elampiro:
How was Shaw deal under 90% completion when he could have joined Chelsea ahead of us? Deals get cancelled the last minute.
How come he had the power to stop Kroos negotiations?

which chelsea was shaw joining? prove to us here that chelsea made "official bids" to sign luke shaw. also prove we were ever interested enough to submit an official bid to bayern munich to sign kroos.

mourinho who's far more rabid than van gaal had transfers imposed on him by his employer & yet van gaal would cancel a deal that almost made woodward a laughing stock last summer. when you become a manager, the first thing you should do is to cancel what your employer had been chasing for 12 months.

your promotion would be rapid!

coogar:

which chelsea was shaw joining? prove to us here that chelsea made "official bids" to sign luke shaw. also prove we were ever interested enough to submit an official bid to bayern munich to sign kroos.

mourinho who's far more rabid than van gaal had transfers imposed on him by his employer & yet van gaal would cancel a deal that almost made woodward a laughing stock last summer. when you become a manager, the first thing you should do is to cancel what your employer had been chasing for 12 months.

your promotion would be rapid!

Can you also prove to us Shaw and Herrera deals were 90% completed?

coogar:

van gaal was in brazil when shaw & herrera were signed. they were the signings of woodward/giggs. at best, he would only have glanced through the scout report on the 2 players.....there's no way van gaal would be interested in a player that looks like this.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1625039_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

Are we still on that matter?
There is more than enough evidence to conclude van gaal didn't sign the duo.

elampiro:
* They are two separate interviews na. Look well.
* Giggs gave his after he hurried back from Brazil mid way into the world cup to sign Valencia, Shaw and Herrera. Gaal gave his after all his players (old and his new signings) were already assembled and training under him.
* Gaal meant he needed to access his players before making additional signings. These interviews were done in a question and answer format and I have read them as they were published.

Two separate interviews.
One during the world cup and one after.
Which would you take?

Plus, you have not answered me.
If he knew Herrera and Shaw as well as you people claim he did through that Giggs interview, since according to you,he signed them,then there was no need for them to go on the tour.
It is that simple.

first o, tell me, unless I'm missing something, was Giggs in Brazil this summer?
Giggs met with van Gaal on May 14, before van Gaal was unveiled as manager in the Netherlands, and not in June/July in Brazil as you would have us believe. He(Giggs) was a Supersports Pundit for part of the first round of the world Cup. He rushed back to the UK to complete his UEFA Pro License course before taking over preseason training in the absence of van Gaal. He never went to van Gaal in Brazil.

http://tellynewser..fr/2014/06/ryan-giggs-has-left-supersports-world.html

Tell us how he made those comments alluding to Shaw and tell us how a person who was being met with and was 5 days later appointed United manager was part of the process that brought in those two, in line with those comments by giggs.

As said earlier, the Shaw and Herrera signings were part of a sales pitch to van Gaal to convince him to sign on as manager.

elampiro:
Can you also prove to us Shaw and Herrera deals were 90% completed?

i can prove that 100%
herrera was even willing to cover some of the costs last summer & paper work prevented the deal from happening last season.

we were never interested in kroos or hundreds of other names that have been bandied here in the last 6 months. that's just newspaper nonsense you & others love to swallow line hook & sinker.

kroos agent denied the claim vehemently & told the media we never even submitted a single bid to sign his player. so how can van gaal cancel a deal that was never on?

Starboard:
As said earlier, the Shaw and Herrera signings were part of a sales pitch to van Gaal to convince him to sign on as manager.

i can't even believe these people dunno chairmen & others do make signings & impose on the manager. it's not the fault of elampiro though, the power wenger & fergie have wielded in the last 20 years is what confuses him.


mourinho got served with ballack & shevchenko.....why didn't he complain or resign or wait for it........cancel those deals?

StarBoard:
Are we still on that matter?
There is more than enough evidence to conclude van gaal didn't sign the duo.

Two separate interviews.
One during the world cup and one after.
Which would you take?

Plus, you have not answered me.
If he knew Herrera and Shaw as well as you people claim he did through that Giggs interview, since according to you,he signed them,then there was no need for them to go on the tour.
It is that simple.

first o, tell me, unless I'm missing something, was Giggs in Brazil this summer?
Giggs met with van Gaal on May 14, before van Gaal was unveiled as manager in the Netherlands, and not in June/July in Brazil as you would have us believe. He(Giggs) was a Supersports Pundit for part of the first round of the world Cup. He rushed back to the UK to complete his UEFA Pro License course before taking over preseason training in the absence of van Gaal. He never went to van Gaal in Brazil.

http://tellynewser..fr/2014/06/ryan-giggs-has-left-supersports-world.html

Tell us how he made those comments alluding to Shaw and tell us how a person who was being met with and was 5 days later appointed United manager was part of the process that brought in those two, in line with those comments by giggs.

As said earlier, the Shaw and Herrera signings were part of a sales pitch to van Gaal to convince him to sign on as manager.

* So if Gaal knew Herrera and Shaw, they shouldn't be in our preseason tour? I don't get it.

* The Giggs Brazil stuff, I meant Supersports. I mentioned that earlier.

* Giggs met Gaal in May. But never granted interview until Shaw and Herrera were signed. Two of the players Gaal told him he liked. That is why he said two of them have arrived.

coogar:

i can prove that 100%
herrera was even willing to cover some of the costs last summer & paper work prevented the deal from happening last season.

Herrera paid the release clause inserted by Bilbao
http://www.insidespanishfootball.com/113839/official-ander-herrera-pays-buyout-clause-to-sign-for-manchester-united/

The deal had been on for almost a year. It was the insistence by Bilbao that we pay the release clause that prevented the deal from happening when Moyes first went for him.

coogar:
i can prove that 100%
we were never interested in kroos or hundreds of other names that have been bandied here in the last 6 months. that's just newspaper nonsense you & others love to swallow line hook & sinker.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/agent-no-manchester-united-bid-6996489
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/05/22/the-real-reason-manchester-united-pulled-out-of-kroos-bid/
http://www.givemesport.com/439381-manchester-united-receive-boost-in-bid-to-land-kroos
As of mid April, united never made any bid to Bayern for Kroos.
Late May before the world Cup this appeared:
http://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/bayern-munich-transfer-rumors-news/2014/5/23/5744784/bayern-munich-kroos-denies-manchester-united-transfer-as-contract-feud-continues
Speculation because bayern signed Rode from Frankfurt propelled the news.
The news first broke in the middle of the winter transfer window. No real contact was made, despite nonsense reporting by daily mail.
http://www.caughtoffside.com/2014/01/25/man-united-plan-stunning-25m-bid-for-bayern-munich-midfielder-toni-kroos/

elampiro:

* So if Gaal knew Herrera and Shaw, they shouldn't be in our preseason tour? I don't get it.

* The Giggs Brazil stuff, I meant Supersports. I mentioned that earlier.

* Giggs met Gaal in May. But never granted interview until Shaw and Herrera were signed. Two of the players Gaal told him he liked. That is why he said two of them have arrived.

*van Gaal said he needed to assess his players.If he already knew them there was no need to assess them.
*You said he rushed back from Brazil. but even at that, Giggs did not meet with van Gaal after May 14.
5 days later van Gaal was announced as United manager.
If giggs is revealing to you that two have signed (as far back as May), he must be referring to advanced state of negotiations on those Shaw and Herrera deals in a bid to convince van Gaal about the direction of the United side that would convince him to sign.
*the timing of the revelation does not change the fact that the deals were almost done/negotiations taking place when he met van Gaal in May.

StarBoard:
Boss, why na?
Who puts guns to what managers say?

wonder why people find this hard to comprehend or agree with.

You opine like van Gaal was there when the stories about meetings with Shaw's agents began in January.Yet you claim I make conspiracies.

LVG wasn't under any obligation to make statements on wether he approved the deals involving shaw and Herrera, yet he decided to do so in a very concise manner, to the extent that he even mentioned their names. It's a very simple matter.

coogar:

i can prove that 100%
herrera was even willing to cover some of the costs last summer & paper work prevented the deal from happening last season.

we were never interested in kroos or hundreds of other names that have been bandied here in the last 6 months. that's just newspaper nonsense you & others love to swallow line hook & sinker.

kroos agent denied the claim vehemently & told the media we never even submitted a single bid to sign his player. so how can van gaal cancel a deal that was never on?

* Moyes wrote: “It is no secret that I had put a lot of groundwork into signing [Kroos] for Manchester United.

“What I like about Kroos is that he plays the ball to penetrate, he doesn’t do passing for passing’s sake.”

Kroos has recently revealed that he has spoken to new manager Louis Van Gaal, with one of football’s longest running transfer sagas threatening to drag on past the World Cup.

The former Everton boss also suggested that, given the opportunity, he would have gladly brought ex-Manchester United man Paul Pogba back to the club.

“I would have tried to bring him back to Manchester United,” added Moyes.

“He has flourished in Serie A since joining Juve at the age of 19 but that has been no surprise to those who worked with him at Old Trafford.”

http://www.squawka.com/news/ex-manchester-united-manager-wanted-to-sign-kroos/121523

* Herrera's deal was to be last year. It failed and that ended it. Gaal could have cancelled any thing on ground if there was still any. Chikena.

coogar:

i can't even believe these people dunno chairmen & others do make signings & impose on the manager. it's not the fault of elampiro though, the power wenger & fergie have wielded in the last 20 years is what confuses him.


mourinho got served with ballack & shevchenko.....why didn't he complain or resign or wait for it........cancel those deals?

Ancelloti got served with torres. I daresay some of the signings Real have made lately don't have his input.

Jose does not have as much power as he used to with Chelsea in terms of signings. He now has Emenalo to report to. ask Ibime.
These days managers alone don't make the decisions on football matters anymore. That era is going. Wenger is the only one with that power across Europe.
he couldn't cancel those deals because he would be out of a job the next morning. That issue eventually caused his first exit in 2007. I'm not sure he wants a repeat.

elampiro:

* Moyes wrote: “It is no secret that I had put a lot of groundwork into signing [Kroos] for Manchester United.

I think we have established that aside scouting trips, nothing was done in terms of trying to bring Kroos to United.
So let's forget that one.
His agent had said on at least two occasions that no bid had been received from United.
typical of the Moyes/Woodward combo.

I would not quote David moyes for anything in this world.

StarBoard:
*van Gaal said he needed to assess his players.If he already knew them there was no need to assess them.
*You said he rushed back from Brazil. but even at that, Giggs did not meet with van Gaal after May 14.
5 days later van Gaal was announced as United manager.
If giggs is revealing to you that two have signed (as far back as May), he must be referring to advanced state of negotiations on those Shaw and Herrera deals in a bid to convince van Gaal about the direction of the United side that would convince him to sign.
*the timing of the revelation does not change the fact that the deals were almost done/negotiations taking place when he met van Gaal in May.

I am busy. I can't write much. It looks like you are getting the sequence of these things wrong.

I never said Giggs met Gaal in Brazil. They met in Holland. Gaal told Giggs some players he liked that may come in. In late June after signing Valencia, Shaw and Herrera, Giggs revealed two of the players Gaal liked have (now) come in.

As per the preseason, are you insinuating Gaal shouldn't have tested Shaw and Herrera because he liked them? Even if Gaal bought Vidal and Di Maria, they would still be made to go to tour and compete with the rest for overall assessment of the squad for possible further signings.

StarBoard:
I think we have established that aside scouting trips, nothing was done in terms of trying to bring Kroos to United.
So let's forget that one.
His agent had said on at least two occasions that no bid had been received from United.
typical of the Moyes/Woodward combo.

I would not quote David moyes for anything in this world.

So, did Moyes make any bid for Shaw before we eventually signed him?

Did Barca bid for Neymar those 4 years or more they verbally made him their property?

Are we even allowed to bid for a player competing for his top division team when the transfer window haven't opened.

I will be back at night.

All I know is that Gaal admitted they are his signings. Who else should we listen to?

I am with Elampiro on this one...

Is it not the same LVG!!? The one that is so "ruthless" and headstrong that even SAF and Charlton cannot sway him? The one that Wazza cannot try his stew.pid antics with? The one that literally "bared his ba.lls" to prima donnas to get 'em back in line...? And a lowly, "clueless" Woodward who cannot complete a transfer negotiation to save his own life is holding him to ransom!?

Nah! No way I am buying into this... the argument is grossly inconsistent!

Anyway... goalpost shifting is very much allowed!!!

RuuDie: I am with Elampiro on this one...
Nah! No way I am buying into this... the argument is grossly inconsistent!

Anyway... goalpost shifting is very much allowed!!!

You should be used to stuffs like these already.

When it's time to buttress the fact that LVG is strict and principled, we are reminded about how he held the bayern board to ransom and stuffs. When it's time to sway the argument, we are told that he had to "accept certain signings" because he just resumed even when the man made it clear he approved those deals.

Dadehmola:

You should be used to stuffs like these already.

When it's time to buttress the fact that LVG is strict and principled, we are reminded about how he held the bayern board to ransom and stuffs. When it's time to sway the argument, we are told that he had to "accept certain signings" because he just resumed.

elampiro always has to be wrong.. Lol

leggo: elampiro always has to be wrong.. Lol

Well, that seems to be the only valid explanation because I no sabi why argument go dey arise untop issue wey the manager himself don clarify!

Shaw and Herrera were approved by Van Gaal and hence they are his signings.
When you consider the sad state of things last season there is NO WAY the United board would have gone to war with a proven Van Gaal over unproven Shaw and Herrera.
Simply put we needed Van Gaal more than we needed Herrera or Shaw.
Then you factor in Van Gaal's legendary intransigence it simply beggars belief to think that he would allow ANYBODY to force Shaw and Herrera on him.
This is a man some of you said might sell Rooney when he took charge.....now he cant stop the purchase of some unproven players?

And the "Rojo business" gets more intriguing by the day...

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-reported-bid-sparks-rojo-row-102918776--sow.html

LvG definitely said he was asked if he wanted Shaw and Herrera as they were two players they could complete deals on and he said yes he liked both of them.

elampiro:
* Moyes wrote: “It is no secret that I had put a lot of groundwork into signing [Kroos] for Manchester United.

“What I like about Kroos is that he plays the ball to penetrate, he doesn’t do passing for passing’s sake.”

Kroos has recently revealed that he has spoken to new manager Louis Van Gaal, with one of football’s longest running transfer sagas threatening to drag on past the World Cup.

The former Everton boss also suggested that, given the opportunity, he would have gladly brought ex-Manchester United man Paul Pogba back to the club.

“I would have tried to bring him back to Manchester United,” added Moyes.

“He has flourished in Serie A since joining Juve at the age of 19 but that has been no surprise to those who worked with him at Old Trafford.”

http://www.squawka.com/news/ex-manchester-united-manager-wanted-to-sign-kroos/121523

brush up on your use of english, please....

ground work = scouting!
ground work is quite different from paper work. show us the evidence of united making an official bid to sign kroos & you are telling us about scouting. since when has scouting for a player equivalent to tendering a bid for him?

moyes was sacked in april, kroos' agent said man utd never officially made any bid to sign kroos in april - so which bid are you talking about here? the one you saw in the water you filled in your calabash or the ones moyes saw in his dreams?

* Herrera's deal was to be last year. It failed and that ended it. Gaal could have cancelled any thing on ground if there was still any. Chikena.

herrera's deal was actually pencilled down since the summer of 2012. fergie wanted him after he destroyed our midfield in that europa cup tie when they eliminated us. scout report then said he was too small & too raw to cope in the premier league - then fergie said he would wait another 12 months to see his progress.

the deal didn't reach completion last season because of the timing & the face that bilbao wanted us to pay his release clause - which united weren't ready to pay. since then, personal terms had been agreed & it was only a matter of time before he was going to join us. there's no way van gaal could have stopped it.

MrTA: LvG definitely said he was asked if he wanted Shaw and Herrera as they were two players they could complete deals on and he said yes he liked both of them.

it is a big surprise then cos the same van gaal threw shaw under the bus by saying he was unfit. funny how van gaal would say his own signing was unfit.

you people cannot discern a manager patronising the media to make them believe there's an understanding & a working relationship with giggs/woodward. i am 500% sure van gaal has never seen shaw kick a ball before they were signed.

Transfers are halted at any point whether its 60 % done or 98.564 % done does not matter.
I remember robben to manchester united before he went to chelsea, mikel to united before going to chelsea, roy keane to blackburn rovers before going to united.

if herrera n shaw was 90 % done then all these were 95.74 % done and we all know how they ended.
deals that have not been signed can be halted at any stage.
he approved them and therefore must share in the credit or blame for the transfers.

afrodoc:
he approved them and therefore must share in the credit or blame for the transfers.

Please tell em oo.....

Assuming shaw started putting in "Roberto Carlos-esque" performances, we 'd be treated to lengthy epistles on how tactically astute and eagle -eyed LVG is. Now wey "gbege" wan burst, na another story we dey hear.

Human beings sha...

Poor Moyes....... Not even getting a dint of credit anywhere at all!

afrodoc: Transfers are halted at any point whether its 60 % done or 98.564 % done does not matter.
I remember robben to manchester united before he went to chelsea, mikel to united before going to chelsea, roy keane to blackburn rovers before going to united.

if herrera n shaw was 90 % done then all these were 95.74 % done and we all know how they ended.
deals that have not been signed can be halted at any stage.
he approved them and therefore must share in the credit or blame for the transfers.

your analogies can be quite daft!
robben & mikel didn't want to come to united. chelsea offered them more & they went to chelsea.

fergie didn't pull the plug or cancel the deal - mikel cried before a global audience that he was tricked into signing for united.

how does that relate with herrera/shaw that actually wanted to come to united?

ElFenomeno1: Poor Moyes....... Not even getting a dint of credit anywhere at all!

moyes is an arsëhole!
he never officially tabled a bid for kroos. he just lusted after the german. the groundwork elampiro was hanging on to were the frequent trips moyes took to germany to watch kroos live.

a friend of mine @ munich airport told me moyes watched all the games kroos played live between january and when he was sacked. the only ones he missed are the ones that clashed with united's games.

yet, he never tendered a bid!

coogar:

your analogies can be quite daft!
robben & mikel didn't want to come to united. chelsea offered them more & they went to chelsea.

fergie didn't pull the plug or cancel the deal - mikel cried before a global audience that he was tricked into signing for united.

how does that relate with herrera/shaw that actually wanted to come to united?

Lol i know u r d wisest man in christendom.
when mikel was shining teeth and signing contract for United were you in jail? Oh wise one.
You think if Real or Barca came for herrera at 96
% done he wont drop you and United like a bad habit and cry even more than Mikel?
Oh undaft one talk.
what about roy keane that was happy to sign for blackburn and only stopped signing for them because d offices had closed for the wknd before fergie stole him over the same wknd?

This Coogar sef

What are your thoughts on Wazza and the armband this season?!

Knowing you absolutely hate.. or should i say dislike him!

afrodoc:
Lol i know u r d wisest man in christendom.
when mikel was shining teeth and signing contract for United were you in jail? Oh wise one.

follow my lead if you know i am the wisest.

You think if Real or Barca came for herrera at 96% done he wont drop you and United like a bad habit and cry even more than Mikel?
Oh undaft one talk.

if?
if your aunty had a pair of testiclës, she woulda been your uncle. mikel cried cos he didn't want united. if herrera had gone to barca/madrid, it would be because he didn't want united......that's quite different from your daft analogy that van gaal could have cancelled the deal.

what about roy keane that was happy to sign for blackburn and only stopped signing for them because d offices had closed for the wknd before fergie stole him over the same wknd?

like i said, blackburn didn't pull the plug, keane himself did. shaw & herrera didn't pull the plug, why would van gaal pull it? why are you people so bent on making daft analogies that do not have any similarity to the topic of discussion.

robben pulled the plug on united, fergie did not. mikel pulled the plug on united - after signing. united won the case when FIFA decided the matter & resold mikel to chelsea with a profit of £12m to boot! keane pulled the plug on blackburn - blackburn didn't pull nada......

so how are these examples of players changing their minds analogous to van gaal(manager) pulling the plug? logic is scarce on this thread....afrodoc, save some money & get yourself one instead of psycho-babbling.

ElFenomeno1: This Coogar sef ;DWhat are your thoughts on Wazza and the armband this season?!
Knowing you absolutely hate.. or should i say dislike him!

uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

to whom much is given, so much more is expected. his responsibility only just tripled & that means the criticism of him just tripled. £300k/week + captainship? rooney should better cop a season like suarez did last season, otherwise........

coogar:

follow my lead if you know i am the wisest.



if?
if your aunty had a pair of testiclës, she woulda been your uncle. mikel cried cos he didn't want united. if herrera had gone to barca/madrid, it would be because he didn't want united......that's quite different from your daft analogy that van gaal could have cancelled the deal.




like i said, blackburn didn't pull the plug, keane himself did. shaw & herrera didn't pull the plug, why would van gaal pull it? why are you people so bent on making daft analogies that do not have any similarity to the topic of discussion.

robben pulled the plug on united, fergie did not. mikel pulled the plug on united - after signing. united won the case when FIFA decided the matter & resold mikel to chelsea with a profit of £12m to boot! keane pulled the plug on blackburn - blackburn didn't pull nada......

so how are these examples of players changing their minds analogous to van gaal(manager) pulling the plug? logic is scarce on this thread....afrodoc, save some money & get yourself one instead of psycho-babbling.




uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

to whom much is given, so much more is expected. his responsibility only just tripled & that means the criticism of him just tripled. £300k/week + captainship? rooney should better cop a season like suarez did last season, otherwise........

The point being made but which passed over your head (as usual) is that transfer deals can be halted at any point once the deals have not been signed.
That a deal was 90 percent completed is no excuse.
Van Gaal was asked for his input and he said he approved the deal, that is why the transfer went forward.

elampiro:

So, did Moyes make any bid for Shaw before we eventually signed him?

Did Barca bid for Neymar those 4 years or more they verbally made him their property?

Are we even allowed to bid for a player competing for his top division team when the transfer window haven't opened.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfers-luke-shaw-3059098#.UuNS2xBFDcs
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/luke-shaw-deal-done-almost.383141/
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27368029
That should answer your question about Shaw. The BBC even appears to infer that the deal was done in between windows before van Gaal was made manager.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/368526/Manchester-United-planning-a-summer-bid-for-Southampton-star-Luke-Shaw
That should tell you who originated whatever transfer there is about Shaw.

even more interesting is the discussion on the United fan board that seems to suggest that fans knew of the bid. Mid May around the time the season ended,again before van gaal was announced.
http://community.manutd.com/forums/p/281949/2542009.aspx