The Holy Prophet being the 'last prophet' is also subject to interpretation ,because his prophethood depends on GOD,so if he(prophet Mohammed pbuh) says he's the last & God Almighty decides to send someone else nko? Is your faith based on the Holy prophet or on God??

Allah says in the Quran that "Sunnatillahi Tabtila. Sunnatillahi Tahwillah. In both cases what is expressed is that Allah's way is Unchanging. So when Allah says "Kataman Anbiyya"; seal of prophethood, then He will not renage on His statement. When Allah says that His Favor on mankind is made complete on Quran, all of these are saying that there is no changing, and there will never be any more Messenger, Prophet, Religion, Spiritual Book, or any Guidance from Him, after what is given to Muhammad (AS). "Inna tukliful mi'ad: Allah will never renage on His Promise".

Also the HP asked muslims to read the gospels,yet the gospels point clearly to Jesus,so which one will you accept?

Never a single time, from Allah in the Quran and or Muhammad (AS) from Hadith mentioned that the Gospel, or earlier Books be read by Muslims of Muhammad. All that was said is "belief" in them, which goes to that point in time that the Book(s) was/were with the Messenger, Prophet before corruptions entered it/them; the many writers who changed and entered what they wanted, including all the extra entries; Acts of Apostles, The Epistles, others on the Revelations and even the others that the Catholic/orthodox has/have and the Protestants dont have them!

As per Jews that believe in Jesus,please google 'Messinic Jews' , also the Trinity which has being a bone of contention on NL,there are christians who do not believe in the Trinity ; check UNITARIANS.

I know the majority of Jews dont believe in Jesus. Infact no one of the Jews I know believe in Jesus. No Jews in the governance of Israel believe in Jesus, he will not be allowed to sit in there.

So my point is we only know so much and calling one thing pristine may be a misnomer if analysed objectively.

You are correct here. Especially its all acceptable in Christendom.

[/quote]My point about culture ,traditions mixing with religion has to do with certain practises that can be called 'islamic' whereas they may actually be cultural,these may be classified as 'pristine' e.g burying the dead same day,women covering etc.[quote]

Burying is not cultural, but we know many Quranic verses (Surah Azhab, even Imran), ahadith that support immediate burial, and discourage any unnecessary delay. Mourning is limited and prolonging the burial will encourage prolonged mourning. Covering are expressed in Surah Azhab and Surah Muminu.

@ifyalways
I sincerely admire your character, competence and composure in light of the discussion inthis thread and how you have composed yourself even though your stance and that of Islam may not sync. Well done you are appreciated.
I implore my Muslim brothers and others alike to thread the example of our sincere christian sis in matters like this.

@Lagosboy
I commend you from holding on the civility of discussion and offering to build bridges between humanity and faith (esp. in discussion as delicate as religion). You have really demonstrated the Quranic injuncture of Decency of dialogue in Quran  and follow the example of the messenger of Allah (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)

The Quranic principle of dialogue is based on wisdom, good preaching and answering offenses in the best way. Allah says: “invite all to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious, for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from his path, and who receives guidance”. Let's dothe right thing

@Jairzinho

I think the issue is better laid to rest. Let it me put it succsuccinctly As a person if you have chosen to disbelief the tenet of Islam as conveyed by The messenger of Allah (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) You have chosen NOT to be a Muslim. The philosophical argument of what constitute Islam is not founded as the OP is not debating here but giving you fact (you either take it or leave it) that Allah stated in the Qur'an and Prophet muhammad convey in equivocally

@All
with these kind of knowledge sharing and truth seeking session at least a sincere person will see the faith in its true form with bias, prejudice, half-truth and disinformation.
Even those who want to critique the faith will do so in fairness, honesty and based on truth (I will at least pay attention to the point of view, at least for the honesty/integrity.

I hereby once again applaud Ifyalways for her tenacity.

Thanks

@ifyalways

You asked some of these questuions, and many more,
Did Muhammed (PBUH) fought war? why
are apostate sentence to death in islam?
what is islam view on freedom of worship? etc.

The write up below provides some insight,


BETWEEN APOSTACY and TRAITORS: PEACE AND WAR

Who are the Apostates in Islam?[/i]
Apostasy / is the formal religious disaffiliation or abandonment or renunciation of one's religion.
Apostates are those who decide to leave the religion. The Quran does not provide the death sentence for those who desert the religion of Islam. Instead it speaks repeatedly of people going back to unbelief after believing, but never once does it say that they should be killed or punished. Never did Islam ordered the death of those who leave Islam.

Let us look at Qur'an 2:217 "They ask thee (Mohammed) concerning fighting In the Prohibited Month. Say: Fighting therein Is a grave (offence); but graver is it In the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith (Islam) and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the hereafter; they will be companions of the fire and will abide therein."


The absolute freedom of religion in Islam: The Question of Renegades and Treason
Renegades/traitors (ENEMIES OF THE STATE), a person who deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principlesand then turn around to falsely defame, harm it unjustly.
Let it be known that the setting of Muslim in Medina was that of a state. Muhammad (PBUH) was not only a messenger of Allah but in addition a Head of State, and Commander in Chief of the defense force. From time immemorial Treason has never been tolerated by any state. Even under western democratic law treason carries the most gruesome of penalty (in most case death). The enemies of Islam wanted to take advantage of the predicament of the Muslims state (under constant oppression and aggression of war by pagan) to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting. Again, using such opportunity to gather intelligence to betray the muslim state or cause injury enemies)

BACKGROUND AND EVIDENCES IN THE QURAN
Let us look at Qur’an Verse 3:72 "A section of the People of the Book say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam)." To protect Islam from such satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians).

Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him in his capacity as the Head of State ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This deterence law was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites from the People of the Book who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards.

Allah Almighty ordered the Muslims to kill the pagans who fought against the Muslims. The command is against the backdrop of a faith community under existential threat from the pagan (who impose economic sanction on them, coconfiscate here properties/wealth, persecute them because of their faith and put them under the constant aggression of war). The following Qur’an Verse talks about all of the enemiesl.

Let us look at Qur’an Verse 10:108 "Say: 'O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! those who receive guidance, do so for the good of their own souls; those who stray, do so to their own loss: and I am not (set) over you to arrange your affairs.'" Whoever believes benefits his soul and whoever doesn't, harms it, and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is not in charge of people to arrange their affairs. Only Allah Almighty is. , Here we clearly see Allah Almighty giving a freedom of choice for people to choose or refuse Islam.

The Quran prohibits Muslims to force any person into Islam. Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah.

Let us look at Qur’an Verses 109:1-6 "Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine."

The Quran in all of the above Qur’an Verses is crystal clear about providing freedom of religion and choice to all people, Muslims and non-Muslims. In fact, freedom of religion is a fundamental tenet of Islam.
In Qur'an, 2:256, Allah explicitly states: "Let there be no compulsion in religion". It means that no one can be compelled to embrace Islam because religion depends upon faith and will, and this would be meaningless if induced by force. Islam itself means submission to the will of God; and the willing submission of the self to faith and belief must be attained through conviction and reason, not through coercion and duress.


[i]Historical reality of Muslims' persecution and self-defence
This advocacy of death sentence by the Muslim state on Renegades/ traitors/Spies (Enemies of the state) is proclaim in the condition of perpetual warfare/ persecution of the Muslim.
For instance. The leader of the renegades/traitors (ENEMIES OF THE STATE) a man named Musylama the liar, started out with the sole aim of become a Muslim, in other to, to fight the Muslims and end Islam. He gather a big amount of pagans and hypocrites to form an army, he led them to march to Mecca and Medina to fight the Muslims. The Muslims fought them several battles until he ultimately was killed and his army was soundly defeated. This is a classical case of self-defense in the face of persecution.
As we clearly see only apostates who are hostile toward the Muslims and joins the enemy in a war against them, or tries to corrupt the Muslims in the Muslim lands by trying to falsely distorting the faith to mislead others, then the matter becomes different. (ISLAM DOES NOT TOLERATE THIS, so therefore Muslims do not)

Conclusion:
1- It was the renegades/traitors (ENEMIES OF THE STATE) that declared the war on the Muslims. The Muslims did not start the war.
2- It is allowed to kill any person who deserts Islam. But those who like (Musylama the liar) join the faMuslimpy on it or create anarchy and to destroy the Muslims through war. Therefore this does not include for instance, those who might embrace Islam and then desert it later due to the overwhelming anti-Islamic media and lies or had a charge of decision. Then certainly killing such persons would be a grave sin and a big mistake.
3- As I proved in this article, Allah Almighty in the Quran talked about the apostates several times, and not a single command exists in the Quran that orders the killing of any of them.
4- The injuction of Prophet Muhammad, (PBUH), regarding killing the renegades/traitors (ENEMIES OF THE STATE) came when the Muslims were being persecuted with wars and enemies spies were infiltrating the Muslim state infiltratingctic to break their ranks or gain strategic security information in the face of in times of perpetual warfare. So the cases were different.

Islam began by inviting and persuading people to embrace it on the merit of its rationality and truth.
First, It does not further the interest of the faith to make liable the death punishment on one who converts to Islam. This is obviously not the intention of the hadith. this hadith to apply only to cases of high treason, which means declaring war against Islam, the Prophet, or God or the legitimate leadership of the ummah.

In an Islamic state no one is sentence to death solely for renunciation of the faith. Renunciation of faith is a matter between man and his Creator, and its punishment is postponed to the Day of Judgment. , BUT Treason is punish by the state

Will U shut up! How did u know something corrupt? Muhamed sat btw da cave after smoking marihuana, hallucinate and tell gullible people like u that he was sent by God and nobody was there to see him receive the quran 4rm angel, he (muhamodu) must be stupid to think that someone like me who blv is idiotic lie. Maybe ur allah's stupidity doesn't allow him to know that some people are going to know muhamodu is liar. I refused to be brainwash!

Realtol:

Will U shut up! How did u know something corrupt? Muhamed sat btw da cave after smoking marihuana, hallucinate and tell gullible people like u that he was sent by God and nobody was there to see him receive the quran 4rm angel, he (muhamodu) must be silly to think that someone like me who blv is idiotic lie. Maybe your allah's stupidity doesn't allow him to know that some people are going to know muhamodu is liar. I refused to be brainwash!

This is extremely UNGODLY &  adds nothing to our discourse. Let civility prevail.
Jesus said ‘Love your neighbour as yourself ,do unto others as you would like it to be done to you’.(Matt 22:39);a word as they say is enough for the wise.

AIRDIG:

@Jairzinho
I think the issue is better laid to rest. Let it me put it succsuccinctly As a person if you have chosen to disbelief the tenet of Islam as conveyed by The messenger of Allah (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) You have chosen to be a muslMuslimour argument on theology of what constitute Islam is not founded as the OP is not debating here but giving you fact (you either take it or leave it) that Allah stated in the Qur'an and Prophet muhammad convey in equivocally

I am sure  I have the right & not you my friend  to decide when I will put any discussion to rest or if I need further clarification . Stick to giving your opinion & stop speaking for others . . . Thank you.

olabowale:

Allah says in the Quran that "Sunnatillahi Tabtila. Sunnatillahi Tahwillah. In both cases what is expressed is that Allah's way is Unchanging. So when Allah says "Kataman Anbiyya"; seal of prophethood, then He will not renage on His statement. When Allah says that His Favor on mankind is made complete on Quran, all of these are saying that there is no changing, and there will never be any more Messenger, Prophet, Religion, Spiritual Book, or any Guidance from Him, after what is given to Muhammad (AS). "Inna tukliful mi'ad: Allah will never renage on His Promise".

 

[Qu’ran 3:6] He is the One who shapes you in the wombs as He wills. There is no other god besides Him; the Almighty, Most Wise.
[Qu’ran 3:20] If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.
[72:25] Say(O muhammad), "I do not know if what is promised to you will happen soon, or if my Lord will delay it for awhile."
[72:26] He is the Knower of the future; He does not reveal the future to anyone.
[72:27] Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future

So focus is on God , He can do as he pleases, you cannot contain or predict God ,my friend, so saying categorically that GOD ALMIGHTY CANNOT DO something is tantamount to disbelief !

olabowale:

Never a single time, from Allah in the Quran and or Muhammad (AS) from Hadith mentioned that the Gospel, or earlier Books be read by Muslims of Muhammad. All that was said is "belief" in them, which goes to that point in time that the Book(s) was/were with the Messenger, Prophet before corruptions entered it/them; the many writers who changed and entered what they wanted, including all the extra entries; Acts of Apostles, The Epistles, others on the Revelations and even the others that the Catholic/orthodox has/have and the Protestants don’t have them!

Haba,you are contradicting yourself. . . how will you believe  w/out first knowing what is in the gospels (Injil )
Qu’ran 2.121":    Those to whom We have given the Book read it as it ought to be read. These believe in it; and whoever disbelieves in it, these it is that are the losers.

[Qu’ran 3:3] He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel

Like I have stated before, you like to quote parts of the gospel that you feel suits your arguments e.g – Prophet Mohamed was the one being referred to as the Comforter by Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in John 14:16,however any area where Jesus is proclaim as the saviour you discountenance e.g John 14:6. So make up your mind,if you’re going to accept parts of the Bible ,accept in all or reject it in its entirety.

olabowale:

I know the majority of Jews dont believe in Jesus. Infact no one of the Jews I know believe in Jesus. No Jews in the governance of Israel believe in Jesus, he will not be allowed to sit in there.

Olabowale, I know you to be a good researcher, please google Messianic Jews, before making your flawed assumptions. This finality in making definitive statements is where I have my grouse,don’t be quick to doubt ,open your mind bro !

olabowale:

You are correct here. Especially its all acceptable in Christendom. 

So also with islam.

olabowale:

Burying is not cultural, but we know many Quranic verses (Surah Azhab, even Imran), ahadith that support immediate burial, and discourage any unnecessary delay. Mourning is limited and prolonging the burial will encourage prolonged mourning. Covering are expressed in Surah Azhab and Surah Muminu.

But is this a commandment from God? 
Islamic scholars have determined immediate burial was done(during the times of HPM) because of the heat in the desert & bodies rotting away ,it wasn’t a direction from God.  An Arab desert contingency has found its way into ‘pristine Islam’. Similarly women covering faces was primarily to prevent sand from getting into their faces- another cultural attribute linked with Islam.

So just as the sword verse & marrying 4 wives should be taken in CONTEXT, a lot of what could be termed ‘pristine Islam’ are being taken out of context.

Reading . . . .Intresting.

ifyalways:

Reading . . . .Intresting.

Welcome back ify , as you can see a bit has hapened since your AWOL , anyway read the earlier responses and ask as usual what you dont understand and we move on to your next questions. On the issue of sects and pristine islam i rather we do not dwell too much on it but if you have any questions on my comments on it as well please feel free to ask. I am from a background where we try to unify diverging views and come together on what we agree upon and leave out our differences that is why i do not dwell on the few sects in islam like i said you earlier on in the conversation.

Jairzinho:

[Qu’ran 3:6] He is the One who shapes you in the wombs as He wills. There is no other god besides Him; the Almighty, Most Wise.
[Qu’ran 3:20] If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.
[72:25] Say(O muhammad), "I do not know if what is promised to you will happen soon, or if my Lord will delay it for awhile."
[72:26] He is the Knower of the future; He does not reveal the future to anyone.
[72:27] Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future

So focus is on God , He can do as he pleases, you cannot contain or predict God ,my friend, so saying categorically that GOD ALMIGHTY CANNOT DO something is tantamount to disbelief !

My main man I know you are one of the very few that tries to understand the other faith and do some research thumbs up. However, there is a limit to the understanding of the information at your disposal without having a bit of some formal study in the basics and foundations of the faith like the concept of Tawheed (Unity of God).

The verses you quoted from Q72 are verses some other faiths like Usiskys submission faith try to quote to postulate the theory of another messenger besides the Prophet PBUH. You see the quran is a whole book and when we make rulings or interprete verses we do so wholly as well in context of not just the surrounding verses but in context of the whole quran. The quran explicitly calls the Prophet PBUH the last and final one to mankind and the verses of Q72 referred to Allahs messengers in general before Muhammad PBUH and including Muhammed PBUH, it doesnt refer to a messenger after in the least. This is the very core of islam like i said , this is the belief of 99% of people who call themselves muslims, this is the belief of early muslims from that time till now. In the time of the prophet there was an impostor called Musaylimo who claimed to be a messenger as well but he was defeated intellectualy, his wife even confessed she knew he was a liar and acceped islam. This issue you have to understand it from the basics of islam.

Theother issue of Olabowale saying God will not do something, he did not mean it in the sense of what you think and if anyone means in that sense you are right it is actual disbelief. What Olabs meant and he said it was "the sunnah of Allah does not change" it is a verse of the quran and it means the tradition of God will not change. God can make the heavens come down now and the earth go up , it is within is power for he is able to do all things but he will not do it until his appointed term because it is not his tradition to break his promise. It is the same way he promised or stated Muhammed PBUH being the final prophet and he will not change his tradition because he never breaks his promise. " Wa lam sunnati Allah tabdila" that is the verse - The tradition of Allah does not change. The verse was repeated in at least 5 places in te quran if not more i think.

But is this a commandment from God?
Islamic scholars have determined immediate burial was done(during the times of HPM) because of the heat in the desert & bodies rotting away ,it wasn’t a direction from God. An Arab desert contingency has found its way into ‘pristine Islam’. Similarly women covering faces was primarily to prevent sand from getting into their faces- another cultural attribute linked with Islam.

Buddie , again we have to go back to the basics in islamic jurispudenc we have 5 rulings like i have said here before - Complusory, recommended,forbidden, frowned upon, neutral.

The issue of burying early the dead is a reccommendation of the Prophet PBUH , not because of rotten bodies but because of the concept of life after death in islam. Once the sould departs from the dead, it is returned to him in his grave for a brief questionining and then departs again to the barzakh if a believer. (it is a very wide subject , i do not want confuse anyone here) The point is it benefits the believer to be lowered in the grave earlier. However it is not a compulsory act and burial could be delayed for valid resons and could be sinful if you deliberately refuse to bury the dead. The prophet PBUH himself was not buried until afte thre dys for valid reasons.

Women covering their faces is not due to sand but a commandment in the quran directly to the wives of the Prophet PBUH in Q33 v53 ". . . .And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts . . ."
This was one of the direct commandement to the prophets wives, and the arabs never used to wear the hijab fully covered before that but could cover the noses from dust and stuff. It is a wrong notion to think it is a cultutral thing and nothing to do with islam. However covering the face is not compulsory on muslim women but if a woman wants to do it emulating the wives of the prophet PBUH she has a reward and no one should stop her , it is her free will but never to be forced upon anyone.

So just as the sword verse & marrying 4 wives should be taken in CONTEXT, a lot of what could be termed ‘pristine Islam’ are being taken out of context.

I thought we concluded Jarus pristine islam wasnt referring to all these but in Nigerias context. Oya enough of pristine islam as theres is no single definition for this like i said and when used it is in context of the society.

Lets move on, oh I remember u asked about islam position on animal rights and global warming, now you are asking wonderful contemporary questions which i love, i will answer once i get back insha Allah.

You're right lets move on. . . tho' I for tackle you on your post. . . but lets not go round in circles.

Islams view on global warming & animal rights

@ Lagos boy: May Allah increase you in wisdom, knowledge and understanding of the deen and above all faith in him

@all: for the first time in along while, an intellectual discussion/education is going on.It may appeal to ur intellectual capabilites and may not but there is certainly no cause to insult/lampoon/condemn each others' faith. i hope we see a new attitude this year

@LB,went for a Jumai prayers yesterday
what are harem,can u give me a full list?
Are Imans paid?Is there purgatory or just heaven and hell?
can u explain these verses of the koran for me,it seems contradictory
4 ;78,79.
who is the first muslim ever,Muhammed [6:14, 163] Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?
waiting.

@Jairzinho: #132 on: January 12, 2010, 07:39 AM »

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
Allah says in the Quran that "Sunnatillahi Tabtila. Sunnatillahi Tahwillah. In both cases what is expressed is that Allah's way is Unchanging. So when Allah says "Kataman Anbiyya"; seal of prophethood, then He will not renage on His statement. When Allah says that His Favor on mankind is made complete on Quran, all of these are saying that there is no changing, and there will never be any more Messenger, Prophet, Religion, Spiritual Book, or any Guidance from Him, after what is given to Muhammad (AS). "Inna tukliful mi'ad: Allah will never renage on His Promise".

[Qu’ran 3:6] He is the One who shapes you in the wombs as He wills. There is no other god besides Him; the Almighty, Most Wise.
[Qu’ran 3:20] If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.
[72:25] Say(O muhammad), "I do not know if what is promised to you will happen soon, or if my Lord will delay it for awhile."
[72:26] He is the Knower of the future; He does not reveal the future to anyone.
[72:27] Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future

So focus is on God , He can do as he pleases, you cannot contain or predict God ,my friend, so saying categorically that GOD ALMIGHTY CANNOT DO something is tantamount to disbelief !

I did not say that God Almighty Allah cant do something, except that I say that He will not do what is not fitting to His Majesty. Eg becoming a person, eating, sleeping, crying, begging, praying, etc just like you and I and Jesus! To support my argument, Allah Himself said in Surah Maryam, verses 81 to 95 talk about the Uniqueness of God as not being a Partner with any 'god" be it in heavens, inbetween it and the earth or the earth, and clearly indicates that He does not have a son, or has ever at anytime come down on earth, as the christian for starter claims by his Trinitarian Logic, etc;

19:81 And they have taken besides Allah [false] deities that they would be for them [a source of] honor.
19:82 No! Those "gods" will deny their worship of them and will be against them opponents [on the Day of Judgement].
19:83 Do you not see that We have sent the devils upon the disbelievers, inciting them to [evil] with [constant] incitement?
19:84 So be not impatient over them. We only count out to them a [limited] number.
19:85 On the Day We will gather the righteous to the Most Merciful as a delegation
19:86 And will drive the criminals to Hell in thirst
19:87 None will have [power of] intercession except he who had taken from the Most Merciful a covenant.
19:88 And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son."
19:89 You have done an atrocious thing.
19:90 The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth splits open and the mountains collapse in devastation
19:91 That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.
19:92 And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.
19:93 There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant.
19:94 He has enumerated them and counted them a [full] counting.
19:95 And all of them are coming to Him on the Day of Resurrection alone.

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
Never a single time, from Allah in the Quran and or Muhammad (AS) from Hadith mentioned that the Gospel, or earlier Books be read by Muslims of Muhammad. All that was said is "belief" in them, which goes to that point in time that the Book(s) was/were with the Messenger, Prophet before corruptions entered it/them; the many writers who changed and entered what they wanted, including all the extra entries; Acts of Apostles, The Epistles, others on the Revelations and even the others that the Catholic/orthodox has/have and the Protestants don’t have them!

Haba,you are contradicting yourself. . . how will you believe w/out first knowing what is in the gospels (Injil )

I have not contradicted myself, since I believe in the Unseed; God, all that are in the heavens including angels; Jibril, Mikail (AS) for example!

Qu’ran 2.121": Those to whom We have given the Book read it as it ought to be read. These believe in it; and whoever disbelieves in it, these it is that are the losers.

There is no proof that the Books given to Musa (Torah), Daud (Sabur) and Isa bin Maryam (Injil) are still in the pure state that they were revealed to the Messengers and or Prophets mentioned above, but quite the opposite since Allah says that they have written their own desires into it (the Book; now the Torah and Mishnash, etc of the Jews and/or the Bible of the Christians) saying this new product is from Allah, selling the Statement of Allah for a misely price! We must not forget to consider the fact that even in the Injil of today, we see the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles and the Revelations and indeed the "what Paul said of his own personal opinions" show corruptions in full force!
2.59; But those who were unjust changed it for a saying other than that which had been spoken to them, so We sent upon those who were unjust a pestilence from heaven, because they transgressed
2.79: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby
2:140; Nay! do you say that Ibrahim and Ismail and Yaqoub and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Are you better knowing or Allah? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah? And Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.
3:77-79 (As for) those who take a small price for the covenant of Allah and their own oaths-- surely they shall have no portion in the hereafter, and Allah will not speak to them, nor will He look upon them on the day of resurrection nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement. Most surely there is a party amongst those who distort the Book with their tongue that you may consider it to be (a part) of the Book, and they say, It is from Allah, while it is not from Allah, and they tell a lie against Allah whilst they know. It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be worshipers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves).
3:187 And when Allah made a covenant with those who were given the Book: You shall certainly make it known to men and you shall not hide it; but they cast it behind their backs and took a small price for it; so evil is that which they buy.

[Qu’ran 3:3] He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel

First the Torah and or the Injil being referred are the Once upon a time when the Torah was in the hands of Prophet Musa (AS) who received it. But what happened when he died, and sometimes before Jesus came, it was part truth part personal desire. When we look at what was revealed to Isa bin Maryam, we do see that Act and Books of revelations and Epistles were not revealed to him, and Allah did not revealed anything to "Paul who used to be Saul"! This is enough to proof that what you have now is different from what was revealed in their prestined state, once upon a time!

Like I have stated before, you like to quote parts of the gospel that you feel suits your arguments e.g – Prophet Mohamed was the one being referred to as the Comforter by Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in John 14:16,however any area where Jesus is proclaim as the saviour you discountenance e.g John 14:6. So make up your mind,if you’re going to accept parts of the Bible ,accept in all or reject it in its entirety.

What I quote are what Quran confirms! I think that you know that you could mask lies with some lies, forcing the gullible with the "all or nothing stuff"! That will not work with us in Islam!

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
I know the majority of Jews dont believe in Jesus. Infact no one of the Jews I know believe in Jesus. No Jews in the governance of Israel believe in Jesus, he will not be allowed to sit in there.

Olabowale, I know you to be a good researcher, please google Messianic Jews, before making your flawed assumptions. This finality in making definitive statements is where I have my grouse,don’t be quick to doubt ,open your mind bro !

My mind is opened. I have lived with orthodox jews before. I have an Israeli Jew as friend, go out to dinner with him. Many of my corporate attorneys including the in-house are Jews. I lived with a Jew who practiced Buhhdism before. Are the Buhhdist Jews the typical Jews in their religious inclinations? Of course not! Less than two weeks ago, CNN was showing a heart Surgeon in Jaffa sewing up stuffed up pig for oven roasting. Then you see the elites, the socialites of Israel in the dining of that horrible meal! Will these people be the expected Jews? This is similar to the Messianic Jews, and am comfortable in saying that this was not the reason that Yahweh/Jehovah (no trinity under Moses, am sure) liberated them from the bondage of Egyptian slavery!

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM

You are correct here. Especially its all acceptable in Christendom.

So also with islam.

?

Quote from: olabowale on January 12, 2010, 01:04 AM
Burying is not cultural, but we know many Quranic verses (Surah Azhab, even Imran), ahadith that support immediate burial, and discourage any unnecessary delay. Mourning is limited and prolonging the burial will encourage prolonged mourning. Covering are expressed in Surah Azhab and Surah Muminu.

But is this a commandment from God?

If there was anyone worthy of being kept as long as possible for burial after death it would have been Muhammad (AS). Allah says obey Allah and obey Rasul. Allah says if you love Me follow Muhammad. Allah says take whatever Muhammad gives you and reject what ever he forbids. Allah says you have a perfect example in this Messenger. If Muhammad demanded and stated that a body is buried as quickly as possible; if he is a true believer he wishes to get to his position, but if he is a disbeliever, an evil soul you will rid evil soul off your neck! There is no place except in special circumsances where foul play is suspected demanding investigation to the truth, as in the case of the dead soul in Surah Baqarah, one of the reasons for the name of that verse as such, that burial of dead body should be delayed.

[/quote]Islamic scholars have determined immediate burial was done(during the times of HPM) because of the heat in the desert & bodies rotting away ,it wasn’t a direction from God. An Arab desert contingency has found its way into ‘pristine Islam’. Similarly women covering faces was primarily to prevent sand from getting into their faces- another cultural attribute linked with Islam.[quote]

Your assetion in both case is opposite what Quran said! What a scholar says, if it is different from what Muhammad said, guess what, even if the scholar come to know what Muhammd said, he must accept it over his own statement for Muhammad is the Prophet, and the scholar is not! I will not follow a person who is not following Muhammad (AS)! The culture of Islam is completely differnt from the culture of the arabs. You hear it from me and you can take it to the bank like the local dinar or dihram. You need to read Surah Muminu and Ahzah where the issue of Hijab is mentioned before you make such an untrue statement!

So just as the sword verse & marrying 4 wives should be taken in CONTEXT, a lot of what could be termed ‘pristine Islam’ are being taken out of context.

Look InshaAllah, whoever marries 4 wives, I support him, since we see even now lesbianizm has crept into my beloved Nigeria. I know about america, already and its not always because the woman is born gay, but scarcity of male suitors is not an uncommon factor. You know it, and I know it, too!

ifyalways:

@LB,went for a Jumai prayers yesterday
Are Imans paid?Is there purgatory or just heaven and hell?

Hey, I am extremely elated  you had a chance to go for jumah prayers yesterday  How was it and how did you find it? What was the sermon about and i hope it was in english or a language you understood. The sermon at the jumah service i went to was about spreading of rumour without verification, very common amongst us today and we dont see it as a big issue  . Anyway what was the sermon about? I remember earlier on last year when i suggested you attend one, how time flies 

what are harem,can u give me a full list?

I want to believe you meant haram , haram are forbidden things in islam and if you remember the 5 rulings i have listed here couple of times it is one of them. haram are things that are unlawful in islam and if one engages in them then one commits sins that can only be forgiven by God and sometimes by fellow men as well.

Erm. . . . list of haram things  . . . . that cannot write it all here as i can never finish it because islamic is a dynamic religion that moves with time however there are some basic haram things everyone should know. I would try to list some things here but i dont want to scare you with a whole long list as some people believe we have too many rules in islam but i say to them we have too many guidance in islam from how we eat to how we use the toilet and deal with relativs and friends.

Ify in islam we major sins and minor sins, the major sins being things that have been expressly forbidden by God in the Quran and the Prophet PBUH in the hadiths. Allah says in the qur'an:
" If you avoid the major (part) of what you have been forbidden (to do), We will cancel out for you your (other) evil deeds and will admit you (to Paradise) with a noble entry. (Q4:31)
"Those who avoid the greatest of sins and indecencies, and forgive when they are angry" (Q42:37)
"Those who avoid the greatest sins and indecencies, except for oversights, (will find that) surely your Lord is ample in forgiveness"( Q53:32)

We have 7 great sins of the major sins:
Associating partners with God in whatever form is not only haram but it also negates ones belief in islam
Slandering a chaste woman about fornication or adultery
Killing a human for no just reason (i.e punishment for murder)
Practising majic (sorcery, black majic, vodoo and the likes)
Turning back on the muslim army in the face of the enemy
Practising usury- Interest
consuming the wealth of an orphan illegally.

However the major sins are not limited to this and are actually considered to be around 70 by the scholars of islam from the statement of Ibn Abbas RA the prophets PBUH cousin. They are listed below:

01. Associating partners with Allah
02. Murder
03. Practising magic
04. Stop Praying
05. non payment of Zakah
06. Not fasting on a Day of Ramadan without excuse
07. Not performing Hajj, while being able to do so
08. Disrespect to parents
09. Abandoning relatives
10. Fornication and Adultery
11. Homosexuality(sodomy)
12. Interest(Riba) - usury
13. Illegal consumption of the property of an orphan
14. Lying about Allah and His Messenger
15. Running away from the battlefield
16. A leader's deceiving his people and being unjust to them
17. Pride and arrogance
18. Bearing false witness
19. Drinking Alcohol
20. Gambling
21. Slandering chaste women
22. Stealing from the war booty
23. Stealing
24. Highway Robbery
25. Taking false oath
26. Oppression
27. illegal profit in trade
28. Consuming wealth acquired unlawfully
29. Committing suicide
30. Frequent lying
31. Judging unjustly
32. Giving and Accepting bribes
33. Woman's imitating man and man's imitating woman
34. Being cuckold
35. Marrying a divorced woman in order to make her lawful for the husband
36. Not protecting oneself from urine
37. Showing-off
38. Learning knowledge of the religion for the sake of this world and concealing that knowledge
39. Bertrayal of trust
40. Recounting favours
41. Denying Allah's Decree
42. Listening (to) people's private conversations
43. spreading false tales
44. Cursing
45. Breaking contracts
46. Believing in fortune-tellers and astrologers
47. A woman's bad conduct towards her husband
48. Making statues of humans
49. Lamenting, wailing, tearing the clothing, and doing other things of this sort when an affliction befalls
50. Treating others unjustly
51. Overbearing conduct toward the wife, the servant, the weak, and animals
52. Offending one's neighbour
53. Offending and abusing Muslims
54. Offending people and having an arrogant attitude toward them
55. Trailing one's garment in pride
56. Men's wearing silk and gold
57. A slave's running away from his master
58. Slaughtering an animal which has been dedicated to anyone other than Allah
59. To knowingly ascribe one's paternity to a father other than one's own
60. Arguing and disputing violently
61. Witholding excess water
62. Giving short weight or measure (Cheating)
63. Feeling secure from Allah's Plan (i.e feeling self sufficient from God)
64. Offending Allah's righteous friends
65. Not praying in congregation but praying alone without an excuse(Men)
66. Persistently missing Friday Prayers without any excuse
67. Unsurping the rights of the heir through bequests
68. Deceiving and plotting evil
69. Spying for the enemy of the Muslims
70. Cursing or insulting any of the Companiions of Allah's Messenger

Ify dont get put off by the long list as if you read them through you will realise they are all unlawful things even to a persons common sense and conscience. They are in fact guidance to move a servant closer to his master which is God, they guidance and step to move one upwards in the ladder of spirituality and they are indeed a path that leads to eternal bliss and success in the hereafter.

As human beings one is not free from all these unlawful things and muslims fall into them one time or another but Allah is in fact the oft forgiving and he promises forgivness ones a servant is genuingly sorry for his actions.

" And those who, when they have committed Fahishah (illegal sexual intercourse etc.) or wronged themselves with evil, remember Allâh and ask forgiveness for their sins; - and none can forgive sins but Allâh - And do not persist in what (wrong) they have done, while they know. For such, the reward is Forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath (Paradise), wherein they shall abide forever. How excellent is this reward for the doers (who do righteous deeds according to Allâh's Orders)" Q3v 135

One just has to strive to follow the wishes of Allah if you truly love Allah, the best of believers are those who avoid sins or haraam due to their love for God.

And God knows best

ifyalways:

@LB,went for a Jumai prayers yesterday
what are harem,can u give me a full list?
Are Imans paid?Is there purgatory or just heaven and hell?

Ify, imams are paid wages and in fact in the western and .some arab countries imams are paid well with a good package. Some mosques pay imams in the Uk about 400GBP a week and some big mosques provide accomodation for the imams as well. However in african countries like Nigeria it is not all imams that are paid and the economic situation and poverty rate has to be put into consideration. In arab countries the govt pays the registered imams but it is not so in Nigeria in the least. Again someone in Nigeria could please shed more light on Imams in Nigeria. Jarus ,Iwaboy over to you.

Purgatory exists in islam and it starts in the grave (for some it starts in this world before death), there is punishment in the grave before the day of judgement for the evil doers, there is punishement on the day of judgement before the actual judgement begins as humans will be in extreme heat waiting for the Lord of the World to begin judgement, finally there paradise and hell. Muslims prefer to call "heaven" paradise as heavens refers to the firmirments in the sky and we have seven heavens. It is high in the heavens we have paradise and hell fire, this is a wide subject and i have just summarised it in the most simple words i can. If you want more details then insha Allah i will go further.

just  coming across this thread for the first time and by Allah it touch my very soul.  i have never seen a more faithful thread. If not for the unfortunate interjection by Realtol everyone was polite.
Lagosboy, you have no idea how many folds my respect for you has grown. May Allah reward u abudantly. I realy want to be like you
Ify thanks for opening this thread and giving us an oppurtunity to learn in peace. I wish you all the best.

ifyalways:

can u explain these verses of the koran for me,it seems contradictory
4 ;78,79.
who is the first muslim ever,Muhammed [6:14, 163] Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?
waiting.

Ify  , this is an age old allegation of contradiction in the quran by some ignorant folks who have failed to spend 10 mins understanding the context of the quran.

The summary of those verses is simple , each of the prophets mentioned were the first believers amongs their people at the time and Adam was the first believer ever. No where in the qur'an does it say Abraham, Moses or Muhammad PBUT all were the first believers EVER. Before i analyse the verse one by one , I would like you to note like i have said earlier in the thread that the message of all prophets of God is the same and it is to call the people to the worship of Allah without any partners which makes them all believers and submitters to Allah , muslim. We do not make distinction among any of them and Allah says in the quran :

The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allâh, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)."

Now lets us start with Moses in Q7v 143
And when Mûsa (Moses) came at the time and place appointed by Us, and his Lord spoke to him, he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allâh said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me." So when his Lord appeared to the mountain[], He made it collapse to dust, and Mûsa (Moses) fell down unconscious. Then when he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to You, I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers"

Here Moses was simply sayin ghe his the first of the children of israel to be believers, It can never mean he his the first ever believer as they verse never used the word "ever". The quran talked about Joseph PBUH who was a believer and the first of the children of Israel to be in Egypt so how could it be Moses be the first ever. The word used was "awalu mumineen" which brings me to the next verse you mentioned and this is actual a point to prove my arguement and not aginst it.
Q26 v 49-51
49 [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: "You have believed in him before I give you leave. Surely, he indeed is your chief, who has taught you magic! So verily, you shall come to know. Verily, I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will crucify you all."

50. They said: "No harm! Surely, to our Lord (Allâh) we are to return;
51  "Verily! We really hope that our Lord will forgive us our sins, as we are the first of the believers [in Mûsa (Moses) and in the Monotheism which he has brought from Allâh]."

This is another chapter talking about events of Moses PBUH and the majicians of Pharaoh who believed in the message of Moses PBUH when their sticks were swallowed by the snake of Moses PBUH. The word used here was same "awallu mumineen" which means they were the first to believe among the people of Pharaoh and does not mean the first ever believers.

The same explanation goes for Q2 v 127 - 133  on Abraham PBUH

127. And (remember) when Ibrâhim (Abraham) and (his son) Ismâ'il (Ishmael) were raising the foundations of the House (the Ka'bah at Makkah), (saying), "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily! You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower." []

128. "Our Lord! And make us submissive unto You and of our offspring a nation submissive unto You, and show us our Manâsik [] (all the ceremonies of pilgrimage - Hajj and 'Umrah, etc.), and accept our repentance. Truly, You are the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.

129. "Our Lord! Send amongst them a Messenger of their own (and indeed Allâh answered their invocation by sending Muhammad Peace be upon him ), who shall recite unto them Your Verses and instruct them in the Book (this Qur'ân) and Al-Hikmah (full knowledge of the Islâmic laws and jurisprudence or wisdom or Prophethood, etc.), and sanctify them. Verily! You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."

130. And who turns away from the religion of Ibrâhim (Abraham) (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism) except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous.

131. When his Lord said to him, "Submit (i.e. be a Muslim)!" He said, "I have submitted myself (as a Muslim) to the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists)."

132. And this (submission to Allâh, Islâm) was enjoined by Ibrâhim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya'qûb (Jacob), (saying), "O my sons! Allâh has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islâm (as Muslims - Islâmic Monotheism)."

133. Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya'qûb (Jacob)? When he said unto his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your Ilâh [] (God - Allâh), the Ilâh (God) of your fathers, Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), One Ilâh (God), and to Him we submit (in Islâm)."

It is clear from the context that the verse does not mention anything about Abraham or his sons being the first believers ever, in fact no where does it mention anything as FIRST only that they submited in islam.

The same explantion then goes for Prophet Muhammad PBUH in Q6 v 14 and 163:

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall I take as a Walî (helper, protector, etc.) any other than Allâh, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? And it is He Who feeds but is not fed." Say: "Verily, I am commanded to be the first of those who submit themselves to Allâh (as Muslims)." And be not you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Mushrikûn [polytheists, pagans, idolaters and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh].

This verse is actually a command to the holy Prophet PBUH to say to the pagans that he is the first of the people of Makkah in that time and particularly the quraish tribe his tribe to be muslims. It does not mean the Prophet PBUH was the first muslim ever in the least.

I hope the explanation is very clear and there is no contradiction here and in fact there is no contradiction in the qur'an at all, whatever some people call contradiction is either deliberate intellectuall unobjectivity or simple plain ignorance and intellectual laziness to study the explantions to it.

I conclude by the stating the verse of the qur'an in Q4 v 82

Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein much contradictions

And indeed God knows best.

the_seeker:

just coming across this thread for the first time and by Allah it touch my very soul. i have never seen a more faithful thread. If not for the unfortunate interjection by Realtol everyone was polite.
Lagosboy, you have no idea how many folds my respect for you has grown. May Allah reward u abudantly. I realy want to be like you
Ify thanks for opening this thread and give us an oppurtunity to learn in peace. I wish you all the best.

Sincerity is the catalyst for Barakah (Blessings) in anything we do, I sensed Ify's sincerity from the very begining and i suspect that is why Allah enabled the thread to progress. Ify is indeed sincere in her quest for knowledge and understanding May God in his infinte mercies guide her heart and illuminate it with his unblemished Light.

May Allah accept this humble effort from this humble slave of Allah and other contributors as well, and may he make the thread a source of knowledge and guidance to whoever reads it as well, above all may he countinue to put his barakah in all our efforts and the thread as well, may Allah reward you the seeker for your comments. Ameen

@ Jarzinho

On the issue of global warming and environment in islam.

Firstly Allah says in the qur'an, Q40v 57. "The creation of the heavens and the earth is indeed greater than the creation of mankind, yet most of mankind know not."

The creation of the heavens and earth is a sign of Gods greatness and Allah has made the earth conducive for us to live in as he said in the qur'an Q2 v21

"O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allâh), Who created you and those who were before you so that you may become Al-Muttaqûn 
Who has made the earth a resting place for you, and the sky as a canopy, and sent down water (rain) from the sky and brought forth therewith fruits as a provision for you"

From the verses above we realise that the favours and mercies of God on us in this world are abundant and it is actually a trust for us which we have to treat wih care. From the understanding of this concept we relise the environment we live in was modified by Allah for us to be able to survive in it,  astronomy has confirmed the verse of the quran in this regards as we know other planets are not suitable to live in for humans and that is why Allah said in that verse specifically "made the earth resting place" which means inhabitable. It will be interesting to note here in arabic the word used was "ja'ala" which means to modify,to transform . The understanding of this word in arabic makes us realise why Allah did not use "khalaq" which means create and the verse was not "created the earth as a resting place". The earth was created like other planets but was then made inhabitable for Man.

In islam anything we are entrusted with we have to care about and take good care of it, the environment is a trust on us and as mslims we have to take good care of it in whatever way we can. From reducing green house gases, to cutting of trees to various things. The prophet of islam PBUH prohibited the cutting of trees during wars or cutting of trees indiscrimatory, now this was an environmental legislation 1429 years ago before any Kyoto protocol which butresses the completenes of Islam as a complete way of life or system. The Prophet PBUH further said in another Hadith :
"The earth has been created for me as a mosque and a means of purification" Bukhari 1 : 331

This means the earth is a sacred place and should be treated with sanctity and respect. The heavens nd earth are creatures of Allah as well and deserve respect because the heavens and earth glorify Allah so how would we humans not treat them with regard a 44nd care as they have been entrusted to us. The quran confirms this in Q17 v 44
"The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein, glorify Him and there is not a thing but glorifies His Praise. But you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving

Additionally, we have been given lots of resources from nature by Allah and he stressed it in the qur'an like the verses below: Q56

63. Tell Me! The seed that you sow in the ground.

64. Is it you that make it grow, or are We the Grower?

65. Were it Our Will, We could crumble it to dry pieces, and you would be regretful (or left in wonderment).

66. (Saying): "We are indeed Mughramûn (i.e. ruined or lost the money without any profit, or punished by the loss of all that we spend for cultivation, etc.)! [See Tafsir Al-Qurtubî, Vol. 17, Page 219]

67. "Nay, but we are deprived!"

68. Tell Me! The water that you drink.

69. Is it you who cause it from the rainclouds to come down, or are We the Causer of it to come down?

70. If We willed, We verily could make it salt (and undrinkable), why then do you not give thanks (to Allâh)?

71. Tell Me! The fire which you kindle,

72. Is it you who made the tree thereof to grow, or are We the Grower?

73. We have made it a Reminder (for the Hell-fire, in the Hereafter); and an article of use for the travellers (and all the others, in this world).

74. Then glorify with praises the Name of your Lord, the Most Great.

Allah has prefferred human beings to other creaturs and he made nature and animal subservient to us not because of our physical strength but by granting us high intelligence and intellect. We have to use our intellect to protect our environment not harm it.

And God knows best

LB,thanks a million though its a long list.Wud take my time to go through it and ask questions if necessary.
Yes,My Jumai went well

Ify, imams are paid wages and in fact in the western and .some arab countries imams are paid well with a good package. Some mosques pay imams in the Uk about 400GBP a week and some big mosques provide accomodation for the imams as well. However in african countries like Nigeria it is not all imams that are paid and the economic situation and poverty rate has to be put into consideration. In arab countries the govt pays the registered imams but it is not so in Nigeria in the least. Again someone in Nigeria could please shed more light on Imams in Nigeria. Jarus ,Iwaboy over to you.

There are generally two categories of mosques in most Nigerian communities; those built by community or people living in an area and those built by some men/families in their houses. Personally, we have a Mosque in our Kwara country home and our Imam get paid salaries. In most 'private' mosques, I guess the Imams are paid. For community-built Mosques, unfortunately I don't know whether Imams are paid. The faintest idea is that part of proceeds of donations in Mosque programs are allocated to Imams running that mosque but I'm not sure whether there is a structured salary system. Allah knows best

@Jarus,thanks for clarifying.
LB,i was expecting to see "shaving of hair by women and eating pork" 
Please,do explain the ffg  for me ;
15. Running away from the battlefield .
33. Woman's imitating man and man's imitating woman .(dressing or what?)
58. Slaughtering an animal which has been dedicated to anyone other than Allah .
49. Lamenting, wailing, tearing the clothing, and doing other things of this sort when an affliction befalls (cant we mourn,we are humane afterall?)
57. A slave's running away from his master (thought we agreed on Islam discouraging the concept of slavery?)
brb

Jarus:

There are generally two categories of mosques in most Nigerian communities; those built by community or people living in an area and those built by some men/families in their houses. Personally, we have a Mosque in our Kwara country home and our Imam get paid salaries. In most 'private' mosques, I guess the Imams are paid. For community-built Mosques, unfortunately I don't know whether Imams are paid. The faintest idea is that part of proceeds of donations in Mosque programs are allocated to Imams running that mosque but I'm not sure whether there is a structured salary system. Allah knows best

Salam,

Actually Imams are not paid in virtually every community owned mosques, at least in my part of the country, i.e. Kano. Most of those Imams are what is called settled Qur'anic teachers (you know there are those who go from one area/place to another searching for posture area just like cattle-rearers) and majority of them are farmers, thus they farm with their students (or almajirai, plural of almajiji) what they would be eating through-out the year. Again, they gain other earnings from "gifts", "alms", etc given to them by some wealthy people in that community. But nobody actually paid them.

Although in some instances, government sends them other gifts like bags of rice, corns, sugar, etc. But that barely happen.

To the noble Islamic scholars in the house (olabowale,Lagosboy,Jarus):

Could you help me reconcile these 2 verses from the Holy Koran;

Sura 9: 29

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

& Sura 2:256

2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

So what is the subsisting agreement. .  .is religion by force or not according to your learned interpretation of the words of Allah as revealed to his servant- The Holy Prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him)

Greetings, illusion2

Muhsin is actually not an Islamic scholar but a student. Please don't refer to me as one again. Thanks.

As I stated above: am not anything like Islamic scholar, thus I'm gonna answer your question according to Dr. Jamal Badawi, who's [i]the [/i]noble Islamic scholar.

He was asked this question: How should we deal with verse 9:5, which seems to be in conflict with verse 2:256 "la ikraha fi deen", i.e. there shall be no compulsion in religion?

Answer:

This ayah has been frequently quoted out of its textual and historical context.

1. The ayah has nothing to do with compulsion in religion.

2. It deals with mushrikeen which means idolatrous people who have nothing with Jews and Christians (see 98:1) which means a clear distinction between mushrikeen and People of the Book.

3. The ayah does not even include all idolatrous people nor idolatrous Arabs at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) since it excludes those idolatrous Arabs who did not engage in murder and hostilities against Muslims. See for example verse 4 in Chapter 9.

4. The reason for fighting those idolatrous Arabs is not because they rejected Islam but because they broke the treaty of Hudaybiya and murdered innocent people. In fact the reason for fighting is given in verse 10 and 13, which shows that fighting them was because of their aggression and not because of their rejection of Islam. As far as the ending of verse 5, "that if they repent, establish prayer and paid the poor-due, then leave them alone", this does not mean that they must accept Islam to be left alone but it seems to indicate that since their aggression was promoted in the first place by hateful and irrational aggressive hate of the message of Islam that if they willingly accept Islam then the reason for their aggression will be voided not that it is a condition or stopping the war against them. Resorting to war and battlefield in Islam is only allowed to repel aggression or severe oppression. That simply gives another option for them, either to stop aggression and remain idolatrous or to willingly accept Islam and become brethren in faith.

There is absolutely no contradiction between the two verses you mentioned.

And Allah knows the best.

muhsin:

Greetings, illusion2
Muhsin is actually not an Islamic scholar but a student. Please don't refer to me as one again. Thanks.
As I stated above: am not anything like Islamic scholar, thus I'm gonna answer your question according to Dr. Jamal Badawi, who's [i]the [/i]noble Islamic scholar.

Greetings muhsin,you needn't bother yourself with semantics my friend,rather focus on the issues. A scholar is a student & all students are scholars. But if it bothers you ,I will remove your name from my prev post. Cheers,

muhsin:

He was asked this question: How should we deal with verse 9:5, which seems to be in conflict with verse 2:256 "la ikraha fi deen", i.e. there shall be no compulsion in religion?

Answer:

This ayah has been frequently quoted out of its textual and historical context.

1. The ayah has nothing to do with compulsion in religion.

2. It deals with mushrikeen which means idolatrous people who have nothing with Jews and Christians (see 98:1) which means a clear distinction between mushrikeen and People of the Book.

3. The ayah does not even include all idolatrous people nor idolatrous Arabs at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) since it excludes those idolatrous Arabs who did not engage in murder and hostilities against Muslims. See for example verse 4 in Chapter 9.

4. The reason for fighting those idolatrous Arabs is not because they rejected Islam but because they broke the treaty of Hudaybiya and murdered innocent people. In fact the reason for fighting is given in verse 10 and 13, which shows that fighting them was because of their aggression and not because of their rejection of Islam. As far as the ending of verse 5, "that if they repent, establish prayer and paid the poor-due, then leave them alone", this does not mean that they must accept Islam to be left alone but it seems to indicate that since their aggression was promoted in the first place by hateful and irrational aggressive hate of the message of Islam that if they willingly accept Islam then the reason for their aggression will be voided not that it is a condition or stopping the war against them. Resorting to war and battlefield in Islam is only allowed to repel aggression or severe oppression. That simply gives another option for them, either to stop aggression and remain idolatrous or to willingly accept Islam and become brethren in faith.

There is absolutely no contradiction between the two verses you mentioned.

And Allah knows the best.

Thanks for this,but I disagree that there's no contradiction.

1. It clearly refers to people of the book,but even if it doesn't does that mean the idolatrous people can be forced? Also many muslims regard christians as idolator because they believ in the Trinity,wear the cross etc. So can't this definition be extended to christians?
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2. if we are to take all scriptures in context & history,shouldn't the issue of number of wives,eating of pigs,alcohol,smoking be also taken in their proper historical context?
We should either take EVERYTHING in context or take NONE. Picking what to take in historical context ,I feel may not be the wishes of Allah & his prophet. Correct me if Im wrong.

As per the Surah 9:29 above,don't you think if for example (God forbid !) Nigeria becomes an islamic country,genuine muslim leaders or someone from the 'Islamic Shura council',could pick up this 9:29 & force all non-muslims to convert & pay the prescibed tax.

I feel we can't just explain this verse away ,IMO.

Sura 9: 29. You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

& Sura 2:256: There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
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There is no contradiction in the verses. Verses of the holy Quran have historical background. The Ist verse is about non Muslims in Medina during time of Rasullah, they are not required to fight in war, they are not force to be Muslims but the can live in peace secured protection as long as they pay tax, some Jews at the time refused to pay the required due, so the commandment came that they have to be made to pay by all means. Everyone knows that governments all over the world does not joke with tax, even in America and Nigeria.

The second one is purely about religion as it is self explanatory. Allah alam.[quote][/quote]

T.truth and Kay9,pls take ur grievances against Islam or Muslims somewhere else.

t.truth:

Islam represents backwardness, violence, wickedness and deceit. We all see what went wrong in Jos and how people were massacred, slayed and butchered persistently in Northern Nigeria for political and religious domination. I learnt that Boko Haram fighters were a group of 3,800 Nigerians, trained as fighters in Sudan, with a mission to invade Jos.

95% of wars are instigated and perpetrated by muslims. Islam is completely against democracy because in most Islamic countries, there is no freedom whatsoever.

Religion of peace indeed !!! Don't ever trust any muslim because even in their Quran they are alllowed to deceive (Al-Taqiyah) people to achieve their aim. God have mercy !!!

Kay 17:

Islam is destructive. trying someone under religious rules he doesn't believe in? muslims just create a different society with different laws inside a society. and bomb us.

@Topic,where is Lagos boy?lets talk abt the prayer beads and how to use it.

ifyalways:

@Jarus,thanks for clarifying.
LB,i was expecting to see "shaving of hair by women and eating pork" 
Please,do explain the ffg  for me ;
15. Running away from the battlefield .
33. Woman's imitating man and man's imitating woman .(dressing or what?)
58. Slaughtering an animal which has been dedicated to anyone other than Allah .
49. Lamenting, wailing, tearing the clothing, and doing other things of this sort when an affliction befalls (cant we mourn,we are humane afterall?)
57. A slave's running away from his master (thought we agreed on Islam discouraging the concept of slavery?)
brb

Salaams, IFY i am indeed sorry for the late reply just been a bit busy lately. Yeah the eating of pork is indeed a sin as well and like i said the list is not exhaustive. Thanks for the observation as well and the reason i did not include it is because of the exception and principle of necessity in islam , if one is in a place and would starve to death because of no food the eating of pork will be sinless as long as it is due to necessity an the muslim is not blatantly happy eating the pork.

Cutting of a womans hair is sinful as well but is not categorized as one of the major sins.

Regarding your queries:
15. Running from the battle field in context means mutiny. The state army is in a battle specifically and not just war and the army is advancing and in the face of the enemy and the a muslim instead of protecting the army and his duties runs away. He would have betrayed his colleagues, his duty , his commander and his God. In modern army as well it is a grave offence of which the soldier is thrown in jail , in the UK few soldiers have been imprisoned for such crimes. Islam is not just a religion confined to the mosques but it is a complete system in fact that deals with economy, politics, military, international relations and a host of things.

33. Yeah it means dressing and appearance and that is one of the reason shaving of hair for a woman is wrong. Use of ear rings for men and related things. This is also subject to the culture of the society as the earing of skirt by a Scottish Muslim will not be a sin as that is the culture, it only becomes wrong if the skirt is above his knee as in Islam unclothedness is from the navel to the knee. I hope you understand my point.

58. This means there is an ogun festival in the yoruba towns and they slaughter a cow for ogun (god of iron) that animal is haram to eat as it has been slaughtered for an idol. When Muslims slaughter an animal we mention the name of Allah on the animal to butress the fact that it is a mercy from God to have given us power and subdued this animal for us to slaughter for food. If he wanted he could give the animal power over us as we are both his creatures.

49. We can definitely mourn in Islam , mourning becomes a sin when it turns to extreme wailing. A calamity happens and a woman runs to the street tears her cloth apart and start to curse God or blaspheme God for causing her to face such calamity. That will become a sin.

57. That was merely an academic inclusion, slavery has been abolished except a Mauritania you are right and it is not really relevant here.

Let me know if my explanations are clear

ifyalways:

@Topic,where is Lagos boy?lets talk abt the prayer beads and how to use it.

I dey here o 

Prayer beads are used for remeberance of Allah (dhikr) theyare used to keep count of the celeberations of the names of Allah or his glorification. The Prophet PBUH recommended us to say after every salah

Subuhanallah 33 ce (Glory be to Allah)
Alihamdulilah 33ce (Praise be to Allah)
Allahu Akbar 33ce (Allah is great)

WE could use the prayer beads to keep count of the number or use our fingers whichever the Muslim finds easier. For me i am very forgetful  so i use the prayer beads and i love the beads. The bead is nothing except a mere tool or instrument to help keep count nothing more! no superstitious should be attached to it.

There are several other dhikr the prophet PBUH reccommended with a specific number so we use the beads to help us keep count and Allah knows what is in our heart.

Maybe we should talk about dhikr next but your rules of this thread is i only answer what you ask i remember so i will keep shut