres by ksh36, you get about $1.5bn.

Remember, your milk industry is only 20% formal.

And please please please, stop lying once again! Brookside was never valued by Danone at $400million in 2014.The last time Brookside was publicly valued was in 2009.It was a paltry $170mn.

So,milk $1.5bn max.Let me go to tea.
Today,we will get the true idea of how small your GDP is actually. Trust me.

I am glad you stopped heckling...go ahead and I will respond to you tomorrow with facts and figures.