Yeah, Ogaga.

[size=13pt]That's cool friend. . .too proud to have you on facebook ,now we can keep in touch so deep!! [/size]

muhsin:

Yeah, Ogaga.

^^^
So I also look forward to.

experts:

i was a little busy,

i will get back shortly and everything will be explained,

stay cool

I'm not looking for any al-taqiyya 'explained' from you. Just post me any verse where the Quran claims to have come to "correct" the Bible. I have posted verses where the Quran said that it came to CONFIRM the Bible. Now do you have any verse for your fallacy that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible?

I just took a look in the other thread and saw that babs787 has done the honorable thing in admitting that no such verse is in the Quran. So what are you Mr. Experts now trying to do with your "explanation"?

Simply post me the verse where the Quran claims to have come to "correct" the Bible - just as I posted verses where the Quran says it came to CONFIRM the Bible (post #10).

Where is your verse for your Quran claiming to have come to "correct" the Bible? SIMPLY POST THAT VERSE so we can read it for ourselves. Period.

@muhsin,

muhsin:

There is something you seemingly misunderstand with Mr. Experts's post, and that is: there are many, many issues that are already discussed by another person(s), knowing that therefore shun-away every need to re-compose the same piece with the same content. I kinda believe taking it and re-posting it is not what you claim it--plagiarism, especially since boards like this one is not an academic platform. Though I believe with something you raise, at least to some extent, that he (Experts) should include the piece's link for at least regard to the effort of its original writer.

Thank you for your comments, but I don't think they made any difference in my responses to mr Experts' plagiarised arguments from Sabeel Ahmed. Yes, I maintain that it was plagiarised - because some of us happen to have seen Sabeel's oft-recycled article in many Muslim fora. When Experts reposted it here, he ought to have left a disclaimer in recognition of its author; or done the more appropriate thing in posting it in the Muslim motherboard/section of Nairaland, if his intention was to bless Muslims and not come here in the broader Religion board seeking an unnecessary argument.

Whatever the case, the substance of Sabeel's argument are altogether redundant - and that was what I set out to demonstrate.

On the thread topical issue, you got really wrong there: although I can't, as of now, point directly a single verse where the noble Qur'an is said to be correcting the Bible, yet there are numerous proofs that that's what it has been sent to.

That again is an oft-repeated deliberate falsehood. The Quran did not argue in one instant to have come to "correct" any line in the Bible - it is Muslims who want to force themselves to believe that lie that keep crying out repeatedly that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible. Rather, to my surprise, I discovered after my first reading of the Quran that there are numerous verses affirming that it came to CONFIRM the Bible. This was why I posted several verses showing that the Quran came to CONFIRM the Bible - so that even though I might not have explained anything, the reader would see it in white and black that the Quran indeed asserts itself to confirm the Bible.

Do you have a single verse anywhere that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible? Please post that verse and let us read it for ourselves - that is all I ask. Anything other than posting that verse will simply be regarded as what I call an F³ formula - F[/b]ARCE, [b]F[/b]ALSE and [b]F[/b]ALLACY!

For a typical example take the contents of the both two sacred books. On many instances bible tells stories that were later found and proved incorrect, unscientific, fiction, etc and when compared side by side with that of the Qur'an the latter's found correct, scientific, based on historical facts etc. This does not stay here but also on matters about the God, His being, His messengers and their acts, etc.

Please don't humour or try to impress yourself. How 'scientific' is the Quranic statement that allah created [b]SEVEN earths?? Yes, the other things about God and the acts of His messengers are for another discussion as you said; but please tell me what is scientific about the fallacy of seven earths - did you ever check that?

You see, this is not the time and place for me to begin to engage you guys on any other arguments. I want to remain simply on the issues I pointed out to mr Experts - if he wants to provide the verses I am asking for, let him do so. If neither you nor him nor any other Muslim is able to provide a verse for that simple question, then please end the drama and let the fallacy of mr Experts stand as a testimony of its empty claims. The Quran did not come to "correct" the Bible; rather, it came to CONFIRM the Bible. period.

I'm afraid I lack sufficient time I should have to demonstrate these points to and other readers. But I'll see to it later, inshaAllah.

I would be glad to read you post me ANY VERSE where the Quran claims to have come to "correct" the Bible. Just one verse will do. If you don't have any such verses direct from allah's book, I'm afraid no lie from any Muslim scholar will be more authoritative than your Quran.

Post me that verse to answer my question - that is all I ask. Can you find such a verse? I am waiting.

Hmm . . . You are a deceptive man, Viaro. I like the way you write. But that beside, your argument hold no water, whatsoever.

One, I'll like you to stick to the thread subject, i.e. comparing Bible and Qur'an side by side to simply find which one is correct and which one is incorrect. Your grab has extended to that.

Two, I pin-point that I couldn't say this verse exactly say exactly what you are asking. But remember that content can represent part and vice-versa. If you believe in that then the case is virtually closed because many contents demonstrate that fact.

Three, I won't go into that repeated arguments of scientific proofs of Bible or Qur'an. I can recall Nuclearboy, Abuzola, Olabowale, et al have recently thrashed that out. And many more posts.

The count continues. . .

muhsin:

Hmm . . . You are a deceptive man, Viaro. I like the way you write. But that beside, your argument hold no water, whatsoever.

Ha, muhsin ... you could not post any verses from the Quran in answer to my question: so the last rope you want to hold now is accuse me of deception?!?

One, I'll like you to stick to the thread subject, i.e. comparing Bible and Qur'an side by side to simply find which one is correct and which one is incorrect. Your grab has extended to that.

What yapping is this? My previous comments focused on Mr Experts' plagiarism of Sabeel Ahmed's redundant arguments - I have outlined my concerns, presented evidence for them at least from the SAHIH hadiths, and left you and your friends very simple questions to find verses to counter my points. Have you done so? Why have you not done so in answer to my questions?

Two, I pin-point that I couldn't say this verse exactly say exactly what you are asking. But remember that content can represent part and vice-versa. If you believe in that then the case is virtually closed because many contents demonstrate that fact.

Please stop making excuses. Either post the verses or just zip it.

Three, I won't go into that repeated arguments of scientific proofs of Bible or Qur'an. I can recall Nuclearboy, Abuzola, Olabowale, et al have recently thrashed that out. And many more posts.

Hehe ... nice try, dude. Your attempt to deviate from the points I highlighted didn't help - so you resort to what has been "thrashed out" previously, no?

Look, I'm not interested in distractions. My concerns were borne out in my previous replies to mr Experts - if you have clear verses from your Quran for his fallacies, post them. If otherwise, count your loss - it's not my problem.

muhsin:

Hmm . . . You are a deceptive man, Viaro. I like the way you write. But that beside, your argument hold no water, whatsoever.

One, I'll like you to stick to the thread subject, i.e. comparing Bible and Qur'an side by side to simply find which one is correct and which one is incorrect. Your grab has extended to that.

Two, I pin-point that I couldn't say this verse exactly say exactly what you are asking. But remember that content can represent part and vice-versa. If you believe in that then the case is virtually closed because many contents demonstrate that fact.

Three, I won't go into that repeated arguments of scientific proofs of Bible or Qur'an. I can recall Nuclearboy, Abuzola, Olabowale, et al have recently thrashed that out. And many more posts.

The count continues. . .

Is there any religious person that can be more deceptive like mohammad the promiscuous prophet?

toba:

Is there any religious person that can be more deceptive like mohammad the promiscuous prophet?

^^ lol, toba . . . let's leave out direct castigations on the person of Muhammad and just discuss mr Experts' plagiarised network.

viaro:

^^ lol, toba . . . let's leave out direct castigations on the person of Muhammad and just discuss mr Experts' plagiarised network.

no problem.

I added a voice to ur request and none of the moslems have been able to oblige u answers. Im sorry for them

toba:

Is there any religious person that can be more deceptive like mohammad the promiscuous prophet?

toba:

no problem.

I added a voice to your request and none of the moslems have been able to oblige u answers. Im sorry for them

Must you comment?

muhsin:

Must you comment?

yes i must. Thats y i have access to internet. I ve not made comments yet on ur quran

Let me skip your everything but answer one thing, i.e. where the Qur'an correct bible but in context, which is what I mentioned initially.

On the Godhead:

Qur'an corrects the notion held (and still hold) by Christians, which is contained in their Bible that, God is One and not three or one of the three.

On the Deity of Jesus Christ:

Islam considers Jesus a prophet just like Moses, Abraham, and Noah, which is not what Bible says: Jesus is more than a prophet but a god.

On Salvation:

Bible teaches man is born with a sin; Qur'an rejects the doctrine of anything like original sin.


. . .just three for now. . .

muhsin:

Let me skip your everything but answer one thing, i.e. where the Qur'an correct bible but in context, which is what I mentioned initially.

On the Godhead:

Qur'an corrects the notion held (and still hold) by Christians, which is contained in their Bible that, God is One and not three or one of the three.

On the Deity of Jesus Christ:

Islam considers Jesus a prophet just like Moses, Abraham, and Noah, which is not what Bible says: Jesus is more than a prophet but a god.

On Salvation:

Bible teaches man is born with a sin; Qur'an rejects the doctrine of anything like original sin.


. . .just three for now. . .

While the devout Muslim believes like u Muhsin with all of his heart that the rituals and doctrines of Islam are entirely heavenly in origin and thus cannot have any earthly sources, Middle East scholars have demonstrated beyond all doubt that every ritual and belief in Islam can be traced back to pre-Islamic Arabian culture.

In other words Muhammad did not preach anything new. Everything he taught had been believed and practiced in Arabia long before he was ever born. Even the idea of "only one God" was borrowed from the Jews and the Christians.

Ur Quran Muhsin repeats fanciful Arabian fables as if they were true.

* "Arabic legends about the fabulous jinns fill its pages" (G.G. Pfander, Balance of Truth, pp. 283).
* "The story of the she-camel who leapt out of a rock and became a prophet was known long before Muhammad" (Suras 7:73-77,85; 91:14; 54:29).
* The story of an entire village of people who were turned into apes because they broke the sabbath by fishing was a popular legend in Muhammad's day (Suras 2:65; 7:163-166).
* The gushing 12 springs story found in Sura 2:60 comes from pre-Islamic legends.
* In what is called the "Rip Van Winkle" story, seven men and their animals slept for 309 years in a cave and then woke up perfectly fine (Sura 18:9-26)! This legend is found in Greek and Christian fables as well as Arabian lore.
* The fable of the pieces of four dead, cut-up birds getting up and flying was well known in Muhammad's time (Sura 2:260).
* It is also clear that Muhammad used such pre-Islamic literature as the Saba Moallaqat of Imra'ul Cays in his composition of Suras 21:96; 29:31,46; 37:59; 54:1, and 93:1.

^^^ Source?

muhsin:

^^^ Source?

Carefully read my post. Note that in front of some lines, u will find names and pages of where i took my posting from eg (G.G. Pfander, Balance of Truth, pp. 283).

U re online go to google and request for the pages

@muhsin,

Although toba in his own right has answered you, I on the other hand will not allow you drag this into distractions about Biblical doctrines. Islam has no bearing on Biblical doctrines, and it is hopeless for the Muslim to try to use his quran to argue against the Bible. Therefore, I would rather repeat the fact that you are running away from the things I commented on and arguing what I did not post on, nor what appears on the OP.

Why do Muslims like to be so dubious like what you want to do here, muhsin? When you chaps behave this way, I lose all respect for you and shake my head in pity at your tendency to confirm that Muslims champion nothing other than deception and lying. This is why you SKIP EVERYTHING I have argued and ran off to something else:

muhsin:

Let me skip your everything but answer one thing, i.e. where the Qur'an correct bible but in context, which is what I mentioned initially.

This is a disgraceful twist of events that is aptly called 'Muslim deceptive distraction' (mdd). Dude, why are you ignoring the FACT of the points I raised so you can twist things to become entirely what I did not comment on?

Please muhsin, please post me the verse for the Muslim LIE that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible. Where is that verse?

If you don't have the verse to show, it's either you're happy to keep lying as a Muslim - or at least deny what the Quran says. The Quran simply said that it came to CONFIRM the Bible, not "correct" it. Is that true or false? Please post me the verse - that is all I ask. WHERE IS THAT VERSE, muhsin?


If I wanted to follow the same trend of skipping whatever you have posted and just remain on one question, I could as well ask you to answer me one simple question that does not appear in the OP: the Quran claims that Allah created SEVEN earths (Quran 65:12): since we know of only one earth, please tell me where the other SIX EARTHS are located? WHERE are Allah's remaining SIX EARTHS, muhsin??

I bet you would have no answer for that.

But this is not about comparing the Bible alongside the Quran. The OP discusses the "Memorization" and writing of the quran in its entirety - it does not discuss Biblical doctrines of the Godhead, the Deity of Christ, salvation, etc. Why then are you trying so hard to detract from the OP and bring in irrelevant subjects, dubious muhsin?

My man, I am waiting for answers to the questions I asked in regards to the OP:

viaro: My questions are simple enough:

(1)    please post me the verse to verify the claim made by mr experts that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible. I have posted a few verses that I have read in the Quran saying that it came to CONFIRM the Bible - without arguing anything! So please post me the verses that say that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible, without dribbling or arguing anything. No excuses please - SIMPLY POST THE VERSE FROM THE QURAN. Period.

(2)    I gave specific examples of verses which Muslims in Muhammad's time were reciting as PART OF THE REVEALED verses from Allah, verses which no one had any authority to excuse away from the Quran:
      ¬  "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Stoning"
      ¬  "The Cancelled Verse(s) of the Martyrs of Badr"
      ¬   "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Suckling"
What those verses contained are found in the SAHIH hadiths I quoted; but they are NOT found ANYWHERE in the Quran. If you have any Quran verses where they are found, please just simply post the verses and let's read for ourselves. We are not interested in any arguments and excuses you make - ONLY POST THE VERSES and let us read for ourselves. Period.

If you don't have any of those verses to post, don't bore us with your usual Muslim excuses.

still waiting for your reply on this b4 i proceed

experts:

still waiting for your reply on this b4 i proceed

Whose reply are u waiting for? Time waits for no one.If u have the gouhts fire from all cylinders.

experts:

still waiting for your reply on this b4 i proceed

Whose reply are u waiting for? Time waits for no one.If u have the gouhts fire from all cylinders.

moderator why did you delete my post?

experts:

still waiting for your reply on this b4 i proceed

What reply are you waiting for? Did you attend to my questions?

experts:

moderator why did you delete my post?

I don't think moderators deleted your posts. You should learn to discuss matters instead of PLAGIARISING other people's encyclopedia-length redundant arguments that are not answering any questions already addressed!

Go and copy from your muslim sites again and watch the spambot eat your post!


Please address these:

viaro: My questions are simple enough:

(1)    please post me the verse to verify the claim made by mr experts that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible. I have posted a few verses that I have read in the Quran saying that it came to CONFIRM the Bible - without arguing anything! So please post me the verses that say that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible, without dribbling or arguing anything. No excuses please - SIMPLY POST THE VERSE FROM THE QURAN. Period.

(2)    I gave specific examples of verses which Muslims in Muhammad's time were reciting as PART OF THE REVEALED verses from Allah, verses which no one had any authority to excuse away from the Quran:
       ¬  "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Stoning"
       ¬  "The Cancelled Verse(s) of the Martyrs of Badr"
       ¬   "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Suckling"
What those verses contained are found in the SAHIH hadiths I quoted; but they are NOT found ANYWHERE in the Quran. If you have any Quran verses where they are found, please just simply post the verses and let's read for ourselves. We are not interested in any arguments and excuses you make - ONLY POST THE VERSES and let us read for ourselves. Period.

I don't think moderators deleted your posts. You should learn to discuss matters instead of PLAGIARISING other people's encyclopedia-length redundant arguments that are not answering any questions already addressed! Tongue

Go and copy from your muslim sites again and watch the spambot eat your post!


i hate when people conclude without knowing nothing about something,



Thanks to Babs & mushin for your wonderful contribution, jazakallahu khair.

My questions are simple enough:

(1) please post me the verse to verify the claim made by mr experts that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible. I have posted a few verses that I have read in the Quran saying that it came to CONFIRM the Bible - without arguing anything! So please post me the verses that say that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible, without dribbling or arguing anything. No excuses please - SIMPLY POST THE VERSE FROM THE QURAN. Period.

(2) I gave specific examples of verses which Muslims in Muhammad's time were reciting as PART OF THE REVEALED verses from Allah, verses which no one had any authority to excuse away from the Quran:
¬ "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Stoning"
¬ "The Cancelled Verse(s) of the Martyrs of Badr"
¬ "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Suckling"
What those verses contained are found in the SAHIH hadiths I quoted; but they are NOT found ANYWHERE in the Quran. If you have any Quran verses where they are found, please just simply post the verses and let's read for ourselves. We are not interested in any arguments and excuses you make - ONLY POST THE VERSES and let us read for ourselves. Period.

It is true that there is no verse in the Holy Qur'an that stated that the Qur'an came to correct the bible,

what we have in the Qur'an is that it came to confirm the bible, yes.

But let me ask you, when i say, i have come to confirm your work, that does not mean i have come to accept it, it means i have come to check the authenticity of your work. i.e to asses the quality of the work and in case of any error, to correct it.

that is the interpretation of the confirmation said by the Qur'anic verses.

now, to establish my fact and see if my interpretation of the confirmation said by the Qur'an is genuine, i have bellow.

Meticulously and precisely the Quran corrects the Bible.

1. Bible, Koran, and the Prophets
2.The Divine Character of God
3. Evolution of humans
4. The cow and the guilty Priests
5. The flood of Noah
6. Prophet Joseph’s dream
7. Adam or Eve to blame ?
8. Isaac or Ishmael sacrificed ?
9. Kings and Pharaohs in Egypt


Bible, Koran, and the Prophets
The Biblical concept of prophethood is also radically different from the one
presented in the Qur'ân. Whereas the Qur'ân depicts prophets as the best model
of piety and moral uprightness,
Qur'ân 21:27 and 22:52, in the Biblical version almost all prophets seem to
commit major sins in faith and moral standing.
Some of the shameful deeds attributed to prophets include;
Aaron's idol worship; [Exo. 32:2]
”
Solomon’s inclination towards idolatry [1 Kings 11:4].

The drunken Lot committed incest with his daughters [Gen. 19:30]


David was not only a peeping Tom, but actually committed adultery with the
wife of Uriah, and had her husband killed [2.Sam. 11:1]
“
Judah committed incest with his daughter-in-law [Gen. 38:15]
“
King David’s son rapes his sister [2.Sam. 13:1]
“
Then David’s sons kill each other because of
this rape [2.Sam. 22-39]
In conclusion, all the adultery and murder between righteous men as listed in
the Bible is not present in the Quran, suggesting that perhaps a jealous tribe
wrote such stories about the other, certainly Lot or his daughters would not
document such a thing, so did it really happen?


What Does the Bible Say about God ?
The question to Christians is simple, do you choose as a Protector, "a God
that needs to Rest", or a "God that does Not need Rest".
{Exo. 31:17} "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth and on the
seventh day he Rested, and was Refreshed."
{Qur’an 50:38} "We created the heavens and the earth and all between them
in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch us."
Humans are imperfect, God throughout the Bible is given human traits,
unlike a Supreme Being. Do the Christians choose a God that Forgets over a
God that does Not make errors.
{Psalm 13:1} "How long will You Forget me, O Lord"
{Qur’an 20:52} "My Lord Never Errs, Nor Forgets"
Do you Christians believe in a God that "Sires" children {i.e. David and
Jesus}, Who is God’s Christian "Wife", or does the Biblical God "Beget"
these children "without being married".
{Heb. 5:5} "God said to Jesus,’You are my son today I have begotten you"
*Also* {Psalm 2:7} "God said to David, ’You are my son today I have
begotten you" [K.J.V.]
{ Qur’an 112:1} "Say: He is Allah, The One; Allah, the Eternal Absolute; He
does Not Beget, Nor is He Begotten, and there is None Like unto Him."
Do you Christians believe in a God that "regrets", feels and
proclaims to be "mistaken" ?
[Gen. 6:6] And the Lord was sorry that he made man on the earth,
and it grieved him to his heart. [he said]: [Gen 6:7] "For I am
sorry that I have made them."
To my Christian Brothers and Sisters, Judge both Books Critically, Look at
the Defense for Both and then choose the Right Path. Read the Qur’an, give
your Soul a "Fair Trial"

The Bible, The Quran, and Evolution

God gives all humans a reason to believe, and in the case of the Qur’an, the
reason was given over 1,400 years ago, before the scientists even knew what
to believe in.
Here we will compare the Bible, and the Qur’an to the popular theory of
evolution.

Astronomers today have powerful telescopes and have studied the formation
of our neighboring galaxies. From the studies we learned that galaxies are
formed from the condensation of spiraling celestial "mists."
This is confirmed in the Qur’an 14 centuries before this was discovered by
the " Hubble Space telescope" in 1925.
"Then He settled/equilibrated unto the firmament(sky) when it was
smoke, " ( Qur’an 41:11.
We know from both scientists and the Qur’an that in the beginning, there
was nothing in liquid or solid state, only in gaseous state yet the Bible is not
in agreement on this matter;
Genesis 1:1-2 (Revised Standard Version) "In the beginning God created the
heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness
was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the
face of the waters."
The next verse in the Bible shows a chronological inconsistency. The Bible
claims that there was light in the Universe on the first day;
"And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. And God saw that
the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God
called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was
evening and there was morning, one day." Genesis 1:3-5.
Yet then we see in Genesis 1:14, that the sun was not created until the 4th
day;
Scientists today know that light is a reaction to other stars in the Universe,
and without the sun, (which was not created until the fourth day according to
the Bible) than it is simply wrong to claim there was light when the sun was
not yet created.
Again we see this discrepancy is not in the Qur’an, the Qur’an confirms what
scientists of today agree upon, which is that the elements in the Universe
were created at once, this is known as the "Big Bang theory":
"Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were fused then
We ripped them asunder, " Al-Anbia(21):30.
There are some truths in the Bible, but also some obvious disagreement with
scientifical facts. Another example is the growth of plant life on earth.
The Bible says that on the third day;
"And God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and
fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind,
upon the earth." And it was so." (Genesis 1:11)
The problem is that God created the Sun on the 4th day (Genesis 1:14) and
complex seed formation can not occur without sunlight.
In contrast to the Old Testament, the Qur’an does not use a day by day
chronological description (i.e. on the first day, second day, third day , ),
instead the Qur’an uses concise terms which do not prompt objections.
The Qur’an clarifies that the food appeared two eons after the light was in
the Heavens:
"And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He blessed therein and
made therein its foods, in four periods: alike for the seekers." {Qur’an
41:10}
Verses 41:11 and 12 in the Qur’an, use the adverbs "thummah" and "fa"
which imply series of events. Neither of these two, however, are used in
verse 10 (the only one which mentions four periods) which instead uses the
adverb "wa" implying parallel, or "overlapping" actions.
Therefore, we see the total time to complete the mountain formation and
food growth is 4 periods. Within 2 of these four periods, we see light .
"So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every
heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and
(made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing." (Holy
Qur’an 4:12)
The following Verses in the Holy Qur’an also support the Theory of
Evolution:
", We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(21:30)
"What ails you that you hope not towards Allah with dignity when he
created you by stages? , And Allah has caused you to grow as a growth
from earth." 71:13-14
"See they not how Allah produces creation, then reproduces it? Lo, for Allah
that is easy. Say (O Muhammad): Travel in the land and see how He
originated creation, then Allah brings forth the later growth. Lo, Allah is
able to do all things." 29:19-20
"Thy Lord is the Absolute, the Lord of Mercy. If He will, He can remove
you and can cause what He will to follow after you, even as He raised you
from the seed of other folk. Lo! that which ye are promised will surely come
to pass, and ye cannot escape. Say ( O, Muhammad): O my people! Work
according to your power. Lo! I too am working. Thus ye will come to know
for which of us will be the happy sequel. Lo! The wrongdoers will not be
successful" 6:134-136
"He produces creation and then reproduces it, that He may reward those who
believe and do good works with equity." 10:4 and 27:64
The following verses in the Bible show some divergence when compared to
other Bible verses regarding evolution;
GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.
GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
In conclusion, we see that the Qur’an resurrects the Bible, bringing back
Divine Scripture beyond the level of learned scientists. Scientists can now
look up to the Message of God rather than look down to it as is done with
the Bible.

The cow and the guilty Priests
In the Quran {2:70} it relates how the Jews request Moses to elaborate on
the cow ritual, ( to the point of almost, non-compliance) with respect to
someone found dead within the
percents of a town. The Biblical reference is given as Deuteronomy 211-
9).
How the two accounts don’t match:

In Deuteronomy, the Bible records that Jews are forgiven for murder a
purely innocent man by simply killing a cow, this of course is a degradation
of human life, and the Bible editors may have been motivated to record the
story in this manner in order to alleviate the guilt off the Jewish people, the
Biblical story is also in line with how the Jews from Egypt thought the cow
was sacred and in this case, equal to the murder of a human life.
Whereas the Quranic edition preserves the preciousness of human life and
shows God as a Righteous Judge, as well as dispelling the divinity or
importance of the cow, just as the Quran dispels the divinity of Jesus:
Commentary on Quran 2:67-73:

A murder was committed among the Israelites in Moses’ time. The method
that God revealed to His prophet for identifying the killer was that a cow
should be sacrificed, and the dead man’s corpse struck with a piece of it. The
dead man would name the murderer. This novel method was chosen for
several reasons.

1. The Children of Israel had spent a long time in Egypt, and had been
influenced by Egyptian customs and culture. The practice of cow-worship,
for instance, had also been adopted by the Israelites, who had also come to
regard the cow as ‘sacred.’ The purpose of Almighty God was to remove
this misplaced veneration from their minds, and this murder was chosen as
the means: only by sacrificing a cow would the culprit come to light.

2. Another mistake that the Israelites had made was to destroy the simplicity
of divine religion by involving themselves in complicated theological
wrangling. They had to learn to interpret God’s commandments simply and
implement them immediately in a straightforward manner. This was another
lesson that was taught under the pretext of this murder case: if one engages
in hair-splitting efforts to define the exact scope of divine commandments,
one will only make things difficult for oneself; added conditions will serve
only to complicate the implementation of what had originally been a simple
commandment.

3. The third lesson of this case was that life after death is no less a reality
than life before death. Just as the dead corpse was revived, so every soul will
be raised up in the Hereafter and given new life.
Therefore in the Bible, the murderer got away from God, God did not know
who the murderer was to the point that the Bible claims God orders a cow
killed because the murderer was unknown, while in the Quran, the murderer
was revealed by God, which book is from God?

In other parts of the Bible, God finds the guilty, but when it is the Jewish
priests who are the suspects, all of the sudden God in the Bible does not
know ?
Hosea 6:8-9 Gilead is a city of evildoers, tracked with blood. As robbers lie
in wait for a man, so the priests are banded together; they murder on the way
to Shechem, yea, they commit villainy."
Can a cow be used to forgive murder ?
"No man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for
him" (Psalms 49:7).
"So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the
land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on
it, except by the blood of him who has shed it!" (Numbers 35:33).

Once again the Holy Quran corrects a problem in the Bible.
In one part of the Bible, it states -no ransom- will be accepted for blood
spilled (EXCEPT) the killer himself.
Then the priests change the law of God by claiming God will accept a cow
in place of the murderer.

Another part of this chapter that is corrected is "accountability"
All of Israel is assumed saved with the cow’s blood, but God in earlier
chapters clarifies that everyone is responsible for their own sins.
How soon after the murder did they kill the cow in the Bible?
We see in the previous chapter, that a murderer must be found, sought after,
and punished;

Deuteronomy 19;11 "But if any man hates his neighbor, and lies in wait for
him, and attacks him, and wounds him mortally so that he dies, and the man
flees into one of these cities, 12 then the elders of his city shall send and
fetch him from there, and hand him over to the avenger of blood, so that he
may die. 13 Your eye shall not pity him, but you shall purge the guilt of
innocent blood from Israel, so that it may be well with you."
so we have a tension between the earlier and later chapter in the Bible,
where as one verse says the murderer can hide, while the earlier says there is
no refuge in cities.

The later chapter (Deuteronomy 21) saying when you can’t find the suspect,
kill a cow (by the way it was quoted, immediately after finding the body)
where as the earlier chapter (Deuteronomy 19) says go to another town, and
"fetch" the suspect (which could take weeks) so obviously the priests were
feeling some guilt and wanted to get rid of the that guilt asap.
The priests knew that they were vulnerable to the death penalty for
involvement in murder; Exodus 21:14 "However, if someone deliberately
attacks and kills another person, then the slayer must be dragged even from
my altar and put to death."

Therefore priests did not want an investigation, so the Judaic priests took a
previous law regarding cows and cleansing and changed it to hide the guilt;
The alteration of the cleansing cow law;
In Numbers 19:11 "He who touches the dead body of any person shall be
unclean seven days;

12 he shall cleanse him self with the water on the third
day and on the seventh day, and so be clean; but if he does not cleanse
himself on the third day and on the seventh day, he will not become clean.

13 Whoever touches a dead person, the body of any man who has died, and
does not cleanse himself, defiles the tabernacle of the LORD, and that
person shall be cut off from Israel; because the water for impurity was not
thrown upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is still on him. "
what was first a law to kill a cow and use it’s ashes mixed with water to
clean the contamination of touching a dead man, now has been escalated and
elevated by the priests to be a law to remove the guilt of murder. Something
to be done immediately upon finding the dead body according to the priests
without an investigation as previously ordered in other chapters.
But regardless of their attempts to hide or suppress the guilt, God knows
who the guilty are and demonstrates in the Bible, and later clarified in the
Quran that the guilty can not hide from God;
Isaiah 26:21Look! The LORD is coming from heaven to punish the people
of the earth for their sins. The earth will no longer hide those who have been
murdered. They will be brought out for all to see. (Quran 2:70)
Jeremiah 2: 34 Your clothing is stained with the blood of the innocent and
the poor. You killed them even though they didn’t break into your houses! 35
And yet you say, ’I haven’t done anything wrong. Surely he isn’t angry with
me!’ Now I will punish you severely because you claim you have not
sinned."
Isaiah 1:1:21See how Jerusalem, once so faithful, has become a love-peddler.
Once the home of justice and righteousness, she is now filled with
murderers.
and God knows best.
In conclusion:
1. suspicion automatically falls on the priests for:
a) wanting an immediate sacrifice to remove the guilt
b) ransom is used for blood spilled, when the law forbids such ransoms for
murder
c) not pursuing an investigation
d) altering the previous cow cleansing law to include removal of the guilt of
murder on Israel rather than just the uncleanness of touching a dead body
(Num 19:11).
2. we see the tensions in the Bible were corrected by the Quran because:
a) other chapters order an investigation and search for the murderer
b) other chapters indicate ransom can not be used for spilled blood
c) other chapters indicate that murderers can not hide from God
d) the Quran shows how the priests tried avoiding performing the ritual to
find the guilty, further showing how they tried to hide their guilt as God also
revealed in the Bible (Jeremiah 2: 34, Isaiah 1:1:21, etc.)
The Bible’s ritual gives the cow a Christian Christ like feature atonement
power, which no one has such a power except for God, no living creature
can take the sin of another.
Hence the killing of a cow to remove the suspicion of murder and cleanse
Israel of responsibility of the murder is an anomaly when taking into
consideration the context of the Bible. This uncharacteristic ritual was
corrected in the Quran by demonstrating that our Righteous God knows,
finds, and punishes the guilty.



Noah’s flood (Global or Local) ?
the Holy Qur’an saves the revelations within the Bible. This demonstrated in
the story of Noah’s Flood.
When seen in the light of modern knowledge, the Biblical description of the
Flood as a Whole is unacceptable for the following reasons:
a) The Old Testament describes the Flood as a event which covered the
entire world.
b) The Flood of Noah described in the Bible is estimated to a date in which a
international Flood could not have occurred
The Sacerdotal narration states quite precisely that the Flood took place
when Noah was 600 years old. According to the genealogies in chapter 5 of
Genesis.
When we relate this to the age of Adam along with the age of Abraham in
the Bible (Genesis 11: 10-32) ,
Knowledge of history during this time period would show it was a time of
prosperity with civilizations such as Egyptian’s Eleventh Dynasty and
Babylonia’s Third Dynasty at your in which we know for certain there were no
breaks in these civilizations. Therefore to make such a claim that everything
on earth was destroyed as the Bible claims (Genesis 7:21) is unsupported.
On the other hand, the Qur’an gives general details which do not promote
any criticisms from a historical point of view.
In The Qur’an 11:25-49, Sura 71, and 26: 105-115, we see God inflicted on
communities guilty of gravely infringing His Commandments. Whereas the
Bible describes a universal Flood intended to punish ungodly humanity as a
whole.
The Qur’an, in contrast, mentions several punishments inflicted on certain
specifically defined communities. This is viewed in 25: 35-39,
"We gave Moses the Scripture and appointed his brother Aaron with him as
vizier. We said: Go to the people who have denied Our signs. We destroyed
them completely. When the people of Noah denied the Messengers, We
drowned them and We made of them a sign for mankind. (We destroyed the
tribes) of Ad and Tamud, the companions of Rass and many generations
between them. We warned each of them by examples and We annihilated
them completely."
Sura 7, verses 59 to 93 contains a reminder of the punishments brought upon
Noah’s people, the Ad, the Tamud, Lot (Sodom) and Madian respectively.
This is the method of how the Qur’an saves the Bible in the narration of the
Flood of Noah, as in the case of Saving the Bible from Darwin, the case of
the Flood could also not be verified until centuries after the Prophet
Muhammad.


Prophet Joseph’s dream
Both, the Bible and the Quran mention Prophet Yusef’s (Joseph)
dream about the Sun and the Moon, and eleven stars bowin
to him.
"(Remember) when Yusuf (Joseph) said to his father: "O my
father! Verily, I saw (in a dream) eleven stars and the sun
and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves to me."
[Quran 12:4]
"Then he (Joseph) had another dream, and he told it to his
brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this
time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me."
[Genesis 37:9]
The Quran mentions this dream at the beginning of Chapter
Yusef, and shows how it was fulfilled at the end of the story.
The Bible, however, mentions the dream, but never shows that
it was a fulfilled prophecy. The reason why the Bible is not
able to fulfill this dream is due to an error, where the mother
of Yusef supposedly died when she bore Benyameen.
"And as she was having great difficulty in childbirth, the
midwife said to her, "Don’t be afraid, for you have another
son." As she breathed her last--for she was dying--she named
her son Ben-Oni. But his father named him Benjamin. So Rachel
died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem).
[Genesis 35:17-19]
Rachel is the mother of Joseph and Benjamin; she died two
chapters before Joseph had his dream.
The Quran never says that she died, the proof for that is at
the end of the story where Yusef raises both of his parents
on his throne.
"And he raised his parents to the throne and they fell down
before him prostrate. And he said: "O my father! This is the
interpretation of my dream aforetime! My Lord has made it come
true! He was indeed good to me, when He took me out of the prison,
and brought you (all here) out of the bedouin-life, after Shaitan
(Satan) had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Certainly, my
Lord is the Most Courteous and Kind unto whom He will. Truly He!
Only He is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise." [Quran 12:100]
Bible writers make a mistake when they claim that Joseph’s mother
died before the adventures of Joseph happened. The Quran ends this
kind of falsehood which might have been injected to the Bible
intentionally or unintentionally, and corrects the Bible:
1) Jospeh’s dream was a perfect prophecy.
2) His mother never died after giving birth to Benyameen.
3) The dream was fulfilled when his father (The Sun) and
his mother (the Moon) and his eleven brothers (stars)
bowed down to him.
Therefore, the Quran compliments and corrects the Bible
errors. Joseph’s dream is nothing but one of many other
examples.

Adam or Eve to blame ?
Everyone blames it on Eve. That is why there have been so much abuse and
disregard to the women in this world. That is why the women never
achieved full equality in rights with their fellow men, even if they were more
qualified.

Where does Eve, the mother of all the human beings stand in the Bible
compared to the Quran?
Just a quick study of the way the Bible treats Eve would explain the reason
behind all the problems that the women are suffering today.
Read Genesis 3:1-24
"When God asked Adam why did he eats from the forbidden tree, he
answered, according to the Bible. "And the man said, the WOMAN whom
thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the
Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the
woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Genesis 3:12-13
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed
and her seed; it shall bruise the head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Unto the woman he (God) said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy
conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall
be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." Genesis 3 : 15-16
As we can see here, Adam who committed the sin of eating from the
forbidden tree blame it on Eve ? And since then, men of all generations have
been blaming Eve for their sins. You see that God in the Bible is blaming
Eve and punishing her and all the Eves to come for the sin she did.
Does the Quran present the story of Adam and Eve differently?
If you read the same story in the Quran, (See 2:31-36),
(7:19-25),(20:115-123)you will find that God in the Quran :
(1) never blamed Eve for the sin that Adam committed . God spoke about
both Adam and Eve being duped by Satan, and never singled Eve out.
(2) Adam is held responsible for the sin he committed, he cannot blame it on
Eve, since he is as a responsible human being as she.
(3) Both Adam and Eve were punished for their sin by being ousted from
Paradise.
(4) Eve did not receive any harsher admonition than Adam and was not
threatened by misery for herself and all her female offsprings as the Bible
depicts.
(5) In Islam (Submission in English), all the stories about Eve being
responsible for getting Adam to sin can never be found in the Quran.


In summary, while the Bible blame it on Eve,
the Quran holds both Adam and Eve responsible for the sin of eating from
the forbidden tree. Islam (Submission) holds everyone responsible for
his/her sins. No blaming of parents, spouse, teachers, preachers, brothers,
sisters, friends, or any one is accepted.
"Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the lord of all
things ? NO SOUL BENEFITS EXCEPT FROM ITS OWN WORKS,
AND NONE BEARS THE BURDEN OF ANOTHER. Ultimately, you
return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."
6:164


Was Isaac or Ishmael to be sacrificed ?
As you know, Kedar is a descendent of Ishmael {Genesis 25:13}, and
Ishmael is the the base for the Family Tree of Prophet Muhammad through
Kedar.
An important Fact that I would like you to observe now is how the scribes
switched names to illegitimize Ishmael.
The scribes and commentators say that Ishmael is not a legitimate son of
Abraham and therefore the covenant was only with Isaac.
Now I will show you in the Scripture that it was Really Ishmael who was to
be sacrificed and the covenant was first done with Ishmael and Ishmael was
a legitimate son of Abraham even after Abraham’s death.
1. The covenant was first made with Abraham and Ishmael;
Genesis 17:10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and
you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be
circumcised.
Genesis 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy
money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh
for an everlasting covenant.
Note:-
2. It was really Ishmael and not Isaac who was going to be sacrificed and the
Jewish scribes because of vanity, switched the names;
Genesis 16:16 "and Abram [is] a son of eighty and six years in Hagar’s
bearing Ishmael to Abram."
Who’s son? Abraham’s "son". Now as far as the sacrifice is concerned,
Genesis 17:24 "Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was
circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin."
That makes Abraham’s son Ishmael 13, how old is Isaac at this time?
Genesis 21:5 "Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was
born to him."
that means during the circumcision/sacrifice, Abraham’s only "begotten" son
is Ishmael and not Isaac as the Bible says.
KJV Hebrews 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up
Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten
son,"
Therefore we see that Isaac was not the only son, as a matter of fact, Isaac
was not even born yet and Abraham’s Only begotten son was Ishmael.
Therefore further confirming the Legitimacy of Prophet Muhammad which
God says I will make great Nations from Ishmael.
Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed
him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve
princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
3. Ishmael was a legitimate son even after Abraham died;
Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian,
after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her
husband Abram to be his wife."
Genesis 25:9 "Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him (Abraham) in
*the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite,
facing Mamre,"
Genesis 25:12 "Now these are the records of the generations of *Ishmael,
Abraham’s son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah’s maid, bore to Abraham;"

experts:

i hate when people conclude without knowing nothing about something,

I drew my conclusions based on what I know - that you plagiarised Sabeel Ahmed's redundant arguements and came here pretending it was your own! I left you links to check for facts in post #8 that your plagiarised article belonged to Sabeel Ahmed - are you the same person as Sabeel Ahmed? So what is it that we don't know already - tell us?

It is true that there is no verse in the Holy Qur'an that stated that the Qur'an came to correct the bible,

Good. Next time try not to lie in a public forum - such shameless lying is why people are very weary of Muslims arguing trash that they have nothing to back up their statements.

what we have in the Qur'an is that it came to confirm the bible, yes.

Very good. I was waiting to see how you would have denied that fact. Now if the Quran came to CONFIRM the Bible, why are folks like muhsin bent on arguing further trash and sweating on nothing? The way you guys try to cheat your own selves is simply golden!

But let me ask you, when i say, i have come to confirm your work, that does not mean i have come to accept it, it means i have come to check the authenticity of your work. i.e to asses the quality of the work and in case of any error, to correct it.

that is the interpretation of the confirmation said by the Qur'anic verses.

Rubbish! The Quran did not say that it came to "check" the Bible; nor does it say it came to "asses" the quality of the Bible; nor did it claim that it came "to correct it"... you're still bent on deceiving yourself by arguing that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible, even after agreeing that the same Quran did not make any such claims?!? You're not such an "expert" at continuing this deceit in your posts, you know?

This is why after all is said and done, I noted that in post #36 that 'The Quran did not argue in one instant to have come to "correct" any line in the Bible - it is Muslims who want to force themselves to believe that lie that keep crying out repeatedly that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible' - and you're one of such Muslims forcing that lie upon yourself.

But let me help you:

The Quran asserts that it came to CONFIRM the Bible - and you agree with that, no problem. From the Concise English Dictionary, the word 'CONFIRM' has the following meanings:

      1. establish or strengthen as with new evidence or facts
      2. strengthen or make more firm
      3. make more firm
      4. support a person for a position
      5. administer the rite of confirmation to

Just about the same meanings appear for the word 'confirm' in the Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, and several others. Besides, not in one instant does any dictionary changes the meaning of the word 'confirm' as you have twisted it to mean in order for you to dribble in your dubious meaning.

now, to establish my fact and see if my interpretation of the confirmation said by the Qur'an is genuine, i have bellow.

That was not your interpretation - you asserted an obviously convoluted LIE that the Quran came to correct the Bible whereas you know very well that is not what the Quran claims. Unless you want us to believe that it is alright for Muslims to lie for the Quran, then your efforts to keep deceiving yourself here does not count at all.

LIE #1.

Meticulously and precisely the Quran corrects the Bible.

On on the contrary, the Quran itself claims that it came to CONFIRM the Bible (see the quotes in post #10).

Whereas the Qur'ân depicts prophets as the best model of piety and moral uprightness,
Qur'ân 21:27 and 22:52, in the Biblical version almost all prophets seem to commit major sins in faith and moral standing.

This is where you disqualify your beloved muhammad - he was a major sinner and he said so both in the Hadiths and the Quran. Therefore, your Quran does not "correct" the Bible but absolutely CONFIRMS it!

Muhammad's sinning:

      Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 75, Number 319:
      Narrated Abu Huraira:
      I heard Allah's Apostle saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah
      and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."

Which one of the Biblical prophets was sinning and repenting MORE THAN seventy times a day, mr experts?

What Does the Bible Say about God ?
The question to Christians is simple, do you choose as a Protector, "a God
that needs to Rest", or a "God that does Not need Rest".

My answer is simple: I choose to worship God in the Biblical sense instead of an allah in Islam who sends all muslims to hellfire without rest.

Next?

experts:

The Bible, The Quran, and Evolution

God gives all humans a reason to believe, and in the case of the Qur’an, the reason was given over 1,400 years ago, before the scientists even knew what to believe in.

What new knowledge did the Quran bring into science 1400 years ago? It's been over 14 centuries and yet no Muslim scientist has been able to show us the seven earths that your Allah says he created - we know of only ONE EARTH. Show us the remaining six earths of allah's creation. Where are they?

Here we will compare the Bible, and the Qur’an to the popular theory of
evolution.

Astronomers today have powerful telescopes and have studied the formation of our neighboring galaxies. From the studies we learned that galaxies are formed from the condensation of spiraling celestial "mists." This is confirmed in the Qur’an 14 centuries before this was discovered by
the " Hubble Space telescope" in 1925.
"Then He settled/equilibrated unto the firmament(sky) when it was smoke, " ( Qur’an 41:11. We know from both scientists and the Qur’an that in the beginning, there was nothing in liquid or solid state, only in gaseous state yet the Bible is not in agreement on this matter;
Genesis 1:1-2 (Revised Standard Version) "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the
face of the waters."

First of all, mr Experts, do you mind not expertly lying in front of the camera in public? I quoted you that verse Quran 41:11 from a few other well respected translations -

YUSUFALI:
Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke:

PICKTHAL: Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke,

SHAKIR: Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor,

Form the above, the one question of that verse was NOT THE EARTH, but rather the sky. Although your various translations regard the sky as a vapor or smoke, that verse did not say that the heavens were actually a smoke/vapour in the beginning. Let us read it together with verses 10 and 12:

[list]

Quran 41:10-12, YusufAli -
¹⁰He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance). ¹¹Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience. ¹²So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge."

[/list]

This shows that even at the beginning, the EARTH was a SOLID piece in your Quran - that is why we read that the earth and the sky were to come together in verse 11. If they were in a gaseous state, please tell us how allah was adorning the lower firmaments/heavens/sky with lights in two days when the earth was ALREADY A SOLID entity?

You guys will go to any length to deceive yourselves on a Quran you know nothing about.

And by the way, cosmological sciences were well underway LONG BEFORE your claimed knowledge of 1400 years ago for the Quran trying to teach anything to scientists! Please take a look at History of Cosmology from the 6th Century BC from the History World. Back then and up to the present, people have known a whole lot about the universe and no one has ever claimed that there are SEVEN EARTHS anywhere in the Universe - it was your own Quran that claimed allah created SEVEN EARTHS and started making noise about teaching scientists what Muslims can't teach themselves! Where are the remaining six earths of Allah, mr Experts?

experts:

The cow and the guilty Priests
In the Quran {2:70} it relates how the Jews request Moses to elaborate on the cow ritual, ( to the point of almost, non-compliance) with respect to someone found dead within the
percents of a town. The Biblical reference is given as Deuteronomy 211-9).

How the two accounts don’t match:

In Deuteronomy, the Bible records that Jews are forgiven for murder a purely innocent man by simply killing a cow, this of course is a degradation of human life, and the Bible editors may have been motivated to record the story in this manner in order to alleviate the guilt off the Jewish people, the Biblical story is also in line with how the Jews from Egypt thought the cow was sacred and in this case, equal to the murder of a human life.

^^
Let me first address the above before I round the remaining up for you.

Quran 2:70 does not refer in any detail at all to the scenario in Deuteronomy 21:1-9. Of course, as a gullible Muslim you won't see that because you were too busy plagiarising other people's articles even where they do not make sense but pepper their arguments with shameless lies.

This is what Quran 2:70 says - "They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us what she is: To us are all heifers alike: We wish indeed for guidance, if Allah wills." But when you begin to ask what 'heifer' they are talking about, you see something else, especially when we read the surrounding verses together. The context presumably begins from verse 67 about Moses saying "Allah commands that ye sacrifice a heifer." Then it continues -

[list]verse 68 - They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us what (heifer) it is!" He said; "He says: The heifer should be neither too old nor too young, but of middling age. Now do what ye are commanded!"[/list]

[list]verse 69 - They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us Her colour." He said: "He says: A fawn-coloured heifer, pure and rich in tone, the admiration of beholders!"[/list]

[list]>> verse 70 - They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us what she is: To us are all heifers alike: We wish indeed for guidance, if Allah wills."[/list]

[list]verse 71 - He said: "He says: A heifer not trained to till the soil or water the fields; sound and without blemish." They said: "Now hast thou brought the truth." Then they offered her in sacrifice, but not with good-will.[/list]

It should be clear that the verses above from Quran chapter 2 have nothing to do with Deuteronomy chapter 21! So far all that have played out in the verses above are concerning what type of heifer/cow was to be sacrificed - and on and on Muhammad was telling his tales about the heifer: for colour, to whether it had tilled the soil or not, etc, etc.

However, from verse 72 there is a narration about a slain man concerning whom they had fallen into dispute among themselves. Read verse 73 - which depicts Allah saying that the people should "strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Why? Because by their doing so that was how allah wanted to raise the dead man back to life! Did it happen? Far from it - rather verse 74 says that the people's rejection of such a thing was deemed as 'hardness of heart'.

Now as regards Deuteronomy 21:1-9, the Jews were NOT accused of having murdered a man. Rather, it makes plain that it is possible that no one knew how the man died - "If one be found slain in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it, lying in the field, and it be not known who hath slain him ..." So when you claimed that "Jews are forgiven for murder (sic) a purely innocent man", you were fabricating another Muslim LIE.

Now, as I said before, you had PLAGIARISED that article from somewhere else and you don't have any arguments of your own! You don't even understand what you were stealing to repost here - the grammar is sickening, the flow is incoherent, and the sense trails off without showing anything of what it asserts - not to even mention that it was claiming things which are not true in historical and cosmological facts (eg., your lie that scientists did not know what to believe 1400 years ago; whereas they already understood there was ONE EARTH and not SEVEN EARTHS as the Quran claims).

Before you bite your chest, I stand by my assertion that our arguments are plagiarised from Muslim sources. It is a PDF document where the author appears to be nameless - try the following sources:

1. TheStraightPath (pdf)

2. JewsForAllah (pdf)

After plagiarising your redundant arguments, please come forward and answer the questions I raised concerning the first plagiarised work from Sabeel Ahmed in the OP:

viaro: (2) I gave specific examples of verses which Muslims in Muhammad's time were reciting as PART OF THE REVEALED verses from Allah, verses which no one had any authority to excuse away from the Quran:
¬ "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Stoning"
¬ "The Cancelled Verse(s) of the Martyrs of Badr"
¬ "The Missing Verse(s) of the Quran on Suckling"
What those verses contained are found in the SAHIH hadiths I quoted; but they are NOT found ANYWHERE in the Quran. If you have any Quran verses where they are found, please just simply post the verses and let's read for ourselves. We are not interested in any arguments and excuses you make - ONLY POST THE VERSES and let us read for ourselves. Period.

At least, you had to admit that there are no verses claiming that the Quran came at anytime to "correct" the Bible - worse than that the Quran makes fantastic claims that you have not been able to answer to (such as the claim that Allah created SEVEN EARTHS).

In the second case, I would like you to post any Quran verses for those which are identified as the MISSING and CANCELLED verses of the Quran. Sabeel was deceiving you and himself to argue that the Quran we have today was preserved in its entirety - that was a huge lie. The verses I outlined above are MISSING and nowhere found in the Quran. If you believe they are in the Quran, simply post them and let us read for ourselves. QED.

oh Mr, i wonder what you gain from lying,


i wouldn't use the same language you used against me because i no you are ignorant.

now,

according to you,

But let me help you:

The Quran asserts that it came to CONFIRM the Bible - and you agree with that, no problem. From the Concise English Dictionary, the word 'CONFIRM' has the following meanings:

1. establish or strengthen as with new evidence or facts
2. strengthen or make more firm
3. make more firm
4. support a person for a position
5. administer the rite of confirmation to


everybody can't be dull as you are,

Arabic language was used in the Qur'an not english.

here is what you lack

first we turn to the lexical data to see how the words saddaqa ("confirm" and muhaymin are defined.


Lexical Meaning

ha-Ya-Miim-Nun = to watch over, oversee, expand the wings (hen over their chickens), control. To be witness to, offer security and peace, protect, determine what is true. muhaimanun - guardian to watch and determine what is true and what is false witness, afforder of security and peace, controller and superintendent of all the affairs, protector.

Sad-Dal-Qaf = to be truthful, true, sincere, speak the truth, establish or confirm the truth of what another has said, verify, keep faith, observe a promise faithfully, fulfill, speak veraciously, hold anyone as trustworthy. sadaqa fi al-qitaali - to fight gallantly. tsaddaqa - to give alms. sidqun - truth, veracity, sincerity, soundness, excellence in a variety of different objects, salubrious and agreeable, favourable entrance, praise. saadiqun - one who is true and sincere, one who speaks the truth. saadiqah - perfect woman. sadaqat (pl. saduqaat) - dowry. siddiiq - person who is trustworthy, sincere. saddaqa - to confirm, verify, fulfil. asdaqu - more true.
so how is this different from my facts?

these above was derived from the arabic usage of the word used in the Qur'an,

English Muslim Versions

An examination of the various English translations of the Quran shows that most of them understand muhaymin to mean that the Quran not only testifies to the authority and preservation of the Holy Bible but also guards and protects it from corruption.

… confirmatory of previous Scriptures, and their safeguard… A.J. Arberry

… It confirms the Scriptures which came before it and stands as a guardian over it… N.J. Dawood

… confirming the earlier revelations, and preserving them (from change and corruption)… Ahmed Ali (*)

… confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety… Y. Ali

… confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it… Pickthall

… confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures)… Hilali-Khan

… confirming the Book before it, and a protector for it… Mufti Taqi Usmani

… verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it… Shakir

… and fulfilling that which was revealed before it in the Book, and as a guardian over it… Sher Ali

… confirming that which hath preceded it of the Book, and a guardian thereof. Abdul-Majid Daryabadi (*)

Contextual Meaning

Here is the verse in its immediate context:

Yet how will they make thee their judge seeing they have the Torah, wherein is God's judgment, then thereafter turn their backs? They are not believers. Surely We sent down the Torah, wherein IS guidance and light; thereby the Prophets who had surrendered themselves gave judgment for those of Jewry, as did the masters and the rabbis, following such portion of God's Book as they were given to keep and were witnesses to. So fear not men, but fear you Me; and sell not My signs for a little price. Whoso judges not according to what God has sent down - they are the unbelievers. And therein We prescribed for them: 'A life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds retaliation'; but whosoever forgoes it as a freewill offering, that shall be for him an expiation. Whoso judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the evildoers. And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina al-tawrati – lit., confirming that which is between his hands) and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein IS guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina al-tawrati – lit., confirming that which is between his hands), as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the ungodly. And We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, confirming the Book that was before it (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi mina alkitabi – lit., that which is between its hands of the Book), and assuring it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one of you We have appointed a right way and an open road. If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance. And judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, and beware of them lest they tempt thee away from any of what God has sent down to thee. But if they turn their backs, know that God desires only to smite them for some sin they have committed; surely, many men are ungodly. S. 5:43-49 Arberry

This is what we learn from the context of Q. 5:48

let me help you understand this,

The Qur'an agreed that it has come to confirm the bible, not authenticate it.


now i have a verse that tells you exactly what the Qur'an confirmation means.

"And unto you have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watch over it …, " (the Qur’an 5:48)

This emphasizes two main aspects of the Qur’an:

a) The Qur’an confirms those teachings or passages of previous scriptures which remained intact.

b) The Qur’an is the last, complete, authoritative and authentic revelation. It is the final arbiter and the only criterion to correct any inaccuracy or misinterpretation which might have occurred in the transmission of scriptures. It helps in discovering human additions to or interpolations of previous revelations, even as it reveals possible deletions which might have taken place through the centuries prior to its revelation (the Qur’an). Indeed one of the names of the Qur’an is al-Furqan (the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong, truth and falsehood).

It follows therefore that a Muslim has no reason to reject the essence of any passage in the Bible if such a passage is confirmed by the Qur’an. For example, we read in the New Testament a reiteration of one of the Ten Commandments:

"And Jesus answered him. The first of all commandments is hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29)

A Muslim who reads this passage in the Qur’an can find no objection to its essence. After all the Qur’an confirms:

"Say He is Allaah, the One and Only (God)" (The Qur’an 112:1)

Peace,

@experts,

experts:

oh Mr, i wonder what you gain from lying,

Where have I lied? If I were lying, I would gain nothing from it - but we have seen how many places you have tried to lie your way through and end up stuck on non-issues. Please deny again that you did not copy-and-paste all your arguments from other websites to post here? Was the OP not from Sabeel Ahmed? Were the other posts (#55 - #58 ) not the work of someone else as well which I have supported with links?

Can I ask why you keep running from website to website to PLAGIARISE other people's arguments a[b]s if they are your own[/b]?

It is quite shameful that you would be drawing on what others have said, then present them as your own, and then destroy your own effort - not to mention that up until now you have not answered my request about the missing and cancelled verses of your Quran!

The latest answer above ^^^ (post #62) is another plagiarised effort. Yes sir, it is! Deny it again and let's know that you do nothing better than championing deceit. Please mr. experts, if you have nothing to present on your own (because you actually do not have anything), then stop trying to entertain yourself with the adventures of stealing other people's arguments, okay?

---

Let me address the copy-and-paste post in your latest reply:

experts:

Arabic language was used in the Qur'an not english.

Please keep your ignorance to yourself. I did not argue that English was used in the arabic quran, so your statement up there is dumb! I posted verses from the English translations of the Quran (Yusuf Ali; Pickthal; Shakir) - if you have anything against them, go take it up with the Muslim translators, instead of sobbing here.

experts:

here is what you lack

first we turn to the lexical data to see how the words saddaqa ("confirm" and muhaymin are defined.

Lexical Meaning

ha-Ya-Miim-Nun = to watch over, oversee, expand the wings (hen over their chickens), control. To be witness to, offer security and peace, protect, determine what is true. muhaimanun - guardian to watch and determine what is true and what is false witness, afforder of security and peace, controller and superintendent of all the affairs, protector.

Sad-Dal-Qaf = to be truthful, true, sincere, speak the truth, establish or confirm the truth of what another has said, verify, keep faith, observe a promise faithfully, fulfill, speak veraciously, hold anyone as trustworthy. sadaqa fi al-qitaali - to fight gallantly. tsaddaqa - to give alms. sidqun - truth, veracity, sincerity, soundness, excellence in a variety of different objects, salubrious and agreeable, favourable entrance, praise. saadiqun - one who is true and sincere, one who speaks the truth. saadiqah - perfect woman. sadaqat (pl. saduqaat) - dowry. siddiiq - person who is trustworthy, sincere. saddaqa - to confirm, verify, fulfil. asdaqu - more true.
so how is this different from my facts?

. . . . . . >snipped<

Please end your misery. In all the above, no matter how you twist the lexical meaning of 'confirm', it still does not say that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible. The whole arguments can be seen from another website in an article by Sam Shamoun, where he notes that -

[list]As the readers can see, the general meaning of saddaqa is to confirm as true, to bear witness to, to verify. Muhaymin, however, can mean to determine whether something is true or false. Yet the use of both terms in the same verse makes it rather apparent that muhaymin cannot mean that the Quran determines which parts of the Holy Bible are false or have been corrupted. After all, Q. 5:48 states that the Muslim scripture confirms the Book which was between Muhammad’s hands. How, then, can it falsify a Scripture which it also confirms to be true and reliable?

The fact that muhaymin is coupled with the verb saddaqa leads us to conclude that its meaning in this particular verse is that the Muslim book guards/protects/safeguards/assures the Holy Bible. Admittedly, there is also another plausible meaning of the term which we will discuss shortly.[/list]

Not in one instance does it say that the Quran came to "correct" the Bible, so give up your deception dude.

experts:

these above was derived from the arabic usage of the word used in the Qur'an,

The arabic usage does not say anywhere that the Quran came to correct the Bible - rather, it says that the Quran came to CONFIRM the Bible. Period.


Now, in all your arguments, this is the same thing that I have been saying that you have just attested to - and thereby shooting yourself in the leg -

experts:
English Muslim Versions

An examination of the various English translations of the Quran shows that most of them understand muhaymin to mean that the Quran not only testifies to the authority and preservation of the Holy Bible but also guards and protects it from corruption.

Dude, read again what you quoted above - the English translations understand muhaymin to mean that the Quran testifies to the authority and preservation of the Holy Bible! Do you understand what that means? It does not mean at all that your Quran came to "correct" the Bible - NO> It says that even your English translators understand that the Quran is testifying to the AUTHORITY and PRESERVATION of the Holy Bible. I am quite satisfied by that, and there should not have been any further comment from you.