Kaycee7: My only argument with Ihedinobi is his point about the sage getting the rinnegan from the juubi. I maintain the motion that the sage had the rinnegan before becoming the juubi's jinchuriki.

Baddestguyp: Of course d sosp had the rinnegan right 4rm wen he was young visit google n check out kishi's story of the sosp. He awoke it wen he was in danger afta his fada was killed

KazeKage1:
The Nidaime doesn't know zilch about using senjutsu but is still in the mix.

rapmike:
D 2nd can teleport,so 4 transport,he is useful. Sakura cnt do such

Ihedinobi:
Honestly, I'm not sure what point you're making here. We know that his sons got his powers. My argument is that his ocular powers derived from the Juubi, thus the Elder who inherited those inherited them as transferable characteristics from the Juubi Jinchuuriki - a Kekkei Genkai. I said that was possible because if an ordinary bijuu jinchuuriki could acquire the bijuu's characteristics even temporarily, how much more permanently can the Juubi Jinchuuriki have them? And if he can have them permanently as part of his genetic makeup, why the heck can he not transfer them as kekkei genkai to his children? Consider that, contrary to your insistence, the Juubi is not just pure living chakra, it is the creator and destroyer of all things. That, sir, is a big fricking deal.


You did note where I said that it was a weak example, did you not? Regardless, you appear to be implying that the bijuu aren't anything special. Gaara without the one-tail, according to you, is just as powerful as Gaara with the one-tail, that is, if Gaara had never been a Jinchuuriki he'd have been just as powerful as when he was one. That's rather curious considering that everyone in Narutoverse seems to think that possessing at least one bijuu made them more powerful.

Besides, I don't really know about this 60% chakra used to suppress bijuu thing. Where'd you get that?


Bros, the bolded is what is called in argument "the straw man fallacy". You misrepresented my argument to mean that I inferred from the old Sennin's defeat of the Juubi that there was no ninjutsu before their fight. Can you point out where exactly I said so?

What I did say is that there was no ninjutsu in the world before that fight. I never inferred it from anything. It's too much work right now for me to go fetch the manga pages for evidence but I think you'll find it where Tobi was explaining about the Sennin. Until the Sennin sealed the Juubi, nobody could mold chakra and thus nobody could do ninjutsu.

I don't understand the bit about manifestations and the rinnegan's being ludicrous or whatever. What about the manifestations of the bijuu? How do they prove that the claim that the rinnegan is a characteristic of the Juubi is ludicrous?

Tosyn007:
Assuming the juubi really altered the Rikudo's dna as you claim, why weren't his children born with the rinnegan?

Ihedinobi:

One had "his eyes", remember? The other had his body. If you're asking why both didn't have his eyes, then I'd ask you why both had to.

KazeKage1:
Sakura can heal using Katsuya* to split her chakra.

Tosyn007:

Then you're saying the Rikudo got his life force after becoming the jinchuriki of the ten tails?

Ihedinobi:

I'm sure it's not my eyes but I've seen no argument backing this "motion" of yours. What is your argument beyond the fact that you wish it to be true, bro?

Kaycee7: I don't wish it to be true. You're the only person saying that the juubi grants rinnegan.

Feraz: ...Rikoudo had his rinnegan before battling the juubi but it seems like the juubi increased the power of the rinnegan...

tayoccu: Would it kill you to wait 4 Kishi to sort out this ish?

Ihedinobi:

I am saying that? Pray tell, how am I saying any such thing?

Tosyn007:


He shared his eyes with one, then his body(mainly his life force) with the other, now since you are saying juubi is to rinnegan as rikudo is to life force, how come the first child inherited the power of the rinnegan(albeit weaker) which supposedly belongs to the juubi, and the younger child inherited the body which belongs to Rikudo which also means that the younger didnt inherited any power of the juubi, is that it?

Ihedinobi:

I am saying the bolded?! Me? I don't even understand what it means, how can I be the one who said it?

Edit: However, you are the one equating "the body" to "life force". I did not. The Senju are known for a powerful affinity for all kinds of Ninjutsu and a buttload of chakra. Perhaps that was the legacy of the Juubi. I only know for sure that before ever he became the Juubi Jinchuuriki the old Sennin had a very powerful lifeforce that made him capable of beating the Juubi and sealing him into his body.

Tosyn007:
so if the body doesnt mean the sage's life force which you agree that he had before defeating the juubi, what else does it entail, they had affinity for various jutsu cos they had the physical life force to execute them...

Ihedinobi:

Prove it.

Feraz: ^^^
Me thinks it is only elemental based techniques that affect Obito. Rasengan is not an elemental technique but just pure chakra like the bijuudama, compressed and rotated. There may be another reason but I'm still trying to figure out how to put it. It has something to do with senjutsu increasing the force of your attack....

Feraz: ^^^
Me thinks it is only elemental based techniques that affect Obito. Rasengan is not an elemental technique but just pure chakra like the bijuudama, compressed and rotated. There may be another reason but I'm still trying to figure out how to put it. It has something to do with senjutsu increasing the force of your attack....

opestein:
dude,only senjustu can affect obito
senjustu has to do with natural/nature energy..doesn't require elemental chakra or so

opestein:
dude,only senjustu can affect obito
senjustu has to do with natural/nature energy..doesn't require elemental chakra or so

Feraz: did I just get myself into this argument?
Pray tell, can you explain how Obito got the sage's staff as he became a jinchuuriki taking into consideration that the Sage had it before defeating the juubi?

For the thing I wrote above, I just speculated from the manga episode of 'Declaration of war' that the sage had the rinnegan but the juubi's power enhanced it. Then again, you may be correct about him not having it taking into consideration that the eye of the juubi is a mixture of the concentric circles of the rinnegan and the tomoes of the sharingan of which it may not be possible in the Narutoverse for a man and a god being the juubi - the creator and destroyer of all things to have the same eyes.

Feraz: did I just get myself into this argument?
Pray tell, can you explain how Obito got the sage's staff as he became a jinchuuriki taking into consideration that the Sage had it before defeating the juubi?

For the thing I wrote above, I just speculated from the manga episode of 'Declaration of war' that the sage had the rinnegan but the juubi's power enhanced it. Then again, you may be correct about him not having it taking into consideration that the eye of the juubi is a mixture of the concentric circles of the rinnegan and the tomoes of the sharingan of which it may not be possible in the Narutoverse for a man and a god being the juubi - the creator and destroyer of all things to have the same eyes.