bgees:

Ancient Egyptians were not Negroes like u and I. Lets stop the act of always pointing to Ancient Egypt as a positive African past. Just to let you know the mummy of a popular Egyptian Pharaoh , King Tut was tested, and his DNA was western European.

You either have an agenda or have accepted a lie as truth - either way you need to re-educate.

No Egyptian Mummy has EVER been tested to be "Western European". You will find this lie on some internet sites, but they are absolute bunkum. Go here to read the latest on DNA testing of pharaoh mummies (as of Feb. 2010) http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0217/King-Tut-DNA-testing-sheds-light-on-how-he-lived-and-died. You will see that such DNA tests have been done for a few mummies, and nobody has been able to test for their race.

What archaeology and Egyptian records tell us about the lineage of King Tut show that this included progenitors now known as Nubians - black Africans. Ancient Egypt was obviously a mix of complexions, and many of the rulers throughtout its 1000s years of history were clearly negroid. In addition, it is gradually being accepted that the word race is really of no value because there are no real ways to classify race. Researchers now use what are known as halotype groups: http://www.htmlsd.com/haplogroups.htm.

Everyone on this planet is AFRICAN, and those of us that remained or have moved back to the mother continent are so diverse that the word NEGRO doesn't mean much, just like with the word race.

If you are unable to read the detailed history books at least follow this link to get both sides of the Egyuptian issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Ancient_Egyptians, but reading recent history books, that have begun to correct past misinformation, will do you a world of good!

What is certain is that Egypt was the meeting point of AFRICA's ANCIENT, THE WORLD'S EARLIEST, AND LONGEST civilizations. Negros or whatever name you want to call us today were part of the mainstream of those civilizations at ALL LEVELS.

@bgees
"The revolution should start with every one of us. then from that, it would be collective".
----
This is still rather ambiguous. Please kindly say what should be done and how.

I just wanted everybody on this thread to know that caps28 is a racist who hates whites while living in Britain and whinning like a naughty woman all the time.

The guy is a joke

sage:

I just wanted everybody on this thread to know that caps28 is a racist who hates while living in Britain and whinning like a naughty woman all the time.

The guy is a joke

Sage you are a dumb fool, you know why? because you dont even understand the meaning of the word racist - if you had a braincell in your empty head you would understand that blacks can never be racist as racism is only possible if the perpetrator is in a position of power.  Racism by definition involves the use of power by one racial group to subjugate and oppress another racial group.  Braindead fools like yourself delight in repeating what the white media force feeds you ad nauseam. 

Go and educate yourself about your history and stop displaying your ignorance for the whole world to see, you illiterate.

koruji:

You either have an agenda or have accepted a lie as truth - either way you need to re-educate.

No Egyptian Mummy has EVER been tested to be "Western European". You will find this lie on some internet sites, but they are absolute bunkum. Go here to read the latest on DNA testing of pharaoh mummies (as of Feb. 2010) http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0217/King-Tut-DNA-testing-sheds-light-on-how-he-lived-and-died. You will see that such DNA tests have been done for a few mummies, and nobody has been able to test for their race.

What archaeology and Egyptian records tell us about the lineage of King Tut show that this included progenitors now known as Nubians - black Africans. Ancient Egypt was obviously a mix of complexions, and many of the rulers throughtout its 1000s years of history were clearly negroid. In addition, it is gradually being accepted that the word race is really of no value because there are no real ways to classify race. Researchers now use what are known as halotype groups: http://www.htmlsd.com/haplogroups.htm.

Everyone on this planet is AFRICAN, and those of us that remained or have moved back to the mother continent are so diverse that the word NEGRO doesn't mean much, just like with the word race.

If you are unable to read the detailed history books at least follow this link to get both sides of the Egyuptian issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Ancient_Egyptians, but reading recent history books, that have begun to correct past misinformation, will do you a world of good!

What is certain is that Egypt was the meeting point of AFRICA's ANCIENT, THE WORLD'S EARLIEST, AND LONGEST civilizations. Negros or whatever name you want to call us today were part of the mainstream of those civilizations at ALL LEVELS.

I think this issue is a case of trying to impose a modern day idea like race on an ancient society. There is no such thing like race and there are NO racial lines in the world genetically speaking. We are trying to use a modern day concept like race to measure an ancient society like Egypt

Im pretty sure Egyptian were bonded to each other by a common religion, culture, society etc irrespective of colour rather than what we have 2day with regards to a "White race", "Black race" etc which is just plain nonsense

cap28:

Sage you are a dumb fool, you know why? because you dont even understand the meaning of the word racist - if you had a braincell in your empty head you would understand that blacks can never be racist as racism is only possible if the perpetrator is in a position of power.  Racism by definition involves the use of power by one racial group to subjugate and oppress another racial group.  Braindead fools like yourself delight in repeating what the white media force feeds you ad nauseam. 

Go and educate yourself about your history and stop displaying your ignorance for the whole world to see, you illiterate.

You are a racist!!!!!

Even worse you are a racist who thinks he is a permanent victim. You keep telling yourself nonsense like "i cant be racist" in order to hide your racism

Keep crying little b.i.t.c.h

sage:

You are a racist!!!!!

Even worse you are a racist who thinks he is a permanent victim. You keep telling yourself nonsense like "i cant be racist" in order to hide your racism

Keep crying little b.i.t.c.h

Okay lets apply your skewed "logic" to a woman who is a victim of domestic abuse.

Is a woman who is being beaten black and blue by her husband or being told she is useless by him a victim of abuse or an abuser herself? 

If this same woman turns around to challenge her husband to say this is what you are doing to me and it is destroying me physically and emotionally does that make her an abuser?

Does the fact that she has decided to stop being a doormat and stand up to challenge his monstrous behaviour maker HER the abuser ?

Do you see why your argument is so flawed? It makes no sense to accuse a race of people who do not have a history of enslaving, murdering, subjugating and oppressing another race racists. Especially if that race of people have been victims of the aforementioned atrocities.

It also does not make sense to label a member of a race who does not have any control over a white person's ability to get a job, have access to education, healthcare or anyother thing which determines the socio economic success of a people, racist simply because they challenge the  injustice, unfairness and inequality in a white supremacist system. Especially if that race remain victims of that same system.

In your book a racist is someone who highlights the inequality, unfairness and ongoing exploitation and oppression that blacks continue to suffer at the hands of whites.

According to the upside down logic of sage - a person who is a victim of racism is racist for having the temerity to continue to bring to the attention of racist whites the difficulties, obstacles and bigotry that are very much entrenched as government policy in all countries of the world where whites are in the majority, according to the unhinged world of sage, blacks who find themselves on the receiving end of racism should shut up and put up as they are fortunate that slavery has been abolished and they are now free to live and work amongst whites despite the fact that they are still treated like second class citizens.

wow! - why do you call yourself sage when you do not exhibit wisdom in any shape or form?

why do they need it?
[img]http://s07.flagcounter.com/count/DymW/bg=000000/txt=000000/border=000000/columns=1/maxflags=1/viewers=3/labels=0/[/img]

cap28:

Sage you are a dumb fool, you know why? because you dont even understand the meaning of the word racist - if you had a braincell in your empty head you would understand that blacks can never be racist as racism is only possible if the perpetrator is in a position of power.  Racism by definition involves the use of power by one racial group to subjugate and oppress another racial group.  Braindead fools like yourself delight in repeating what the white media force feeds you ad nauseam. 

Go and educate yourself about your history and stop displaying your ignorance for the whole world to see, you illiterate.

* S: (n) racism (the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races)
* S: (n) racism, racialism, racial discrimination (discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race


Once U start discriminating against a race, whatever your reasons, you become a racist.


@OP: There's no denying the fact that there were great African civilizations before the arrival of Europeans on the scene, there's also no denying the fact that our ancestors were maltreated in a major way, however we have to realize that even the Germans and English were once colonized by Romans, who also regarded them as ignorant barbarians. Truth is, external influence has to come into play at some point in the history of all civilizations, a problem arises when we refuse to get beyond this colonization and continue blaming the whites for all our problems. I can swear that all the embezzling millitary dictators we've had weren't white.

Ajanlekoko said:
Hmm.
I still say it is irrelevant. It's all in the past. In today's world, to a large extent, Africans are fully complicit in their misfortunes.
Just like the early explorers saw opportunity in Africa's natural riches and the incredible naivete of her people, the Whites till today still see opportunity in our refusal to move past these issues and get on with the business of living.

A direct answer to your question would be: No, I don't think Africa would have amounted to much had all those things never happened anyway.
Since the beginning of civilization, the evolution of the great empires have never naturally happened, but were forced into being by massive global military campaigns anyway. I don't see any of the African empires post-Egypt that could have played on the world stage.
Colonization would have happened anyway.

Ajanlekoko statements like this make me very sad as they demonstrate ignorance on a huge scale.  Let me prove to you that what you have said is completely baseless.  

In January 1966 a group of educated and revolutionary minded igbo officers of the nigerian army realised that the nigerian people had been set up to fail by the british who rigged the 1959 elections in order to place in power a puppet govt predominantly made up of hausa fulani politicans, what did they do? - they tried to overthrow this powerful cabal.  How did that turn out? The British stirred up and instigated an inter ethnic clash between the igbos and the hausas claiming that the January coup was an igbo orchestrated coup - when in reality it was a revolutionary coup aimed at cutting out the cancer of foreign control and intervention that continues to plague the nigerian political scene to date.  

What happened after that? Over 50,000 igbos were mercilessly slaughtered in the northern part of nigeria by brainwashed northerners who thought that the January coup was about the igbos trying to seize control of the entire country.

When the igbos realised that if they remained within the nigerian construct their personal safety could not be guaranteed , they decided that the best option was to secede , that way they could  exercise their right to their own self determination.  When they made the decision to secede because they did not want to be part of an illegal contraption which had been created to serve foreign intersts what happened? - they were crushed and over  3million igbos lost their lives.

The reason i bring the civil war situation up is because - you make the following assertion "africans are complicit in their misfortune" - but that is patently untrue, I have used the igbos as an example who saw that nigeria as an entity was not serving the interests of igbo people in general infact it was working AGAINST the interests of the average igbo and in order to remedy that problem the igbos tried to break away from this situation in order to found and develop their own nation but were STOPPED from doing so by the british backed hausa fulani cabal, this should indicate to you that there are greater forces at play in the nigerian political system than you have been able to appreciate.

It is not enough to point fingers at tribalism, poor leadership, corruption - these are symptoms NOT causes of why nigeria and africa are in the state taht they are in.  No western power goes to war (world war II) over a continent  teeming with abundant natural resources only to hand it back to its indigenous people without a fight.   What im really saying is Africa is still under foreign control, africa is DELIBERATELY prevented from progressing economically and politically, any progressive african leader who tries to steer the continent away from western economic and political control usually meets with an untimely end, there are countless examples of former progressive african leaders who have been assasinated (thomas sankara), toppled (kwame nkrumah) and discredited (mugabe).  

You compare China to nigeria but you conveniently forget to mention that communist china experienced a bloody revolution and fought a long and protracted war against western backed chinese puppet govts in order to regain control over their country and make it what it is today, when the aforementioned group of revolutionaries tried the same thing in nigeria they were quickly crushed by the hausa fulani yoruba cabal.  Please try and look at the bigger picture.

ravenzord:

* S: (n) racism (the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races)
* S: (n) racism, racialism, racial discrimination (discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race


Once U start discriminating against a race, whatever your reasons, you become a racist.

Okay, so despite consulting  a dictionary to find out the meaning of the word you still don't understand what it means!!!

lets take the two definitions that you have cut and pasted and apply them to myself -

(n) racism (the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races) -

can you point out to me in any of my posts where i have stated that blacks are superior to whites?


[b](n) racism, racialism, racial discrimination (discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

again please highlight to me where I have, in any of my posts described being in a situation where i behaved in a discriminatory behaviour towards a white person simply because of the fact that they were white for example: have i ever mentioned being in a situation where i treated a non white person better than a white person simply because i do not like white people?

Can you also shed some light on how you think i may have used abusive language or behaviour towards a white person simply because of the fact that they were white?

Dr Ayo said: This thread would be useless and a complete waste of time if we don't discuss the way out of this mess we (the children) were born into. We have all had someone or something to blame for our misfortunes, but verily our children would blame us for doing nothing about it. No matter how inhumane the fathers might have gotten the wealth then, the children of europe now praise their fore-fathers for building their land, making them the "most superior" among all races.
-
So, please what do you think is the way out of these problems. Inferiority-complex is not genetic. Our children could be born into a life where they are so proud to be a black man. So proud! 'US would have to go to hell for all they care!' But how?
Please let us not be ambiguous but Realistic. This is how revolution starts. Remember the American Revolution? Also tell us how you plan to contribute to the revolution.

Dr Ayo, there are no easy answers because the world in which we live today is currently under the control and domination of the US empire, as you know there is no country in the world today that is capable of defeating the military might of the US.  In 2003 the US military were allocated a budget of $663 billion, which country on this earth can compete with that?

To put it bluntly we are in an extremely vulnerable position because even if we are able to oust the current puppet governments we have in place, we are not militarily strong enough to defend ourselves from foreign invasion, therefore our best option for now is to start off on a major overhaul of our educational system, this will enable us to prepare future generations of young people with the correct mindset that will enable them make decisions that will benefit nigerians and serve as an example to africans all over the world that the black race is not a race of backward failures that are incapable of self rule but a race of courageous people with foresight and great vision.

As you can see from a lot of the comments on this thread, we are still mentally enslaved.  The greatest damage that we experienced as a race was not just physical as in man power depletion through the transatlantic slave trade but through brainwashing.  Brainwashing was conducted by the missionaries who taught us to be ashamed of our indigenous animist religions and it also taught us to despise and be contemptuous of our african heritage.  That is why nigerians carry foreign religions like christianity and islam on their heads, you can't make more than two steps in any direction in nigeria without seeing a church or mosque and yet the country is no further forward for all its devout allegiance to religion.

You can see the long term effects of that on our people - the inability to think outside the eurocentric box, the inferiority complex, the idolising of eurocentricism and eurocentric values - the list goes on, notice how my criticism of white oppression is tagged "racist" by people who dont even understand what the word means -this is how far gone many of our people are.  So i would say start with teaching the younger generations the value of their own history, heritage and religions.

In order to become an economic force to be reckoned with we have to become an industrialised nation, but it is easier said than done, the west do not want us to ever become an industrialised nation as that will mean that we become economic competitors, with them, they have already consigned us to a position where we are suppliers of cheap natural resources which are used to fuel their own economies and ensure the continual development and enrichment of their transnational corporations.  Who would give up such a position without a fight?  It is not for nothing that america has over 700 military bases worldwide, the slightest sign of a country moving away from its designated role as dictated by the US or any other western controlled international institutions  could risk the threat of immediate invasion from troops stationed at a nearby US military base ( remember what happened to countries like biafra, zaire, burkina faso, zimbabwe, iraq, haiti,cuba, grenada, ecuador, and countless other countries which tried to break the stranglehold of US/western  hegemony in order to seek economic and political self determination).  So its not easy, Nigeria must find a non western power that does not seek to exploit or dominate it as an ally just the way Cuba did with the soviet union, but having said that i doubt that nigeria can successfully acheive this as one entity as it is too divided and has no unity of purpose.   

I think the above mentioned suggestions cover the main priorities for now.

What is all this talk about Eurocentricity?
Nigerians who studied History and Geography of Nigeria and Africa, read African literature, and grew up listening to Sunny Ade, Ebenezer Obey, Osita Osadebey and Dan Maraya are Eurocentric?
Even now Nigerians only watch Nigerian movies and listen to Naija beats?
The Afrocentric argument is theoretical and childish. Our problem is not lack of knoweldge of our history, our problem is lack of will to right the imperialist wrongs. Laziness, simple.
Let's continue lamenting marginalization while sitting on our lazy backsides. The good thing is some Africans like the Nigeri Delta Militants have decided to seize their future. Let the rest of us continue with our lazy intellectual arguments. Small wonder we were enslaved in the first place.

with regards to ancient egyptians, if you look at their depiction of themselves very well, if you study the art and examine the facial features as well as the color they paint themselves, you'll see that they closely resemble the beja people, very close resemblance. The beja are a people that live in northern Sudan today, they are an ancient people

Look at the boys eyes, and study some ancient egyptian self depicting art. Look at the girls hair style and her features as well and then look at ancient egyptians.

In all instances, you'll notice the resemblance thats if you're not die hard white lovers like sage or ezeagu!! furthermore, white is a disease, take a look at the gentleman who is turning white due to a medical condition after taking pills for his liver problem, I have never heard of a disease that turns you black but one sure does turn you white

@gadogado
You shouldn't say this kind of racist crap.

It just so happens that I saw a white young boy with a face similar to what you posted - he was obviously a caucasian - he was in the company of both his mum and brother, both caucasians, and the rest of body did not have any black pigmentation. Would it be right for us to conclude then that the black part of his face makes black a disease?

The issue of race was used to deadly advantage against Africans by wicked caucasians for hundreds of years, perhaps thousands, but that doesn't mean that we need to go in the opposite direction. What we need is to lay bare those lies, liberate our people from the psychological damage of those ages, and work together for a prosperous world.

gadogado:

In all instances, you'll notice the resemblance thats if you're not die hard white lovers like sage or ezeagu!! furthermore, white is a disease, take a look at the gentleman who is turning white due to a medical condition after taking pills for his liver problem, I have never heard of a disease that turns you black but one sure does turn you white

The thing about blissful ignorance is that it enables you to assume a false sense of reality in which you live in a parrallel universe where you are able to convince yourself that you are above others when in reality every person of any race other than black treats you as an inferior.  Is there any country in this world where you as a black man can go to and you will be accorded the same level of respect that men of other races are accorded? - Hold that thought for a moment.

You continue to delude yourself into thinking that you are equal to a white man when time and time again the white man continues to disregard, insult and disrespect everything about your race and history and  yet you call ME a racist.

Your myopic state prevents you from facing up to the truth of who you are, in keeping with your delusionary mindset you refuse to acknowledge or take on board any discussion or critique about race, racism and the oppression of black people in general.

To make matters worse you live in a country that has a terrible track record with regard to race but as far as you are concerned none of this is of any importance to you.

Texazzpete far from being my better you are my inferior because you are totally desensitised to who you are and where you have come from, i can only feel nothing but pity for you.   

You tell Him cap, educate that boy

I just wanted everybody on this thread to know that caps28 is a racist who hates whites while living in Britain and whinning like a naughty woman all the time.

The guy is a joke

   

That's a Damn LIE

Cap is THE most educated on African History in this thread and probably in this entire forum

you would do best to head what he says and FIND THE BOOKS ON AFRICAN history and educated YOURSELF on YOUR history.

Obviously, you have been raised with a White person's SLANT on your history, ONLY the people that KNOW their true history KNOWS from which they came.

Recognize BLACK INTELLIGENCE when you are in the midst of it.

chump

Let us not forget that African people were creating works of art that were attributed to Atlantis.

We Africans have fallen. Our empires were great, our cultures were rich. But now look at the continent.

Great Benin was very great, but how many people in Benin City know how to make these works of art like their ancestors?

Let us take it to East Africa, and while many Europeans were painting their faces blue, Ancient Ethiopia was building churches out of stone.

MandingoII:


That's a Damn LIE

Cap is THE most educated on African History in this thread and probably in this entire forum

you would do best to head what he says and FIND THE BOOKS ON AFRICAN history and educated YOURSELF on YOUR history.

Obviously, you have been raised with a White person's SLANT on your history, ONLY the people that KNOW their true history KNOWS from which they came.

Recognize BLACK INTELLIGENCE when you are in the midst of it.

chump

thank you bro, Ive given up on the likes of sage, his level of reasoning is pathetic.

@EzeUche22
What is wrong with you?

You are contributing to a thread defending African civilization, but you could not cut through your fog of "prejudice" against Yoruba Africans.

The first image you posted is [size=20pt]NOT [/size] from Benin. This is the full standing statueof an [size=20pt]ANCIENT OONI OF IFE[/size], and nobody has ever attempted to pass it off as Benin art, [size=20pt]EXCEPT YOU EZEUCHE[/size].

Cure yourself by visiting and learning about that image in the recent [size=20pt]Exhibition of Ancient Ife Art at the British Museum[/size]:
http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on/all_current_exhibitions/kingdom_of_ife/kingdom_of_ife_videos/a_night_at_the_museum.aspx

Do you know what he is holding in his left hand? Go and find out.

EzeUche22:

Let us take it to East Africa, and while many Europeans were painting their faces blue, Ancient Ethiopia was building churches out of stone.

Caps is a complete racist and a complete joke. His hatred has been going on for years and is not going to take him anywhere but to permanent wallowing in endless self-pity. I feel sorry for his children if he has any. To instill this woeful mentality in them is a condemnation of a lifetime that is worse than the death penalty.

Additionally


@Mandingo

I get tired of Americans coming on this site with their crap. If Mandingo or any other person thinks that his "Brodas" or Sistas" built Egypt, they need to take their case to an Egyptian forum of better yet go to Egypt and collect what their "Brodas" and "Sistas" kept for them!
Its a very simple solution.

Make person hear word abeg!

@ gagogado

Guy you just dey yarn dust. Complete okpata

koruji,

Give me a break! I made a mistake lol

I have no problem with Yoruba (Africans). I love my fellow African brothers and sisters. I just thought it was a Benin sculpture.

Radiocarbon dating placed the sites around the 10th century or earlier, which would make the Igbo-Ukwu culture the earliest known examples of bronze casting in Nigeria, centuries before the more famous Ife bronzes.

gadogado:

In all instances, you'll notice the resemblance thats if you're not die hard white lovers like sage or ezeagu!!

Whaaat are you talking about?

we will still be at the stone age

lekside44:

we will still be at the stone age

Wrong. We left the Stone Age a long time ago in Africa. Our people were making Bronze Statues and other art, while the Europeans were running wild and they were painting their faces blue and purple.

@Mandingo

I get tired of Americans coming on this site with their crap. If Mandingo or any other person thinks that his "Brodas" or Sistas" built Egypt, they need to take their case to an Egyptian forum of better yet go to Egypt and collect what their "Brodas" and "Sistas" kept for them!
Its a very simple solution.

Make person hear word abeg!

@ gagogado

Guy you just dey yarn dust. Complete okpata

Dude you are so BRAINWASHED by the Hegemonic MEDIA and Western American practices ,  you have no Idea that this was their plan.

You do not see that you HATE YOURSELF, YOUR CULTURE, YOUR PEOPLE and you blame them for their lack of progression and their OWN unfortunate lot in life.

NEVERMIND that WESTERNERS are holding the African Economy,government, and people hostage with their DECEITFUL ways of doing business.


you are so PREOCCUPIED with trying to BE THEM , (while they systematically reject you) that you HAVE BECOME THEIR AGENT of REPRESSION towards your own people.

you a SELL-OUT, A FAKE, A CHARLATAN, A BROOOHAHA,

and you really should not be arguing with people WITH KNOWN KNOWLEDGE of African History.

to anwser the QUESTION:

Africa without Slavery and colonization,

If the Europeans would have traded FAIRLY with Africa, Africa would be a VERY WEALTHY CONTINENT TODAY.

You see,

Africa has Diamonds, Gold, Food, wood, Ivory and PEOPLE (LABOR) to produce and substain itself (these were 1600's riches)

If I trade with you guns for your gold and YOU KNEW the value of your GOLD, you would have to give me a HELLUVA lot of guns to get my gold.

Instead, THE EUROPEANS CHEATED, LIED, KILLED AND IMPOVERISHED Africa.

This is still happening today.

Moral of the story, If the Europeans would have traded EQUALLY with Africa the same way they Traded with each other, some Parts of Africa would be as Developed as Europe.

today's Africa Riches are in the HANDS OF WESTERN CORPORATIONS, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_industry_of_Africa


sO YOU SEE, yesterday (Slavery & Colonization) is still being experienced today.