Darui, Itachi was stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the Uchiha clan went on with their coup and caused a civil war, according to the council, it would leave the village open to external attacks. Sandaime was eager to sort out the Uchiha -without- bloodshed... Danzou on the other hand was a warhawk. He and Hiruzen do not see eye to eye.
Shisui wanted to stop Danzou and ended up having his eye removed. If Shisui returned to the clan in that state, that's enough spark to trigger what both Uchiha heirs tried to prevent: civil war. Remember, the Uchiha as a whole served as Konoha's state police unit. It showed what they were capable of.
So Itachi was given a choice.
.
Seriously eyoniggar, I hinted pages ago that Gai should be hired in NYSC...

eyoniggar: Edo Tensei has been stopped, Madara is already feeling it,he vanishes soon there is,Tobi sweating knowing fully well Kabuto has failed.

Tobi had a plan for destroying the leaf before Kabuto came along. The only problem He'll have is if Sasuke backs down, which is very unlikely

firestar: Darui, Itachi was stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the Uchiha clan went on with their coup and caused a civil war, according to the council, it would leave the village open to external attacks. Sandaime was eager to sort out the Uchiha -without- bloodshed... Danzou on the other hand was a warhawk. He and Hiruzen do not see eye to eye.
Shisui wanted to stop Danzou and ended up having his eye removed. If Shisui returned to the clan in that state, that's enough spark to trigger what both Uchiha heirs tried to prevent: civil war. Remember, the Uchiha as a whole served as Konoha's state police unit. It showed what they were capable of.
So Itachi was given a choice.
.
Seriously eyoniggar, I hinted pages ago that Gai should be hired in NYSC...

This is what I'm saying. We know all this already. it was just confirmed and detailed now. I was trying to know whether some new information was added. For instance, Tobi's identity. I think Itachi thinks Tobi is madara. That's inaccurate.
And Itachi is my favorite character. I said it a while ago. He chose. It was necessary. The lesser evil.
Man, I was thinking maybe, just maybe, Tobi killed the uchiha. What did Tobi do EXACTLY? Itachi should have explained this. Or maybe when sasuke meet Tobi again, everything will be revealed.

And Rapmike, there you have it. What Itachi left for sasuke. It is not a jutsu.

Darui:
This is what I'm saying. We know all this already. it was just confirmed and detailed now. I was trying to know whether some new information was added. For instance, Tobi's identity. I think Itachi thinks Tobi is madara. That's inaccurate.
And Itachi is my favorite character. I said it a while ago. He chose. It was necessary. The lesser evil.
Man, I was thinking maybe, just maybe, Tobi killed the uchiha. What did Tobi do EXACTLY? Itachi should have explained this. Or maybe when sasuke meet Tobi again, everything will be revealed.

Okay.
Let's dig deeper.
Tobi is 'No One'. That's sounds wierd and smells fishy.
-We now know info about the Rinnegan through Madara.
-This 'nobody' is harvesting rubies and opals and he has access to the Uchiha sacred stone tablet.
-Madara knows this 'Tobi' and well as Nagato.
-Kabuto is a spy. He's onto something or else he won't wave the real Madara like some talisman.
.
Please add more observations.

Lady, you can observe nice.

More observations.
Kabuto knows the identity of Tobi. But right now, he's a dead end. He knows Tobi to be a PERSON as opposed to no one.
The manner Kabuto negotiated/compromised with Tobi shows he thinks Tobi's power is same as Madara.
(rinnegan and all).
Tobi has no BODY.
He seems old.
His array of jutsu(especially doujutsu) is incredibly limited considering he wields so many sharingans.
Itachi thinks Tobi is Madara. He referred to him as BOTH madara and tobi.(Ambiguous).
Tobi's help was more in a training capacity. He did not partake in the actual massacre of the Uchiha.
Itachi killed everyone....except Sasuke for reasons of love and innocence.
Danzo sealed the fate of the Uchiha. He effectively limited the choices of the players.(I think the first to be killed by itachi should have been Danzo).
A civil war could have been prevented by Shisui. Danzo stopped it. WHY? WHY? It is not in Konoha interest to eliminate their most powerful clan.

^some may come off as my opinion. Sorry.

And to all of una calling Gai gay, I m frowning sternly.
How dare you call the green beast, embodiment of virility, ADD sufferer, ridiculous custom-wearing, narcissistic, masochistic,...............

One more
Tobi is a spelling variant of Obito :-D

Even better
Tobi is short for TOBI/rama.
Uchiha Tobi is the second hokage!!!

One problem(bigger than Ibadan)
MOTIVEs??

...you know, actually said something similar some time through the previous pages but then again, he's been sealed with the death reaper technique...
I've been saying it....guy's gay.....and has only feelings for kakashi......thank God lee didn't follow his path when it comes to love......
....another observation...when tobi lost his arm against foo, a whitish like liquid came out but not blood.....but when he fought the fourth, both blood and the whitish liquid gushed out....

u guys are funny.. but i still stand on my ground as regards tobi..HE IS A MADARA/ZETSU CLONE..he may not be as strong as madara or even itachi as per sharingan, but he is smarter than both

codeaddict: One more
Tobi is a spelling variant of Obito :-D

No way. Obito no offence intended, had more morale than Kakashi.
Shisui too. According to Itachi, Naruto closely resembled Shisui in heart.
So scratch them both.

firestar:
No way. Obito no offence intended, had more morale than Kakashi.
Shisui too. According to Itachi, Naruto closely resembled Shisui in heart.
So scratch them both.

A rock fell on the right side of Obito's face. When Tobi's mask got damaged while fighting Konan, The right half of His face was wrinkled.
Although there's no motive for Obito to hate the Leaf, he might be a container...

codeaddict:
A rock fell on the right side of Obito's face. When Tobi's mask got damaged while fighting Konan, The right half of His face was wrinkled.
Although there's no motive for Obito to hate the Leaf, he might be a container...

Tobi has no real physical body. He can detach arms like its nothing. We see white liquid(as if his hand is melting) whenever he's wounded(and blood too).
In short, obito cannot be a physical container for Tobi.
I'm not ruling anything out,mind you.

Ready, aim, dustbin

Darui:
Tobi has no real physical body. He can detach arms like its nothing. We see white liquid(as if his hand is melting) whenever he's wounded(and blood too).
In short, obito cannot be a physical container for Tobi.
I'm not ruling anything out,mind you.

Ready, aim, dustbin

Hmmm not really, Tobi did lose an arm in a world where even common peeps on the street can do an eye transplant if given the chance + the haven of bodies Tobi possesses in his secret napping room, It would be believable to deduce that Tobi re transplants all he loses in battle, After his battle with Danzou's goons he did leave the scene with one arm u know...

Darui:
Tobi has no real physical body. He can detach arms like its nothing. We see white liquid(as if his hand is melting) whenever he's wounded(and blood too).
In short, obito cannot be a physical container for Tobi.
I'm not ruling anything out,mind you.

Ready, aim, dustbin

And also shinobis with harashima cell can also detach parts of their body easily as we have seen with captain Yamato and Danzo. So tobi might also have that cell to be able to detach his body easily,uses izanagi and the rinnengan.

Darui: Even better
Tobi is short for TOBI/rama.
Uchiha Tobi is the second hokage!!!

One problem(bigger than Ibadan)
MOTIVEs??

Wrong. The biggest problem (apart from Tobirama being long dead by then) is that Tobirama is sealed in the Death God and yet Tobi's still prancing around.

codeaddict:
A rock fell on the right side of Obito's face. When Tobi's mask got damaged while fighting Konan, The right half of His face was wrinkled.
Although there's no motive for Obito to hate the Leaf, he might be a container...

Tobi cannot be Obito. Obito was the same age as Kakashi so he'd be still a teenager at the time of the Uchiha massacre if he'd lived. The masked man Itachi spoke to towered above itachi.
Secondly, Tobi was present when

Darui:
Tobi has no real physical body. He can detach arms like its nothing. We see white liquid(as if his hand is melting) whenever he's wounded(and blood too).
In short, obito cannot be a physical container for Tobi.
I'm not ruling anything out,mind you.

Ready, aim, dustbin

Doesn't mean he has no real physical body. I assume it's kinda like his body's an original Zetsu or something like that. Perhaps the black half is the other half of Black Zetsu?

I actually think Tobi is a creation of uchiha Madara's, brought into existence for the sole purpose of grooming Nagato to a stage where he could combine the powers of the tailed beast and use their chakra to do the Rinnegan's Rinne Tensei which would resurrect Madara himself from death (not as Edo Tensei zombie but true resurrection).

We see clues to this effect when Tobi tells Konan he gave Nagato the Rinnegan and when Tobi complains angrily that the Rinne Tensei Nagato used to resurrect the dead Konoha folks was supposed to have been used on him.
Also when Madara was Edo Tensei'd back into existence, his first assumption was that Nagato had finally grown up.

Since Tobi was present when Nagato was still a child, it's also fairly obvious that Tobi can't be Obito.

The 9 tails recognized Tobi's sharingan as that of Uchiha Madara's...likely Madara created Tobi and gave him his memories and his sharingan before he died. Certainly Tobi knows things from the uchiha scroll that could only have been read with a Rinnegan...and Tobi uses only a sharingan.

texazzpete:

Wrong. The biggest problem (apart from Tobirama being long dead by then) is that Tobirama is sealed in the Death God and yet Tobi's still prancing around.

Agreed.

texazzpete: Tobi cannot be Obito. Obito was the same age as Kakashi so he'd be still a teenager at the time of the Uchiha massacre if he'd lived. The masked man Itachi spoke to towered above itachi.
Secondly, Tobi was present when

Towered Over seems like overkill....

texazzpete: Doesn't mean he has no real physical body. I assume it's kinda like his body's an original Zetsu or something like that. Perhaps the black half is the other half of Black Zetsu?

1.[/b]I actually think Tobi is a creation of uchiha Madara's, brought into existence for the sole purpose of grooming Nagato to a stage where he could combine the powers of the tailed beast and use their chakra to do the Rinnegan's Rinne Tensei which would resurrect Madara himself from death (not as Edo Tensei zombie but true resurrection).

[b]2. We see clues to this effect when Tobi tells Konan he gave Nagato the Rinnegan and when Tobi complains angrily that the Rinne Tensei Nagato used to resurrect the dead Konoha folks was supposed to have been used on him.
Also when Madara was Edo Tensei'd back into existence, his first assumption was that Nagato had finally grown up.

3. Since Tobi was present when Nagato was still a child, it's also fairly obvious that Tobi can't be Obito.

4. The 9 tails recognized Tobi's sharingan as that of Uchiha Madara's...likely Madara created Tobi and gave him his memories and his sharingan before he died. Certainly Tobi knows things from the uchiha scroll that could only have been read with a Rinnegan...and Tobi uses only a sharingan.

One of a kind analysis you have here and I'm sure you'll have a hard time finding facts to support your theory.
1. If this is true, why has Tobi always been wary to Edo-Madara? When Kabuto summoned him at first as a threat and then during the war...Tobi should have run immediately to Uchiha's Madara's side to join him.

Although Life has been created in Narutoverse before(Yamato), No ability has ever been shown that i know off that let Dead ppl control the living from beyond the grave, Tobi also said he wanted to use Rinne Tensei on HIMSELF.

2. Anyone who reads Naruto would know that Tobi is a compulsive liar who claimed a false identity for over two years and more than a 100 chapters. There has also been facts disproving what he said(Jiraya stated that the Rinnegan is passed down thru generations).

3. Agreed.

4. The 9 tails just talkeed about Uchiha Madara's sharingan but didn't associate it with any1..There is no pic of Tobi there.
http://www.tenmanga.com/chapter/Naruto309/173498-3.html
Also the Bolded was really funny and don't think i need to get into that.
Trust Kishimoto to leave plot holes the size of Nigerian pot holes in his story, Uchiha Madara's association with Tobi still hasn't been explained.

Next2Bezee:

Hmmm not really, Tobi did lose an arm in a world where even common peeps on the street can do an eye transplant if given the chance + the haven of bodies Tobi possesses in his secret napping room, It would be believable to deduce that Tobi re transplants all he loses in battle, After his battle with Danzou's goons he did leave the scene with one arm u know...

Yes,he transplants but not normal arms. Normal limbs do not melt. I agree with your other deductions.

kombats:
And also shinobis with harashima cell can also detach parts of their body easily as we have seen with captain Yamato and Danzo. So tobi might also have that cell to be able to detach his body easily,uses izanagi and the rinnengan.

[quote author=Next2Bezee]

Yes, true.
Let me ask you,do you think Tobi is some sort of advanced Zetsu?
Current theories predicts Tobi's Identity to be either a ZETSU(we v seen half of his face and he's nothing like Zetsu tho) or IZUNA(plausible).

texazzpete:

Wrong. The biggest problem (apart from Tobirama being long dead by then) is that Tobirama is sealed in the Death God and yet Tobi's still prancing around.



Tobi cannot be Obito. Obito was the same age as Kakashi so he'd be still a teenager at the time of the Uchiha massacre if he'd lived. The masked man Itachi spoke to towered above itachi.
Secondly, Tobi was present when



Doesn't mean he has no real physical body. I assume it's kinda like his body's an original Zetsu or something like that. Perhaps the black half is the other half of Black Zetsu?

I actually think Tobi is a creation of uchiha Madara's, brought into existence for the sole purpose of grooming Nagato to a stage where he could combine the powers of the tailed beast and use their chakra to do the Rinnegan's Rinne Tensei which would resurrect Madara himself from death (not as Edo Tensei zombie but true resurrection).

We see clues to this effect when Tobi tells Konan he gave Nagato the Rinnegan and when Tobi complains angrily that the Rinne Tensei Nagato used to resurrect the dead Konoha folks was supposed to have been used on him.
Also when Madara was Edo Tensei'd back into existence, his first assumption was that Nagato had finally grown up.

Since Tobi was present when Nagato was still a child, it's also fairly obvious that Tobi can't be Obito.

The 9 tails recognized Tobi's sharingan as that of Uchiha Madara's...likely Madara created Tobi and gave him his memories and his sharingan before he died. Certainly Tobi knows things from the uchiha scroll that could only have been read with a Rinnegan...and Tobi uses only a sharingan.

1) The 2nd Hokage thing was a joke.
2)I do not subscribe to TOBI=OBITO theory.
3)Yeah, he may be an advanced Zetsu(this means he does not possess a human body) or a creation of madara after acquiring the Rinnegan. We don't know the full powers of the Rinnegan. But since the SoSP created matter out of nothing,Nothing is impossible in the narutoverse. I just hope the answer will make enough logical sense.
4)He expected to be resurrected. This means he made a detailed future plan. It is likely that Tobi is the weaker version of Madara created to resurrect himself after defeat/death was imminent at Hashirama's hands.
5) Your points in support are plausible.
6)Wrong. TOBI changes Sharingans like fashion. The nine tails sensed the true Madara when he tried to summon him.

I was just thinking, tobi told kabuto that zetsu was created from the 1st hokage cells, how? And how come zetsu is so loyal to tobi despite being created from harashima?

rapmike: u guys are funny.. but i still stand on my ground as regards tobi..HE IS A MADARA/ZETSU CLONE..he may not be as strong as madara or even itachi as per sharingan, but he is smarter than both

I reached the same conclusion bro. All evidence points to a Zetsu body with Uchiha mind. Let's review...
-When Tobi fought Namikaze he bled.
-Years later when he fought Konan and Danzo he did not bleed, and losing body parts did not faze him @ all.
-The wrinkles around his eyes mark him to be of an advanced age.
-Also he is able to implant eyes @ will, as shown from the booby trap Itachi set in Sasuke's Mangekyu.
-Finally we see that his control over the Bijuu during the war was NOT as complete as the original Madara's was.

Summation - Tobi worked on his body as the years went by, changing from his blood and bone self to the white Zetsu; a creature based on the DNA of Hashirama, thus acquiring the power of the Senju body. With his customised body he became able to handle the pain of fixing and removing Sharingans and activating them instantly, rather like Danzo had to do. But this must also take a great toll on the user's chakra so that must have affected his control of the bijuu even though he had the Rinnengan on. I believe Tobi was split from Madara after the battle in the VotE. But also a close contender is Madara's kid brother Izunna, he'd fit the profile too.

Next2Bezee:

One of a kind analysis you have here and I'm sure you'll have a hard time finding facts to support your theory.
1. If this is true, why has Tobi always been wary to Edo-Madara? When Kabuto summoned him at first as a threat and then during the war...Tobi should have run immediately to Uchiha's Madara's side to join him.

Because the Summoner CONTROLS the Edo Tensei. You think Dan would have run to the Hokage's side? Or Gaara's father run to his side?
Tobi would have been wary about Edo Madara because he knows he'd be Kabuto's puppet.

Next2Bezee:
Although Life has been created in Narutoverse before(Yamato), No ability has ever been shown that i know off that let Dead ppl control the living from beyond the grave, Tobi also said he wanted to use Rinne Tensei on HIMSELF.

don't forget that that was Tobi talking in his Uchiha Madara persona. And don't forget what Edo-Madara himself said...he was wondering if it was Nagato's Rinne Tensei that had brought him back to life as planned.

See this

Next2Bezee:

2. Anyone who reads Naruto would know that Tobi is a compulsive liar who claimed a false identity for over two years and more than a 100 chapters. There has also been facts disproving what he said(Jiraya stated that the Rinnegan is passed down thru generations).

See above. Madara himself strongly implied HE gave Nagato the Rinnegan.
For Madara to make that statement, and to say it was planned, it means Madara and Tobi planned the whole thing together. I can assume that handing over his Rinnegans to Nagato must only have occurred when Madara was about to die. No way would that proud Uchiha give up his eyes for nothing. Who better to oversee Nagato's development than Tobi?
Jiraiya is NOT an expert on the Rinnegan...he once considered it a myth just like the Sage of Six paths, remember?
We now know from the manga that Madara's Rinnegan was the final evolution of his Eternal Magekyou sharingan.

Next2Bezee:

4. The 9 tails just talkeed about Uchiha Madara's sharingan but didn't associate it with any1..There is no pic of Tobi there.
http://www.tenmanga.com/chapter/Naruto309/173498-3.html
Also the Bolded was really funny and don't think i need to get into that.
Trust Kishimoto to leave plot holes the size of Nigerian pot holes in his story, Uchiha Madara's association with Tobi still hasn't been explained.

That's true...but don't forget the Kyuubi seemed to recognize tobi when he yanked it out of Kushina.
You laugh at my 'clone with MAdara's memories/consciousness' suggestion but there have been far more weird stuff in the manga na.

Hm. I just remembered someone and she's going make an 'authentic' dragon leather outta Kabuto when she wakes up. XDDD.
It's a pity we don't get to see what a Valley-of-the-End sized Mad-Ara(That Susano'o has an extra set of armoured arms). Makes me wonder what Hashirama used to counter that.

....we forgot all about anko.....
Don't think madara's gonna go like that.....

Feraz: ....we forgot all about anko.....
Don't think madara's gonna go like that.....

Meh, anko doesn't matter. She's already been beaten.
The next act in rhe whole saga will be the activation of the white zetsu spores on Kabuto.

This one wey madara never reach koto aye since, he might just izanagi his way out of this one. But wait o, did Madara use Izanagi when fighting Harishima

Yondaime Hokage was sealed with the death-god when he used the technique, right? Meaning it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be brought back,no? How in the world was Orochimaru able to resurrect him? *see Orochimaru/Hokages vs the god of shinobi fight*
Something isn't right.

You just made my morning with 'Koto Aye'!

Minato fought Tobi not Mad-ara.
When the pair fought a death duel, Minato tagged the Flying Thunder god technique version II seal as he rasenganed in order to track him; then he used a fuinjutsu to seize back Kyuubi.
The Shinigami was used when he sealed Kyuubi into Naruto. As per Orochimaru, he cannot summon Yondaime due that reason. Kabuto too, since Sandaime sealed Shodaime and Nidaime. So all Hokages are off-limits.
.

KazeKage1: This one wey madara never reach koto aye since, he might just izanagi his way out of this one. But wait o, did Madara use Izanagi when fighting Harishima

Yondaime Hokage was sealed with the death-god when he used the technique, right? Meaning it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be brought back,no? How in the world was Orochimaru able to resurrect him? *see Orochimaru/Hokages vs the god of shinobi fight*
Something isn't right.

he did not even if the third coffin was the fourth due to the reason that he's been sealed else where....kabuto explained to tobi when showing him the secrets behind the technique and why the former kages couldn't be summoned......then again, i feel the fourth planned on using this technique not only for naruto but for another reason which i feel he felt he might be summoned to battle people he loves and wanted to avoid that badly...........

firestar: Minato fought Tobi not Mad-ara.
When the pair fought a death duel, Minato tagged the Flying Thunder god technique version II seal as he rasenganed in order to track him; then he used a fuinjutsu to seize back Kyuubi.
The Shinigami was used when he sealed Kyuubi into Naruto. As per Orochimaru, he cannot summon Yondaime due that reason. Kabuto too, since Sandaime sealed Shodaime and Nidaime. So all Hokages are off-limits.
.

But who was in the 3rd coffin that Orochimaru tried to summon? And did you notice the shock on Sarutobi's face? It was Minato.
Perhaps Kishi covered his own tracks by not letting that happen else the who death god sealed-things would be seen as some joke

Read the 'kanji' on Yondaime's casket. It came up alright but was sealed. It shows that Oro was either ignorant or wasn't privy to sensitive details like Yondaime's death.

kombats: I was just thinking, tobi told kabuto that zetsu was created from the 1st hokage cells, how? And how come zetsu is so loyal to tobi despite being created from harashima?

Created from hashirama CELLS. I don't think cells have a mind of their own.