[quote author=LivingSage post=88132425]So you're rulling out Tinubu's influence in Buhari becoming president right? Why didn't he won 3 times consecutively before the merger of Tinubu's then ACN?
Besides, obj was against Buhari's reelection. To tell you that he he Isn't relevant, did Buhari won or not? Tinubu is the greatest politician as the political dispensation of this fourth republic is concern
[/quot

in 2015, Obj was against GEJ. Remember he tore his pdp membership card

I don't have to count, you know them already

Agboriotejoye:

How many govs, minsters as he produced?

comos:
If we are talking about national leader, then Awolowo and Tinubu names should not be mentioned because they were neither president, prime minister, vice president, senate president, deputy Senate president, speaker nor deputy speaker.

Awolowo was only a regional lesder

The highest level Tinubu has achieved politically is governor.

Toh. You have said it.

LivingSage:
So you're rulling out Tinubu's influence in Buhari becoming president right? Why didn't he won 3 times consecutively before the merger of Tinubu's then ACN?
Besides, obj was against Buhari's reelection. To tell you that he he Isn't relevant, did Buhari won or not? Tinubu is the greatest politician as the political dispensation of this fourth republic is concern

No I'm not. He had a massive influence but he was not a deterministic factor. A lot of factors played in buhari's favour in 2015 chief of which was GEJ's weakness. Jega introducing PVC and all that would never have been allowed by a power hungry leader as we saw with Buhari's refusal to sign 2018 electoral bill. As per Buhari's reelection, SW was actually split 55-45 which shows a wane in Tinubu's strength politically. It was Buhari's massive retention of northern votes that returned him. If the same scenario that occurred in SW had occurred in the north, Atiku would have won. Hope you agree.

LivingSage:
Noo. What one does should comply with what one says. That's straightness

If you insist. Politics is not about morality. It's about gaining an advantage legally not morally.

Haven't said all these, the two outstanding now are Tinubu and Obj. To my own view, Tinubu surpasses Obj(even as we type) so he's the greatest politician of this Republic NOW

Agboriotejoye:

No I'm not. He had a massive influence but he was not a deterministic factor. A lot of factors played in buhari's favour in 2015 chief of which was GEJ's weakness. Jega introducing PVC and all that would never have been allowed by a power hungry leader as we saw with Buhari's refusal to sign 2018 electoral bill. As per Buhari's reelection, SW was actually split 55-45 which shows a wane in Tinubu's strength politically. It was Buhari's massive retention of northern votes that returned him. If the same scenario that occurred in SW had occurred in the north, Atiku would have won. Hope you agree.

kayfra:


You can't make a case for a vacuum

I gave you a reputable list of all the well known pan africanists in history which also included the names of the people you mentioned but you decided to single out Zik maybe because he is a nigerian or not from your preferred ethnicity, I can't really tell but you can go read his biography maybe you might be more enlightened after that.


Note that I never said he was a saint but everybody has a good and bad side. Gracias

LivingSage:
Haven't said all these, the two outstanding now are Tinubu and Obj. To my own view, Tinubu surpasses Obj(even as we type) so he's the greatest politician of this Republic NOW

Well... The OP did not ask of now but the fourth republic so far, that is 1999 till now. I'm sure you should be able to make a decision between the two you've chosen as your prime candidates based on that parameter.

LivingSage:
Haven't said all these, the two outstanding now are Tinubu and Obj. To my own view, Tinubu surpasses Obj(even as we type) so he's the greatest politician of this Republic NOW

Does Tinubu's influence spread across the country? Can he make anyone a governor outside SW? Obj might no longer be politically active but once upon a time in Nigeria, he made people governors across every geographical region in Nigeria. Tinubu is still climbing that rope for now and he may or may not get to that level. Until BAT gets to that stage where he will have a national appeal like Obj had, he is not yet the greatest.

Are you referring to 2003, 2007 when Obj used forced (men in uniform) to distrupt elections in favour of his annointed candidates? Obj has never been great, he's just an opportunist of VETO POWER.
Tinubu can influence political decisions outside Southwest, kwara, Bornu as an example because he has his people there. We're not talking about force here o

Rumxy:


Does Tinubu's influence spread across the country? Can he make anyone a governor outside SW? Obj might no longer be politically active but once upon a time in Nigeria, he made people governors across every geographical region in Nigeria. Tinubu is still climbing that rope for now and he may or may not get to that level. Until BAT gets to that stage where he will have a national appeal like Obj had, he is not yet the greatest.

Rumxy:


did the 4th republic start in 2015? He came into national politics in 2015. Without Buhari's influence and godlike status in the north, there is no way Tinubu would have come into national limelight. Buhari would have still become president if he had aligned with the SS/SE block but unfortunately they rejected him. Both are regional politicians at best and are enjoying the fruits of their coalition. It won't make sense to start over hyping people now.

Same applies to obj.

Agboriotejoye:

That's not true. Even right now, his influence is debatable as the cabal runs things basically. He can get his fair share of attention but not kind of influence you seek to imply

Obj is irrelevant

Agboriotejoye:

Tinubu rode on afenifere/AD which had the likes of bola ige, lateef jakande, adefarasin, kolapo isola, osoba etc as arrowheads. These figures were seen as awolowo's boys and mko's loyalists. That's what made AD strong in the sw in 1999 not tinubu. So just as you can ascribe OBJ's emergence to the northern oligarchs, Tinubu also benefitted from the MKO influence in SW

No sir.thats not true.tinubu was never imposed on lagos.you are funny.you have nothing more to say.tinubu road on ad,is ad not a political party? Was he imposed? Was he not a senator before then.without those northern oligarchs,obj will still be in prison

Agboriotejoye:

I really don't get you. Buhari emerged president by winning 95% states in the north, how was dat due to tinubu? The same thing occurred in 2019 when the SW votes were split so I'm still trying to see the Tinubu influence you're touting so much.
I just mentioned people who are OBJ's boys. There are still a good number of them I haven't mentioned including okorocha and even the atiku self. So you can dissect their political fortunes but they are OBJ's boys

Guy,stop being vexatious.i regret as usual inviting you back.i wish i can uninvite you.you cannot compare obj's half baked,ragtag boys to that of the great tinubu.you even mentioned saraki that was born into a political family destined to be a governor.you want to mention atiku? Are you this shameless? Atiku that gained political relevance since 1992? You do not know what political creations or boys are.
Buhari had always won the north until tinubu allied with him.you cannot doenplay that son

Agboriotejoye:

Whether in or out, OBJ remains relevant. Heck, he brought Buhari to national limelight so what exactly are you about?

How did he bring buhari to limelight? Look at this fellow? Can obj influence anybody to win any elections currently

Agboriotejoye:

Very correct again.

Rubbish

Rumxy:


They unnecessarily overhypeTinubu. He is a good politician no doubt but they seem to ascribe to him some sort of mythical powers that don't exist. His true influence will be gauged in 2023 when there will be no Buhari on the ballot.

We have seen his true influence.he's greater than obj,he's the greatest

Agboriotejoye:

How many govs, minsters as he produced?

How many did obj produced after living office

LivingSage:
Are you referring to 2003, 2007 when Obj used forced (men in uniform) to distrupt elections in favour of his annointed candidates? Obj has never been great, he's just an opportunist of VETO POWER.
Tinubu can influence political decisions outside Southwest, kwara, Bornu as an example because he has his people there. We're not talking about force here o

Tinubu got nothing on Borno, Shettima delivered his preferred candidate Zulum, moreover Borno has always been an APC state, winner of the primaries wins the state no need for any external influence from Tinubu. Kwara is like an extension of the SW but he capitalised on the people being fed up of the sarabia dynasty. Hope u know Akeredolu of Ondo was never Tinubu's candidate.
Then talking about using force, can you explain what transpired in the Osun election?

Agboriotejoye:

No I'm not. He had a massive influence but he was not a deterministic factor. A lot of factors played in buhari's favour in 2015 chief of which was GEJ's weakness. Jega introducing PVC and all that would never have been allowed by a power hungry leader as we saw with Buhari's refusal to sign 2018 electoral bill. As per Buhari's reelection, SW was actually split 55-45 which shows a wane in Tinubu's strength politically. It was Buhari's massive retention of northern votes that returned him. If the same scenario that occurred in SW had occurred in the north, Atiku would have won. Hope you agree.

Even in 2015,southwest was split 55 45.tinubu is the greatest

Rumxy:


Tinubu got nothing on Borno, Shettima delivered his preferred candidate Zulum, moreover Borno has always been an APC state, winner of the primaries wins the state no need for any external influence from Tinubu. Kwara is like an extension of the SW but he capitalised on the people being fed up of the sarabia dynasty. Hope u know Akeredolu of Ondo was never Tinubu's candidate.
Then talking about using force, can you explain what transpired in the Osun election?

Tinubu produced lai mohammed who led the removal of saraki.the question is which other politician has done all these? Has obj done it
Tinubu supported ngige to win senate seat in ansmbra,supported oshiomhole to victory,he almost produced a governor in kogi,begged wamakko to allow tambuwal to run.intact,tinubu handpicked most of those who picked apc ticket in 2015.

This is too funny and delusional!!

Agboriotejoye:


I guess Tinubu was not fortunate in 1999. Tinubu might have control of the Lagos machinery and some of SW states, but remember he only grew into national prominence in 2015. So you can't use regional politics to determine national appeal.

you have arrived to my point tell me any politician that left the position of authority for the last 12 years that is still relevant politically like Tinubu in Nigeria ? Tinubu is a politician who brought up some new generation of politicians in Nigeria not political offices holders grabber like all those people you mentioned. Your political strength is not abt years of governor ,senator or president you spent but about how you can mobilise to be a game changer,majorities of loyalist you have ,how your words can change the situation of things,politically ,people in position of authorities and economically. How you can win your political opponent strategically ,mass followership you have in position of authorities even when you are not holding any political office that can influence antificial eye service followership . The more his political or personal enemies the more his wining games .

And who is kashim shetima to Tinubu if I may ask you.
On Akeredolu, and you think he'll win if Tinubu didn't talk to aggrieved APC members then? Besides, you should know they're Ally before APC primary, Immediately after primary, he gave in to Tinubu again!
If you want to talk about force, clarify it, you may say in BYE- ELECTION. Do you also know what PDP did in the main election at Adeleke's hometown?

Rumxy:


Tinubu got nothing on Borno, Shettima delivered his preferred candidate Zulum, moreover Borno has always been an APC state, winner of the primaries wins the state no need for any external influence from Tinubu. Kwara is like an extension of the SW but he capitalised on the people being fed up of the sarabia dynasty. Hope u know Akeredolu of Ondo was never Tinubu's candidate.
Then talking about using force, can you explain what transpired in the Osun election?

senatordave1:

Same applies to obj.

it's a known fact that Obj was annointed by the Northern oligarchs to serve their interest but before then he was not a nobody like say Jonathan. He was a former head of state and a respected general that favour smiled upon for successfully handing over to a democratic president. Being too big to be tossed around, by 2003 he became his own man to the extent that the Northerners started to fear him. He ruled the roost from 2003 to 2015 being a decisive factor in who gets what in this country. This is the level Tinubu is trying to attain but he can't for now because he has never been a president like Obj. Presently, the fulani cabal are the most powerful power brokers in Nigeria because they weird the real power.

Iyiataata92:

When you talk of legacies to the people, Awolowo had more to offer than Zik.
But when talking about party politics, strategising, lobbying and oratory, which is the core of politics, Zik had the upper hand.
Zik hobnobbed with the great Herbert Macauley which led to the domination of one of Africa's biggest party then. Zik conquered the east and modern day south south and was expanding his tentacles towards the west where Awolowo was still battling with a relatively unknown Akintola in the western house which Awo ultimately lost.
His appointment by Gowon as minister of finance was only to aggravate the Igbos and pacify the Yoruba so as to draw them closer to the nothern side in the fast approaching and seemingly inevitable civil war.
The political wings of Zik is spread around Africa and beyond and Awo is not match to that

Jesus Christ!!! You dey read my mind? What you just wrote word for word was what I was planning on writing. You be witch

.

LivingSage:
And who is kashim shetima to Tinubu if I may ask you.
On Akeredolu, and you think he'll win if Tinubu didn't talk to aggrieved APC members then? Besides, you should know they're Ally before APC primary, Immediately after primary, he gave in to Tinubu again!
If you want to talk about force, clarify it, you may say in BYE- ELECTION. Do you also know what PDP did in the main election at Adeleke's hometown?

So far as Borno state politics is concerned, Tinubu is nobody there, the real godfather there is Ali Modu Sheriff. For Ondo case, pdp was already in tatters and it was obvious APC was going to win regardless of who emerges winner in the primaries. The real battle was in the primaries where Oyegun worked against Tinubu's interest that led to the emergence of Aketi. It was so obvious that APC would win that Mimiko has to agree to work for APC so that he would be given a soft landing and not be probed. Even if there was Tinubu's impact, it was almost insignificant considering the situation of things then.

Rumxy:


it's a known fact that Obj was annointed by the Northern oligarchs to serve their interest but before then he was not a nobody like say Jonathan. He was a former head of state and a respected general that favour smiled upon for successfully handing over to a democratic president. Being too big to be tossed around, by 2003 he became his own man to the extent that the Northerners started to fear him. He ruled the roost from 2003 to 2015 being a decisive factor in who gets what in this country. This is the level Tinubu is trying to attain but he can't for now because he has never been a president like Obj. Presently, the fulani cabal are the most powerful power brokers in Nigeria because they weird the real power.

Obj own ended in 2007 sir.there's no evidence that he controlled gej or yaradua.how come people he supported always lost elections even when pdp was in power? His inability to remove tinubu in 2003 showed tinubu's superiority.another chance came in 2007 and he failed.guy,tinubu left lagos,supported a candidate in ogun and bested obj.even obj daughter.how else do you want to compare na

senatordave1:

Tinubu produced lai mohammed who led the removal of saraki.the question is which other politician has done all these? Has obj done it
Tinubu supported ngige to win senate seat in ansmbra,supported oshiomhole to victory,he almost produced a governor in kogi,begged wamakko to allow tambuwal to run.intact,tinubu handpicked most of those who picked apc ticket in 2015.

Ngige won due to the goodwill he enjoyed from his people and not Tinubu's influence. Are you saying anyone that contests under ACN then is Tinubu's boy? Ngige was made by OBJ, he went to ACN because of his fallout with the Uba brothers in PDP. If Tinubu was that influential, why didn't he win in 2015 when APC came to power.

For Oshiomhole, he was already a household name that also enjoyed the good will of the people. He won because Jonathan wasn't in the business of influencing electoral results with federal might which was why he rushed to thank him after after the election for allowing a free and fair election.
For Kogi, Tinubu produced AuduAbubakar? A former governor of the state.

Just tell me Tinubu produced all candidates of APC and ACN since that's how it is.

.

Kenplay:

You are a dunce. Most of my foreign friends do ask me about Zik, Obasanjo, IBB, Bello and Balewa when discusing Nigeria history and I can boldly tell you that none of them even know Awolowo even when I bring his name up.
Nnamdi Azikiwe wrote his name on the sand of Africa. If you are envious of that then go commit suicide.

Imaginary friends can ask for anything as far as your wild imaginations or hallucinations supports it.

Ode