ItGeek:

Its so so painful being a chelsea fan these days, AVB says we're rebuilding.

Rebuilding what? If he's building a new team, at-least you'll see the signs that something new is happening. When you build on a weak foundation, the building will collapse even before you finish building. That guy (AVB) look confused and the players playing confusedly, no pattern, no winning spirit, no motivation.

AVB was a BIG mistake

It felt like torture watching the game today. It got to a point i was getting this urge foя Swansea to get a 2nd goal. . .bcuz they deserved it. Our coach only wants to close the gap on Tottenham anyway, but those guys at WHL aint gonna make that shiit easy foя us. Fuhk it!!

Chelsea was awful today. AVB loses on Sunday and that's it foя him.

coogar:

the most intelligent sentence on the chelsea thread in 2012.

however, people put mikel down because he doesn't score and assist goals.
they forget that his short, backward passes help the team retain possession, provides a balance and it gives the attacking players the freedom to cause havoc.
if it's down to goals/assists - guardiola wouldn't need busquets, fergie wouldn't need carrick and liverpool fans won't be missing lucas leivia.

Possession is not our problem currently, certainly not slow possession. Chelsea are 2nd in the table on possession stats. The problem is what it has been for the last few seasons. . . speedy transition on the wings. . . Anelka was one of the few that could provide a remote semblance of that in recent seasons but he's off to China.

Ibime:

Possession is not our problem currently, certainly not slow possession. Chelsea are 2nd in the table on possession stats. The problem is what it has been for the last few seasons. . . speedy transition on the wings. . . Anelka was one of the few that could provide a remote semblance of that in recent seasons but he's off to China.

mikel is not only about possession. . . .mikel is a grafter.
he gets in people's faces, he provides a shield to your edgy back four. . .players like him are a wonderful tool to have in a team.
since his injury, one could drive a tractor through chelsea's defence without hassles.

Rubbish. . . since his injury, Chelsea defending has improved two-fold. . . We've kept 4 clean sheets in the last 6 matches. . . Mikel has only played in 2 games where we kept clean sheet this season (Blackburn and Stoke) whilst Romeu has played in 10 (Valencia, Genk, Newcastle, Wolves, Norwich, Sunderland, Portsmouth (FA), Fulham (LC), QPR (last week) and Leverkusen). . . .  when was the last time Chelsea conceded more than one goal. . . or do you like dragging opinions out ya arse?

Mikel who has been an abject failure at Chelsea for 6 seasons suddenly turned to the reason we are not rolling over teams? Wake up nigga!

Ibime:

Rubbish. . . since his injury, Chelsea defending has improved two-fold. . . We've kept 4 clean sheets in the last 6 matches. . . Mikel has only played in 2 games where we kept clean sheet this season (Blackburn and Stoke) whilst Romeu has played in 10 (Valencia, Genk, Newcastle, Wolves, Norwich, Sunderland, Portsmouth (FA), Fulham (LC), QPR (last week) and Leverkusen). . . .  when was the last time Chelsea conceded more than one goal. . . or do you like dragging opinions out ya arse?

you're a disgrace if you compare games against genk, norwich, wolves, sunderland, portsmouth and qpr to the ones mikel played(arsenal, man utd, tottenham, liverpool and man city).

Mikel who has been an abject failure at Chelsea for 6 seasons suddenly turned to the reason we are not rolling over teams? Wake up nigga!

so mikel has been a failure @ chelsea for 6 seasons?
you have lost your ability to reason rationally. . . . . .it's they have removed the fuse in your brain circuitry.

Medicore perfomance once again we did'nt deserve the point yesterday, no playing pattern, the management cannot mortivate the players, our strikers are useless. With the way things are going we won't reach 70 points tally

If I ever hear AVB speak of spirited play or bullshyte afta a stupid march like yesterdays,I swear to put a permanent curse on him. Meanwhile,which wing player did we bring into d team after letting anelka go to China? Nil! Na racist or wetin dis imbecilic coach b or wat? I repeat d fact dat,CFC is d only top flight team without natural wing players or a player who can actually run d flanks well. Afta all d initial gra gra from Mr porridge e b like say we dey look bush dis days. Even mata looks lost too. I wonder Y AVB plays mata on d flank wen he has no pace @ all. I also say,play bosingwa Upfront and not as a rite back cos,he is more useful going forward. Yet, some peeps still believe in dis apprentice called AVB. Well,guess is d end of d season for me already den cos,can't stand 1 more clueless looking game from dis squad.

I hadn't watched the team play since the congested December fixture skin--of-the-teeth victory over Wolves. I simply switched off since then. Best way to describe yesterday's game- absolutely pathetic! I have learnt not to expect too much from them as presently set up, as they're still a team in transition. The core of the team needs to be taken down with a mallet, not just fine-tuned around the edges with a chisel as AVB erroneously thought during the last summer transfer window.

Ramires may not be Maradona but his runs puts pressure on our opponents.
This Chelsea team do not press, they are content to knock the ball slowly in midfield.

We have asked Portugal's answer to Wigan's Manager Roberto Martinez to manage Chelsea

Oga Nateevs

How far?

How many more games do we need to give failure Torres?

How many times has he started without the interference of Drogba or lampard?

How many goals has he scored?

If you were the coach whose 10m Pounds job is on the line Would you still stick to Torres when Drogba comes back to town?

Its easy for coogar to say stick to Torres when the only thing he is staking is his NL monicker.

If you were AVB with a 10m salary on the line would you still stick to Torres after a month starting role in the number 9 position

I have tried very hard to avoid the Torres argument because I cannot engage in false analysis.
However I will give my take on the whole issue. Trying not to get into any long arguments over who is right and who isn't.
If you saw the game yesterday, you will definitely conclude that Torres was a complete wrong buy for Chelsea.
Not because he cannot score but because we don't play to his strengths.

Like I have said constantly, Torres is not a striker who relies on physique and strength to score goals.
Torres relies on space and feeds from midfield. Torres relies on vertical passes.
We are currently not doing that at Chelsea. Last night, Torres did not receive a single pass to free him on goal.
We kept moving the ball to over lapping FBs whose crosses never beat the first man.

There's no way he's going to score.
Below is a heat map of the passes we made. Look at the concentration of passes. We barely got to the byline.
We hardly put passes into the box to free our striker. It's just a concentration of useless passes back and forth around midfield.
Few passes to the byline, few passes into the box, you will not win a game and unless your Strikers fire screamers from 30-yards, they won't score.

So contrary to what you have been peddling for some time now,
Torres problem is not Drogba, Its not Lampard, Its not the absence of Mata Rather its Torres himself.

How does a striker receive a pass that frees him on goals?

How does Filipo Inzaghi receive this kind of pass and JD Tommason in the same club playing in the same midfield does not receive the same pass?

Its the movement and instinct of the striker that puts him in such situation. Another striker would play in front of that same Chelsea and get passes that frees him in front of goal.

Does Torres looks to make these type of runs that frees him in front of goal?

Let me use 2 strikers in the same club Chicharito and Berbatov. Both score goals While Berbatov helps in building up plays by holding up and laying passes, Hernandez is not interested. He is always at the shoulder of the last defender making runs, A lot of times he would be frustrated, caught offside etc but the few ones he gets right he buries

I have seen torres get the ball in decent position and makes tame attempts atimes doesnt even hit target. Like vs Norwich from inside the box

So the question is [size=18pt]if you were the coach What would you do with the situation when Drogba comes backand Torres cant still score in almost 6-7weeks[/size]

As an aside how come in the last 2 years no one has been playing to Torres strenght neither club nor country since 2010 spring

nateevs:

I have tried very hard to avoid the Torres argument because I cannot engage in false analysis.
However I will give my take on the whole issue. Trying not to get into any long arguments over who is right and who isn't.
If you saw the game yesterday, you will definitely conclude that Torres was a complete wrong buy for Chelsea.
Not because he cannot score but because we don't play to his strengths.

Like I have said constantly, Torres is not a striker who relies on physique and strength to score goals.
Torres relies on space and feeds from midfield. Torres relies on vertical passes.
We are currently not doing that at Chelsea. Last night, Torres did not receive a single pass to free him on goal.
We kept moving the ball to over lapping FBs whose crosses never beat the first man.

There's no way he's going to score.
Below is a heat map of the passes we made. Look at the concentration of passes. We barely got to the byline.
We hardly put passes into the box to free our striker. It's just a concentration of useless passes back and forth around midfield.
Few passes to the byline, few passes into the box, you will not win a game and unless your Strikers fire screamers from 30-yards, they won't score. 

this issue has been over-flogged and yet charlatans like dayokanu, ibime and bluediva still won't get it.

dayokanu thinks the absence of drogba would suddenly make torres score goals? how daft can someone be to think that way.
like i have been saying for more than a month - if the chelsea coaching crew would not play to torres' strength, he's a waste of space in chelsea.
if i purchase a player worth £50m, common sense dictates i build the entire team around my marquee signing, but that isn't the case in chelsea.

torres is being treated like man utd would deploy michael owen in the team.
the only player capable of providing the through-ball is being shifted wide with mechanical players who are as slow as slugs deployed behind torres.
how's he going to score when chelsea rarely get on the by-line to deliver crosses? how's he going to score when torres has only been put through on goal just 5 times since he joined chelsea?

from the chalkboard you showed there, there's no way a striker who plays on the shoulder of the last defender would flourish.
chelsea's pace is slower than the revolution of the earth. i cannot imagine hernandez playing for chelsea, he would have been considered a flop cos it takes 5 minutes for lampard to spot a striker running through on goal.
i am sure villas-boas knows what the problem is but probably he's not a fan of torres. . . . .he wants roman abramovic to cut losses on fernando torres.


i don't have a coaching badge but i can turn torres to the most prolific striker in the league if i manage chelsea for the rest of the season.
there was an opinion poll on redcafe 2 weeks ago. a staggering 60% said they would swap torres for rooney without any hesitation.
astute observers who know how dangerous torres can be know he's being left out of the loop in chelsea.
the system chelsea play and the misuse of the supporting cast is the reason torres is misfiring in chelsea.

@Dayo.

Like I told you, I won't be getting a lot into these arguments of Torres.
Look at the heat map. This is not a case of strikers finding space.
This is a case of no balls into the box in the first place.

We just don't have players who look to provide quality balls into the box.
When a team constantly puts balls into the box, bone Torres, even other players will get a sniff at goal and force saves off the goalie. Right now though, this is not happening.

This is a team issue and as far as I am concerned any striker will struggle to score goals.
Even Danny is no longer scoring.

coogar:

this issue has been over-flogged and yet charlatans like dayokanu, ibime and bluediva still won't get it.

dayokanu thinks the absence of drogba would suddenly make torres score goals? how daft can someone be to think that way.
like i have been saying for more than a month - if the chelsea coaching crew would not play to torres' strength, he's a waste of space in chelsea.
if i purchase a player worth £50m, common sense dictates i build the entire team around my marquee signing, but that isn't the case in chelsea.

This was the same person who argued that playing Drogba was what stopped Torres from getting into his stride and even quoted Ancelotti that Drogba needed to be sold for Torres to flourish. Now Drogba is out of the picture, If you forget we dont forget,

torres is being treated like man utd would deploy michael owen in the team.
the only player capable of providing the through-ball is being shifted wide with mechanical players who are as slow as slugs deployed behind torres.
how's he going to score when chelsea rarely get on the by-line to deliver crosses? how's he going to score when torres has only been put through on goal just 5 times since he joined chelsea?

How many times was Demba ba put through to score 15 goals in half a season. If Demba Ba who wasnt even considered first choice striker fought his way into prominence now A failed striker is telling a team to revamp to accomodate him?

Well Torres personally said the lack of Spanish speakers and noise level disturbs him.

from the chalkboard you showed there, there's no way a striker who plays on the shoulder of the last defender would flourish.
chelsea's pace is slower than the revolution of the earth. i cannot imagine hernandez playing for chelsea, he would have been considered a flop cos it takes 5 minutes for lampard to spot a striker running through on goal.

It was because lampard was playing, lampard is out Now whats the next excuse? If lampard had played the last 3 games against newly promoted sides, I am sure all the blame would have been on lampard, Now he didnt play and Torres could barely get a shot on target.

i am sure villas-boas knows what the problem is but probably he's not a fan of torres. . . . .he wants roman abramovic to cut losses on fernando torres.

Ok We are making progress gradually, Its no longer Drogba, no longer Lampard, No longer the language, nor the noise level of London not even Spiritual cos David luiz delivered Torres yesterday Now its the coach who isnt a big fan of Torres

Hmm the plot thickens

i don't have a coaching badge but i can turn torres to the most prolific striker in the league if i manage chelsea for the rest of the season.
there was an opinion poll on redcafe 2 weeks ago. a staggering 60% said they would swap torres for rooney without any hesitation.
astute observers who know how dangerous torres can be know he's being left out of the loop in chelsea.
the system chelsea play and the misuse of the supporting cast is the reason torres is misfiring in chelsea.

Thats why 60% of those on redcafe are not coaches, Torres was firing blanks for Chelsea, Firing blanks for Spain two teams who play 2 distinct styles

nateevs:

@Dayo.

Like I told you, I won't be getting a lot into these arguments of Torres.
Look at the heat map. This is not a case of strikers finding space.
This is a case of no balls into the box in the first place.

We just don't have players who look to provide quality balls into the box.
When a team constantly puts balls into the box, bone Torres, even other players will get a sniff at goal and force saves off the goalie. Right now though, this is not happening.

This is a team issue and as far as I am concerned any striker will struggle to score goals.
Even Danny is no longer scoring.

IIRC, You posited some weeks back that Lampard was the one hindering these balls from finding Torres is that right?

Now Lampard is still out injured and same thing, Torres cant score

Why would players put the ball into the box when Torres doesnt even get into these positions, is it just to pump the ball and keeper makes routine catches?

Put Drogba(at 28-31yrs) or any decent striker(Demba Ba) in that number 9 and you would see balls coming into the box.

Danny is no longer scoring too which makes Torres barreness more pronounced.

You remember sometime back when you told us that Torres job is to keep the shape and not necesarily score goals?
How is that shape keeping panning out?

dayokanu:

This was the same person who argued that playing Drogba was what stopped Torres from getting into his stride and even quoted Ancelotti that Drogba needed to be sold for Torres to flourish. Now Drogba is out of the picture, If you forget we dont forget,

yes, drogba in the sense that torres is often left on the bench when drogba is fit. i then said chelsea should sell drogba. . . . .play torres as the arrowhead and play mata behind torres. drogba is out of the picture but torres is still being played without a good supporting cast behind him. an intelligent player who can find a pass quicker ought to be played behind torres. . . . .lampard, ramirez, meirelez and other quacks are not good enough.

How many times was Demba ba put through to score 15 goals in half a season. If Demba Ba who wasnt even considered first choice striker fought his way into prominence now A failed striker is telling a team to revamp to accomodate him?

at least 8 of those 15 league goals were scored from the penalty spot and direct freekicks. if torres was given the task to bury from the spot, i am sure he would be in double digits by now. besides, demba ba is a physical striker. whether he gets the ball in front of the defence or he beats an offside trap is immaterial to him. he's almost a young drogba.

torres is not that sort of striker, i am afraid. fernando torres is like a taller michael owen.

Well Torres personally said the lack of Spanish speakers and noise level disturbs him.

which is why he needs mata behind him. . . like gerrard was behind torres.
the quicker gerrard and alonso supplied torres, the more goals he scored under benitez.
whereas in chelsea, no traditional wingers. . . . .chelsea rarely put crosses in. bosingwa has lost his ability to cross and ashley cole is just ashley cole these days. he's only arsed once in a month to put good performance.

It was because lampard was playing, lampard is out Now whats the next excuse? If lampard had played the last 3 games against newly promoted sides, I am sure all the blame would have been on lampard, Now he didnt play and Torres could barely get a shot on target.

Ok We are making progress gradually, Its no longer Drogba, no longer Lampard, No longer the language, nor the noise level of London not even Spiritual cos David luiz delivered Torres yesterday Now its the coach who isnt a big fan of Torres
Hmm the plot thickens

argue like a man functioning on brain fluids not the one whose brain is powered by diesel.
what has no longer drogba, no longer lampard got to do with this? we are saying torres should get the ball quicker, you are telling us no lampard no drogba.
do you shyte from your mouth?

Thats why 60% of those on redcafe are not coaches, Torres was firing blanks for Chelsea, Firing blanks for Spain two teams who play 2 distinct styles

--he did not fire blanks for liverpool.
--chelsea bought him because of his goal scoring prowess in liverpool.
--chelsea bought torres because he's scored more goals against chelsea than any other striker in the league.
--common sense then dictates chelsea should use him in the same way liverpool used him when torres scored good number of goals.

if that logic still evades you, i suggest you add some cyanide to your eba this evening and die quietly.

This is why I do not get into these arguments.
Things start to fly about the place and tons of stuff you never said start to circulate and you spend ages trying to correct or defend them.

I will say this once and for all.

Firstly,
I never said Lampard was preventing the balls from getting in the box.
I said Lamps is one of the reasons. I said I'd rather a midfield with someone with guile and trickery who has an eye for quality pass, chooses to take as their primary responsibility and concentrate less on getting into the box. This midfielder, we currently do not have. For that reason, the absence of Lampard will/should not create a massive difference. So that assertion is wrong.


Secondly,
The shape-keeper thing. This phrase emanated from a discussion we had about balance of play rather than scoring of goals. In that discussion, I attempted to describe how Torres gives more balance to the team's set-up over Drogba and how his presence prevents the team from losing shape going forward. Obviously, the use of that word shape was either wrong in the context or others (especially you) have taken to mockery because Torres has not scored. Whichever the case, I didn't/never intended the statement to mean giving balance is more important than scoring goals. So can we kindly leave this to rest now?



My concern is how we are playing as a team and how many chances we are creating, how many problems we cause in the box, how many saves we force the keeper to make. The problems we have are bigger than Torres not scoring. We had this lethargic play even when Torres was getting 5mins and 10mins.

nateevs:

This is why I do not get into these arguments.
Things start to fly about the place and tons of stuff you never said start to circulate and you spend ages trying to correct or defend them.

I will say this once and for all.

Firstly,
I never said Lampard was preventing the balls from getting in the box.
I said Lamps is one of the reasons. I said I'd rather a midfield with someone with guile and trickery who has an eye for quality pass, chooses to take as their primary responsibility and concentrate less on getting into the box. This midfielder, we currently do not have. For that reason, the absence of Lampard will/should not create a massive difference. So that assertion is wrong.

mata fits that bill as far as i am concerned but he has not been deployed appropriately.

giggs, scholes, ozil, nasri, van der vaart, david silva, modric, etc earn their stripes in that art. . . .
elusive players who you can never 2nd-guess their next move.
villas-boas needs brain-oxygen.

Make una leave story. What we are hearing now is that Torres cant score unless you give him come-chop. Even me would plunder 30 goals a season if you put me through one-on-one.

Ibime:

Make una leave story. What we are hearing now is that Torres cant score unless you give him come-chop. Even me would plunder 30 goals a season if you put me through one-on-one.

if it's that easy, why aren't you a professional then?
inzaghi has no visible skills than to beat offside traps and score. . . . .do you know how much pippo is worth?

coogar:

yes, drogba in the sense that torres is often left on the bench when drogba is fit. i then said chelsea should sell drogba. . . . .play torres as the arrowhead and play mata behind torres. drogba is out of the picture but torres is still being played without a good supporting cast behind him. an intelligent player who can find a pass quicker ought to be played behind torres. . . . .lampard, ramirez, meirelez and other quacks are not good enough.

Now your prayer has been answered Torres no longer starts from the bench, He plays most games and in the last few outings against recently promoted Norwich, QPR and Swansea and still he fires blank

at least 8 of those 15 league goals were scored from the penalty spot and direct freekicks. if torres was given the task to bury from the spot, i am sure he would be in double digits by now. besides, demba ba is a physical striker. whether he gets the ball in front of the defence or he beats an offside trap is immaterial to him. he's almost a young drogba

.

Demba Ba has scored 2 penalties only So that means he has scored 13 pure goals While Torres has scored 3 in the same time frame.

torres is not that sort of striker, i am afraid. fernando torres is like a taller michael owen.

Michael Owen gets into scoring positions and doesnt miss from inside the box. Torres cant seem to hit water even if thrown from a boat

which is why he needs mata behind him. . . like gerrard was behind torres.
the quicker gerrard and alonso supplied torres, the more goals he scored under benitez.
whereas in chelsea, no traditional wingers. . . . .chelsea rarely put crosses in. bosingwa has lost his ability to cross and ashley cole is just ashley cole these days. he's only arsed once in a month to put good performance.

He needs mata behind him to perform? Someone that has Mata time 1000 behind him in Spain. in person of Fabregas, iniesta, Xavi and Busquets yet still couldnt score to save his life.

It was because lampard was playing, lampard is out Now whats the next excuse? If lampard had played the last 3 games against newly promoted sides, I am sure all the blame would have been on lampard, Now he didnt play and Torres could barely get a shot on target.

argue like a man functioning on brain fluids not the one whose brain is powered by diesel.
what has no longer drogba, no longer lampard got to do with this? we are saying torres should get the ball quicker, you are telling us no lampard no drogba.
do you shyte from your mouth?

You were the one on this forum who told us Lampard is the reason why Torres isnt scoring.

--he did not fire blanks for liverpool.
--chelsea bought him because of his goal scoring prowess in liverpool.
--chelsea bought torres because he's scored more goals against chelsea than any other striker in the league.
--common sense then dictates chelsea should use him in the same way liverpool used him when torres scored good number of goals.

In 2010/2011 season He played half for Liverpool and half for Chelsea scored 10 goals in the whole season

In 2011/2012 with 3/4 of the season gone he has an incredible 3 goals.

nateevs:

This is why I do not get into these arguments.
Things start to fly about the place and tons of stuff you never said start to circulate and you spend ages trying to correct or defend them.

I will say this once and for all.

Firstly,
I never said Lampard was preventing the balls from getting in the box.
I said Lamps is one of the reasons. I said I'd rather a midfield with someone with guile and trickery who has an eye for quality pass, chooses to take as their primary responsibility and concentrate less on getting into the box. This midfielder, we currently do not have. For that reason, the absence of Lampard will/should not create a massive difference. So that assertion is wrong.

Does Mata not have the trickery you so desired? You even said the reason why Mata hasnt been producing for Torres was because of lampard interference

Secondly,
The shape-keeper thing. This phrase emanated from a discussion we had about balance of play rather than scoring of goals. In that discussion, I attempted to describe how Torres gives more balance to the team's set-up over Drogba and how his presence prevents the team from losing shape going forward. Obviously, the use of that word shape was either wrong in the context or others (especially you) have taken to mockery because Torres has not scored. Whichever the case, I didn't/never intended the statement to mean giving balance is more important than scoring goals. So can we kindly leave this to rest now?

Now with Torres keeping the shape for the past 4 weeks, Do you think he prevents Chelsea from losing shape when going forward vs Swansea, QPR, Norwich etc

Would you say there has been more balance in the team play in the last 4 weeks cos the results from that period suggests theres fire on the mountain.

My concern is how we are playing as a team and how many chances we are creating, how many problems we cause in the box, how many saves we force the keeper to make. The problems we have are bigger than Torres not scoring. We had this lethargic play even when Torres was getting 5mins and 10mins.

When Torres wasnt playing, the play was lethargic but somehow the players on then were able to score from the few chances.

Either from Lampard rebounds, Sturridge trial and error or Drogbas bullying

Nowadays everything has ground to a halt just because Torres has disrupted everything.

3 games vs modest teams(Norwich, QPR, Swansea) 2 goals: 1 controversial penalty, 1 last minute deflection

dayokanu:

Now your prayer has been answered Torres no longer starts from the bench, He plays most games and in the last few outings against recently promoted Norwich, QPR and Swansea and still he fires blank

where was mata played in these games? behind torres?
if the answer is no - please don't bother.

Demba Ba has scored 2 penalties only So that means he has scored 13 pure goals While Torres has scored 3 in the same time frame.

demba ba: 1453 mins, 15 goals, 1 assist, 8 key passes
nando torres: 1017 mins, 2 goals, 2 assists, 13 key passes.

anyone looking at that statistics alone knows torres is not an arrowhead for chelsea.
he has the same stats of a central midfielder.

Michael Owen gets into scoring positions and doesnt miss from inside the box. Torres cant seem to hit water even if thrown from a boat

michael owen got fed with quality balls to help him score.

He needs mata behind him to perform? Someone that has Mata time 1000 behind him in Spain. in person of Fabregas, iniesta, Xavi and Busquets yet still couldnt score to save his life.

quick passing, mr dayokanu.
spain don't play direct football and they are 5 times slower than chelsea.

It was because lampard was playing, lampard is out Now whats the next excuse? If lampard had played the last 3 games against newly promoted sides, I am sure all the blame would have been on lampard, Now he didnt play and Torres could barely get a shot on target.

i know you have the propensity to be daft but you are stretching the borders this evening.
lampard playing or not playing is not necessarily the key. when lampard does not play, who fills the role of lampard? is it mata or the other mechanical players?

You were the one on this forum who told us Lampard is the reason why Torres isnt scoring.

of course, lampard occupies the same role gerrard played when torres was in liverpool.
if lampard does not play and an intelligent and elusive player(mata) plays there, torres would flourish.
but as it is, in the absence of lampard, names like ramirez, meirelez, malouda and other robots pop up behind torres.
can those ones play any intelligent pass to set a striker through on goal?

In 2010/2011 season He played half for Liverpool and half for Chelsea scored 10 goals in the whole season
In 2011/2012 with 3/4 of the season gone he has an incredible 3 goals.

injury ravaged season of 2010/11?
the season before that, torres scored 18 goals + 3 assists in 22 appearances for liverpool.

why hasn't chelsea copied that blueprint that made torres a force in liverpool?
are you this daft to see the crux of this issue?

Xavi, Iniesta, Silva and the embarrassment of talent in Spain's midfield also lack the guile/technique/vision to put Torres one on one with the goalie/last defender. . . I laugh in braille!!!

coogar:

this issue has been over-flogged and yet charlatans like dayokanu, ibime and bluediva still won't get it.

dayokanu thinks the absence of drogba would suddenly make torres score goals? how daft can someone be to think that way.
like i have been saying for more than a month - if the chelsea coaching crew would not play to torres' strength, he's a waste of space in chelsea.
if i purchase a player worth £50m, common sense dictates i build the entire team around my marquee signing, but that isn't the case in chelsea.

torres is being treated like man utd would deploy michael owen in the team.
the only player capable of providing the through-ball is being shifted wide with mechanical players who are as slow as slugs deployed behind torres.
how's he going to score when chelsea rarely get on the by-line to deliver crosses? how's he going to score when torres has only been put through on goal just 5 times since he joined chelsea?

from the chalkboard you showed there, there's no way a striker who plays on the shoulder of the last defender would flourish.
chelsea's pace is slower than the revolution of the earth. i cannot imagine hernandez playing for chelsea, he would have been considered a flop cos it takes 5 minutes for lampard to spot a striker running through on goal.
i am sure villas-boas knows what the problem is but probably he's not a fan of torres. . . . .he wants roman abramovic to cut losses on fernando torres.


i don't have a coaching badge but i can turn torres to the most prolific striker in the league if i manage chelsea for the rest of the season.
there was an opinion poll on redcafe 2 weeks ago. a staggering 60% said they would swap torres for rooney without any hesitation.
astute observers who know how dangerous torres can be know he's being left out of the loop in chelsea.
the system chelsea play and the misuse of the supporting cast is the reason torres is misfiring in chelsea.

In other words we have a clueless manager who knows nothing about man management.
I will accept all the mumbo jumbo if that is what this highlighted statement means.

ritchboy:

Xavi, Iniesta, Silva and the embarrassment of talent in Spain's midfield also lack the guile/technique/vision to put Torres one on one with the goalie/last defender. . . I laugh in braille!!!

there must be 1001 youtube clips on the webspace. . . .
show me one video torres was put through one on one with a goalkeeper and he fluffed his lines. . . . .

you charlatans have forgotten every team defends deep against spain. watch the world cup once again and see how teams like germany and even holland played 7 defenders against spain. where's the space to run into? even when these teams come out to play, spain would keep toying with the ball, short passes, slow paced, indirect football. how's that supposed to help a striker like torres?


[flash=425,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q_PRgXmsX0?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"[/flash]

why was it so easy for torres to sodomize phillip lahm there? it was because the pass came to him quick and the pass set him through on goal.
that is nando torres' game. . . .if you are expecting him to score by receiving passes on his chest while backing 4 defenders like drogba and demba usually do then y'all are on a long thing.

BlueDiva:

In other words we have a clueless manager who knows nothing about man management.
I will accept all the mumbo jumbo if that is what this highlighted statement means.

it's looking like it. . . . .

This excuses you make for torres make a bit of sense on paper, then you think about it and the idiocy of it becomes apparent.

You say they don't pass the ball quick enough, don't release him one on one etc, but like the Spain example you cited where teams defend deep, that means torres is not useful except the team he plays for play gung ho attacking football and the other team is foolish enough to play same.

Why do you keep requiring that certain condition s must be in place before a well paid professional footballer can perform?
that's equal to saying i can only study and pass an exam in a air conditioned room!
as a professional he is mandated to adapt. The example of Filippo inzaghi you vote is even more eye opening. He played in the Italian league, where defending is an art and actually applauded, he played for the best team, mist teams are guaranteed to defend against them, how come he scored regularly?


Going by what you keep saying Torres is liability you keep on the bench and play only when the moon,and stars align. The other team must be foolish to come out, not press the ball or mark and also leave torress in a one on one situation with their defenders, else we should not expect goals? Given those requirements even emile heskey would be a world beater.

So torres cannot adapt or change style of play to get by? That the team is not doing enough for him is bullshyte, is he doing enough for the team upfront?

4llerbuntu God go make u bigger Burr,I go advice U mk u leave Mr GEJ Coogar alone cos,na retarded rat shyte wey want us to believe somtin else wit him englishcoogarism long letters and insults on every1 wey no dey love struck wit Useless FT.

Torres has past it he's short on confidence, if u watched the game against swansea u will know what am saying he did'nt make more than 20-25 touches against swansea he is always out of position, though he still has the skills and techniques. The 4th position can only be guranteed if other teams are self-destructing which Arsenal is doing at the moment. @ Mr Coogar everybody know Torres is waste of money execpt you. if you so much like him why don't we swap Torres for Rooney or welbeck.