. . . .by disagreeing that Christianity and Islam serve different deities, you are indirectly saying that Jesus i s not "the way, the truth, and the life".

Simple as ABC.

ope_emi:

Will you try explaining what you meant by "off-mark inputs".

If you think I was ascribing the glory of answers to my intellect as you put it, then will you try explaining to me what the verse quoted by davidylan meant.

I guess this was a typo.

Like we all know this common proverbs that says, "Fingers are not equal". There will be people who will do anything to keep there family into there religion. While there are some who believes the world would be a better place regardless of there religion.

You see, there will always be people like Reverend, and you can't force them of there beliefs. All we can do is to advice and tell them the truth. It is now left to them to make a choice. And whatever they say against you shouldn't be of any importance as long as you have your faith rooted in God.

And I believe as a Christian by faith such derogatory words like "moronic species" should be used, right?

They word Christian is very easy to say. If you are a Christian by mouth, so shall it be(as above). But if you are a Christian by faith, the Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival.

I will get back to your fallacy above!

Sorry! Typo error there!!

I meant to say that by disagreeing/refusing to accept the fact that Christians and Muslims serve different deities, you are indirectly saying that Jesus is not "the way, the truth, and the life".

Shikena

ope_emi:

And I believe as a Christian by faith such derogatory words like "moronic species" should be used, right?

It is disgusting the way "christians" try to put up a holier-than-thou attitude on these boards.

Matt 23: 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Would you accuse Jesus of being "unchristian" here for using "Derogatory" words?

Sorry! Typo error there!!

I meant to say that by disagreeing/refusing to accept the fact that Christians and Muslims serve different deities, you are indirectly saying that Jesus is not "the way, the truth, and the life".

Shikena

Sorry! Typo error there!!

I meant to say that by disagreeing/refusing to accept the fact that Christians and Muslims serve different deities, you are indirectly saying that Jesus is not "the way, the truth, and the life".

Shikena

Sorry! Typo error there!!

I meant to say that by disagreeing/refusing to accept the fact that Christians and Muslims serve different deities, you are indirectly saying that Jesus is not "the way, the truth, and the life".

Shikena

Shikena

ope_emi:

Will you try explaining what you meant by "off-mark inputs".

Sometimes I forget that I am not talking to people of great minds, the other time goodguy was misquoting me when I said "great nairalanders", he was quick to cook up the theory that there were non-great nairalanders. When you are looking for cheap scores, you begin to go offpoint. My "off-mark inputs" was a coinage for the term "offpoints", in my own world.

ope_emi:


If you think I was ascribing the glory of answers to my intellect as you put it, then will you try explaining to me what the verse quoted by davidylan meant.

I have addressed you where I saw the error, your question is better posed to davidylan, whom you want to show off your erudite training to.

ope_emi:


Like we all know this common proverbs that says, "Fingers are not equal". There will be people who will do anything to keep there family into there religion. While there are some who believes the world would be a better place regardless of there religion.

You see, there will always be people like Reverend, and you can't force them of there beliefs. All we can do is to advice and tell them the truth. It is now left to them to make a choice. And whatever they say against you shouldn't be of any importance as long as you have your faith rooted in God.

And I believe as a Christian by faith such derogatory words like "moronic species" should be used, right?

They word Christian is very easy to say. If you are a Christian by mouth, so shall it be(as above). But if you are a Christian by faith, the Kingdom of Heaven awaits your arrival.

I agree best with davidylan here as he has adequately adressed this input of yours. Just to add that, I will want you to shed more light on this scripture for me, the erudite one!:

Matthew 11:12 -And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

God Bless and Happy Sunday to you.

mrpataki:

Sometimes I forget that I am not talking to people of great minds,

Maybe because you're not one yourself?

mrpataki:

the other time goodguy was misquoting me when I said "great Nairaland users", he was quick to cook up the theory that there were non-great Nairaland users.

I expected you to get the satire. Unfortunately, you didn't.

mrpataki:

Matthew 11:12 -And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

If this is to back up David's Matt 23:33, all I can say is "Haba!"

So you too have joined the league of the Out-of-context Bible quoters?  Please just be yourself, mrpataki.  A good Christian is not determined by how many Bible verses he can quote offhand.  When you're wrong and you know it yourself, just accept humbly, rather than quote Bible verses completely out of context to justify yourself.  David that you're taking after has not gotten out of the one he trapped himself in earlier, and he has cunningly dodged my post.

Pray tell, how on earth does Matthew 11:12 have anything to do with ope_emi's rebuttal?

I am not claiming to know better than anyone here, but on this issue. . .  Haba!

gbade. x:

Sorry! Typo error there!!

I meant to say that by disagreeing/refusing to accept the fact that Christians and Muslims serve different deities, you are indirectly saying that Jesus is not "the way, the truth, and the life".

Shikena

I am not indirectly saying that. I am not even implying that at all. You may present your arguments here, if you don't mind: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-37590.0.html and you'll see where I'm coming from.

By the way gbade. x, I really do commend you for the level of maturity you've displayed here so far. Please keep it up.

And I just want to say this:


In all honesty, I never knew there are Christians that actually see Islam this way until I joined Nairaland.

But then, babyosisi's post in a certain thread only goes to prove further, my stance on this issue.  However, I realized that another post of hers in the same thread is exactly why Christians believe both religions worship different Gods.  But then, hasn't that even re-emphasized my point that Christianity and Islam see God in different ways?  I love the way JosBoy4Lif put it:  There's only One God, but different Idealogies.

Think about it guys.

christians always believe the Bible is all and all while muslims too believe the Koran is all and all. What proof do christians have to show that the Bible is all and all.?? And what proof do muslims have to show that the Koran is all and all?? Where you as a christian there when the Bible was written?? Is it not by faith that you believe the Bible is God's word?? Where u as a muslim there when Allah gave the Koran to Muhammed?? is it not by faith that you believe that the Koran contains God's word?? No religion is superior to the other, we all worship the same God. Muslims believe in Abraham, Moses, Jacob, John the Baptist and even Jesus christ, although they do nothave the revelation that Jesus christ is the son of God; but they believe and worship the God of these prophets of God which were also mentioned in the Bible, so why should you conclude now that the God of the muslims is different from the God of the christians?? what about the Jews who do not believe in Jesus Christ, is it not the same God that Christians worship that they worship too?? We should not expect the Bible and the Koran to have the same stories about God, there must be discripancies. Even in the new testament in the Bible, the gospels written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are not totally the same, but they are all saying the same thing; so is the Koran and the Bible, they all agree that there is ONE GOD.

If Christians will not agree that Muslims worship the same God with them, they should also say that they don't worship the same God with those who practice Judiasm (the Jews), because they don't in anyway believe in Jesus Christ.

People arguing that Muslims and Christians worship the same God are simply not facing reality. Muhammad came denying categorically what Christ taught, and you guys are here arguing about Islam's denials only as a matter of different views.

Do one simply thing: take your convoluted views to the Mosques in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and tell them that Jesus Christ is the Son of God - then come back and narrate your experience! Even Muslims who do not banter to the liberal opinions of this insane argument will tell you that Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God regardless of what anyone thinks!

People who call themselves Christians and still vend around this idea of "the same God" between both faiths are confirming the fact that they have neither studied the Bible, nor understood the implications of Christ's teaching, nor take Him seriously! For once, such people should simply wake up and read their Bibles.

ishmael:

Even in the new testament in the Bible, the gospels written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are not totally the same, but they are all saying the same thing; so is the Koran and the Bible, they all agree that there is ONE GOD.

James 2:19 - "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

davidylan:

It is disgusting the way "christians" try to put up a holier-than-thou attitude on these boards.

It only shows the level of there maturity on the board as long as there is abusive words being spilled out.

davidylan:
Matt 23: 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Well if I saw, "Ye moronic species, ye generation of fools, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?". It would have being a different case. 

davidylan:
Would you accuse Jesus of being "unchristian" here for using "Derogatory" words?

Jesus was never a Christian because Jesus is Christ(Messiah). Jesus brought Christianity. Who art thou to accuse the lord.

But as for you;
Matt 7:1, 2; ¹"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. ²For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

4get_me:

Do one simply thing: take your convoluted views to the Mosques in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and tell them that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -

Why should you expect them to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God when their Koran tells them that Jesus christ is a prophet of God. And how has that made them not to worship the same God that Christians worship?? What about the Jews, do they worship the same God the christians worship, despite the fact that they don't believe in Jesus Christ?? Jews, Christians and Muslims alike worship the same God else they will not be having similarly stories about who God is, about creation, about God's prophets etc. Have you ever wondered why you have the story of the birth of Jesus Christ and some of the miracles he performed in the koran?? What would mohammed have gained to say jesus christ was not God?? Simple, Muhammad got a revelation from God that Jesus Christ was a Prophet and did not get the revelation that Jesus christ was the son of God or that Jesus Christ was God.

mrpataki:

Sometimes I forget that I am not talking to people of great minds, the other time goodguy was misquoting me when I said "great Nairaland users", he was quick to cook up the theory that there were non-great Nairaland users. When you are looking for cheap scores, you begin to go offpoint. My "off-mark inputs" was a coinage for the term "offpoints", in my own world.

I guess in your world, people think the same ways as you do, you should be called the Great Sect of Christians then.

mrpataki:
I have addressed you where I saw the error, your question is better posed to davidylan, whom you want to show off your erudite training to.

My error!, if I indeed I ascribed the glory of answers to my intellect, then why not correct me instead of laying flimsy excuses.

mrpataki:
I agree best with davidylan here as he has adequately adressed this input of yours. Just to add that, I will want you to shed more light on this scripture for me, the erudite one!:

Oh! , you mean the holier-than-thou attitude which davidylan posted. I guess you do think the same way.

mrpataki:
Matthew 11:12 -And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

I don't see this giving answers to the questions being asked.

mrpataki:
God Bless and Happy Sunday to you.

My Sunday was Great, Thanks.

@ishmael,

ishmael:

Why should you expect them to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God when their Koran tells them that Jesus christ is a prophet of God.

Right, they should not believe what Christ Himself taught simply because 'their Koran tells them that Jesus Christ is a prophet of God', abi? And that is how you establish your theory about 'the same God' between Christians and Muslims! Please, just get practical for once and leave off this kiddy argument. Several people here are offering you the same challenge - take your conviction to the Mosques where Islam is actually practised and face reality! At least, goodguy has acknowledged that his views of Saudi Arabia simply did not stand up to scrutiny.

ishmael:

What would mohammed have gained to say jesus christ was not God?? Simple, Muhammad got a revelation from God that Jesus Christ was a Prophet and did not get the revelation that Jesus christ was the son of God or that Jesus Christ was God.

Again you are peddling your idea that has no substance to reality! It is not a partial revelation that Muhammad claimed - he categorically denied the revelation of the deity/divine Sonship of Jesus Christ. What that means is simply stated by Christ Himself:

John 8:24 - "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

That is not an opinion of Christ - it is His sure Word. Believe whatever you want about creation, the virgin birth, etc.,. . . and then deny the divine Sonship of Christ on the excuse that it is still 'the same God'; you only would still be confirming that your arguments have no substance because you still peddle ideas that have no real basis.

Let's put it this way: does it really matter that Jesus Christ Himself asks people to believe on Him as "the Son" rather than just a prophet? What do you think someone as a "Christian" would gain by believing that Jesus was merely a good man, a moral teacher, a prophet but not the Son of God?

Prophet Muhammad got his revelation about Jesus Christ from God. Muhammad was born much more later after christianity started, he must have read the Bible too; but the revelation he claimed to have gotten from God was what he wrote down; and in it, God did not reveal to him that Jesus Christ was the son of God or That Jesus Christ was God. Do you blame him??

@ishmael,

ishmael:

Prophet Muhammad got his revelation about Jesus Christ from God.

The God who called Jesus Christ His beloved Son could not be the same 'god' who denied the divine Sonship of Jesus Christ! Again, your opinion has no substance to reality.

ishmael:

Muhammad was born much more later after christianity started, he must have read the Bible too; but the revelation he claimed to have gotten from God was what he wrote down; and in it, God did not reveal to him that Jesus Christ was the son of God or That Jesus Christ was God. Do you blame him??

Muhammad did not receive a partial revelation about Jesus Christ; rather, he categorically denied the revelation of Jesus Christ as the Son of God! None of the Biblical prophets (e.g., David in the Psalms) mentioned by Muhammad in the Qur'an ever denied the divine Sonship of the Messiah - if there was ever any one such Biblical prophet who made such a denial, then please quote him!

You keep mixing up issues and arriving at baseless arguments, ishmael.

Really am sick of people of your type, that is goodguy, ope_emi. Your inputs here goes to show a long way, how much you apply yourself to the study of Gods word. Again it is people of your type that go again to label certain people as church goers, and not christians, label certain peeps as "christians", yet to exchange insults, is your delight.

How shameful of you both to equate the Holy One of Isreal to the Idol of Islam!

@ ope_emi,

mrpataki:

Matthew 11:12 -And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

ope_emi link=topic=38605.msg866040#msg866040 date=1170674944:


I don't see this giving answers to the questions being asked.

Asking you a verse in the bible and you cannot give a response to it, shows how fibble and weak you are in Gods word! Yet you can open your mouth to say you are giving an erudite answer. You should have sought for Imam goodguy to explain the verse to you. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is the king of all! Keep tagging along oh.

Sorry, but do you believe also Christians and Muslims serve the same God ?

NB. I dont shy away from been corrected here, it has happened before and I gladly accepted the correction from all.

@ All,
Beware of wolves in sheep clothings!

bari_kade:

@ishmael,
Muhammad did not receive a partial revelation about Jesus Christ; rather, he categorically denied the revelation of Jesus Christ as the Son of God!

If he denied the revelation of Jesus Christ  being the son of God, that means he actually got a revelation from God. Did he deny the existence of God in heaven?? Does that make him and his followers not to be worshipping the true God, the God of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, John the Baptist?? What about the Jews that refused to believe in Jesus Christ?? Are they not worshippers of the true God?? Are the muslims not  better than them?? Atleast they agreed that Jesus was born by a virgin, and performed so many miracles while on earth. Please answer my question o; Do Jews worship the same God with christians?? We even have some christian sects like Jehovah's witness who do not believe that Jesus christ is God; would you now conclude that they don't worship the same God with other church goers and christians??

@ishmael,

ishmael:

If he denied the revelation about Jesus Christ did he deny the existence of God in heaven?? Does that make him and his followers not to be worshipping the true God??

So, you agree he denied the revelation about Jesus Christ? I'm not surprised it would come to this. What then is the substance of your argument??

I've said before and will repeat the same: the belief of the existence of 'God' in heaven does not mean that someone is worshipping the same God as revealed in the Biblical faiths. As already spelt out by 4get_me, demons do not deny the existence of ONE God [James 2:19 - "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."] - Does that mean demons are worshippers because they also believe in the existence of God?

Your argument still does not prove anything of vital import to the discussion, and you're losing the plot.

ishmael:

The God of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, John the Baptist. What about the Jews that refuse to believe in Jesus Christ?? Are they not worshippers of the true God?? Are the muslims not better than them??

This prejudicial cacophony of counting the Muslims to be better than the Jews now confirms my suspicion that such language is best suited to those who hate the Jews. My question has not been answered after severally repeating it: "What crime did Christians and Jews commit to merit Muhammad's unbridled hatred?" And by making such silly remarks, you're only confirming your bias.

ishmael:

Atleast they agreed that Jesus was born by a virgin, and performed so many miracles. Please answer my question o; Do Jews worship the same God with christians??

After having besmirched the Jews, what answer are you asking for? You've been systematically polarizing yourself towards this bias for so long; and that's why I constantly appealed to you to get your facts straight before you vend your kiddy stuff. In simple language: be real!

While you're searching for the next bits of straw to clutch, here's what Jesus said about the same Jews you're derogating:

John 4:22 - "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."

@bari_kade
Please answer my question; Do Jews worship the same God with Christians?? You are running away from my question stylishly. Muslims did not only believe in the existence of God Almighty, they also worshipped him. what else do you have to say, i'm waiting 4 you.

@ishmael,

I hope you can read simple English? Is that the best straw you could grasp?

Answers to your question:

bari_kade:

Muhammad did not receive a partial revelation about Jesus Christ; rather, he categorically denied the revelation of Jesus Christ as the Son of God! None of the Biblical prophets (e.g., David in the Psalms) mentioned by Muhammad in the Qur'an ever denied the divine Sonship of the Messiah - if there was ever any one such Biblical prophet who made such a denial, then please quote him!

Did you miss that before, or you just wanted to play chess on the Forum? When the revelation about the Person and work of Jesus Christ is denied after it has been revealed, what does your Bible tell you God will do to the eristical denier?

Meanwhile, up until now you still have not attempted an answer to my question: "What crime did Christians and Jews commit to merit Muhammad's unbridled hatred?"

If you can't answer that, say so and prove that your arguments have no substance.

mrpataki:

Really am sick of people of your type, that is goodguy, ope_emi. Your inputs here goes to show a long way, how much you apply yourself to the study of Gods word. Again it is people of your type that go again to label certain people as church goers, and not christians, label certain peeps as "christians"

I am sorry that you are sick at the truth, I really don't blame you because you have never taken the time to put yourself in peoples shoes.

mrpataki:
yet to exchange insults, is your delight.

What should I call this?, I can say this is a typo. Give me or should I say pin point any area in my post that I exchanged insult with you or anybody in this forum(that would be a delight )

mrpataki:
How shameful of you both to equate the Holy One of Isreal to the Idol of Islam!

And again, where did you see my equate the Holy One of Isreal to an Idol(Is this not a shame? ).

mrpataki:
@ ope_emi,
Asking you a verse in the bible and you cannot give a response to it, shows how fibble and weak you are in Gods word! Yet you can open your mouth to say you are giving an erudite answer. You should have sought for Imam goodguy to explain the verse to you. In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is the king of all! Keep tagging along oh.

And you are the only one feeling shameful of someone, how can you suddenly deviate from the topic and go out of context using bible quotes. And yet you castigate me by saying I am fibble and weak in Gods words when you've not corrected my error(as you put).

As for the verse, Matthew 11:12 -And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Another Version(NIV)
Matthew 11:12 -From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

Here, Jesus Christ talked about John the baptist, the importance of his coming and what he meant. When the Lord said the Kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence, and violent take it by force. He meant people are trying to get into the Kingdom of heaven, does that have existed before John and now. If you think am wrong you can always correct me in your next post.

mrpataki:
Sorry, but do you believe also Christians and Muslims serve the same God ?

I can't see any sense in your post anymore mrpataki, you said I equate God with Idols, and you are just asking me the question "if I believe we serve the same God" after scolding me earlier. Now, this is a shame!

My Answer: Yes. I believe there is One Supreme God which everyone knows, just different ideologies. But Christianity is the true religion because it talked about Jesus and the Holy Trinity which is the main argument between both religion.

mrpataki:
NB. I don't shy away from been corrected here, it has happened before and I gladly accepted the correction from all.

@ All,
Beware of wolves in sheep clothings!

I pray God increases you wisdom, and unclothe the wolves.

@bari_kade
Don't run away stylishly o, answer my question.
Let me give you the answer to your question:

Mohammed hated Jews because they did not believe Jesus Christ was ever born.

He hated christians because they equate Jesus christ with God by calling him God. They see Jesus Christ as a Prophet of God and not God.

Are you ok now??

Please answer my own question; Do Jews and Christians worship the same God??

@ishmael,

ishmael:

Please answer my own question; Do Jews and Christians worship the same God??

Yes, they do - and my answer is based on what the Jewish and Christian Scriptures teach about that one same God! It is not based on opinions of men who close their eyes to what the Scriptures teach.

ishmael:

Muhammad hated Jews because they did not believe Jesus Christ was ever born.

And please, where did you ferret this out-of-the-galaxy idea from?? You again should please face reality and not a far-fetched opinion that is fogged to reality.

ishmael:

He hated christians because they equate Jesus christ with God by calling him God. They see Jesus Christ as a Prophet of God and not God.

Right, I'll give that to you because that is partly true. A few things you'll have to understand, though:

It seems to me that you're quite happy to applaud this Muhammad's hatred towards other people and yet question why Christians on the Forum are disavowing that very hatred that Muhammad preached.

Second, we have often challenged this hatred of the Arab self-acclaimed prophet as contradictory in character and calling to the Biblical prophets of God.

Thirdly, the very real threat of Muhammad's hatred is what has been partly the current driving the debates in this and other fora for the simple reason that this hate is breeding a global threat.

Fourth, when discussing issues, please make reference to facts and not fancies - because I know real Muslims who have categorically stated that Christians and Jews worship a different "God" than the "Allah" they worship in Islam.

Firth, if you really want to be persuasive, please delve into the Scriptures that adherents derive their tenets from. You really cannot make statements for the sake of it without reference to the real world. So far, that's what you've been doing - disregarding reality and proposing fallacious fancies.

ishmael:

You are running away from my question stylishly. Muslims did not only believe in the existence of God Almighty, they also worshipped him. what else do you have to say, i'm waiting 4 you.

Oh are you also one of those perpetually "waiting"?

Nah, muslims simply assume they know whom they are worshipping. A broad oppinion poll will reveal that majority of muslims are not agreed on whom theyy purport to worship. While "politically correct" ones like yourself and a few misguided "christians" are busy trying desperately to pull the wool over our eyes by your incredulous claim that you worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, more of your fanatical friends are busy telliing us with threats and bombs that we definitely do not worship the same God.

If truly you believe such a lie, can you ask yourself why Mohammed's lifestyle was radically different from those of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
Where is it alleged that they raped women, sodomised children and propagated hatred of their percieved enemies?

I'm done with you. thank God you believe that Christians and Jews worship the same God despite the fact that Jews do not believe that a Christ was ever born. It equally applies that that Muslims and Christians worship the same God because the Jews worship the God of Abraham, Jacob and Moses which the Muslims also worship too. Never you say that Muslims don't worship the same God with Christians again.

davidylan:

Oh are you also one of those perpetually "waiting"?
While "politically correct" ones like yourself and a few misguided "christians" are busy trying desperately to pull the wool over our eyes by your incredulous claim that you worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, more of your fanatical friends are busy telliing us with threats and bombs that we definitely do not worship the same God.

Please bros point of correction i'm a christian and not a muslim. Take note!!

Good nite. I'm tired for now.

@ishmael,

I have said it before and will say it again: Muslims do not worship the same God they categorically deny against both Jews and Christians with the unbridled hatred Muhammad propagated. If you cannot connect the dots, your case cannot be helped further until you open your eyes to reality and cease from the fancies you've been parading.


@davidylan,

davidylan:

. . .your incredulous claim that you worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, more of your fanatical friends are busy telliing us with threats and bombs that we definitely do not worship the same God.

If truly you believe such a lie, can you ask yourself why Muhammad's lifestyle was radically different from those of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Precisely my point about opening his eyes to reality.