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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. (249165 Views)
Why Dont Yorubas Claim Istekiri, The Way Igbos Claim Ikwerre, Delta Igbo? / Delta Igbo,bendel Igbo,ikwerre Igbo,do They Really Matter To The Igbo Nation? / Who Is An Igbo/what Makes Someone An Igbo? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Nobody: 11:01pm On Sep 04, 2013 |
bigfrancis21: Thanks, brother! |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 11:04pm On Sep 04, 2013 |
Radoillo: By pointing out Nsukka and Ezza, etc, I was only trying to make a point that there are other Igbo groups who have been heavily influence by non-Igbo groups (like Ika was influenced by Benin) and yet are classified as Igbo. Putting Ezza and Nkanu and Ngwa under the Igbo generic umbrella, but keeping Ika outside it, is like saying the Lion, the Tiger and the Cheetah are Big Cats, but the leopard is not. The error isn't on your end. Trust me. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Idunobaehis(m): 1:39pm On Sep 05, 2013 |
Majority of Igbodo and Ekuoma people don't accept they are igbo. Both the elders and the youths. They proud of their Ika heritage and just like any other Ika group they have Bini origin. @agbontaen 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by bigfrancis21: 3:43pm On Sep 05, 2013 |
Idun'oba ehis: Its all about state boundary anyway. If Ika or Anioma land had been part of Anambra state since 1960, all these unnecessary identity issues wouldn't have been there. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Nobody: 5:19pm On Sep 05, 2013 |
bigfrancis21: True. If all Ukwa people had been included in Rivers State when that state was first created, they probably would have come up with their own ethnic seperatism by now. Even today, there are Ukwa people in Abia who want their territories to be transferred to Rivers State on the ground that (according to them) they have more cultural ties with the Ibani people of Rivers than with any of the groups in Abia state. Should that happen, it won't be long before another ethnic group would have been added to Nigeria's ethnic map. Ethnicity and identification are largely a political issue. The more I study those concepts the more I understand they have little or nothing to do with anthropological facts. 1 Like |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by AndreUweh(m): 12:27am On Sep 06, 2013 |
Radoillo:False, the Ukwa communities in Rivers state such as the Ndoki are clamouring to join their kits in Abia state. Not the other way round. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Nobody: 3:34pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
Andre Uweh: Some Ukwa people from Abia really wish they could join Rivers State. http://www.google.com/url?q=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NdokiUSA/message/851%3Fthreaded%3D1%26var%3D1%26p%3D5&sa=U&ei=E-cpUuKWIYnI0AXMwYCwCg&ved=0CA8QFjAE&usg=AFQjCNF26O3g1GG7NzsW-qqjKsk6yI18jQ |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 5:57pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
Radoillo: Yea, those Ndoki people in Abia wish they were in rivers state, i have a friend from Azumini, and had visited Azumini and Akanu ndoki, the locals wish to be in rivers, seeing as those ndoki people in Oyigbo seem to be better off than them, economically, as all the oil fields in Ndokiland is located in Ndoki rivers state. If all Ndoki people were put in rivers, we won't have Ndoki as part of igboland now, as they would have cut any link we have with them, and would have created ndoki ethnic nationality by now, just like Etche,Ogba had done. The ndoki in rivers can't declare ndoki ethnic nationality, even though that's what they want, because doing so will separate them from their brothers in Abia. Egbema people have the same dilemma as Ndoki, as they are spread between rivers and imo, hence they have no option but to stick with the igbo tag. Asa is in the same problem, being spread between Abia and rivers. The only igbo speaking groups in rivers state that are officially recognized as Igbo by the rivers state government, are Asa, Egbema and Ndoki, because of the reasons i had given before. 1 Like |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Afam4eva(m): 6:03pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
pazienza: I infered this from their facebook page. Majority of them prefer to be added to Rivers state and they're always fond of highlighting the fact that they have some Ijaw blood in them even though majority of them use the Igbo tag which i think may be discarded if they're added to Rivers state. The way i see this whole Igbo denial thing is that, people don't want to be associated with failure and that's the pure unadulterated truth. Igbos have achieved a lot as individuals but collectively, we've achieved almost nothing. The day Igbos start competing with the Malaysians and Singapore, Igbos won't be the ones inviting Ikwerres, Ogba etc. They will want to be part of the Igbo umbrella. That's even too far. Let's have an Igbo president first and you will see a tip of what i'm talking about. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 7:02pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
Afam4eva: Ndoki has no Ijaw blood in them. Yea, some of them inter married with ijaws and many of them with akwaibom people, all that was in times of the old, and was brought about by trade between the groups, but how does that translate to having ijaw blood in them, it doesn't make sense. The folks i met in Azumini didn't say anything about ijaw blood in them, their reason for wanting to be in rivers they said are purely economic and this is the truth. Though as time goes on, as is common with all these igbo denial stuff, stuffs like bini, ijaw and akwaibom ancestry will be projected as the main reason for their quest for ethnic status,and differences between them and other Igbo groups will be magnified, even though they know deep down their heart, that their motive is purely economic 1 Like |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 7:13pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
Radoillo, ethnicity is a social construct, very much connected with anthropological concepts and facts. Just because it is used as a political tool in Nigeria (crudely and unnecessarily) does not change that. 1 Like |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Nobody: 8:02pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: Radoillo, ethnicity is a social construct, very much connected with anthropological concepts and facts. Just because it is used a political tool in Nigeria (crudely and unnecessarily) does not change that. Anthropologically, Zulus and Ndebeles are one people. The geo-politics of Southern Africa makes them seperate ethnicities. Austrians of the pre-1934 saw themselves as ethnic Germans. Recent survey shows that most of them view themselves as culturally and linguistically distinct from Germans. Apparently they are trying to wash themselves free of Nazi sins: Again, politics. The Afrikaners of South Africa up till the 1940 spoke Dutch and were seen as South African Dutch. From then they developed their own nationalism and began to see their Dutch dialect as a distinct language, despite the fact that everyone can see plainly that its just a Dutch dialect. Politics. Politics plays a most important role in how people identify themselves. Only politics can explain why Omoku is not an Igbo community and Abiriba is. 1 Like |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 8:23pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
As for Ukwa and Rivers state, it is primarily some Ndoki who have expressed the desire. Asa on the other hand has maintained its stance alongside Ngwa. It also isn't all Ndoki who want to be cut into Rivers. There are those who are actively pushing to have Ndoki Rivers and Akwa Ibom brought into Abia. There are also those who favor a united Ndoki via the proposed Aba state. So opinions differ within Ndoki, and they even end up arguing these differences of opinion among themselves. Funny enough it is this same difference that made the balkanization of Ndoki into three states possible; during the time they were arguing among themselves over their pro-Ngwa and anti-Ngwa sentiments. 1 Like |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 9:08pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: As for Ukwa and Rivers state, it is primarily some Ndoki who have expressed the desire. Asa on the other hand has maintained its stance alongside Ngwa. It also isn't all Ndoki who want to be cut into Rivers. There are those who are actively pushing to have Ndoki Rivers and Akwa Ibom brought into Abia. There are also those who favor a united Ndoki via the proposed Aba state. No ndoki person prefers Abia to rivers, atleast not in this era,except few ndokis in Abia government, the average ndoki man wants to be part of the oil money flowing in rivers state, haha! Do u blame them, when Abia state under T.A represents failure, the roads in ndoki abia are bad, while their brothers in rivers have better roads and enjoy the abroad scholarship programme of rivers state. By the way Ndoki doesn't recognize kinship with ngwa,it's only Ngwa people that are always talking about this non existing kinship with Ndoki, Ndoki sees Ngwa as a hegemony that wants to annex her to increase ngwas numbers and land space. Ndoki is an an igbo subgroup just like Ngwa, her relaationship with Ngwa is just like the relationship between Ngwa and ohuhu groups in umuahia, which is the fact that both groups are neighbours and are sub groups of igbo, each with it's own unique dialect and cultures, Ngwa people should learn to respect and accept this fact. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 10:22pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
Pazienza, I doubt you are in the position to walk down this road with me. You know your knowledge of Ndoki and Ngwa is limited. So do not try to start what you cannot finish. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by AndreUweh(m): 10:46pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: As for Ukwa and Rivers state, it is primarily some Ndoki who have expressed the desire. Asa on the other hand has maintained its stance alongside Ngwa. It also isn't all Ndoki who want to be cut into Rivers. There are those who are actively pushing to have Ndoki Rivers and Akwa Ibom brought into Abia. There are also those who favor a united Ndoki via the proposed Aba state.Chinenye is right here. Am aware of the push of Ndịeze and politicians from Ndokị to be in the proposed Aba state. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Nobody: 11:00pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
Still on the 'Ndoki Question', this short discussion between a pro-Igbo identity Ndoki man and an anti-Igbo identity Ndoki man caught my interest: http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.republicreport.com/part-of-expression-of-reconciliation-was-the-swift-balkanization-of-biafraland-de-igbonization-of-igbo-town-names-in-the-oil-rich-capital-city-of-port-harcourt-barleycorn-vin-iheukwumere-oke/&sa=U&ei=x08qUvz4FKOt0QWM4YHAAQ&ved=0CBEQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNHM_y-gs9rWfSarpKIOFcRbDUY5Zw |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 9:38am On Sep 07, 2013 |
Andre Uweh: Ndieze and politicians are but minority, that have been obtaining crumbs from the Abia state government. The average Ndoki man knows that there is more to gain by being an indigene of rivers, and hence, they crave rivers state inclusion. I have spent some time in Ndoki area of abia, and a lot of time in Azumini in particular, so i am well aware of the sentiments of the locals there, when you have time, you can go to Ndoki Abia and find out yourself. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 9:40am On Sep 07, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: Pazienza, I doubt you are in the position to walk down this road with me. You know your knowledge of Ndoki and Ngwa is limited. So do not try to start what you cannot finish. My knowledge about Ndoki and Ngwa is vast enough for me to decipher that both groups are distinct igbo tribes with different dialect, culture and world view. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 11:34am On Sep 07, 2013 |
Radoillo: Politics plays a most important role in how people identify themselves. Only politics can explain why Omoku is not an Igbo community and Abiriba is. There is no denying that politics plays a role, but to qualify ethnic identities as solely being the product of politics is an oversimplification. You're essentially denying ethnic identities of the historical, cultural, and social contexts which birthed them. These context occur in different combinations and intensities and are only specific to a community in question. In other words, there can never be a one-dimensional/universal way of defining ethnic development. That is why they are called social constructs. You simply cannot attribute something that complex and group-specific to one 'universal' factor alone (in your case, politics). Bringing it back to my earlier point, ethnicity in Nigeria is a political tool. The development of nationalist identities such as 'Igbo', 'Ijaw', etc. attests to such. These nationalist identities can be summarized as politics, but we cannot turn around and justly provide the same summary about the contexts of those ethnic identities that constitute these nationalist identities. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 11:48am On Sep 07, 2013 |
pazienza: My knowledge about Ndoki and Ngwa is vast enough for me to decipher that both groups are distinct igbo tribes with different dialect, culture and world view. The difference in dialect between "Ndoki" speech and "Ngwa" speech is no different than the difference in dialect that can be found between two "Ngwa" speech communities. Likewise for culture and world view. Honestly, I could easily provide examples in all three respects, but that is not what this is about. This is not about "deciphering". This is about history. Now, do you honestly believe you are in a position to walk down this road with me? More importantly, do you really want to walk down the road with me? Does this your "vast knowledge" also include the precolonial socio-cultural structures, histories and interactions of the various communities within the Asa-Ndoki-Ngwa complex and are you willing to test this your vast knowledge with me? I'll say again, do not try to start what you cannot finish. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Nobody: 12:30pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: As someone who always keeps both ears open to learn whatever he can about the various igbo groups, their precolonial socio-cultural structures and speech varieties, I say "MAKE UNA WALK DOWN DAT ROAD!" *pen and paper at the ready* ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Abagworo(m): 1:45pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: I don't think his argument is about history but about present reality. I can attest to his stance on Ndoki fighting to free themselves from the erroneous Ngwa identity. Most outsiders like myself listen to Ndoki and Ngwa and hear the same dialect but Ndokis and even Asa try as much as possible to guard their "distinctness" from Ngwa. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 2:56pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
Abagworo: I don't think his argument is about history but about present reality. I can attest to his stance on Ndoki fighting to free themselves from the erroneous Ngwa identity. Most outsiders like myself listen to Ndoki and Ngwa and hear the same dialect but Ndokis and even Asa try as much as possible to guard their "distinctness" from Ngwa. I understand the basis for Pazienza's argument, being Ndoki's distinction as a group. No one is denying that Ndoki has earned some distinction, but that is not what this actually is about. This is about Pazienza apparently believing himself to be in a position to speak on the kinship (or according to him, lack thereof) between Ndoki and Ngwa, simply because Ndoki has earned some distinction. That is what this is actually about. If this were simply about Ndoki's distinction, the discussion would have long since ended. But it hasn't, because it isn't simply about distinction. It is about the relationship between communities in Ndoki and Ngwa. It is about kinship, and kinship is about history. Pazienza is going on like someone who wants to visit history. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 3:08pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: Take it or leave it, Ndoki dialect is totally, i mean totally different from Ngwa dialect, the difference is as big as the difference between Ngwa and any other neighbouring igbo tribe like Umuahia groups. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 3:10pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
Abagworo: If you listen to Ndoki and Ngwa and hear the same thing, then your vestibulocochlear nerve is malfunctioning, no insult is meant. The difference between the two dialects, is as clear as the difference between day and night. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 4:32pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
pazienza: Take it or leave it, Ndoki dialect is totally, i mean totally different from Ngwa dialect, the difference is as big as the difference between Ngwa and any other neighbouring igbo tribe like Umuahia groups. I am not fighting you on Ndoki dialectal distinctness. I am well aware of it, and I have highlighted it in detail several times here on NL. So, there is nothing to discuss in that respect, but that isn't enough for you. You seem to want to take it further by making claims on the kinship and precolonial history of the communities in the area; something you in all probability are unfamiliar with. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 7:14pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: Even though many break away igbo groups would want to deny i t for economic and political reasons,but the truth is that the precolonial history of all Igbo speaking groups are somewhat intertwined in a neighbour to neighbour kind of bond, it is not perculiar to Ngwa and Ndoki. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by Abagworo(m): 7:40pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
pazienza: They speak same language with little differences. Maybe an Ndoki or Ngwa could tell the differences but not me. Some parts of Umuahia, some Mbaise people and some parts of Etche(especially Omuma) also speak that same language that sounds same with Ngwa to me. Let's be real here. Its the same way I hear the same thing when Abiriba, Ohafia, Item, Nkporo, Edda, Alayi and Abam speak. They may have differences but only indigenes can tell. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 7:55pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
pazienza: Even though many break away igbo groups would want to deny i t for economic and political reasons,but the truth is that the precolonial history of all Igbo speaking groups are somewhat intertwined in a neighbour to neighbour kind of bond, it is not perculiar to Ngwa and Ndoki. Therein lies the issue. The precolonial history of Ndoki and Ngwa is not simply a neighbor-to-neighbor thing. There is more to the relationship between the various communities in this region. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by ChinenyeN(m): 8:18pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
Abagworo, Pazienza is talking about the archetypal "Ndoki"-type speech form, spoken primarily by Azumini, Abaki, Akirika, and Egberu. |
Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by pazienza(m): 9:01pm On Sep 07, 2013 |
ChinenyeN: Abagworo, Pazienza is talking about the archetypal "Ndoki"-type speech form, spoken primarily by Azumini, Abaki, Akirika, and Egberu. |
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