casualobserver:


The question you should ask yourself is Spoiler for who? Who benefits?

I perhaps should remind you of the deal that kept Lagos intact and became the springboard for Tinubu. Who benefitted when PDP swept SW, why wasn’t Lagos swept along?

Agbegbaorogboye:

OBJ benefited when PDP swept SW.
Lagos wasn't swept cause of the corruption in the party in Lagos which ultimately led to the demise.
What's your point

casualobserver:

Average minds see what is visible to all, great minds see what others do not see. It is regrettable that even in a history lesson (I.e past events) you still can’t see the big picture. Considering events already played out, a great mind is not required to see the big picture.

In any good deal there are at least 2 beneficiaries. The deal between Atiku and Tinubu ( this is well documented) was to leave Lagos alone. Obasanjo and Atiku benefitted yes that’s the obvious one even a blind man can see but it destroyed AD in the SW leaving Tinubu as the last man standing with the resources of Lagos. This (elimination of the old guard in the SW) is what made him The Godfather in the SW and the man who called the shots. Almost everybody who became governor in the SW needed Tinubu’s support and endorsement to become governor, including Fayose a PDP man. Without that Tinubu (who was at loggerheads with the old guard) and other SW politicians may probably still be answering to the likes of Adebanjo, Falae, late Olanihun Ajayi etc. They become demystified and today they have become irrelevant.

Captainsure:
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/11/pdp-crisis-were-now-integrity-group-wike-allies/amp/

Agbegbaorogboye:

Very interesting analysis.

What deal was that? Where can I access the document? Why don't you find out why Bode George was eventually jailed by OBJ's govt? Atiku can claim many things. One thing is PDP cleared SW majorly due to tribal affiliation with OBJ not any Atiku. Quote me anywhere!! OBJ seeing that the North was drifting away from him quickly fell back to the SW for support.
The SW accepted him due to being a son of the soil and a sitting president.
Which governor came thru Tinubu's support in 2003? Care to mention their names? I'm interested in knowing when Fayose sought Tinubu's support to become governor. Was it in 2003 or 2014?
I think you should put the myth of Tinubu calling the shorts in SW politics to the test.
2003. He was the last man standing. By 2007 his AD only retained Lagos. PDP retained all the other states. AD reclaimed Osun through the courts. In 2011, APC won 4 out of the 6 states while the LP who actually leaned towards PDP won in Ondo in 2012.
So I don't know what you mean by Tinubu became godfather of SW politics. Immediately after winning the ticket of APC, he led APC to lose in Osun as well.

Agbegbaorogboye:

Funny enough it's a warped definition of integrity

casualobserver:


You know there is a difference between someone who just wants to argue or someone interested in debating facts. There was a deal to support OBJ as a yoruba son but there was a deal between Atiku and Tinubu to stay away from Lagos. This is well documented. Atiku is on record as saying he regrets he did. You seem to forget that the alliance between Tinubu and Atiku started under yaradua in the early 1990s. As for Osun, now it is clear you are being pedantic. You clearly don’t know your SW political history very well!!!

Agbegbaorogboye:

Where's the fact in that your post. I already pointed you to how Bode George mismanaged PDP in Lagos. Go and find out more about it. Let me give you more. In Oyo, OBJ relied on Pa Adedibu to form an alliance to oust Adesina. Ogun was OBJ's home state. Ondo and Osun were won through fielding ex-military officers.
So all these talk of Atiku is just speculation. Atiku can say whatever he likes. I was not a kid in 2003 so I can boldly tell you Atiku did not feature prominently as a factor in SW politics then. OBJ gave series of interviews in Yoruba language at so many local radio and TV stations then which further connected him with the electorate. If Atiku did anything, it might have been to snitch on Lagos PDP to Tinubu which weakened them. But to claim he won the remaining five states for PDP is a big fat lie!!
I'm not a kid in SW politics that's why I'm giving you facts.

casualobserver:


You are straying away From the issues. Some of what you say is true but the origin of this debate is Tinubu, Atiku and Lagos. Tinubu retained Lagos with the help of Atiku. What Atiku did I don’t know, neither do you but even Atiku has said it, even recently that he regrets helping Tinubu.

Agbegbaorogboye:

I agree.
But my point is, Tinubu wouldn't have retained Lagos if Bode George had done the assignment given to him by OBJ as he was expected regardless of Atiku's helping Tinubu.

asobo1:
Nonsense integrity group.

1. When PDP zoned it's chairmanship position to the south, it was general agreed that the south west should produce the party's chairman. For political pundits like myself, we will recall that Chief Bode George and Phar. Jimi Agbaje were the two prominent contenders from the SW but party faithfuls were more favourable to the candidacy of Phar. Jimi Agbaje because the saw him as a breath of fresh air to day party after a turbulent period courtesy of Wike and Fayose who brought Sen. Ali Modu Sheriff but it was surprise to everyone that Wike opted for his Prince Uche Secondus who also happens to be from Rivers but the sake of peace, everyone allowed it to slide.

2. After the 2019 elections, in preparation for the principal officers elections in the house of representatives, Wike opted for Hon. Chida who happens to come from Rivers state just like the national chairman as at that time. But the PDP house of representatives caucus voted for Hon. Elumelu. People who have been following events in the PDP saw how Wike called people unprintable names but the party stood by the decision of the PDP house of representatives caucus.

Above are just two examples to show how selfish and callous Wike is. Wike was one of the reasons why Peter Obi left PDP but now he is a fan of Obidients.

Wike and Ortom brought Sen. Ayu but because of his short circuit memory, he forgot that Ayu was Atiku's campaign DG in 2007.

Wike now have the gods to question his fellow PDP south south governor colleagues of how the put into use money for their state. All because they are all men of steel unlike the senile beings following him up and down all in the name of G-5 nonsense.

They wanted to win Sen. Bala Mohammed to their side but he isn't a hungry man like the senile beings following him up and down

To hell with Bar. Wike, PDP at the national has long moved on except for your minority stooge who can't do anything.

casualobserver:


Bottom line is he did. Who knows maybe the issues with Bide George were part of how Atiku distracted Lagos PDP, I don’t know the bottom
line (if we can go back to the origin of this discussion) is that, what may look like being a spoiler is the only play and the right play for Wike and may actually turn out to be a strategic move or the emergence of a new order where you catapult yourself to the top of the food chain. Like they say you need to break eggs to make an omelette. Sometimes you dont even know the outcome, sometimes you just know that if you don’t present a show of force and show the world you are not a walkover, you are finished. Sometimes you take a stand and see where the chips fall because like I said to take a stand like he has and cave in will he his end politically. It’s like the mafia, once a move is made on you, justified or not, you have to make a counter-move, you either die or you emerge stronger. There is no halfway, any peace move is only temporary while one side restratigizes on how to eliminate the other!

so yes a Wike who is leaving office no matter what he may say about peace talks still open, has no other move but to be a spoiler and crush those forces in PDP trying to make him permanently irrelevant, even if it means sacrificing a PDP presidency. To not do so as an outgoing governor is to make himself permanently irrelevant. The other side also can’t afford to cave in to Wike for the same reason.

It’s a kind of similar thing that happened with Amosun in Abeokuta, if you are challenged from within, you either win or you become irrelevant. Now he can’t even get a senate seat and is resorting to playing the comedian and boy boy at the primaries to curry favour and relevance with Tinubu. So if you must lose you go down fighting, all guns blazing.

Agbegbaorogboye:

Since you are talking bottom line. Has Atiku won any election since then?
There you have it. Spoilers don't win. That's my initial point and it remains. Fighting for relevance is not same as being a spoiler.
In politics, you can negotiate to stay relevant. Not everything is fight. Let me tell you three clear example were Atiku has played spoiler that he's still battling with today.
In 2007, he played spoiler against OBJ. In 2011 and 2014, he played spoiler against GEJ. Both incidents still hang on his neck.
A better move for Wike would have been to decamp to another party, or at the very least, get some strong concessions from PDP.
As you rightly said, he and his group want to retain control of the party with an eye for 2027 and they don't mind weakening it now to achieve that.
But how exactly will a weak PDP be useful to them against a sitting president (especially if it's APC) in 2027. Does Wike have the political strength to resurrect PDP and make it a formidable force in 2027? How will he convince the core North, that bringing down their son was the right thing?
So you see, being a spoiler is a different thing from being relevant or being a winner.
The fact is, even now, they are not relevant in PDP. The leverage they have is the election season approaching.
If not, all this noise won't even move a needle.
So how will they now be relevant post-2023? They don't have the numbers obviously. The money Wike used to employ as a weapon to get people to his side will no longer be there by 2023. So how exactly is he going to be relevant?

casualobserver:


First of all I never gave Atiku as an example of being a spoiler, the example I gave was Tinubu.

As for Atiku, he has never been a strategic human being, he has never shown he has the mental capacity for strategic thinking. The fact that Obasanjo said he relies on marabouts and money to get ahead is an indication of how he makes decisions. Atiku has always been a loser right from his days at PDM under Yaradua. I would never been as stupid as to give Atiku as an example of strategic power play because the man is incapable of strategic thinking and is a serial loser!!!

Jones4190:
How to steal a fowl for xmas

1. Survey the area for about 1 week.

2. On the day of operation wear an
oversized shirt.

3. Be at the place between 11am
to 2:30pm. At this time of the day, the owners will be
gone to work or
be indoors. The fowls will be playing
outside happily.

4. Walk at the edge of the street and let the fowls walk freely at the center.

5. This is where u make the grand move.

6. Dive like a goalkeeper and grab the fowl by the head. Quickly fold the head into the
feathers and put it in side ur oversized shirt.

7. Move on as if nothing happend. No looking back. THANK_ME_LATER

oyeb15:


I want Makinde to lose second term for being so foolish by following Wike

Agbegbaorogboye:

Tinubu spoiler? How? When? Decamping from a party does not make you a spoiler. I don't have any memory of Tinubu playing spoiler. If you do, share.
Correction! Atiku actually won the governorship in 1999. I don't know what you mean by he's been a loser since PDM when he never contested any election under PDM.
He won on the ticket with OBJ in same 1999 as well. So just cause he's on a losing streak does not make him a serial loser. All that's political jibe not based on any fact. Buhari was losing repeatedly too until fortune smiled on him in 2015.
I also don't know what you mean by Atiku not having the mental capacity for strategic thinking. Someone who runs multiple businesses shouldn't be so denigrated. He's a far more successful businessman than even Tinubu.
What has hindered his politics more is his liberal nature coming from a Conservative North. It's the main reason why the North never really warmed up to him coupled with the fact that his battles with OBJ did him much damage as you just alluded to. That's why I said, no spoiler ever wins. It's not only in Nigeria or politics. It's same in every sphere. Spoilers don't win.

asobo1:
See this dunce. Like Obi like follower. It will cost you nothing to verify information before spewing gibberish on public platform.

casualobserver:


Oga, this is Monday start of a new week. I will reply this once and no more.

If Tinubu and Atiku had a deal as claimed then it is clear Tinubu was aware of Obasanjo’s plan. He could have alerted his co travelers in AD but clearly he didn’t. Don’t forget, he was at loggerheads with them anyway. So when I say he played the spoiler, what it means is that he knew what the game plan was but it suited him to have them wiped out and protected himself. When the enemy did his work for him, he merely picked up the pieces with his newly found position as last man standing and became the new leader. This is a similar position Wike finds himself. You have an internal tussle for supremacy or at least attempts to whittle you down, your collective enemy is after your internal enemy, what do you do knowing you have the power to make a difference not just on the fate of your internal enemy but your own future? Play along with your camp and be whittled down or play along with the external enemy and hope he deals a. Knockout blow to your internal enemies so you can pick up the pieces or at least emerge undamaged?

As for Atiku, the man is a serial loser, he is afflicted with the curse of the man who always snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. Examine his political career from 1992. He was a political force in his own right. Serial winners or losers have abnormalities along the way , but it is the overall pattern that determines whether one is a serial loser or winner. Perhaps if Atiku had taken the governorship he rightly won and not traded it for a VP slot, his story wil be different. Don’t forget sardauna could have been prime minister but instead he nominated Balewa for the job and though Balewa was no1 in the country, everybody knew and accepted that Sardauna was the real power certainly as far as northern politics. Perhaps if Atiku has become governor and consolidated his political power as a king maker in the north, his story would be a different one today. Again poor strategic thinking. Yes he became VP but to what avail? He was a bigger political force in the Borth before he became VP, since he became VP his relevance is o Lu dictated by his deep pockets and his ability to spend. Again he has lost out….a serial loser!!! A product of a man lacking a strategic mindset. Another example of Atiku being incapable of strategic thinking was his choice of Obi in 2019. Obi may be popular today but he did t have this level of support in 2019. If you look at the figures, he actually lost SE votes in 2019. A strategic thinker would have selected a VP in 2019 from the SW to damage the APC in the SW, instead he chose a VP from a zone that added nothing to his votes, a zone that would never have voted for your opponent so he had nothing to lose if he didn’t pick a SE VP. The purpose of a VP slot is as leverage to add to your chances of winning by bringing in new votes, not to reward people who have nowhere else’s to go. Atiku does not think right, his political career is littered with evidence of a man who doesn’t think right. Obasanjo is right!!!

As for running businesses , Abeg using position of influence to corner monopoly port concessions, oil blocs etc and then employing experts to run offshoot businesses for you is not being a business man. It is being a rent seeker. A loooter who has cornered unlimited resources and can afford to run businesses at a loss if need be to give cover of legitimacy. Atiku and his like are not a business men, he they are thieves! All those empty luxury flats in Ikoyi are not owned by business men they are owned by thieves!!! No one who works for his money and understands wealth creation and the time value of money will leave properties empty for years. Not everybody that runs a night club is a business man, many are drug dealers laundering illegal funds. So please oba otudekp, innoson, Coscharis, Okoya, Aliko etc etc…these are business men, Atiku is a theif!!!

orion7:
like tinubu like follower. Useless stupid coke head

Agbegbaorogboye:


I don't know where you get these tales from but a lot of what you write are very far from reality.

1. Tinubu was not at loggerheads with the five other governors of AD. Instead, he was at loggerheads with the leadership of AD then. I think you should know the difference between the two. Till today, Tinubu, Osoba and Akande remain very strong and committed friends and there has never been anytime they disagreed politically or otherwise. If you know of such, pls share. So it is absurd to think Tinubu knew of plans to oust them from office and kept it to himself so he can become the lone governor left on the platform. If memory serves me right, the crux of Tinubu's disagreement with Afenifere( the political group that birthed AD then) was that their relationship with OBJ needed to be streamlined, which they felt otherwise about. It had nothing to do with wanting to be the man in charge. I am not a Tinubu fan but I don't think it is right for history to be twisted to paint him as a betrayer or backstabber to people he keeps close friendship with till this day. I don't remember him ever saying he wants to be leader of AD and for your info, AD does not operate like other parties. The chairman is the leader of the party according to the party constitution and not a governor. And your assumed act( though false) of Tinubu does not amount to being a spoiler. Go and read and understand what it means to be a spoiler. A spoiler usually has nothing to gain from playing the role. It's like in football if a team who are already out of a competition play against another team who need a win to progress and beat them. That team will be termed a spoiler since they are already out and they still stopped someone with a chance from making it.

2. If you say serial winners or losers have abnormalities along the way, may I ask what class Buhari falls into? Is he a serial winner or loser? Is two term presidency, is it an "abnormality" or a norm for him considering that overall, he has 3 losses and 2 victories which makes him a -1 loser on aggregate if we go with your logic?
Atiku never traded his governorship for VP slot. He was nominated by OBJ singlehandedly. He never lobbied for it. As a matter of fact, just like Tinubu, the powerbrokers in PDP were expecting OBJ to pick a VP from NW. Aliyu Gusau was the leading name on the list before OBJ opted for Atiku, probably due to the financial assistance he rendered him when he just came out of jail. I wonder if you are presented with a promotion from an office you occupy, you will reject it. Also, it is another lie to claim Atiku was a kingmaker in the North pre-1999. I challenge you to mention who he installed as king anywhere in the North. Pre-1999, the military establishment were firmly in control of the politics of the North led by IBB. They were the ones who decided to cede the Presidency West and also nominated OBJ for presidency. Atiku had nothing to do with that. So these your wild claims of him being a big man in the North who out of greed went for VP instead of governorship he won sounds more like warm bile. Again, you forget that Tinubu wanted to be VP to Atiku in 2007, also wanted to be VP to Buhari in 2015. Was he also strategically poor to have wanted that office too? How many govs, sitting and retired will be offered VP slot and will say No?!!

3. It is a testament to your poor grasp of politics that you think Atiku should have chosen a VP from SW where his party as at 2019 had no sitting governor and ignore SS/SE where his party had 8 out of 11 governors. Would you really do that if you were in his shoes? How does that even begin to make sense? Like really!! This is coupled with the fact that Atiku actually won the South and won massively. His undoing was his margin of loss in the North. If he had won just one of the 3 regions in the North, you will have an Atiku presidency as we speak. Quote me anywhere.

4. It is funny you call Atiku a looter while you defend Wike who has been donating and dashing money around without any known stream of income out of politics, or Tinubu who actually is easily the most corrupt governor and politician who has milked a state the longest since 1999. Atiku has a long line of businesses he can point to whether obtained through corrupt means or not. Can Tinubu match him in that regard? Wike is a nobody in that aspect anyway. It is also funny you want to mention "real" businessmen and you start with Otudeko who was just recently accused by the CBN of looting First Bank to stupor as majority shareholder and whose shares had to be forcefully confiscated. Dude!!

5. I think you need to brush up your knowledge of politics. You are laden with too much emotional outbursts against Atiku I wonder if you have suffered any personal injury against him. You should observe as your moniker implies and learn lessons from their actions and characters like reading a novel and not get yourself emotionally invested in those who don't care about you up to the level of insulting and denigrating people who are actually friends with them unsolicited on their behalf.

tesppidd:
So that is integrity right?

If a man always kills someone if he says he will kill someone or a man always refuse to pay people once he says so, that is integrity right??

Okay.

blesdman:

If u decide to choose that part of him. All I know is that all projects he promised to start and deliver in port Harcourt were successfully done.

tesppidd:
Projects are the best ways to collect your own cut.

That is why job creation for 8 years is zero.

Pensioners crying.

Minimum wage nkor Zero.

Employment for 8 years Zero.
Typical Nigerian hypocrisy. If given opportunity, others may not do anything yet they will still loot. The one that decides to use funds diligently is called a looter. So much for freedom of speech. Smh


No governor or president can steal without doing projects.

That is why projects dey sweet to do especially when you have over 40 billion coming in every month.



Be wise. Stop letting people play you for a fool while clapping that they are doing projects.