This Thread is purely for dialogue so If you have any venom to spew or any ignorance to put on display, kindly take it elsewhere! Thank You

I wanted to point out a few myths that have been redundantly mentioned on NL.

1) Northerners have a "born to rule mentality"
Really? is that why they voted for MKO Abiola overwhelmingly in 1993?

2) Some will say the reason chief MKO Abiola was voted for by the north is because of him being a muslim! But then when its convenient, someone will turn around and say Hausas don't feel yoruba's are real muslims. Funny how the hypocrisy works.

3) Now concerning Buhari, some accuse the north of retrogressive thinking! Ask any northerner, what was Buhari being called in the north in campaign rallies? He was being called "mai gaskiya" which loosely translates to the "honest" one. Northerners believe that Buhari is incorruptible and is for the common man. He has the record to prove this.

4) Therefore, when votes were rigged to favor GEJ, northerners felt the south chose tribalism over honesty, hence the killing.

5) Now I condemn the killing of innocent lives. That is totally wrong and the religion of Islam says "If you kill an innocent soul, it is as if you have killed all of humanity" Killing is permitted only in self defense. All this talk of infidels is silly. An infidel in Islam is one who does not believe in the existence of God. Christians and Jews are called "people of the book" those who come from the monotheistic faith tradition of Abraham. Muslims believe in Jesus as a messiah. It therefore follows that Muslims do not believe that Nigerians in the south who are majority Christians are infidels. Most northern kids are taught this.

6) The criminal elements that slaughtered innocent citizens on the basis of religion are wrong and its inexcusable. But lets be clear, these riots were purely political but because Christians voted for GEJ solely because of religion, it gave politics a very religious tint.

7) Buhari is a progressive, we should all know this by now, he is not a bigot, if you have proof, I'm ready to see it and accept it. He is not corrupt and would have made an excellent leader had the south not been bamboozled into believing he is an extremist. It was misleading and your elite in the south misled you. In the north too, the emirs conspired against Buhari because they know his position.

I don't want to rationalize death but please provide me the statistics of how many southerners died in the violence. Majority of the people that died were Hausa pdp supporters. and pdp big wigs' property and pdp offices were mostly burned down. Christians were killed but a small percentage of the total number of people killed in the riots and a very tiny percentage of the total number of southern Christians living in the north. very very tiny percentage. There are more southerners living in the north than there are northerners living in the south. Igbos run most major markets across the north. So dont assume this is anything other than political.

Crap, fit only for almajiri's.

Please be courteous and don't turn this thread into a trash talking one.


I have enumerated in my opinion as a northerner, the causes of the violence and the perspective of a large number of northerners. Please provide alternative opinions or views or perspectives on the causes.

I also want to ask the southerners who contribute or read this if the south is within this democratic arrangement willing to share power with the north on the basis of zoning? or do you prefer a situation where the south will refuse to hand over to the north in 2015 or 2019 serious and rational comments only comments only.

Beaf:

Crap, fit only for almajiri's.

I know you're GEJ's die hard supporter, please put your irrationality aside and reason. do you want to see a civil war in Nigeria? are you willing to pick up a gun nd fight? do you believe in creating tolerance and understanding between the regions?

This is simple. don't turn this thread into gutter trash talk please beaf!

gadogado:

Please be courteous and don't turn this thread into a trash talking one.


I have enumerated in my opinion as a northerner, the causes of the violence and the perspective of a large number of northerners. Please provide alternative opinions or views or perspectives on the causes.

I also want to ask the southerners who contribute or read this if the south is within this democratic arrangement willing to share power with the north on the basis of zoning? or do you prefer a situation where the south will refuse to hand over to the north in 2015 or 2019 serious and rational comments only comments only.

It is better to actually go to school than fall back on crap like zoning, and relying on FG job's and largess rather building businesses in your home states.
There is no reason to hand power back to the North before the almajiri's are all educated, or the whole country will be dragged down to their level.
Dude, sit back and watch the country develop in the next 4 years. You will see another graphic illustration of how the country wasted 38 years.

If you think that the South ruling you is a matter for civil war, then you are a funny character indeed. I'm wondering how you will fund a civil war with begging bowls in a country thats tired of your antics from the Middle Belt downwards and with educated Emirs ceding leadership to almajiri's (who have burnt down palaces).

Weird.

Gadogado, at least I like the fact that you are being open to ideas which is a sign of a "progressive".
Now, my MAIN question to you is, why must we rotate the presidency?? If we Nigerians want progress, then we should always pick the best man for the job e.g Sanusi, Fashola, Amechi, Chime et.al. Why would the North not vote for a non-muslim candidate?? The only time they did vote for a christian was OBJ and that was because the elites knew that Yorubas wanted to break away (they know that for them to break away, it must have been planned to PERFECTION!)and the Igbos are always on for secession as long as part of their kins in the SS come with them. That will lead to the total destruction of Nigeria. Hence, their political calculation was for OBJ to ascend the "throne". The same thing also happened to the SS when MEND threatened secession, they installed GEJ. Now, GEJ beat them at their game, they are crying about.
I am for Buhari, make no mistake about that because I think he is an honest man but most southerners are indeed tired of the perennial killing of southerners especially of the Igbo origin (this is since 1948 and we are in 2011   ) and the 38 years of rule( I know that was not your fault in all honest but us southerners).

Now, if we elect people based on merit, you and I know that the North will hardly produce a leader again because the Igbos and the Yorubas will rule Nigeria. Why, they are the most educated groups in Nigeria while the North, instead of using their years of misrule rule to educate their people, they did not. If its about Ideas, you also know the South has that.

What will all this lead to? Your guess is as good as mine. The north will SURELY be marginalised in the affairs of the Nation and will start their killing or plan a coup. The country will eventually be in anarchy

Now, resource control.
I am sure ALL southern groups are up for that. The SS can have their Oil while the Yorubas and Igbos can have their oil coupled with Human resources. The north practically survives, depends and live off this oil. Hence, the thought of resource control will never be an option. We, as a people, have to learn to reduce the dependance on OIL. What if the SS secedes?? What will happen to Nigeria?? Is Nigeria going to die?? I am sure the Yorubas and Igbos will be up for the challenge but will the North be?? Do you see these issues

Corruption: In as much as I agree that corruption is a Nation-wide problem, much of it is due to the balkalisation of the South and lack of federalism hence, the people cannot hold their leaders accountable for their failure. Only the Yorubas have been able to do that. why? Because they are operating true federalism in Nigeria without the Government knowing thus, the shout of tribalism by other Nigerians especially the Igbo. They are holding and shaping their destiny by their hands. The SS is also doing the same, they have woken up and are now ready to take Nigeria by storm because they know Nigerians LOVE OIL MONEY!!!
The Northern Youths are getting there but since they involved the South in their killing, their actions smells of tribalism and religious intoleranc[b]e. Btw, why did the North not riiot when Yaradua(God bless his soul) was rigged in?[/b] You see??!!! Most of the North action is driven by the greed to remain in power.

Anyway, long story short, I cannot wait for the Nigerian populace to wake up and know the truth about the Northern political elites. The Northern Educated Youths should raise up and defend their region from these cannibals such Ciroma and co before the country reaches its boiling point (that if its not so already ) . The sooner, the better. Its been predicted that the country will break up 2015 but the Northern elites are accelerating that process. Why? To force a military coup and remove GEJ.

Enough said!!!!

In fact, Gadogado. We need to talk. Let us address this issue once and for all. I am an advocate of Southern Nigeria (even though I know some groups will use that opportunity to break away and steal as much land and they can by wiping out some small minority groups. Anyway, thats for another day and topic. I dey laugh ooo!) and I want us to have a chat. Thanks.

^
He thinks power should be handed back to the core-North, not on merit, but because they can kill youth corpers.

Beaf:

It is better to actually go to school than fall back on crap like zoning, and relying on FG job's and largess rather building businesses in your home states.
There is no reason to hand power back to the North, before the almajiri's are all educated, or the whole country will be dragged down to their level.
Dude, sit back and watch the country develop in the next 4 years. You will see another graphic illustration of how the country wasted 38 years.

If you think that the South ruling you is a matter for civil war, then you are a funny character indeed. I'm wondering how you will fund a civil war with begging bowls in a country thats tired of your antics from the Middle Belt downwards and with educated Emirs ceding leadership to almajiri's (who have burnt down palaces).

Weird.

Ok Firstly, I commend you for somewhat taming you're venomous tendencies. Secondly, your premise is faulty because a) you're talking about a development that has not occurred, you said 4 years, I'm assuming you're saying southerners being in power for another 4 years will transform Nigeria into greatness but a southerner was there for 8 years and not much changed other than GSM. Another fallacy is that you give the conclusion that it is the region that produces the leader that is the cause of Nigeria's slow paced development as opposed to a social cancer namely corruption that has inflicted the whole country not just one region.
Furthermore, you're quite the emotional guy, on the one hand you say the northerners plundered the country which implies that they "the Northerners" have quite a lot of resources at their disposal then you turn around and claim the region is poor and cannot fund a civil war. How does that work. I'd like you to understand that the existence of beggars is not always an economic issue but a social one as well. Go to to NY city, you'll see homeless, starving beggars yet they live in the wealthiest country on earth and a city with one of the highest incomes on the planet. your logic will have them not existing.
Again, lets be reasonable hear, think like a statesman if you have the ability to at this point.

Beaf:

^
He thinks power should be handed back to the core-North, not on merit, but because they can kill youth corpers.

Would you oppose a Sanusi Lamido Sanusi presidency on the basis that he lacks merit??

Beaf:

^
He thinks power should be handed back to the core-North, not on merit, but because they can kill youth corpers.

Gbam, that the MAIN problem I have. Well, let's wait for him to answer. . .  

gadogado:

Would you oppose a Sanusi Lamido Sanusi presidency on the basis that he lacks merit??

If he is the best person for the job then no wahala BUT the North only has a FEW of them will in the south, them bokun!!!
In all honesty and seriousness, what do you think of a Fashola and Chime ticket?? Or Chime and Amechi ticket?? Or Fashola and Amechi ticket I will be waiting for your responce. Btw, you have not responded to my previous post. I hope I did not hit the nail too hard!! *Jokes*

I think power should go back to the north in the interest of unity and fair play. And merit as well as credentials are not something that any sane person will over look. Oh, merit is what many people dumped for pure unadulterated sentiment in the presidential elections. Otherwise, Buhari is not corrupt and very capable, but you were scared into thinking he's a muslim extremist, there you go, your emotions and fears appealed to and exploited.

@jason, lets chat then, got no beaf with that!!


Again, lets be serious, the whole there are no educated people in the north is a lie!! A big one and you know it. Its quite foolish for anyone to think that!!! If Nigeria must continue then clearly, power must be shared. Do you have an issue with that

gadogado:

I think power should go back to the north in the interest of unity and fair play. And merit as well as credentials are not something that any sane person will over look. Oh, merit is what many people dumped for pure unadulterated sentiment in the presidential elections. Otherwise, Buhari is not corrupt and very capable, but you were scared into thinking he's a muslim extremist, there you go, your emotions and fears appealed to and exploited.

Okay, I get your point of view @fair play and all BUT we cannot run a country like that ad expect it to be one of the best in the World. It's just not possible. Instead, why don't we go back to federalism( with 6 regions) where the best in the North can rule the North. The best of the Igbo , Yorubas, SS or MW, NC, NE can rule themselves. That way, we do not have to fight, yet we will also be progressing at our own pace. What do you think??

@gadogado.Do not waste your time with the PDP paid agents.I already know most of those things you wrote and most Southerners know them as well but there is a propaganda going round aimed at giving an impression of ethnic killings and polarizing the country.

General Buhari has never been an advocate of zoning and has openly opposed it till this day.

There were no riots in the past 12 years because voter turn out was low and people cared less about voting.It is quite painful when you suffer to vote and it ends up not counting.Moreso if it is ridiculously rigged.I will never vote again until there is a revolution in Nigeria.

In my State of Imo for example people are trooping out to vote for Rochas but we all expect Ohakim to be declared winner and the Army and Police used to silence any probable uprising.

That is Nigeria for you!

gadogado:

@jason, lets chat then, got no beaf with that!!  


Again, lets be serious, the whole there are no educated people in the north is a lie!! A big one and you know it. Its quite foolish for anyone to think that!!! If Nigeria must continue then clearly, power must be shared. Do you have an issue with that

We all know there are educated people in the North but they have been suppressed by the Elites and moreover, they are small in number compared to the South. A typical Southerner cherishes education and will sponsor themselves to any level. Its in the culture to be a progressive in the south but the North is more "religion" oriented than development. Why don't we simply partition the country or have true federalism?? Why do we (North and South) have to make each other uncomfortable.  If it's the oil, I am sure the North (Chad) has oil.
My Northern brother,  trust me, the moment their is SNC that is the day Naija go find him Square root.
In fact, most Northerners prefer a Muslim to rule them than a Christain (Understandable), so why not split or have true federalism?? I mean, the North can progress with the migration from the South while the South can also progress at her pace.

Off topic: I think most Notherners (at least, the elites) are scared of the South over run them or something because most of their decisions are illogical (no offence).

Abagworo:

@gadogado.Do not waste your time with the PDP paid agents.I already know most of those things you wrote and most Southerners know them as well but there is a propaganda going round aimed at giving an impression of ethnic killings and polarizing the country.

General Buhari has never been an advocate of zoning and has openly opposed it till this day.

There were no riots in the past 12 years because voter turn out was low and people cared less about voting.It is quite painful when you suffer to vote and it ends up not counting.Moreso if it is ridiculously rigged.I will never vote again until there is a revolution in Nigeria.

In my State of Imo for example people are trooping out to vote for Rochas but we all expect Ohakim to be declared winner and the Army and Police used the silence any probable uprising.

That is Nigeria for you!

Abagworo, I love your comments and all but we have to approach a complex issue such as this from a neutral and diverse point of view not just the PDP vs Propaganda POV.
Yes, I am against zoning but since it was done, then obey it. Now, the South jettisoned it, no problem. It just shows one thing, we are not compartable as a country under central rule. What about regional governments?? Power will be closer to the people, they will not feel marginalised and everyone is happy.

Off topic: I think most Notherners (at least, the elites) are scared of the South  over run them or something because most of their decisions are illogical (no  offence).

This last riot was against the Northern PDP  elites including revered Traditional Rulers so I don't quite agree with the above.Again during the campaigns Buhari never talked about North/South-Christian/Muslim but it was PDP that used it as a campaign strategy.

another thing we southerners don`t understand is how to kill a Muslim brother when they win election

Abagworo:

This last riot was against the Northern PDP  elites including revered Traditional Rulers so I don't quite agree with the above.Again during the campaigns Buhari never talked about North/South-Christian/Muslim but it was PDP that used it as a campaign strategy.

I dislike you so much. Why did they target Christians, Southern Corpers and just any regular Southerner who lives in the North. You are a dammn apologist.

jason123:

Abagworo, I love your comments and all but we have to approach a complex issue such as this from a neutral and diverse point of view not just the PDP vs Propaganda POV.
Yes, I am against zoning but since it was done, then obey it. Now, the South jettisoned it, no problem. It just shows one thing, we are not compartable as a country under central rule. What about regional governments?? Power will be closer to the people, they will not feel marginalised and everyone is happy.

Exactly Buhari's manifesto.Go and read it and understand why only the elites in the North are against him.He even advocated abolishing "State of origin" and replacing it with "State of residence".That is what we need to avert a looming catastrophe.

gadogado:

Ok Firstly, I commend you for somewhat taming you're venomous tendencies. Secondly, your premise is faulty because a) you're talking about a development that has not occurred, you said 4 years, I'm assuming you're saying southerners being in power for another 4 years will transform Nigeria into greatness but a southerner was there for 8 years and not much changed other than GSM. Another fallacy is that you give the conclusion that it is the region that produces the leader that is the cause of Nigeria's slow paced development as opposed to a social cancer namely corruption that has inflicted the whole country not just one region.
Furthermore, you're quite the emotional guy, on the one hand you say the northerners plundered the country which implies that they "the Northerners" have quite a lot of resources at their disposal then you turn around and claim the region is poor and cannot fund a civil war. How does that work. I'd like you to understand that the existence of beggars is not always an economic issue but a social one as well. Go to to NY city, you'll see homeless, starving beggars yet they live in the wealthiest country on earth and a city with one of the highest incomes on the planet. your logic will have them not existing.
Again, lets be reasonable hear, think like a statesman if you have the ability to at this point.

You can say all you like about Obj, but his regime moved Nigeria forward more than any of the retrogressive regimes that ruled us for 38 years ever did. Obj started the diversification away from oil, paid our debts. In his time Nigerians became proud enough of their culture for Nollywood and Nigerian music to take root and capture Africa, also comedy to sprang out of the streets of Delta state to become a multi-million Naira phenomenon.

The 38 years of Northern rule saw the dismantling of the groundnut pyramids, the death of manufacturing, cotton, rubber, cocoa, oil palm, education, standards bodies, morality, humanity and the enslavement and inhuman pollution of the Niger Delta.
The 38 wasted years also saw the manufacture of 10 million almajiri's and the segregation of the core-North through sharia.

Dude, handing power back at this time will be a gross error. There will be no qualms handing power to a Middle Belter though, but core-North? Thats a strict NO.

Only  in Bauchi State , these people had been confirmed dead. Ukeoma Ikechukwu, Anslem Sylvester Nkwazema, Obinna Okpokiri and Kehinde Adeniyi.

http://www.punchontheweb.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art201104264484946

How long shall we tolerate the non productive northern youths to kill productive southern Youths. enough is enough. In 1966 Buhari was the one that killed Igbo soldiers in cold blood, i have the records. Since independence the North had been in charge and nothing to show for it. Even buhari ruled as a dictator and did not perform. He should be charged for coup which he did. We are going to revenge seriously. Now the northerns will do their services in the northern dry land while we do ours on the southern oil lands. we are blessed.

and pls send ur Northern youths to school pls,

To be fair I will like to know if everyone killed is a Southerner and all properties destroyed belong to Southerners.Let us put aside the homes of the Emir of Kano and Zazau.

Abagworo:

To be fair I will like to know if everyone killed is a Southerner and all properties destroyed belong to Southerners.Let us put aside the homes of the Emir of Kano and Zazau.

^^

sheriff777:

Only  in Bauchi State , these people had been confirmed dead. Ukeoma Ikechukwu, Anslem Sylvester Nkwazema, Obinna Okpokiri and Kehinde Adeniyi.

http://www.punchontheweb.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art201104264484946

How long shall we tolerate the non productive northern youths to kill productive southern Youths. enough is enough. In 1966 Buhari was the one that killed Igbo soldiers in cold blood, i have the records. Since independence the North had been in charge and nothing to show for it. Even buhari ruled as a dictator and did not perform. He should be charged for coup which he did. We are going to revenge seriously. Now the northerns will do their services in the northern dry land while we do ours on the southern oil lands. we are blessed.

@Bolded
Senseless talk!!! Please, do not talk about something you clearly know nothing about!!! That was not the North's fault but the South's fault. Learn to accept blame and the truth.

Abagworo:

Exactly Buhari's manifesto.Go and read it and understand why only the elites in the North are against him.He even advocated abolishing "State of origin" and replacing it with "State of residence".That is what we need to avert a looming catastrophe.

Hmmmm. . . you have a point. Just read the thread about it. I'm about sleeping, will continue tomorrow. . .

jason123:

@Bolded
Senseless talk!!! Please, do not talk about something you clearly know nothing about!!! That was not the North's fault but the South's fault. Learn to accept blame and the truth.

Those officers did not participate in the coup. So what made it there fault?  

Innocent EASTERN officers were killed. So please save the BS.

^^^^ what south? i hope you don`t mean akwa ibom, cross river  too

Where is this record you are talking about? People certainly believe he does, but I do not see any real records similar to what you listed below.

3) Now concerning Buhari, some accuse the north of retrogressive thinking! Ask any northerner, what was Buhari being called in the north in campaign rallies? He was being called "mai gaskiya" which loosely translates to the "honest" one. Northerners believe that Buhari is incorruptible and is for the common man. He has the record to prove this.