mdsocks:


Oh sorry then, guess I left my manners outside before I logged in here. It's tempting to throw tantrums when on nland sometimes(you know ,the ghetto influence of the multitude affects you naturally ). Although I didn't mean it in an offensive way, just meant talking way above the norm...




The guys of course. Because your request/wants were way too many(though you said some were superficial).


Chai ..you even had to go on and re-edit to add more. Tell me are we done yet or should we be expecting another list.

Let me add my own likes.

no problem.you are forgiven.

I wasn't done. I had to post it then because my ba3 was low and didnt want to lose data. If I have anything to add, it wont be on that post.

tpia is a christian but she's been loving it here since God knows when.

tpia@:


1. you of all people know exactly what i'm talking about.

2. I'm sharing what i know about anonymity or the lack thereof, of the internet. Its your call how you want to consider that information.

3. what's there to share?

You have more life experiences and age than me, some people are 14 in human years but 74 in spiritual (ie canny) years, so age is nothing but a number, as they say.

4. so, share with us, we are all here to learn from you.

5.

a. because that's her handle on nl?

b. mdsocks did not ask me a question, or I'm not aware since i did not read that particular post. If you have answers for him, go ahead and post them.

c. tbaba is concerned about it because its part of religion, part of life, and he has been preaching here for long. He tries to cover every aspect.


anything else?

thats my handle on nl? u'r too cynical ma'am.
about d years, are u calling me a winch? hell no. I am a Muslimah to d bones.
dont come here to claim any sweet sixteen. You of all people know u are not

and u answered all my queations. bravo!

Tpia is right about the internet.... I got a message once from a sister on my facebook page. I was wondering how she got that far. She saw a thread on Nairaland and tracked me down. .... It is hardly anonymous.

"THE CHALLENGES OF ISLAMIC DATING IN THE CONTEMPORARY WORLD"

I don't know if there is anything like Islamic dating but muslims do face challenges finding their spouses in the contemporary world. The haram is far easier than the halal option it seems.

There have been some initiatives to close this gap and help muslims find compatible partners in a halal way. These are areas that the muslims in Nigeria have to look into.

i. Internet match-making sites with strict rules: Halfourdeen.com and purematrimony.com represent the best out there at the moment. Users are made to pay a fee so that only those who are serious about marriage join. In addition, you can not just log in and start looking at pictures of sisters.

Building models like this would help match sisters and brothers with similar interests for the purpose of marriage in a halal way.

Not all muslim match making sites are appropriate though. In fact, many are disgraceful.

ii. Network of friends/family: Sometimes, when you are looking for marriage. It is best to let people know. Getting marriage to someone known within your circles means you have good information about them.

The sister would not consider you creepy if they know, you are serious about it and go through the appropriate channels.

1. How easy is it to just walk up to a girl Mother/Sister/relation or other people you want to consider as your Maharam to show your intention of marriage to a particular Hajia in this contemporary world without you been looked as a slowpoke or something else (It is not very common to see people that will fully support your action).

2. What about the Hajia (Girl) involved, there is rarely or no girl in Nigeria that will not see you as a MAD PERSON or PLAYER, for you to just walk up to a girl and said WILL YOU MARRY ME?

3. Hardly will you see girls of nowadays that want somebody to suggest husband for them because they believe, they can always choose the best likewise applicable for guys too.

4. Some people are too shy to discuss with each other in the present of external person; how can will the two person involved really have sound communication in the present of Maharam (if they fall into the category of shy people).

5. Finally, it is the desire of every Muslim guy/lady to have a blissful and peaceful marriage thereby trying to know at least a little bit of somebody they want to spend the rest of their life with before entering into such marriage (I don't think I can just enter into any future engagement with anybody without studying the person a little bit, she doesn't have to be PERFECT but at least have some courtesy of what somebody can called A GOOD WIFE as prescribed by the Qur'an and Hadith).

1. The first point is to inform the girl of your interest. She is the one who would tell her father about your interest, first. If you can't go alone alone, go with members of your family.

2. That is untrue. It depends on your approach. If i ask to see her father , i doubt, if she would consider me unserious or mad.

3. Well, you are the one to make the choice eventually. You can't be forced into it.

4. The external person does not have to be seated on the same table with you guys. You would be given 'relative privacy' to talk about what is important to you.

5. Dating for 5 years does not guarantee a blissful marriage. Allah has given us a model that makes us use our brains instead of been blinded by love or lust in making the most important decision of our lives.

Is your name babat on facebook?

seriously, I wish I know how she did it. your blog maybe?

concerning the courtship, d world is so different right now. it was easy to approach someone's father if you knew him. what if you don't, you'll need sometime for some sweet talking before she'll let you.

I definitely won't give anyone I don't like my father's contact. no one is liked on the first meeting btw.

if only someone who's done this would come forward to share how he did it.

tbaba1234:
5. Dating for 5 years does not guarantee a blissful marriage. Allah has given us a model that makes us use our brains instead of been blinded by love or lust in making the most important decision of our lives.

Just what i needed...

The number 5 does it all for me, like the word use our brains..

^ I didn't have a blog when it happened... I was a bit upset but i was still nice (at least i think i was..). I had to make some adjustments to my security features so that i don't get tracked down again.

What do you mean by 'sweet talk'?

See, if a guy expresses interest in you and you already know this person to an extent. you can easily decide if he fits the bill. If you know people that know him. You can ask relevant questions. What sweet talk again? There will be plenty time for that.

The decision is not final at this stage so i don't think you need any 'sweet talk'.

^ u still sending it?

tbaba1234: ^ I didn't have a blog when it happened... I was a bit upset but i was still nice (at least i think i was..). I had to make some adjustments to my security features so that i don't get tracked down again.

What do you mean by 'sweet talk'?

See, if a guy expresses interest in you and you already know this person to an extent. you can easily decide if he fits the bill. If you know people that know him. You can ask relevant questions. What sweet talk again? There will be plenty time for that.

The decision is not final at this stage so i don't think you need any 'sweet talk'.

the knowing to an extent is d problem. I dont mean sweet talk as in being romantic. I mean trying to convince the lady to give him some consideration. i think that is exactly what peoe spend their time doing before meeting with the parents.

Dyt: ^ u still sending it?

I have had problems with my system regarding burning DVDs but I would definitely send it (Insha Allah).

deols:

the knowing to an extent is d problem. I dont mean sweet talk as in being romantic. I mean trying to convince the lady to give him some consideration. i think that is exactly what peoe spend their time doing before meeting with the parents.

Have a discussion with the sister about it. give her time to think about it and probably do her investigation...

You will have the time to find out more about each other.

tbabab in this world where getting good muslims sisters is an herculean task..though i am not saying we should resort to desperation but seriously you think just leaving her and wait for a response would work...she would think you are unserious or have ego issues and i bet you the answer would be no.

So what do you do? Ever heard where a sister tell you, You don't know 1% about me?

Does that ring a bell

tbaba1234:

I have had problems with my system regarding burning DVDs but I would definitely send it (Insha Allah).

Okie dokie

mdsocks: tbabab in this world where getting good muslims sisters is an herculean task..though i am not saying we should resort to desperation but seriously you think just leaving her and wait for a response would work...she would think you are unserious or have ego issues and i bet you the answer would be no.

So what do you do? Ever heard where a sister tell you, You don't know 1% about me?

Does that ring a bell

That is why you are meeting her mahram to know more.

A 'good' muslim sister should be made to understand why you would rather go through her wali.

No, it doesn't ring a bell...

Where have I been all day?
Anyways someone is learning here

tbaba1234:

That is why you are meeting her mahram to know more.

A 'good' muslim sister should be made to understand why you would rather go through her wali.

No, it doesn't ring a bell...

am not trying to find holes in your presentation but just to also bring up issues that might need thrashing out...

Ok...lets say we met in a school environment like campuses or even an online forum and there's nothing as a mahram or wali in that scenario. How do i get her?

And lets also be realistic(gbogbo eniyan ni oun ti oda n wu) you have more than 5 different guys who are also interested in her ,how do you standout in such aspects and win her atlast...you make conversation or what?

Also whats the definition of your good muslim sister above there?

Although i understand where you are coming from and the message you are trying to pass but if it would work there would still be the getting to know each other part. You might just have or call yours a different name.

deols: Is your name babat on facebook?

seriously, I wish I know how she did it. your blog maybe?

its quite simple though..most users have their id tied to other things or websites...from just googling the usernames you can find the connections.

Or maybe he posted his email or something similar here...the web is very open if you know where to look . So don't celebrate your anonymity yet, your cover might just be blown off soon..lol

here' a challenge..dont like sniffing around but i can atleast get the full names, place of work and past history of 3 usernames. I hope am not going against nairaland privacy rules.

mdsocks: am not trying to find holes in your presentation but just to also bring up issues that might need thrashing out...

Ok...lets say we met in a school environment like campuses or even an online forum and there's nothing as a mahram or wali in that scenario. How do i get her?

If you are ready to marry in school then you would go and meet her wali... I am sure she has a home.

And lets also be realistic(gbogbo eniyan ni oun ti oda n wu) you have more than 5 different guys who are also interested in her ,how do you standout in such aspects and win her atlast...you make conversation or what?

It is not a competition.... That is why you should pray isthikara before proposing marriage to anyone if she is meant for you. It would happen. If she says, she is not interested , you let her be and move on.

Also whats the definition of your good muslim sister above there?

Although i understand where you are coming from and the message you are trying to pass but if it would work there would still be the getting to know each other part. You might just have or call yours a different name.

A sister that understands the limits set by Allah and wants to stick to it.

The 'getting to know each other' part is with the knowledge of the girl's wali (guardian).

deols:

thats my handle on nl? u'r too cynical ma'am.

it was just an indirect way of humming bobby benson's "taxi driver" lyrics which were on my mind at the time. Dont read too much into it.

however, if there's a reason why i need to be involved in yall's personal lives, let me know.

you fellows have been announcing this marriage thing for a while now, did someone mention my name as the reason for yall's marriage? Or did someone say they were getting married to/because of me, because i really cant put anything past you folks.

about d years, are u calling me a winch? hell no. I am a Muslimah to d bones.

personally, imo, i feel you're whatever you say you want to be, whether pagan, buddhist or whatever. Once again, explain in detail how i need to get involved in your matter ie how e take concern me.

as per age, yes, you have a vast store of experience which beats mine hands down, so i'm a learner, waiting to learn from you because you can surely teach me a few tricks.

the 14 in human years being actually 74 spirit [canny] years when it comes to some people, is a fact. Thats why when someone trumpets their supposed "youthfulness", its better to go by their "cannying" age, not just their professed one.

dont come here to claim any sweet sixteen. You of all people know u are not

where did i, or have i ever, done that?

sounds s.tupid, good lord. Seems you're projecting on me, God forbid.

and u answered all my queations. bravo!

you're obviously giddy with something, not sure what it is.

mdsocks: it's kinda off topic...but please is tpia muslim??


I see her posts frequently here and just wondering..

no, i'm not muslim.


i'm christian.

i've been here often because unfortunately (?) [for us christians], this section is better managed than the christian one.

and besides, some of the topics are just interesting.

i post everywhere like that, no real base i stick to.

tpia@:


it was just an indirect way of humming bobby benson's "taxi driver" lyrics which were on my mind at the time. Dont read too much into it.

however, if there's a reason why i need to be involved in yall's personal lives, let me know.

you fellows have been announcing this marriage thing for a while now, did someone mention my name as the reason for yall's marriage? Or did someone say they were getting married to/because of me, because i really cant put anything past you folks.






personally, imo, i feel you're whatever you say you want to be, whether pagan, buddhist or whatever. Once again, explain in detail how i need to get involved in your matter ie how e take concern me.

as per age, yes, you have a vast store of experience which beats mine hands down, so i'm a learner, waiting to learn from you because you can surely teach me a few tricks.

the 14 in human years being actually 74 spirit [canny] years when it comes to some people, is a fact. Thats why when someone trumpets their supposed "youthfulness", its better to go by their "cannying" age, not just their professed one.




where did i, or have i ever, done that?

sounds s.tupid, good lord. Seems you're projecting on me, God forbid.





you're obviously giddy with something, not sure what it is.

I over estimate you. need I say more?

mdsocks: its quite simple though..most users have their id tied to other things or websites...from just googling the usernames you can find the connections.

Or maybe he posted his email or something similar here...the web is very open if you know where to look . So don't celebrate your anonymity yet, your cover might just be blown off soon..lol

here' a challenge..dont like sniffing around but i can atleast get the full names, place of work and past history of 3 usernames. I hope am not going against nairaland privacy rules.

I know all you wrote. I just don't want to care.

tbaba1234:

That is why you are meeting her mahram to know more.

A 'good' muslim sister should be made to understand why you would rather go through her wali.

No, it doesn't ring a bell...

How should a sister do it if she likes a brother

REALLY...REALLY... REALLY... We had a lot of debates here yesterday and if there is anything i learnt, it is that People are all different. People have different views or take on every possible issue ranging from broad topics like religion to simple words in the dictionary. No matter how related we r either in faith,matrimony,blood,we just cant agree on every issue life presents us with. Even the fact that at times, the apple may fall farther from the tree, speaks volume of this.
Take a better look at this, islam the case study. There are 4 islamic schools of thought. Why not just one school, why should there b 4 schools when we all claim to posses a single Al quran and Ahadith? Why d divisions? Simple, people cant be same. We all have our basis for right or wrong,our environment,upbringing and experience shape and design our judgements.
I consider Islam as a hollow Sphere not a dot. The further u r from the centre, the greater your challenges and predisposure to temptations yet as long as you haven't crossed the circumference, u still remain in the sphere. And while clinging to the centre forever might seem the safest, it definitely has it downside and might not be the best bet overall. But that is for me. To others Islam might be more than a sphere, to some it might be a dot or straight line,u r either within or outside. That is their entitled opinion, and even though i cant buy into their beliefs, i have learnt to respect everyone, even the disbelievers.
Of course you might counter me with "some people have selfish personal desires(manifesting as hypocrisy or extremism)that leads to the differences" but believe me or not personal desires has only a small contribution to our intra religious differences. Taking sample of those bombing churches,police station and killing innocent guys. Not d personal desire of any sane man to kill is it. But ironically, to them they r killing evil men and establishing order, that is their understanding of Islam. They see their union as holy. Hear what they call themselves, they mastered Arabic, offer their daily salat promptly,fast frequently, keep a full beard, and trouser length above their ankles, memorise the noble books all their life yet their committed demonic act and justified their deed and commitment by quoting verses & they wont mind gunning u down if u dare criticize or condemn their belief7 acts.
In a nutshell, people could differ by either a nose or a neck, no two muslims can have the same perspective of islam even with utmost sincerity so these debates have always being there and will always prevail.

deols:

How should a sister do it if she likes a brother

I posted a thread about that a while back

https://www.nairaland.com/1165488/because-khadijah-asked-alternative-path

1) Never initiate something without having a wali or mahram having complete knowledge of what is going on.

This protects you and the potential Mr. Right from ending up in a situation not pleasing to Allah (glorified and exalted be He). You want to go through this process in a halal and dignified manner.

2) Send someone you trust to ask on your behalf, without initially revealing your identity.

This way, you know if the brother is even available before revealing your personal information. One brother mentioned in the survey responses, that it’s great to give a brother a heads up that someone is interested, because if he is talking to another sister already, then he can let the messenger know, and if it doesn’t work out, he can come back and also let her know.
If he is interested, then have your “go between” share who you are, and ask the brother how you and your wali can contact him – but communication should always go back to your wali or mahram.

3) Pray istikharah.

We ask Allah (glorified and exalted be He) to guide us daily every time we say “Ihdina Siratul-Mustaqeem” in Salah, but we are also blessed to have a special du’a just for making decisions.

The reality is that many brothers out there desperately want to get married, but feel there are so many hurdles to overcome to get there.

The first hurdle, is fearing rejection. Women tend to think men always have their act all put together, but they have their own batch of insecurities and fears. It may make things easier for a man to consider you when he already knows you are interested. And if he isn’t, he will be more confident in pursuing the right person for him in the future.

And what about you? Doesn’t this put you on the line to face rejection. Of course it does, but you have two choices. Do nothing, wait and handle the challenges of just waiting, which is fine if this is the path you want to take. Or do something, be pro-active, possibly meet your Mr. Right and handle the challenges of asking.

In every other area of ‘ibahadah, we don’t sit down and wait for it to come. For Hajj we save, for money we work, for knowledge we seek it out. Marriage doesn’t have to be an exception.

Because Khadijah asked, you could too.

usermane: REALLY...REALLY... REALLY... We had a lot of debates here yesterday and if there is anything i learnt, it is that People are all different. People have different views or take on every possible issue ranging from broad topics like religion to simple words in the dictionary. No matter how related we r either in faith,matrimony,blood,we just cant agree on every issue life presents us with. Even the fact that at times, the apple may fall farther from the tree, speaks volume of this.

Take a better look at this, islam the case study. There are 4 islamic schools of thought. Why not just one school, why should there b 4 schools when we all claim to posses a single Al quran and Ahadith? Why d divisions? Simple, people cant be same. We all have our basis for right or wrong,our environment,upbringing and experience shape and design our judgements.

I consider Islam as a hollow Sphere not a dot. The further u r from the centre, the greater your challenges and predisposure to temptations yet as long as you haven't crossed the circumference, u still remain in the sphere. And while clinging to the centre forever might seem the safest, it definitely has it downside and might not be the best bet overall. But that is for me. To others Islam might be more than a sphere, to some it might be a dot or straight line,u r either within or outside. That is their entitled opinion, and even though i cant buy into their beliefs, i have learnt to respect everyone, even the disbelievers.
Of course you might counter me with "some people have selfish personal desires(manifesting as hypocrisy or extremism)that leads to the differences" but believe me or not personal desires has only a small contribution to our intra religious differences. Taking sample of those bombing churches,police station and killing innocent guys. Not d personal desire of any sane man to kill is it. But ironically, to them they r killing evil men and establishing order, that is their understanding of Islam. They see their union as holy. Hear what they call themselves, they mastered Arabic, offer their daily salat promptly,fast frequently, keep a full beard, and trouser length above their ankles, memorise the noble books all their life yet their committed demonic act and justified their deed and commitment by quoting verses & they wont mind gunning u down if u dare criticize or condemn their belief7 acts.
In a nutshell, people could differ by either a nose or a neck, no two muslims can have the same perspective of islam even with utmost sincerity so these debates have always being there and will always prevail.

Difference of opinion is actually a healthy thing in the religion but those opinions are based on knowledge, based on evidences. In the sunnah, we see that the companions varied in their understanding of instruction but not in matters that are absolutely clear.

Fiqh comes in, when things are unclear. For things in the middle. Then we look for evidence to decide the best course of action.

In this case, there are NO differences of opinions. It is clear from the Quran and the sunnah that pre-marital relationships are not allowed. Everything should be geared towards marriage.

The challenge for the muslim community is to find ways to get her youth married within the acceptable limits not trying to disregard what is clear. In that case, it is clear disobedience not a difference of opinion.

As regards, the understanding of violence in Islam. Read through classical religious books and you will find out that the understanding is uniform. There is no difference of opinion amongst classical scholars. Now, if muslims have committed atrocities by manipulating ayat of the Quran for whatever political or religious objective, it does not change the Islamic understanding of violence.

Go through lectures by Islamic scholars in the 70's, you would find that was already a complaint by scholars about the manipulation of religious texts for political gain.

The problem arose from a complete disregard of historical contexts of religious teachings. Disregarding clear religious texts is also as bad.

This is why opinions must be based on knowledge and evidence not what you feel is correct.

tpia@:

i'm christian.

i've been here often because unfortunately (?) [for us christians], this section is better managed than the christian one.

and besides, some of the topics are just interesting.

good for you then...

deols:

I know all you wrote. I just don't want to care.

okay..

deols:

How should a sister do it if she likes a brother

Maybe you follow a cue here....

https://www.nairaland.com/1010219/bennyraz-wanna-meet


@usermane and tbaba1234 ...thumbs up .

Keep it coming please.

I like peeps presenting their arguments without recourse to personal attacks or over zealousness....

@mdsocks, that is so unnecessary.

deols: @mdsocks, that is so unnecessary.

why not??...i was just giving you an alternative to tbaba's post ?

Something that works like magic.

Any harm in helping a fellow muslimah out?

Jazak-Allah Khairan to everybody on this thread that has contributed meaningfully and (we) that are also gaining one or two lesson from it, Almighty Allah will continue to guide us to the right path. I really like the way and manner we are treating this issue; that is the modest of been a good Muslim (explaining in clear terms without abuse or forcing opinion on others).

In my quest since yesterday to really look for ways of tackling the challenges mention, I came across one wonderful article which I will like everyone of us to read carefully and let us reason together about it. I will divide the article into 2 parts for clear understanding and easy reading; Insha Allah the TWO PARTS will be found Interesting.

LET'S TALK ABOUT DATING - PART ONE

The word “dating” has long been a taboo in the Muslim community. From an early age children are reminded that Muslims don’t date and that dating is “haram” (prohibited). I remember receiving these messages as a child from my own parents and as I became a teenager, I had to explain to friends that I couldn’t go out on “dates.” Having a boyfriend was not even an option and even receiving a phone call from a boy to get a homework assignment was met with interrogations from my parents. Like many of the youth today, I continued to abide by my parents rules and just held onto the dream that one day I would get married and everything would be perfect. However, exactly how I was going to get married was not discussed. My mother told me of her arranged marriage to my father and how it all just happened, reassuring me that my husband was “written” for me – “it is all in God’s plans so don’t worry, it will just happen.” I continued to believe in this magical destiny well into my college years. I finally met a young man I was interested in marrying, but I had no idea how to navigate the experience and found myself lost and confused. This type of idealistic thinking leading to confusion and even rebellion continues to be prevalent in our community. Every Muslim is raised with the idea that they will someday get married, but prior to that there can be no interaction with the opposite gender. Well, this makes meeting the person you are “written” for and getting to know him or her for marriage nearly impossible.

Out of a fear of western values that accept pre-marital sex, the Muslim community has become paralyzed when approaching the issue of dating. However, many Muslim youth have abandoned the notion of no dating and have chosen to date behind their parents back instead. Other Muslims have accepted that there is no dating and have completely abstained from interacting with the opposite gender. Yet, others are frustrated at how difficult it is to meet Muslims and instead choose to date and marry a non-Muslim because it’s easier to “get to know” them when so many restrictions are not in place. Today many youth are wandering around, feeling confused and discouraged about how to approach marriage and how to get to know others while simultaneously seeking to maintain their Islamic values. Parents and community leaders have established the boundaries between genders, yet they have not given practical advice. The lack of direction is leaving young people frustrated and susceptible to the western cultural norms all around them.

The Qur’an reminds Muslims to avoid fornication in Surat Al-‘Isra’ “And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Indeed, it is ever an immorality and is evil as a way” (17:32) but it does not give specific instruction on how Muslims should go about finding a spouse. The wisdom we take from this is that our faith identifies the boundaries for us, but it is up to the individual to pave his or her individual path within those parameters. We, as a community, need to reconcile the best way to get to know others for marriage particularly in the times we are living in. Throughout history and the world, most marriages were arranged marriages and only in the past 100 years has the process of getting married changed into what today is called dating. “Dating” in today’s culture has become a frivolous activity with no intention of marriage usually leading to pre-marital sex, but it wasn’t always like this. Throughout history, with the exception of modern times, courtship was seen as a bridge to marriage. In the early 1830’s to 1900’s the U.S. evolved out of arranged marriages and developed the process known today as ”courting.” According to Webster’s dictionary, “courting is to engage in social activities leading to engagement and marriage.” It is a sexually abstinent relationship, with parental involvement, allowing two people to learn about one another for marriage within the context of honor and respect for one another.

According to this definition, courting may be a viable alternative for Muslims who do not want to go the route of an “arranged marriage” nor the route of modern “dating.” Of course, courting sounds completely old fashioned when placed in the current cultural climate. On the other hand, it may even sound too much like “dating” to many in the Muslim community who can only accept arranged marriages or a strictly controlled process. However, Islamic courting may be the natural progression that needs to take place in our community in order for Muslim youth to get married without engaging in frivolous or harmful activities as well as being keenly aware of their Islamic values.

I know there are readers who at this point may be astounded that I am suggesting a less restrictive alternative, but honestly I believe it is time for us to consider options. “Islamic courting” is not an arbitrary activity. It has a purpose – two people taking time to determine compatibility for marriage with the full awareness and support of their parents.

This is where I will stop the PART ONE for now; Part TWO will be posted as soon as possible Insha Allah.

Maa Salam