They should have kept low rate production of the Samil series going 2 keep the factory line open. A civilian version, (properly) marketed to Africa would have been enough to at least break even. A Samil could be made for at least half of the cost of a new Merc Zetros.
Unfortunately SAMAG (civvie version) and the ADE diesel plant was never supported by the ANC gov. and was left to die.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYy8BHYcEqg

Lurker4Long:
Streamlined logistics is still something a lot of militaries on our continent can't or won't get right,
for various reasons.
The elegant simplicity of standardising on 1 truck to perform multiple functions has so many innumerable benefits, it's a no brainer.

Driver had diff-locks engaged. That's why he didn't make the turn.

jl115:


Firstly the Rooikat is not even close to being an APC.... A broad definition would place it as an AFV but to be more specific its a Reconnaissance vehicle. Secondly the SA Army isn't designated SAA that designation is for South African Airways.

Lastly nobody is perfect, you can even youtube army fails and you'll see even more glaring mistakes by militaries from Europe and America it was a simple mistake that is being investigated by the SANDF.

Does anyone know why the Recces wear those helmets ?
I've seen pics of them wearing those back in the Bush War as well.

They look to me like Vietnam era US helmets.
The only other distinctive helmets that I know of is the Parrabats model.

shadowprimezero:
SANDF SOF in a Hornet

I wonder how hard it would be to upgrade those AAM's to Umkhonto missiles ?
The SAHV missile that it was based on was designed to swap out with Crotale missiles on the same launcher.

The Chinese missile is basically a straight up copy of the Crotale if I'm not mistaken.

Algerian1:
C28A heavy corvet . algerian navy

Also the first jet that was vulnerable to bird strikes ....from behind !

Awesome little jet that could pack a punch. I had a front row seat to see many airstrikes made by this plane. They used to come in low 2 at a time using the terrain, pop up and do either a rocket attack or drop bombs. They would then turn around and do a gun run with the 30mm cannons. Both guns going sounded like a A-10 firing. Best place to see them in action was battle school at Lohatla. They were the go to aircraft for exercises ,because they were cheap to fly and had high availability. 4 to 6 would usually participate in a Bn. sized mechanised exercises. They hung around a lot longer than mirages or bucs.

They were not just there for AF training. They also had a vital role in training large mechanised formations ho to use camo and tactics to avoid getting hit from the air. We would have to hide Coy. and Platoon sized formations and then they would come looking for us and do mock runs on vehicles they could spot. The first guys to be taken out had some "corrective PT" coming their way !
It was amazing to see how a company with a couple of dozen vehicles could just disappear no more than 50m from you in the bush.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5dIFyq9rkk

GreenandGold:
The Aermacchi MB-326BK locally known as the Atlas Impala. The SAAF oparated 260 of these and 220 were manufactured in South Africa. Flew hundreds of sorties in Angola, dropped dozens of bombs (sorry Namibians) and it was the very first jet I saw flying in the 90s, it flew very low and inverted over our house and could see the pilot's legs.


Sweet childhood memories

Under Zuma these people got away with this type of brazen theft, so they didnt even have to be particularly sophisticated.
This happened in all of the SOE in the Zuma years. If Ramaphosa doesn't fix it, SA is done IMHO

kikuyu1:


REALLY!? HTF does that even happen. Pls give us the details,not that I doubt you I'm just wondering how that even happens in any organisation.

The demo is absolutely part of their training regime. That's a SAAF bombing range like any other and the SAAF approach it as a training exercise.
All the bomb drops are directed by army FACs. This is an extremely rare training opportunity for them as well.
Only difference is that it happens in front of guests. You could argue that its a show for the ground element, but its serious business for the SAAF.
The added stress of doing a live bomb run in front of the army brass and media is actually a good training opportunity for the pilots. What is worrying is that the AF is cancelling sorties on a 1 by 1 basis now to save money.

The Army capability demo we used to hold at Lohatla was always done in conjunction with manoeuvres like sweepslag/blitz etc. The infantry Bn. was de-mobbed by then, but for the AF it was still part of their training operation.
The lack of conventional training is something that the Army/Navy/AF brass is actually complain about in the open now. The SA taxpayer is paying the same bill, but not getting the service the army is supposed to provide. The deployment of troops to support the SAPS is not to be cheered. Its a symptom of a failed Police force and justice system in a country with some of the highest crime rates in the world. I've been on many joint Police /Army operations and can tell you its 100% for show. The troops have almost no training in law enforcement and basically just do a 1 week legal course on when its ok to shoot a civvie. You basically stand around all day. I got the impression from the cops we were more of a nuisance and in the way.
We once deployed for a couple of weeks and utilised a entire B'n worth of troops to find 1 AK and some pangas.

GreenandGold:


The SAAF capability demo is a PR show meant for pictures meant to display might and it's hardly relevant to the ordinary people. Me and you know that a lot of bombs get dropped during training behind the scenes.

See, the SANDF is currently attempting to charm the public with relevant PR shows all-over the country. I've seen more SANDF shows this year than any other year. These shows are meant to display what's very relevant to the public like aiding in crime fighting, rhino poaching and vehicle recovery... I know this is a long shot from the heavy armour and mach 2 jets the military is associated with BUT this is South Africa, the public is more interested in building more clinics and free housing and the last thing you want to tell them is that the government does not have money when the military was just dropping bombs a week ago.

Of course, we're all concerned about the sinking budgets and the long term implications such as retaining the ability to fight large scale wars.

Below is a public demo at the Mpumalanga Show, Parabats security a site while the engineers construct a temporal bridge in minutes.

The Chad deal was a loss making contract concocted by the CEO and CFO ,so they could pilfer more cash through VR Laser.
The Denel division responsible for building those vehicles weren't even notified of the contract until 3 months after the deal.
SA Gov and Chad are in negotiations to return the deposit.

jln115:
the Chad deal is but a drop in the ocean, wouldn't have made the slightest of difference to Denels financial position.

Denel has contracts with the middle East worth billions yet its still in a mess.

They've also cancelled the AF capability demo this year.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/no-saaf-air-capability-demo-this-year/

If they cant even afford to drop 12 dumb bombs and shoot some rockets, what does that say about their ability to do even small scale conventional military operations ?
ZIM could probably loan $10 from the Chinese, prep for a year and launch a sneak attack with a realistic chance of success!

shadowprimezero:
I honestly don't even know what's wrong with the South African government at this point. I get the economy is generally slow these days but this is just tragic.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/sa-navy-in-danger-of-losing-frigate-and-submarine-capabilities-due-to-declining-budget/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Interesting to see the lack of an impact crater.
This type of weapon could also enable a gov. to deny responsibility. Although there would probably be more of the casing left over.

shadowprimezero:
NAF sparsely uses the FAB 500 M54 bomb due to its highly destructive potential, opting mostly for 500kg and 250kg bombs due to the nature of this insurgency to avoid collateral damage and settlement destruction. Below are the effects of the bomb on the abandoned settlement of Shafaron in Adamawa back in 2017 when the insurgents were stronger and operated in the area.

So, your solution for people attacking minorities who they (wrongfully) blame for their problems is......wait for it.....attacking another minority ??

The problem is not with the Nigerians in SA or the "Boers"
Those people wouldn't be blaming everyone else if the Zuma ANC and friends had spent the money they've been looting from the country on improving the lives of ordinary South Africans and creating jobs instead of enriching themselves and destroying the country's infrastructure.

Did you know that more dollars leave the African continent every year than money coming in as debt and aid ?
How do you think that came to be ?

Tinfoil:
Its sad to black s.Africans attack other Africans considering that the armed wing of the ANC was hosted, trained, armed,... by African countries while europe and the us supported the boers. Rather than fight other African for crumbs of the economic pie they should be targeting boers who hold most of the countries wealth

Doubt Harpoon has been integrated.
The onboard equipment would have added huge cost to the sub procurement and a US export licence would have been required for the system.
The SA Navy would also have installed Harpoon instead of Exocet on their surface ships if this was the case.
No doubt those subs could have Harpoon installed, but it would take a expensive re-fit. SA's territorial waters are well suited for close up torpedo warfare.

jln115:
They have been integrated, but not sure if the SA navy actually have any in service.

Didnt imply the AS Makopa is in the same catagory as Kaliber.That would be ridiculous. Was replying to your post thinking that it might interest you as Algeria purchased it.

Its a general purpose missile that can be carried 8x on a helicopter to deal with smaller threats or landbased targets.

SA navy only has torpedo armament. The waters arround Southern Africa is some of the best suited for submarine warefare in the world, so torpedoes are ideal.

Algerian1:


Mokopa is not in the same category . does the south africcan heroine subs have the UGM-84 harpoon missiles ? Or they didnt bought it in options ?

Some vid of what being on the wrong end of a 40mm Milkor is like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S-kOH_RY4s

Of course you need one for your backpack too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiYlryZB1ns

Plofadder shot from back of RG series.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0a_i66Vn50

Here's some vid from RDM in SA testing the Mokopa Anti-Ship warhead that Algeria uses. Would be a really bad day for most ships.
Also has vid of the Marlin missile dual pulse rocket motor firing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSXilyslcII

Algerian1:
Algerian navy launch Kalibr cruise missile from kilo 636 submarines

Start at 01:14


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjwI2g9sxbg

I think only algerian( kalibr on kilo 636) and egyptian ( Harpoon on Type-209/1400 ) have this capacity ??

Some of the weapons were for testing or demonstration purposes.
SA's nuclear strategy at the time was to detonate a test device in case of a invasion into northern SWA by Cuban and Angolan forces that couldn't be stopped by conventional warfare.

There were, however operational weapons that was designed to fit into H2 glide bombs. Two Buccaneers from 24 Squadron SAAF were modified for nuclear weapons delivery.
Although a test program is needed for weapons development, its not essential. Most of it is actually done on computers nowadays.
Israel has at the most tested only one weapon (debatable if they even did) ,but they have a large operational nuclear weapons stockpile and triad delivery options.
Testing is less necessary for gun type designs than implosion devices.

TayserMahri:


By fiat or from more insider knowledge than the president?



Something that was Hiroshima/Nagasaki type even 100 yrs later is still one hell of an atomic weapon. Not sure how you interpreted that bit.

Notice how the optics are recessed and protected. That's a direct result of experience in the Border war were the African bush would sweep your vehicle clean of appendages after long ops.
It also protects it from artillery frag from things like BM-21's
A lot of western turrets have very badly protected optics IMHO.

gripenc:
Malaysian Deftech AV8 ATGW turret made by Denel, featuring a LCT 30 turret and 4 x INGWE ATGMs.

Thanks for the invite, but I only post anon on social media. I get background checked a couple of times a year for my job, so I don't log into FB.
A good forum to check out old Armskor/Denel project are at :

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/south-african-prototypes-projects-concepts-etc.9088/

There's a couple of SA weapons forums on there with some rare pics.

Lurker4Long:


May I invite you to join the group and make the same point here:
https://www./79284870944/?ref=bookmarks

It's one of the better SA defence groups on FB.

I believe they're mistaken.
The Y3 initially used the same type of recoil absorber for vehicle mounts. There used to be a pick of it somewhere.
The spade grips are Y3. GA-1 has wide grips. Also the 20mm barrel sleeve protrudes past the shock absorbers when the barrel is off.

Lurker4Long:


Apparently, it's the GA-1 without a barrel according to the FB group where I got the pic.

Nice pic
Looks like a 40mm YGL.
Wish we had those back in the day !

Lurker4Long:


Here it is with bigger and proportional wheels.

jln115:
rebuilt Mirage IIIs!!! even older than the F1s!!!

"Rebuilt Mirage IIIs"

Rebuilt Mirage 3's with a locally produced BVR missile and a air to ground weapons delivery system that equaled the F-15 Strike Eagle in CEP.
And a 800km range cruise missile.
Also still flying today in Ecuador and the US as an opfor trainer for the USAF

Some of these are Kfirs, but that's basically just a cheetah with a different engine.

"The saddest thing is if you can't pull your weight you'll never meet your continental obligations leaving us all worse off.[/quote]"

The money that was paid by the UN to the SA gov. for peacekeeping missions never even made it back to the SANDF, so the army has to finance peacekeeping out of its own budget. Never mind replacing equipment that gets worn down during peacekeeping missions.
Completely unacceptable and irresponsible behaviour from the SA gov.

The defence review done years ago laid out a plan for the rehabilitation of the SANDF without spending a lot, but nothing has been implemented so the atrophy of the defence force will just continue until there's virtually no conventional warfare capabilities left.
By then it would take a huge amount of money to fix the problem.

kikuyu1:


Sometimes I think you guys forget with an average per capita GDP of 6300$,an experienced first world scientific, commercial and engineering cadre and a total budget resembling that of a second world country you can do better than spending some 4$bn for roughly 100K which is 1.5% of GDP. Imo,.the real issue,is the real string pullers,the faceless ones behind the scenes of your politics-THEY DON'T WANT A WELL EQUIPPED SANDF. These guys have their own plans for RSA which may even include balkanisation as a Western diplomat actually admitted to Eeben Barlow.

Good googly moogly! I heard smth similar a decade ago and dismissed it as anti ANC BS. The saddest thing is if you can't pull your weight you'll never meet your continental obligations leaving us all worse off.

Its about funds. All SANDF equipment procurement is being held up by this.
SANDF budged is mostly spent on a "officer heavy" salary burden. Its to a large extent been a retirement fund for former cadres from the liberation movement. I'm generalising here of course. There are many capable soldiers and officers from those ranks, but there are also a lot of unnecessary high ranking personnel that would have been retrenched if it was run like a business.
We have more generals per soldier than any other country I know of, because of this. The average age of a rifleman in the SANDF is also ridiculously high. Almost in the mid 30's. This situation will not change until there is major restructuring and forced retirements.

This leaves very little money left over for training an equipment. Fortunately the vehicles they do have were built for African conditions, so they can make them last to make up for this. Unfortunately the ones who suffer the consequences of this are the hard working and dedicated combat units who are actually doing the soldiering work.

kikuyu1:
61mech,frumentius,patches869,jln115 and other Saffas,tell me smth. I was looking at your legacy Casspirs,my fav MRAP after the Marauder and was shocked! Under Project Sepula they and the Mambas were to be replaced with a new vehicle almost a decade ago!


https://www.forecastinternational.com/news/index.cfm?recno=233097

Obviously engineering and human resource aren't the issue since every Saffa and his neighbour design a brand new MRAP from scatch in their spare time as we've seen on these pages. Further googling showed a host of postponed and/or delayed projects,Hotel for a new Hydrographic survey ship,Metsie for new MPAs,Vistula for new trucks etc,etc. RSA isn't Kenya or any other Africa country-you have the funds! Funds aren't the issue-WHAT THE ACTUAL EFF!?

There's no "technical" issues for the F22 not being exported. The production was stopped for political and financial reasons.
LockMart and Boeing spent millions on lobbying to have the F-22 production cancelled by congress. This was done ,because the F22 was a threat to F-35 production. The F-35 simply made more money for LockMart than the F-22 and the airforce ordering more F-22's or exporting would seriously threaten the F-35 program which they knew was running onto problems.
That's why the F-22 production tooling and jigs were destroyed to make it financially problematic to re-start production. There's simply no other explanation and the lobbying is well documented.
Ask yourself why the F15/F16 production line is still open after decades, but the F-22 had all its tooling destroyed by an act of congress. All the congressmen that pushed the legislation were heavily lobbied by LockMart and had F-35 production facilities in their districts.

The export ban had the same roots. The US exports far more sensitive tech to the Japanese (who begged for the F-22) than the F-22.
They have the latest Aegis and Spy radars on their destroyers for example.

nemesis8u:


One of the technical reason why f22 cannot be released for export is becz the f22 was solely built for domestic use and as such it's components don't have the usual anti reverse engineering countermeasures built in.

and since their manufacturing has stopped long ago , it is impossible to built insitu safeguards into those components and prohibitively expensive. Also the tech used then for f22 isn't compatible as such with current tech.

The 2 Germans in the 1st pick doesn't belong.

kikuyu1:
THE GREAT AK TRIBE: As far as I can tell these are all the variants from all the major makers from Russia,Romania,Serbia,China;the original AK 47,the Krinkov SMG and the latter AK 12s. We should be able to ID them as they're overwhelmingly popular in these parts!

The evolution of French tactics in that area has been quite interesting to observe.
Aside from SF, using gun trucks also splits your squad in to 2 or 3 vehicles as opposed to a single VBCI.
Gives you much more flexibility for patrolling large areas.

Vehicle tracks are a major source of intel for both sides in any COIN operation. For the insurgents who don't have air assets it can be their only source in low population areas like Niger.
The differences in thread pattern isn't such a major issue. In real soft sand it either doesn't show up that much or goes away after a day or 2.
A simple tactic would be to have a local force vehicle with the standard wheels bring up the rear to wipe foreign tracks. We often had a rear echelon vehicle drag a tree to hide tracks. Sometimes this was used to make a lone vehicle look like a convoy from afar.
For long runs they'll drive in single file anyway. Good idea if you don't want to give away your vehicle count.

However, you cant hide your wheelbase.
We had wheelbase dimensions included in our vehicle silhouette charts for all comblock and own vehicles. For example, if you came across a BRDM track near you on patrol it would be a good idea to brake camp Lickety-split !

Henry240:

This is not exactly true in this case.

The French army dumped their fancy special forces vehicles because of 2 things, Performance & Cost.

You see that region, from lake chad up towards Niger, Mali, Chad, Algeria and Libya is extremely harsh. Dry, hot and Arid.

Vehicles go there to die, literally.

Only the Land cruiser can survive very well that tough terrain. The French in 2013 had all their fancy Panhad Special Forces Vehicles, however I think they came to the realization you don't bring a dog to a wolf fight.

Not even the Toyota Hilux can do well there.

On the wheels of the vehicles, French Landcruisers use military grade tyres. They are not the same as what you see on the other land cruisers used by their partners.

On operating off-road, that's Niger man. The entire country is literally off-road.

Except in Naimey the capital, there are no roads.

You know the Dakar rally used to pass through large parts of Niger back when it was hosted in Africa?

As can be seen in that short docu, and some of the recent photo ops from Niger, French SF now conduct long range patrols in hordes of vehicles. It's fascinating.

Not so much of isolated units, at least from what we can see in docus and photos released in the past months.

Also very important is the tracks you leave.
The wheels/ground preasure is the same as everything else that drive arround there including the insurgents.
If you use something exotic/big like a 14t mrap they can cut your spoor for hundreds of miles and know exactly who u are and where your going.

SF units will often use diferrent boots than regular troops 4 the same reason.
Also note how they are mostly off road to avoid IEDs
Essential if your going to operate in Toyota's.
Better gas mileage than armoured vehecles also mean less supply drops that will give away your pos.

SuperSixSeven:


I read very often SF buy this vehicles (and spares) from local dealers to minimise logistics, you just leave them behind after the mission. Even UK and even US Special Operators rely on Toyotas as you can see in Syria and elsewhere. And another reason could be that you can blend better with locals. I also saw ACMAT Bastion in the video.

Tilt wing aircraft seem much simpler than these things. And they were building them in the 60's in the US.
Looks cool, but from a engineering perspective there is a lot of unproven custom parts going into this.
Tilt wings are super simple and you can use mostly COTS parts.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCd2FqTJKs0

saengine:
South African designed Pegasus vertical takeoff jet demonstrator planned for 2020

South Africa’s Pegasus Universal Aerospace is developing a vertical takeoff and landing jet and has started work building a full-scale demonstrator to display in Europe in 2020.

The vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) jet is called the Pegasus One and is intended to combine the convenience of helicopters with the benefits of jet travel. It is aimed at travellers looking for transportation between busy urban airports, small and unpaved landing areas, yachts and regular helipads, amongst others. Other applications include serving the oil and gas industry and medevac. One of its key selling points is that it does away with the need for transport to and from airports – potentially cutting journey times 45% when driving at each end of a flight is taken into account.

Pegasus is targeting a 4 400 km range from runway take-off or 2 124 km with vertical takeoff and landing with a planned cruise speed of 796 km/h. The aircraft will feature six to eight seats with power provided by two 2 300 shp turboshaft engines (most likely GE CT7-8s) – these provide power to rear thrust fans for horizontal flight and will also power four lift fans in the wings. Depending on take-off option – VTOL or runway – Pegasus One will be able to fly for three and a half to six hours, supporting direct, point-to-point travel. Pegasus One will weigh around 5 700 kg.

Dr Reza Mia, who founded Pegasus in 2012, believes the aircraft will be ready for certification and deliveries in five to seven years’ time. Pegasus estimates it will spend around $500 million to bring the aircraft to market. The aircraft will be developed at the Pegasus facility in Gauteng, but options to establish alternate full production facilities are also being explored in the USA and/or Europe.

Work is underway on a full-scale demonstrator which will be brought to London in 2020 to start a demonstration tour of Europe. India and China are also key markets. A one-eighth scale model has undergone testing to validate its flight characteristics and patents have been taken out for the design.

SA design house ADG Mobility's 8x8 development and production.

IMHO Nigeria is going about developing their defence industry completely the wrong way.
You should be leveraging large equipment acquisitions with skills, tech and production transfer from well established foreign companies. Small acquisitions of a hodgepodge of vehicles does not achieve this.

There is a model that most countries have successfully used to build their defence related engineering and industrial base. Contrary to popular belief the SA defence industry did not develop by going it alone. Our vehicle development had a lot of input from countries like Germany and there was a lot of un-advertised skills transfer.
Back in the late 80's you'd be hard pressed to find a Kentron engineer who didn't spend months at a time in Israel.

Take Kazakhstan's cooperation with Paramount as an example. They had very little capability in armoured vehicle production at the time.
They leveraged a big vehicle buy from Paramount to transfer production , and most importantly, IP and expertise from SA to Kazakhstan.
Today they have the base to design and produce their own products that are world class. Jordan and Algeria did exactly the same thing.
Look at the massive growth of the Turkish defence industry over the last 2 decades. They used equipment acquisitions from Israel and the US in a very focused way to further their own industry by transferring tech from foreign companies.

Trying to go it alone for national pride is just not the way to get where you want to be. A co-op deal with a company like Paramount with a track record in doing this for other countries would put your industry on steroids and ,more importantly provide the Nigerian Army with vehicles that has their DNA going back to some of the most capable and proven wheeled systems in military history.

Henry240:

We're making very serious vehicles and churning them out in good numbers too. If we had taken our defence industry seriously since the 60's we would have been one of the top defence exporters in Africa by now.