*** the people of Cameroun are "feeling" the heat according to you

jp philips:

I think i understand Al harem and jason's confusion your confusion was orchestrated by Ruben Abiati and GEJ by proxy.
How many of you have researched on this subsidy issue before taking a stand?There are more misnomers than facts surrounding this subsidy brouhaha.

First, the Govt said the economy will collapse, ridiculous indeedsecondly, the Govt said oil importers are a 'cabal', nearly fell off my seat.

Fellow Nigerians, there are no cabals, in 2009 the scarcity of petroleum products became intense and the Govt admitted that Nnpc through its subsidiary PPMC has failed Nigerians by their inability to meet up with the supply of pet. Products and that phenomenon gave rise to licensing of some people to 'assist' the Nnpc in doing their job for which they are paid for.

Please don't forget that hitherto, Nnpc has been doing the importation and refining themselves before corruption eroded their common sense.These importers went abroad and came back with a price Nnpc is already aware of comprising of logistics, storage and administrative costs, these were quantified before they arrived at a price.
The FG now fixed a price tag of 65naira on Pms and agreed to be reimbursing the importers the balance not oblivious of the fact that the landing cost is higher than the stipulated price

To my greatest chagrin, the Jonathan’s administration woke up and termed them 'cabals' who are fleecing the nation.Assuming Ruben Abiati goes abroad to buy a TM underwear for 1k and decides to sell it 1.5k adding purchase price  plus logistics plus profit and the Govt tells him to sell at 900 naira, wont he ask for the 600naira balance? 

When the incompetent NNPC agrees to reimburse him, then he has become a cabal stealing from the GOvt?

Are we this docile? If Nnpc lived up to their responsibility, we won’t have need for the importers in the first place.

There is no doubt that the subsidy regime is met with corrupt practices, is it not the responsibility of the govt to clamp down on those malfeasance?

The only solution that came to the minds of this disgruntled PDP administration is to remove subsidy into-to not minding its inflationary consequences.

This is the si1liest approach any human being with brain if they have one can summon.

Thirdly,

Jonathan insulted the intelligence of Nigerians telling us  that we don't benefit from this subsidy except for the importers and he had the unbridled temerity to be advertising it on NTA saying the rich are getting richer.
This people are demons.

When Ruben abiati's mother goes to the market to buy vegetable at a price, does he not know that the seller included cost of transportation to that price?
So when the transporter buys PMS @ 65naira and fixes his price based on that, he says his mother did not benefit from the subsidy that guaranteed the price in the first place?
In  generator driven economy like ours?It is either Ruben Abiati and his employers are drunks or they think that Nigerians are m0rons.

I feel sorry for people that think that competition will crash the deregulated price erroneously juxtaposing it with GSM.
Do you know that the price of crude being the raw material for refined pet. Products are sold at the same price in the whole world?

If you agree to this, then, even if you deregulate and license 5million importers the product will still be expensive because crude itself is expensive. You will still need to subsidize it to 65naira. Exactly why deregulation of diesel in part did not work.
The only reason you have not bought diesel @ 200naira is because there are so many illegal refineries who bunker crude, settle JTF and refine diesel at a lower price.

This people still pose a great threat to the importers who buy at a higher price that is why you get diesel @ 140naira elsewhere but in the delta i buy as low as 70naira.At this verge you will not over rule the fact that these unscrupulous elements contribute to the availability of diesel, if you are in doubt, anywhere you see cheap diesel, ask the dealer the source of his consignment If he is honest he will tell you the truth, when i was told, i took an hr 20mins boat ride to a remote village in the delta between Belema and Kola communities and i saw the local refinery myself.

I will post the pictures later.Conduct a chemical test on those cheap diesels if you are not convinced and you will realize a lot of additives are missing.Sounds incredible but those are the realities on ground.You now know why many importers in the delta hardly have diesel.

I still feel sorry for those who think the Govt should build more refineries, that will not solve the problem either because there is no cheap crude to supply these refineries.

The oil production of Nigeria stands at 2.37 million barrels of crude daily. Nigeria get this crude in a JV (joint venture) with IOC's (international oil companies) and the Nigeria's cut stand btw 55% to 60% of the lot, if we go by 60% thenThat gives a total of 1.4m barrels daily.If we average the crude price from 2009 till date, the price falls close to 100usd/bbl.
In that case, Nigeria makes 140,000,000usd daily from this JV.
Nigeria has a policy called DSO (domestic supply obligation) which mandates 250,000bbl/d of this crude to be refined and consumed locally,In monetary terms, the Nigerian govt is giving us 25,000,000usd worth of crude to refine.Our three refineries at optimum capacity utilizes 450,000bbl/d which gives 45,000,000usd in monetary terms in other words, the price of raw material in this case, crude, accrued to our refineries comes at 45m usd per day, if you add refining cost and profit of 6usd per bbl,
The total cost becomes 270,000,000usd per day.There is no way you can refine that crude at that price and sell it 65naira/l and make profit.

Meanwhile, once we mark out that 45m usd worth of crude for our refineries (assuming they are working at optimum capacity), the govt has already lost 45m usd from their 140m usd daily earnings (which will affect budget implementation) and after refining will still spend more money to subsidize it to 65naira/l

With this analogy, you will agree with me that if all our refineries are working optimally, the govt will spend 3times our present day subsidy to bring the pump price down to 65naira/l.

So, for those of you clamoring for refineries should be careful what you wish for because there is no cheap crude for you to refine.I have argued abinitio that the sales of other derivatives of crude will bring down the cost of most sort PMS,DPK etc but after doing some feasibility studies, i realized i was dead wrong.

I further argued that to make cheaper crude available for our refineries, the Govt should reduce the price at which it is supplied unfortunately, the senate mandated the then GMD of Nnpc that the DSO must be sold at international crude price.

This i believe was proposed for the following reasons:

1 the refineries are working below capacity so what the heck does Nnpc use the crude for?

2, there is a benchmark on crude price for budget implementation.With these reasons, any existing or yet to exist refinery in Nigeria will get crude at a high price and must need subsidy to sell at 65naira/l, at this cross road, the then GMD of Nnpc decided that all crude should be exported and subsidy be paid on imported products.

Guess he was left with no choice.At this verge, i must reiterate here that competition amongst importers will only crash the profit margin but not cost price.

Even if every Nigerian becomes an importer of pet. Prods, we can never change the fact that crude in the int l market is already expensive before thinking of refined prod.

So we must need subsidy to make profit.Before this issue of subsidizing petroleum products can be addressed,You must have the following at the back of your minds:

1, Nigeria pegs a benchmark on crude prices to enable it implement budget. This stands at 75usd/bbl. And this crude is sort from the JV.

2, if crude price exceed the benchmark above, Nigeria makes excess crude revenue (ECR)

3, conversely, if we make excess crude revenue, the price of subsidy on refined products shoot up.With the above analogy,
One can argue that the ECR be used to subsidize imported petroleum products since both are a function of each other unfortunately in Nigeria, it comes with its own challenges.By law, the constitution clearly states that

"all revenue accrued to the FG be shared amongst the three tiers of Govt".

This alone makes it illegal for the FG to keep the ECR to itself for whatever reason.This is where the wahala started, during GEJ's campaign, he astronomically increased workers salary without consulting the state Governors,most Governors have refused to pay on the grounds that they cannot afford it.
On that grounds Taraba, jigawa and some other states have a genuine case.

With the above development, the states started scrambling for funds and remembered the ECR and insisted it must be shared to enable them pay the new wage and develop infrastructures.

The FG had no choice but to capitulateWith this development, the FG is left with little or no choice.The way forward:In the short run:While the FG is consulting, they must consider these options,

1,  identify and tackle the corruption prevalent in the subsidy regime. That will push down the cost of the subsidy in the first place.Like i said in April, no matter how sincere GEJ think his administration is, he cannot make any reasonable progress in the face of corruption,

2, the power projects must come upstream before removing subsidy, this will reduce the demand on pet. Products to a very great extent.

3, Nigeria must accommodate Gas export, port duties and other forms of revenue in their budget implementation policies

.4,  Govt must never invest an extra kobo in our moribund refineries, by doing otherwise, the cost price of the refineries will rise to an extent that it will no longer be attractive to investors or will prolong their repayment plan.Thereby making it very capital intensive.

5, Instead of deceiving Nigerians with their cabal bullshit and deluding them that they don't benefit from this subsidy, the FG should channel that propaganda with intense lobbying to the senate,NLC and civil society organizations to stop the state governors from demanding for the ECR, this can be achieved by the FG asking the state to pay whatever increment they can afford for the workers that way the ECR will be used for subsidizing pet. Products.

In the long run:

1 Nigeria must seek local production capacity.It is no longer news that Nnpc and its subsidiaries have failed woefully in meeting the needs of the Nigerian people.Nnpc through its subsidiary Npdc and Ngc are saddled with the responsibility of the above for oil and gas production respectively,

but as i write, the current production of NPDC stands at a paltry 90,000bbl/day which is a huge failure for an agency set up 23yrs ago,The IOC's has made us believe that it will cost less than 12usd to extract 1bbl of our oil.

The Management of NPDC must be reshuffled and if possible experts brought in on contract basis to improve NPDC's productionThese experts must be placed on targets appraised by milestones. in ogoni land for instance, Anglo dutch has a lot of abandoned production facilities and marginal wells and others scattered all over the country,

these can be bought by NPDC with the money FG want to waste on refineries to improve production,If NPDC can extract oil at 12usd/bbl and make a little profit, with this cheap oil available,

Nigeria will have no reason going to the JV. This cheap crude will attract investors to build refineries and create jobs,A 250,000bbl/d refinery will cost a little above 5b usd, dangote alone can afford two of those only if NPDC can guarantee cheap oil. This is why no investor is coming to build refineries.

A crude price of 18usd/bbl from NPDC will guarantee pump price of less than 22naira per litre of pms from these refineries.With this plan,

By the end of this Administration, NPDC will have robust production capacity and the refineries will guarantee steady refined products.

These refineries shouldn't be operated by the Govt for any reason.The FG will generate revenue from both ends, export of crude and export refined products and the production of NPDC must be increasing periodically.Once the above takes effect, there won’t be any need to be paying subsidy because pump price will be around 23naira/l and inflation will reduce by 40‰.

Now, how competent is Allison Madueke and iweala if they can’t figure this out?

To think of removing subsidy at this stage where there is no electricity and high corruption rate will be tantamount to economic suicide.

Please if the both of you want a trial and error approach to economic solutions please try the next country or preferably Haiti.

What iweala forgot is that in the face of inflation the cost of running Govt projects will be high, All Govt contractors will definitely come back for contract variations or Abandon those projects.

As a sound economist, she should tell Nigerians the value of 1.3 trillion naira ( she intends to save on subsidy removal) in the face of 60% inflation and how many projects Nigerians will benefit from the subsidy removal.

If you remove subsidy and the money disappears, then it is a NO NO for Nigerians

You tried but failed to mention PPT which is 85%. Also if they need more money why didn't the pressure the NA to pass the PIB?Also if we had stable electricity the cost spent on subsidy will drastically reduce.

dere is something i cant understand about BEAF,is it that u dont hv any work doin or u are media adviser to GEJ on NAIRALAND affairs?dat u are always on nairaland nd come nd VOMIT any kind of useless trash just to cover-up for ur master's incompetency.:::NO OFFENCE ABEG::::.:,

x-fire:

Beaf, I am not here to speak either for nor against you. But really, you have become so popular in nairaland that everybody wants to get quick fame by insulting you or calling you names. I guess a lot of people see it as a honour when you reply their comments. Beaf, enjoy your moment in nairaland, I envy you

Lol! Thanks for your observations many people have a rather strange way of responding to logical cut and thrust. I am flattered that you think it has to do with popularity, but I think it is the manifestion of more of a serious Nigerian problem; the type that see's grown men slapping poor people in the streets and bellowing at others, "do you no who I am? I will jail you, your wife and your children, your entire family!"

It is the unfortunate Nigerian disease of over aggression to animal degrees.
It is born from the chaotic nature of our country, where the FG is almighty and there is no representation of the common man. In the jungle, the biggest animal thrives; but to be an animal is the opposite of what it is to be human and we can see the resulting shambles around us.
It is mainly those with psychotic traits that have been able to thrive on the chaos that sane people abhor, rise to the top and make life into a chaotic soup. Up till recently, Nigeria has seen thieves and murderers rise to the highest echelons of society. NO MORE!

They see their empires sinking, so let them fight for all they are worth, their time is past.

Phew!

Now available for sale in different sizes
-Bicycle

-camel

-horse

-donkey

we can also train and equip ur dog,goat,ram etc to carry u around. they all don't ever use fuel or gas.

Visit us at our office,

No1, Oil Sudsidy Road,

Alison Madueke Juntion,

Goodluck Close.

Off Okonjo-Iweala Street.

By Labaran maku avenue,

Sanusi Lamido District Area,

Abuja Or call 080-ABUJA-GEJ,

Welcome to the year of transformation and fresh air!

Beaf:

One can only imagine what would happen to Benin Republic where practically all filling stations have closed down, because of smuggling. You can basically only buy smuggled fuel there. It must be the same in Burkinafasso and Togo (to a lesser extent)l.

You sound like you are being tickled by some dude, if Nigeria was truly a giant of Africa, they could have been working to help those countries that you just mentioned. And you think this post will help you and your oga justify the illegal fuel subsidy removal if there was any

http://www.naijapals.com/modules/naijapals/nigeria?topic=88220.10;wap2 this is a good news, check it out

I have not put mouth on this matter, now I am talking ( I am sure some people will find reasons to insult me)

forget all the long winded analysis, market forces are more powerful than any cabal, anti-corruption measures or even border controls.

It is totally irrational (especially in a country like Nigeria all though it would even happen in the most honest societies) to expect any importer to import any product and be paid by the government for anything he or she imports, ie I import cement at $30 a bag, government say I must sell at $10 a bag and they will give me back my $20 difference (plus some profit for my effort) - how many bags will I import? the officials who count the bags, how many bags will they record? the government officials who make the payments to me what do I give them to ensure I get paid? of course all the figures will be inflated, it's free money

Sorry but the whole idea of subsidy is a fallacy.

You think the government is stupid? removal in fell swoop rather than phased removal - they won't do that because each increase will bring it's own protest, rather than have three separate protests, government wants to deal with one period of protest.

Removal over the new year holiday, of course when most of the nation is on holiday, many people still in the village, as such organised or spontaneous protests is difficult

NLC, etc - these have all been settled even before the removal was announced, they will organize a few days of strikes and then all will go back to normal.

Luxury buses, Trailers, 911 lorries, molue, BRT, factory generators - all these use diesel (N160 per litre- deregulated for almost 10 years), when last did i hear somebody smuggled diesel to republic of Benin or Cameroun?

Sorry guys, the subsidy removal is tough but necessary, I like many people will suffer from it, my gen gas gone from N1000 a day to N2000 a day

I believe in the policy GEJ on fuel subsidy but it is not good for us now.
If he can answer Femi fani Kayode's question about OBJ left federal money.Then we wiil support your fuel subsidy programme.

EPOMA:

You sound like you are being tickled by some dude, if Nigeria was truly a giant of Africa, they could have been working to help those countries that you just mentioned. And you think this post will help you and your oga justify the illegal fuel subsidy removal if there was any

Maybe if you were president, Nigeria would have posted state trained and recognised smugglers to our border areas to ease the arduous smuggling tasks of our poor lil neighbours. Maybe the NNPC headquarters would even have been in Cotonou or Yaounde.

Now, I think you are tickling me.

People have to understand that Nigeria must be self-sufficient in fuel supply first before any other interest of neighboring countries. The subsidy is also benefiting these countries across the border with the different govt. It is time the subsidy has to go(already removed). People would soon understand how helpful the subsidy removal it can be to the economy of Nigeria.

*JONATHAN AND REMOVAL OF
FUEL SUBSIDY- NO GOOD CARE
FOR THE POOR MASSES.*
If I may say, our past
governments and Jonathan
have not shown much love to
the poor masses but a
camouflage, unlike in some
countries were the
government is trying to make
the rich and the poor alike. Some
years ago,
CNN correspondents went to
China to hear from the poor but
opinion of those
thought to be poor are not
because they said that
government cares for them.
According to Finance Minister,
Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, the fuel
subsidy is
actually benefited by a wealthy
few. The actual amount for PMS
is about *N*139
and then the government pays
up *N*74 to let the price fall to
*N*65. The *N
*74 is the amount paid by the
government as subsidy. Now, if
the subsidy is
removed, will the wealthy few
still enjoy this money? Yes of
course. They
will still sell their products at
*N*139, but this time, the
masses will
pay the money. Even if the PMS
rise to *N*160 or down to
*N*110, the
wealthy few will still make the
money and have their way.
The government, in an attempt
to have a win on its decision to
remove the
fuel subsidy has gone as far as
spending a whopping sum on
those who are
seen as a threat to its decision.
But there are many others who
are ready
to give their lives than allow this
removal of fuel subsidy.
*DANGERS THAT CAN ERUPT FROM
THIS REMOVAL OF FUELL
SUBSIDY*
*1. Fixed Income Recipients like
Civil Servants and Others will be
Hurt.*
Because while the price inflation
increases, their income doesn’t
increase,
therefore their income will have
less value. Because the price of
fuel has
increased, invariably the cost of
transportation, the prices of
goods and
services will increase too. Then
who will suffer this? The civil
servants
and some others in private
sectors suffer it because their
salaries remain
the same. Unless the President,
Governors, Private Sector will
promise
increment in the salaries of civil
servants and other workers in
private
sector. But if that is done, there
may be risk of monetary
inflation (i.e.
when there is a rise in the
quantity of money in an
economy).
*2. Risk of Inflation.*
Inflation hurts economy,
individuals and companies alike.
The pin-point
here is basically the price
inflation(i.e. when there is a rise
in the
general level of prices of goods
and services). Because the price
of fuel
has increased the cost of
transportation, the prices of
goods and services
will increase too. If the cost of
transportations, prices of goods
and
services increase, my fellow
Nigerians who will suffer this, if
not the
poor masses. It is time to bridge
the gap between the rich and
the poor in
this our noble country.
*3. Fear of Embezzlement,
Dishonesty, Mismanagement,
and Instability in
Government.*
The poor masses cannot trust
the government any longer
because the past
governments have raped their
trust. The people see the
government and the
politicians as embezzlers and
empirically I think this is true.
How can we
trust you now my President if
you will not follow their
footsteps? You have
to prove otherwise to the poor
masses before they can trust
the government
and politicians again. You might
be honest but what about other
government
officials, politicians who will
manage the proceeds from this?
*4. Eruption of Autocratic
Government*
The government is inviting the
spirit of Arab Springs with its
dogmatic
decision. In Nigeria, we practice
democracy, which was defined
by Abraham
Lincoln as the government of
the people, by the people and
for the people.
If the majority of the masses are
against this removal of fuel
subsidy why
should the government go on to
uphold it. Mr. President, the
masses employ
you to be there and work for
them. You are a ‘servant’ and
the masses are
the ‘employer’ as rightly pointed
out by late President Yar’adua.
We
elected you for our own
benefits. Do not alone decide for
us but we all
decide for ourselves for
common good. Our government
shouldn’t be
autocratic in policy but seek the
opinion of the masses in its
decision
making. This is clear evidence
that autocratic government is
cropping up in
Nigeria to rape our democratic
government. My fellow
Nigerians, let us say
no to this eruption.
*5. The Mind of the Initiators*
My president, what do you think
were in the mind of these noble
fuel
subsidy initiators? Don’t you
think it may be a way of helping
& showing
good care & love to the poor &
less privileged? Don’t you think
it’s a way
for the Nigerians to enjoy this
God’s gift of crude oil & other
natural
resources in our noble country,
which are not only to be
enjoyed by the
cartels & cabals. This is a country
where we have great
unemployment .A
person you went to school with
is been paid in millions because
he or she
has his or her way to the
government, while his or her
mates who are out
there unemployed even with
better results have nothing
doing. There is need
to revisit the past & know the
cause of things. The beginners
have
something in mind when
initiating this noble fuel subsidy.
Until we
transcend that stage, I don’t
think it is just to remove it now.
*6. Discouragement of the
Investors and Savings*
Many investors may be scared
to invest in Nigeria. Many
companies will have
to go out of business because
of the losses they may incur
during this
inflation and its effects. There
might be investors in area like
refinery
but what about other areas.
When many companies go out
of business,
unemployment will increase.
This is incomparable with
employment of the
prospective refineries by
investors. If it will work because
there are
insecurity, power failure, less
infrastructures etc. to welcome
and
accommodate these investors.
Saving money in the banks or
anywhere is
negatively effected and
discouraged because saving
money would mean
watching your cash decrease in
value day after day, so people
may tend to
spend the cash on something
else. The central bank and other
banks will
loss likewise.
*7. Our Value of Money in
Danger*
The increase in the price of fuel
brings increase in the prices of
goods
and services. This brings price
inflation thereby low value of
money is one
its negative effects.
*8. Currency Debasement and
Rising Prices of Imports*
When there is low value of
money and other negative
effects from this
inflation, it lowers the value of
our currency. If the currency is
debased,
then naira purchasing power in
the international market is
lower.
*POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVES.*
Why subsidy removal? Because
the government is trying to
liberalized the
market fire. I believe a
reasonable government will try
work on the system
before putting the load on the
innocent masses that are
already drowning in
poverty as a result of bad
government. I think the possible
thing to do is
to build refinery in 6 geo-
political zones. Think about
repairing our
refineries and stopping
importation of fuels since we
have these natural
resources in our country. Then
the poor masses may not feel
the pains of
fuel subsidy removal. The most
of what Jonathan was
promising to do with
the extra oil revenue were
already accommodated in the
budget even without
subsidy.
The government should engage
themselves in cutting down the
salaries,
allowances and other running
expenses of the top
government officials
especially the lawmakers from
the federal to the local
government. Imagine
a lawmaker going home with
more than *N*255,000,000 and
*N*224,000,000
yearly. Then you can calculate
this for a tenure(4yrs) or two
tenures(8yrs)
and multiply it with their
numbers(i.e. 109 senators& 306
house of
representatives) and see our
country’s trillions of naira in the
cartel’s
pockets while the poor masses
continue to suffer. The
government has no
plan or future for the poor
masses. Governor of Central
Bank, Sanusi Lamido
had last year said that
lawmakers consume 25 percent
of Nigeria overhead
budget.
According to Olusegun Mimiko,
the Governor of Ondo State,
Nigeria spends
about *N*24.5 trillion yearly
which is about $160 billions in
importation
of food. We have land
resources, human resources but
the government does
not care to utilize these to help
the poor masses. They only
inflict pains
on the masses by trying to
remove fuel subsidy. The
president should ask
himself this question “what if
there is no crude oil in Nigeria?”
The
biggest problem of our country
is not subsidy but corruption. If
the
president can deal with this
corruption especially among
politicians,
cartels, cabals and individuals,
he will surely have a lot of fund
to move
this noble country to a greater
height.
There is insecurity in the
country. Does this not occur to
the president
that it is effects of
unemployment of these
promising youths in the
country? Blessed are those who
know the cause of things
because cause has
effects. Instead of our
lawmakers debating on the
causes of the present
situation in our country and see
solution to it. They sat and
discussed
about the same-sex marriage
(gay) issue which has nothing
to do with African
Culture. The lawmakers should
have known that this cannot
work in Nigeria
because African moral values
and culture has no place for it. It
is a
deadly virus from the Western
World. My President and the
lawmakers, please
there are other issues to discuss
that is brutally effecting the
nation
like insecurity, unemployment,
corruption, electricity etc.
Finally, there are many ways to
better our economy and the
lives of the
people. The money to set-up
infrastructures, companies,
refineries etc must
not come from the proceeds of
fuel subsidy but can come
through other
means. Yes the removal of fuel
subsidy has its positives effects
but I
think it is not yet time to
remove it my president. Think
about the fate of
the poor people of Nigeria, think
about us the unemployed
youths. Where do
we get the money to buy goods
and services especially fuel if
the subsidy
is removed. Thanks
*OKAFOR KENNETH*
*Kenitho27@gmail.com*
<Kenitho27@gmail.com>
*08063457763*
*20 ST MICHEAL STR. ABAGANA,
P.O. BOX 243 ABAGANA,
ANAMBRA STATE, NIGERIA*

We know nigerians are good at corrupting everything but a well plan structure should be on ground to distribute fuel to the country and neighbouring countries instead of fuel subsidy removal.

@ IbroSaunks
Imagine beaf and gbawe in the same room.

Beaf go beat yeye and rubbish out of that mouth runner and local champion (inconsequential nairaland election). Gbawe will end up in hospital with a goatish aregbesola crazy beard.

@ x-firex
Beaf, I am not here to speak either for nor against you. But really, you have become so popular in nairaland that everybody wants to get quick fame by insulting you or calling you names. I guess a lot of people see it as a honour when you reply their comments. Beaf, enjoy your moment in nairaland, I envy you

Do not mind those little minds and pathetic losers, some of them even create similar username like his just to cry and sulk for attention. Oga Beaf enjoy the ride while it lasts.

Read some people's post like @faithin9ja @na_so @bombay and of cos , and believe there's still hope for Naija.

The problem is that we think like idealist, my questions r

1: Why should u keep implementing a policy that has been failing for decades; then tmoro the same protesters will be comparing Nigeria to Ghana

2, Nigerians know now that the choice now is either between increasing price marginally or removing deregulation totally. Why not remove it and give this country a chance (everybody will suffer). A free market is always the cheapest way to fight corruption. Thats why we should fight for govt to hands-off none critical aspects of our economy.

3. Unless we are fooling ourselves, we should know now that no govt will come and totally eradicate corruption in nigeria (unless s/he will kill 160 million people). Even if the person tried we will say /he is either loopsided or anti his hometown

4. Why manage border when US can't even effectively police theirs. Even with all the drones and tech.

5. Is it not folly that petrol prices will be same in lagos and zamfara. Any logical explanation, that whyy Kano is loudest cos they know they might be a little worse off

Comments

Even if govt spends all the proceeds, they can't stop foreign coys from investing in refineries (i.e if we have stable govt and Buhari no overthrow )

Why would nigeria develop when we strike when they want to deregulate Nepa but buy fuel for 500 a day for gen set

My 2 cents: I will say it to my brother (do not expect govt to do something for you, instead think of ways u can make it on ur own as no govt will ever immediately transform citizens) development is a slow and hardous process of doing the write thing.

My conclusion is that while Subsidy Removal was an ill timed solution, it is still a solution.
Arguments should be for spending and salary cuts by govt and political office holders not reintroduction of subsidy.

My opinion, feel free to refute. God Bless Naija

There is a big question on my mind while thinking about this subsidy issues. Like most Nigerians, I believe too that our economy cannot forever support subsidy on petroleum products the way it is been run by the GEJ govt. But I also believe that the spirit and passion of the removal is also completely wrong at this time considering the less than zero preparation of the government not to only cushion the effect but to provide alternatives to suffering Nigerians.
All these got me think and I found a big hole in the argument of govt. according to govt. sources some amount was budgeted for fuel subsidy last year but it was overpaid by about a trillion naira, that leaves the govt with some one trillion deficit.
But there is no amount budgeted for subsidy in this year's budget how is the govt expected to make savings? You can only make savings on what you have, how does okonjo iweala plan to make savings on what was not budgeted for?
Will the govt take what she used to pay back from the marketers? A quick answer to my mind confirms the fact that there was no subsidy in the first place. But not to live in my ignorance if that is the case, how does the govt plan to rake in savings of subsidy condering the fact that she will no longer monitor consumption. I need some answers please,

@Bodejohn

There is a big question on my mind while thinking about this subsidy issues. Like most Nigerians, I believe too that our economy cannot forever support subsidy on petroleum products the way it is been run by the GEJ govt. But I also believe that the spirit and passion of the removal is also completely wrong at this time considering the less than zero preparation of the government not to only cushion the effect but to provide alternatives to suffering Nigerians.
All these got me think and I found a big hole in the argument of govt. according to govt. sources some amount was budgeted for fuel subsidy last year but it was overpaid by about a trillion naira, that leaves the govt with some one trillion deficit.
But there is no amount budgeted for subsidy in this year's budget how is the govt expected to make savings? You can only make savings on what you have, how does okonjo iweala plan to make savings on what was not budgeted for?
Will the govt take what she used to pay back from the marketers? A quick answer to my mind confirms the fact that there was no subsidy in the first place. But not to live in my ignorance if that is the case, how does the govt plan to rake in savings of subsidy condering the fact that she will no longer monitor consumption. I need some answers please,

Sorry Bodejohn it appears you have missed the substantive point; when you pay anyone to bring something and sell at below cost, you then promise to reimburse the person, that person is bound to increase the number of items he says he has bought simply to get more money from you. The importers fake the amount of petrol they say they bring into the country, the government NNPC and her subsidiaries collude with the importers to falsify figures so there are much bigger payments. Every adult Nigerian knows that to get money from any government (or big private companies) you must give 'egunje' to see your payment.

Hence the $7billion (1 trillion naira) was probably paid for non-existent petrol.

With a free market anybody bringing petrol to the country is free to sell at any price he likes and not expect government to control the price or give him money.

When every Tom, Dick, Harry, Obi, Ayo and Musa start bringing petrol if you like you sell yours at N200 and I sell mine at N80 - the customer can then decide where to buy.

As such the country no longer needs to spend N1 trillion to give anyone to bring petrol, leaving that money for other things, that's the hopeful saving.

1 died in Ilorin, 2 down in kano, more counting!!!!. Esele, Owei Lakemfa etc MUST account for the blood of all these illiterate Nigerians. After collecting about 1billion naira from the Major marketers like Oando, ARS and co, they pocketed the money, sent their families abroad and sacrifice uninformed Nigerians.
All these wicked labour leaders know the truth- the gains of subsidy removal, but want to hide the truth from Nigerians.
since the SELFISH Nigerians are against subsidy removal, let Jonathan declare resource control. I can't see why the Niger Deltans will be suffering from Oil pollution, while the Northerners and the few Yorubas will be enjoying the oil proceeds alone. see CAMEROON have started feeling the impact of subsidy removal.
These anti- Niger Deltans really want to destablize this Jona's administration.
When Fashola and Oshiomole introduced taxation, people kicked against it initially, are they still complaining?
why are there so much bad bele for the Niger Deltan who has vowed to restore this country that has been crippled by the Yorubas and Hausas? Enough of all these nonsense.

faithin9ja:

@Bodejohn
[color=#006600][/color]


Sorry Bodejohn it appears you have missed the substantive point; when you pay anyone to bring something and sell at below cost, you then promise to reimburse the person, that person is bound to increase the number of items he says he has bought simply to get more money from you. The importers fake the amount of petrol they say they bring into the country, the government NNPC and her subsidiaries collude with the importers to falsify figures so there are much bigger payments. Every adult Nigerian knows that to get money from any government (or big private companies) you must give 'egunje' to see your payment.

Hence the $7billion (1 trillion naira) was probably paid for non-existent petrol.

With a free market anybody bringing petrol to the country is free to sell at any price he likes and not expect government to control the price or give him money.

When every Tom, Joystick, Harry, Obi, Ayo and Musa start bringing petrol if you like you sell yours at N200 and I sell mine at N80 - the customer can then decide where to buy.

As such the country no longer needs to spend N1 trillion to give anyone to bring petrol, leaving that money for other things, that's the hopeful saving.

The govt. made plans to pay for the subsidy in 2011, but there is plan to pay anybody in 2012 and the expected surplus money was not quoted in the budget, so what are they saving? i believe the savings, if there was any is already in the budget, so kolade and the rest are just going to Abuja for jamboree,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkRQjlSj2tE&feature=share

@ JP pHILLIPS.

You may recall that we had met on one thread where we argued intensively and extensively for and against deregulation. Your position then was very much different from your position now. At least going by your very first post on this thread. Its good to know that for those that are objective and willing enough to learn, Nairaland can be a very very useful forum.

But for fooooools like Beaf and the likes, let us just ignore them and hope that their fooly drives them to their destruction very soon.

God is such a merciful God. Otherwise, maggots like beaf should not, be alive by now.

faithin9ja:

I have not put mouth on this matter, now I am talking ( I am sure some people will find reasons to insult me)

forget all the long winded analysis, market forces are more powerful than any cabal, anti-corruption measures or even border controls.

It is totally irrational (especially in a country like Nigeria all though it would even happen in the most honest societies) to expect any importer to import any product and be paid by the government for anything he or she imports, ie I import cement at $30 a bag, government say I must sell at $10 a bag and they will give me back my $20 difference (plus some profit for my effort) - how many bags will I import? the officials who count the bags, how many bags will they record? the government officials who make the payments to me what do I give them to ensure I get paid? of course all the figures will be inflated, it's free money

Sorry but the whole idea of subsidy is a fallacy.

You think the government is silly? removal in fell swoop rather than phased removal - they won't do that because each increase will bring it's own protest, rather than have three separate protests, government wants to deal with one period of protest.

Removal over the new year holiday, of course when most of the nation is on holiday, many people still in the village, as such organised or spontaneous protests is difficult

NLC, etc - these have all been settled even before the removal was announced, they will organize a few days of strikes and then all will go back to normal.

Luxury buses, Trailers, 911 lorries, molue, BRT, factory generators - all these use diesel (N160 per litre- deregulated for almost 10 years), when last did i hear somebody smuggled diesel to republic of Benin or Cameroun?

Sorry guys, the subsidy removal is tough but necessary, I like many people will suffer from it, my gen gas gone from N1000 a day to N2000 a day

A government that wants to spend 1billion on food for two people, 200 million watering gardens,11 billion for foreign travels Dude this is more than subsidy removal, its injustice.
What has the president, ministers and senators sacrified?? They run one of the most expensive governments in the world yet GEJ is not ready to do anything about that.
In theory, subsidy removal is a good thing but in Nigeria, please, you talk of market forces but you forget that almost everything in Nigeria does not work with market forces e.g Barbers have a union that sets the price, same with bricklayers and even public transportation. To believe in market forces in Nigeria is like believing in father xmas

Leaders all over the world took pay cut but GEJ mba, and some people say we should embrace subsidy.

faithin9ja:

@Bodejohn
[color=#006600][/color]


Sorry Bodejohn it appears you have missed the substantive point; when you pay anyone to bring something and sell at below cost, you then promise to reimburse the person, that person is bound to increase the number of items he says he has bought simply to get more money from you. The importers fake the amount of petrol they say they bring into the country, the government NNPC and her subsidiaries collude with the importers to falsify figures so there are much bigger payments. Every adult Nigerian knows that to get money from any government (or big private companies) you must give 'egunje' to see your payment.

Hence the $7billion (1 trillion naira) was probably paid for non-existent petrol.

With a free market anybody bringing petrol to the country is free to sell at any price he likes and not expect government to control the price or give him money.

When every Tom, Joystick, Harry, Obi, Ayo and Musa start bringing petrol if you like you sell yours at N200 and I sell mine at N80 - the customer can then decide where to buy.

As such the country no longer needs to spend N1 trillion to give anyone to bring petrol, leaving that money for other things, that's the hopeful saving.

BodeJohn is very right, u r d one missing d point. Yes they gave N1 trillion out in 11months under GEJ, up from abt N600bn under Yar-adua (whn d price of crude was over $100/barrel) but that was from the budget, deficit and borrowings but since that money is not the 2012 budget where will the savings come from? You cant save what u dont have. This is my opinion please educate me if you know better.

SANCTO:

1 died in Ilorin, 2 down in kano,  more counting!!!!. Esele, Owei Lakemfa etc MUST account for the blood of all these illiterate Nigerians. After collecting about 1billion naira from the Major marketers like Oando, ARS and co, they pocketed the money, sent their families abroad and sacrifice uninformed Nigerians.
All these wicked labour leaders know the truth- the gains of subsidy removal, but want to hide the truth from Nigerians.
since the SELFISH Nigerians are against subsidy removal, let Jonathan declare resource control. I can't see why the Niger Deltans will be suffering from Oil pollution, while the Northerners and the few Yorubas will be enjoying the oil proceeds alone. see CAMEROON have started feeling the impact of subsidy removal.
These anti- Niger Deltans really want to destablize this Jona's administration.
When Fashola and Oshiomole introduced taxation, people kicked against it initially, are they still complaining?
why are there so much bad bele for the Niger Deltan who has vowed to restore this country that has been crippled by the Yorubas and Hausas? Enough of all these nonsense.

Nobody cares if the fisherman is from brass or argungu, all we care about is our well being, if he means so well for Nigerians why didn't he slash his own allowances by at least 70% if he truly believes in his "Suffer now, enjoy later" Ideology. Stop tribalizing the issue and open your eyes, this is not the time to remove subsidy.

@Faithin 9ja, beaf et al
does subsidy removal stop over inflated contracts that the so called money from subsidy removal will be used for??
does subsidy removal mean that the common man can apply for license to import petrol without knowing "somebody" or bribing an nnpc official?
does subsidy removal mean nobody will steal out of the money saved??

^
Abeg, learn what deregulation means so you don't ask such questions.

fork adict:

@ JP pHILLIPS.

You may recall that we had met on one thread where we argued intensively and extensively for and against deregulation. Your position then was very much different from your position now. At least going by your very first post on this thread. Its good to know that for those that are objective and willing enough to learn, Nairaland can be a very very useful forum.

But for fooooools like Beaf and the likes, let us just ignore them and hope that their fooly drives them to their destruction very soon.

God is such a merciful God. Otherwise, maggots like beaf should not, be alive by now.

You mean you are actually uttering curses, because you feel you have a right to be paid by govt, rather than demand the right things or do a hard days work?
Are you proud to be a beggar? I find your position absolutely ridiculous and laughable.

It is very obvious - dare any  nairalander to swear that they have never paid a bribe or received a bribe in Nigeria, even if it is N100 at checkpoint, or received a N50 for giving somebody a file in the office they work.

As long as somebody is willing to give you 'free money' for importing something you will continue to inflate the figures of what you import.

try it with your maiguard, or younger brother, send him to the market and reimburse him what has has spent, he will eventually start increasing what his has bought for you to reimburse him more especially when you have no way of counting what he bought.

The official figures of the amount of petrol imported is grossly over inflated so the importers, NNPC staff, certain civil servants and politicians benefit from the government payouts. When I import 20 tonnes of PMS, me and the NNPC will write that I imported 40 tonnes, so government will give subsidy for 40 tonnes instead of 20 tonnes.

Downstream marketers are paid a premium to take the petrol to Maiduguri or Sokoto, the government actually gives them the cash to maintain N65 in Zamfara, guess what? I sell the petrol in Lagos or even Cotonou after pocketing the subsidy money.

Government run refineries? which government business has ever run efficiently? Government business is everybody's business, everybody's business is nobody's business.

No cartel in mobile phones, or clothes, anyone can bring in and sell if you like sell high or sell low the customer knows where to buy.

Subsidy is a drain on Nigeria, billions of unbudgeted money is spent on the subsidy, the amount went up in one year of GEJ, what can anyone do when the importers, the guardians of the importers (NNPC, etc) have colluded to give fake figures to the government to say this is what we imported, what does government do? refuse to pay them? then petrol shortage starts again.

No amount of controls work in Nigeria - remove the incentive, ie the so-called subsidy.

natialo:

Read some people's post like @faithin9ja @na_so @bombay and of cos ,  and believe there's still hope for Naija.

The problem is that we think like idealist, my questions r

1: Why should u keep implementing a policy that has been failing for decades; then tmoro the same protesters will be comparing Nigeria to Ghana

2, Nigerians know now that the choice now is either between increasing price marginally or removing deregulation totally. Why not remove it and give this country a chance (everybody will suffer). A free market is always the cheapest way to fight corruption. Thats why we should fight for govt to hands-off none critical aspects of our economy.

3. Unless we are fooling ourselves, we should know now that no govt will come and totally eradicate corruption in nigeria (unless s/he will kill 160 million people). Even if the person tried we will say /he is either loopsided or anti his hometown

4. Why manage border when US can't even effectively police theirs. Even with all the drones and tech.

5. Is it not folly that petrol prices will be same in lagos and zamfara. Any logical explanation, that whyy Kano is loudest cos they know they might be a little worse off

Comments

Even if govt spends all the proceeds, they can't stop foreign coys from investing in refineries (i.e if we have stable govt and Buhari no overthrow )

Why would nigeria develop when we strike when they want to deregulate Nepa but buy fuel for 500 a day for gen set

My 2 cents: I will say it to my brother (do not expect govt to do something for you, instead think of ways u can make it on your own as no govt will ever immediately transform citizens) development is a slow and hardous process of doing the write thing.

My conclusion is that while Subsidy Removal was an ill timed solution, it is still a solution.  
Arguments should be for spending and salary cuts by govt and political office holders not reintroduction of subsidy.

My opinion, feel free to refute. God Bless Naija  

Even if foreigners build refineries, who says they'll sell at low prices? Market forces or not without govt. refineries we are doomed to buy fuel at over N100 per litre. The reason why people strike when they want to deregulate is because they'll only end up selling to their own personal proxy companies, take a look at NITEL and see how Atiku and co. have destroyed that once glorious company.

How can a govt that has spent billions of dollars on power with no tangible result claim they want more money? A govt that squandered all our money on election campaigns claim they can't afford subsidy again? A govt whose allowance increases every year while they struggle to pay a meager N18,000 minimum wage?

Why threaten us with economic collapse when the economy is already as good as dead?

THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO DEREGULATE, cut the cost of governance, provide the palliatives then remove subsidy not before.

faithin9ja:

It is very obvious - dare any  nairalander to swear that they have never paid a bribe or received a bribe in Nigeria, even if it is N100 at checkpoint, or received a N50 for giving somebody a file in the office they work.

As long as somebody is willing to give you 'free money' for importing something you will continue to inflate the figures of what you import.

try it with your maiguard, or younger brother, send him to the market and reimburse him what has has spent, he will eventually start increasing what his has bought for you to reimburse him more especially when you have no way of counting what he bought.

The official figures of the amount of petrol imported is grossly over inflated so the importers, NNPC staff, certain civil servants and politicians benefit from the government payouts. When I import 20 tonnes of PMS, me and the NNPC will write that I imported 40 tonnes, so government will give subsidy for 40 tonnes instead of 20 tonnes.

Downstream marketers are paid a premium to take the petrol to Maiduguri or Sokoto, the government actually gives them the cash to maintain N65 in Zamfara, guess what? I sell the petrol in Lagos or even Cotonou after pocketing the subsidy money.

Government run refineries? which government business has ever run efficiently? Government business is everybody's business, everybody's business is nobody's business.

No cartel in mobile phones, or clothes, anyone can bring in and sell if you like sell high or sell low the customer knows where to buy.

Subsidy is a drain on Nigeria, billions of unbudgeted money is spent on the subsidy, the amount went up in one year of GEJ, what can anyone do when the importers, the guardians of the importers (NNPC, etc) have colluded to give fake figures to the government to say this is what we imported, what does government do? refuse to pay them? then petrol shortage starts again.

No amount of controls work in Nigeria - remove the incentive, ie the so-called subsidy.

And what has ur precious govt done with the billions saved from the subsidy removed on diesel, aviation fuel etc. Absolutely nothing except to increase their allowance and bribe PDP members $5,000 to vote for them in a primary election.

Wasteful leadership cannot make prudent investments.

Beaf:

^
Abeg, learn what deregulation means so you don't ask such questions.

You mean you are actually uttering curses, because you feel you have a right to be paid by govt, rather than demand the right things or do a hard days work?
Are you proud to be a beggar? I find your position absolutely ridiculous and laughable.

Beaf, thank heavens you are here, Can you answer my question below? If you can succeed in convincing only me without abuses, I will be glad!

bodejohn:

There is a big question on my mind while thinking about this subsidy issues. Like most Nigerians, I believe too that our economy cannot forever support subsidy on petroleum products the way it is been run by the GEJ govt. But I also believe that the spirit and passion of the removal is also completely wrong at this time considering the less than zero preparation of the government not to only cushion the effect but to provide alternatives to suffering Nigerians.
All these got me think and I found a big hole in the argument of govt. according to govt. sources some amount was budgeted for fuel subsidy last year but it was overpaid by about a trillion naira, that leaves the govt with some one trillion deficit.
But there is no amount budgeted for subsidy in this year's budget how is the govt expected to make savings? You can only make savings on what you have, how does okonjo iweala plan to make savings on what was not budgeted for?
Will the govt take what she used to pay back from the marketers? A quick answer to my mind confirms the fact that there was no subsidy in the first place. But not to live in my ignorance if that is the case, how does the govt plan to rake in savings of subsidy condering the fact that she will no longer monitor consumption. I need some answers please,

@A-zed
@Faithin 9ja, beaf et al

does subsidy removal stop over inflated contracts that the so called money from subsidy removal will be used for??
does subsidy removal mean that the common man can apply for license to import petrol without knowing "somebody" or bribing an nnpc official?
does subsidy removal mean nobody will steal out of the money saved??

of course not. Corruption will continue, we are all part of it, but removal of subsidy is the first step, why continue an ineffective corrupt practice that benefit only a few people n the cabals who use the guise of helping the masses buy fuel at N65, whereas they are making billions.