DaddyCoool:


Articulate but flawed. That's what happens when you try to apply extremely limited human logic to things of God. Where did the someone (devil) come from? Who created him and why is he indestructible?

Devil was not created as devil. He became one. Devil is not indestructible. His time is already prophesied.

Why weren't the robots made with the correction consciousness already installed?

There's a correction consciousness. That's why they hid themselves. They knew something was wrong.

Or, once it was discovered they had gone bad, why not destroy the original two that started everything instead of going to all that trouble?

God cannot be defeated. That's exactly what the corrupter wanted God to do, so that God's original purpose can be defeated. God will prove to the corrupter that He can still fulfil His original purpose without destroying the corrupted robots even though the robots are bad.

Then the ultimate question, why suddenly start building robots at all with all the attendant headahes, when you were doing just fine without them?! WeirdAlien

Why did man suddenly create himself a car when he was already doing just fine with horses?

MindHacker9009:


Constantine and his generals were worshipers of the cult of Sol Invictus which had a strong influence on Roman religious life in the 3rd and early 4th centuries. December 25, the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun", was a significant celebration for the followers of this cult, coinciding with the winter solstice and the rebirth of the sun. There are similarities between the Roman pagan worship of Sol Invictus (Unconquered Son) and Christianity, such as the Sunday mass and the divine celebrations around Christmas.

This was how Constantine's mum discovered that cross of Jesus christ about three hundred years later. According to Christian tradition, the site where Jesus was crucified, Golgotha, had been buried and lost under a pagan temple built by the Romans. This temple was erected under Emperor Hadrian to obscure the memory of Jesus' crucifixion.
Helena ordered the demolition of this pagan temple and began excavations at the site.
During the excavation, three crosses were found. According to the story, these were the crosses used for the crucifixion of Jesus and the two thieves who were crucified alongside him.
After the discovery, the True Cross became an object of great veneration. Portions of the cross were sent to various churches around the empire, while a significant portion was kept in Jerusalem. The event also led to the construction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre by Constantine at the site of the discovery.
This story of the discovery of the True Cross is central to Christian tradition, some historians view the narrative with skepticism, suggesting it may have been influenced by religious enthusiasm or later embellishment. The story has had a significant impact on Christian practice and the spread of Christian relics throughout Europe and the rest of the world.

If you are not a scammer you'll accept these stories of Jesus christ was made up to please those that are not Jews but wanted a way to become part of the Jewish religion so a virgin birth of  man/god was the best invention that those that are naive would believe.

Our man has gone from kuku to totally bonkers. What has any of these to do with what you were asked:

But the important question (which you dodged because you know you're talking nonsense) is, why would Rome let a Christ they invented transcend their own gods? They no longer believed the sun was god, nor Zeus, nor the emperor. Not only that, the emperor was now a lowly sinner headed to hell.
Also, this sinless Christ they invented was not crucified by their enemies but by they themselves! Not only that, all Christ-related stories put their country and leaders in bad light - not a single positive image of Rome in a story they invented! Those Romans must have really suddenly gone bananas😅!

I see you are NOT debating that those closest to Constantine were already Christians BEFORE he said he saw a sign.
You've already been told that non-fundamental aspects of Christianity were modified to accommodate new converts. You don't make people to suddenly change from Sunday to Saturday when Saturday worship was not fundamental to Christianity, neither was the exact birth date of Christ nor even it's celebration at all!

FxMasterz:

Devil was not created as devil. He became one. Devil is not indestructible. His time is already prophesied.


There's a correction consciousness. That's why they hid themselves. They knew something was wrong.


God cannot be defeated. That's exactly what the corrupter wanted God to do, so that God's original purpose can be defeated. God will prove to the corrupter that He can still fulfil His original purpose without destroying the corrupted robots even though the robots are bad.

Why did man suddenly create himself a car when he was already doing just fine with horses?

Your talk is laughable. Why can't omnipotent God simply destroy a devil he created? Who made a law saying He had to wait??
Cars were an improvement over horses of course (laughable). Compare to unchanging God suddenly changing and start creating problem-prone man with attendant wars with a devil he created and can simply destroy!
Told u these things can't be reasoned with man's EXTREMELY limited reasoning

DaddyCoool:

Our man has gone from kuku to totally bonkers. What has any of these to do with what you were asked:

But the important question (which you dodged because you know you're talking nonsense) is, why would Rome let a Christ they invented transcend their own gods? They no longer believed the sun was god, nor Zeus, nor the emperor. Not only that, the emperor was now a lowly sinner headed to hell.
Also, this sinless Christ they invented was not crucified by their enemies but by they themselves! Not only that, all Christ-related stories put their country and leaders in bad light - not a single positive image of Rome in a story they invented! Those Romans must have really suddenly gone bananas😅!

I see you are NOT debating that those closest to Constantine were already Christians BEFORE he said he saw a sign.
You've already been told that non-fundamental aspects of Christianity were modified to accommodate new converts. You don't make people to suddenly change from Sunday to Saturday when Saturday worship was not fundamental to Christianity, neither was the exact birth date of Christ nor even it's celebration at all!

I have given you the answers already but because you are the one that has gone from kuku to totally bonkers and a scammer, that's why you don't make any sense.

MindHacker9009:


I have given you the answers already but because you are the one that has gone from kuku to totally bonkers and a scammer, that's why you don't make any sense.

Funny thing is that you and your ilk don't understand that expecting Christ in history books is like expecting history of British empire to include some obscure preacher in a village in Ogun state, with no money, no high connections, virtually homeless, virtually no following at his death by crucifixion (which was nothing special because it was common in Rome those days).
WHY would a historian of British empire include such a person?? Only his closest eye witnesses would record about him, which was exactly what happened!
You confuse what Christ was in the world THEN to what He is in the world NOW!

DaddyCoool:

Funny thing is that you and your ilk don't understand that expecting Christ in history books is like expecting history of British empire to include some obscure preacher in a village in Ogun state, with no money, no high connections, virtually homeless, virtually no following at his death by crucifixion (which was nothing special because it was common in Rome those days).
WHY would a historian of British empire include such a person?? Only his closest eye witnesses would record about him, which was exactly what happened!
You confuse what Christ was in the world THEN to what He is in the world NOW!

You are the one confused. Christianity was created as a political tool which did not work on the real Jews and was later applied to the Roman empire to unite all their pagan religion under one roof.

DaddyCoool:


Your talk is laughable. Why can't omnipotent God simply destroy a devil he created? Who made a law saying He had to wait??

Yeah, things really can't be reasoned with man's limited reasoning. However some of these things still have logical explanations. When talking to unbelievers, it's not best to tell them things cannot be reasoned with human reasoning. Instead, you offer explanations they can easily relate with.

Logic would not completely answer all the questions but it can provide some basic understanding of things.

Omnipotent God CAN destroy the devil He created. He has DECIDED to do that at a latter time. He has the right to do things according to His decisions. He doesn't owe us an explanation for making such decisions but as a human I believe that God is giving Satan a long rope to pull - giving him all the time to repent. He is still God's creation. God loves all His creations nonetheless and does not want to destroy any.

There's no law saying He has to wait. It's His own personal decision, and you cannot know better than Him.

Cars were an improvement over horses of course (laughable). Compare to unchanging God suddenly changing and start creating problem-prone man with attendant wars with a devil he created and can simply destroy!
Told u these things can't be reasoned with man's EXTREMELY limited reasoning

The same way humans were an improvement on angels. They were created in God's image and had been useful in terms of fellowship and communion with God. First, God wanted fellowship and communion which angels couldn't provide, hence He created man.

Secondly, He created man purposely to humiliate the devil. Without knowing the very purpose for which
God created man, you'll ask irrelevant questions and still consider yourself intelligent.

After Satan rebelled by wanting to overthrow and rule over God, God created this dust in His image and set this dust over the rebellious archangel. This plan of dust ruling over the fallen archangel was what made the devil to attack man and snatch away the dominion. The punishment was to much for him to swallow. He couldn't hear to be so debased. Otherwise, Satan wouldn't have had any business with man. This is the singular reason why Satan hates man so much. Again, you must know the purpose and the reason why Satan hates man for you to understand why he has distributed so much evils in the world.

The wars and all the evils therein are a consequence of man's disobedience for which he must take responsibility. However, God has provided respite in Christ Jesus for those who would overcome the evil one.

If God destroyed Satan, His plan has been defeated. If God destroys the first 2 humans, His plans are defeated as well because in both scenarios, dust cannot rule over Satan as planned. Satan thus gets the victory.

Lucifyre:
Maybe because YHVH was a psychopathic genocidal maniac that had to satisfy his thirst for blood one more time so he couldn't just forgive outright, he had to kill or 'sacrifice' himself to himself to appease himself for rules and circumstances orchestrated by himself. Funny thing is Jesus outrightly forgave people before his death but still had to die for everyone to be forgiven. Hmm! What a clusterfuck of absolute horse shit just like the torah as well.

You are missing the point. Like they say the best form of view is from above. Because from above you get a perfect outlook of things, a complete view not based on lateral perceptions. God made creation, man included; he wanted all of his handwork to dwell with him. Hence the repetitive emphasis across the bible for the gathering of all creation unto him. Irrespective of this zeal(interest) to have his children be with him. he gave them freewill. This freewill creates branches from the will(ideal) of God, some of these branches are fatal. Now a little thought, if God were to be Life and we are living because we have life(physical life) then if this life were to be taken away what becomes of you, dust!. So is the spiritual Life as many as are not joined or dwell with God will not partake of this Life and hence they die. Wisdom dictates that if you give a person free choice then you must have all the solutions to whatsoever decision that the person will choose. Because the more choices people have the worst they become some of these choices become counterintuitive. That solution is the Son(being joined to the son). That's why he is the tree of Life and we are grafted to it. So it doesn't matter what decisions you make as long as you are joined to this Tree😊 that's the point.

FxMasterz:

Yeah, things really can't be reasoned with man's limited reasoning. However some of these things still have logical explanations. When talking to unbelievers, it's not best to tell them things cannot be reasoned with human reasoning. Instead, you offer explanations they can easily relate with.

Logic would not completely answer all the questions but it can provide some basic understanding of things.

Omnipotent God CAN destroy the devil He created. He has DECIDED to do that at a latter time. He has the right to do things according to His decisions. He doesn't owe us an explanation for making such decisions but as a human I believe that God is giving Satan a long rope to pull - giving him all the time to repent. He is still God's creation. God loves all His creations nonetheless and does not want to destroy any.

There's no law saying He has to wait. It's His own personal decision, and you cannot know better than Him.



The same way humans were an improvement on angels. They were created in God's image and had been useful in terms of fellowship and communion with God. First, God wanted fellowship and communion which angels couldn't provide, hence He created man.

Secondly, He created man purposely to humiliate the devil. Without knowing the very purpose for which
God created man, you'll ask irrelevant questions and still consider yourself intelligent.

After Satan rebelled by wanting to overthrow and rule over God, God created this dust in His image and set this dust over the rebellious archangel. This plan of dust ruling over the fallen archangel was what made the devil to attack man and snatch away the dominion. The punishment was to much for him to swallow. He couldn't hear to be so debased. Otherwise, Satan wouldn't have had any business with man. This is the singular reason why Satan hates man so much. Again, you must know the purpose and the reason why Satan hates man for you to understand why he has distributed so much evils in the world.

The wars and all the evils therein are a consequence of man's disobedience for which he must take responsibility. However, God has provided respite in Christ Jesus for those who would overcome the evil one.

If God destroyed Satan, His plan has been defeated. If God destroys the first 2 humans, His plans are defeated as well because in both scenarios, dust cannot rule over Satan as planned. Satan thus gets the victory.

I won't say you're talking nonsense, but I believe it is better tto say that's just how things are than to lie or give ridiculous explanations. Reminds me of the guy who kept insisting there are no inconsistencies in the Bible.

Can you please explain exactly how man rules over Satan and stronger. In what way?? Remember God created man to NOT have knowledge which Satan already had. And the day he ate the fruit that would impart that knowledge he would die (which Satan already ate and wasn't dying). And after they ate the fruit they were banished so they wouldn't eat life fruit and "become like us" (immortal), which Satan already was. Also, Satan tempted Christ with giving him the world, our world!
Also explain the "fellowship and communion" that angels can't give but man can. While at it also explain how man is superior to angels.
See, told ya, you can’t reason these things with ridiculously limited human logic!

FxMasterz:

Yeah, things really can't be reasoned with man's limited reasoning. However some of these things still have logical explanations. When talking to unbelievers, it's not best to tell them things cannot be reasoned with human reasoning. Instead, you offer explanations they can easily relate with.

Logic would not completely answer all the questions but it can provide some basic understanding of things.

Omnipotent God CAN destroy the devil He created. He has DECIDED to do that at a latter time. He has the right to do things according to His decisions. He doesn't owe us an explanation for making such decisions but as a human I believe that God is giving Satan a long rope to pull - giving him all the time to repent. He is still God's creation. God loves all His creations nonetheless and does not want to destroy any.

There's no law saying He has to wait. It's His own personal decision, and you cannot know better than Him.



The same way humans were an improvement on angels. They were created in God's image and had been useful in terms of fellowship and communion with God. First, God wanted fellowship and communion which angels couldn't provide, hence He created man.

Secondly, He created man purposely to humiliate the devil. Without knowing the very purpose for which
God created man, you'll ask irrelevant questions and still consider yourself intelligent.

After Satan rebelled by wanting to overthrow and rule over God, God created this dust in His image and set this dust over the rebellious archangel. This plan of dust ruling over the fallen archangel was what made the devil to attack man and snatch away the dominion.

You have a point but I wouldn't say man is an improvement over angels that's far fetched. The devil is a lesson to the whole of creation, the major plot of the story was that he wanted to overthrow God believe it or not that's an high treason and as a result God has set him and his angels as the least of all creation ideally that's the plan of God but in reality this is not so. Don't forget by his power he pulled down 1/3 of the stars of heaven what happened to the 2/3 they were not moved(they stood with God) that's why they have crowns upon their heads and He covers them with his glory, now it's our turn he(devil) has come to us with great anger but are we really overcoming him? That's why revelation 12:11 says "and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony therefore they loved not their souls unto death". Angels have done their part in heaven now it's time to do yours and by the way where do they say Angels are? And where are you presently? Work out your salvation with fear and trembling! First win an Olympic Gold medal before you start saying you are better than an Olympic Gold medalist! [color=#006600][/color]

DaddyCoool:


I won't say you're talking nonsense, but I believe it is better tto say that's just how things are than to lie or give ridiculous explanations. Reminds me of the guy who kept insisting there are no inconsistencies in the Bible.

Can you please explain exactly how man rules over Satan and stronger. In what way?? Remember God created man to NOT have knowledge which Satan already had. And the day he ate the fruit that would impart that knowledge he would die (which Satan already ate and wasn't dying). And after they ate the fruit they were banished so they wouldn't eat life fruit and "become like us" (immortal), which Satan already was. Also, Satan tempted Christ with giving him the world, our world!
Also explain the "fellowship and communion" that angels can't give but man can. While at it also explain how man is superior to angels.
See, told ya, you can’t reason these things with ridiculously limited human logic!

My colleague might not have chosen the right words but the idea is that through the sonship of God Satan has been subjected to us. Even in physics there are ideal characteristics but in reality most of the time it is not really met. God just wanted man to know him, He knew also that man will fall; He knew that man will be so convinced of the devil to be like God. As for Satan, knowledge comes from the spirit and being with God knowledge is received even as a gift of God(word of knowledge). If Jesus spending just a few years(ministerial) on this earth and through this little time the mentalities and dispositions of his disciples were changed, imagine being with God for a very long time. You are privy to knowledge.

MindHacker9009:


Here are proofs:
The Book of Acts claims Three Thousand souls were added to the Church in just one day, and that daily the Church grew, this was around 33 CE after the ascension of Jesus. Flavius Josephus the only Jewish historian in the first century that Christians do refer to for reference was born in the year 37 CE just three years after the fake ascension of Jesus christ and Josephus stated that there were only three sects in existence when he was 16, and he did not hear of Christianity.
Flavius Josephus: "And when I was about sixteen years old, I had a mind to make trim of the several sects that were among us. These sects are three: - The first is that of the Pharisees, the second that Sadducees, and the third that of the Essenes, as we have frequently told you; for I thought that by this means I might choose the best, if I were once acquainted with them all; so I contented myself with hard fare, and underwent great difficulties, and went through them all."

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing in the first century, mentions several individuals named Jesus (or Yeshua in Hebrew). It was a common name at the time, so multiple figures with the name appear in his works. Here are the individuals named Jesus that Josephus mentioned, but with Jesus of Nazareth he did not say 'son of' which historians have claimed for a Jewish writer not to mention the 'son of' shows it is a sign that was a made up story and it's either he left the clue himself or a forger added it later:

1. Jesus, son of Ananias
Mentioned in: The Jewish War (Book 6, Chapter 5, Sections 3)
Role: A prophetic figure
Details: Around AD 62, Jesus, son of Ananias, was a commoner who began to prophesy doom for Jerusalem. He wandered through the streets during the Feast of Tabernacles, repeatedly shouting warnings of the city's destruction. Despite being arrested, beaten, and questioned by Roman authorities, he continued his proclamations. He was eventually killed during the siege of Jerusalem by a stone launched from a Roman catapult.

2. Jesus, son of Gamaliel
Mentioned in: The Jewish War (Book 4, Chapter 3, Sections 9)
Role: High Priest
Details: Jesus, son of Gamaliel, served as a High Priest in Jerusalem shortly before the First Jewish-Roman War. He was involved in the political and religious leadership of the city during this tumultuous period but was removed from office after a short tenure.

3. Jesus, son of Sapphias
Mentioned in: The Jewish War (Book 2, Chapter 20, Sections 4)
Role: Leader of rebels in Tiberias
Details: Jesus, son of Sapphias, was a leader of a rebellious faction in Tiberias during the Jewish revolt against Rome. He played a key role in the violence that erupted in Galilee, seizing the city's royal palace and massacring a group of Roman sympathizers.

4. Jesus, brother of James (Jesus of Nazareth)
Mentioned in: Antiquities of the Jews (Book 20, Chapter 9, Section 1)
Role: Religious leader
Details: Josephus refers to Jesus of Nazareth, the central figure of Christianity, indirectly through a reference to his brother James. In this passage, Josephus discusses the illegal execution of James, "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ" (Χριστός). While this is a brief mention, it is significant because it confirms that Josephus was aware of Jesus and his movement.

5. Jesus, son of Damnaeus
Mentioned in: Antiquities of the Jews (Book 20, Chapter 9, Section 1)
Role: High Priest
Details: After the execution of James, the brother of Jesus (Jesus of Nazareth), Jesus, son of Damnaeus, was appointed as High Priest by the Roman authorities. This appointment came as a political maneuver during a period of unrest in Jerusalem.

6. Jesus, son of Thebuthus
Mentioned in: The Jewish War (Book 6, Chapter 8, Section 3)
Role: Temple official
Details: Jesus, son of Thebuthus, was involved in the events leading to the Roman siege of Jerusalem in AD 70. He is mentioned as one of the officials who surrendered sacred Temple items to the Romans in an attempt to gain favor and spare his own life.

How does this in any way prove that Jesus was a fictionalized invention of the romans created to do what you said. If anything it even counters your claim by pointing to an actual historical Jesus which Josephus did. All you did was show me what we already know that christainity was an offshoot of Judaism, where you expecting a new created sect to have fully formed . According to academic scholar Dan Maclellan, even by the time of the writing of the first gospel of Mark around 70CE, the no of christains compared to the general population was like 1000 to basically millions, besides Jospehus was talking about Jewish sects. This doesn't serve the purpose you think it does.

Yes there were several individuals named Jesus as it was a common name but again i don't see how this helps your claim instead again its the opposite since he was uniquely identified out of the others because the unique identifier was how he was popularly known, and was sufficient enough to identify him. Even if that wasn't the case how does the lack of "son of lead" to the conclusion you came up with. Its rather poorly done, maybe read Atwill's book to form a better argument to support this your claim.

Like most theists you come to a conclusion and look for and as well bend evidence to support that conclusion when it should be the other way round with the evidence leading to the conclusion. Like i said earlier it's ready a consensus and has gone past opinion amongst scholars, there was a historical Jesus the Christ, did he do what was said in the bible?! That's a different matter all together. Even for mythicists that deny the historical Jesus, the claim that a historical Jesus was a roman invention is clearly disputed and not consensus. So this your proof is rather poor cause it doesn't support you claim at all, even though its a legitimate source.

P.S You keep dodging my questions about the Torah, right from your first thread. Lol!

Gabrielshow24:


You have a point but I wouldn't say man is an improvement over angels that's far fetched. The devil is a lesson to the whole of creation, the major plot of the story was that he wanted to overthrow God believe it or not that's an high treason and as a result God has set him and his angels as the least of all creation ideally that's the plan of God but in reality this is not so. Don't forget by his power he pulled down 1/3 of the stars of heaven what happened to the 2/3 they were not moved(they stood with God) that's why they have crowns upon their heads and He covers them with his glory, now it's our turn he(devil) has come to us with great anger but are we really overcoming him? That's why revelation 12:11 says "and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony therefore they loved not their souls unto death". Angels have done their part in heaven now it's time to do yours and by the way where do they say Angels are? And where are you presently? Work out your salvation with fear and trembling! First win an Olympic Gold medal before you start saying you are better than an Olympic Gold medalist! [color=#006600][/color]

Thanks very much. I understand your points. My saying man was an improvement on angels, I meant God's original intention. God actually created man majorly for fellowship and as a punishment for Satan. That's why only man can enjoy God's visitation. Only man can have God's Son dying for him. Only man can be possessed by the Spirit of God. Hebrews 1:14 says angels are our ministering spirits. Angels are servants in heaven while men are rulers. They're counted as sons. Jesus went back to heaven as a man to represent man on the throne of heaven. Angels have no such representation. Angels were the first to sin and fall, but God provided remedy to man alone. Man shall reign with Christ forever and ever.

Though the word 'improvement' isn't the right word but I was trying to use it to draw a parallel with what he said about angels.

DaddyCoool:


Child, there are no inconsistencies in the Bible about the really important things. You won't see anywhere where it says Moses received 8 Commandments or that Elizabeth was the mother of Christ, or that the Lord said kill your neighbor, etc

Really! So we are making progress then, first we started with no contradictions or inconsistencies, then we moved to no inconsistencies "of the really important things" 😁. Btw who determines what's important and what's not seeing as no 2 christains agree on the interpretation of the bible from cover to cover, despite been divinely inspired. Then again if it was divinely inspired it'll be contradiction and inconsistency free as God is perfect and not an author of confusion right?!

Anyways i'm sure you would say, God saying "Thou shall not kill" and then commanding them to kill severally because "reasons", while claiming to be a god of love is not an inconsistency or contradiction. So a simpler litmus test then, simple question i like asking you guys. Does god change his mind?! Simple Yes or No.

DaddyCoool:


I won't say you're talking nonsense, but I believe it is better tto say that's just how things are than to lie or give ridiculous explanations. Reminds me of the guy who kept insisting there are no inconsistencies in the Bible.

Maybe I would have to leave you to yourself before you start abusing me. I have read the Bible over and over, times without number and I'm telling you things that are clearly seen in scripture. I can give you scripture references for all my points. Rather than ask questions, you want to say I am talking nonesense because you think everyone is as limited in biblical knowledge as yourself.

Can you please explain exactly how man rules over Satan and stronger. In what way??

Can you please show me where I said man rules over Satan?

Please go back to what I said. That's what God created man for, and that's what Satan attacked.

Remember God created man to NOT have knowledge which Satan already had. And the day he ate the fruit that would impart that knowledge he would die (which Satan already ate and wasn't dying). And after they ate the fruit they were banished so they wouldn't eat life fruit and "become like us" (immortal), which Satan already was. Also, Satan tempted Christ with giving him the world, our world!

This is now a deviation from the original questions asked which I already answered.

God said man would die if he ate the fruit, and that's it exactly. Man died. Two types of death came to man because of the fruit.

1. Spiritual death - a disconnection from God and the loss of God's Glory.

2. Physical death: Man was originally created on earth as an eternal being. Death came because of the fruit. This is why God sent man out of the garden: the man having eaten the forbidden fruits now has the knowledge for evil tendencies - crime and all forms of abominations. He is also now prone to sicknesses and sufferings which were not part of him initially. God didn't want man to live eternally in this state, so, in order to block their access to the tree of life (their regular meal that could restore immortality), God had to send man out of the garden and even place angels with swords in the garden of Eden to guide against any attempt for man to come for the tree of life and restore his immortality (Genesis 3:24).

Satan owns the world because it was delivered to him by Adam. Adam was the god of this world (Psalm 115:16). Man was the owner of the world. As Satan said to Jesus "...it was delivered to me, and I can give it to whosoever I will." Adam was the one who delivered it through disobedience. The dominion Adam had in Genesis 1:26-28 departed from Adam and became Satan's after the fall. Adam was the original lord of this world.

Also explain the "fellowship and communion" that angels can't give but man can. While at it also explain how man is superior to angels.
See, told ya, you can’t reason these things with ridiculously limited human logic!

Once you come into Christ, the first thing you receive as a new believer is the restoration of fellowship.

Did you not read in Genesis that God came at the cool of the day to visit Adam and Eve? (Genesis 3:8-10). What was He coming to do? Fellowship and communion of course. He came to earth to enjoy something that was not available to Him in heaven. Have you ever read in the Bible where God has fellowship or communion with angels? You can show me a verse if you have one. Angels are just MESSENGERS. No more, no less. Infact, the meaning of the word 'angel' is messanger. They were created for specific duties only. Fellowship and relationship is not among. God doesn't have any familial relationship with angels as He does with man. Angels are constantly on errands by a word of command from God. God said to mam "Come, let us reason together." Isaiah 1:18. God never reasons together with angels. He simply commands them. There's no such relationship between God and angels to make them reason together. If an angel disobeys God, he is instantly cast out of God's presence without any remedy. If a man disobeys God, the case is different. God will reason it out with him and bring him to see reasons for obedience. He may chastise him or do whatever He can to bring him back. If the man repents, God receives him again after a brief discussion. Reasoning together is a form of fellowship as well.

1 John 1:13
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ."

FxMasterz:


Thanks very much. I understand your points. My saying man was an improvement on angels, I meant God's original intention. God actually created man majorly for fellowship and as a punishment for Satan. That's why only man can enjoy God's visitation. Only man can have God's Son dying for him. Only man can be possessed by the Spirit of God. Hebrews 1:14 says angels are our ministering spirits. Angels are servants in heaven while men are rulers. They're counted as sons. Jesus went back to heaven as a man to represent man on the throne of heaven. Angels have no such representation. Angels were the first to sin and fall, but God provided remedy to man alone. Man shall reign with Christ forever and ever.

Though the word 'improvement' isn't the right word but I was trying to use it to draw a parallel with what he said about angels.

You still missed a vital point. Imagine you were alone on a remote Island, do you expect anything from anybody? What type of mentality do you think you will have? Instead you make and build things with your hands. Now take this a step higher Imagine being alone without nothing and even higher without time and space, only you in existence what mentality do you think you will have? now you have to create space, dividends of time, objects etc) . Your mentality will be of service cause you can't receive from anyone(objects) because in fact you made them. Hence anyone that wants to be like God must have a mentality of service, as far as Heaven is to earth Jesus told his disciples he that must be the greatest (chiefest) among you must serve the rest. I don't imagine Angels seeing God working and not work. Just remember that "Just because you were sent to bring baby food for your brother doesn't mean he is greater than you" but at the moment he is the one that needs the help. Angels don't need that help infact what can you do for an Angel? you are the one that needs the help and Angels offer the little help they can. This illusory effect is well exemplified in the statement "the Child is the father of the man". Now if Christ(Jesus) is the Tree of life, what does the bible say about this tree? That we men were grafted unto it, does that negate the fact that there are branches beforehand on the tree? And if there are? What then are these branches? Angels are not servants neither is man in heaven. There is no pride in the habitation of God hence your esteem is based on the service you can render to others. In Ezekiel the cherub moved wheresoever the Omni wheel move also the bible says as many as are led of God are called the sons of God. Do you see the correlation? We are all part of the branches of the Tree of life; there is no objective way to say this branch is better than this branch except by the fruits.

Gabrielshow24:


You still missed a vital point. Imagine you were alone on a remote Island, do you expect anything from anybody? What type of mentality do you think you will have? Instead you make and build things with your hands. Now take this a step higher Imagine being alone without nothing and even higher without time and space, only you in existence what mentality do you think you will have? now you have to create space, dividends of time, objects etc) . Your mentality will be of service cause you can't receive from anyone(objects) because in fact you made them. Hence anyone that wants to be like God must have a mentality of service, as far as Heaven is to earth Jesus told his disciples he that must be the greatest (chiefest) among you must serve the rest. I don't imagine Angels seeing God working and not work. Just remember that "Just because you were sent to bring baby food for your brother doesn't mean he is greater than you" but at the moment he is the one that needs the help. Angels don't need that help infact what can you do for an Angel? you are the one that needs the help and Angels offer the little help they can. This illusory effect is well exemplified in the statement "the Child is the father of the man". Now if Christ(Jesus) is the Tree of life, what does the bible say about this tree? That we men were grafted unto it, does that negate the fact that there are branches beforehand on the tree? And if there are? What then are these branches? Angels are not servants neither is man in heaven. There is no pride in the habitation of God hence your esteem is based on the service you can render to others. In Ezekiel the cherub moved wheresoever the Omni wheel move also the bible says as many as are led of God are called the sons of God. Do you see the correlation? We are all part of the branches of the Tree of life; there is no objective way to say this branch is better than this branch except by the fruits.

Smiling.

Even the word 'angel' means messenger. I don't know what you're hitting at actually.

Angels are actually servants created for specific duties.

Men will reign with Christ forever. Angels would serve as messengers forever. That's the Bible.

Angels are not a branch of the tree of life. They have nothing to do with it. Christ didn't become an angel, He became a man. Christ didn't die for angels. He died for man.

FxMasterz:

Maybe I would have to leave you to yourself before you start abusing me. I have read the Bible over and over, times without number and I'm telling you things that are clearly seen in scripture. I can give you scripture references for all my points. Rather than ask questions, you want to say I am talking nonesense because you think everyone is as limited in biblical knowledge as yourself.


Can you please show me where I said man rules over Satan?

Please go back to what I said. That's what God created man for, and that's what Satan attacked.


This is now a deviation from the original questions asked which I already answered.

God said man would die if he ate the fruit, and that's it exactly. Man died. Two types of death came to man because of the fruit.

1. Spiritual death - a disconnection from God and the loss of God's Glory.

2. Physical death: Man was originally created on earth as an eternal being. Death came because of the fruit. This is why God sent man out of the garden: the man having eaten the forbidden fruits now has the knowledge for evil tendencies - crime and all forms of abominations. He is also now prone to sicknesses and sufferings which were not part of him initially. God didn't want man to live eternally in this state, so, in order to block their access to the tree of life (their regular meal that could restore immortality), God had to send man out of the garden and even place angels with swords in the garden of Eden to guide against any attempt for man to come for the tree of life and restore his immortality (Genesis 3:24).

Satan owns the world because it was delivered to him by Adam. Adam was the god of this world (Psalm 115:16). Man was the owner of the world. As Satan said to Jesus "...it was delivered to me, and I can give it to whosoever I will." Adam was the one who delivered it through disobedience. The dominion Adam had in Genesis 1:26-28 departed from Adam and became Satan's after the fall. Adam was the original lord of this world.



Once you come into Christ, the first thing you receive as a new believer is the restoration of fellowship.

Did you not read in Genesis that God came at the cool of the day to visit Adam and Eve? (Genesis 3:8-10). What was He coming to do? Fellowship and communion of course. He came to earth to enjoy something that was not available to Him in heaven. Have you ever read in the Bible where God has fellowship or communion with angels? You can show me a verse if you have one. Angels are just MESSENGERS. No more, no less. Infact, the meaning of the word 'angel' is messanger. They were created for specific duties only. Fellowship and relationship is not among. God doesn't have any familial relationship with angels as He does with man. Angels are constantly on errands by a word of command from God. God said to mam "Come, let us reason together." Isaiah 1:18. God never reasons together with angels. He simply commands them. There's no such relationship between God and angels to make them reason together. If an angel disobeys God, he is instantly cast out of God's presence without any remedy. If a man disobeys God, the case is different. God will reason it out with him and bring him to see reasons for obedience. He may chastise him or do whatever He can to bring him back. If the man repents, God receives him again after a brief discussion. Reasoning together is a form of fellowship as well.

1 John 1:13
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ."

Now first of all, are you are a messenger of God?
This is pride syndrome. One thing I know for sure is that every object comes with it's own manual never for once have I seen a LG TV come with a Samsung manual but does it mean that a Samsung manual doesn't exist? Jesus said "how can I tell you of heavenly things when earthly matters you are still lacking" the bible is well adept at giving you what is sufficient. If it wasn't mentioned in the bible that Angels ate many will still be of a different opinion how many more things do you know Angels have? don't mistake God visiting/checking up on his children as a form of filling something that is missing and for a matter of fact he didn't stay totally with them, he came and left🤔, which means he still went back to where? What's now the fuss about? What exactly do you know the fallen angels did that warranted they be cast out? Do you know the hidden details? Have you for once thought how they planned to achieve their goals? Actions they took? Learn to see things from the bigger picture. Angels are spirits they exist in the form they were made even till now but you and I are flesh. In the beginning God said all that he made were good, is it so now? Is that same man good? From this you see that as regards the flesh it is by its fruits that we quality it but as regards the spirit it is as it is that it earns it qualification; why do think Job wished he were not born? Spirit and flesh are two different things.

FxMasterz:


Smiling.

Even the word 'angel' means messenger. I don't know what you're hitting at actually.

Angels are actually servants created for specific duties.

Men will reign with Christ forever. Angels would serve as messengers forever. That's the Bible.

Angels are not a branch of the tree of life. They have nothing to do with it. Christ didn't become an angel, He became a man. Christ didn't die for angels. He died for man.

Why do you think that is so?
Christ clearly said that it is the sick that need a physician(doctor). As I said earlier it's man that needs the help not Angels because from this we can see that:
1. Angels are not sick
2. They don't warrant or require the plan of man's salvation because they are already saved🤔. Am sure at this moment some Angels are singing and dancing in heaven while you and I are here having this conversation.

You paint the picture as if when man enters heaven angels will serve us. To you servitude is a form of gratification the usual way men Lord over others🤔, once again Pride.

God is humility and love.

Gabrielshow24:


Now first of all, are you are a messenger of God?
This is pride syndrome. One thing I know for sure is that every object comes with it's own manual never for once have I seen a LG TV come with a Samsung manual but does it mean that a Samsung manual doesn't exist? Jesus said "how can I tell you of heavenly things when earthly matters you are still lacking" the bible is well adept at giving you what is sufficient. If it wasn't mentioned in the bible that Angels ate many will still be of a different opinion how many more things do you know Angels have? don't mistake God visiting/checking up on his children as a form of filling something that is missing and for a matter of fact he didn't stay totally with them, he came and left🤔, which means he still went back to where? What's now the fuss about? What exactly do you know the fallen angels did that warranted they be cast out? Do you know the hidden details? Have you for once thought how they planned to achieve their goals? Actions they took? Learn to see things from the bigger picture. Angels are spirits they exist in the form they were made even till now but you and I are flesh. In the beginning God said all that he made were good, is it so now? Is that same man good? From this you see that as regards the flesh it is by its fruits that we quality it but as regards the spirit it is as it is that it earns it qualification; why do think Job wished he were not born? Spirit and flesh are two different things.

There's no pride in stating the facts as they are in scripture. I even supported my position with three relevant scriptures references which you ignored. Angels are ministers. That is messengers. That's all.

God created man in His own image and likeness for a reason - Fellowship and punishment for Satan.

Each angel is created for a specific duty. Angels of war for war. Message bearing angels for messages. Worship angels for worship. Covering angels for coverings. Etc.

Man died keep his state because he fell as a result of sin. The angels that fell as a result of sin didn't keep their states either.

God's initial program was for Him to be God in heaven and for man His image to be lord on earth.

Hebrews 1:14

"Therefore, angels are only servants—spirits sent to care for people who will inherit salvation."

You might do well to read the whole Hebrews 1 and 2 to understand these facts.

FxMasterz:

Maybe I would have to leave you to yourself before you start abusing me. I have read the Bible over and over, times without number and I'm telling you things that are clearly seen in scripture. I can give you scripture references for all my points. Rather than ask questions, you want to say I am talking nonesense because you think everyone is as limited in biblical knowledge as yourself.


Can you please show me where I said man rules over Satan?

Please go back to what I said. That's what God created man for, and that's what Satan attacked.


This is now a deviation from the original questions asked which I already answered.

God said man would die if he ate the fruit, and that's it exactly. Man died. Two types of death came to man because of the fruit.

1. Spiritual death - a disconnection from God and the loss of God's Glory.

2. Physical death: Man was originally created on earth as an eternal being. Death came because of the fruit. This is why God sent man out of the garden: the man having eaten the forbidden fruits now has the knowledge for evil tendencies - crime and all forms of abominations. He is also now prone to sicknesses and sufferings which were not part of him initially. God didn't want man to live eternally in this state, so, in order to block their access to the tree of life (their regular meal that could restore immortality), God had to send man out of the garden and even place angels with swords in the garden of Eden to guide against any attempt for man to come for the tree of life and restore his immortality (Genesis 3:24).

Satan owns the world because it was delivered to him by Adam. Adam was the god of this world (Psalm 115:16). Man was the owner of the world. As Satan said to Jesus "...it was delivered to me, and I can give it to whosoever I will." Adam was the one who delivered it through disobedience. The dominion Adam had in Genesis 1:26-28 departed from Adam and became Satan's after the fall. Adam was the original lord of this world.



Once you come into Christ, the first thing you receive as a new believer is the restoration of fellowship.

Did you not read in Genesis that God came at the cool of the day to visit Adam and Eve? (Genesis 3:8-10). What was He coming to do? Fellowship and communion of course. He came to earth to enjoy something that was not available to Him in heaven. Have you ever read in the Bible where God has fellowship or communion with angels? You can show me a verse if you have one. Angels are just MESSENGERS. No more, no less. Infact, the meaning of the word 'angel' is messanger. They were created for specific duties only. Fellowship and relationship is not among. God doesn't have any familial relationship with angels as He does with man. Angels are constantly on errands by a word of command from God. God said to mam "Come, let us reason together." Isaiah 1:18. God never reasons together with angels. He simply commands them. There's no such relationship between God and angels to make them reason together. If an angel disobeys God, he is instantly cast out of God's presence without any remedy. If a man disobeys God, the case is different. God will reason it out with him and bring him to see reasons for obedience. He may chastise him or do whatever He can to bring him back. If the man repents, God receives him again after a brief discussion. Reasoning together is a form of fellowship as well.

1 John 1:13
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ."

I said I DID NOT want to say u were talking nonsense.
See, this is what I mean. Trying to fit logic into things that are impossible to logic.
HOW is man who is here today and gone tomorrow superior to immortals. The people you see around you struggling to survive are superior to angel Gabriel!
The bible said the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And those "sons of God" are inferior to man. Abegi!

How could a creature who was not even self-aware (before the fruit) rule over ANYTHING, talkless of Satan who had both knowledge and immortality??
Stop trying to explain things that are way beyond you!

Gabrielshow24:


Why do you think that is so?
Christ clearly said that it is the sick that need a physician(doctor). As I said earlier it's man that needs the help not Angels because from this we can see that:
1. Angels are not sick
2. They don't warrant or require the plan of man's salvation because they are already saved🤔. Am sure at this moment some Angels are singing and dancing in heaven while you and I are here having this conversation.

This does not negate the fact that angels are created for specific purposes. There are sick angels for whom Christ never died. Think about it.

You paint the picture as if when man enters heaven angels will serve us. To you servitude is a form of gratification the usual way men Lord over others🤔, once again Pride.

God is humility and love.

But where did you see me insinuate that service is a form of gratification? This is false accusation.

Angels are specifically created for specific purposes. Man is created as a being capable of relationship with God. Not for specific purposes like a robot.

DaddyCoool:


I said I DID NOT want to say u were talking nonsense.
See, this is what I mean. Trying to fit logic into things that are impossible to logic.
HOW is man who is here today and gone tomorrow superior to immortals. The people you see around you struggling to survive are superior to angel Gabriel!
The bible said the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And those "sons of god" are inferior to man. Abegi!

Man became mortal. He was originally immortal. He'll be immortal again at the close of this age when all things have been restituted. Man has an immortal spirit. A translation from his mortal flesh which came as a result of the fall does not make him mortal.

Please man in his spiritual state is a being created to engage God. Angels cannot do that. Angels will never sit on a throne but man will.

You're looking at physical man while I'm talking to you about the spiritual man.

Angels were referred to as sons of God, not because they were begotten of God but because they came from God's heaven. God has never personally referred to angels as His children. Give me any scripture that does.

God has referred to man as son, friend, confidant, etc.

FxMasterz:


Man became mortal. He was originally immortal. He'll be immortal again at the close of this age when all things have been restituted. Man has an immortal spirit. A translation from his mortal flesh which came as a result of the fall does not make him mortal.

Please man in his spiritual state is a being created to engage God. Angels cannot do that. Angels will never sit on a throne but man will.

You're looking at physical man while I'm talking to you about the spiritual man.

Angels were referred to as sons of God, not because they were begotten of God but because they came from God's heaven. God has never personally referred to angels as His children. Give me any scripture that does.

God has referred to man as son, friend, confidant, etc.

This is exactly what I mean. I'm not sure you're listening to yourself. How was man immortal when God drove them out lest they also eat of the fruit of life and become immortal "like us". Who do you think was the "us"?

The BIBLE calls them sons of God! And here you are, saying they were not. You know better than the Bible! Who do you think God was talking about when he was always talking about "us"? Has He ever included man in "us"
Abeg, just quit.

FxMasterz:

If God destroyed Satan, His plan has been defeated. If God destroys the first 2 humans, His plans are defeated as well because in both scenarios, dust cannot rule over Satan as planned. Satan thus gets the victory.

God not destroying the "robots" he made had nothing to do with competition with Satan.
Here's the reason:

6 And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”

8 Noah, however, found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

DaddyCoool:


This is exactly what I mean. I'm not sure you're listening to yourself. How was man immortal when God drove them out lest they also eat of the fruit of life and become immortal "like us". Who do you think was the "us"?

Ha. You should listen to yourself instead. Let me explain.

1. Which tree was God driving man away from after they ate the forbidden fruit? The tree of life.

2. Why was God driving them away from the tree? Because He doesn't want them to become immortal after they've become mortal.

3. Was the tree always in the garden or it just surfaced after they ate the forbidden fruit? Yes, it was always in the garden.

4. If it was always in the garden, were they eating it? Why not?

5. If they were eating the tree or life that was always in then garden, were they immortal? Yes of course. The tree itself makes them immortal.

The truth is that man was not created to die. He was created to live forever. Death came through the fruit they ate. That's why the Bible says "By one man's sin, death came into the world.".

The tree of life was the main food of Adam and Eve. So, if the tree gives immortality, how were they not immortal?

When reading the Bible, follow with your heart and let the Holy Spirit enlighten you, otherwise you'll miss obvious details.

The BIBLE calls them sons of God! And here you are, saying they were not. You know better than the Bible! Who do you think God was talking about when he was always talking about "us"? Has He ever included man in "us"
Abeg, just quit.

He doesn't include angels in 'us' either. Every 'us' in the Bible refers to the Trinity. There no single angelic reference. Prove me otherwise.

DaddyCoool:


God not destroying the "robots" he made had nothing to do with competition with Satan.
Here's the reason:

6 And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”

8 Noah, however, found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Then that answers your question.

God didn't blot out the Robots because He would not destroy on innocent man. And there are always one or two innocent men on earth at any given time.

And of course if God destroys the human race, Satan wins. There are deeper things in that scripture you quoted.

Check the scriptures, angels were called sons of God in Genesis 6 and in Job 38 by the narrator in a metaphoric manner. God never personally called them His sons.

FxMasterz:


Ha. You should listen to yourself instead. Let me explain.

1. Which tree was God driving man away from after they ate the forbidden fruit? The tree of life.

2. Why was God driving them away from the tree? Because He doesn't want them to become immortal after they've become mortal.

3. Was the tree always in the garden or it just surfaced after they ate the forbidden fruit? Yes, it was always in the garden.

4. If it was always in the garden, were they eating it? Why not?

5. If they were eating the tree or life that was always in then garden, were they immortal? Yes of course. The tree itself makes them immortal.

The truth is that man was not created to die. He was created to live forever. Death came through the fruit they ate. That's why the Bible says "By one man's sin, death came into the world.".

The tree of life was the main food of Adam and Eve. So, if the tree gives immortality, how were they not immortal?

When reading the Bible, follow with your heart and let the Holy Spirit enlighten you, otherwise you'll miss obvious details.



He doesn't include angels in 'us' either. Every 'us' in the Bible refers to the Trinity. There no single angelic reference. Prove me otherwise.

What convoluted explanation! Why not just leave things be? The Bible said "lest they ALSO eat of the tree of life"! See below.

When God said "lest they become immortal like us" , are angels not immortal? Aren't they part of the heavenly host?!

DaddyCoool:


What convoluted explanation! Why not just leave things be? The Bible said "lest they ALSO eat of the tree of life"! See below.

When God said "lest they become immortal like us" , are angels not immortal? Aren't they part of the heavenly host?!

My dear. This is not sound theology.

Adam and Eve were immortal beings. The tree of life was always in the garden. The only tree they were banned from eating was the tree of knowledge and evil.

"Lest they eat and become like us." Is appropriate statement because they were no longer immortal after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

And yes, God has the knowledge of Good and Evil but God will never do evil. Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil in their previous immortal state before their fall. They could only do good.

By eating of the tree of life again, they'll become immortal again, and also have knowledge of good and evil. Thus becoming like God. The people God refered to as 'Us' is the Trinity please. Not angels.

FxMasterz:


My dear. This is not sound theology.

Adam and Eve were immortal beings. The tree of life was always in the garden. The only tree they were banned from eating was the tree of knowledge and evil.

"Lest they eat and become like us." Is appropriate statement because they were no longer immortal after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

And yes, God has the knowledge of Good and Evil but God will never do evil. Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil in their previous immortal state before their fall. They could only do good.

By eating of the tree of life again, they'll become immortal again, and also have knowledge of good and evil. Thus becoming like God. The people God refered to as 'Us' is the Trinity please. Not angels.

This is truly laughable😅. Ok, so they were already immortal, so what was the use of the tree of life that'd make them immortal??
So God didn't want beings with knowledge to also be immortal. Have you forgotten Satan and the angels??
As to "us", wasn't God referring to immortal beings? Isn't it same as "lest they become immortal like we all are in heaven"??
Na wa 4 u o

FxMasterz:


Then that answers your question.

God didn't blot out the Robots because He would not destroy on innocent man. And there are always one or two innocent men on earth at any given time.

And of course if God destroys the human race, Satan wins. There are deeper things in that scripture you quoted.

Check the scriptures, angels were called sons of God in Genesis 6 and in Job 38 by the narrator in a metaphoric manner. God never personally called them His sons.

Funny guy. God clearly wanted to destroy but didn't - NOT because of any Satan, but because of Noah. But u have to ADD your own!

MindHacker9009:


You are the one confused. Christianity was created as a political tool which did not work on the real Jews and was later applied to the Roman empire to unite all their pagan religion under one roof.

Do you realize how silly and convoluted you sound??
Every other time Rome simply went to war. This is the ONLY time in history this has ever happened - to defeat a much weaker adversary, you create a messiah for them (whose every story tarnished you). Then when it didn't work, you turn the Messiah on your own people, and use your fake messiah to destroy your own gods that made you a great empire, and your made-up messiah now becomes the only true God! WOW!! DO YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID YOU SOUND??!

And, created by WHOM exactly? ("Rome" is not a person - even King James appended his name to KJV). And what other great works did this our great author write afterwards? This greatest of authors who came up with the powerful words of Christ in the NT couldn't have just stopped there and wrote nothing else!