bigfrancis21:

. I understood your allegory perfectly well brother. Yea, some people don't read to understand the meaning of sentences well before jumping into conclusions. That doesn't mean you should become less cryptic in your writings. Keep it up. It spices up your essays.

Radoillo: By pointing out Nsukka and Ezza, etc, I was only trying to make a point that there are other Igbo groups who have been heavily influence by non-Igbo groups (like Ika was influenced by Benin) and yet are classified as Igbo. Putting Ezza and Nkanu and Ngwa under the Igbo generic umbrella, but keeping Ika outside it, is like saying the Lion, the Tiger and the Cheetah are Big Cats, but the leopard is not.

Maybe I should try making my comments a bit less cryptic. Seems lots of folks here don't get me most times.

Idun'oba ehis:
Majority of Igbodo and Ekuoma people don't accept they are igbo. Both the elders and the youths. They proud of their Ika heritage and just like any other Ika group they have Bini origin. @agbontaen

bigfrancis21:

Its all about state boundary anyway. If Ika or Anioma lamd had been part of Anambra state since 1960, all these unnecessary identity issues wouldn't have been there.

Radoillo:

True. If all Ukwa people had been included in Rivers State when that state was first created, they probably would have come up with their own ethnic seperatism by now. Even today, there are Ukwa people in Abia who want their territories to be transferred to Rivers State on the ground that (according to them) they have more cultural ties with the Ibani people of Rivers than with any of the groups in Abia state. Should that happen, it won't be long before another ethnic group would have been added to Nigeria's ethnic map.

Ethnicity and identification are largely a political issue. The more I study those concepts the more I understand they have little or nothing to do with anthropological facts.

Andre Uweh:
False, the Ukwa communities in Rivers state such as the Ndoki are clamouring to join their kits in Abia state. Not the other way round.

Radoillo:

Some Ukwa people from Abia really wish they could join Rivers State.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NdokiUSA/message/851%3Fthreaded%3D1%26var%3D1%26p%3D5&sa=U&ei=E-cpUuKWIYnI0AXMwYCwCg&ved=0CA8QFjAE&usg=AFQjCNF26O3g1GG7NzsW-qqjKsk6yI18jQ

pazienza:


Yea, those Ndoki people in Abia wish they were in rivers state, i have a friend from Azumini, and had visited Azumini and Akanu ndoki, the locals wish to be in rivers, seeing as those ndoki people in Oyigbo seem to be better off than them, economically, as all the oil fields in Ndokiland is located in Ndoki rivers state.


If all Ndoki people were put in rivers, we won't have Ndoki as part of igboland now, as they would have cut any link we have with them, and would have created ndoki ethnic nationality by now, just like Etche,Ogba had done.

The ndoki in rivers can't declare ndoki ethnic nationality, even though that's what they want, because doing so will separate them from their brothers in Abia. Egbema people have the same dilemma as Ndoki, as they are spread between rivers and imo, hence they have no option but to stick with the igbo tag. Asa is in the same problem, being spread between Abia and rivers.

The only igbo speaking groups in rivers state that are officially recognized as Igbo by the rivers state government, are Asa, Egbema and Ndoki, because of the reasons i had given before.

Afam4eva:

I infered this from their facebook page. Majority of them prefer to be added to Rivers state and they're always fond of highlighting the fact that they have some Ijaw blood in them even though majority of them use the Igbo tag which i think may be discarded if they're added to Rivers state. The way i see this whole Igbo denial thing is that, people don't want to be associated with failure and that's the pure unadulterated truth. Igbos have achieved a lot as individuals but collectively, we've achieved almost nothing. The day Igbos start competing with the Malaysians and Singapore, Igbos won't be the ones inviting Ikwerres, Ogba etc. They will want to be part of the Igbo umbrella. That's even too far. Let's have an Igbo president first and you will see a tip of what i'm talking about.

ChinenyeN: Radoillo, ethnicity is a social construct, very much connected with anthropological concepts and facts. Just because it is used a political tool in Nigeria (crudely and unnecessarily) does not change that.

ChinenyeN: As for Ukwa and Rivers state, it is primarily some Ndoki who have expressed the desire. Asa on the other hand has maintained its stance alongside Ngwa. It also isn't all Ndoki who want to be cut into Rivers. There are those who are actively pushing to have Ndoki Rivers and Akwa Ibom brought into Abia. There are also those who favor a united Ndoki via the proposed Aba state.

So opinions differ within Ndoki, and they even end up arguing these differences of opinion among themselves. Funny enough it is this same difference that made the balkanization of Ndoki into three states possible; during the time they were arguing among themselves over their pro-Ngwa and anti-Ngwa sentiments.

ChinenyeN: As for Ukwa and Rivers state, it is primarily some Ndoki who have expressed the desire. Asa on the other hand has maintained its stance alongside Ngwa. It also isn't all Ndoki who want to be cut into Rivers. There are those who are actively pushing to have Ndoki Rivers and Akwa Ibom brought into Abia. There are also those who favor a united Ndoki via the proposed Aba state.

So opinions differ within Ndoki, and they even end up arguing these differences of opinion among themselves. Funny enough it is this same difference that made the balkanization of Ndoki into three states possible; during the time they were arguing among themselves over their pro-Ngwa and anti-Ngwa sentiments.

Andre Uweh:
Chinenye is right here. Am aware of the push of Ndịeze and politicians from Ndokị to be in the proposed Aba state.

ChinenyeN: Pazienza, I doubt you are in the position to walk down this road with me. You know your knowledge of Ndoki and Ngwa is limited. So do not try to start what you cannot finish.

Radoillo: Politics plays a most important role in how people identify themselves. Only politics can explain why Omoku is not an Igbo community and Abiriba is.

pazienza: My knowledge about Ndoki and Ngwa is vast enough for me to decipher that both groups are distinct igbo tribes with different dialect, culture and world view.

ChinenyeN:

The difference in dialect between "Ndoki" speech and "Ngwa" speech is no different than the difference in dialect that can be found between two "Ngwa" speech communities. Likewise for culture and world view. Honestly, I could easily provide examples in all three respects, but that is not what this is about. This is not about "deciphering". This is about history.

Now, do you honestly believe you are in a position to walk down this road with me? More importantly, do you really want to walk down the road with me? Does this your "vast knowledge" also include the precolonial socio-cultural structures, histories and interactions of the various communities within the Asa-Ndoki-Ngwa complex and are you willing to test this your vast knowledge with me? I'll say again, do not try to start what you cannot finish.

ChinenyeN:

The difference in dialect between "Ndoki" speech and "Ngwa" speech is no different than the difference in dialect that can be found between two "Ngwa" speech communities. Likewise for culture and world view. Honestly, I could easily provide examples in all three respects, but that is not what this is about. This is not about "deciphering". This is about history.

Now, do you honestly believe you are in a position to walk down this road with me? More importantly, do you really want to walk down the road with me? Does this your "vast knowledge" also include the precolonial socio-cultural structures, histories and interactions of the various communities within the Asa-Ndoki-Ngwa complex and are you willing to test this your vast knowledge with me? I'll say again, do not try to start what you cannot finish.

Abagworo: I don't think his argument is about history but about present reality. I can attest to his stance on Ndoki fighting to free themselves from the erroneous Ngwa identity. Most outsiders like myself listen to Ndoki and Ngwa and hear the same dialect but Ndokis and even Asa try as much as possible to guard their "distinctness" from Ngwa.

ChinenyeN:

The difference in dialect between "Ndoki" speech and "Ngwa" speech is no different than the difference in dialect that can be found between two "Ngwa" speech communities. Likewise for culture and world view. Honestly, I could easily provide examples in all three respects, but that is not what this is about. This is not about "deciphering". This is about history.

Now, do you honestly believe you are in a position to walk down this road with me? More importantly, do you really want to walk down the road with me? Does this your "vast knowledge" also include the precolonial socio-cultural structures, histories and interactions of the various communities within the Asa-Ndoki-Ngwa complex and are you willing to test this your vast knowledge with me? I'll say again, do not try to start what you cannot finish.

Abagworo:

I don't think his argument is about history but about present reality. I can attest to his stance on Ndoki fighting to free themselves from the erroneous Ngwa identity. Most outsiders like myself listen to Ndoki and Ngwa and hear the same dialect but Ndokis and even Asa try as much as possible to guard their "distinctness" from Ngwa.

pazienza: Take it or leave it, Ndoki dialect is totally, i mean totally different from Ngwa dialect, the difference is as big as the difference between Ngwa and any other neighbouring igbo tribe like Umuahia groups.

ChinenyeN:

I am not fighting you on Ndoki dialectal distinctness. I am well aware of it, and I have highlighted it in detail several times here on NL. So, there is nothing to discuss in that respect, but that isn't enough for you. You seem to want to take it further by making claims on the kinship and precolonial history of the communities in the area; something you in all probability are unfamiliar with.

pazienza:


If you listen to Ndoki and Ngwa and hear the same thing, then your vestibulocochlear nerve is malfunctioning, no insult is meant. The difference between the two dialects, is as clear as the difference between day and night.

pazienza: Even though many break away igbo groups would want to deny i t for economic and political reasons,but the truth is that the precolonial history of all Igbo speaking groups are somewhat intertwined in a neighbour to neighbour kind of bond, it is not perculiar to Ngwa and Ndoki.

ChinenyeN: Abagworo, Pazienza is talking about the archetypal "Ndoki"-type speech form, spoken primarily by Azumini, Abaki, Akirika, and Egberu.