CodeTemplar:
are you aware a born again christian is actually the modern day Jew/Israelite?
So by you own explanation up there Christ's blood covers provision in the church?

Somebody already beat me to the Mathew 23:23 defence so I will refer you there.

Also, the widow's mite story nd d work of Judas Iscariot. D prblm wif pple esp xtians is dat dey dnt read their bible.

nelsonoba:


Oga have you been to "most American and European churches" before arriving at this conclusion? Do they read a different bible that does not contain tithing instructions in it? If they do, they they are using a fake bible. For your information, I have seen American and European pastors talk about tithes many times, and they are under obligation to preach it once in a while because it is written in the word of God. Abraham paid tithe, Moses commanded tithes, Malachi talks about tithes, Jesus upheld the practice of tithing in Matthew 23:23. If it was not a command from God or if it was not important, Jesus would never have upheld it in Matthew!

Jesus never upheld anything in Matthew.

Because you interpret something as your pastor has doesn't mean it's true.

Jesus only emphasized giving to the poor and needy.

It's stupid to think to open the blessings of heaven you have to give God certain amount of money. You might as well bribe your way into heaven.

Ihedinobi3:
...
And now the real thing is here and there is no more place for shadows.

...But after the Lord Jesus died and
resurrected, the Temple was
destroyed and the priesthood ended.

first of all, Jesus said "the old law can be summarized into 2"
where did he say it is abolished?

secondly, Jesus said "i will destroy thistemple and rebuild it in 3 days"
so He rebuilt the temple after the cross.

finally, the royal priesthood still exists. The curtain in the temple was torn open NOT the alter or the church building.

All believers today are part of the royal priesthood. Am sure you can find that verse that says so.

My dear, if you truely love God, giving Him a tenth of your income will not warrant blasphemy and much oratory.

GIVE WHAT IS CEASERS TO CEASAR
AND WHAT IS THE LORD'S UNTO THE LORD. am sure you now who sad that.

am very sure that TITHE IS NOT COMPULSORY at least in the Anglican Church i attend.

CodeTemplar:
In the Old Testament the bible makes us understand that one of the benefits of tithe is God rebuking the devourer. Since our anti-tithe army have dispelled the usefulness of tithes after the coming of Jesus, How can I provoke Gods intervention in rebuking the devourer or personally rebuke the devourer effectively?

Please let's keep it simple and provide bible backed arguments.

lol...to provoke God's intervention you have to buy it....smh

CodeTemplar:
Stop making wrong inference sir. Ananias and his wife were killed because they lied to the holy spirit. The Holy Spirit's move was what triggered that free giving movement.

So that Holy Ghost has disappeared today, right? Or do we now have the junior holy spirit today as against the real one during the time of early church?
So you at least understand that God was willing to kill two Christians just because a little lie over tithing? If tithing was not important before God, then why would The Almighty and MERCIFUL God kill 2 people for a little lie over tithe?? Or do you want to tell me that was the first time Ananias and Sapphira had told a lie in their life? Or do you want to tell me it was the first sin they had committed in their lives? Or you think other Christians around were 100% perfect and had never committed even one sin since they became Christians and joined the church?? Think again.......and ask yourself what it was about that money that made God willing to kill 2 people over a simple little lie they told about it

Originakalokalo:


"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness.
You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Mathew 23 Vs 23.


It means you should do justice, obey the law show mercy and faithfulness...Then Pay tithe.

Don't leave any of these ...


This is from Jesus Christ himself.

what does woe mean? At this point In time, Jesus was still alive and still under the law of Moses,saying anything otherwise will sound like blasphemy... please read the passage clear and try to denote if it was sounding like someone in support or actually rebuking them

Originakalokalo:


"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness.
You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Mathew 23 Vs 23.


It means you should do justice, obey the law show mercy and faithfulness...Then Pay tithe.

Don't leave any of these ...


This is from Jesus Christ himself.

Jesus went as far as calling them hypocrite...that is definitely not a commendation but rather criticizing

CodeTemplar:
In the Old Testament the bible makes us understand that one of the benefits of tithe is God rebuking the devourer. Since our anti-tithe army have dispelled the usefulness of tithes after the coming of Jesus, How can I provoke Gods intervention in rebuking the devourer or personally rebuke the devourer effectively?

Please let's keep it simple and provide bible backed arguments.

man does not earn grace because he does good but rather he does good because he has the grace of God-martin luther.

CodeTemplar:
are you aware a born again christian is actually the modern day Jew/Israelite?
So by you own explanation up there Christ's blood covers provision in the church?

Somebody already beat me to the Mathew 23:23 defence so I will refer you there.

Matthew 23:23 is not in support of tithing, infact it portrays tithing as least important...the only reason not neglecting the former was added was just to appease the ppl that will make it sound like a blasphemy.
Jesus was under the law of Moses so saying otherwise is a blasphemy or speaking against their tradition and commandment. The law of Moses applied to the days of Jesus on earth. I don't understand our a sane person will read Mathew 23:23 and portray it as a commendation to tithing

CodeTemplar:
In the Old Testament the bible makes us understand that one of the benefits of tithe is God rebuking the devourer. Since our anti-tithe army have dispelled the usefulness of tithes after the coming of Jesus, How can I provoke Gods intervention in rebuking the devourer or personally rebuke the devourer effectively?

Please let's keep it simple and provide bible backed arguments.

If you're believer, you'll know that God has given you power to tread upon serpent and scorpion and over every work of the devil.
Have faith in God.

CodeTemplar:
What argument are u referring to? You see why I doubt your mental state? Glad to have you leave the thread.

Wow, you're really confused about what you typed? Let me help you. See the last paragraph in the picture. I'm amazed you've genuinely forgotten you wrote that. God will heal your amnesia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEgS2uDMEF4

Ihedinobi3:
Hello, the following is a copy of a conversation I had about tithing with someone else. It may not directly answer your question, but you will find enough in it to begin to answer your question.



I'll be happy to answer any further questions or provide clarification or defence for anything in the above.

Edit: if you can handle it, I am attaching a Word document of the full conversation which you can read at your leisure for better understanding.

your summary was so nice until u said we should prioritize pastors when giving. I think the less privileged, and your family members should earn the "priority status" but if the pastor falls under the less privileged, then he too can be a priority.

zombieTRACKER:


This is purely a Christain thread
Why is there no caveat before commenting like they do on Muslim threads..

Well... They say the forum belongs to an Afonja.. So I'm not too surprised

Because Muslims mind their business.. You can see how sane this thread is, nobody is cursing your faith, members or god. Same can't be said when a muslim thread hits the frontpage. We all know how you come not only to derail but also masturbate on it.

Lastly, you must be full time hater. It's obvious you don't only hate muslim but also non igbo. That hate and bigotry will consume you

Originakalokalo:


"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness.
You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Mathew 23 Vs 23.


It means you should do justice, obey the law show mercy and faithfulness...Then Pay tithe.

Don't leave any of these ...


This is from Jesus Christ himself.

jesus had not die then. he has died and pay with his blood

How are you sure there is a devourer?

Ihedinobi3:


Although, as you may know, I have lengthy writings here where I have not added Scriptural references, I do my level best to say what I believe the Scriptures actually say.

It will take quite a bit of work to exegete Romans, Galatians and Hebrews, but that is not altogether necessary as I already shared bits from each of them in the material that I have shared here. Still, at some point, I may be able to and it may be necessary for me to do so. But I doubt that it will be any time soon.

Here is what I think is glaringly obvious:

The Lord Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law (Matt 5:17).

The Law was not going to pass away in even one small dot unless every bit of it was fulfilled (Matt 5:18).

Since our Lord fulfilled the Law when He lived in the Flesh and died and resurrected, all the Law was fulfilled and promptly removed (Col 2:14, Heb 8:13).

Now, we are commanded to live in the freedom which Jesus Christ has bought for us with His Death on the Cross (Gal 5:1). To continue to live by Moses is to deny the Death of the Lord Jesus for our sins (Gal 5:4).

This, of course, does not mean that we are now free to commit all sorts of wickedness just because we are no longer under the Law (Rom 6:1-2). Rather, Grace has its own "demands", if you will.

For example, if we are no longer required to pay the tithe, we are still commanded to provide for those who teach us the Truth so that we can grow spiritually, for the poor among believers and for the poor among unbelievers, in that order (see my first post for references).

This is what the Bible actually teaches.

The Lord Jesus said what was right to say at and for the time that He said it. He could not have told the Pharisees that they were not to pay the tithe anymore since the Law was still in force. The Temple still stood and there was a priesthood in Israel.

But after the Lord Jesus died and resurrected, the Temple was destroyed and the priesthood ended. The New Law came into force and it was no longer right to pay a tithe. Not only is the system that the tithe was supposed to support no longer extant, there was an entirely new system with new requirements. The Church is spread out across the world with teachers everywhere doing their jobs to help believers grow. There is no point collecting the tithe in Jerusalem anymore since the teachers are both Jewish and Gentile and can be very far away from Jerusalem at any given time.

The Lord therefore instituted a new way to take care of His People and commanded that it must be done freely with no compulsion. Those who give must give as they please both in type of gift and in quantity of gift. (See the attached document for more details and Biblical references).

I have been reading your posts on this thread.
You have fantastic knowledge of the right way things should be for Christians.
Thumbs up!!

CodeTemplar:
due to strange accidents

mr waec holder, there is no accident that is strange, a careless driver caused it.

or external happenings beyond his powers

the external happenings nor get name?
Keep livin in delusion.

CodeTemplar:


In the Old Testament the bible makes us understand that one of the benefits of tithe is God rebuking the devourer. Since our anti-tithe army have dispelled the usefulness of tithes after the coming of Jesus, How can I provoke Gods intervention in rebuking the devourer or personally rebuke the devourer effectively?

Please let's keep it simple and provide bible backed arguments.

You're asking to provide Bible-backed arguments..... but where is yours to support what you are saying about God rebuking the devourer? ....and who exactly is the devourer?...the pastors?...absolutely no doubt...most of them do devour the tithes. If I accept what you say as true...then God has to be paid to take action?....as in one of the benefits of tithing?...no tithe no rebuke from God? You seem to equate God....asking how to provoke Him to take action you want Him to.... isn't that blasphemy?
I suggest you read the Bible for yourself. To understand the issue about tithes you can start right here by studying....not reading....studying Ihedinobi3's comment.

CodeTemplar:
are you aware a born again christian is actually the modern day Jew/Israelite?
So by you own explanation up there Christ's blood covers provision in the church?

Somebody already beat me to the Mathew 23:23 defence so I will refer you there.

What covenant was Christ under when he quoted Matthew 23:23?

Well I won't quote any scripture to change any lazy mind here, cause Y'all didn't go to church today, neglecting the gathering of the Saint apparently.

Y'all in support of not tithing, cause y'all are too greedy with your income.
How many of you can boldly say you have consistently given up to 10% of your income to real charity in the last 6months, most can't boast of doing that, why? Because you're lovers of money, tithing is so hard for you, just like the rich young ruler couldn't go and give all he had to the poor then follow Jesus, you decided to hide under the fact that Jesus didn't expressly state we should tithe, you go and say Jesus has carried it away with the cross.

Well I tithe and I see strange spiritual happenings in my finances, if you don't, no problem, you won't go to hell afterall. Peace.

nairalandmod:
If thithe was so important why did Jesus never talked about it during his time?? I'm not sure he paid thithe during his time.

When u will not read ur bible.. ordinary Mathew 23v23 is hard for you...

kronos1:


[b]Well I tithe and I see strange spiritual happenings in my finances, if you don't, no problem, you won't go to hell afteral[/b]l. Peace.

Exactly why dumbos like you tithe. Your god is now a MMM owner so investing in MMM will make you richer. Very stupid set of people.

Why aren't tithers stupdendously rich?
Ain't their money rule enough to be doubled?

Pamijlove kindly throw more light into this matter

ollah2:



Exactly why dumbos like you tithe. Your god is now a MMM owner so investing in MMM will make you richer. Very stupid set of people.

Why aren't tithers stupdendously rich?
Ain't their money rule enough to be doubled?

Ola, you have the liberty to type whatever you want, don't abuse the liberty.

If all your investment was lost in MMM, as obvious in your reply, that is your business.

You don't tithe, and I'm pretty sure you're not stupendously rich.

How many real tithers have you been with?

nelsonoba:


Oh!! So you even know that in the early church, they were paying 100% tithe And yet today it is an impossible task for you to pay ordinary 10% which is the minimum God commanded??

I guess you still remember why God killed Ananias & Sapphira in the early church?? In case you don't know, I will tell you; They tried to pay 50% tithe instead of the 100% tithe that every other person in the church was paying at the time, and they lied to Apostle Peter and told him the money they brought was 100% tithe. God killed both of them for it.

Ohh God who fed you this humongous lies about Ananias and sapphira?

This is just the height of manipulation!
Eleyi gidigan....
Please I beg you study that verse in the bible and stop allowing erroneous or fraudulent pastors to brainwash you!
Every one sold their properties out of free will and gave to the apostles who used such to feed others who were in need!

The early Christians were never at any point in the bible obligated or demanded to pay a 100% of their properties sold!

Now Ananias and his wife after selling their own properties, agreed to keep some of the money while offering the rest to the apostles.....

When Ananias gave peter his own money,peter asked if this was the entire money from the sale of his property of which Ananias said yes.....
Peter,through the revelation from the holy spirit,discovered Ananias lied and confronted him saying he didn't have to lie since it was his money I could decide to give any amount at his disposal!

The reason Ananias and his wife sapahira died was because they "lied" not because they kept some money aside...after all,it was their money and had every right to offer anything according to peter!

If any one doubts me,check ACTS 5:1-11
Please peruse verse 4

Let's stop allowing erroneous or fraudulent pastors to keep manipulating scriptures to put believers in perpetual bondage!

Ihedinobi3:


But after the Lord Jesus died and resurrected, the Temple was destroyed and the priesthood ended. The New Law came into force and it was no longer right to pay a tithe. Not only is the system that the tithe was supposed to support no longer extant, there was an entirely new system with new requirements. The Church is spread out across the world with teachers everywhere doing their jobs to help believers grow. There is no point collecting the tithe in Jerusalem anymore since the teachers are both Jewish and Gentile and can be very far away from Jerusalem at any given time.

.

Please enlighten me...where do we draw the line...or let me rephrase..how do we decide which to pick...cos u people that use that line "after the death of Jesus" always seem to confuse me....
Jesus said something , u said after his death and temple destroyed means that particular thing he said in math23v23 doesn't stand anymore....so which of the things he said before his crusifiction is still standing and christains can practice....
U people keep saying the law is in still effect before Jesus died on the cross...by that logic of the law is still in effect...Jesus should allow the stonning of the adultrous woman, by that logic Jesus should allow divorce, he shouldn't go a step further saying even lusting after a woman is a sin, by that logic he shouldn't yet be able to forgive sins...because in luke7v48-59 he did forgive sins and people wondered who is this able to forgive sins.....please enlighten me..

Originalsly:


You're asking to provide Bible-backed arguments..... but where is yours to support what you are saying about God rebuking the devourer? ....and who exactly is the devourer?...the pastors?...absolutely no doubt...most of them do devour the tithes. If I accept what you say as true...then God has to be paid to take action?....as in one of the benefits of tithing?...no tithe no rebuke from God? You seem to equate God....asking how to provoke Him to take action you want Him to.... isn't that blasphemy?
I suggest you read the Bible for yourself. To understand the issue about tithes you can start right here by studying....not reading....studying Ihedinobi3's comment.

I laugh in megabytes. So God gave the devourer the tithe?

kronos1:




Ola, you have the liberty to type whatever you want, don't abuse the liberty.

If all your investment was lost in MMM, as obvious in your reply, that is your business.

You don't tithe, and I'm pretty sure you're not stupendously rich.

How many real tithers have you been with?

Oga tithe is a scam. Simple!!


Chanel your love, money and help to the less privileges. How difficult is that?

But no, you turned god to money doubler

1StopRudeness:

Please enlighten me...where do we draw the line...or let me rephrase..how do we decide which to pick...cos u people that use that line "after the death of Jesus" always seem to confuse me....
Jesus said something , u said after his death and temple destroyed means that particular thing he said in math23v23 doesn't stand anymore....so which of the things he said before his crusifiction is still standing and christains can practice....
U people keep saying the law is in still effect before Jesus died on the cross...by that logic of the law is still in effect...Jesus should allow the stonning of the adultrous woman, by that logic Jesus should allow divorce, he shouldn't go a step further saying even lusting after a woman is a sin, by that logic he shouldn't yet be able to forgive sins...because in luke7v48-59 he did forgive sins and people wondered who is this able to forgive sins.....please enlighten me..

The purpose of the law of moses was to show you ur sinful nature...however,the law could neither make you holy or justify you before God!
Hence,the law of moses was meant to lead you to Christ and then its job and purpose will come to an end!
If you want to know more about the annulment of the law of moses,read extensively Hebrews 7,8 and 9!
Also study Galatians 2,3 and 5!

There are many more but for now,study these ones and don't stop studying the scriptures!
As it regards whether the new covenant now implies that you should now kill or steal,I will stay no.....but offer you this scripture Romans 13:8-10

Hmm. Provoke kwa.
Una can use strong word to scam guilable followers.

CodeTemplar:
I laugh in megabytes. So God gave the devourer the tithe?

Bro I believe the purpose of your thread is to enlighten you and others about the question you asked!
Now being the one who wants to learn,you should be asking more questions to their submissions and not making it seem like you already know!
Secondly,I believe the teachings and instructions in Malachi are an extension of the laws of moses,the levitical priesthood and the old covenant!

For every law of moses in the old covenant, comes with an obligation to obey....failure to obey attracted punishments!
In the case of Israel not paying tithe as instructed by God in the law,they will attract devourers!

Now the question you should or may be asking is which covenant are you under?
Are you under the laws of moses?