New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format - Religion (16) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format (27188 Views)
Pastor Adeboye Dedicates RCCG New Auditorium / MAGNIFICENT: The New RCCG 12 Million Capacity Auditorium (photo) / 2014 Prophecies By Pastor Adeboye (RCCG) (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) ... (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) (19) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Bearshare(m): 10:23am On Jun 22, 2010 |
Church of God mission believes in tithing Redeem christian church of God believes in tithing Mountain of fire and miracles believes in tithing Winners chapel believes in tithing so many bible believing churches that dont even preach prosperity like deeper Life and assemblies of God even teach tithing and its relevant, and these are ministries that have helped lives thru' missions and other means. and the bible never explicitly said we should not tithe, why should i stop afterall God has been blessing me and my family. garlmold, nuclearboy, alethiae you can all go ahead and preach evil and let those who want to believe your fallasy go ahead and be deceived by small kids like you who knows how to manipulate bible and deceive people.  |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Doptimist2: 10:25am On Jun 22, 2010 |
@ aletheia I wasn't talking to you (in your first response to me) Secondly are those the only few verses you got? You and your counterparts should consider this, I love how the way ‘THE LIVING BIBLE (PARENTS RESOURCE BIBLE)’ puts Matthew 5:17 to the end. But our main points will be verses 17 thro 22. 17. “ Don’t misunderstand why I have come – it isn’t to cancel the laws of Moses and the warnings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them and to make them all come true. 18. With all the earnestness I have I say: Every law in the Book will continue until its purpose is achieved. 19. And so if anyone breaks the least commandment and teaches others to, he shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven. But those who teach God’s laws and obey them shall be great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20. But I warn you – unless your goodness is greater than that of the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders, you can’t get into the Kingdom of Heaven at all! 21. Under the laws of Moses the rule was, ‘If you murder, you must die.’ 22. But I have added to that rule and tell you that if you are only angry, even in your home, you are in danger of judgment! If you call your friend an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse him, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” These few verses are stating some of the laws Jesus worked on when he on earth. In verse 17 you’ve heard him in clear terms that he didn’t come to cancel the laws of Moses and the warnings of the prophets, but to fulfill them and to make them all come true. Verse 18 continues, “I say: Every law in the Book will continue until its purpose is achieved.” I would like to know who addressed who in Heb. 7 is it Jesus that was talking and to whom was he talking to or otherwise. At least in Matthew 5 we know he was addressing his disciples which of course we are so far we are in Christ Jesus. Those that said that we are under the Grace and not under the law should note what Jesus said in verse 21-22 “Under the LAWS of MOSES the RULE WAS, If you murder, you must die. But I have ADDED to that RULE and tell you that if you are only angry, even in your home, you are in danger of judgment! If you call your friend an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse him, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” That means some of the laws are still valid and we are still to keep them, but the issue of Grace is that we now have a second chance by the reason of his dead which brought the Grace. Which therefore means that if we disobey any of these laws or rules we will not automatically be condemned to death but we’ll have a chance of asking for forgiveness which in the past was never so. When you make mention of Heb. 7, is it only KJV that you read? Have you read other translations like the ‘THE LIVING BIBLE (PARENTS RESOURCE BIBLE)’? I think this will help expatiate more on that issue of disannulment of the law. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 12:08pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Oh oh oh! It seems it's scurrying time in all the tithephobics' time-zone. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by KunleOshob(m): 12:33pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
@D-optimist Christ fufilled the law by bringing it to an end. Romans 10:4, also if you have time read the whole Galatians 3 & 5, it answers most of the questions pertaining to the law as regards christians. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by ogajim(m): 12:43pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
^^ Scurrying to do what? D-optimist, what's the meaning of "fulfill"? and why did Jesus Christ said "it is finished" on the Cross? Tithes was not the focus of this thread but the "application" but it has veered to the tithe wagon, "it is what it is" as they say. You can GIVE whatever you fancy to give but don't tell me there is a % requirement, only "Bible employees" hold that kind of view, some folks sincerely give because they believe in that mode and there is nothing wrong with that either as it their prerogative. I've seen folks who leave their elderly parents hungry so as to be able to pay tithe, I wonder how God will judge those kinds of Christians, The "standard" Churches barely mention tithes but the "wofers", "ecumenical movement", and most Pentecostal Churches sometimes devote whole sermons to MONEY. The idea of giving a % with the hope of higher returns is Investment banking at best, I wonder why Jesus threw the money changers out of the Temple. Do we still worship in Temples today? |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 1:28pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
^ phobia and scurrying go hand in hand. You are in the best position to tell me what you're scurrying to do. BTW, when is it going to be made plain to you that tithe is A form of giving, and that any abuse of tithe can also be achieved in giving, therefore cannot be used as excuse to condemn tithes. e.g some folks leave their elderly parents hungry so as to 'give cheerfully'. You know what, whipping up sentiments will never change the truth. This ye ought to have done, and not leave the other undone. 'This' referring to bring ye ALL the tithes. Bring it(foreverX ce) |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by ogajim(m): 2:29pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Image123, I don't know your background but you are starting to sound like a "Pastor" to me, I don't need to give to a Church to justify myself, I give where ever the Spirit leads me and how I am lead. I don't need to be told how to give either and most certainly not by someone who is far from my "shoes". No one needs to tell a Christian how or what to give, God has that AUTHORITY not man no matter what he calls himself. ## pray for Nigeria in the soccer game against Korea  |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Doptimist2: 2:47pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
@D-optimist @D-optimist Kunle I've gone through these verses you requested me to go through but I'm still not convinced with your message. I don't seem to understand this grace of a thing you are talking about. In that passage you told me to look up 'Romans 13:8 down. 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, T[i]hou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment,[/i] it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself[/color]. 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. This passage has stated some of what we know as laws of Moses which of course are being recognized in this passage as being rules we should obey, but only that he summarized them in to a little clause of "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself", so you should be able to see that. There can't be grace when there are no rules to follow, it is only when you err that you can have a second chance of showing remorse and turning away from it. so the issue of disanulling the law actually meant that ANYONE who is in Christ Jesus is not liable to condemnation as what was obtained the the Old testament but a second chance. Check this out. Romans 6:1 down. Emphasis on verses 1 & 2. 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in [color=#990000]sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. So as I said earlier, Jesus Christ didn't come to condemn the law nor the warnings of the prophets but to fulfill them. (Matthew 5:17) |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 3:22pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Ogagim I kid you not, I'm not a 'Pastor', nor do I collect offering or salary from church. I think I've said that before to kunleoshob. It amazed me how he continues to falsely accuse me of that. I'm just a child of God who knows his Father's will. Now, it's not a question of man telling you what to give, but rather showing you what the Father has said that you should give. We should learn to know when God is speaking e.g Malachi 3 and Matthew 23v23. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Zikkyy(m): 3:33pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Image123: and what is God telling us in Malachi 3 and Mathew 23v23? |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by aletheia(m): 3:37pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Long time. Tonye-t:Why do you seek to twist my words to mean what they don't. Where did I imply that tithing was just giving mint and cumin. Did you not see the bible verses I included in my post? I believe you miss the import of that verse: Mint and cumin were garden herbs and spices, not what you would probably consider significant. . .yet the pharisees tithed on it, thereby showing themselves to be sticklers for the letter of the Law while neglecting the weightier matters of judgment, mercy and faith. Their hardness of heart was such that in "keeping" the Sabbath, they would rather a fellow man suffer (much like those today who would rather a fellow christian suffer and be in pain than fail to render their obligatory "tithe" to their tax masters). You listed these: - Tithes of the seed of the land - Tithes of the fruit of the tree - Tithes of the herd - Tithes of the flock Which could be classified under the gamut of agricultural activities. Pray do show us sir, where the Law of Moses listed [size=14pt]money[/size] as a titheable commodity. If you can do that I would be obliged to concede that you are right and I am wrong. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Doptimist2: 3:54pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
D-optimist, @ Enigma I sat back to take inventory of your post after this one but saw only one you posted in June 18, 2010, 02:21 PM "Nigerian Time Zone". What's happening to you. I pray you get well soon so as to join your folks. Lol |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by KunleOshob(m): 4:00pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
@D-optimist Romans 13:8 makes it clear that love fufills the law. "Christ is love" in essence what this means is that the principle/ spirit behind the laws is love and love should be our guide whilst implementing the law, that passage further says if we love others we would not steal from them or commit adultery against them or covet their property. This passage essentially buttresses Jesus teaching in matthew 23:23 were he chastized the harisees for being sticklers for the letters of the law rather than imbibing the spirit of the law which is based on love for others. In summary what christianity teaches is that we should abide by the spirit of the law rather than the letters of it. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 4:07pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Oh tell me you have a bible zikkyy. Even mazaje has one, and it's subsidised for you to afford one. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Doptimist2: 4:38pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
@ Kunle I'll be gone for now we'll meet tomorow. I can't see that you are not ready to see it the way I see it. You've seen it yourself that these laws still apply but not as the were in the time past for the Jews but in a different way which Jesus tried to summarized into a simple but complex "LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS YOURSELF". Or don't you understand that some of these laws are embodied in that phrase he made? A few question for you before I go. Do you believe that a Christian can fall into sin? If yes does that make him a sinner? What do you refer to as SIN? Thanks for Now. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by garyarnold(m): 4:52pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Image123 - I am done arguing with you. We are not going to agree. Malachi DOESN'T matter. Malachi is referring to the ORDINANCES of tithing which is in Numbers 18. Neither YOU nor anyone else is following God's ordinances today. NO ONE has shown me any scripture where God ever commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man made or earned. NEVER on income. NEVER on money. ALWAYS on FOOD from crops and animals. Yet the Israelite farmers HAD income, HAD markets to buy and sell, and HAD money. But God did NOT want them to give to Him from their income or money. You take God's Word and twist it, change it, and then use the result to base your beliefs. It doesn't matter who God was speaking to in Malachi - it was NOT the Christian Church. It doesn't matter whether Abram owned the war spoils or not. There is NO example of Abram giving a tenth of his income, and the ONLY example is war spoils. All these arguments that really don't matter. THE LORD'S TITHE WAS ONLY ON THE MIRACULOUS INCREASE FROM GOD'S HAND, NOT MAN'S INCOME. If you want to continue IGNORING God's own definition and God's own ordinances (instructions; commands) and call you measly ten percent a tithe, go ahead. You only show your lack of understanding what God's tithe was all about. Three years ago I might have agreed with you. But God opened my eyes to His truth. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by KunleOshob(m): 5:29pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
@D-optimist Yes I agree that the guiding spirit behind the law is love and that is why God instructed the israelites to give their tithes to the poor and needy contrary to the greed inspired selfish version of illegal tithes being preached by gospel pimps today. Even biblical tithing was based on love contrary to the twisted version being used to 419 christians today. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Nobody: 6:02pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
In Christianity, some interpretations of Biblical teachings conclude that although tithing was practiced extensively in the Old Testament, it was never practiced or taught within the first-century Church. Instead the New Testament scriptures are seen as teaching the concept of "freewill offerings" as a means of supporting the church: 1 Corinthians 16:2, 2 Corinthians 9:7. Also, some of the earliest groups sold everything they had and held the proceeds in common to be used for the furtherance of the Gospel: Acts 2:44-47, Acts 4:34-35. Further, Acts 5:1-20 contains the account of a man and wife who were living in one of these groups. They sold a piece of property and donated only part of the selling price to the church but claimed to have given the whole amount and immediately 'fell down and died' when confronted by the apostle Peter over their dishonesty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 6:32pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Image123 - I am done Here is an hardened being. I wasn't arguing with you but showing you the shallowness of your paraded 'points'. Only an ignorant fellow will carry a whole book out of the Bible and assert "Malachi DOESN'T matter". What did Jesus say? Luke 16v17. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. I hope that verse MATTERS to you. Sorry you've lost it (if you ever had it). Run fast to calvary for cleansing, you stink of sin, garyarnold. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 6:43pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Neither So you're the one monitoring God's people and you can declare no one is following God's ordinances. How naive. You must have been following satan's ordinances, yes? Ever heard of a certain Matthew 28v20 or it also DOESN'T matter. I guess all that matters to you is that people do not tithe, you need deliveranceS. And what exactly is man made or earned? Have you not heard that ALL things were made by him; and without him was not ANY THING made that was made. You need to dust your Bible and really pray. All those links and books are not exactly helping you gary. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by ogajim(m): 6:53pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
- Tithes of the seed of the land : I am not a Farmer but I will see what I can do from the little garden in the backyard - Tithes of the fruit of the tree : I don't have fruit trees in my yard - Tithes of the herd : No livestock ownership here - Tithes of the flock : I don't own any flock of anything Image123: Are you a Levite or a Priest? If you are neither, I have no reason to believe Malachi applies to you. What Jesus Christ preached in his Earthly ministry applies to all believers, help/Love for one another, being faithful and fruitful, compassion, etc. D-optimist & Image123, do you pay taxes at all? |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 7:00pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
It doesn't matter who Oh, I thought it so much mattered to you that the priests were the addressed. Now it doesn't matter? There's a double-minded man, unstable. What do you think to be God's tithe? You think Abraham gave devil's tithe or what? Maybe you should go back to '3years ago' before your eyes were opened like Adam and Eve's. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Zikkyy(m): 7:06pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Image123: Na wa for you. Why you dey run na? Anyway i'll leave you with extract from gary's post i find useful. Think about it. garyarnold: |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by garyarnold(m): 9:46pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Malachi 3:9 - "Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation." Galatians 3:13 - "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a [b]curse [/b]for us:, " For those who want to use Malachi today, you are rejecting what Jesus did for us on the cross. How can we be under the curse of Malachi when Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law? |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by viaro: 10:33pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
garyarnold: This is a very stupid way of setting forth an argument. MANY Christians who tithe are NOT rejecting Jesus sacrifice on the Cross just because they give a tithe of their income - no Christian is going back to the land of Israel seeking "JUSTIFICATION" by tithes! Where in God's Word is tithing mentioned as a matter of salvation? To be sure, any person who assumes that the NT does not warn us against a "curse" ought to think carefully. The New Testament indeed warns CHRISTIANS against a "curse", regardless of the fact that Christ has already laird down His life for us on the Cross - see Hebrews 6:8 - 'But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.' The "curse" in that verse is not based on tithes; but the fact still remains that you cannot ignore the warning of a "curse" in the NT, even after Christ's sacrifice. Tithes in the Bible are never presented to us as a matter of JUSTIFICATION. Galatians 3 and 5 point out the matter of the Law, and most conspicuously highlights the subject of JUSTIFICATION. Where in the Bible do we find tithes discussed as a matter of justification? But when you say - garyarnold:. . . that is simply not true on a second note: because the apostles used many verses from the LAW and other pasrt of the OT to establish Christian doctrines as well, yet none of them make the conclusion you're making. Anybody can use any verse of the OT to teach a subject in a healthy, balanced manner. This is why Paul cites Deut. 25:4 TWICE in the NT to talk about Christian giving where in fact Deuteronomy 25:4 has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of giving at all. In the same manner, anyone can indeed use Malachi to teach about tithes and offerings for Christians without seeking to be placed under a curse or stand accused of rejecting the sacrifice of Christ. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by viaro: 10:33pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
garyarnold: Malachi matters - as does every other scripture of the OT. That is what the NT states in Romans 15:4 when it says, 'For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction' (ESV); and we are familiar with 2 Timothy 3:16 - ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.' These verses should help you see why Malachi matters, for that book is part of the 'ALL Scripture' that the NT talks about. It is because folks like you cannot see the value of the OT scriptures, that is why you keep looking for legalistic answers everywhere and come to the conclusion that this or that does not matter. If that is the case, then by your legalistic arguments, even Christ Himself would not be the 'Passover' for Christians - for the term "passover" is derived from the OT scriptures of the LAW; and everywhere it refers to an animal and NOT a human being! But oh, you don't have any qualms about that and would not make the same legalistic argument in this case as you do for tithes. For those who keep looking for legalism in applying the substance of the Law, please tell me: what has an "ox" in Deuteronomy 25:4 got to do with any type of Christian giving that anti-tithers never argue with Paul in quoting it TWICE in the New Testament (1 Cor. 9:9-10 and 1 Tim. 5:18)?!? I guess you Gary would have yelled at Paul the same thing as you often do, that Deut. 25:4 "does not matter" because it was referring to animals and not to money! People often make the argument about tithes being agricultural produce and not money, without for one moment realising a simple fact here: no Christian who tithes today has to go to Israel to fetch farm produce to tithe in Church! Believers can tithe of their income without quarrelling about mundane anti-tithing arguments seeking legalism here and there. Abraham tithes cannot be argued on agricultural products, yet he is categorically said to have given a "tithe", no? What is wrong in people giving a tithe of their income, that you Gary and anti-tithers are making all these very childish and legalistic arguments? Legalism does not help the Christian - NEVER has, NEVER will. Yes, Israel tithed on agricultural produce according to the Law; they also did so many things (like keeping the Passover) according to the Law. But in the NT, God is not looking for legalism at all; rather, He is seeking hearts that simply understand the PRINCIPLES of His Word. . . [list]>> It is because of "pinciples" that we don't have to argue whether the 'Passoever' today for Christians should be an animal or a Human Being![/list] [list]>> It is because of "principles" that we don't have to wonder why an 'ox' in Deut. 25:4 is used to talk about CHRISTIAN giving in the NT.[/list] [list]>> It is because of "principles" that the NT says there is a "sabbath" to the people of God (Christians) without asking us to seek legalistic application of a 'seventh day' according to the Mosaic Law.[/list] [list]>> It is also because of "principles" that the NT tells us that the experiences of Israel are written as EXAMPLES for us CHRISTIANS! See 1 Corinthians 10:6-11.[/list] In these examples, we are not asked to be looking for "exactitudes", which is what legalism does. The believer who argues for the sake of legalism will never see any principle anywhere unless all things are cemented and "to be followed as it is written". We already know that if one wants to read his or her legalism into the OT, then they should remember: the Passover according to the Law was an animal and not a human being, and as such no one would be able to see why Christ is called "our Passover" unless they drop their legalism pronto and see the "principle" in the OT 'passover'. A Christian can indeed tithe - there is NO VERSE that condemns tithes. NONE. Christians who are tithing are not fetching farm produce from Israel to present as tithes; more so because the word 'tithe' is NOT used only in reference to farm produce. The Jews today understand this fact; that is why the maaser is not tied to only agricultural produce. Anti-tithers should play less on their legalism, for legalism has NEVER helped nor will ever help anybody in the Body of Christ. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by viaro: 10:34pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
garyarnold: Then I guess you can accuse Paul of having done the same in quoting Deuteronomy 25:4 TWICE in the NT to instruct CHRISTIANS on giving (1 Cor. 9:9-10 and 1 Tim. 5:18) - since an 'ox' in Deut. 25:4 has nothing in that passage to do with any kind of giving at all! I guess again you would accuse Paul of referring back to Numbers 18 (the OT passage on tithes) and using that OT passage (or akin passages) to instruct CHRISTIANS on NT giving, no? The NT also talks about Christ being our Passoever - that word "passover" must have been "twisted" from the OT where it occurs and used to teach that Christ has become our passover, yes? So, after all the "twisting" as you say, the NT declares: "Therefore let us keep the feast . . ", no? Why are you not yelling at Paul to remind him that he was "twisting" the OT word on passover (animals) and applying it to Christ? Your legalism presents very shallow arguments. garyarnold: Okay then, it doesn't matter who God was speaking to in so many OT Scriptures that are quoted in the NT for CHRISTIANS - because when we go back to them, we see that those OT verses were NOT speaking to the 'Christian Church' but specifically to the JEWS! Start with Hebrews 8:8-10 and compare with Jeremiah 31:31-34 . . . the latter (Jeremiah 31) was speaking to "the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah" - where did you read the "Christian Church" in Jeremiah 31? If you cannot see the divine principles in the OT scriptures, then YOU HAVE NO NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANITY and you should stop fooling yourself about! If you want to maintain your legalism, please apply the same thing and read my lips: "It doesn't matter who God was speaking to in Jeremiah - it was NOT the Christian Church" - then you can stop being a hypocrite who has no qualms accepting Hebrews 8 as applicable to your own Christian life! garyarnold: WHO gave Abraham the victory in the war against the kings? What is it that we can boast is ours that was not given to us as Christians?? "What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?" - 1 Cor. 4:7, NIV. garyarnold: Quite on the contrary, your anti-tithing arguments are the most ignorant and pathetically misguided I ever came across! Your misfooted assumptions of "definitions" are small carpings fit for wireless noise - a tithe is a tithe; and if Christians with understanding give a tithe of their income to further Christian ministry in the Body of Christ, you cannot come round making very silly comments on illiterate "definitions" built on nothing else than your anti-tithing legalism. garyarnold: You want to check again to see if your eyes are opened indeed! The funny legalism you present hardly speaks of having one's eyes opened. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by Image123(m): 11:22pm On Jun 22, 2010 |
Need I say more, Zikkyy and others? Please read viaro's input above. Both the commentary on gary's post which you quoted, and other post. I pray your hearts be not hardened. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by ogajim(m): 3:11am On Jun 23, 2010 |
^^^ There you go image123 grabbing viaro's coat tails, Tithes in the Bible are never presented to us as a matter of JUSTIFICATION. Galatians 3 and 5 point out the matter of the Law, and most conspicuously highlights the subject of JUSTIFICATION. Where in the Bible do we find tithes discussed as a matter of justification? Those who like to pay the standard tithe can pay for all I care because I know each of us will have to "work out his/her own Salvation with fear and trembling", No one get's blessed simply because they tithe and not follow God's Word, the "promise of a bountiful harvest" related to tithes remind me of the "sugar candy mountain" references in Animal Farm  |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by garyarnold(m): 6:02am On Jun 23, 2010 |
Those who wish to keep the legalistic ten percent will continue to do so. I will continue to be Spirit led in my giving, and I will continue to call it giving. If calling your giving a tithe makes you happy, I guess you will continue to do so. I find it disgusting to call giving, tithing, since pastors all over the world are teaching that tithing is not an option, but required. Using the word tithing for both of these situations just adds to the confusion. I am convinced, however, that some of you call your giving, tithing, just to keep the arguments going, or to straddle the fence and not take sides, or just for show. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by viaro: 7:03am On Jun 23, 2010 |
ogajim: I was actually expecting an answer to my enquiry as regards where tithes are ever taught in Scripture as a matter of justification or salvation. Since there's not a verse teaching such a connection, why do anti-tithers desperately use all sorts of gimmicks to dribble in that inference? Where does the Bible teach that a tither has fallen from grace? Where does the Bible teach that a tither is rejecting what Jesus did on the Cross? When anti-tithers use all these gimmicks to muddy the waters, are they better than the 'pimps' who use all sorts of spiritual gimmicks to force Christians to tithe? Many people on either side make a lot of excuses for their assertions and claims. Most anti-tithers tell us they have 'no problem' with Christians who tithe or give a tenth of their income - but we know that is pretentious and dubious talk because it is evident in their legalistic arguments that they want to force Christians to stop tithing altogether! In the same way, many pro-tithers sing us tithing tunes that tend to force everyone to tithe. Neither positions is a healthy one to adopt; and that is why we need to grow beyond this point and deal maturely with the real issues about this subject. To this end, I feel it is about time to squarely face up to such dubiously legalistic arguments from our friends like Gary Arnold. Where we find the apostles quoting verses from the LAW of Moses and other OT passages, it is clear that they used those verses in PRINCIPLES and not in legalistic "exactitude". The examples of the OT 'Passover' and the 'ox' in Deut. 25:4 have been explicated earlier - but if we are seeking the legalistic interpretation of such OT verses, then Jesus would never have been our Passover nor would we have found Deut. 25:4 quoted TWICE in matters relating to giving and care of leaders in Church in the NT! If Gary or Nairaland's anti-tithers want to keep pursuing legalism on this subject, I would be most glad to show them that they would have absolutely NO NEW COVENANT as a consequence. Why? Because many verses which the apostles quoted in the NT were directly spoken to the JEWS and not a word mentioned legalistically anywhere about 'the Christian Church'. Yet, anti-tithers never for once argue their legalisms in those other examples. |
| Re: New Rccg's Tithe Collection Format by viaro: 7:37am On Jun 23, 2010 |
garyarnold: My dear Gary, let's put these petty noises aside once and for all. Did you ever for once consider the fact that your anti-tithing arguments are patently legalistic? Did you ever for once take time to consider the possibility of any "principle" on this subject? Reading through your legalistic arguments bring out a whole lot of questions: which Christian do you know of today who literally has had to go back to the land of Israel to harvest crops in order to fulfill your legalistic definition of 'the LORD's tithe'? And when Christians give a tenth or tithe of their income, does that amount to paganistic tithes as anti-tithers falsely interpret Abraham's tithes? Where at all does Scripture ever teach that a tither has fallen from grace simply for giving a tenth or tithe of their income? Where did you read that any Christian who tithes is rejecting what Jesus did on the Cross? You make such pedantic and legalistic arguments without ever seeing how puerile they really are when examined a bit more closely. garyarnold: Call it whatever suits your legalism; tithers are not demon-led in their giving tithes of their income. garyarnold: First, no one has to feel disgusted about giving a tenth or a tithe of their income if they choose to do so. There is no verse in God's Word that makes such a prescription anywhere if someone has determined that the proportion of their giving would amount to a tithe - and they are alright to call it a 'tithe' without feeling ashamed for that choice! Second, the assertion that pastors all over the world teach that tithing is not an option is a bold LIE! Even where some churches teach that it is "obligatory", the fact is that not all pastors everywhere around the world teach that tithing is "required" - what part of your salvation is it "required" for? Third, anti-tithing arguments for the most part have added to the confusion in the claims that a tither has fallen from grace or is rejecting what Jesus did on the Cross! Such anti-tithing assertions are no better than pro-tithing claims that without tithes a Christian cannot go to heaven! Extreme assertions blown in our faces from either side should be discouraged. garyarnold: Your convictions are respected, even if they do not apply to all who are in favour of tithing. The idea of calling yours 'giving' is quite comical - it seems uninformed and fosters your quibbling on empty claims. When Christians tithe, they are also 'GIVING'. If those who give a tenth decide to call it a 'tithe' of their income, why is "disgusting" about that? It seems that after all your anti-tithing 'show' and 'straddling of the fence', there's nothing else to do than come down to the excuse that you just want to call yours 'giving' - for no apparent substance other than the pre-conditioning your legalism has hammered out of you! Let people decide what to call their giving - even if it is a tithe, an offering, a freewill offering, contribution, donation, gifts, aid, fellowship offering, etc. There's no need getting disgusted about that as long as they are not dipping their hands into your pocket for what they give! |
(1) (2) (3) ... (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) (19) (Reply)
Pastor Adeboye Announces 63-Day Fasting For RCCG 2021 / 'Apostle Suleman Collects N5000 For Handshake For Blessings' - Man Accuses / The Holy Grail? (Grail Message)
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 152 |