Feraz: did I just get myself into this argument?
Pray tell, can you explain how Obito got the sage's staff as he became a jinchuuriki taking into consideration that the Sage had it before defeating the juubi?

I have no idea yet. It's probably the same way that Naruto got the Sennin's cloak and his necklace.

For the thing I wrote above, I just speculated from the manga episode of 'Declaration of war' that the sage had the rinnegan but the juubi's power enhanced it. Then again, you may be correct about him not having it taking into consideration that the eye of the juubi is a mixture of the concentric circles of the rinnegan and the tomoes of the sharingan of which it may not be possible in the Narutoverse for a man and a god being the juubi - the creator and destroyer of all things to have the same eyes.

This is pretty much all I demand - some analysis at least. Speculation is all well and good as long as we don't forget that it is only speculation. What I offered is an argument for a position I've taken. I may be proved Kishi eventually but not without his accounting for all the various components I related to arrive at my conclusions.

Caution: the theory is not originally mine. I only bought into it because it makes a great deal of sense to me. Honor to whom it is due. Its originator was referred to several pages back. He's a poster on Narutobase.

Feraz: I meant doesn't. No vex Bros....na English cause am. . but the explanation below for tell you say na mistake

no prob

Ihedinobi:
I have no idea yet. It's probably the same way that Naruto got the Sennin's cloak and his necklace.


This is pretty much all I demand - some analysis at least. Speculation is all well and good as long as we don't forget that it is only speculation. What I offered is an argument for a position I've taken. I may be proved Kishi eventually but not without his accounting for all the various components I related to arrive at my conclusions.

Caution: the theory is not originally mine. I only bought into it because it makes a great deal of sense to me. Honor to whom it is due. Its originator was referred to several pages back. He's a poster on Narutobase.

To get where you're comingfrom, you want peeps here to clarify whether it is fact providing the evidence or mere speculations that they give here? Then again, read the declaration of war ie if you have the time and tell me what you can draw from there as I stated above.

Feraz:
To get where you're comingfrom, you want peeps here to clarify whether it is fact providing the evidence or mere speculations that they give here? Then again, read the declaration of war ie if you have the time and tell me what you can draw from there as I stated above.

What chapter was that again? Remind me, if you don't mind, and I'll read it later.

KazeKage1: Where did the byakugan come from? Who's the ancestor of the Hyuuga clan?
If the rinnegan grants you the ability to use six paths, why didn't Obito's six paths use the techniques Nagato's used?
If Rasengan/Rasenshuriken is NOT a senjutsu technique(he does them without getting into SM), how in the world is it able to affect Obito?

naruto suffers damage wen using rasenshruiken in normal mode bt can use it comfortably in sage mode so i tink it has a connection to senjutsu

KazeKage1:
Keep trying

I will oh....

Why do we say Naruto's SM lasts for 5 minutes? Wouldn't it have been possible for it to last longer if he doesn't use rasenshuriken?

Ihedinobi:

What chapter was that again? Remind me, if you don't mind, and I'll read it later.

467

KazeKage1: Where did the byakugan come from? Who's the ancestor of the Hyuuga clan?
If the rinnegan grants you the ability to use six paths, why didn't Obito's six paths use the techniques Nagato's used?
If Rasengan/Rasenshuriken is NOT a senjutsu technique(he does them without getting into SM), how in the world is it able to affect Obito?

The Byakugan? Where did Haku's, Oonoki's (?) and the Mizukage's kekkei genkai and kekkei totta come from?

I didn't notice that Obito's six paths used different techniques. Or do you mean that they just did not use the same techniques as Nagato?

Sounds like a legitimate puzzle to me.

KazeKage1: Where did the byakugan come from? Who's the ancestor of the Hyuuga clan?
If the rinnegan grants you the ability to use six paths, why didn't Obito's six paths use the techniques Nagato's used?
If Rasengan/Rasenshuriken is NOT a senjutsu technique(he does them without getting into SM), how in the world is it able to affect Obito?

Come to think of it, the byakugan may be the sage's original eyes. If we follow Ihedinobi's point of argument of the sage possessing the rinnegan after sealing the juubi, it therefore makes sense that both eyes decided to come to agreement that the sage should possess the rinnegan without the tomoe and his original eye technique should be seen in his descendants...

Sounds stupid right? Where eyes are now agreeing....

Feraz:
Come to think of it, the byakugan may be the sage's original eyes. If we follow Ihedinobi's point of argument of the sage possessing the rinnegan after sealing the juubi, it therefore makes sense that both eyes decided to come to agreement that the sage should possess the rinnegan without the tomoe and his original eye technique should be seen in his descendants...

Sounds stupid right? Where eyes are now agreeing....

Guys na, if there was no ninjutsu before the old Sennin defeated the Juubi, there were no kekkei genkai. There were no byakugans, no sharingans, no ice whatever (Haku's kekkei genkai), no poison mists, no jintons, no rinnegans...at least in humans. These peculiarities would start to manifest automatically with the unlocked ability to mold chakra, would they not?

Perhaps the byakugan is a bloodline from the Elder son, perhaps it is not. The one thing thag is certain is that it does not have to be anymore than Haku'sclan had to descend from the old Sennin to have a kekkei genkai.

Ihedinobi:

Guys na, if there was no ninjutsu before the old Sennin defeated the Juubi, there were no kekkei genkai. There were no byakugans, no sharingans, no ice whatever (Haku's kekkei genkai), no poison mists, no jintons, no rinnegans...at least in humans. These peculiarities would start to manifest automatically with the unlocked ability to mold chakra, would they not?

Perhaps the byakugan is a bloodline from the Elder son, perhaps it is not. The one thing thag is certain is that it does not have to be anymore than Haku'sclan had to descend from the old Sennin to have a kekkei genkai.

hence why I said according to your theory but if he's a normal human, then it may be that he possesses a powerful life force before acquiring the juubi. The guy fit be witch doctor sef...

Ihedinobi:
Perhaps the byakugan is a bloodline from the Elder son, perhaps it is not. The one thing that is certain is that it does not have to be anymore than Haku'sclan had to descend from the old Sennin to have a kekkei genkai.

3 doujutsus were mentioned as part of the "Three Great Eye" techniques of which the Byakugan is one of them, this is nothing to do with bloodline limits or anything.
I'll go with someone's suggestion that the RS had Byakugan at some point in his life, then lost someone (Sharingan/MS), then fought the Juubi and got the rinnegan as compensation.
But then, there's the silly idea that Byakugan ---> S ---> MS ---> EMS ---> Rinnegan. Well, he's a sage, he can do anything.

it is said that the sosp is the first person to perform a ninjustu and he is the first person to mold chakra and found the basis of all justu including elements cos he could use all types of elements..so he is the father/founder/boss/badoo of all ninjas..read more about him on naruto wikia

opestein: it is said that the sosp is the first person to perform a ninjustu and he is the first person to mold chakra and found the basis of all justu including elements cos he could use all types of elements..so he is the father/founder/boss/badoo of all ninjas..read more about him on naruto wikia

*facepalm*

Ihedinobi:

What point exactly are you trying to make? I fail to see how affinity for all kinds of jutsu results from having a powerful life force. Naruto has a very powerful life force, how many jutsus have you seen him execute?

yea? How many people have affinity for senjutsu?

Ihedinobi:

Guys na, if there was no ninjutsu before the old Sennin defeated the Juubi, there were no kekkei genkai. There were no byakugans, no sharingans, no ice whatever (Haku's kekkei genkai), no poison mists, no jintons, no rinnegans...at least in humans. These peculiarities would start to manifest automatically with the unlocked ability to mold chakra, would they not?

Perhaps the byakugan is a bloodline from the Elder son, perhaps it is not. The one thing thag is certain is that it does not have to be anymore than Haku'sclan had to descend from the old Sennin to have a kekkei genkai.

But Rikodo was adjudged to have had a kekkei genkai namely rinnegan. The Rikudo was said to be teaching peopple how to mold chakra and not create them which means this people had chakra in them already and also kekkei genkai as the case may be.

KazeKage1:
*facepalm*

wat happened to u?

Pls,ur argument is becuming 2much! Aha 2wks over RS and weda he got eyes 4rm juubi? Na wetin na? Kishi sef no fit dey argue like una sef,u don turn argument 2 competition. By d way i want 2 do anoda poll. In dis juubi/jubito arc, hw has provd most useles(since d alliance shwn up). My pick is kiba and Bee.

Guyz abeg make una complimente d manga wit the A#im£

rapmike: Pls,ur argument is becuming 2much! Aha 2wks over RS and weda he got eyes 4rm juubi? Na wetin na? Kishi sef no fit dey argue like una sef,u don turn argument 2 competition. By d way i want 2 do anoda poll. In dis juubi/jubito arc, hw has provd most useles(since d alliance shwn up). My pick is kiba and Bee.

i'd say Lee, konohamaru, iruka, yamato

KazeKage1:
3 doujutsus were mentioned as part of the "Three Great Eye" techniques of which the Byakugan is one of them, this is nothing to do with bloodline limits or anything.
I'll go with someone's suggestion that the RS had Byakugan at some point in his life, then lost someone (Sharingan/MS), then fought the Juubi and got the rinnegan as compensation.
But then, there's the silly idea that Byakugan ---> S ---> MS ---> EMS ---> Rinnegan. Well, he's a sage, he can do anything.

Are you then taking the position that human beings were molding chakra and doing ninjutsu before the Sennin's fight with the Juubi?

Tosyn007:

yea? How many people have affinity for senjutsu?

Nna na wa o! What jutsu is Senjutsu?

Tosyn007:

But Rikodo was adjudged to have had a kekkei genkai namely rinnegan.

Adjudged by who to have it when?

The Rikudo was said to be teaching peopple how to mold chakra and not create them which means this people had chakra in them already and also kekkei genkai as the case may be.

When did he start the teaching? Who said anything about creating anything?

Ihedinobi:

Are you then taking the position that human beings were molding chakra and doing ninjutsu before the Sennin's fight with the Juubi?

The RS was more of a hermit travelling to different parts of the narutoverse. The juubi is a mass of hatred i.e. It fed on the growing hate of people. If the ten-tails was/is the source of all chakra and there were people living in despair long before the RS came to bail them out, then there's a slight possibility that these people knew about the chakra around them.

Feraz: Where are the kunoichis in the house? Firestar, Fellis, Taioluv, Miss Ope, tskjii? See what a man can do cos of love.
...............
Are you guys still arguing about Rikoudo Sennin, the juubi and the rinnegan?

Nani?

(_{Checks back after a few pages....})

Alright guys, knock it off.
Make your comments brief, and to the point.
And if you need me for something important ... summon me.

Ihedinobi:

Are you then taking the position that human beings were molding chakra and doing ninjutsu before the Sennin's fight with the Juubi?

Another argument coming up...

Let us all not forget that it is said that the Uchiha descended from the Sage's first son who inherited the Sage's eyes. As shown in the manga and anime, we see the son having spiral eyes which isn't the same as the Sage. Now, many generations passed and the Uchiha descended from the 1st son. Looking at it, you find out that between the first son of the Sage and the Uchiha clan, a lot must have happened like the dojutsu with the exception of the rinnegan being separated. The Hyuuga must have also descended from the Sage's first son since he inherited the eyes. I can therefore lay claim to the fact that the Hyuuga is a distant cousin to the Uchiha as the Uzumaki is to the Senju.

KazeKage1: Where did the byakugan come from? Who's the ancestor of the Hyuuga clan?
If the rinnegan grants you the ability to use six paths, why didn't Obito's six paths use the techniques Nagato's used?
If Rasengan/Rasenshuriken is NOT a senjutsu technique(he does them without getting into SM), how in the world is it able to affect Obito?

Wen naruto is in sage mode, his charkra is mixed wit natural charkra. So, all his charkra based ninjutsu r infused wit natural charkra. And imo, senjutsu is basically jutsu infused wit natural charkra. Dats d reason y SM Naruto's rasengan can hurt juubito (juubified obito).

Ihedinobi:

Nna na wa o! What jutsu is Senjutsu?

Sage mode, or doesn't it come under jutsus?

Ihedinobi:
Adjudged by who to have it when?


When did he start the teaching? Who said anything about creating anything?

A rinnegan is a kekkei genkai and anyone who has two or more chakra affinity could at some point develop a kekkei genkai..

SageNaruto:
Wen naruto is in sage mode, his charkra is mixed wit natural charkra. So, all his charkra based ninjutsu r infused wit natural charkra. And imo, senjutsu is basically jutsu infused wit natural charkra. Dats d reason y SM Naruto's rasengan can hurt juubito (juubified obito).

thank you for putting it in words. Exactly what I wanted to say but you just helped me out

KazeKage1:
The RS was more of a hermit travelling to different parts of the narutoverse. The juubi is a mass of hatred i.e. It fed on the growing hate of people. If the ten-tails was/is the source of all chakra and there were people living in despair long before the RS came to bail them out, then there's a slight possibility that these people knew about the chakra around them.

Dude, I did not ask if you hold that they knew about chakra, I asked if it is your position that ninjutsu and chakra-molding predated the Old Sennin's battle with the Juubi. Is it?

Besides, the part of the story where Naruto trued to measure the Juubi's power has something to say about whether the Juubi feeds on hatred or not.

Feraz:
Another argument coming up...

Let us all not forget that it is said that the Uchiha descended from the Sage's first son who inherited the Sage's eyes. As shown in the manga and anime, we see the son having spiral eyes which isn't the same as the Sage. Now, many generations passed and the Uchiha descended from the 1st son. Looking at it, you find out that between the first son of the Sage and the Uchiha clan, a lot must have happened like the dojutsu with the exception of the rinnegan being separated. The Hyuuga must have also descended from the Sage's first son since he inherited the eyes. I can therefore lay claim to the fact that the Hyuuga is a distant cousin to the Uchiha as the Uzumaki is to the Senju.

Is it possible that the Byakugan derived from the Rinnegan? Of course, is that the only possibility? Certainly not, in fact it isn't even the strongest possibility.

Tosyn007:
Sage mode, or doesn't it come under jutsus?

Since when is a mode the same as a jutsu or technique?