@Sefago: Why are you so pessimistic about the SWs future prospects? roughly 10% of Nigeria's oil comes from Ondo. If we split, then Lagos controls its own port revenue. We contribute far more to VAT than we get out. The net change in money might actually not be too negative.

Furthermore, the oil reserves offshore our coast are substantial. As well as the 43 billion barrels of oil sands in the Lagos-Ogun-Ondo-Edo axis. Investment can and will come.

Mate, not too blinded by SW patriotism a bit more pragmatic  , I love oil no be small

Lol, so many federations you guys envision its mind boggling. Cant keep track of all them tbh. These investments take time to develop. Where will the newly formed Yoruba government be getting money from. Dont forget that a huge number of Yoruba people are employed in companies and corporate Nigeria that are linked to the oil industry. All the banks and law firms specialize in oil which would disappear with the separation from Nigeria. So what all those oil and gas consultancies in lagos, what will happen to their businesses. They would now be operating on foreign soil. What would be generating income for the new nation-state in the mean time. The world economy is so harsh now than any form of weakness at this point and you would be breakfast. It takes years to set up an oil rig and start drilling oil or Natural Gas and such. Shell might just stick to the ND where they already have the necessary infrastructure, when they are done with that they might then move to the SW but then we will be broke by then.

Trust me a federation is quite different from dividing into different countries. Different countries would be one messy business. I wonder what will be the main source of revenue be for the SW. All these talk about develop the 10% oil this and that, TIA (This is Africa). Nothing works according to plan and it leaves me with the thinking that it might be a good idea to just keep the current system as it is, maybe with minor changes of course  . Ogun state might be angry that they have not produced the first president while Oyo has been producing the first president.

A glimpse of the battles in the Afenifere leadership would give you a hint of what could (or might not) happen to a Yoruba state.

Same goes for the SE though I am even more pessimistic for the SE than the SW tbh. I see their economy crashing faster than you can say "Igbo" except they tag along with the people in the SS. Our country has become so over-reliant on oil that splitting up could wreck several regions. Before we split up successful we must first diversify the economy across both regions (with oil money as a catalyst  ) and then maybe we might all be able to stand on our feet.

SEFAGO:

I thought it was a myth but a friend confirmed it. He lives in the North so its not "dem say."

Anyways would it be possible for me to marry hausa babe. Man the hausa girls are fine ooh, I used to have a crush on one of them when I was kid at 13, the chick was also 1 but she got married like 6 months after . Whatever c'est la vive. But yeah assuming their are some unmarried hausa girls of my age (quite unlikely) would they have a problem dating a non-hausa?

Thats another alternate perspective I am interested in. Inter-ethnic marriage and the Hausa issue with it.

Loool if you got money and ride in Honda then sure why not. If the Hausa girl is in Abuja or Lag lols. But you cant be rolling to no 'mallams' house seeking his daughter for marry Maybe if you convert to Islam and buy him a set of Cows though we can start discussion

But Hausawa really only marry Muslims. The men marry outside though no problem but still muslims. But the girls its usually a mallam for her , For the rich girls however its "who be ur fada?"

@Sefago:  You raise a lot of good points. Especially about the non-obvious ways in which the SW economy is dependent on oil. Wish there was publicly available state/region GDP data that would shed some insight into this.

I'm not suggesting doing it tomorrow.  Hastily doing it would be a big shock to the system and probably lead to disaster. I'm shooting more for being ready by say 2019, 2023. Something like that. 12 years should be enough time to prepare.

I think that in winding up Nigeria, one could negotiate at the minimum with the current oil-producing states some sort of 5-10 year deal that allows you to receive allocation money for that time. This will give you a lot of breathing move to ease the transition.

I don't agree about the Shell stuff. Everybody and their mamma is interested in extracting oil today. It isn't like the price of oil is $30/barrel. If no Shell, Petrobras/Sinopec/etc dey. It will take some time to start producing, but if you negotiate the above 5-10 year deal like I said, you'll have some cushion.

Regarding presidency stuff. . . nobody will give a sh1t about it if you make the FG weak. That is why I'm for this LGA resource control stuff. FG should be as bare bones and minimalist as possible. The smaller it is, the less whining and complaining about, "Hey, it is Oyo's turn", etc.

@ ekt_bear

I too smell something fishy happened in SW, with what Ribadu taking OSUN. Maybe ACN didnt mobilise for him to keep from taking votes from GEJ? Cause taking Osun showed me ACN could have swept SW.

In the North these Governor elections are crucial, Need to kick out some PDP however im not sure how much campaign CPC have done. More importantly the General needs to stay as figure head.

N/SW can break PDP come 2015 if they make the deals. 99% turnout SS/SE wont save PDP.

Failing democracy though = Civil war for the revolution we need lols.

Nadanbata:

Loool if you got money and ride in Honda then sure why not. If the Hausa girl is in Abuja or Lag lols. But you cant be rolling to no 'mallams' house seeking his daughter for marry Maybe if you convert to Islam and buy him a set of Cows though we can start discussion

But Hausawa really only marry Muslims. The men marry outside though no problem but still muslims. But the girls its usually a mallam for her , For the rich girls however its "who be your fada?"

what about the educated middle-class? they should be open-minded, No? People like Amina Az-Zubair?

BTW, is she married to a mallam? Do you know?

SEFAGO:

Although I am not phucking you either, I do feel pedantic, so I would go the extra mile and explain to you some points about Nigeria. Christianity was forced on everyone  , the missionaries came with the bible and a gun. They did not just arrive in anywhere in Yorubaland or alaigbo with a bible and welcoming big smiles and hugs from Yoruba and Igbos. The missionaries were synonymous with colonialism and the slave trade, they dealt the shiite out of the igbos (read some history). If the British wanted to impose christianity on the Northerners, they could have done so easily. It might be more expensive than the diplomatic method of indirect rule but with their technological advantage (Guns versus Bows and arrows) they could have made every single Northerner as educated as the south and bible lovers if they wanted to. It would have of cause been a very costly campaign for the Brits but then they were getting a steady flow of cash from India-so what?

They just did not bother to do it because indirect rule was most effective.

More religious IMO. The cartoons created by the Belgian cartoonists and the riot that was an outcome had nothing to do with ethnicity.

the way I learned it, christian missionaries[i] tried[/i] to evangelize in the north but the emirs refused them and appealed to the British authorities referring to the agreement they made to let them keep their religion.
yes like you said, the british acquiesced to this agreement because they didn't have enough resources to control the north. it was costly.
but  I don't agree that northerners had no say in whether they were to be converted or not.

the british authorities and missionaries were separate entities although they both represented the colonization efforts.

besides, I don't fully understand the "gun" rhetoric. you can put the gun to the man's head and tell him to do what you want. but you can't put the gun to his head and make him believe in God. religious conversion is more of a psychological process done mostly through education and positive emotional appeal etc. you don't use guns to make people convert that will be very counter productive and would make them resist rather than accept christianity. or hide their true religion while they superficially accept yours.
in fact, majority of conversion to christianity in yorubaland took place through african converts themselves. ie british educated and converted a few who in turn converted the masses. bishop ajayi crowther stands out as a prominent example.
and the missionaries tried to provide education, health services etc in order to gain converts. they definitely did not carry guns shooting those who didn't convert.

--
to me, religion and culture go together. the hausa identity and culture rests on their islamic heritage. so yea it is a religious thing but it is also cultural or ethnic so to speak.
besides the danish cartoons just served as a spark that ignited an already existing tension that was waiting to explode at the slightest provocation. this tension has a lot to do with ethnic+religious dynamics within nigeria.

if ethnicity had nothing to do with it, wouldn't you have yoruba muslims pitted against yoruba christians over the danish cartoons and in general?

Ystranger:

what about the educated middle-class? they should be open-minded, No? People like Amina Az-Zubair?

BTW, is she married to a mallam? Do you know?

In theory yes they should be. But they are like black Arabs. Guys whoever, chicks your own really.

As for Amina no Idea, Maybe she is still single?

I think that in winding up Nigeria, one could negotiate at the minimum with the current oil-producing states some sort of 5-10 year deal that allows you to receive allocation money for that time. This will give you a lot of breathing move to ease the transition.

They can renege on this any time. Infact they can use the paper for the agreement to clean their yansh. Nothing do them and they could decide not allocate anything when they form a sovereign country.

LOL, 5-10 years negotiation. Just watch how beaf behaves, a lot of SS people are just like that. They believe the oil is their birthright because its drilled in their region. Why allocate you + Igbo + Northerners, 5-10 years without economic ties. Maybe you mean a loan at stretch, just make sure the loan is in an escrow account before we leave sha.

SEFAGO:

They can renege on this any time. Infact they can use the paper for the agreement to clean their yansh. Nothing do them and they could decide not allocate anything when they form a sovereign country.

LOL, 5-10 years negotiation. Just watch how beaf behaves, a lot of SS people are just like that. They believe the oil is their birthright because its drilled in their region. Why allocate you + Igbo + Northerners, 5-10 years without economic ties. Maybe you mean a loan at stretch, just make sure the loan is in an escrow account before we leave sha.

I dunno. You could have them sign something witnessed by the international community, and have it paid into a special account administered by say the UN.

300 years, of course they'd find a way to renege. But 5-20 years is pretty doable, imo. Maybe I'm full of crap though, who knows.

ekitibear and sefago, are you guys planning to become politicians or something?

anyways, which region do you think has a stronger manufacturing base or potential to develop one? SW or SE? I think SE. so you should be scared.
oil wealth is a curse unless you are choosing not to export most of it. or the size of your country is like that of UAE. which will be the case of SS stands alone.

the way I learned it, christian missionaries tried to evangelize in the north but the emirs refused them and appealed to the British authorities referring to the agreement they made to let them keep their religion.

You are not detracting from my previous statement. I am not disputing the fact that attempts were made to evangelize the North and these attempts were quickly stopped. I am pointing out that every region resisted attempts to evangelize them. Other regions didnt have the choice the North had.

the british authorities and missionaries were separate entities although they both represented the colonization efforts.

LOL, I know that, however the british colonial government and the missionaries always came together

besides, I don't fully understand the "gun" rhetoric.

You misconstrued my statement and are using "rhetoric" wrongly. You mean metaphor (I am using gun to represent the violence that comes with evangelism during that period)

besides, I don't fully understand the "gun" rhetoric. you can put the gun to the man's head and tell him to do what you want. but you can't put the gun to his head and make him believe in God.

Ask Uthman Dan Fodio, he will explain to you how it is done .

religious conversion is more of a psychological process done mostly through education and positive emotional appeal etc. you don't use guns to make people convert that will be very counter productive and would make them resist rather than accept christianity. or hide their true religion while they superficially accept yours.

No, but you use guns and violence to ensure that you can build churches within a region. You forget that the Yoruba and Igbo had their own religion and traditions too. The missionaries could not just bring another God without some challenges. However those challenges would be hastily silenced by the Colonial Powers. If you think the leaders of pre-colonial Nigeria just let oyibo people build churches within their territories and boundaries so that they could see white people every day you must be on some kool aid.

The conversion process is of course much easier immediately you can establish churches and start the brainwashing process. Its the first part that is much more difficult and requires violence. This is my thesis- Most Africans in the precolonial era saw a challenge to their Gods as a challenge to their tradition and culture and consequently an insult to them. They definitely put up a fight thats for sure, which was quashed by the colonial government. That's why Missionaries and Colonial Governments are paddy paddy.

in fact, majority of conversion to christianity in yorubaland took place through african converts themselves. ie british educated and converted a few who in turn converted the masses. bishop ajayi crowther stands out as a prominent example.
and the missionaries tried to provide education, health services etc in order to gain converts. they definitely did not carry guns shooting those who didn't convert.

Yes but they had to set up shop before they could start the brainwashing process. If you think Africans gave up their native religion so easily then my lady you gotta learn more about ur history. I doubt all the Ifa and Sango priest as well as Amadioha priests watched by while their source of lively hood and position in society was being snatched by missionaries.

I dunno. You could have them sign something witnessed by the international community, and have it paid into a special account administered by say the UN.

300 years, of course they'd find a way to renege. But 5-20 years is pretty doable, imo. Maybe I'm full of crap though, who knows.

Yeah but the problem is making them agree. Like why would they do that really? The best we would get is probably some structural loan packages by the oyibo people in the IMF and World bank to put us on our feet till we can form a stable economy, which could take like 10-20 years. We would need this money to set up at least some sort of centralized government. Issue is that if we are corrupt (and trust me I have no illusions about the absence of corruption) or if our economy is not as buoyant as planned within that period, we go deeper into debt. Very risky business.

But Yeah the best option would be either to convince them oil producing states to dispense us some major cash (for whatever reason) ornext best thing is to become an aid receiving country and unforunately guinea pigs/case portfolios for development economists.

Bros, so let us have a strong economic plan before we cut out of Nigeria one that is very very strong. If our economy does kick in though, I would prefer a more socialist framework for our government, centralized health care systems, free and strong public school education (from the primary to tertiary level) with little to no private schools. These things tend to lessen corruption. We can bring in big business but we should tow the line of building a strong middle class group.

I personally think that we should also try and strip/downplay people of their local identity (Egba, Awori, Itsekiri, Ekiti and just homogenize the country). Like remove state of origin from government records or census data and use state of residence.

oil wealth is a curse unless you are choosing not to export most of it. or the size of your country is like that of UAE. which will be the case of SS stands alone.

This actually highlights a point with respect to the UAE which depends on a large foreign worker base for their oil operations especially South Asians. The SS will still need skilled labor. The other regions could allow free flow of workers or give people from the SW the right to work in the SE or SS without any issue. That is one trade concession that could be useful so that if s/h/i/t hits the fan we can all migrate to other countries

anyways, which region do you think has a stronger manufacturing base or potential to develop one? SW or SE? I think SE. so you should be scared.

It is impossible to tell. It would strongly depend on the type of leaders each region receives. Dont be deceived by the superhuman complex of the SE. They dont manufacture anything of note per se. But they could surpass anyone if they have strong leadership and government that is focused on developing manifacturing. But then we should just make sure to sign a Labour Exchange agreement so that we can migrate there anytime we want hehe

Jenifa_:

ekitibear and sefago, are you guys planning to become politicians or something?

I'd prefer not to be. If I see that Yorubaland is on the right track, I can pursue stuff that I'd probably enjoy doing more. But if my country needs me, I'll be willing to serve in whatever capacity is needed.

anyways, which region do you think has a stronger manufacturing base or potential to develop one? SW or SE? I think SE. so you should be scared.

Why? What competitive advantage do they have over us? I don't think they'll be able to produce electricity any cheaper than we will. And we'll have a seaport of our own. Not only Lagos, but this Olokola Deep Seaport we are building in Ogun/Ondo axis. So I don't see why we are at any disadvantage. In any case, they aren't really relevant for our own manufacturing. . . it is countries like China, Taiwan, other manufacturing hubs in East Asia. Can you meet the same price points for producing goods that they can? With electricity, I think we can. And if we meet those price points (or aren't too far off), then the sky is the limit. You can then dominate the local West African export market, and then expand to other markets in Africa and beyond. Ogun/Ondo axis should be the manufacturing hub of West Africa (at least).

@ Jenifa
You started this thread in the middle of the night so could not contribute and for some reason nairaland site seems to be very slow today. However my response to you is below:

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Hausa/Fulani people. You don’t even have to look far if you are truthful.

I ask everyone here to think of all their personal Hausa friends or colleagues in school, at work, on your travels and so on. Is there anything wrong with them?

Think about some public Hausa people like Tafawa Balewa, Ahmadu Bello, Sanusi Lamido, Aliko Dangote, Nuhu Ribadu, Muhammadu Buhari, Abdulsalam Abubakar and so on. Are they any different from Obafemi Awolowo, Nnamdi Azikiwe, Pat Utomi, Mike Adenuga, Tunde Idiagbon, Alex Ekwueme and so on?

Think about some other public Hausa people like IBB, Saminu Turaki, Atiku Abubakar and so on. Are they any different from Olusegun Obasanjo, James Ibori, Tony Anenih, Bode George and so on?

A lot of people point to the high number of illiterate thugs (Violent Area Boys) in the North to condemn ALL the Hausa people. But you may as well point to the high number of educated touts (Yahoo Yahoo fraudsters) in the SW to condemn ALL the Yoruba people. Or point to the high number of crooked businessmen (Cocaine Pushers) in the East to condemn ALL the Igbo people.

We have a major problem in the North (just like other regions have their own problems), but our so-called National Leaders do not care about the masses. When they get to the corridors of power, they do not have any tribe or religion. They join the “Elites club” while the masses (including many of us) worship them and protect them with all our might and even our blood. They don’t give a hoot what happens to us. THEY are the ones responsible for ALL the problems in Nigeria.

Nadanbata:

Loool if you got money and ride in Honda then sure why not. If the Hausa girl is in Abuja or Lag lols. But you cant be rolling to no 'mallams' house seeking his daughter for marry Maybe if you convert to Islam and buy him a set of Cows though we can start discussion

But Hausawa really only marry Muslims. The men marry outside though no problem but still muslims. But the girls its usually a mallam for her , For the rich girls however its "who be your fada?"

exactly

@SEFAGO:  Why wouldn't they agree? Pay out a 5-10 year lifeline so that your neighbor doesn't starve to death, and in exchange you get your freedom and can chop the remaining money for all eternity (or until the oil runs out). Or do you think they could just say, "Screw that, no money, we'll just secede outright?" And if they could unilaterally tell us to screw off, why wouldn't they do it right now?

It is like the deadbeat cousin you have who has been living in your spare room. You can either kick him out to recover your space, or give him a month to look for a job and find his own crib. I don't think we've pissed off Ondo, Delta, Bayelsa, Rivers, etc enough that they'd just tell us to F off.

Bros, so let us have a strong economic plan before we cut out of Nigeria one that is very very strong.

I completely agree. I have no desire to hop from the frying pan into the fire   Firm financial foundation for Yorubaland before secession.

If our economy does kick in though, I would prefer a more socialist framework for our government, centralized health care systems, free and strong public school education (from the primary to tertiary level) with little to no private schools. These things tend to lessen corruption. We can bring in big business but we should tow the line of building a strong middle class group.

Err, I'm not quite a socialist. I'm not sure about centralized health care, but universal health care is certainly a must-have. Free public school . . . well, I agree on the free part. Public schools aren't really the best way to efficiently spend money while meeting educational objectives. I prefer private schools + voucher system to public schools. Let the FG come up with the money, set the standards and testing, and let private industry run the schools.

I personally think that we should also try and strip/downplay people of their local identity (Egba, Awori, Itsekiri, Ekiti   and just homogenize the country). Like remove state of origin from government records or census data and use state of residence.

Totally agree. Though I think that this is already sort of happening. . . urbanization+intermarriage+Yoruba language/culture weakening local ones has really helped a lot. Anyway, definitely ban it. Society shouldn't care about LGA of origin, religion, etc. All of that is private stuff.

I always laugh at people who keep on shouting: SPLIT! SPLIT NIGERIA!! SPLIT NIGERIA!!!. Want to know why? Let us assume that the country does split. Do you think that means there will be no more Igbos or Yorubas in the North? People, should speak for themselves and stop generalizing. So what would happen if the new "alien" Igbos get killed in the assumed "Northern Nigeria" State. A war between it and the newly formed "Igboland"? Don't even let us go into border demarcation and the use of River Niger and Benue.

maclatunji:

I always laugh at people who keep on shouting: SPLIT! SPLIT NIGERIA!! SPLIT NIGERIA!!!. Want to know why? Let us assume that the country does split. Do you think that means there will be no more Igbos or Yorubas in the North? People, should speak for themselves and stop generalizing. So what would happen if the new "alien" Igbos get killed in the assumed "Northern Nigeria" State. A war between it and the newly formed "Igboland"? Don't even let us go into border demarcation and the use of River Niger and Benue.

You are making a lot of sense here. My participation in talks about spliting Nigeria has been minimal these days for I consider those talks, an academic exercise and nothing more. I've also observed that it has become an exotic topic particularly for our brothers who reside in diaspora. Here in Nigeria, no one is seriously considering that option. No one has the apetite to deal with the implications of spliting the country or even trying to split the country.

A necessary first step towards spliting the country is the convening of a "national conference". All the presidential candidates who promised to convene such a conference were rejected. The people of Nigeria do not want to split the country. We are better off managing regional crisis than spliting the country when a majority of Nigerians is not interested in doing so.

@ekt_bear, why negotiate for any of the oil in the ND region? If you want to split, let them carry their oil resources and go. The off-shore oil is what must be negotiated, any arrangement which calls for 100% control of that oil by the coastal aread in less that 300years, is dead on arrival.

ekt_bear:

.
Err, I'm not quite a socialist. I'm not sure about centralized health care, but universal health care is certainly a must-have. Free public school . . . well, I agree on the free part. Public schools aren't really the best way to efficiently spend money while meeting educational objectives. I prefer private schools + voucher system to public schools. Let the FG come up with the money, set the standards and testing, and let private industry run the schools.
Totally agree. Though I think that this is already sort of happening. . . urbanization+intermarriage+Yoruba language/culture weakening local ones has really helped a lot. Anyway, definitely ban it. Society shouldn't care about LGA of origin, religion, etc. All of that is private stuff.

I am glad SEFAGO waded in to offer his own token. I really dont think your idea will work in the 'new SW.'  Anything short of socialism will most likely fail at this point . Like SEFAGO posited, The Welfare State is the best for us, at least at this moment; Big Government so to speak. The Welfare State is one in which the state through a host of different  services tries to raise the standard of living of the population and help the people to meet the various troubles that they have to pass through. It is better as  it guarantees parliamentary democracy and respects the private ownership of the means of production although some means of production may have to be nationalized to secure the smooth running of the modern state.  For instance, MTN in the new Odua state would have to be nationalized. Nationalization here is being used loosely to mean either acquisition by the state or assisted acquisition by the state on behalf of Nigerians, to be headed by a Nigerian or Nigerians in the form of PPP. The kind of profit MTN makes should not  be allowed to leave Nigeria under any circumstance.  My main issue is that we need to carry everyone along and exploit the talent that is inheretnt in everyone, as long as they are from the SW. The welfare state would not only mitigate poverty, ignorance, and disease but also abolish them completely and guarantee a minimum standard of life below which no citizen will be allowed to fall. Capitalist on the other hand thrives on the fear of the people, and in a way, uses a certain segment of the population for the betterment of an elitist group.

The only place I disagree with my younger brother, SEFAGO, is the issue of education. I get his point, but I dont think everyone should be forced to send their wards to public schools. A great public system should be built, but people should still have the freedom to send their schools to private schools if they want. Lets face it, Government, not just in Nigeria, dont do a great job when it comes to education. And, anyone who wants better or worse for their children should be at Liberty to do so. Government shouldnt try to micromanage private lives.

On healthcare, I think Universal health care = Centralized health care if I understand both of una correctly.The concept is the same, not sure of implementation though.

In the final analysis, your 'pump-in-as-much-money-as-possible' method aint gonna fly in the 'new Odualand.' It would be counterproductive and in the long run result in political servitude to external forces.  Something I so desperately want to avoid. Nothing good comes out of being controlled by Shell et al. They never have your best interest.

ndu_chucks:

You are making a lot of sense here. My participation in talks about spliting Nigeria has been minimal these days for I consider those talks, an academic exercise and nothing more. I've also observed that it has become an exotic topic particularly for our brothers who reside in diaspora. Here in Nigeria, no one is seriously considering that option. No one has the apetite to deal with the implications of spliting the country or even trying to split the country.

A necessary first step towards spliting the country is the convening of a "national conference".  All the presidential candidates who promised to convene such a conference were rejected. The people of Nigeria do not want to split the country. We are better off managing regional crisis than spliting the country when a majority of Nigerians is not interested in doing so.

@ekt_bear, why negotiate for any of the oil in the ND region? If you want to split, let them carry their oil resources and go. The off-shore oil is what must be negotiated, any arrangement which calls for 100% control of that oil by the coastal aread in less that 300years, is dead on arrival. 

You are so wrong. People do want to split. The topic was not adequately dealt with. if it was debated and throughly discussed, you'd be shocked at the number of people who would be FOR it. To claim that people were rejected on that basis, is just being stupidddd. The election wasnt even credible, so how would you know?

Ystranger:

You are so wrong. People do want to split. The topic was not adequately dealt with. if it was debated and throughly discussed, you'd be shocked at the number of people who would be FOR it. To claim that people were rejected on that basis, is just being stupidddd. The election wasnt even credible, so how would you know?

The Nigerians I deal with from in all parts of Nigeria do not discuss spliting the country or show any interest in it. Those of you in diaspora are the ones who keep talking about it. None of your leaders will even bring the topic up for discussion at any level; GEJ is definitely not interested in it. There are more Igbos in the North than are in the whole of SE, do you think those people support spliting the country?

P.S., easy on the name calling, stop using words like stupiddd when there are not applicable or I'll deal with you like I'd treat a cook who screws up my Suya. olodo

ndu_chucks:

@ekt_bear, why negotiate for any of the oil in the ND region? If you want to split, let them carry their oil resources and go. The off-shore oil is what must be negotiated, any arrangement which calls for 100% control of that oil by the coastal aread in less that 300years, is dead on arrival.

Lol. There is no chance of them agreeing to that. Territorial water rights are an integral part of a nation. If if they agreed to it, they'd renege after some years.

I would't agree to that if I were them. . . I'd say F off.

Regarding "dead on arrival". . . sounds like a good way to blow the little good-will you have. Isn't like you control an army or have some other leverage to force them to agree. If they say no, then the status quo continues. One in which they'll eventually make you (and I) their slaves.

@Ystranger: I don't believe in socialism. I think it is fine for rich countries that don't mind the slower economic growth and inefficiency of huge government. But poor countries? Socialism in 3rd world countries makes no sense. You need to chase growth as much as possible. Goal should be 10%+ GDP growth every year, not 3% GDP growth with some large socialist state.

Spending a bunch of time worrying about how to share a tiny pie (socialism) seems counterproductive. I'd rather have inequitable sharing of a very large, rapidly growing pie (capitalism.)

From observing and contrasting India and China over the past 20 years or so, it should be clear that socialism actually diminishes average wealth/happiness rather than increasing it. Don't quote me on this, but likely in 1980, their GDP/capita were relatively similar. One country wasted years playing around with things that don't work (socialism) and today has a GDP/capita no better than that of Nigeria. The other country realized, "Hey, let's switch to a free-market, manufacturing based economy", and now their GDP/capita is like 3-4 times that of India, and their citizens are way better off.

Anyway, I believe in the following services one might associate with socialists:
- Healthcare
- Free and mandatory K-12 education
- A few other things

But nationalization?  Dangerous ground.
I guess for you, your motivation is, "Hey, MTN is making money hand over fist. I don't want to see that money leaving YLand."

Fine, if that is the case, you can:
- Heavily tax MTN.
- Encourage competitors to sprout up to drive down their profit margins.
- Encourage some rich YLand businessman to buy MTN, maybe giving him a bit of assistance securing a loan. Etc, etc.

But the last thing you should do is to take public funds intended for social services and spend them on non-core competencies. Plus, governments generally do a crappy job of running private businesses. Fastest way to kill the profitability and effectiveness of MTN imo would be to have a government take it over.

PLEASE ONE QUESTION. , IS NADANBATA THE ONLY NORTHERNER HERE ON NAIRALAND? WHERE ARE U KINSMEN NADANBATA, SCARED TO WRITE? OBVIOUSLY. SINCE THEY CAN'T RAISE ARMS AGAINST US IN THE FORUM, THEY FIND IT UNINTERESTING! PLEASE TELL THEM TO FIND ANOTHER HOBBY THAN KILLING AND MAIMING, NO RELIGION TEACHES THAT BUT I THINK SOME DO NOW!

Better late.
*bookmarked*

the country is going to break,
it's only a matter of when, and
revolution comes with blood, SMGDH

@ Bukittes, I'm a Hausa/Fulani woman and I'm a Christian. Contrary to misconceptions, we do exist but are not numerous enough to influence our Muslim brothers against violence. We're just as appalled by the riots and burnings as the rest of the country/world and blame it on poor education, joblessness and Imams that preach hate.

I wrote more about Hausas and violence, as well as other issues pertaining to being a Hausa woman here: http://hausanigerian..com/

It's correct to say that Hausa Muslims are still proud to be Nigerian, but defending Islam comes first

The violent riots we saw in recent days are utterly condemnable. It was inhuman and should be punished. I want Jonathan to walk away from his “clueless “image and use all the security apparatus and the treasury (and why not? He used them all to get “elected”) to fish out the real culprits, try them in courts and carryout all the judgements and many will face the death penalty and I will hail him for bringing the rule of law to Nigeria –again (PDP normally gives 2 years holiday apparently in Kirikiri when you steal 12 billion Naira and welcome you with fanfare when you returned fresh and tanned.)

After all that then I want him to prepare a  timetable to divide the county –North/South- nothing to do with above recommendations, My reasons;

(1) A man who will sit at a top level meeting with top level representation of the largest political party in Africa and sign an agreement as no32 participant bound by this agreement on the future strategy of their party for providing stability to a plural society and; then comes out publically to deny it because of personal and regional gains is not and will never be a man of honour and we can never trust him, and he will do worse. So we separate peacefully.
(2) The PDP rigged elections and have done that always. This time they changed tactics, use more of the carrot than the stick of ballot box snatching and stuffing. Instead just empty the country’s treasury and buy anybody that has a price (money was carried in cartons by individuals in Awka and almost all places in Nigeria on eve of elections. So at collating centres all the PDP votes are doubled and trebled!(Please see the write up by the British high commissioner John Campbell on the election http://www.dailytrust.dailytrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17453:nigerian-presidential-elections-the-devil-is-in-the-ballot-collating&catid=1:news&Itemid=2).
(3) Next is to deny anything wrong and give everyone else apart from themselves a bad name and direct accusations. The Northerners among them have the almajiri’s who are kept uneducated, unemployed, uninformed by the Nigerian Government (PDP in the last 12 years) specifically for this purpose. Destroy and kill so that North and Muslims can be blamed. Divide the country Jare!! Lets have a time table now! GEJ can go and rule the Yorubas and the Igbos, they voted him in. I wish him good luck.

Quote:
Nairaland is represented predominantly by southerners and so a lot of the comments about hausas lately are very negative and I wanted to use this thread as an avenue to let hausa members (esp. those living in the north) to air their own views and opinion on the current affairs in Nigeria.

I personally am trying to see things a bit from northern perspective because I know we are all human beings and people tend to rationalize the decisions that they make. I think i've had enough igbo/yoruba perspective of the "barbaric" northerners. This thread is for Hausa to speak for themselves.

No abusive, condescending words allowed here.


This is the  problem we have in Nigeria. We dont see ourselves as one. The reason we dont is because we refuse to intergrate our cultures. This due to poverty lack of education and low employment.
Nigeria is full of a multitude of languages and all we need to do is encourage intertribal education and merging do we all understand each other and see ourselves more and more as one.
Nigeria isnt the only country with lots of tribes, yet we are the only country with lots of problems! Those that blame the problems on the tribe of leader shouls remember that igbos yorubas hausas and fulanis have ryuled and have all failed. This current leader including, he will rule for 4 maybe even 8 years and he will make no observable difference. Corruption will continue poverty will continue and Nigerians will get no smatrter as we continue to trumple the globe in search of greener pastures.

Rather than point fingers and play the blame game all day why dont we collectively think of ways Nigeria can be better? Collectively decide on who should lead by experience devotion and merit? Voting due to religious and ethnic reasons never works anyway!

ndu_chucks:

The Nigerians I deal with from in all parts of Nigeria do not discuss spliting the country or show any interest in it. Those of you in diaspora are the ones who keep talking about it. None of your leaders will even bring the topic up for discussion at any level; GEJ is definitely not interested in it. There are more Igbos in the North than are in the whole of SE, do you think those people support spliting the country?

A lot of the Nigerians I deal with talk about splitting, and I deal with many Nigerians in Nigeria. I guess we are all colored by our experiences. BTW, because we split don't mean Dangote will be forced out of Lagos, that will be dumb, it should not mean that Yoruba Oil and gas professionals have to leave PH, that will be silly. It doesn't mean my Igbo friend here has to break up with his Hausa babe, actually that will be good for his competition.

If Nigerians can own businesses in Ghana, China and Dubai, I don't see how a split should send everyone back to their country. Except it's a violent division.

Ouright "SPLITTING" is not the only political solution we can use, it is more like a worst case scenario, those who think it will lead to war should also realize that some if us who advocate it are speaking in the sense of a negotiated political division, not something you necessarily need to put a gun to peoples head to achieve. I repeat, I mentioned splitting as a worst case scenario.


Now, there are other possibilities which should work for a truly Federal Nigeria or any if it's confederacies-If we decide to form loosely independent regions.  We need to break this central control we have in all sectors into smaller admin units. Like it was discussed on another thread and alluded to by ekt_bear,  our country is too centralized for the kind of political and social culture we have. This is not an homogenous country.

Politicians can easily run to the center and commit atrocities on their communities, steal funds and still get protection from the federal army, federal police and federal centralized treasury, just because they belong to the ruling party.

What we've witnessed this week shows that it will be harder for a political leader to exercise too much control locally if he does not have local power, the local competition will kill him off easily. Even VP Sambo's house got burnt in Kaduna.

We need to take police powers to local units, my police should be from my community, staffed with people from my community not outsiders, they understand the language, the culture, their family shares the pain and misfortunes plus the successes of the community.

Same should apply to the management of utilities, education and even specific local laws. The center should only bother about maintaining fundamental or universal Nigerian laws and codes, plus national defense and monetary policies. We don't have to split, but if we can't make this behemoth work we better be ready to do just that so other regions can go practise whatever they think is right for them.

It is foolish to think we can continue to manage this Nigerian behemoth based on sentiments of forced unity. Nigeria was formed in 1914, there are still people alive who were born before 1914, it's not too late to form a new nation or at least RADICALLY restructure this one. We will get used to it like we got used to amalgamation within one generation. Folks need to quit with the elitist fear tactics.

So IMO, It's all about the system, If we can't restructure and reduce the influence of the center we better be ready for a bigger conflict in 2015 and beyond. I'm personally predicting Somalia on out a$$ess if we don't restructure. If not for oil, we would have been Somalia already.  

Where are the Northerners now? Only Nabadaba and namfav since? We need more perpectives from them. Ndu_chuks is pan naija he doesn't count

@Tweety121^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^could Islam be the culprit of the northern violence as you claim? hardly, my dear.

islam betters the manners of the individuals. if you can't say its the ethnicity, why say it is the religion, especially you know nothing about this noble religion than the sound bits from her enemy, similar to what the enemy could say about the ethnicity?

i will not say that it is in the ethnic make up of the northern people. i will not accept that it is islam if you cant accept that it is the ethnic make up, because as you are a christian, i am a muslim. it is christian you will claim that makes you a better person, while islam has done the same in my life.

i will not buy the excuse of poverty, but instead say that act ignorance is a horrible disease. it is ignorance of the wilding mass and the hypocrisy of those who know but refuse to use their knowledge for progress are the reasons we have this sad situation.


the imam who whip up people into evil emotional state is not following islam. islam is not supporter of destruction. hypocrites and ignorant are where you find evil.