dare2think:

Can you then mention one political party/institutions/organization or affliation that is/was not corrupt or open to collusion in history

Can you then mention one political party/institutions/organization or affliation that is/was not corrupt or open to collusion in history

nuclearboy:

Or one "Church"?

Enigma:

Erm yommyuk, careful and softly softly

Obasanjo, Bush jr, Tony Blair?

By the way, on small churches, the Bible itself says not to denigrate little beginnings. I also referred earlier to Romans 16

Consider also places like China and some Islamic countries where the Church necessarily has to be underground and the importance (as well as power, I daresay) of house churches.

Look at how the Asian Muslims are becoming a formidable force in the Uk and compare that to the Christians. Wherever the Asians muslims setup residence in the uk (East London, NW England), the MP of the area gives them due recognition. But look at the church, division everywhere.

I am not against believers gathering in 2s and 3s for bible studing or fellowship. But making that a pernament thing is self centred. The gospel must be preach outside the walls. There is power in numbers.

nuclearboy:

I think you missed Enigma's meaning. From the days of the Bible, the uncorrupted church seems to have always been the "persecuted" church. Funny isn't it, that once established and powerful, human organisations become political.

In effect, the true church has always been persecuted and maybe because of the persecution, remains pure - such has NO choice at risk of being destroyed. If we follow history, you will find that most persecutions have been performed by "churches" against newer movements refusing to toe the line of corruption the old order had gotten enmeshed in.

Of neccessity, such persecuted or emerging churches have few members