This is Islam in practice! , Masha Allah!

1. Seest thou one who denies the Judgment [to come]?
2. Then such is the [man] who repulses the orphan [with harshness],
3. And encourages not the feeding of the indigent.
4. So woe to the worshippers
5. Who are neglectful of their prayers,
6. Those who [want but] to be seen [of men],
7. But refuse [to supply] [even] neighbourly needs.

Surah(107: 1-7)

A Bronx Tale
After the congregants of an Orthodox synagogue could no longer afford their rent, they found help in the local mosque.

Near the corner of Westchester Avenue and Pugsley Street in Parkchester, just off the elevated tracks of the No. 6 train, Yaakov Wayne Baumann stood outside a graffiti-covered storefront on a chilly Saturday morning. Suited up in a black overcoat with a matching wide-brimmed black fedora, the thickly bearded 42-year-old chatted with elderly congregants as they entered the building for Shabbat service.

The only unusual detail: This synagogue is a mosque.

Or rather, it’s housed inside a mosque. That’s right: Members of the Chabad of East Bronx, an ultra-Orthodox synagogue, worship in the Islamic Cultural Center of North America, which is home to the Al-Iman mosque.

“People have a misconception that Muslims hate Jews,” said Baumann. “But here is an example of them working with us.”

Indeed, though conventionally viewed as adversaries both here and abroad, the Jews and Muslims of the Bronx have been propelled into an unlikely bond by a demographic shift. The borough was once home to an estimated 630,000 Jews, but by 2002 that number had dropped to 45,100, according to a study by the Jewish Community Relations Council. At the same time, the Muslim population has been increasing. In Parkchester alone, there are currently five mosques, including Masjid Al-Iman.

“Nowhere in the world would Jews and Muslims be meeting under the same roof,” said Patricia Tomasulo, the Catholic Democratic precinct captain and Parkchester community organizer, who first introduced the leaders of the synagogue and mosque to each other. “It’s so unique.”

The relationship started years ago, when the Young Israel Congregation, then located on Virginia Avenue in Parkchester, was running clothing drives for needy families, according to Leon Bleckman, now 78, who was at the time the treasurer of the congregation. One of the recipients was Sheikh Moussa Drammeh, the founder of the Al-Iman Mosque, who was collecting donations for his congregants—many of whom are immigrants from Africa. The 49-year-old imam is an immigrant from Gambia in West Africa who came to the United States in 1986. After a year in Harlem, he moved to Parkchester, where he eventually founded the Muslim center and later established an Islamic grade school. Through that initial meeting, a rapport developed between the two houses of worship, and the synagogue continued to donate to the Islamic center, among other organizations.

But in 2003, after years of declining membership, Young Israel was forced to sell its building at 1375 Virginia Ave., according to a database maintained by Yeshiva University, which keeps historical records of synagogues. Before the closing, non-religious items were given away; in fact, among the beneficiaries was none other than Drammeh, who took some chairs and tables for his center.

Meanwhile, Bleckman and the remaining members moved to a nearby storefront location, renting it for $2,000 a month including utilities. With mostly elderly congregants, Young Israel struggled to survive financially and, at the end of 2007, was forced to close for good. The remaining congregants were left without a place to pray. During the synagogue’s farewell service, four young men from the Chabad Lubavitch world headquarters in Crown Heights showed up. Three months earlier, Bleckman, then chairman of the synagogue’s emergency fund, had appealed for help from the Chabad.

“The boys from the Chabad said they came to save us,” said Bleckman. “We were crying.”

At this point, Chabad took over the congregational reins from Young Israel, with members officially adopting the new name Chabad of East Bronx. Still, for the next six to seven weeks, Bleckman said they could not even hold a service because they had nowhere to hold it.

When Drammeh learned of their plight, he immediately volunteered to accommodate them at the Muslim center at 2006 Westchester Ave.—for free.

“They don’t pay anything, because these are old folks whose income are very limited now,” said Drammeh, adding that he felt it was his turn to help the people who had once helped him and his community. “Not every Muslim likes us, because not every Muslim believes that Muslims and Jews should be like this,” Drammeh said, referring to the shared space. But “there’s no reason why we should hate each other, why we cannot be families.” Drammeh in particular admires the dedication of the Chabad rabbis, who walked 15 miles from Brooklyn every Saturday to run prayer services for the small Parkchester community.

For the first six months, congregants held Friday night Sabbath services inside Drammeh’s cramped office. As more people began joining the congregation, Drammeh offered them a bigger room where they could set up a makeshift shul. (When it’s not in use, students from the Islamic school use it as their classroom.) Inside the synagogue, a worn, beige cotton curtain separates the men and women who attend the service. A solitary chandelier hangs just above the black wooden arc that holds the borrowed Torah, which is brought weekly from the Chabad headquarters. A large table covered with prayer books stands in the center, and a picture of the Lubavitcher Rebbe is displayed prominently on a nearby wall. During Shabbat, when Jewish congregants are strictly prohibited from working, they have to rely on the Muslim workers at the center or on Drammeh to do simple chores such as turning on the light and switching on the heater.

At first, it did not make sense, said Hana Kabakow, wife of Rabbi Meir Kabakow. “I was surprised,” said the 26-year-old congregant who was born and raised in Israel. “But when I came here I understood.” The Kabakows have been coming to the service from Brooklyn for the last two years.

Harriet Miller, another congregant, said she appreciated the center’s accommodating the synagogue. “They are very sweet people,” said the 79-year-old Bronx native and long-time resident of Parkchester, who added that she welcomes the new Muslim immigrants in her neighborhood: “We were not brought up to hate.”

Drammeh also understands the importance of teaching tolerance more broadly, and for turning the school—which was itself founded at the nearby St. Helena Catholic Church on, of all days, Sept. 11, 2001—into a model of sorts for religious tolerance in New York.

“We’re not as divided as the media portrays us to be,” Drammeh said. “Almost 90 percent of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian teachings are the same.”

His latest project involves introducing fifth-grade Jewish and Islamic school students to each other’s religious traditions. Other participants of the program, now in its sixth year, include the Solomon Schechter School of Manhattan, the Al Ihsan Academy of Queens, and the Kinneret Day School of Riverdale. At the end of the program, students organize an exhibit that shows family artifacts of their respective cultures and religion. The principal of the Islamic school, who is also Sheik Drammeh’s wife, said that even after the program ended, the participants became “fast friends” and would visit each other’s homes.

“They would have birthday parties together,” Shireena Drammeh said. “When someone invites you to their house, I mean, that says it all right there and then.”

While the Jewish congregants are thankful for their new home, they hope that one day they can rebuild their own synagogue. That day may be far off: Even now that they have space to worship, they still struggle to operate. They don’t have proper heating inside, and the portable working heater could not reach the separate area where the elderly women are seated, forcing them to wear their jackets during the entire service. Congregants are appealing for financial support from the Jewish community and other congregations.

But Leon Bleckman and others say they now also have loftier goals, including reviving the Jewish presence in the neighborhood and reaffirming the positive relationship with their Muslim friends. “We are able to co-exist together side by side in the same building,” said Assistant Rabbi Avi Friedman, 42. “That’s sort of like a taste of the future world to come—the messianic future where all people live in peace.”

http://www.tabletmag.com/life-and-religion/88849/a-bronx-tale-3/

tbaba1234:

This is Islam in practice! ,  Masha Allah!

no hypocrite, this is the american spirit in action. In Saudi Arabia that would NEVER happen, neither in Egypt, Syria, Pakistan or even Gaza!
In Jordan and the WestBank, jews are forbidden to live their or own land. Selling land to a jew in those areas is a death penalty offence by law! FACT!
In "moderate" countries like Bahrain, Qatar, Iran or even Oman . . . just having a jewish stamp on your passport is enough to deny you entry.

Havent we all gotten tired of muslims trying to pull the wool over our eyes by pretending that the actions of muslims in western nations (where they are constrained by human right laws) is what islam is all about?

davidylan:

no hypocrite, this is the american spirit in action. In Saudi Arabia that would NEVER happen, neither in Egypt, Syria, Pakistan or even Gaza!

Jews have lived in Muslim lands for hundreds of years in peace, The jews had their golden years in the lands of the Muslims in the Iberian peninsula, The relatively recent conflict over the state of Israel has negatively affected relations. There are still many Jews living in peace and security in many parts of the middle east (yemen, morocco, iran),

Good to see you enjoyed the story though!!

tbaba1234:

Jews have lived in Muslim lands for hundreds of years in peace, The jews had their golden years in the lands of the Muslims in the Iberian peninsula, The relatively recent conflict over the state of Israel has negatively affected relations. There are still many Jews living in peace and security in many parts of the middle east (yemen, morocco, iran),

Good to see you enjoyed the story though!!

The iberian peninsula? You mean European lands forcibly conquered by rampaging hordes of demonic muslims? When did it become "lands of the muslims" rather than lands of the rightful owners the Spanish?
What of the Qurayza tribe of jews mohammad wiped off the planet in AD 627? What of the Qaynuda and Nadir tribes wiped out in Ad 624 and 625 by mohammad himself?

Of course jews still live in "peace" in parts of the middle east as long as they stay as second class citizens and pay jizya tax.

American spirit? I wonder why the jewish Synagogues in the bronx didnt help the Christians?

Thats even a harder calling. Why can't the Christian church or churches down the street or around the corner do what the muslims have done? The possibility that the muslims are immigrants is very likely because you do not have a white or black or spanish american only organized mosque in the bronx. I doubt if Davidylan ever had visited the Bronx before.

davidylan:

The iberian peninsula? You mean European lands forcibly conquered by rampaging hordes of demonic muslims? When did it become "lands of the muslims" rather than lands of the rightful owners the Spanish? 
What of the Qurayza tribe of jews mohammad wiped off the planet in AD 627? What of the Qaynuda and Nadir tribes wiped out in Ad 624 and 625 by mohammad himself?

Of course jews still live in "peace" in parts of the middle east as long as they stay as second class citizens and pay jizya tax.

Again, you are missing the point,  The jews in the iberian peninsula enjoyed freedoms that they would not enjoy in christian europe at the time. What happened when the christians europeans gained control? there was a massacre of people,  Jews and Muslims.

What about bani Qurayza? The guilty of bani Qurayza were sentenced to death for treason (for putting the lives of women and children in danger) by a Judge they chose and according to Jewish law (Deut. 20:12-14). If Bani Qurayza's plan had succeeded, they would have wiped out the early muslim population.

Qaynuda and Nadir were expelled from the Arabian Peninsula for breaking the constitution of medina that they agreed to and for the consequent danger they posed to the nascent Muslim community.

The Jizya gives minority tribes the freedom to carry out all their commercial and religious freedoms even in things that are prohibited (swine n wine) and a exception from military service if they want,  Muslims already pay the Zakat which is much higher than the Jizya.

This is a beautiful story, Just Enjoy it.

tbaba1234:

Again, you are missing the point,  The jews in the iberian peninsula enjoyed freedoms that they would not enjoy in christian europe at the time. What happened when the christians europeans gained control? there was a massacre of people,  Jews and Muslims.

What about bani Qurayza? The guilty of bani Qurayza were sentenced to death for treason (for putting the lives of women and children in danger) by a Judge they chose and according to Jewish law (Deut. 20:12-14). If Bani Qurayza's plan had succeeded, they would have wiped out the early muslim population.

Qaynuda and Nadir were expelled from the Arabian Peninsula for breaking the constitution of medina that they agreed to and for the consequent danger they posed to the nascent Muslim community.

The Jizya gives minority tribes the freedom to carry out all their commercial and religious freedoms even in things that are prohibited (swine n wine) and a exception from military service if they want,  Muslims already pay the Zakat which is much higher than the Jizya.

This is a beautiful story, Just  Enjoy it.

Lol, you must think we are dumb !!

frosbel:

Lol, you must think we are dumb !!

I just outlined the purpose of the Jizya, The facts are historically verifiable.

The christian communities under the Ottoman empire dealt in swine and wine in lands under muslim control,

tbaba1234:

I just outlined the purpose of the Jizya,  The facts are historically verifiable.

The christian communities under the Ottoman empire dealt in swine and wine in lands under muslim control, 

Summary Answer:
Absolutely.  Muhammad very clearly established that people of other religions have to pay a poll tax to Muslims called the jizya, as a reminder of their inferior status.  This abrogates an earlier verse stating that there is "no compulsion in religion" and destroys any pretense that Islam is merely a religion and not a political system.



The Qur'an:
Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


From the Hadith:

Muslim (19:4294) - There are many places in the hadith where Muhammad tells his followers to demand the jizya of non-believers.  Here he lays down the rule that it is to be extorted by force: "If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (53:386) - The command for Muslims to spread Islamic rule by force, subjugating others until they either convert to Islam or pay money, is eternal: Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master."  This is being recounted during the reign of Umar, Muhammad's companion and the second caliph who sent conquering armies into non-Muslim Persian and Christian lands (after Muhammad's death).

Ishaq 956 & 962 - "He who withholds the Jizya is an enemy of Allah and His apostle."  The words of Muhammad.

Again you are interpreting things according to your whims, The Jizya is not to convert anyone, It is just a tax.

The Jizya is part of the law of the land, what happens when you fail to pay your taxes?, The Jizya can only be collected from free able-bodied men. not from women, old people or children.

Now lets put it in its historical context:

The collection of jizya was not new to the world. Islam was not the first religion to introduce it. It was a common practice in ancient Egypt and Rome. In Rome, it was charged on the alien business community of the state.

We find in the biblical text that Joshua collected tax from the people of Canaan. Islam did not abolish this system and instead continued it as a source of revenue and maintenance of financial expenditure.

The Islamic law is based on justice and welfare of the people. The state is obliged to formulate and implement policies based on the general interest of the people. If the state by any means failed to protect the lives and property of the non Muslims, it is incumbent upon the ruler to return the collected amount to the payers. During the reign of second caliph Umar bin khattab,the Muslim army returned a huge sum of money to the Christians before leaving Syria to fight the Romans.

Besides paying zakaah (2.5% of savings), ushoor (10% of agricultural lands) ,the Muslims had to pay sadaqah,khums,fitrah.as matter of fact the per capita collection from the Muslims were several fold than the non Muslims

Jizya was a mere tax collected in return for protection granted by Muslim state to the non -Muslims. The non- Muslims were exempted from participating in wars and thus could live their life peacefully like i stated earlier.

Thanks.

tbaba1234:

Again you are interpreting things according to your whims, The Jizya is not to convert anyone, It is just a tax.

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until[b] they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."[/b]

Your Koran explicitly states : 'they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued '

Please stop playing games, why the word [b]subdue [/b]at the end this verse ?

frosbel:

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until[b] they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."[/b]

Your Koran explicitly states : 'they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued '

Please stop playing games, why the word subdue [/b]at the end this verse ?

This Ayah talks explicitly about a war situation with the persians and romans:

Shaykh Jalal Abualrub writes about this verse:

These Ayat (Quranic verses) stress the necessity of fighting against the People of the Scripture, but under what conditions? [b]We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims by force from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them. If any of these offenses occurs, however, Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub, Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad)

so Is it an obligation of an Islamic state to attack the neighboring non-Muslim states and collect ‘jizya’ from them? or subdue them?

Sheikh Hânî al-Jubayr, judge at the Jeddah Supreme Court says:

If the non-Muslim country did not attack the Muslim one nor mobilize itself to prevent the practice and spread of Islam, nor transgress against mosques, nor work to oppress the Muslim people in their right to profess their faith and decry unbelief, then it is not for the Muslim country to attack that country. Jihâd of a military nature was only permitted to help Muslims defend their religion and remove oppression from the people.

So in the case of oppression or an attack on the muslim state,  If the muslims subdues them, they come under muslim rule and under islamic law.


Dr. Maher Hathout comments on this verse:

Freedom of religion is an essential aspect in an Islamic state. One of the five pillars of Islam is zakat (almsgiving). The People of the Book (Christians and Jews) are not obliged to pay the Islamic zakat that is spent by the state for social necessities and state affairs as defined in the Quran (see 9:60). But they must pay other taxes to share in the state budget. If they refuse to pay this tax to the state and rebel against the state, then it is the obligation of the state to confront them until they pay it. This is what Caliph Abu Bakr did after the death of the Prophet, when some people refused to pay zakat. (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, p.53)

Those were muslims who broke the law of the state by failing to pay tax. Same applies to anyone who fails to pay tax within the state.

The verse spoke specifically on war situation caused by an attack on the muslims. I think the quotes above sufficiently deals with the verse.

Thanks.

tbaba1234:

This Ayah talks explicitly about a war situation with the persians and romans:

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

On the contrary , the Quran verse says 'Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day'. In other words anyone who does not believe in Allah or the last day.

Just for your info, in Eqypt , the Muslim brotherhood is asking for the Jizya to be introduced for the Copts - click [url=http://www.alazma.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39374%3A-qq--------qq--------q----q-video&catid=339%3A2011-04-13-13-22-22&Itemid=50]Here[/url]

"I say to those who fear to get to the rule that you free the Copts from the massacres Romans, Muslims, and that the Copts pay the tribute will be half a dinar only be taken from their rich and given to the poor ones, "he also criticized the Egyptian law, stressing that the law in case the Islamists to power will not depend on positive law, but will depend only on the Islamic law is opposed to this is opposed God!!

In Arabic which is what the site is configured with :

"أقول للذين يخشون للوصول الى القاعدة التي قمت مجانا الأقباط من المذابح الرومان والمسلمين والأقباط أن تدفع الجزية سيكون نصف دينار فقط تؤخذ من أغنيائهم وتعطى للدول الفقيرة" كما انتقد القانون المصري، مؤكدا أن القانون في حالة الإسلاميين إلى السلطة سوف
لا تعتمد على القانون الوضعي، ولكن لن تتوقف فقط على الشريعة الإسلامية تعارض وتعارض هذا الإله!"

Tell me , are the Copts fighting the Muslims 

Shaykh Jalal Abualrub writes about this verse:

These Ayat (Quranic verses) stress the necessity of fighting against the People of the Scripture, but under what conditions? We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims by force from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them. If any of these offenses occurs, however, Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub, Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad)

In other words fight those that preach another gospel to Muslims for the purpose of conversion, right ?  I am sorry this is an ambiguous and open statement and could be used to justify attacks on innocent people as is happening all over the Muslim world, especially preachers who only have a BIBLE as their weapon. These are whipped, tortured and many times killed for their faith in many Muslim countries.

Just to forewarn you , I have a catalogue of cases to prove my point, but these should suffice for now !

so Is it an obligation of an Islamic state to attack the neighboring non-Muslim states and collect ‘jizya’ from them? or subdue them?

Sheikh Hânî al-Jubayr, judge at the Jeddah Supreme Court says:

If the non-Muslim country did not attack the Muslim one nor mobilize itself to prevent the practice and spread of Islam, nor transgress against mosques, nor work to oppress the Muslim people in their right to profess their faith and decry unbelief, then it is not for the Muslim country to attack that country. Jihâd of a military nature was only permitted to help Muslims defend their religion and remove oppression from the people.

Wow , this statement , in itself is madness to the core, common , if a Christian country , let us assume a non-existent one, Biafra in this instance which is 99% Catholic, if the government mobilises it's forces to prevent the spread of ISLAM , you are telling me that a neighbouring ISLAMIC nation or nations are permitted to attack, conquer , subdue and subject the peoples of this country to the jizya tax if they refuse to convert to ISLAM , right ?

In your own words , you have described to the whole world how ISLAM was spread.

tbaba1234:

Again, you are missing the point,  The jews in the iberian peninsula enjoyed freedoms that they would not enjoy in christian europe at the time. What happened when the christians europeans gained control? there was a massacre of people,  Jews and Muslims.

You're dishonestly trying to avoid the facts bro. The Iberian peninsula had far fewer jews compared to arabia, east africa . . why did mohammad go on a campaign of annihilation against them?
Secondly, Iberian WAS and today still remains christian Europe illegally conquered by rampaging hordes of violent and demonic muslims (at no time was it "muslim lands".
Thirdly, christian europeans did not "gain control" of the Iberian peninsula, they merely drove out the muslims who were occupying their lands. Neither did they massacre the jews there. Infact jews are treated far better in christian europe than any other islamic nation were they are meant to be seen and not heard.

tbaba1234:

What about bani Qurayza? The guilty of bani Qurayza were sentenced to death for[b] treason (for putting the lives of women and children in danger) [/b]by a Judge they chose and according to Jewish law (Deut. 20:12-14). If Bani Qurayza's plan had succeeded, they would have wiped out the early muslim population.

This is a clearly silly reasoning conjured up by someone desperate to absolve mohammad of his violent and murderous streak. Putting lives of which women and children in danger? Is that your own definition of treason? Pls see a dictionary pls. What of the jews of Nadir? who were they planning to wipe out?

First of all, the theory that the jews wanted to wipe out the early muslim population is historically false.

tbaba1234:

Qaynuda and Nadir were expelled from the Arabian Peninsula for breaking the constitution of medina that they agreed to and for the consequent danger they posed to the nascent Muslim community.

Again more insane lies.

tbaba1234:

The Jizya gives minority tribes the freedom to carry out all their commercial and religious freedoms even in things that are prohibited (swine n wine) and a exception from military service if they want,  Muslims already pay the Zakat which is much higher than the Jizya.

this is too absurd to consider even rebutting.

tbaba1234:

This is a beautiful story, Just Enjoy it.

Yeah, a testament to the freedom of the american spirit. I wonder why such stories are NEVER found in islamic nations.

tbaba1234:

Again you are interpreting things according to your whims, The Jizya is not to convert anyone, It is just a tax.

The Jizya is part of the law of the land, what happens when you fail to pay your taxes?, The Jizya can only be collected from free able-bodied men. not from women, old people or children.

Now lets put it in its historical context:

The collection of jizya was not new to the world. Islam was not the first religion to introduce it. It was a common practice in ancient Egypt and Rome. In Rome, it was charged on the alien business community of the state.

We find in the biblical text that Joshua collected tax from the people of Canaan. Islam did not abolish this system and instead continued it as a source of revenue and maintenance of financial expenditure.

The Islamic law is based on justice and welfare of the people.

the attempt to compare the jizya to the US tax system is dumb and dishonest. If that were the case then the IRS would be collecting taxes based on your birth certificate right? While Joshua taxed the people of Canaan, the jews were also subject to much heavier taxes as well so this was not a levy solely aimed at the "infidel".

Besides like Frosbel pointed out - Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Does this look like what you find in your IRS tax codes?

tbaba1234:

This Ayah talks explicitly about a war situation with the persians and romans:

How?

tbaba1234:

Shaykh Jalal Abualrub writes about this verse:

These Ayat (Quranic verses) stress the necessity of fighting against the People of the Scripture, but under what conditions? We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims by force from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them. If any of these offenses occurs, however, Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub, Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad)

Like frosbel said, this is a deliberately ambiguous and dubious verse that can be used to justify terror against any non-muslim. What does it mean to "oppress muslims"? Israel merely existing in its lands is termed as "oppressing muslims" and hence this verse is used to justify bomb attacks against them and the slaughtering of 2-yr old jewish kids.
What does it mean to try to convert muslims by force? The itinerant preacher who strolls in to speak a few bible words to his workmate?
What does it mean to expel muslims from their lands? Is this verse used to justify bomb attacks against spain? Is this the same verse that is used to justify terror against jews? Is this the verse used to justify bombing police stations in Kano?

Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub, Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad

So muslims are permitted to attack and kill non-muslims who choose not to sign pacts with them? Why is the signing of a pact REQUIRED before others can live in peace without being in danger of islamic aggression? What a horribly wicked religion.

tbaba1234:

Sheikh Hânî al-Jubayr, judge at the Jeddah Supreme Court says:

If the non-Muslim country did not attack the Muslim one nor mobilize itself to prevent the practice and spread of Islam, nor transgress against mosques, nor work to oppress the Muslim people in their right to profess their faith and decry unbelief, then it is not for the Muslim country to attack that country. Jihâd of a military nature was only permitted to help Muslims defend their religion and remove oppression from the people.

another wicked, horrible and deliberately ambiguous explanation. I guess this verse then justifies bombing churches for "preventing the spread of islam". We can also kill those who mistakenly stroll into mosques right for "transgressing against mosques". What of secular folks who vote to make the country secular? Are they in danger of "oppressing the muslim right to profess their faith"? Those who decry unbelief then would be non-muslims right? So they can be killed for denying mohammad's prophethood? Wow! What a satanic religion.

I need my lunch. Reading this just makes me more and more nauseated. and exactly why does the satanic hypocrite tbaba live in the USA again?

frosbel:

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

On the contrary , the Quran verse says 'Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day'. In other words anyone who does not believe in Allah or the last day.

Just for your info, in Eqypt , the Muslim brotherhood is asking for the Jizya to be introduced for the Copts - click [url=http://www.alazma.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39374%3A-qq--------qq--------q----q-video&catid=339%3A2011-04-13-13-22-22&Itemid=50]Here[/url]

"I say to those who fear to get to the rule that you free the Copts from the massacres Romans, Muslims, and that the Copts pay the tribute will be half a dinar only be taken from their rich and given to the poor ones, "he also criticized the Egyptian law, stressing that the law in case the Islamists to power will not depend on positive law, but will depend only on the Islamic law is opposed to this is opposed God!!

In Arabic which is what the site is configured with :

"أقول للذين يخشون للوصول الى القاعدة التي قمت مجانا الأقباط من المذابح الرومان والمسلمين والأقباط أن تدفع الجزية سيكون نصف دينار فقط تؤخذ من أغنيائهم وتعطى للدول الفقيرة" كما انتقد القانون المصري، مؤكدا أن القانون في حالة الإسلاميين إلى السلطة سوف
لا تعتمد على القانون الوضعي، ولكن لن تتوقف فقط على الشريعة الإسلامية تعارض وتعارض هذا الإله!"

Tell me , are the Copts fighting the Muslims 

In other words fight those that preach another gospel to Muslims for the purpose of conversion, right ?  I am sorry this is an ambiguous and open statement and could be used to justify attacks on innocent people as is happening all over the Muslim world, especially preachers who only have a BIBLE as their weapon. These are whipped, tortured and many times killed for their faith in many Muslim countries.

Just to forewarn you , I have a catalogue of cases to prove my point, but these should suffice for now !

It looks like you misunderstand my explanation or you just interprete it, the way it suits you,

The Jizya law is applicable only in an Islamic State, it is not about fighting the non-muslims, If you want to apply the rules, both the majority (muslims) and the minority must pay their taxes to the state.

If the muslims in Egypt want to implement such a system, They must also ensure that all muslims pay the Zakat and Ushoor taxes before making copts pay Jizya. That will be fair and Just.

tbaba1234:

Shaykh Jalal Abualrub writes about this verse:

We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims [b]by force [/b]from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them.

I think this statement is pretty clear, Live and let live.

I am sure, you have your list of instances of people's right being violated in majority muslim states across the worlds. Some of them might have gone against the laws of the land they were in, If so, they get punished, Some might have been innocent, I have spoken against some of the actions of some governments.

The point is this, Currently, there is no majority muslim state implementing the Islamic law altruistically. Not a single one. The Law if properly implemented seeks not to oppress anyone.

frosbel:

Wow , this statement , in itself is madness to the core, common , if a Christian country , let us assume a non-existent one, Biafra in this instance which is 99% Catholic, if the government mobilises it's forces to prevent the spread of ISLAM , you are telling me that a neighbouring ISLAMIC nation or nations are permitted to attack, conquer , subdue and subject the peoples of this country to the jizya tax if they refuse to convert to ISLAM , right ?

In your own words , you have described to the whole world how ISLAM was spread.

Again you misinterprete the quote, you r a Legend:

Sheikh Hânî al-Jubayr said:

If the non-Muslim country did not attack the Muslim one nor mobilize itself to prevent the practice and spread of Islam, nor transgress against mosques, nor work to oppress the Muslim people in their right to profess their faith and decry unbelief, then it is not for the Muslim country to attack that country. Jihâd of a military nature was only permitted to help Muslims defend their religion and remove oppression from the people.

This only states that  muslim states can not act without some kind of provacation, we are not permitted to oppress people. No matter how strong , the muslim state might be.

This situation relates to two states, Muslim and Non-Muslim, These two states will have good relations as long as the Non-Muslim state does not attack the Muslim state. (this works both ways),

In the case of muslims being oppressed in a non-muslim state, the muslims in that state should migrate to the muslim state if they can. If they are being prevented from leaving, then the muslim state can intervene on their behalf through negotiation and dialogue before talking about any form of violence/war to free the oppressed.

for the romans
The Prophet Muhammad did not initiate agression against anyone, rather he and his followers were under attack from all who sought to crush the new Islamic state. The first hostilities between the Muslims and the Roman empire began when the Prophet Muhammad’s messenger to the Ghassan tribe (a governate of the Roman empire), Al-Harith bin Umayr Al-Azdi, was tied up and beheaded (Al-Mubarakpuri, Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum, p. 383).

Killing a diplomat is an open act of war.

Hostilities between the Muslims and the Persians only began after the Persian emperor Chosroe ordered his governor in Yemen Badham, to kill the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, although his efforts were thwarted when the latter accepted Islam.

Another act of war

The Islam spread by the sword mantra is just regurgitated nonsense. Any serious study of history will show otherwise.

Thanks.

tbaba1234:

The Jizya law is applicable only in an Islamic State

Of course. We have laws here in the west. We certainly wont be letting muslims impose such discriminatory nonsense on us.

tbaba1234:

it is not about fighting the non-muslims

the verses you quoted are explicitly stating this.

tbaba1234:

If you want to apply the rules, both the majority (muslims) and the minority must pay their taxes to the state.

that is not what the verse states.

tbaba1234:

If the muslims in Egypt want to implement such a system, They must also ensure that all muslims pay the Zakat and Ushoor taxes before making copts pay Jizya. That will be fair and Just.

this is nonsensical as it is your opinion. The Egyptians already have a tax system, however they are insisting copts (and copts only) pay the jizya subjugation tax as clearly stated in the quran.

tbaba1234:

Hostilities between the Muslims and the Persians only began after the Persian emperor Chosroe ordered his governor in Yemen Badham, to kill the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, although his efforts were thwarted when the latter accepted Islam.

Another act of war

More islamic psychobabble. Where is the INDEPENDENT historical evidence for this tale?
Muslims conquered the persians under Caliphs Abu bakr and Omaf. Yrs after mohammad had died.

davidylan:

How?

Like frosbel said, this is a deliberately ambiguous and dubious verse that can be used to justify terror against any non-muslim. What does it mean to "oppress muslims"? Israel merely existing in its lands is termed as "oppressing muslims" and hence this verse is used to justify bomb attacks against them and the slaughtering of 2-yr old jewish kids.
What does it mean to try to convert muslims by force? The itinerant preacher who strolls in to speak a few bible words to his workmate?
What does it mean to expel muslims from their lands? Is this verse used to justify bomb attacks against spain? Is this the same verse that is used to justify terror against jews? Is this the verse used to justify bombing police stations in Kano?

So muslims are permitted to attack and kill non-muslims who choose not to sign pacts with them? Why is the signing of a pact REQUIRED before others can live in peace without being in danger of islamic aggression? What a horribly wicked religion.

another wicked, horrible and deliberately ambiguous explanation. I guess this verse then justifies bombing churches for "preventing the spread of islam". We can also kill those who mistakenly stroll into mosques right for "transgressing against mosques". What of secular folks who vote to make the country secular? Are they in danger of "oppressing the muslim right to profess their faith"? Those who decry unbelief then would be non-muslims right? So they can be killed for denying mohammad's prophethood? Wow! What a satanic religion.

I need my lunch. Reading this just makes me more and more nauseated. and exactly why does the satanic hypocrite tbaba live in the USA again?

This is a load of nonsense to be honest, This will be my last reply, otherwise we keep going in circles,

The verse were revealed under a specific context, In a time of war. All verses in the Quran that talks about fighting does so in the context of a war. That is why the word Qitaal is used. Qitaal means a combat between groups. The laws of Zakat have already been addressed in  the Quran, it does not need to be addressed here

I do not support the killing of innocent Israelis neither do i support the massacre of people in Gaza and the west Bank by Israeli bombs. Are those guys not people too? Funny, you only talk about murder on one side when it is perpetuated by both sides. Two unequal sides sides at that. Terror has been perpetuated by the Israeli government on the people of Gaza, Don't get it twisted.

Islam do not support the murder of innocent people by any group, whether by hamas, Israel, Nigeria, BH,KKK or any other group or country.

Acts of war in islam can only be carried out by an Islamic State  not any group or persons,

davidylan:

You're dishonestly trying to avoid the facts bro. The Iberian peninsula had far fewer jews compared to arabia, east africa . .  why did mohammad go on a campaign of annihilation against them?
Secondly, Iberian WAS and today still remains christian Europe illegally conquered by rampaging hordes of violent and demonic muslims (at no time was it "muslim lands".
Thirdly, christian europeans did not "gain control" of the Iberian peninsula, they merely drove out the muslims who were occupying their lands. Neither did they massacre the jews there. Infact jews are treated far better in christian europe than any other islamic nation were they are meant to be seen and not heard.

This is a clearly silly reasoning conjured up by someone desperate to absolve mohammad of his violent and murderous streak. Putting lives of which women and children in danger?   Is that your own definition of treason? Pls see a dictionary pls. What of the jews of Nadir? who were they planning to wipe out?

First of all, the theory that the jews wanted to wipe out the early muslim population is historically false.

It looks like you haven't read about the small event of the Spanish inquisitition when the european christians captured spain. The Jews and the muslims on the Land were forced to convert to christianity or be killed. An estimated 800,000 Jews left spain. People were detained. tortured and killed, I would like to believe that is not what christianity preaches.

Treason- The crime of betraying one's country, esp. by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

That was exactly what bani Qurayza tribe did by forming alliances with the attacking meccan army. If they succeeded, the muslims would have been sandwiched from the North and the South  and uttered destroyed.

All of this is besides the topic, appreciate the good done by muslims just like you condemn the evil done by some muslims.

Thanks.

tbaba1234:

The verse were revealed under a specific context, In a time of war. All verses in the Quran that talks about fighting does so in the context of a war. That is why the word Qitaal is used. Qitaal means a combat between groups. The laws of Zakat have already been addressed in  the Quran, it does not need to be addressed here

You're right that sometimes trying to argue with a muslim is akin to chasing your own shadow. However i should just point out the usual excuse muslims use to defend their nonsensical quran. As soon as you point out hateful portions of the quran or hadith, we are told they were revealed ONLY for a specific context (time of war) . . . what else is left of the quran that is useful in times of NO WAR? Besides arent these hypocritical frauds the same who then go right ahead to paint the christian God in light of His old testament dealings with the jews of 3000 yrs ago? Do they only remember "context" when it comes to defending the quran and throw it out of the window when they are desperate to paint the bible in the same light as the satanic manual called the quran?