@Enigma,

B Who RECEIVED the Tithes (in the form of money) from them?

Whether it was their harvest-stuff in raw form (the increase of their seed, the tithe of their corn, of wine, of oil, the firstlings of their herds and of flocks, etc.), or these stuff converted to money form - they all represented their TITHES and nothing else! And who were those who received these tithes from the tithers?

We have instruction from God's WORD as to those who received (or 'gathered') the tithes from the tithers. In the first place, the tithers themselves were to either 'LAY IT UP' (vs. 28, if they were not far from "the place which the LORD thy God shall choose"; or 'BESTOW' their tithes in money form (if they were far from that place and could not carry it tither - vss. 24-26). The bottomline was that, there was only one rule of law for everyone who was to offer any thing at all to the LORD - there were no separate rules and laws for the same thing (cf. Num. 15:13-16).

The examples given us as to those responsible for receiving the tithes from the tithers point to the priests and the Levites:

(a) the Levites were appointed to minister to the tabernacle, and
they usually encamped round about it (Num. 1:50-53); they were
also responsible for the service of the ministry, and the service of
the burden in the tabernacle of the congregation (Num. 4:46-47).

(b) the examples in the history of the Israelites show precisely
that the Levites received the TITHES in an orderly manner. ALL
were certainly to partake, but the bottomline is that both tithers,
and Levites, and the poor folks were to gather at God's chosen
place and EAT in His presence (Deut. 14:23) - all partaking of
that FEAST freely, in the sense of a banquet.

Let me offer just one example for (b) above (I already did so before, but a reminder may be helpful here) - 2 Chron. 35 -->>

(2)  And Hezekiah appointed the courses of the priests and the Levites after their courses,
every man according to his service, the priests and Levites for burnt offerings and for peace
offerings, to minister, and to give thanks, and to praise in the gates of the tents of the LORD.

(4) Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests
and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the LORD.

(5) And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance
the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and
the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.

(6) And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also
brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated
unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.

(8 ) And when Hezekiah and the princes came and saw the heaps, they blessed the LORD,
and his people Israel.

(9) Then Hezekiah questioned with the priests and the Levites concerning the heaps.

**(10) And Azariah the chief priest of the house of Zadok answered him, and said, Since
the people began to bring the offerings into the house of the LORD, we have had enough
to eat, and have left plenty: for the LORD hath blessed his people; and that which is left
is this great store.

(11) Then Hezekiah commanded to prepare chambers in the house of the LORD; and they prepared them,

(12) And brought in the offerings and the tithes and the dedicated things faithfully: over which
Cononiah the Levite was ruler, and Shimei his brother was the next.


I would encourage you to read the whole chapter and note the beautiful picture given to us there. Of interest to our present discourse is the fact that this passage showed that when the people brough in their tithes, they gathered them into a "heap" at the place which God had assigned them. Second, when you read from verses 13 to the end of that chapter, you'd see that certain people actually were charge with the responsibility of "distribute" (vs. 14) what was gathered. And remember that part of what was gathered at that place as a "heap" was TITHES (vs. 5 - "the tithe of all things".

Of particular interest as well is verse 10 - "Since the people began to bring the offerings into the house of the LORD, we have had enough to eat, and have left plenty: for the LORD hath blessed his people; and that which is left is this great store." Why is this of any particular interest? Because GOD keeps His promise to bless them when they tithed. Please come back to Deuteronomy 14:29 and see the promise there that God made to them when they tithed:

"that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest."

Notice again that no one "forced" or "coerced" them to tithed. Although it was a "commandment" in both Deut. 14:22 and 2 Chron. 35:5, yet the people joyfully and willingly offered all they did - including their tithes!

@Enigma,

Now, one more thing to the second part of your concerns. It is a fact that when you compare all the passages dealing wth tithes, there is NO single verse that gives the idea of a commercial or market activity when the people came together to tithe and EAT before the LORD and celebrate His blessings. I've enunciated this in detail, and instead of arguing back and forth, I'd rather that anyone who feels they have something to point out as deeply flawed in my posts should do so simply - and save the slobbers. I hope we can respect that (it's not such a big problem for me to return chilli to rascals).

Secondly, take another look at Deuteronomy 12 that I offered much ealier; and you will find indeed that God did NOT intend tithers to engage their TITHES in a commercial or market sense at the worship center. I'll just close here by offering the direct quotes again:

Deuteronomy 12:

(5) But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there,
even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:

(6) And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave
offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds
and of your flocks:

(7) And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto,
ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee.

(8 ) Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right
in his own eyes.

(11) Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell
there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices,
your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD

(12) And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and
your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as
he hath no part nor inheritance with you.

(15) Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after,
according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean
may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.

(17) Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil,
or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill
offerings, or heave offering of thine hand

(18 ) But thou must eat them before the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose,
thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is
within thy gates: and thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God in all that thou puttest thine hands unto.

(21) If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee,
then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded
thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.

(26) Only thy holy things which thou hast, and thy vows, thou shalt take, and go unto the place which
the LORD shall choose:

(27) And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD
thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God,
and thou shalt eat the flesh.

(32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.


I hope I've helped answer your queries, clarified issues (even if it was detailed), dissolved disturbing dilemmas, and refreshed your heart. I'd be enthused to read from you, and I'll gladly welcome corrections where you can claerly point out the flaws where you suppose them.


For now, cheerio. . and many blessings.

Questions of where the "tithers" spent their converted tithe money and from whom they bought oxen, sheep, alcohol etc are so simple they were never worth bothering about. I'm only going to deal with them for readers to compare the simplicity of interpretation of the relevant passage to convoluted contortions. I will deal with it by making a contemporary comparison with Nigeria.

Here goes:

We have Nigerians living in 36 different states: God says to them - I want you all to go to a place I shall name and have a big feast there: take tithes of crop to the place; but if the place is far, instead of taking tithes sell it; note that: sell the tithes!!! Therefore instead of taking tithes --- take money. When you get to the place I choose spend the money on sheep, wine or whatever you like. Later, God tells them that the place where He wants them to go is Lagos. The Nigerian travelling from Maiduguri realises that it is easier to take money to Lagos than to carry "tithes". He sells the tithes; takes the money to Lagos; when he gets to Lagos, he buys his sheep, oxen, wine etc; he then goes to the temple where he enjoys a good party in the name of the Lord with fellow Nigerians.

Simple points:

1. The person "bestowed" i.e. spent his converted tithe money in Lagos.

2. He did not "bestow" or spend it by giving it to some pastor.

3. The person himself enjoyed what he bought with the tithe money and shared it with the less privileged

4. The person himself chose what to buy with the money.

5. A careful observer would also have noticed that "tithes" was not even money at all but simply crops, grain and, in some circumstances, livestock!


Question:

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Enigma,

Enigma:

Questions of where the "tithers" spent their converted tithe money and from whom they bought oxen, sheep, alcohol etc are so simple they were never worth bothering about.

Oh really? And what else was happening that "they were never worth bothering about"?!?

And you'd have to explain why Jesus was averse to the idea of COMMERCIAL/MARKET activity at the place of WORSHIP in John 2:15-16. Please don't slip away under the same excuse, yes? Thank you.

Enigma:

I'm only going to deal with them for readers to compare the simplicity of interpretation of the relevant passage to convoluted contortions.

If they were convoluted contortion, please show precisely WHERE God asked them to turn the celebration into commerce! That's all I asked.

All I have used so far is the WORD of God. Nothing else. I'd like you to please answer the questions I offered earlier:

I want you to do me the following:

(a) please find me a verse - any verse - that stipulates there that God had established a
MARKET center at "the place which the LORD thy God shall choose" (Deut. 14:25, since
you've a problem with the term "designated place");

(b) please find me the verses that clearly show us who were the SELLERS, the TRADERS,
the MERCHANT men, the TYCOONS, the MONEY CHANGERS, the ENTERPRENEURS, and
the RETAILERS who sold tithes to these tithers. Just who were these traders?
(and please proffer such a text in your feedback)

(c) if the concept of a MARKET system was ordained by God Himself at the center -
("the place which the LORD thy God shall choose" - for ANY reason at all during worship,
why then did Jesus show such aversion to that idea in John 2:15 & 16?

(d) does it make any sense at all to you that tithes were "bought" and "sold"?
What was the idea behind "selling" one's tithes and using your "tithes" (in the form of money)
to buy other people's "tithes"?

Please simply answer those questions. Thank you again O!

Enigma:

Simple points:

1. The person "bestowed" i.e. spent his converted tithe money in Lagos.

2. He did not "bestow" or spend it by giving it to some pastor.

3. The person himself enjoyed what he bought with the tithe money and shared it with the less privileged

4. The person himself chose what to buy with the money.

Please, please and please, mr Enigma, what you are doing is UNDIGINFIED! Do NOT cheat your readers behind the counter here by emphasizing a wrong interpretation of the word used in Deuteronomy 14:26! You could as well push the idea that an angel is the same as an eagle in Rev. 8:13 according to NKJV!!!

Clearly, there are three different Hebrews words for:
        [list]
[li]"BUY"  --  [קנה - qânâh][/li]

[li]"SPEND" --  [שׁקל - shâqal]; and -
[/li]

[li]"BESTOW"  --  [נתן - nâthan].[/li]
[/list]

. . . and dear Enigma, they are NOT the same thing at all!!!

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

Enigma:

5. A careful observer would also have noticed that "tithes" was not even money at all but simply crops, grain and, in some circumstances, livestock!

Did I not call your attention to that very fact earlier? Was it not YOU who kept stressing MONEY?!? You guys make me laugh so hard at your misery. When you find your own arguments closing in on you, then you complain as if I argued something else!

Enigma:

Question:

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

I've shared clearly on this point. I'd like to ask you the same question I asked before, and even repeated the same to TV01:

I delineated the TWO different words to the point that:

             to "buy" [קנה - qânâh]

                  is NOT the same thing as

             to "bestow" [נתן - nâthan].

Please, Enigma. . . can YOU show me that the word "BUY" [קנה - qânâh] was EVER used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

I need an answer to that question.

- - -

And if you insist that the word there was "spend", then again:


             to "spend" [שׁקל - shâqal]

                  is NOT the same thing as

             to "bestow" [נתן - nâthan].

Please, Enigma. . . can YOU show me that the word "SPEND" [שׁקל - shâqal] was EVER used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

I need an answer to that question.


I simply would be enthused if you could honestly offer the simple truth on this matter before you go on emphasizing what God NEVER asked anyone to do!

The reason why you have no answers to the simple questions I offered you is because you see a MARKET activity at the WORSHIP center - whereas God did NOT establish any such ideas among His people!! If He did, please Enigma, SHOW the fact clear and simple to your readers!!

Could you kindly do that? Thank you in advance again O!

Some basic principles of interpretation:

1. A word has a basic meaning; nevertheless the full meaning of a word is realised from its context.

Example the word "cleave"; those who don't already know might check its meanings and realise that it has two completely opposite meanings; thus, to know which meaning is intended you look at the context.

Same principle applies to "bestow"; any unprejudiced person who reads the word in the context that it is used will realise that in that particular context it means "spend" or "use to buy" ---- which is why several Bible translations translate accordingly. This applies even to the word used in the original text --- it is to be read in context in the original and even in that context it meant "spend" or "use to buy" or equivalent.

2. A word's meaning also depends on the syntactic pattern it evinces: e.g. "bestow" will have a different meaning from "bestow upon"; both "bestow" and "bestow upon" have different meanings from "bestow for".

Again anyone reading carefully and without prejudice can see that in the context of "bestow money for wine etc", the meaning is "spend money to buy wine etc"


Very very simple ----- to those willing to read out of the Bible rather than into it.


Question (repeated from my last post):

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Enigma,

The OT was written in Hebrew.

Hebrew is a well developed language that clearly has three DIFFERENT words for:

[list]
[li]"BUY" -- [קנה - qânâh][/li]

[li]"SPEND" -- [שׁקל - shâqal]; and -
[/li]

[li]"BESTOW" -- [נתן - nâthan].[/li]
[/list]

. . . and dear Enigma, they are NOT the same thing at all!!!

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

Thank you.

Enigma:

Some basic principles of interpretation:

1. A word has a basic meaning; nevertheless the full meaning of a word is realised from its context.

Example the word "cleave"; those who don't already know might check its meanings and realise that it has two completely opposite meanings; thus, to know which meaning is intended you look at the context.

I clearly have offered that principle to show that a word may have different meanings in context:

        (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-72266.32.html#msg1410500)

Enigma:

Same principle applies to "bestow"; any unprejudiced person who reads the word in the context that it is used will realise that in that particular context it means "spend" or "use to buy" ---- which is why several Bible translations translate accordingly. This applies even to the word used in the original text --- it is to be read in context in the original and even in that context it meant "spend" or "use to buy" or equivalent.

The OT was translated from HEBREW to other languages; not from English to English.

If a proper context can be derived, please tell your readers which Hebrew word was used in Deut. 14:26. Thank you.

Enigma:

2. A word's meaning also depends on the syntactic pattern it evinces: e.g. "bestow" will have a different meaning from "bestow upon"; both "bestow" and "bestow upon" have different meanings from "bestow for".

Again anyone reading carefully and without prejudice can see that in the context of "bestow money for wine etc", the meaning is "spend money to buy wine etc"

Any biased reader is forcing the idea of "spend" into that text (eisegesis) - whether from the original language (Hebrew) or its contextual rendering in English.

That is why up until now you have not been able to find the verses for the MERCHANTS and TRADERS who BOUGHT and SOLD at the WORSHIP center!!

Take care of your bias, and your problem will be solved.

Enigma:

Very very simple ----- to those willing to read out of the Bible rather than into it.

You've been reading INTO that text words which are simply NOT there!

Enigma:

Question (repeated from my last post):

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Could you be so kind to stop dribbling around and offer answers to the simple questions I presented?

Here again:

I want you to do me the following:

(a) please find me a verse - any verse - that stipulates there that God had established a
MARKET center at "the place which the LORD thy God shall choose" (Deut. 14:25, since
you've a problem with the term "designated place");

(b) please find me the verses that clearly show us who were the SELLERS, the TRADERS,
the MERCHANT men, the TYCOONS, the MONEY CHANGERS, the ENTERPRENEURS, and
the RETAILERS who sold tithes to these tithers. Just who were these traders?
(and please proffer such a text in your feedback)

(c) if the concept of a MARKET system was ordained by God Himself at the center -
("the place which the LORD thy God shall choose" - for ANY reason at all during worship,
why then did Jesus show such aversion to that idea in John 2:15 & 16?

(d) does it make any sense at all to you that tithes were "bought" and "sold"?
What was the idea behind "selling" one's tithes and using your "tithes" (in the form of money)
to buy other people's "tithes"?

And when you are done with that, this simple one as well:


Hebrew is a well developed language that clearly has three DIFFERENT words for:

[list]
[li]"BUY" -- [קנה - qânâh][/li]

[li]"SPEND" -- [שׁקל - shâqal]; and -
[/li]

[li]"BESTOW" -- [נתן - nâthan].[/li]
[/list]

. . . and dear Enigma, they are NOT the same thing at all!!!

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?


Thank you again.

Enigma,

Please don't evade the question. I'm really concerned that you have been evading the questions being offered you. So please, be a gentleman and address them:

. . . . .

The OT was written in Hebrew. Hebrew is a well developed language that clearly has three DIFFERENT words for:

[list]
[li]"BUY" -- [קנה - qânâh][/li]


[li]"SPEND" -- [שׁקל - shâqal]; and -
[/li]


[li]"BESTOW" -- [נתן - nâthan].[/li]
[/list]

. . . and dear Enigma, they are NOT the same thing at all!!!

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

Oga, I thank you yet again.

The only answer I will give you to that question is with a question:

Do you know better than all the Bible compilers/translators who rendered "bestow" as being equal to "spend" or "use to buy" - even granted that people do have preferred versions/translations? Again I quote the translations below from BLB with some added occasional emphases.


Deut. 14:26
KJV
And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

NKJV "And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household.

NLT - When you arrive, use the money to buy anything you want-an ox, a sheep, some wine, or beer. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household.

NIV - Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

ESV - “and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

NASB - "You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

RSV - and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

ASV - and thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thy soul desireth, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul asketh of thee; and thou shalt eat there before Jehovah thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thy household.

Young - and thou hast given the money for any thing which thy soul desireth, for oxen, and for sheep, and for wine, and for strong drink, and for any thing which thy soul asketh, and thou hast eaten there before Jehovah thy God, and thou hast rejoiced, thou and thy house.

Darby - and thou shalt give the money for whatever thy soul desireth, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatever thy soul asketh of thee; and thou shalt eat there before Jehovah thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thy house.

Webster - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatever thy soul desireth, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thy household.

HNV - and you shall bestow the money for whatever your soul desires, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatever your soul asks of you; and you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household.


Question repeated:

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Enigma,

You cleverly dodged the question. Applause! But I will answer yours and then offer you the same question yet again.

Enigma:

The only answer I will give you to that question is with a question:

Do you know better than all the Bible compilers/translators who rendered "bestow" as being equal to "spend" or use to buy - even granted that people do have preferred versions/translations?

I do not know better than ALL the Bible translators; but I do know that we can check on ANY word we are not sure of, so that we can see the meaning of what God was saying in any particular verse.

[list]
[li]That is why I offered you the three distinct words in Hebrew to show that they are NOT the same thing.[/li][/list]

[list]
[li]That is why I illustrated that ANGEL and EAGLE are NOT the same thing, and NKJV and KJV are wrong on Rev. 8:13![/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]That is why we know that there is a DIFFERENCE between HELL and HADES and GEHENNA, and the KJV and NKJV in many instances mixed them up![/li][/list]

[list]
[li]That is WHY I asked you to consult your study tools; but have refused to do so and see where your problem is coming from![/li]
[/list]

Until you simply take the challenge to check things out for yourself, your problems will remain - and you will forever find it difficult seeking answers to the verses that enunciate the TRADERS who bought and sold at the worship center! When you find those TRADERS, please let me know, instead of dribbling round it with excuses.

Enigma:

Question repeated:

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Before you "repeat" any question to me, be a gentleman and answer those I offered you REPEATEDLY!

I will come to verse 23 of Deut. 14.

But before then, please answer the question I offered you on verse 26 of that chapter:


The OT was written in Hebrew. Hebrew is a well developed language that clearly has three DIFFERENT words for:

[list]
[li]"BUY" -- [קנה - qânâh][/li]


[li]"SPEND" -- [שׁקל - shâqal]; and -
[/li]


[li]"BESTOW" -- [נתן - nâthan].[/li]
[/list]

. . . and dear Enigma, they are NOT the same thing at all!!!

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?



I've been answering ALL your questions from the onset. Please be cordial enough to do likewise when offered questions. It is UNDIGNIFIED to evade questions and pretend you have something to offer. Please "desist" (quoting TV01)

Can you please attend simply and straighforwardly to MY questions?

I thank you yet again.

Again I will answer the question with more questions:

Did all the translators/compilers of the Bible not know the differences between the different Hebrew words? Why did they choose to translate the Hebrew word translated by the KJV as "bestow" as "spend" or "use to buy"?

Edited

BTW
Repeated Question:

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Enigma,

Please leave this childish games to kids - they don't accentuate maturity at all.

Enigma:

Again I will answer the question with more questions

That should rather be: "Again I will answer the question with REPEATED questions" - which would mean you have nothing fresh to offer.

Besides, do I take it that you deliberately do NOT want to see the truth in that verse?

There's really no need to play games. If you don't want to offer answers, kindly say so.

If you could and are willing, then please waste no more time and do so simply.

I consider it a hilarious display of desperation to keep marking time on just one issue and not being open enough to maturely consider the issues being presented thereto.

Enigma:

Did all the translators/compilers of the Bible not know the differences between the different Hebrew words?

I don't know if they ALL knew; but we know certainly that some have interposed thei own biases into the text. At least, the repeated case of Rev. 8:13 in the KJV and NKJV are ready examples I pointed out; so also is the translators' rendering of the words HELL instead of HADES and GEHENNA in the various places where they are supposed to have been so translated.

We also know that some spurious "translations" have been in circulation as well - talk about the JW New World Translations, and no student of Scripture will tell you they are willing to embrace that (unless they wish to propagate the tomes of errors it contains)!

So, when you use ANY translation and want to know and understand issues, please use a Bible study tool and language lexicons to clarify issues - and that is precisely what I have done again and again! In that regard, I most certainly KNOW that the NKJV, ESV, NASB, RSV - and even the Amplified all got it wrong on that verse.

HOW do I know this?

I'm not being arrogant, but I have offered repeatedly that the Hebrew word used in Deut. 14:26 is NOT the one we translate as "spend" - because there's a DIFFERENT Hebrew word for that!!

Enigma:

Why did they choose to translate the Hebrew word translated by the KJV as "bestow" as "spend" or "use to buy"?[/b]

Lol, Enigma. . . please stop the games - this is being too childish! 

1. I first offered you the difference in the words: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-72266.32.html#msg1410577)

2. Then I asked you that same question you have turned round to present as your own:

pilgrim.1:

## Question: WHY have the NLT and NIV translators used the word "buy" [קנה - qânâh] instead of an appropriate word like "bestow" [נתן - nâthan] in Deuteronomy 14:26? Are the Hebrew words nâthan [נתן] and qânâh [קנה] the same thing, Enigma?

What are you playing at, Enigma? You have ceased offering answers - and then you pretend to be saying something when in fact you've been evading questions? What's up with the games you're trying to introduce?

Besides, have I not clearly demonstrated the difference between the wordings, Enigma?

I only asked you to please tell readers which Hebrew word was used in Deuteronomy 14:26 -- and up until now, YOU have refused to offer a simple answer to that question!



Now, let me understand something: are you going to discuss or you now want to make a switch over to playing games?

Just a simple answer will do, thank you. 

Enigma:

BTW
Repeated Question:

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?

"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Please could you be kind enough to offer answers to the few I left you before you "repeat" your questions?

Then I can address your "repeated" question. Cheers. 

You may say that

the NKJV, ESV, NASB, RSV - and even the Amplified all got it wrong on that verse.

I and many people know that they were right to translate the word in the original, rendered "bestow" by the KJV, as "spend" or "use to buy". We also know that even in using "bestow" the compilers of the KJV meant "spend" or "use to buy". We also know that the original Hebrew word in the context of the passage meant to "spend" or "use to buy".

I am going to repeat my question: the reason I'm doing that is simple; the viewpoints on the meaning of "bestow" in that context (yours and mine) have been put on these pages. Let the readers go and think about it and come to their own conclusions - whatever the conclusions might be. So I've got lots more questions for those who preach/teach "tithing" for today's Christians --- and so here is one of them below.

Question:

Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Enigma:

I and many people know that they were right to translate the word in the original, rendered "bestow" by the KJV, as "spend" or "use to buy". We also know that even in using "bestow" the compilers of the KJV meant "spend" or "use to buy". We also know that the original Hebrew word in the context of the passage meant to "spend" or "use to buy".

For those of you who think you know, why is it taking you forever to answer the ONE simple question I asked you? Here again (please don't evade the question):

The OT was written in Hebrew. Hebrew is a well developed language that clearly has three DIFFERENT words for:

[list]
[li]"BUY" -- [קנה - qânâh][/li]


[li]"SPEND" -- [שׁקל - shâqal]; and -
[/li]


[li]"BESTOW" -- [נתן - nâthan].[/li]
[/list]

. . . and dear Enigma, they are NOT the same thing at all!!!

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

Please don't miss the question; so I'll ask it again:

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

Enigma:

I am going to repeat my question: the reason I'm doing that is simple; the viewpoints on the meaning of "bestow" in that context (yours and mine) have been put on these pages. Let the readers go and think about it and come to their own conclusions - whatever the conclusions might be. So I've got lots more questions for those who preach/teach "tithing" for today's Christians --- and so here is one of them below.

Isn't it hilarious indeed that those who oppose tithes NEVER answer questions offered them? But because opposers of tithe have NO ANSWERS, it really shouldn't surprise anyone that they have tomes of questions, but have NOTHING to offer for the simple questions asked them.

I've already noted this before:

On the other hand, folks who assume (like you) to know it all for more than 2000 years have yet NOT been able to answer simple questions, even though every single question you offered were well addressed using nothing other than the Bible!

Could you be gentlemanly to offer answers to MY questions so we can move forward, seeing I've been cordial in answering EVERY SINGLE question you offered until recently when I asked you address a few of mine?

In hindsight, I knew you'd sooner be playing this game (wonder why it took you this long). So, if I'm not mistaken, I would like to read your answers to my questions so we can move forward.

Enigma,

Can you please be honest FOR ONCE and tell your readers WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words below was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?

Here:


The OT was written in Hebrew. Hebrew is a well developed language that clearly has three DIFFERENT words for:


[list]
[li]"BUY" -- [קנה - qânâh][/li][/list]


[list]
[li]"SPEND" -- [שׁקל - shâqal] [/li][/list]


[list]
[li]"BESTOW" -- [נתן - nâthan].[/li][/list]

WHICH of the Hebrew words from the three words above was used in Deuteronomy 14:26?!?

I do not care in the least whether or not you think I'm a gentleman. I do not care in the least whether or not you think I'm honest. I do not care in the least anything you think about me. Indeed you might have noticed that I have consistently ignored all the snide or otherwise personal remarks you have been making - as well as other irrelevances.

I will continue to pursue my contributions to this thread in the way I choose; it is your prerogative how you pursue your contributions. In any event, I have dealt with your questions through my questions and those with good comprehension would have seen the answers clearly in my questions.

If I ask a question and you do not wish to answer it, that is entirely fine by me; the question will be there in public for followers of the thread to consider. It will serve as something to think about whenever again they hear the prevailing modern false teaching on "tithing".


Question repeated (you may choose what you like to do with it):


Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Enigma:

I do not care in the least whether or not you think I'm a gentleman. I do not care in the least whether or not you think I'm honest. I do not care in the least anything you think about me. Indeed you might have noticed that I have consistently ignored all the snide or otherwise personal remarks you have been making - as well as other irrelevances.

I actually do care that the people I discuss with are honest, fair and willing to dialogue.

If I did not find snide remarks in yours, you won't read them from mine, thank you.

Enigma:

I will continue to pursue my contributions to this thread in the way I choose; it is your prerogative how you pursue your contributions. In any event, I have dealt with your questions through my questions and those with good comprehension would have seen the answers clearly in my questions.

I appreciate anyhow you so choose to deal with issues - as long as you offer answers. Evading questions by asking questions is hardly offering any answers.

Enigma:

If I ask a question and you do not wish to answer it, that is entirely fine by me; the question will be there in public for followers of the thread to consider. It will serve as something to think about whenever again they hear the prevailing modern false teaching on "tithing".

Why has it been an enormous task for you to simply offer answers to questions?

I'm least interested in your adverts or clamour for public sympathy. The one thing I humbly ask is that we be honest in dealing with issues.

How is it that you never complained at any time you offered questions and I addressed every single one of them? And now I simply requested an answer - and all I get is the games that I've appealed that we throw out of this thread?

Isn't it funny that those who oppose TITHES have again and again accused others of peddling "false" teaching; and yet, you guys are the least interested in dialogue and fairness in answering questions that are offered you? What is so difficult in the simple questions I have asked?

Enigma:

Question repeated (you may choose what you like to do with it):


Are modern tithers today allowed to personally eat (or otherwise) personally keep and use their tithes and, if not, why not - considering what Deut. 14:23 says as quoted below?


"And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

You can play this game till thy kingdom come. I've asked that you address verse 26 before scooting away to verse 23. Too difficult and embarrassing for you?