nateevs:

And why would you? I am not quite sure you have properly analysed Danny's deficiencies.

BlueDiva:

Perhaps you would kindly list them out.

I'm an old school follower. Strikers are meant to score goals.
All other functions are secondary. I don't care about keeping shape and all other technicalities.

So far, Danny has been the most prolific striker.
FT has had about 5 good games in almost 1year, Haba!

dayokanu:

Check my records on NL, I have always said Torres is a mediocre striker only made good by the English league

See how good Silva, Kun AGuero and even Mata look now compared to their status in their previous leagues.

Klose was good in that time frame around 2006, but currently now Gomez shyts on him for Bayern.

Purple patch is what you called a player who is only 3rd behind Ronaldo and Messi in the lasy 4 seasons summed together?

May your patch be purple  

nateevs:


Keeping the shape is technical football. It is what keeps a team going for a long time.
It is what keeps a manager's job for a long time.
JM was a master at maintaining team shape. That's why he achieved a lot here.
You cannot have a striker who scores goals and then the team loses all the time, else we should we should be buying Darren Bent.

The shape creates chances, prevents goals, and improves the overall team's performance.
The modern day striker offers more than just goals.

nateevs:

Chelsea 5 - 0 Genk.

nateevs:


Keeping the shape is technical football. It is what keeps a team going for a long time.
It is what keeps a manager's job for a long time.
JM was a master at maintaining team shape. That's why he achieved a lot here.
You cannot have a striker who scores goals and then the team loses all the time, else we should we should be buying Darren Bent.

The shape creates chances, prevents goals, and improves the overall team's performance.
The modern day striker offers more than just goals.

nateevs:


Keeping the shape is technical football. It is what keeps a team going for a long time.
It is what keeps a manager's job for a long time.
JM was a master at maintaining team shape. That's why he achieved a lot here.
You cannot have a striker who scores goals and then the team loses all the time, else we should we should be buying Darren Bent.

The shape creates chances, prevents goals, and improves the overall team's performance.
The modern day striker offers more than just goals.

coogar:

i beg to differ.
you said torres from a mediocre club in la liga came to england and is dominating the news media.
a theory you had always used to back the fact that english defenders are useless. yes or no?

they are all playing for man city and chelsea. multi-million pound clubs with world class players all round.
this is the same as saying cristiano ronaldo's league in portugal was better because he dominated in england or hernandez's former league in mexico because he dominated in england. the quality of the club has changed. if you play aguero in stoke, he will be anonymous. who was david silva last season in the league? did you sniff him? now that more quality has been added to his team, he's bound to shine.

gomez even shyts on gerd muller now. messi shytes on maradona.
gomez shytes on klinsmann and rooney shyts on george best.

name one trophy this mario gomez won in the last 4 seasons summed together.
i know ronaldo and messi won league titles, champions league titles and tonnes of individual awards.
roll out gomez's achievements. in my opinion, diego forlan, david villa, rooney and even milito all shyte on mario gomez.
goals must lead to titles. scoring 200 goals per season without them bringing any glory to the club is meaningless

BlueDiva:

Ok, so Torres is keeping the shape and not scoring.

Don't think RA bought him for 50mil to be keeping shapes.
Damn, Anelka probably keeps the shape much better.

Let's keep sentiments aside and spit it as it is.
Torres has been a massive disappointment. Admit is sir, i know you for being honest.

nateevs:

Now you are mixing two different things. You said you do not care about shape but goals.
And I tried to tell you what that opinion is wrong.

I have in no way told you that Torres is the best £50 purchase.
Infact you, FBS and Ibime were the ones telling me Aguero was overrated when I was asking for us to splash on him instead of Torres.

coogar:

you are very intelligent!
i am grossly impressed.

for herbs like dayokanu and ibime.
they only see goals and their comparison is based on goals/apps all the time.
look at ronaldo today. his game has suffered. he has been converted to a pure goal scorer.
he cannot dribble past his marker without speed. his link up play has deteriorated
even his first touch now is abysmal but he scores obscene amount of goals.
compare him in man utd in 2006/7 where his strength was leaving his markers for dead and shooting to score. he was a menace to defences then. he couldn't be stopped. he crossed better, passed the ball better and his smart link-ups were exemplary.

there are more to strikers these days than goals. it has always been like that until the prevalence of the blogosphere where wikipedia rules the roost.
imagine what dayokanu would be saying about zola, bergkamp, cantona, kanu and even maradona if there was internet then. dayo would say hasselbaink was a better player than zola or kevin phillips was better than cantona and ian rush was better than maradona

dayokanu:

What is the difference? Torres was mediocre in la Liga he came to EPL became a star overnight this shows how crappy the standards in EPL are. check out others like Aguero, Silva and mata who have become the best players in their teams which is a congregation of stars.

These former mediocre players are now the best players in multi million Dollar squads. Its easy to be the best player in Bolton but they are the best players in the best English clubs? Why didnt Garether barry or James Millner or Raul Merelies become icons like these former mediocre la Liga players?

Gomez best cant match gerd muller

Even Ronaldo Lima won a few club medals yet he was one of the best players in Europe in his lifetime

So Gomez must be in good company  

coogar:

torres moved to liverpool. aguero, silva and mata moved to a better club than torres did.
for instance, look at javier hernandez. if he was playing else where say in aston villa, he would be less dominant.

joe hart
edin dzeko
david silva
adam johnson

what were the performances of the players listed here before in comparison to now.

a winner of 2 world cups, several copa america titles and confed cup.
name one trophy gomez has won for germany. please, just one!

he's not - he's won nothing on the continent.

klinsmann,
rummenigge
voeller
hrubesch
littbarski

the names above are far far far better than mario gomez

BlueDiva:

It's only on NL that people come up with all sorts of analysis.
A striker is meant to score goals, simple.

If you want flair, get a creative midfielder, a playmaker.
Van Nistelrooy was useless in most games but he always delivered the goals.

dayokanu:

Ronaldo in Man Utd was needed to do all those stuffs as he is the most creative player by a mile, In Real his creative skills are not needed they need his scoring beast to come out.

Why bother with twinkle toes, step over when you have Ozil, Kaka, Dimaria behind you?

Mentioning those names would impress European football mediocres like Nateevs
How many of those names you mentioned are top 9 in the mould of Torres None. They all played behind a top striker who banged in goals
Zola played behind hasselbaink and TA Flo, Bergkamp played behind Kluivery and Henry, kanu played behind strikers Maradona was not a top 9

Its like comparing Baggio to Vieiri.

Coogar you are disgracing yourself here

dayokanu:

That must mean it would be easier to be better players in smaller clubs than in bigger clubs innit?

What about them? I dont even know Adam Johnson before Man City.

Joe Hart has always been good maybe improved, Millner, Barry what about those?
Really? Did he win all these in European club football?

How does what Mesi won for Argentina concern a Barcelona fan?

How many goals did the above score for their clubs?.

coogar:

rooney and giggs were far creative than ronaldo.
you did not pay attention back then. 2006/7 was the only season ronaldo was far and above everyone else in england.
go and see the quality of his goals then. he was messiesque/ronaldinho-esque.

just saying he's now a king of tap-ins.

football back then was 4-4-2. no one played behind anyone.
strike partnership was what it was called. . . .any of 9 or 10 could score goals then depending on the state of play.
otherwise, maradona wouldn't score 5 goals for argentina in 86. he had a number 9 ahead of him.

funny how you remember one played behind one now.
where was your brain when you used to flog berbatov as a flop?
dayokanu, you shouldn't be engaged in football debates.

no, comparing baggio to vialli.
baggio scored more goals than vialli in 1990.

sneijder scored more goals than van persie in 2010.

nah, you are the disgrace.
scoring goals is the most important feature in football. it decides games and it's sometimes the difference between losing and winning.
however, some strikers are more than scoring goals in what they provided on the pitch.

for example, would you say maradona flopped in 86 world cup final against germany?

nateevs:

No Ma. It's not only on NL.
Look at managers like AVB and you know there are actually managers who believe in shape.
DD was not all that prolific when he got to Chelsea but DD was employed for a reason.

We suffered greatly any time DD and Lamps didn't play. Why? Because of the shape they created.
It was instrumental for Chelsea's dominance. That's one of the reasons Sheva could not deliver at Chelsea.

A striker is meant to score goals and Torres has not delivered but he's all we have.
DD is not going to get better, neither is Anelka. Danny is too inexperienced to be played as the sole CF. Plus he's supposed to fill the role of inside forwards AVB likes to deploy.

Unless you are suggesting we should go bring Lucaz Piazon and Islam Feruz from the academy, Torres is here to stay until Roman suffers another brain spasm and shells out £60m for Andy Carroll . . . . . again!

dayokanu:

You are threading on unfamiliar territory and dont let me take you to the cleaners

Berbatov has always been a top 9 and he is a top 9. He played ahead of Franca in Leverkusen, He led Spurs line and played ahead of Keane He also led manure lines and his space has been taken by Chicharito now .

Guffanti. Schilacci was the top striker for Italy in 1990 and he scored 6 goals Baggio only managed 2

Thats because van persie was useless at that time and for most of his career

In football a top 9 scores more goals than the 8 behind him.

Research well and avoid goofs this time around cos I wont be merciful

Maradona was the best player ever and he would always dwarf anyone played beside him the same way Messi outscores all other strikers in his team

coogar:

the most important thing is playing in a club of world class players and getting many games under one's belt.
mata, aguero and silva would be anonymous playing for west ham or everton

you are not a big fan of epl so i am not surprised.

joe hart has improved massively.
milner has improved compared to the rubbish he was in aston villa.
barry is too old to be reckoned with. we are talking about young players with loads of time ahead of them to improve.

ronaldo won uefa cup, didn't he?

ask arsenal fans how they celebrated when cesc won euro 2008/world cup 2010.

they didn't have to.
football isn't only about goals otherwise dennis bergkamp won't be a legend. same as eric cantona.

coogar:

10 plays behind a 9 in a 4-4-2 abi your brain don blow it's gasket?
it's 4 and 8 in the central midfield. 2-3-5-6 in the defence.
7 and 11 on the wings. 9 and 10 top striking.

you are a disgrace! a big fat disgrace for a football acolyte.
vialli was the top striker. it was after vialli flopped that schillacci became the cinderella of the italian team.
go back to wikipedia and read again. schillaci was a substitute in the group games.

so what happened to him?

dayokanu:

Average/mediocre players in the La Liga have now turned to demi gods in the EPL. Simple.

I mean how many people knew Adam Johnson before Man City?

What has improved about Milner? if thats what you call improvement then I am sorry for English football

UEFA cup? For the player of Ronaldos status is all he can say in EUrope? Same tournament won by Schalke 04 nameless players?

Why do you have to hit people below the belt, We are talking about people you mentioned Arsenal fans. mmsscchhheewww

They were not out and out strikers and goals cant be used to measure them rather its their creativity

dayokanu:

8 play in Central midfield? Its no use discussing football with you. bring any team that played 442.

You mean Teddy Sherigham played beside paul ince?, You mean for Man Utd in 1999, Andy Cole played beside Roy Keane?

What was Schilacci? 8 or 9? Simple its meaningless aruing who was sub or not. Baggio was a 8 So what role did Salvatore Schilacci play?

What happened to a useless striker? Same thing thats happening to Torres .

The 4-4-2 formation is one of the most commonly used in the world game.

It is an adaptable system that gives teams strength in midfield and plenty of width. The role of central midfielders and full-backs, particularly, can change depending on how much emphasis a team is putting on defense or offense.

Full-backs are given more of an attacking role in this system than in years gone past.

The 4-4-2 formation is effective because it can be adapted based on whether a team is setting out to attack or defend.

Strikers in the 4-4-2 Formation

It is common in this system to have one striker playing high up the field capable of holding the ball up and laying it off to his partner. This player furthest up the field is often a big target man, with the physical strength to hold off defenders and bring his teammates into play.

But the front two does not have to comprise a big man and another striker running off him. Often teams choose to deploy a withdrawn striker, capable of playing in the 'hole' (the area behind the main striker) and using his creative skills to set up those around him, primarily his strike partner. Former Netherlands international Dennis Bergkamp was a prime example of this type of player.

If a coach opts to field a creative player in the 'hole,' the formation transforms into a 4-4-1-1.

Whichever front two combination a coach chooses to field, the player who is not a big target man or a withdrawn creative player, is likely to be a goalscorer, with the nous to sniff out and score chances in and around the penalty area.

Central Midfielders in the 4-4-2 Formation

In a 4-4-2 formation, it is common to have one defensive midfielder and another whose job is to get forward and join the strikers in the penalty area.

The defensive midfielder is charged with breaking up opposition attacks, and when the team is on the back foot, act as an extra member of the defense. Most good teams have a player capable of screening the defense, acting as an insurance policy should the team surrender possession. Three of the best defensive midfielders currently in the game are Michael Essien, Javier Mascherano and Yaya Toure. It is players such as these that allow the team's more attacking players to push forward.

The other midfielder still has defensive responsibilities, especially when his team does not have possession. But it is key that he gets forward to support the strikers when the team have the ball, otherwise there is a risk that the front men would lack support, particularly if the wingers are not of the required quality.

nateevs:

If AVB was us to excel in the way he forsees, he needs to drop JT, Ramires, Mikel, Bosingwa and Malouda and replace them appropriately.

dayokanu:

http://worldsoccer.about.com/od/skillsandtactics/a/4-4-2.htm

It is common in this system to have one striker playing high up the field capable of holding the ball up and laying it off to his partner. This player furthest up the field is often a big target man, with the physical strength to hold off defenders and bring his teammates into play.

But the front two does not have to comprise a big man and another striker running off him. Often teams choose to deploy a withdrawn striker, capable of playing in the 'hole' (the area behind the main striker) and using his creative skills to set up those around him, primarily his strike partner. Former Netherlands international Dennis Bergkamp was a prime example of this type of player.