You are kinda right but using data will always drive points home so it doesn't look like generalization..

This is as at 2021 ...

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/employment/employment-by-occupation/latest/#data-sources

Indians are putting in great work.... and they grow together as a community.. impressive stuff

Advision:


As it is not an immigrant issue, the political parties would rather sweep this one aside.

The average brit has an exceptionally large taste for "living" the good life. Even Ukraine with missiles and bombs raining down on them every week does not have 1 in 5 out of job and not looking for work.

Many of the young ones have a very strong sense of entitlement and no stress....and it's not just about care sector. Check the big4 consulting firms, many of their recruits are immigrants or 2nd, 3rd generation immigrants. [b]Any sector where long gruelling hours or challenging situations arise, many of the young brits will leave the chat room. [/b]The older ones tend to have a different attitude to work, but the younger ones, most businesses will go bankrupt hiring them. That is the inconvenient truth.

I have seen someone who spent several weeks sick and returned to put in a request to travel on holiday. Even when he was working, he always emphasised that he has back pain and so could not work for long hours at his desk even when he was home. He never shows any concern as to how the company manages to pay him even when he is working the bare minimum.

Zahra29:


Answer: The vast majority

Unless the question is how many UK citizens want to work in roles that have a reputation for having difficult working conditions and relatively poor pay, such as care work.

Hmmm... I see.

Customer service advisor, sales advisor roles etc earn around 23k too. Are those jobs easier or commensurate for the pay?

I need you to shed light on that your working condition comment...

Cyberknight:


Yes, if your role for the local authority is on this list: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-and-care-visa-guidance-for-applicants/health-and-care-visa-guidance-accessible and on the national pay scale for the sector.

Thank you.

Zahra29:


No you won't be affected if you were on the health and care visa route before the rule change. You are still able to add your dependants if you switch sponsor and you are not restricted to the NHS.

This was actually quite considerate from the Home office, leaving it as it were. And this really relieved tension especially for families already in the UK.

ehizario2012:


Hmmm... I see.

Customer service advisor, sales advisor roles etc earn around 23k too. Are those jobs easier or commensurate for the pay?

I need you to shed light on that your working condition comment...

Yes these jobs tend to be easier on average.

Working conditions using your customer service advisor example:

More typical/flexible working hours and patterns e.g. 9 - 5 Vs night shifts, long shifts
Work/life balance - potential to work from home
Physical conditions - Much less physically taxing
Psychological conditions/stress/abuse
Workload

profemebee:
You are kinda right but using data will always drive points home so it doesn't look like generalization..

This is as at 2021 ...

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/employment/employment-by-occupation/latest/#data-sources

Indians are putting in great work.... and they grow together as a community.. impressive stuff

One thing about Indians is once one of them finds away into a company they tend to open the doors for their kinds.

Zahra29:


Yes these jobs tend to be easier on average.

Working conditions using your customer service advisor example:

More typical/flexible working hours and patterns e.g. 9 - 5 Vs night shifts, long shifts
Work/life balance - potential to work from home
Physical conditions - Much less physically taxing
Psychological conditions/stress/abuse
Workload

I get your drift, and I don't intend to overflog it. Care jobs might be physically demanding (debatable) but they definitely not more difficult than customer service/sales. The latter involves mental skills including relationship management, negotiation, some manipulation. It's a mentally demanding job, sometimes target driven and the pay should be significantly higher than care, but in a case where care pays more (with extra shifts) people tend to gravitate towards care. I've experienced both, so I know.

Why work in a target driven/pressured sales environment when you can work in care where there's no pressure and even earn more with some guaranteed extra shifts? This discussion is a topic on its own so let me stop here. I've seen care pays more than a good number of jobs here in the UK, it takes real passion and a strong thought for career growth to stick with a more demanding job...

Zahra29:


These are massive and untrue generalisations. Or maybe it depends on where you live and work. It's similar to the generalisations Nigerians make when they attend certain universities and conclude that most Brits don't pursue further education - but if they visited the likes of Imperial, Kings and Warwick they would see a completely different picture.

In Financial Services for example, going through the city of London and canary wharf, most recruits are white Brits. Same applies in Law - ethnic minorities are still massively under represented, especially blacks, and especially in business facing functions versus technical roles, and I've noticed recently that the Chinese/HK are making up a higher proportion of immigrant intake.


Many companies, even the bigger ones, used the previous visa rules to drive wages down and pay less than would be expected for the role. Now that they are forced to pay a minimum £38,700 to sponsor overseas workers, they have chosen to pull those offers and instead recruit from the domestic workforce, because it no longer benefits them financially.

It's not untrue generalisation. As you rightly mentioned, many of the client facing roles are brits dominated. They are typically less stressful than the backend roles, more flexible and there is a big advantage there being local

Backend roles requiring more grit, resilience and spine, the young brits are not much interested

An example - the average pay of train drivers in £60k, some even earning over £100k a year. Yet the train companies can't find enough young recruits to take up the role and the average age of train drivers is 50 years old.

Even if the train companies increase pay by 20%, I can bet you they will still struggle to find young brits willing to take the job.

You would hear them moan about the condition of the job as though those that did it years back had a better condition of service.

Even the junior doctors with average salary of 50K and two recent pay rise have stuck to a demand of 35% pay rise. Their more senior colleagues settled for what the government gave them and have moved on.

It's an inconvenient truth that the political parties would rather sweep under the carpet.

Salary is not the only the motivation to hire immigrants or people with immigrant background. Young brits are spoilt silly. and by immigrant, even people from other european countries tend to display more willingness to do the hard and dirty jobs than brits

Any business that has long and demanding role will go bust if they only can hire brits, I can bet that one

Resurgent2016:


It's not untrue generalisation. As you rightly mentioned, many of the client facing roles are brits dominated. They are typically less stressful than the backend roles, more flexible and there is a big advantage there being local

Backend roles requiring more grit, resilience and spine, the young brits are not much interested

An example - the average pay of train drivers in £60k, some even earning over £100k a year. Yet the train companies can't find enough young recruits to take up the role and the average age of train drivers is 50 years old.

Even if the train companies increase pay by 20%, I can bet you they will still struggle to find young brits willing to take the job.

You would hear them moan about the condition of the job as though those that did it years back had a better condition of service.

Even the junior doctors with average salary of 50K and two recent pay rise have stuck to a demand of 35% pay rise. Their more senior colleagues settled for what the government gave them and have moved on.

It's an inconvenient truth that the political parties would rather sweep under the carpet.

Salary is not the only the motivation to hire immigrants or people with immigrant background. Young brits are spoilt silly. and by immigrant, even people from other european countries tend to display more willingness to do the hard and dirty jobs than brits

Any business that has long and demanding role will go bust if they only can hire brits, I can bet that one

I just like the way your argument is based on stats. Spot on.

Resurgent2016:


It's not untrue generalisation. As you rightly mentioned, many of the client facing roles are brits dominated. They are typically less stressful than the backend roles, more flexible and there is a big advantage there being local

Backend roles requiring more grit, resilience and spine, the young brits are not much interested

An example - the average pay of train drivers in £60k, some even earning over £100k a year. Yet the train companies can't find enough young recruits to take up the role and the average age of train drivers is 50 years old.

Even if the train companies increase pay by 20%, I can bet you they will still struggle to find young brits willing to take the job.

You would hear them moan about the condition of the job as though those that did it years back had a better condition of service.

Even the[b] junior doctors with average salary of 50K[/b] and two recent pay rise have stuck to a demand of 35% pay rise. Their more senior colleagues settled for what the government gave them and have moved on.

It's an inconvenient truth that the political parties would rather sweep under the carpet.

Salary is not the only the motivation to hire immigrants or people with immigrant background. Young brits are spoilt silly. and by immigrant, even people from other european countries tend to display more willingness to do the hard and dirty jobs than brits

Any business that has long and demanding role will go bust if they only can hire brits, I can bet that one

I think junior doctor's starting salary is about £33k in England (F1)
Even when it rises after about 3 years to about £50K, that's not a commensurate salary for a job which often has them working up to 48 hours and beyond a week.

Cyberknight:


I think junior doctor's starting salary is about £33k in England (F1)
Even when it rises after about 3 years to about £50K, that's not a commensurate salary for a job which often has them working up to 48 hours and beyond a week.

For the kind of socialised healthcare the UK is running, I doubt doctors can be very lucrative like in countries with privatised healthcare like the US. Within the UK, they earn much better than many other professions, have a generous pension system and almost guaranteed good career growth. While trying not to down play what they do, I personally dont feel they have that bad a deal by UK standard for a government funded job.

Healthcare alone already takes more than 10% of government budget. The remaining sectors, all of which are critical for the functioning of a proper society share less than 90% and with the way the political parties are making promises to the NHS, other sectors will likely suffer more under the next government.

Zahra29:


No you won't be affected if you were on the health and care visa route before the rule change. You are still able to add your dependants if you switch sponsor and you are not restricted to the NHS.

Thank you

Cyberknight:


£23,200.

Is this for NHS or any care or health assistant job that offers sponsorship?

ehizario2012:


I get your drift, and I don't intend to overflog it. Care jobs might be physically demanding (debatable) but they definitely not more difficult than customer service/sales. The latter involves mental skills including relationship management, negotiation, some manipulation. It's a mentally demanding job, sometimes target driven and the pay should be significantly higher than care, but in a case where care pays more (with extra shifts) people tend to gravitate towards care. I've experienced both, so I know.

Why work in a target driven/pressured sales environment when you can work in care where there's no pressure and even earn more with some guaranteed extra shifts? This discussion is a topic on its own so let me stop here. I've seen care pays more than a good number of jobs here in the UK, it takes real passion and a strong thought for career growth to stick with a more demanding job...

Many customer service jobs, even market research, are soft life jobs. When I was doing my degree, these were the type of jobs we targeted - flexible hours, you get to sit down the whole shift and it was very easy to juggle along side uni work. Maybe you're thinking of Tele or field sales roles which are target driven/commission based and therefore more pressured.

Reality is few Brits would choose a typical care home role (what about dorm care which is another level) over an office or retail based customer advisor role. Theres a reason why care roles are still on the shortage occupation list.

Resurgent2016:


It's not untrue generalisation. As you rightly mentioned, many of the client facing roles are brits dominated. They are typically less stressful than the backend roles, more flexible and there is a big advantage there being local

Backend roles requiring more grit, resilience and spine, the young brits are not much interested


An example - the average pay of train drivers in £60k, some even earning over £100k a year. Yet the train companies can't find enough young recruits to take up the role and the average age of train drivers is 50 years old.

Even if the train companies increase pay by 20%, I can bet you they will still struggle to find young brits willing to take the job.

You would hear them moan about the condition of the job as though those that did it years back had a better condition of service.

Even the junior doctors with average salary of 50K and two recent pay rise have stuck to a demand of 35% pay rise. Their more senior colleagues settled for what the government gave them and have moved on.

It's an inconvenient truth that the political parties would rather sweep under the carpet.

Salary is not the only the motivation to hire immigrants or people with immigrant background. Young brits are spoilt silly. and by immigrant, even people from other european countries tend to display more willingness to do the hard and dirty jobs than brits

Any business that has long and demanding role will go bust if they only can hire brits, I can bet that one

The bolded shows the gaps in your reasoning. Investment banking is just one example of a business facing role and it is 100 times more stressful than being a train driver which is regarded as a low skilled role.

Why would the average Brit graduate choose a low skilled role early on in their career, when they have unlimited opportunities to explore? Would the average Nigerian graduate choose to become a train driver or prison officer in Nigeria or elsewhere if sponsorship and other factors were not an issue?? It's only in the UK/abroad that they consider these types of roles, which is perfectly fine, but does not mean that a graduate Brit is lazy if they are not interested.

And most people agree that junior doctors are right to demand more pay (even if the 35% might be too much) for the highly skilled work that they do. Isn't this the main reason why doctors and nurses are leaving Nigeria in droves - poor pay?
I would much rather junior doctors get paid more than the govt waste the money on the short sighted strategy of recruiting PAs (physician associates) who are not fully medically trained.

Zahra29:


The bolded shows the gaps in your reasoning. Investment banking is just one example of a business facing role and it is 100 times more stressful than being a train driver which is regarded as a low skilled role.

Why would the average Brit graduate choose a low skilled role early on in their career, when they have unlimited opportunities to explore? Would the average Nigerian graduate choose to become a train driver or prison officer in Nigeria or elsewhere if sponsorship and other factors were not an issue?? It's only in the UK/abroad that they consider these types of roles, which is perfectly fine, but does not mean that a graduate Brit is lazy if they are not interested.

And most people agree that junior doctors are right to demand more pay (even if the 35% might be too much) for the highly skilled work that they do. Isn't this the main reason why doctors and nurses are leaving Nigeria in droves - poor pay?
I would much rather junior doctors get paid more than the govt waste the money on the short sighted strategy of recruiting PAs (physician associates) who are not fully medically trained.

It's not even more pay .Salaries are supposed to increase to keep pace with inflation. Everyone else has had some form of uplift .This has not happened with doctors salaries since 2008 as at the time of the beginning of the strikes reducing salaries by 33%. The "uplift" is about 6% . That's why the strikes continue.

Cyberknight:


I think junior doctor's starting salary is about £33k in England (F1)
Even when it rises after about 3 years to about £50K, that's not a commensurate salary for a job which often has them working up to 48 hours and beyond a week.

Exactly. I’d personally never work as a doctor for 33k. Yes, the top end salary is very high as a consultant but only about 25% of doctors become consultants and that’s after a decade or so. Working hours aside, what of the risk to life, and even the emotional distress?

They deserve a lot more than that and anyone saying their demanding more is because of greed needs to try their jobs for a while.

For someone smart enough and hard working enough to be a doctor (as a Brit without immigration restrictions especially), there are much easier ways to earn a consultant’s salary by your 40s.

Cyberknight:


Your points are well made, but I disagree with all of them.

Foreign investment in property in the UK has been largely negative in terms of consequences. Effectively, people in the UK, with its lowish levels of pay and high costs of living, are competing against the middle to upper classes of the whole world to own property in their own country. The only slightly positive effect has been additional government revenue from tax on property related transactions, but in my opinion any benefit is outweighed by the overall negative consequences.

While the government was gorging on Russian and sundry other dodgy origin money, and dashing out residency and citizenship to anyone who rocked up with enough money of any provenance in their pocket to pay, its people were slowly being priced out of their own capital city and other desirable locations. While most people have the impression that its mainly luxury property in upscale postcodes that foreigners are flogging among themselves, that's not the case - they're everywhere, buying up new developments offplan, etc. Oxford, for instance, is full of rich foreign students and it sometimes seems as if all of them buy property before they leave.

Hehe... most of what I said was factual and not opinionated. Landlords have been selling, house prices and rents have hardly 'crashed' as expected but rather rents have shot up. Who would have thought? There are different market groups here. The house being bought by the Russian oligarch in Mayfair would not be in the hands of working class Brit before they bought it and even now if they are seized and sold or 'taxed to the teeth'. Don't forget it was the Russian money that the likes of Chelsea and the Premier league gorged on to generate such huge revenues for the country.

Coming to Oxford, forget the populist talk of 'foreigners taking over our land' because a few Chinese people own a home. People have also insinuated same about me despite my county being over 95% British white. Can you state what ratio of houses in Oxford are foreign owned and how this compares to other UK cities?

This is not saying that there shouldn't be effective taxation. There's already selective taxation in place for second and foriegn owners. All I'm saying is that taxation should consider the far reaching consequences, understand the very complex nature of housing and be progressive.

missjekyll:


Bravo/Brava!!!
Was just about to say this.
Jedisco, do have a gander at this

https://www.standard.co.uk/homesandproperty/property-news/why-so-many-empty-homes-in-london-b1077385.html

Have you ever wondered why most everyday folks think the conservatives historically do a much of managing the economy than Labour despite the latter being the ones who are traditionally keen to tax folks. It is easy to think 'tax them to the teeth' so I can have more. In reality, it works differently.

Your quoted link does a good job of pointing out facts as against populist narratives.

Labour dropped from 45% to 37.5% in the perception polls, Reform is riding the wave but projected to plateau out soon... The tories are kind of giving up. Interesting times... It would be unbelievable if Reform UK threatens labour... Is it a real possibility??

ehizario2012:
Labour dropped from 45% to 37.5% in the perception polls, Reform is riding the wave but projected to plateau out soon... The tories are kind of giving up. Interesting times... It would be unbelievable if Reform UK threatens labour... Is it a real possibility??

No. Labour is too far ahead and there's not enough time before the elections. Postal votes will soon start going in (before the 4th of July) which means that the outcome is already being determined.

They can only hope to win a few seats this time - but that in itself will be an inflection point for British politics - and put pressure on Labour from within.

ehizario2012:


I get your drift, and I don't intend to overflog it. Care jobs might be physically demanding (debatable) but they definitely not more difficult than customer service/sales. The latter involves mental skills including relationship management, negotiation, some manipulation. It's a mentally demanding job, sometimes target driven and the pay should be significantly higher than care, but in a case where care pays more (with extra shifts) people tend to gravitate towards care. I've experienced both, so I know.

Why work in a target driven/pressured sales environment when you can work in care where there's no pressure and even earn more with some guaranteed extra shifts? This discussion is a topic on its own so let me stop here. I've seen care pays more than a good number of jobs here in the UK, it takes real passion and a strong thought for career growth to stick with a more demanding job...

Were you the one that shared some moons ago about your friends going arguing about if construction is better than care job 😂

Resurgent2016:


It's not untrue generalisation. As you rightly mentioned, many of the client facing roles are brits dominated. They are typically less stressful than the backend roles, more flexible and there is a big advantage there being local

Backend roles requiring more grit, resilience and spine, the young brits are not much interested

An example - the average pay of train drivers in £60k, some even earning over £100k a year. Yet the train companies can't find enough young recruits to take up the role and the average age of train drivers is 50 years old.

Even if the train companies increase pay by 20%, I can bet you they will still struggle to find young brits willing to take the job.

You would hear them moan about the condition of the job as though those that did it years back had a better condition of service.

Even the junior doctors with average salary of 50K and two recent pay rise have stuck to a demand of 35% pay rise. Their more senior colleagues settled for what the government gave them and have moved on.

It's an inconvenient truth that the political parties would rather sweep under the carpet.

Salary is not the only the motivation to hire immigrants or people with immigrant background. Young brits are spoilt silly. and by immigrant, even people from other european countries tend to display more willingness to do the hard and dirty jobs than brits

Any business that has long and demanding role will go bust if they only can hire brits, I can bet that one

This is so accurate, the government can go ahead offer the best incentives ever, brits won’t do certain jobs. This is why doors are opened for immigrants to fill in those blanks.

Good day everyone,
I have a question about the incoming election

Is there any penalty for not voting but be on the electoral register

I registered to vote because I needed it to improve my credit score

Are there any penalties for not voting while being on the register.

wowdiva:
Good day everyone,
I have a question about the incoming election

Is there any penalty for not voting but be on the electoral register

I registered to vote because I needed it to improve my credit score

Are there any penalties for not voting while being on the register.

Visa will be revoked and might be sent back home

lavida001:


Were you the one that shared some moons ago about your friends going arguing about if construction is better than care job 😂

Layelaye, nor be me. Wetin concern me with type of job? The best job is any on that would give you right to stay/work, good pay and won't harm your health. Anybody can fill in the gaps...

For those that have holidayed in Albania or Montenegro, which affordable cities and tourist attractions would you suggest please? I would also appreciate some tips on how to make the most of the one-week break and get the best value for my time and money. I really need to take some days off soon and I won't have enough time to start Schengen visa process wahala. Thanks

wowdiva:
Good day everyone,
I have a question about the incoming election

Is there any penalty for not voting but be on the electoral register

I registered to vote because I needed it to improve my credit score

Are there any penalties for not voting while being on the register.

Absolutely no penalty except for perpetuating a kakistocracy.
Voting is not compulsory in the UK.

gmacnoms:
Visa will be revoked and might be sent back home

I would probably put just kidding somewhere in this post.
Wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression now, would we?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/15/rushed-deadline-for-uk-digital-visas-puts-millions-at-risk-of-losing-legal-rights


Please can someone shed more light on this? My BRP actually expires in December 2024

lavida001:


This is so accurate, the government can go ahead offer the best incentives ever, brits won’t do certain jobs. This is why doors are opened for immigrants to fill in those blanks.

And this is the exact reason why a lot of immigrants assume that Brits do not want to work. They are so used to seeing their co-foreigners at these low-level jobs that they’ve assumed that the Brits are lazy and do not want to work or that Brits aren’t doctors, etc. Whereas the Brits are the ones in the top positions, they also own the hospitals or Care homes that hire these Brown doctors or carers, but they always ensure that they prioritize putting in their countrymen as managers, etc. 

Nigerians also see Brits as lazy for leaving work on time or not doing more than their job description. The Brits value work-life balance, whereas Nigerians overvalue working long hours. Like this comment, Nigerians like to dey boast about overworking themselves as if they must suffer before they enjoy.