Interestingly, in that same letter to Corinth, Paul goes on to clarify his position on "offerings" - he states that children ought NOT save up for parents but that it is parents responsibility to do that for their children. This is replicated in the biblical stance that Godd provides for us. In effect, Paul was being LIKE God when he said this. For him, there was no reason to collect from the laity but rather, more reason to give to them

How does this relate to the ones who ask their "spiritual" children to bring to them and make such a burden for the "children"? What father are they resembling? Is it God or satan?

nuclearboy:


@SirJohn:

what ailment did the "author" suffer?

Chris has on few occasions talked about how he developed a condition in one of his legs (he didn't mention what the condition was) he experienced excruciating pain and difficulty to walk so much that he had to use a walking stick.
Joagbaje is this true or false??

Just his leg? Ordinary leg? smallest thing for the MOG!

I'm sure the "god" would have cured that by now and doesn't even need legs. He will simply fly

SirJohn:

@newmi, there is more than one instance in the bible where God allowed some seemingly unfortunate situations to have its way on his children to remind them of his omnipotence. you're simply spewing out garbage you heard from Chris.

" there is more than one instance in the bible where God allowed some seemingly unfortunate situations" Good He didn't bring it, it was/is the devil that brings it, now because the hedge is/could have been broken then the sapent bites

nuclearboy:

Just his leg? Ordinary leg? smallest thing for the MOG!

I'm sure the "god" would have cured that by now and doesn't even need legs. He will simply fly

Well if you must know not just a leg he had had instances in the past of serious health challenge but the man had to put to effect what the word of God says.One instance l had Pastor Chris give and inspiring testimony of himself how that he was so very sich that he was hospitalized but he said "nothing could make me change my confession" Why because the reality of what the word of God says is more important than the feeling or pain felt or experienced in the body and he got healed.

Now its healing is divine even if it comes by the aid of medical procedures because God himself is source and origin of all wisdom.
He has testimony of his wife and daughter in instances where they had to believe God for a miracle of healing but his experiences does not negate the reality of the word of God, God's ultimate provision for his children is divine health whether that is your experience is not God's responsibility but ours.

I have my own personal testimonies of God's miraculous healing grace. Perhaps l should have been deaf today but thank God for his grace. Nobody said sickness will not come for instance if you don't live a healthy life, if you careless about some basic issues of personal health then sickness may come and your health may fail. The point is that the life we have recived at new birth in christ Jesus by the Holy Ghost is an incorruptable life because it proceeds from God so the ultimate is divine haelth but if you fall sick, the healing power if God is available.
John 10:10
"The thief cometh not but for to steal to kill and to destroy but l am come that they might have life and have to the full"

1 Peter 1:24
"Being born again not of corruptable seed, but of incorruptable, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"

There is the possibility that God could allow or permit the passing away of a saint on a sick bed or state but that is not His perfect will rather it could be a permissive will
in all of the scripture there was/is no record to sugest that Jesus Christ was ever sick especially after the Holy Ghost came upon Him. But yes he was weak, hungry, tired

chukwudi44:

@inedi

Do you mind telling me where in the bible I can find this book of ROMANCE,am really dying to read it

its a mistake, but answer the question

You people ought read Amos 3:6 to understand God is responsible for all things. What is lost to you is the understanding that motive is intent i.e. if you do something to achieve good, then you have done good. If your purpose is evil, then you have done evil even if you saved someone's life. But for that statement to be absolutely true, you have to have absolute understanding and so, God comes into play.

God has knowledge of all things and because we trust that His purposes are for good, then we say He is good. However, all the tripe about "allowing" and "it is satan" etc remains just tripe. When we get understanding, we come to know that God does things to strengthen us. But like an athlete or soldier, we need to undergo training. That training is harsh, brutal and can seem cruel. But without that "harsh" training, most soldiers would have a life expectancy of likely less than a week at the war front. Same with Christians! And that is why any mature Christian is not moved or impressed by the feel good "replacement" gospel. We go through training IN THE HANDS OF GOD (not satan) and it can be brutal AND we cannot command/control Him. Sickness, failure, poverty, seeming lack of progress ALL can come from God in a design to strengthen us AND teach us to value this world less. Most mature christians here have become wealthy only after going through the fire. That training has made money become a tool rather than a master since we don't much much stock to it anymore. Our eyes are NOW set on a different kind of wealth.

And that is why its easy to know the mature - babes are still chasing life, wealth, vanity, health, making noise and they come both as 40 year (converted and making noise for so long but refused to mature cos they chase the world) christian toddlers and the newly converted. Fruits show all

Why not just pick up a Bible and read Is 40 without using ROR to interprete?

God has knowledge of all things and because we trust that His purposes are for good, then we say He is good. However, all the tripe about "allowing" and "it is satan" etc remains just tripe. When we get understanding, we come to know that God does things to strengthen us

True word

Sometimes God may use sickness as a way of testing our faith and making sure that we trust in him alone.

Example 2 Chron 16:12-13 King Asa of Judah developed a serious foot disease, yet even with the severity of his disease, he did not seek the Lord's help but turned only to his physican.  -

RESULT: He died for not trusting God. A test of his faith! He failed



However Sickness will continue to exist in the world because of sin. But Christ the messiah who took our sickness and removed our diseases by taking our sin on the cross has the power to give physical healing.

1 Peter 2:24
He personally carried our sins in his body on the cross so we can be dead to sin and live for what is right. By his wounds, you are healed."

We are all sinners, therefore sickness can come. But Christ can heal.

Are Pastor Chris and members of CEC not  sinners?

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

I rest my case on the bolded above

newmi:

Well if you must know not just a leg he had had instances in the past of serious health challenge but the man had to put to effect what the word of God says.One instance l had Pastor Chris give and inspiring testimony of himself how that he was so very sich that he was hospitalized but he said "nothing could make me change my confession" Why because the reality of what the word of God says is more important than the feeling or pain felt or experienced in the body and he got healed.

Now its healing is divine even if it comes by the aid of medical procedures because God himself is source and origin of all wisdom.
He has testimony of his wife and daughter in instances where they had to believe God for a miracle of healing but his experiences does not negate the reality of the word of God, God's ultimate provision for his children is divine health whether that is your experience is not God's responsibility but ours.

I have my own personal testimonies of God's miraculous healing grace. Perhaps l should have been deaf today but thank God for his grace. Nobody said sickness will not come for instance if you don't live a healthy life, if you careless about some basic issues of personal health then sickness may come and your health may fail. The point is that the life we have recived at new birth in christ Jesus by the Holy Ghost is an incorruptable life because it proceeds from God so the ultimate is divine haelth but if you fall sick, the healing power if God is available.
John 10:10
"The thief cometh not but for to steal to kill and to destroy but l am come that they might have life and have to the full"

1 Peter 1:24
"Being born again not of corruptable seed, but of incorruptable, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"

There is the possibility that God could allow or permit the passing away of a saint on a sick bed or state but that is not His perfect will rather it could be a permissive will
in all of the scripture there was/is no record to sugest that Jesus Christ was ever sick especially after the Holy Ghost came upon Him. But yes he was weak, hungry, tired

The bottom line of your rantings above still agrees with what we're saying i.e christians can and do get sick; you may get better by trusting solely on God for a healing or you take medications for it. It makes no difference at all

you keep ranting about divine health but you have refused to provide any scriptural evidence to support your claim; I'll suggest you stick to nuclearboy's advice and stop reading ROR instead of your bible

All this so called Christians sef. Why start something you cannot finish? You start a thread like this and when confronted with verses in the bible i am sure you don't know even exist to refute your claim you just chicken out (disappear).

Please try and study your bible well before coming here with all these outrageous claims, please!!

So if sickness is no longer your portion as a child of God, Are you saying that All Children of God always die peacefully in their sleep? and at what ripe age please ? 70, 80 or 120 years?

I am sure you are wishing that you can claim that as a child of God physical death is no longer your portion Abi.
You wish

@kunleshob, nuclearboy et al
Im nt here to defend pastor chris or anything of the sort. I dnt care if he is a fraudster or anything u have labelled him after all christianity is personal. However i must keep on saying it that your language is terrible. If i wasnt a christian, judging by your personal hatred of the man and ur ungodly talk, i will never want to be part of the christianity thingy. Haba!!!. Are u peeps on a self declared war or what. We agree, the man is a fraudster, scamist, deceives people with messages of first fruit and even the devil and anti-christ himself, we have heard and agree. You have won the argument so please it is enough. Remember, this site is for everybody and people are reading and forming opinions about christianity so please be careful. Also remember, you may win an argument logically but it doesnt mean you have won that soul to Christ which is paramount(this is sth i learnt over 10yrs ago).

@uche13
You point is noted and appreciated, but truth be told it is the way his worshippers idolize him on this forum that brings out the fury in me. Jesus also had worse words for the false religious leaders of his time you may wish to read the whole of matthew 23 to see how Jesus described them.

@uche13:

Look at the phrases below.

"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good, " (Mat. 12:34)!
"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, " (Mat. 12:39)!
"Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God, " (Mat. 15:3)!
"O faithless and perverse generation, " (Mat. 17:17)!
"Why tempt ye me, Ye hypocrites?" (Mat. 22:17)!
"But all their works they do for to be seen of men, " (Mat. 23:5)!
"But woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! (Ver 13)!
", ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." (Ver 13)!
", for ye devour widows’ houses, " (Ver 14).
"Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold morethe child of gehenna than yourselves" (Ver 15).
"Woe unto you, ye blind guides, " (Ver. 16).
"Ye fools and blind, " (Ver. 17).
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of the mint and the anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith, " (Ver. 23).
"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. (Ver. 25)
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! ,  whited sepulchres ,  full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness" (Ver. 27)
"Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Ye serpents. Ye generation of vipers, " (22-23)

The person who said them - see how nidce He is? is He a "GOOD" Christian? Do His Words edify you, make you feel good, impress you for their floweriness and poetic nature? Truth is ---> What is written about His words is that THEY WERE TOO HARD FOR THE MULTITUDE.

The Pharisees found him "rude". The establishment found Him "harsh". They hated Him because truth is harsh and He spoke only truth.

So now you have to ask yourself - if such words are HARD to your hearing now, what side do you belong to - the multitudes with the Pharisees OR the Apostles who took them and used them to become owners of heaven. By the way, when Satan used Simon Peter, Jesus was not slow to respond. He called the head of His Apostles "SATAN" because the dude was in that instance "representing" Satan. Was Jesus language edifying there too? Didn't He think He could lose THAT soul by speaking the truth as He did? Can you imagine His insolence? Calling a "whole" Peter the devil!

You people should actually READ THE BIBLE. Show me in the Bible where God was this flattering smiling idiotic slowpoke you all try to describe Him as. Show me where you find ANY of His messengers who was liked/loved by the "church" movement? From Abel through Abraham to David to Isaiah past Elijah and Jeremiah all the way to John the Baptist. John also went as far as calling the religious establishment (the people who stood as your pastor chris in that time) a "generation of vipers". Funnily, John abused even people who came for Baptism. Didn't he want to "save" their souls??

So I stand in good company if I resemble such people.

Where I would be wrong is if I was insulting a "man of God" doing the THINGS OF GOD. But you have yourself accepted "jobman chris" is fake and is not doing the things of God so please, go take a siesta. Truth has to be said.

Ta ta.

If pastor chris is fake ,then Jesus must be fake too! Because he preaches christ .

Joagbaje:

If pastor chris is fake ,then Jesus must be fake too! Because he preaches christ .

Well, Jesus is fake.

^^ Wow! How erudite!

Which means all demons too are saved - they too believe AND tremble.

So pastor chris will share the same fate with them since they both believe and have the same fruits. Comprehende? Meanwhile, in the OT, it was people with mouth claims and no truth that made God's Name a mockery because the presence left them and they failed. That is currently happening with your pastor chris.

When Saul disobeyed God and God's Hand left him, he still was king (only him, God, the prophets and David knew power had changed hands) but started to chase the true anointed, started to do stupid things like visiting demon-user and started to have demon possession.

Today, chairman is dancing to the tune of money and yes, he is still pastor but now he charges gate fees (craze like Saul), is manifesting his fruits in the media and no doubt is afraid. Which is why he needs thugs and such as Jo to do his image laundering for him

We have asked them time without number , if you say pastor chris is fake, show us some icy that is a genuine man of God to listen to. Even if Na your pastor, give us a name. You can't call something fake without recommending for us an original for replacement.

Martian:

Well, Jesus is fake.

Well Kunle oshob and co, you have won a soul
Congratulations

^^^^^

Joagbaje:

If pastor chris is fake ,then Jesus must be fake too! Because he preaches christ .

Pastor Joe, how can a whole pastor who is supposed to be knowledgeable about the scriptures make a statement such as above? How can you compare Jesus with a common crooked criminal just becos of your belly, you no dey fear God? Did Jesus himself not warn that several false teachers like Oyaks would preach in his name since when did preaching christ become the criteria for determining a follower of christ? Did Jesus not tell us that we would know his true follwers by their fuits and their works?

mabell:

Well Kunle oshob and co, you have won a soul
Congratulations

It's your Oga that first insinuated that Jesus is fake just becos it has been established that your chairman is a fraud. Aside that martian is known to be a notorious atheist and if you ask him, i am sure people like me are likely to bring him closer to christ throught the true gospel rather than the false one that is so popular and being peddle these days. Fact re,mains that a lot of people turn to atheism becos they are reacting to the false gospel being promoted by charlatans like Oyaks and also becos they see that most of them and their follwers are hypocrites, exactly what Jesus christ fought against.

Christ is us the hope of glory

yommyuk:

True word

Sometimes God may use sickness as a way of testing our faith and making sure that we trust in him alone.

We are all sinners, therefore sickness can come. But Christ can heal.
Are Pastor Chris and members of CEC not  sinners?

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

How can you say sickness comes to humble people, if God gives sickness then people don't need to go to the hospitals or look for relief now. They should rather keep their sickinesses in order to retain their humility

And Jehovah will take away from thee all sickness; and none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, will he put upon thee, but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.
Deut 7:15 (ASV)

Secondly, if you say we are all sinners then why did Jesus die, what is the essence of His death?
Do you believe in his resurrection power

Finally, the church of Christ is for perfecting of the saints whether CEC or Redeem or whatever
What qualifies a man to be born again, is it not when he accepts Jesus so why do you think members of CEC and the pastor inclusive have not accepted Jesus?

Joagbaje:

Christ is us the hope of glory

the hope of success and prosperity and divine health and on and on and on,

@Zikky,
mabell, i'll like to know how to utilize this ticket. Thanks

it's easy, just use your tongue, there is power in it

KunleOshob:

Pastor Joe, how can a whole pastor who is supposed to be knowledgeable about the scriptures make a statement such as above? How can you compare Jesus with a common crooked criminal just becos of your belly, you no dey fear God? Did Jesus himself not warn that several false teachers like Oyaks would preach in his name since when did preaching christ become the criteria for determining a follower of christ? Did Jesus not tell us that we would know his true follwers by their fuits and their works?

Wait a minute mr. Kuns Kuns there is nothing wrong with that statement don't be narrow minded, it is a relational statement; the man preaches Christ and you say he is fake then it only imply that you are invariably insinuating that the Christ who constitutes the basis of his preaching is "fake" as well. It is same when l say that a Christian who lives a beggarly, defeated and sorry life, beaten and oppressed by Satan, that such a Christian is "making Jesus a failure" because such a life defeats the ultimate purpose behind his coming.
"---am come that they might have life and have it to the full--", "---was made manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil--"
it doesn't mean that Jesus is a failure because he couldn't be rather it is a logical statement one in computer programming we'll call an "if-then-else" statement

Jo, newmi and mabell seem to be shifting from the topic gradually

Anyone who preaches a "Christ" that had to be made alive in his spirit (because he was thitherto dead in spirit) is preaching a fake Christ

Anyone who preaches a Christ that had to be "quickened in his spirit" (because he was thitherto dead in spirit) is preaching a fake Christ.

Anyone who preaches a Christ that was/had to be born again (because he was dead in spirit) is preaching a fake Christ.

It is the spirit of antiChrist that makes a person preach such nonsense!

@newmi
Preaching in Jesus name is NOT the same as preaching HIS gospel. Several false preachers like Oyaks just use his name to fufill their greedy motives, besides christ never promised us material prosperity but rather he said it would be more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than for a camel to enter the eye of a needle. The focus of christianity is NOT material wealth, don't let oyaks lead you to hell.

In that day, He will say unto many "I NEVER" knew you, workers of iniquity

How can you say sickness comes to humble people, if God gives sickness then people don't need to go to the hospitals or look for relief now. They should rather keep their sickinesses in order to retain their humility

Yes, Sickness can come to anyone. Let me give you a scenario. Some people get admited to the hospital with some disease which even the best doctors in the world cannot diagnose. God may use such situations to heal people in order for them to know him as the one who can do the impossible. Likewise God can also use a doctor/nurse to perform wonders. God ways are myterious. Nobody can comprehend it.

Deut 7:15 (ASV)
And Jehovah will take away from thee all sickness; and none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, will he put upon thee, but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.

Haba brethen u can do better than this now.

The above evils from the quote above related to plagues afflicted on the egyptians. That has no bearing on the issue at hand. Your quotation is completely out of context.

Secondly, if you say we are all sinners then why did Jesus die, what is the essence of His death?

Are u telling me that U sin no more? If not good for u. But the bible says that if you think that your are not a sinner "YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELVE AND NOT LIVING IN THE TRUTH"(1 John 1:

Do you believe in his resurrection power

1 Peter 3:18
Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you(ME) safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in th Spirit.

That should answer your question.

Finally, the church of Christ is for perfecting of the saints whether CEC or Redeem or whatever
What qualifies a man to be born again, is it not when he accepts Jesus so why do you think members of CEC and the pastor inclusive have not accepted Jesus?

The Lion of Judah is the Judge who seated in the place of honor next to God and all the angels and authorites and powers accept his authority.
He is the only righteous Judge whose knows the inner motives of every man. WHO AM I TO JUDGE.

SirJohn:

The bottom line of your rantings above still agrees with what we're saying i.e christians can and do get sick; you may get better by trusting solely on God for a healing or you take medications for it. It makes no difference at all

you keep ranting about divine health but you have refused to provide any scriptural evidence to support your claim; I'll suggest you stick to nuclearboy's advice and stop reading ROR instead of your bible

loll   anybody who claims in suggesting that anything is wrong with the ROR devotional and for the most part a book that encourages readers to study the bible must have develop a severe brain condition generated by an accumulation of personal grudge and hatred or perhaps he or she is yet to see a copy of the devotional.

Sure you are not far from the truth the point is that a Christian could fall sick and in fact die sick and even go to heaven but the truth is that the perfect will of God for the one who believes in Jesus Christ is to share in the God kind of life and l don't think anybody is suggesting that God could be sick now the fact that their experiences are in the opposite direction does not in effect render the authenticity of the reality of God's perfect will regarding that issue.

Jesus made a very profound statement in John 17:3 which l for many year have regarded as a definition of eternal life because l have had to think: why do some Christians suffer and live sorry lives, defeated, oppressed and always victims then l found out here that the much of God and eternal life you'll enjoy and function in hitherto constituting your everyday Christian experience is relative to the much of God and Jesus Christ you have come to know through the word.

John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent"

3 John vs 2
"Beloved, l wish above all things that thou mayest proper and BE IN HEALTH, even as your soul propereth".


Romans 8:2
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the the law of sin and death"
Well allow me to pause and say this; the Grk word translated "death" here is the word-thanato which is an adjective used as a noun literally or figuratively meaning death. Literal death could mean a cessation of life thus terminating continuity in existence on this terrestrial plain of reality then figuratively it could bear any of the synonyms ranging from sickness, disease, failure, defeat, bondage, slavery etc. sickness is death and in Christ Jesus the Christian has been freed from it----question : was Jesus ever sick?

most times l wonder when you people read scripture what comes to your minds hush this is not ROR argument now this is the word as an inspired rhetoric of the Holy Ghost (2 Timothy 3:16)

2 Peter 1:3-4
"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers (shares) of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust"

Oh that the eyes of your understanding be flooded with light!
Question
1. What is the divine nature?
2. How do we partake in it?
3. Oh we have escaped the corruption that’s in the world, what is this/these corruption
4. Who has this divine life?
5. A sharer of the divine has sickness as part of the package?

Wake up from thy slumber

nuclearboy:

In that day, He will say unto many "I NEVER" knew you, workers of iniquity

Well said bonboi

KunleOshob:

@newmi
Preaching in Jesus name is NOT the same as preaching HIS gospel. Several false preachers like Oyaks just use his name to fufill their greedy motives, besides Christ never promised us material prosperity but rather he said it would be more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than for a camel to enter the eye of a needle. The focus of Christianity is NOT material wealth, don't let oyaks lead you to hell.

And my dear kuns kuns you couldn't possibly be wrong YOU KNOW
BUT NOW PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE KINDLY SUGEST TO ME AND TO THE ENTIRE FORUM BY NAME ANY PASTOR (EVEN IF ITS YOUR OWN) THAT YOU KNOW IN NIGERIA OR ELSEWHERE THAT IS A TRUE MAN OF GOD, SIMPLY MENTION ANY CHURCH YOU WOULD GLADLY WANT ANY GOD LOVING PERSON TO FELLOWSHIP IN AND WORSHIP TO GOD.

PLEAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AM WAITING PERHAPS YOU MAY WANT TO CONSULT MY NUCLEARBONBOI OR SOME CLOSE ALIE