ishmael:

I'm done with you. thank God you believe that Christians and Jews worship the same God despite the fact that Jews do not believe that a Christ was ever born. It equally applies that that Muslims and Christians worship the same God because the Jews worship the God of Abraham, Jacob and Moses which the Muslims also worship too. Never you say that Muslims don't worship the same God with Christians again.

As usual you have just done what you were warned to desist from. Making statements as fact without a single shred of evidence to back it up! The lie that is inherent in your write up is your disguised attempt to lump Islam and Judaism together simply on the basis that "jews do not believe that a Christ was ever born". Majority of jews may not have believed Jesus Christ was the Messiah simply because they expected Him to have come in a blaze of glory to reign over them and not as a mere child in a manger.

Several things set the muslims apart from the Jews:
1. Jews and Christians worship the same Jehovah who first spoke to Abraham in the land of Ur of the Chaldeans. Muslims DO NOT even know that God!
2. The difference between Judaism and Christianity is that while the jews are still stuck with the old covenant that was of the law, God has moved to othe dispensation of grace under a new covenant that is the basis of christianity today. Muslims are NOT a part of either covenants!
3. The same God of the old testament that judaism holds unto is the same God that christians worship! As is evident from the Torah and the holy bible! Both scriptures are radically as different from the quran as the east is from the west!

ishmael:

Please bros point of correction i'm a christian and not a muslim. Take note!!

Good night. I'm tired for now.

Yep i have taken due note of the fact that you are a "christian" on the basis of religion only. You definitely have no knowledge of the God you purport to serve.

You cannot make statements like that on this forum. They are provocative and judgemental.

If he cals himself a Christian, he's a Christian. You can use additional adjectives to quilify your own Chrisianity.

i would have assumed he should be the one complaining and not you dont you think?

@Seun,

I can't understand why you can feel that statements questioning whether people are Christians or not are judgemental, but you've been so taciturn as to ishmael's judgemental attitude towards the Jews and Christians. I'm just wondering. I know I haven't accused ishmael of not being a christian; but then it doesn't stand to reason that you often jump at that statement. Perhaps it would be balanced to caution ishmael as well to not be as judgemental in his posts, especially because he has not made statements of facts on about the Jews in his acknowledgements that Muhammad hated them.

mrpataki: Again it is people of your type that go again to label certain people as church goers, and not christians, label certain peeps as "christians", yet to exchange insults, is your delight.

Ah!  Most Highest Bishop Prophet Pastor mrpataki, now you're beginning to amuse me the more with the way you perfectly qualify yourself .  But unlike David, you didn't use a Bible verse.  I know you're still learning. . with time, you'll learn the art perfectly.

Now let me remind you of who started the insults. . . - Your "very good Christian" friend, David, who brought in words like "Idiot", "Ignorant", "deluded", "blind", etc to an initially peaceful thread.

Then you took the baton from him when you started with:

1.  Stop making me to believe that you cannot reason at all! (Last paragraph)

2.  Reverend and his moronic species (2nd to the last paragraph)

3.  I should apply my sense of Logic (paraphrased, Last paragraph)

4.  Sometimes I forget that I am not talking to people of great minds  (1st paragraph)

There!  I've hyperlinked your insults and indicated where they can be found in each posts, Mr. Good Christian.

@All: 

What I've gathered so far from this thread is that "Christians" believe Muslims worship an idol simply because they deny the concept of Trinity.  (I find that quite funny actually).

However, what you have failed to realize is that the only reason why anyone would deny your idealogy about something you believe in, is because they believe in that same thing too.  If Muslims truly worship another 'god', they wouldn't bother arguing on the concept of Trinity with us in the first place.

. . .that was an illogical statement, goodguy.

Thanks for the compliments.

@goodguy,

goodguy:

What I've gathered so far from this thread is that "Christians" believe Muslims worship an idol simply because they deny the concept of Trinity. (I find that quite funny actually).

It's actually funny that you think the Trinity settles everything about the great divide between both faiths, which is far from the core of issues. What you haven't taken into consideration is that Muhammad denied the core teachings of Jesus Christ. And while claiming to have been sent by the same God of the Biblical faiths, Muhammad failed on many counts to convincingly prove his claim in substance and merely used Biblical terminology and names of prophets to pretend his prophetic call.

goodguy:

However, what you have failed to realize is that the only reason why anyone would deny an idealogy about something you believe in, is because they believe in that same thing too.

Quite on the contrary. Following your line of reasoning, could we say that: 'The only reason why an atheist would deny the beliefs of theism is because atheists believe in the existence of God too'?? I'm staggered at such a logic; and if you want to test this idea out - just simply ask the atheists on the Forum.

goodguy:

If Muslims truly worship another god, they wouldn't bother arguing on the concept of Trinity with us in the first place.

And since they bother arguing the Trinity with us, does that mean they worship the same 'God'?

What you are failing to consider is Muhammad's denials of the core beliefs of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures; and he made these denials by revelation, and not by opinion! You cannot have the same deity both proclaiming the divine Sonship of Jesus Christ while denying it at the same time!

Goodguy, I hope you now see what i meant by "that statement was illogical"?

Thanks to barikade for pointing out why it was so.

Let's be pratical. Like bari_kade proposed, let's call one of 'em atheists (exu, what's poppin' yo?? ) and apply your line of logic. You'll see why it's illogical.

One more thing goodguy, i wasn't dissing you with my previous post, don't get offended. . .

@ goodguy,

goodguy:

@All:

What I've gathered so far from this thread is that "Christians" believe Muslims worship an idol simply because they deny the concept of Trinity. (I find that quite funny actually).

Add this to the compendium of my insults, you know very little about the teachings of God!
Personally I am made to believe that neither do you believe in the concept of the trinity. To you, it is outright foolishness, well, worshipping an idol and trying to equate it to the I Am the I Am is far more than the concept of the trinity alone!
Your inputs here only goes to show how myopic you are in spiritual matters.

Why do Christians always accuse muslims of worshipping an idol and not the true God?? What if the muslims accuse christians of not worshipping the true God but an idol?? How would you react to that?? You will only try to defend yourself thats what i know; but that does n't make u right in anyway. If i may ask, what about Jehovah's witness people that say Jesus christ is not God?? are they not worshipping the true God??

@ishmael,

Whenever I just feel like a little sport of amusement, I check out your posts.

For goodness sake, why don't you just solve your plethora of unsubstantiated and convoluted ideas by checking the sources of your misguided inputs? I pray you don't read me being unnecessarily emotional; but that would only be thanks to the fact that you've always made inputs that are far-fetched and bear no weight at all to the core of issues.

ishmael:

Why do Christians always accuse muslims of worshipping an idol and not the true God??

Besides several others, Muhammad only used Biblical terms and names without a clear understanding of the God of the Bible.

Second, Muhammad's hatred for both Jews and Christians betrays his masque of a false prophet pretending to have come in the name of the Biblical God.

Third, the historical anticedents as confirmed in the Qur'an show that Muhammad venerated only a few of the idols of his day - and this has been well-attested by even Muslim writers.

Fourth, Muhammad knew nothing about the Spirit of God, without whom it is impossible to receive revelation from the Biblical God. At least, this one alone should help shape your thinking about this tired and worn argument about Christians and Muslims worshipping the same God!

ishmael:

What if the muslims accuse christians of not worshipping the true God but an idol??

It is not a question of "what if" - this accusation has been levied time and again against Christians by Muslims themselves. If you actually have been following events in recent developments, what have Muslims actually been calling the "Christian" West? Among several appellations, anything "Christian" or "Western" is referred to as "the great shaitan" (Satan) that must be destroyed!

ishmael:

How would you react to that?? You will only try to defend yourself thats what i know; but that does n't make u right in anyway.

Two things: (a) anyone on the receiving end is bound to offer a defence - it is called apologetics; and apologetics is not a dead art in Islam; (b) if Muslims try to defend themselves, it also does not make them right in anyway - and that's why Islam is constantly being examined and queried.

ishmael:

If i may ask, what about Jehovah's witness people that say Jesus christ is not God?? are they not worshipping the true God??

Jehovah Witnesses as a group are referred to as a Christian cult, and not an Islamic cult. There are as many Islamic cults in Muhammad's religion that are attacking themselves, and not one of them bothers about sects in other religions when debating one another within Islam.

This cheap interjection of appealing to Jehovah Witnesses is a well-known technique employed by people who have run out of straws and are only grasping after desperate, empty fancies to cover up their fallacies. People arguing this way are often termed "eristic" (given to disputation for its own sake and often employing specious arguments). I trust you can do better than that.

@bari_kade
i live in the north o, and for peace to reign i think we just have to say we worship the same God with them so that they don't get angry and start killing us or burning our houses. All these things you've been saying here on nairaland about Islam and muslims i really thank God it's on the internet, else what it would have caused in a place like kaduna where i reside no body would have imagined it. They don't find things like this funny oo; even comments or statements that are far less than what you have been saying here get them offended and angry, and before you know it they've started burning and killing. please since they say they worship the true God lets leave them like that for the sake of peace. I rest my case for the muslims here because i want peace.

@ishmael,

I am truly humbled at your response - and I trust it is genuine. If you recall, I said quite early in this thread that I sue for peace as well: but not at the expense of truth. May God keep and protect you and all yours in the midst of your neighbours.

God bless.

Thanks a lot for your response, bari_kade. However, I think you misunderstood me here:

bari_kade:

Quite on the contrary. Following your line of reasoning, could we say that: 'The only reason why an atheist would deny the beliefs of theism is because atheists believe in the existence of God too'?? I'm staggered at such a logic; and if you want to test this idea out - just simply ask the atheists on the Forum.

Note: I used Ideology there, not Belief. An Idealogy is quite different from a belief. For someone to deny your idealogy about something he knows you believe in, that person must also believe in that same thing, but only sees it differently -- hence, the need for the opposition. This is not the case with belief. Your example up there only applies to belief, as you have rightly put it yourself, and not the idealogy.

mrpataki:

@ goodguy,
Add this to the compendium of my insults, you know very little about the teachings of God!

I hope you saw the way bari_kade responded to the same post you quoted?  Rather than disparage me to tell me how unknowledgeable I am, he simply showed me how Christianly he is by attempting to correct me.

You, on the other hand, are not displaying a true Christian virtue here at all.  I don't have any issues with you at all, mrpataki.  But the way you reply to posts, supposedly trying to show people "the way", is really nothing to write home about.  What exactly are you going to call these replies of yours?  That you're simply trying to open the eyes of a 'blind' and 'deluded' Christian by emphasizing and re-emphasizing to him how blind and deluded he is?  Is that how Christ taught you to put people on the right track?  Above all brother, please meditate on Proverbs 15:1.

mrpataki:

Personally I am made to believe that neither do you believe in the concept of the trinity. To you, it is outright foolishness, well, worshipping an idol and trying to equate it to the I Am the I Am is far more than the concept of the trinity alone!

I really do not owe you any explanations concerning my belief in God, as well as Trinity.  However, I will just refer you to some of my posts that show my stance on the issue of trinity.  Whether you choose to believe or not will actually not bother me in any way.

Here they are:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.128.html#msg773807
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.128.html#msg775818
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.224.html#msg788540
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.224.html#msg790109
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.224.html#msg790160
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.224.html#msg790175 [My reply to Shahan's first post on Nairaland]

mrpataki:

Your inputs here only goes to show how myopic you are in spiritual matters.

I don't know why you have taken so much delight in attacking me on this forum.  It all started when you started referring to my reasoning on the other thread just for posting my views, then with my subsequent refutations of every single line of your post.  Ever since then, goodguy has become a devil to you.  You even went to the extent of labelling me a Muslim, just for opposing your views!

That aside, isn't it funny how you never even attempted to deal with the posts, but you're more interested in telling me how myopic and ignorant I am?  Jesus Christ would never do this, my fellow Christ[/b]ian brother.   By the way, I never claimed to know enough about Spiritual matters.  If you read my first entry on this thread carefully, you'd see where I said that I needed clarification on this issue, and probably have my views changed.

Please be slow to denigrate, [b]mrpataki.

@ goodguy,
Its quite ridiculous to me to see an Imam trying to preach to me here I would have loved to quote all your jargons above and give you resposes due for your size, but again whats the point? An Imam will always be an Imam, except if convicted by the Holy Spirit.

Again, your post above just tries to pass across the message to me of you seeking public sympathy to your plight.
Well, you just got mine! Sorry if my inputs to you were terrible Imam goodguy.

But more importantly, you make a babyish assumption here, that all responses must suit your taste and desire, which I dont correspond to. Not all inputs do I, give a response to here, if I feel I am going to make sense greatly, I do that, or just add a level of humor to the whole thing. Even though I might have an extensive knowledge as to the subject matter. As to your case, I guess you are better left to your ways of thinking!
Funny that the same scripture ope_emi uses to admonish davidylan, is the same error you are falling into now.


As to my views of you being a muslim, I am not convinced that you are not.
Also, I dont hate any muslim brother or sister, infact, I was at the hospital today and I was attended to by an Alfa, who is a doctor! very nice and understanding a human being.
I only hate that religion!

mrpataki:

Also, I don't hate any muslim brother or sister, infact, I was at the hospital today and I was attended to by an Alfa, who is a doctor! very nice and understanding a human being.
I only hate that religion!

I just have 'one question', do you think God will condemn that doctor to hell for being a Muslim?

mrpataki:

@ goodguy,
Its quite ridiculous to me to see an Imam trying to preach to me here

What a nice way to evade my post.  You should have just accepted your mistakes (even if it was done privately, that wouldn't be a problem), and ended it there, rather than reveal more of your inconsistencies publicly.

By the way, what's wrong with an Imam preaching to someone?  If what the Imam is saying is the truth, what's ridiculous about it?  It's the message that matters, not the messenger.  Take note.

mrpataki:

I would have loved to quote all your jargons above and give you resposes due for your size, but again whats the point? An Imam will always be an Imam, except if convicted by the Holy Spirit.

Funny how you are quick to label my post 'jargons', but you were unable to point out a single jargon in the post.  There's no point giving me "responses due to my size" because:

1.  You don't even know my size.
2.  You really don't have anything to say to me because I hit you real hard with the truth.

mrpataki:

Again, your post above just tries to pass across the message to me of you seeking public sympathy to your plight.

What part of my post exactly? And what's the plight you're talking about?  It seems to me that you really do love making presumptions, even when there's absolutely no basis for it.

mrpataki:

Well, you just got mine! Sorry if my inputs to you were terrible Imam goodguy.

No one will castigate you for being straightforward in your apology.  You know it yourself that I have done absolutely nothing wrong to you to warrant all these attacks against me.  When exactly did defending Islam become a crime?

mrpataki:

But more importantly, you make a babyish assumption here, that all responses must suit your taste and desire, which I don't correspond to.

Can you kindly point out the exact assumption?  Please, don't evade this one.

mrpataki:

Not all inputs do I, give a response to here, if I feel I am going to make sense greatly, I do that, or just add a level of humor to the whole thing. Even though I might have an extensive knowledge as to the subject matter.

Weren't you the same person that reprimanded ope_emi for ascribing the glory of God to his intellect?  Now, you're guilty of the same thing.

mrpataki:

As to your case, I guess you are better left to your ways of thinking!

And why should that be?  It seems to me that you're just deliberately jumping down on my throat without any valid reason.  Because I have pointed out your inconsistencies in my previous posts, you don't have anything to say to justify yourself, and you feel resorting to these cheap attacks will attract the applauds of others here?

mrpataki:

Funny that the same scripture ope_emi uses to admonish davidylan, is the same error you are falling into now.

Matthew 7:1-2 right?  Pray tell, how have I jugded you or anyone else here?  Don't evade this one either.

mrpataki:

As to my views of you being a muslim, I am not convinced that you are not.

You don't need to be convinced.  Just have it at the back of your mind that I am not a Muslim.  What will it cost me to say I am one, if truly I am?  Will Seun ban me, or will anyone kill me for that?  I have been on this forum since the first day of September 2005, and if you think I have been faking my religion all the while, na u sabi.

mrpataki:

Also, I don't hate any muslim brother or sister, infact, I was at the hospital today and I was attended to by an Alfa, who is a doctor! very nice and understanding a human being.
I only hate that religion!

Congrats!

ope_emi:

I just have 'one question', do you think God will condemn that doctor to hell for being a Muslim?

I just have one answer, read the story of Jesus and Nicodemus. I doubt if Jesus was clappiing nicodemus on the back for having qualified for heaven on the basis of being a "nice" pharisee!

@ davidylan,
Maybe he thinks being nice is one of the fruit of the spirit! Even the devil can be nice!

@ goodguy,

goodguy:

What a nice way to evade my post. You should have just accepted your mistakes (even if it was done privately, that wouldn't be a problem), and ended it there, rather than reveal more of your inconsistencies publicly.

By the way, what's wrong with an Imam preaching to someone? If what the Imam is saying is the truth, what's ridiculous about it? It's the message that matters, not the messenger. Take note.

Funny how you are quick to label my post 'jargons', but you were unable to point out a single jargon in the post. There's no point giving me "responses due to my size" because:

1. You don't even know my size.
2. You really don't have anything to say to me because I hit you real hard with the truth.

What part of my post exactly? And what's the plight you're talking about? It seems to me that you really do love making presumptions, even when there's absolutely no basis for it.

No one will castigate you for being straightforward in your apology. You know it yourself that I have done absolutely nothing wrong to you to warrant all these attacks against me. When exactly did defending Islam become a crime?

Can you kindly point out the exact assumption? Please, don't evade this one.

Weren't you the same person that reprimanded ope_emi for ascribing the glory of God to his intellect? Now, you're guilty of the same thing.

And why should that be? It seems to me that you're just deliberately jumping down on my throat without any valid reason. Because I have pointed out your inconsistencies in my previous posts, you don't have anything to say to justify yourself, and you feel resorting to these cheap attacks will attract the applauds of others here?

Matthew 7:1-2 right? Pray tell, how have I jugded you or anyone else here? Don't evade this one either.

You don't need to be convinced. Just have it at the back of your mind that I am not a Muslim. What will it cost me to say I am one, if truly I am? Will Seun ban me, or will anyone kill me for that? I have been on this forum since the first day of September 2005, and if you think I have been faking my religion all the while, na u sabi.

Congrats!

I am actually flabbergasted at your thought patterns here!
Reading your post goes to show a long way, what kind of kid you really are. Grow out of it, you are fast becoming a man.
Your input here proves one thing, you can't read in between the lines and see that you have no point here.

ope_emi:

I just have 'one question', do you think God will condemn that doctor to hell for being a Muslim?

If the Muslim doctor does not acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus Christ, there is no other way to salvation. You of all people should even know better.

mrpataki:

@ davidylan,
Maybe he thinks being nice is one of the fruit of the spirit! Even the devil can be nice!

mr. important, it beggars the mind to read some of what emanates from the minds of so-called "christians". I would be seriously ashamed to associate myself with a "christian" who still has no clue what it takes to enjoy eternall life.
If being nice is enough to take me to heaven, i might as well close shop as a christian, marry as many wives and concubines, get drunken, steal, so long as i am nice to everyone i meet!

As for goodguy, ii would advice you let him enjoy his ignorant fantasyland where christians and muslims worship the same "god".

Advice heeded to henceforth.

@David
The God of Abram (Abraham) is also worshipped by Muslims go and do your history david.
Ishmael the forfather of Muhammed just happens to be Abrams child.
I think you should know this from your readings of the Holy Bible.
The fact that so many different denominations have different views of the Holy Bible should lay claim to the diverse interpretations that are in the Bible. The Quran however is more of a directoritive religion, though some extremist have also misinterpretated this for the worse. The exact same thing that happened when the first Popes would carry out there crusades (Holy Wars).

mrpataki:

@ goodguy,
I am actually flabbergasted at your thought patterns here!

Of course, you should be!  I am equally flabbergasted at your response pattern too.  You remind me of secondary school days; I told you that once, remember?

mrpataki:

Reading your post goes to show a long way, what kind of kid you really are. Grow out of it, you are fast becoming a man.

Now it has become "kid", no longer "Muslim".  Perhaps, you meant to write "Muslim kid".  Either way, this advice of yours will really go a long way in shaping you into a proper man.

mrpataki:

Your input here proves one thing, you can't read in between the lines and see that you have no point here.

Okay sir.  Since you have realised that, why don't you lead me on the right way?

davidylan:

As for goodguy, ii would advice you let him enjoy his ignorant fantasyland where christians and muslims worship the same "god".

Okay Mr. Good Christian David, since I'm ignorant and you know it, why don't you educate me, rather than continually emphasize how ignorant you feel I am?

@ pataki & David

Okay, on a more serious note now.  I don't have any problems with you guys at all.  But when you begin to label some people as ignorant, blind Christians, then will I begin to fault you on that basis.

I want to make you realise that one can only be informed on what he knows.  The fact that I'm not deeply informed on a particular subject does not make me ignorant of the whole body of the matter.  Just as you know some things about Christianity, there are other things that I know better than you do.  But that does not make you an ignorant Christian.

Besides, you cannot continually emphasize to someone how ignorant he is, and expect him to constantly smile back at you.  If you feel I am ignorant, make me know what I don't know, rather than find adjectives and Bible verses to qualify my ignorance the more!  That's what makes you a good Christian - being Christ-like; and that's why out of all my opposers on this thread, it's only bari_kade's and sometimes, gbade. x's rejoinders that I have been finding worthwhile.

David, what would you think of Jesus if, when Nicodemus went to him, He had said . . . "How ignorant of you!  A pharisee that doesn't know the things of the spirit!  Are you sure you really have the spirit of God in you?  You're so blind!  Go and study the scriptures better!" -- You tell.

You guys need to see the way I smile at your posts whenever I see you question the strength of my Christian life.  The very same people that accuse others of 'not being Christian enough' are equally guilty of some things that they do not realise themselves.  Very ironical, innit?  That's what makes us humans afterall.

Anyway, I just hope you guys will call off these cat fights with me.  If you disagree with me, present your points without aggression, then we may have a civil debate together.  But if you begin to attack me for making my points, in the name of disagreement, then don't expect to see a cool-headed goodguy.

Shalom!

Just a little reference to the point that most Muslims themselves are the ones who acknowledge that they don't worship the same God as do the Christians ~~

mukina2:

we believe in Illa Allah
. . .
the christians have Jehovah

Source: Don't Muslims Worship The Same God As Christians?

belloti:

oh yes Shahan . And i don't think we worship the same God

Source: Don't Muslims Worship The Same God As Christians?

This may just be the case of a few Muslims on the Forum who hinted about the dichotomy that exists between the deities worship in Christianity and Islam. However, I have read some more serious statements to the point that most scholarly Muslims argue they worship a different God from the one Christians worship.