Deep Sight:

Frankly i am deeply unimpressed Tudor. Are you suggesting to me that a supreme being must intervene in every act of human barbarity in order to prove that he exists?

No not everyone but the big ones that make world headlines news like the genocide in rwanda. I think he should intervene for the sake of humanity

@Deep sight.
I'm begining to sound like a fucking broken record! This thread tackles the idea of the all good, loving, powerful, merciful etc Abrahamic God.

Ur idea of God ,its ontology, nature and workings remains undefined and sketchy. The abrahamic god is WELL defined hence thats why its the focus of this thread. Whether u admit it or not ur light spark God and that of the Abrahamic religions are two different ideas.

U simply look at this issue from the perspective of the perpetrators of the genocide blaming their free will when instead it should be viewed through the eyes of the helpless victims. Is the idea of an all loving and powerful god who stands up for the oppressed and downthrodden not wat is put forward by the abrahamic faiths?

Ur assertion god lets you make mistakes to learn is ridiculous in this situation. . .let me think, God allows me, my wife and kids to be massacred like dogs so my murderer can learn his lesson?hmmm Now I'm just a dummy for moral instruction? How grande!

tpia.:

btw read through the article you posted if you know how to read.

then get back to me.

Does this fool have anything new to say?

After embarassingly exposing your lies and ignorance you decided to derail the thread (stupidly) by asking for the history of the genocide. I presented you with a comprehensive article that covers the topic and what does this senseless animal do? NOTHING!

Its obvious you've run out of ideas. Your time wasting antics are that to be expected from a brain-dead illiterate of which you obviously are.

Move along if you've got nothing to say and let others continue.

Its not by force to feel smart, embrace your extremely low IQ and you might actually have a good life. That you ride the short bus over there shouldn't be a stumbling block. . . .forest gump did it and so can you.

I am certain you are aware that Tpia asked for the history of that crisis to demonstrate the HUMAN causes.

There is no way in hell you can dispute that HUMANS wreck the world.

AND there is also NO WAY you can show that if God exists, he must per force stop humans from doing shit.

How do you know God's mentality? For what bigger purposes do you know such an entity may allow such to persist. What the hell - how do you know we aren't guinea pigs in a cosmic experiment? ? ? ?

Of course the zebra whose family has been eaten by Lions may also blame God and declare that since Lions ate his family, then God does not exist - he is only a Zebra, of course, and could never have the head-space to understand that such tragic events are necessary for population control and a balanced eco-system.

Tudor, are you playing the Zebra here?

Tudór:

@Deep sight.
I'm begining to sound like a fucking broken record! This thread tackles the idea of the all good, loving, powerful, merciful etc Abrahamic God.

Wrong there! You cannot succeed in that line of reasoning because the Abrahamic God AS DEFINED is an absolute law unto himself and does whatsoever he pleases for reasons best known to him without reference to ANYONE.

Do NOT pretend that the Abrahamic God has always been presented as merciful and loving. You have read the Old Testament and you are aware that he is presented as very harsh indeed. He does what he pleases. Accordingly the genocide in Rwanda CANNOT be used to disprove the existence of the Abrahamic God.

U simply look at this issue from the perspective of the perpetrators of the genocide blaming their free will when instead it should be viewed through the eyes of the helpless victims

What do you mean helpless victims? How do you know if such is not being visited on them on account of past deeds? (Karma/ You reap what you sow). If you are not the supreme being yourself, you can never have a compound view of the fate that each person deserves.

Deep Sight:

the Abrahamic God AS DEFINED is an absolute law unto himself and does whatsoever he pleases for reasons best known to him without reference to ANYONE.

Do NOT pretend that the Abrahamic God has always been presented as merciful and loving. You have read the Old Testament and you are aware that he is presented as very harsh indeed.

Have you read the New Testament at all? If not I suggest you do.

What do you mean helpless victims? How do you know if such is not being visited on them on account of past deeds? (Karma/ You reap what you sow). If you are not the supreme being yourself, you can never have a compound view of the fate that each person deserves.

Ha you mean the almost 1 million people including children and infants were killed because of karma? I guess the one day old baby who was murdered was done for by his repeated painful kicking of his mama during pregnancy. . .bad kid!

Tudór:

Have you read the New Testament at all? If not I suggest you do.

Not even in the New Testament does the Abrahamic God relinquish his prerogative to do exactly as he pleases without reference to ANYONE.

Tudór:


Ha you mean the almost 1 million people including children and infants were killed because of karma? I guess the one day old baby who was murdered was done for by his repeated painful kicking of his mama during pregnancy. . .bad kid!

Meaningless. Doctrines of Karma across the world have always presupposed that it is carried from one lifetime to the next. So kids are not exempt.

Deep Sight:
I am certain you are aware that Tpia asked for the history of that crisis to demonstrate the HUMAN causes.

Tpia is a time waster. There is no disputing humans caused the genocide. . .nobody said it was carried out by aliens.

There is no way in hell you can dispute that HUMANS wreck the world.
AND there is also NO WAY you can show that if God exists, he must per force stop humans from doing shit.

And why not? Does he not love us anymore?

He supposedly parted the Read sea for the Jews, while the egyptians drowned right? What stops him from doing sumtn similar for the 1 million victims and let the rebels die instead?

How do you know God's mentality? For what bigger purposes do you know such an entity may allow such to persist

Ridiculous excuse! Anytime something occurs we're told to look at the bigger picture. I and my family killed and you say look at the bigger picture? Well I can't because I'm DEAD!

Same ol' same ol'

Same useless discussions, same useless old farts questioning God.

What the hell - how do you know we aren't guinea pigs in a cosmic experiment? ? ? ?

Its ridiculous to see this line being used to propose the existence of God. I laugh in greek.

Of course the zebra whose family has been eaten by Lions may also blame God and declare that since Lions ate his family, then God does not exist - he is only a Zebra, of course, and could never have the head-space to understand that such tragic events are necessary for population control and a balanced eco-system.

Tudor, are you playing the Zebra here?

Last time I checked the bible, Jesus wasn't sent to come die for the zebra neither did mohammed receive the quaran for the lion so I have no idea what you're blabbing about.

Tudór:


And why not? Does he not love us anymore?

And how are you qualified to determin what a transcendent being MUST DO.

Oh, i forgot, having discovered atheism, you are a transcendent being yourself, and accordingly you should know?

In what ways can you imagine that you can determine how a trascenmdent being should show his love?

What if such a being is not even interested in showing love at that point in time for reasons best known to him. Oh, don't worry, Tudor is on hand to correct him!

Get real man! And the guinea pigs arguments is just that: you cannot determine for the abrahamic God his pourposes since he is a dictator!

Tudór:

There is no disputing humans caused the genocide. . .nobody said it was carried out by aliens.

Thanks for conceding defeat.

Gudnite!

Deep Sight:

Thanks for conceding defeat.

Gudnite!

So what?
Whats the use of an all powerful so called protector of mankind from evil when he cannot protect innocent children from the hands of evil men?

Why are you god in the first place? Is it only to sit in heaven and allow humans kiss your ass?

Infact why pray at all since god cannot bring himself so low to interfere with the affairs of man.

^^^ Following your reasoning God must catch all persons trying to commit suicide by jumping from a cliff. He must catch them mid-air, and thereby save them.

That's bull. So long as you are capable of making decisions you will be responsible for your actions.

Period.

Besides you have already conceded above that humans and not God, are responsible for all that.

So you no get case again, matter don end!

Deep Sight:

^^^ Following your reasoning God must catch all persons trying to commit suicide by jumping from a cliff. He must catch them mid-air, and thereby save them.

That's bull. So long as you are capable of making decisions you will be responsible for your actions.

Period.

Besides you have already conceded above that humans and not God, are responsible for all that.

So you no get case again, matter don end!

More cock and bull!

What decisions did the 1 million victims make? Oh I guess they all consciously decided to be killed. . .bullshit!

deep sight - how does karma cut across generations?

where did you get that ideology from?

people like tudor give atheists or whatever ideology he claims, a bad name.

Its not even worth it to waste time arguing with fools like him- the guy is a beast, incapable of understanding anything unrelated to his beastlike nature.

let him continue stewing in his ignorant ramblings.

ode.

manmustwac:

No not everyone but the big ones that make world headlines news like the genocide in rwanda. I think he should intervene for the sake of humanity

now, I asked a simple question such as how would any of you complaining about rwanda, expect God to stop tribalism and racism on NL. What methods would you expect Him to use.

Nobody gave a coherent answer and and some people in particular would rather rain curses and run their foul mouth, instead of tackling simple questions even a one year old would know.

God should intervene in the big headlines for the sake of humanity, but leave the "small small" things because they're less important? Are you listening to yourself?

Ever dodging personal responsiblity arent we.

tpia.:

people like tudor give atheists or whatever ideology he claims, a bad name.

Its not even worth it to waste time arguing with fools like him- the guy is a beast, incapable of understanding anything unrelated to his beastlike nature.

let him continue stewing in his ignorant ramblings.

ode.

Isn't it obvious this thread has gone beyond your intellect?

Its clear as day you've got nothing sensible to say why not move?

tpia.:

now, I asked a simple question such as how would any of you complaining about rwanda, expect God to stop tribalism and racism on NL. What methods would you expect Him to use.

[b]Nobody gave a coherent answer [/b]and and some people in particular would rather rain curses and run their foul mouth, instead of tackling simple questions even a one year old would know.

God should intervene in

Excuses!!

According to the bible God can change and anybodys heart as he so wishes just like he did with pharoah. . .how is that not coherent? Is it not written in the bible?
Is exodus 7 now missing from your copy of the bible?

Never did this nitwit dispute this answer neither did she show how incoherent the answer is. . . . I laugh!

You're definately a time waster. . .move over fool!

Tudór:


Excuses!!

According to the bible God can change and anybodys heart as he so wishes just like he did with pharoah. . .how is that not coherent? Is it not written in the bible?
Is exodus 7 now missing from your copy of the bible?

Never did this nitwit dispute this answer neither did she show how incoherent the answer is. . . . I laugh!

You're definately a time waster. . .move over fool!

Uhm Uncle Tudor, Good Morning, I can see you guyz are having a healthy debate, well done ooo.

You can NEVER have a debate with empty-heads talkless of a healthy one. . . Their only aim is to use all the time wasting tactics to evade questions and try to pass off as "smart".

The sad thing is the deceive only themselves because the world can see through their bullshit and recognise dem for the illiterate morons they are.

Tudór:

You can NEVER have a debate with[b] empty-heads[/b] talkless of a healthy one. . . Their only aim is to use all the time wasting tactics to evade questions and try to pass off as "smart".

The sad thing is the deceive only themselves because the world can see through their bullshit and recognise dem for the illiterate morons they are.

I did not see the bolded please, mum just called me.

Banom! them don unbann you!

Where was God During The Rwanda Genocide? A valid question to ask if one is genuinely seeking for answers. As I see it, the problem of evil and suffering is one of the principal reasons given for rejecting the existence of GOD. If GOD be all-knowing, all-powerful and loving why permit atrocities like the Rwandan genocide or the Jewish Holocaust? The answers are plainly revealed in the BIBLE (not a book of made up stories and fables as some here may claim but the book through which GOD reveals answers to life's burning questions).
Firstly, the bible clearly makes us to understand that at some time in the past, there was no evil or suffering in the world. "Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good." Indeed, across different cultures around the world, there abound stories about a time when the world was perfect and mankind existed in an idyllic state.
Secondly, man did not remain in this state of innocence but fell from grace; an event that is revealed to us again in the bible: "Then to Adam He said, 'Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, "You shall not eat of it"': Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.' " An event that had tragic consequences for all humanity and creation.
1.  [F]or all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
2.  For the wages of sin is death
3.  And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.
You may well ask what bearing has this on the Rwandan Genocide? Every bearing because every human alive is flawed and incapable of anything good. You and I, given a set of circumstances, are capable of committing atrocities as bad or even worse than those in Rwanda. "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings." And: "But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags."
God then is All-Knowing, All-Powerful and loving. He is also Holy and a God of Justice and Mercy and his justice must needs be satisfied. Where was GOD during the Rwandan Genocide? He was very much present. Was he powerless to act? No. He had already acted. Tragedies like the Rwandan Genocide are not the worst thing that can befall any man. No the worst is to be estranged from the eternal GOD by our sin and to suffer the hideous consequences of the judgement of that sin. If one were ill and went to the doctor; which would be preferred? To treat the symptoms of the illness or to eradicate the cause of the illness: root, stem and branch.
As I said earlier GOD has already acted by removing the cause of the illness (sin in man):
1.  "For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
2.  "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God."
3.  "Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father"
Seeing that GOD has acted, what must we do?
1.  "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord"
2.  " Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name [Jesus Christ of Nazareth] under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Jesus Christ was once asked a similar question concerning a massacre of Jews by Pilate. What was his response in Luke 13:1-5? "There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."
GOD has set apart a day in which he will judge everyone including the perpetrators of the Rwandan Genocide.

Tudór:

More cock and bull!

What decisions did the 1 million victims make? Oh I guess they all consciously decided to be killed. . .bullshit!

Seems to me you did not hear the term "karma across successive life-times" (not generations) which i used? ? ? ?

Anyhow, when i am done with my book, which is a mix of fact and fictioon and deals with conflict situations in africa, i will let you have a copy. Maybe, just maybe it will put things in perspective for you.

I am certain the question of Karma is too deep for you Tudor - so let's just stick with your already accepted concession of defeat: namely that humans and not God are responsible for Rwanda.

I would have thought that would be obvious to a kindergarten pupil?

Deep Sight:
Seems to me you did not hear the term "karma across successive life-times" (not generations) which i used? ? ? ?

Anyhow, when i am done with my book, which is a mix of fact and fictioon and deals with conflict situations in africa, i will let you have a copy. Maybe, just maybe it will put things in perspective for you.

I am certain the question of Karma is too deep for you Tudor - so let's just stick with your already accepted concession of defeat: namely that humans and not God are responsible for Rwanda.

Lame karma excuse.

Its karma across successive life-times? Pray tell, what were you in your former life, a goat, horse, jew or arab? Find someone else to beladen with this sick joke abeg.

Karma is absolute nonsense. NO EVIDENCE to support such mythical claims. Re-incarnation is even more deranged.

God bears responsibility for rwanda. .he created man, has the power to control him. He coulda stopped it but didn't. . .even legally he's liable!

Now you are venturing into absolute derangement Tudor: Listen to yourself:

In one breath you said -

There is no disputing humans caused the genocide. . .nobody said it was carried out by aliens.

And then in another breath -

Tudór:


God bears responsibility for rwanda. . .even legally he's liable!

I hope you can see that you are on a state bordering on psychosis. How do you reconcile the above statements? ? ? ? In one breath humans are responsible. In another breath God is responsible.

Even more insane is the fact that you state, ever so flagrantly that God bears responsibility, and is legally liable – forgetting that according to you, he does not exist!

I am sure you have noticed I prefer a higher standard of debate than this crap.

You are offering me trash Tudor, and I will not countenance this schizophrenic series of admissions of defeat and self contradictions that you have served up. Go call in someone else to present your points coherently for you.

Firstly this thread is being debated at the level of the religionist i.e if god did exist, where the fuc.k was he in 1994? If no justifiable reason is presented the as far as we're concerned god does not exist.

In the so called "breath" where I stated God is also responsible and legally liable you conviniently edited out where I presented reasons for his culpability. . . . It has now come to the embarassing stage where you edit my post to deceitfully trump up ridiculous notions of a contradiction?

Somebody wake me up when this guy has something else to say abeg.

Tudór:

Firstly this thread is being debated at the level of the religionist i.e if god did exist, where the fuc.k was he in 1994? If no justifiable reason is presented the as far as we're concerned god does not exist.

In the so called "breath" where I stated God is also responsible and legally liable you conviniently edited out where I presented reasons for his culpability. . . . It has now come to the embarassing stage where you edit my post to deceitfully trump up ridiculous notions of a contradiction?

Somebody wake me up when this guy has something else to say abeg.

Ok you can go to bed.