justcool: @Deep Sight.
Thanks for your articulate questions, I will reply as follows:

Definitely not within Divinity or in Divine substantiate where failure is impossible. The enormous pressure, resulting from the power of God, in the Divine substantiate makes it impossible for any being, even the most powerful, to deviate from the Will of God. Simply put: In such proximity to God, Who is the Living Power, failure is impossible.
Lucifer failed at cosmic distances from the Divine substantiate plane. When it was said that Lucifer was sent out to aid the developing human spirits in subsequent creation, one must not think that Lucifer incarnated into a particular planet in the world of matter, like we humans incarnate on earth. Lucifer remains outside material creation; but, naturally his volitions took on different forms and worked in all the seven parts of material creation.
It was through these different forms of volitions of Lucifer that he was able to approach the human spirit and deal with the human spirit one on one. In reality, no human spirit can behold Lucifer due difference in specie.
Neither is Lucifer’s working limited to subsequent creation. Even after his failure, he attacked all the planes of creation, even the Primordial spiritual plane. The event which was passed down pictorially in the book of Revelation about a dragon which was waiting for the woman clothed with the sun to deliver a baby so that it (the dragon) can devour the baby, actually happened in the highest heights in creation. The woman clothed in the sun is the primordial Queen; the child that the dragon wished to devour was the son of man; and the dragon, a volition of Lucifer. Only after this struggle against the primordial queen was Lucifer’s influence forcibly limited to subsequent creation by a host of angels who battled his volitions and drove them below the Primordial, spiritual, and animistic spheres. This is also reported in the revelation, when it was said that the dragon was thrown from heaven to earth by arch angel Michael and his host of angels. However this is going too deep into the mysteries of creation and too far away from the topic at hand. I just mentioned it to show you that Lucifer stands outside creation, and not limited to earth or subsequent creation. Since we human spirits are accustomed to view ourselves as the center of all events.
About “places outside creation that are not within Divinity.” Definitely! Being accustomed to seeing ourselves as the center of all events and places, the human spirit often erroneously thinks that he is capable of knowing the extent of existence, and its opposite, non-existence. Indeed it is absurd to think that this particular creation (from the primordial to coarsest gross matter) is the only creation of God. God could have uncountable number of such creations! However all that we need to know and can fully comprehend is limited within this our particular creation; we can also faintly comprehend how this our particular creation relates to the Divine substantial realm, when this knowledge is passed down to us. But knowledge of other creations of God is not necessary for us to have. The human spirit, along with other creatures in this creation, originated in the creation, its fate and path starts and ends in this creation. It cannot ascend further or above than this creation, neither than it sink below this creation. Even in his thinking and intuitive perception, this is impossible. However, the path of Lucifer is different, for Lucifer does not belong to creation.
Therefore, the fact that man thinks that he knows or can know all the places in existence only shows the arrogance of man and his always thinking in reference to himself.
You have to understand that the idea of “place” or “where” in itself involves a limitation. Limited to the creatures ability to conceive. I have heard where people try to philosophize that God is the totality of all that exists; hence all existence and all that can ever exist is part of God or God manifesting Himself; and since existence is infinite, God is infinite; that there is no place outside of God. Perhaps you hold this view too, (correct me if I’m wrong, and if so, I apologize beforehand)
It is my perception that this view is wrong. One must separate God from existence and non-existence. God is not limited to existence; neither is He limited to non-existence. God in not within the realm of existence, neither is He within the realm of non-existence. Both existence and its opposite (non-existence) are human concepts; and no human concept can come close to the nature of God. Both existence and non-existence are the radiation of God, or consequence of the radiation of God; they both relate to the radiation of God and not God himself Who stands above all.
You can apply the same to the concept of “place” and “where”. Both the “place,” “where” and “no place,” “Nowhere” that we can conceive even with our highest intuitive perception, remains within this creation. Whatever lies outside this creation will remain a perpetual mystery to us. We humans must accept our limitation.
We must also accept that even our highest conception of God must remain a belittlement of God.

Back to Lucifer, saying that Lucifer fell below creation is as good as saying that: with his faliure Lucifer, distanced himself further away from his origin,(or from God)than the entire creation can. No creature in this creation can go that far away from the Light and remain in exsistance; such would be imposible. The deepest depth any creature can fall has to remain within this creation. Hence only Him(Parsifal) who came from above creation, could descend lower than creation, into the realm of Lucifer to bind Lucifer. No creature in creation could have achieved this.



Your assumption is wrong. The lower regions and higher regions are the non-physical parts of this part of the world of matter. You already know that there are seven parts of the worlds of matter, and each part has a physical plane, and in each physical plane there is a planet harboring human life. It is impossible to go from one part of the seven parts of the world of matter to another. I have explained this many times. I have explained this already in this thread too; read my earlier posts in this thread.


You already know that this impossible. What’s the point if an “if an impossibility happens” question? If it happens, and if I’m sure that the scientist is not lying or making a mistake, then I would cease to regard the Grail message as the absolute truth. Since such will be dogmatism and blind faith which the Grail message warns about.

As always, Thanks and remain blessed.

Thanks for these interesting clarifications.

justcool:

The true owner of the physical body does not incur as much karma as the spirit who forcibly took the reins of the body from the true owner. However the true owner is not totally absolved of Kramer, because she/he is indolent. Only an indolent spirit can lose possession of her/his physical body. Hence reciprocal reaction resulting from such indolence will surly strike the true owner of the body.

If a possessed person commits murder, for example, while she/he is possessed; the reciprocal action resulting from the murder will revenge itself more heavily on the soul doing the possession than the one who got dispossessed of its physical body. However she/he is not totally absolved of this reciprocal action, and must receive a part of it, because if he wasn’t indolent in the first place, the crime would not have been committed.

The departed takes control through the blood radiation which is not suited for the soul of the true owner of the physical body. This blood radiation, which holds the physical body and soul together, does not give this soul a right firm hold on the physical body. Hence another soul in the beyond can take possession of this not-so-firmly held physical body and succeed in pushing the true owner away momentarily and for a long time. Just as any soul wearing a physical body makes an impression on the back brain which modifies the impression and passes on to the frontal brain, which in turn, modifies the impression and sends signals to the mouth to speak, the body to move and etc.; the departed soul makes an impression on the back brain of the loosely held physical body and the rest of the process is the same. The brain responds better to the impression from the departed soul because the rightful owner of the physical is too weak to make its own impression felt by the brain; the blood radiation of the physical body does not offer its (the souls) impressions the right path to brain.

It’s just like a TV that is not properly tuned to the right station. It may end up picking another station's signals or another station's signals may distort its right signals and consequently a distorted picture will be produced.

Also think about CCTV, s. (Closed Circuit TV). This is a system where each camera or many cameras are connected to a particular monitor. Sometimes this connection is wireless, through signals. When the camera or the cameras are turned off, or are faulty, the monitor may start picking up signals from another camera that does not belong to that particular system.

I experience this every day with my car. I have a camera at the back of my car, and a monitor on the dashboard. The camera comes on when I put my car in reverse, so that I can see my back while backing up. And when I’m moving forward, the camera turns off. So sometimes when I’m driving through a neighborhood that have security cameras. My dashboard monitor will come on displaying image from one of those nearby security cameras. Due to homogeneity in frequency, my dashboard monitor, is able to pick up signals from another camera, while the one belonging to it is turned off.

The camera represents the soul; while the monitor represents the physical body. It’s the same process. An indolent soul is like a camera that is turned off or one whose signals are too weak. The physical body (the monitor) as long as it’s on, does not stop working on that account; only that now it’s at the mercy of another nearby camera that operates at the same frequency. We can liken the frequency with the blood radiation. A person with the wrong kind of blood radiation is like a monitor tuned to a different frequency to that which its camera is tuned. Such a monitor is at the mercy of nearby cameras that operate at its frequency. Even if these cameras are not designed for it.

This is most illuminating: and the analogy of the cameras really resonated with me. Honestly you are indeed the master of analogies. You make really great analogies that bring happenings home.

However, only a human soul can possess a person. A demon cannot.

What exactly is a demon. My perception (correct me if I am wrong) is that it is an animistic being that has taken on form and life from the volitions of spirit beings (including humans). If this is the case, and the demon came to exist from the volitions of humans, is it not possible that that volition could be so strong as to dominate the mind of the person from which it issued: and thus attract the consequent demon into permanent residence around the life of such a person. Could such a person not be said to be possessed by a demon. Additionally, if such a demon attracts thought forms of similar nature from a large amount of people, could such a demon not become a powerful entity exerting huge magnetic influence on spheres of people and their lives?

Very good question! First, I will throw more light on what a propensity is. This time I will define it with an analogy.

A propensity can be likened to an addiction. The spirits addiction to anything below the spiritual planes.

What brought the spirit germs down to earth is their desire for development or consciousness which can only be achieved through experiencing the radiations in the world of matter. Hence in order to awaken this consciousness the spirit germs nipp on this and that radiation; in so doing their virtues or qualities awaken. And finally to fully enjoy these radiations and awaken their virtues or spiritual talents to greater degree, they incarnate on earth.

Here we notice two very important distinctions: (1) what motivates them to taste or indulge in this or that radiation is their urge for awakening, maturity, or consciousness. What emanates from them is the desire for consciousness. (2) They are not addicted to these radiations, and hence cannot be described as having propensity. At best we can say that they are driven by curiosity.

A man who out of curiosity accepts a pain killer; or a man who out of the desire to numb a headache accepts a pain killer cannot be described as a drug addict. Even though he goes to a drug store to buy this pain killer, the core of his motive is the desire to cure his headache. You cannot say that the desire for painkiller emanates from him or his body at this point. But after taking this or that pain killer over time he becomes addicted, and at this point his body now yearns for the pain killers. This addiction or this yearning from his body is unnatural and it keeps him hanging around hospitals and drug stores!

Hence the desire for gross material activates, like sexual intimacy, is alien to the spirit for the spirit has no need for it. But the spirit, at the stage of being a spirit germ, desires to taste of the radiations arising from these activities, in order to mature and awaken. What emanates from the spirit is the desire for development, gross material experiencing is only a means to achieving this end; and not the end itself.

Moreover the behavior of spirit-germs as they descend into matter or awaken to consciousness should not be used as a yardstick to measure the ideal spiritual behavior. In the early years of school, a child may soil his cloths often, but an adult should not see that as an excuse that it the intrinsic nature of man to soil his cloths. At the beginning of its development, the spirit-germ strives towards the worlds of matter for its development; at a stage in its development, it know nothing other than to strive towards the luminous heights, away from matter. Just as a seed, when initially planted, sprouting, or germinating, grows or extends its root downwards; only to start growing its stem upwards and only towards the light after germination. You cannot say that growing downwards is an intrinsic nature of trees. This is rough analogy though.
I hope this is clear enough. I can elaborate further if you want me to.

The analogies about medication and the plant completely nail away my concerns. Brilliant analogies sir, as always.

To be born with a propensity does not absolve you of any responsibly. It could be a propensity that you developed in one of your past lives. Now that you are on earth and have recognized this propensity is the time to rid yourself of it. You have hitherto failed to achieve this because you considered it, as can be seen from your statement above, as an integral part of your spirit. And you can never succeed in ridding yourself of it if your fight it with your physical body, your thoughts or the might of your brain.
The urge for purity must arise from your spirit. Moreover you should pray with your intuition for the strength to cleave through this propensity. Like I told you sometime age earlier, in another thread, "all genuine healing comes from within."



Here you are wrong, my dear friend. Hence you have not been able to wean this dependency. The urge for physical intimacy is not an integral part of the spirit since the spirit has no need for it. If this urge emanates from your spirit, then it has become a propensity in you. Through wrong and over indulgence, it has soiled your spirit. But even this dirt cannot and can never be an intrinsic part of the spirit. It can only stain the outmost part of your spirit, the core of your spirit remains chaste. For chastity is integral part of your spirit. It emanates from the core of the spirit and hence stronger than any propensity, and only in the strength of this chastity can you rid your soul or spirit of any propensity.

Very well accepted: however the urges I speak of were not se.xual in nature. Perhaps on a Philosophical Freudian level there is some co-relation, I don't know, but it is a far more puzzling thing than mere se.xuality. Anyway we can perhaps discuss that one off line sometime.

And no, i do not feel insulted in the least: I would not have raised it if I was shy on the matter. Yes, I do have a lustful side, I am only human.

You need a new astral body for each incarnation, because the astral body and the physical body go hand in hand. Each physical body is suited only for its astral body; indeed the physical body is only a reflection of the astral body. Hence the astral body remains in the vicinity of the physical body after physical death. The decomposition of the astral body precedes the decomposition of the physical body, just as its formation precedes the formation of the physical body.

Hence after physical death, before the soul can incarnate again it must have detached from its astral body, it cannot reincarnate with the same astral body that it used in its previous incarnation.

If the soul didn’t go as far as into the ethereal realm, which would have necessitated it shading its fine gross material body as well, in its next incarnation it will only need a new astral body through which it can incarnate into a new physical body. Hence it still wears the same body of fine gross mater as it wore in its previous incarnation; but for each incarnation it needs a new astral body and a new physical body.

If the soul had shed its fine gross material body after physical death, and hence had stepped into the ethereal realm, and consequently wearing an ethereal body as its outmost body; then for it to reincarnate on earth, it must receive a new body of fine gross matter, then a new astral body and consequently a new physical body. Hence both his astral body and the body of fine gross matter will be different from the ones he wore in his previous earth-life, yet the ethereal body will remain the same.

Had he ascended into Paradise and have to incarnate on earth again, he will have to put on new animistic bodies, new ethereal body, new fine gross material body, new astral body, and finally new physical body. Hence all his cloaks will be different from the ones he wore in his previous earth-life.

Whatever the case maybe, each incarnation requires a new physical and astral bodies. Both bodies are closely connected. Since the physical is a reflection of the astral body, it implies that each physical body is uniquely designed for an astral body, and whatever happens to the astral body manifests in the physical body as well.

I see. Thanks.

I do not see anything binding here; however, it depends on their attitudes towards each other.

A pledge and an oath are not the same thing. An oath is like swearing. Here the individual places his will above every other thing. This is very wrong and unnatural because man in all his promises and pledges must make sure that this promising or pledging is in accord with the Will of God, and will always leave room for the Will of God to take precedence if this pledge he made is not in accordance with God’s all holy will.

A man sees a woman they start dating, he promises her marriage and even does the traditional marriage or church wedding. Along the line he discovers that they are not compactible; they quarrel and break the marriage. Still there is absolutely nothing wrong in this ending of an unnatural union. Such ending will not result in a non-physical bonding; since by ending the disharmonious union, the couple has shown precedence to the will of God. It would be a greater sin to continue the marriage when they both know that they are incompatible. The marriage may survive but as a business deal; such is unnatural before the laws of God. Even if they learn how to tolerate each other or deal with each other, the union remains a sin. For both parties spiritual accent will be disturbed by such union. And there are many such marriages today. They are nothing but prostitution.
Love and compatibility should be the bases of marriage; where any of the two is missing, marriage should immediately be ended.

Traditional rites, especially as it is practiced in the part of Igbo where I’m from, and especially the way it is practiced today, will not result in unnatural binding that will outlive the couple’s earth-lives. Basically the woman is given a glass of wine, from which she takes a sip and gives her husband. The husband takes a sip and gives back to wife. Actually this is a better way or symbolizing what a harmonious marriage should, better than the western way where the couple are told to kiss each other on the altar right after being pronounced husband and wife. This kissing in front of everybody, even children and especially on the altar, is very wrong because it places physical union as the major aim of marriage. However, let’s not dwell on this.

Now back to your question; in order not to give a very long answer here, there is no point treating each different scenario. As long one makes his promise out of pure love, such a person is protected from unnatural ties. Pure love will not allow you to see you wife or wife-to-be as a property or something that belongs to you, which you would rather die than let go off. Such attitude will only be selfishness and not love which is selfless. It is such attitude or unhealthy attachment that can cause unhealthy binding that can outlive the individual’s earth-life, irrespective of what the outward earthly circumstances are.

Also one must place the will of God before all else. The purpose of marriage is to work harmoniously together towards the Light. And to love somebody doesn’t necessarily mean that you can achieve marriage with that person, with marriage compatibility (having complementary characters or behavior) is indispensible. Hence quarrels, nagging, and bickering are sure signs of incompatibility not necessarily lack of love.

In such cases, where compatibility is lacking, the most loving gift to give the woman is to end the marriage.

Profound.

Nobody said that the dead body still feels pain. The pain that the soul feel stems from its attachment to the body which is no longer a part of it, and which was never really a part of it, but only a cloak it wore. Out lack knowledge of the structure of creation and out of spiritual indolence, some people no longer consider their physical bodies as a cloak; they consider it not only a part of them but the only them there is!

This unnatural attachment causes them to suffer when the body is attacked, eventhough they nolonger wear this body. Look around, you will see this phenomenon in different forms. A mother may love her child so much that when the child is sick, the mother feels the pains of the disease! It is this attachment that causes the pain and not necessarily a direct physical connection to the child. Another man loves his house so much that he feels physical pain as he watches his house being torn down. Some people even have a heart attack and etc. It does not mean that the house feels any pain; the pain arises from the man’s unnatural attachment to something that is not a part of him. Any wonder why such a man would be bound to the house after death.

Humans develop unnatural attachment towards many things, even sports. What about the people that becomes sick when their favorite team loses. Or the people that actually feel PHYSICAL pain when a goal is scored against their favorite team? Surely you must have observed this phenomenon.

I can go on and on about this. Indeed I watched scientific experiment where people feel pain that was not real just because they had expected it. Such an indolent soul, who still feels the pains of autopsy, simply does not know that the physical body is not him but only a cloak he had just taken off.

The analogies nail it again. Excellent sire.

The above tells you everything! If only you realize what you said here! Those that you hardly feel sexual to are those that you actually love! The love you feel for them will not let you attach anything dirty, even the smallest dirty thought, to them. Towards them you are selfless although unconsciously.

How love teaches us everything!! And the confession you made above just showed that you are still capable of genuine love! Hence you are not spiritually dead!!

This love clearly shows you that sexually, you are not as you should be yet! Hence you will never try to become intimate with such a loved person because you are still lustful. And this is not only you, don’t take my explanation personal, don’t take offence; I’m just explaining a phenomena to you.

It’s like a cook who knows that she has not perfected her cooking, and hence would rather give her food to her dogs than her children, out of fear of poising them. This love in your hearth clearly points out to you the road to the luminous heights; it clearly shows you which path to thread. It shows you three major things: (1) You are still lustful (the cook hasn’t learnt how to cook in the right manner), (2) You don’t love those ones you feel sexually attracted to as much as the ones you would rather not have sex with (the cook does not love her dogs as much as her kids)(3) It also shows that this lust, which claimed to be an intergral part of your spirit does not emarnate from the core of your spirit, otherwise it would easily unite with the love that emarnates from your spirit. It is only like a dirt that hands on your spirit. If it came from the core of your spirit as an integral part, you would only gladly share it the people you love and will not feel an inward desire not to. Since that which comes from your spirit is the highest and the most loving you can give; you will naturaly feel compleled to share it with your loved ones.

If you can only purify your cooking, i.e. free yourself from lust. And strive to love everybody equally. Once you rid yourself of this lust, first the urge for sexual union will reduce, and will only arise when there is perfect harmony. If your free your spirit from this dirt that is attached to it, your unhealthy lustfulness would cease; then only a healthy desire for intimacy would arise from your physical body, at the right time; a pure desire that will only set in when there is parfect spiritual harmoney between you and your partner. Such physical intimacy would not only relieve your physical need but will also further your spirit and strenghten the harmoney between you and your partner, producing greater power.

In other words, once the cook has learned to love her dogs as much as kids, and most importantly, when she has learned to cook very well without the fear of poisoning; she would only cook clean meals which she would feel compelled, by love, to share with her children! And such food would only nurish this children.

Just as now, you would rather not aprroach those you love sexually; when you rid yourself of this lust, you would rather not aproach the "worldly woman" sexualy anymore, in fear of geting contaminated again or becoming lustful again! Nobody would share his clean house with a pig! He would rather open his door to only worthy and clean(non-lustful) people who would not soil his clean house. Nobody cooks a clean meal and shares it with a pig!

I will give another analogy: When a man is dirty and sweating, after hard physical labour. In such condition he wouldnt let his kids hug him or come close to him; he would not even go into thier room or sit on thier bed; but he may not mind playing with his dog when he is dirty, niether would he mind going into his pigs shelter. But after showering and becoming clean again, he would not go and play with dogs, neither would he go into his pigs barn, nor would he feel any desire to prevent his kids from hugging him. When he is neat, he would rather go into thier room, sit on thier bed, play with, carry them on his back and etc.

Please relate this analogy to the way you feel towards women.

And when I say that you lust, please don’t take it personal or as an attack; I personally have experienced what you just described above. Believe me; I’m not better than you in this.

This is VERY useful, and many thanks for your honest perceptions. No, I do not feel insulted in the least, why would i? I am what I am and truth cannot be shied away from. Indeed I have always said I have a problem with lust. . .but who doesn't? These are things we battle with, and I only hope I am even battling at all.

In terms of what you said about purity, that has always been my view. However it is not always easy to live through that, or explain that to a beloved one. Indeed, it is often impossible.

Thanks! I appreciate this.

As always, remain blessed.

[quote author=justcool]

The appreciation is all mine.

Hi Justcool and DeepSight.

My perception and experience is that the events with Lucifer, the dragon and the queen of heaven did not take place in the primordial or spiritual planes but rather took place in the world of matter (the ethereal plane to be precise). My sensing is that it is impossible for darkness (in this case the evil promptings of lucifer) to penetrate to the to realms of Light which in this context are the spiritual and primordial spiritual planes. At the command of God the Father, volition of Lucifer was radiated out of the divine sphere into creation and this living volition of Lucifer descended until the transitory plane between the the world of matter and the animistic realm. It was at this transitory plane that the living volition of Lucifer have its field of activity and it was from here that it directed the development and evolution of the physical cloak of the the freshly incarnated human spirits especially the human brain. It was here too that he opposed the will of God, and thus automatically severed the radiation link between him and the divine sphere. The fallen Lucifer did send his volition to attack all that is of God including the future son of man, the primordial queen but these evil volition because of their density were held back at this transitory plane and could go no further. It is at this point that the recognition fully dawned on Lucifer that he has indeed fallen and lost connection with God the Father. The evil activities of lucifer have the potential to undermine or entirely prevent the proposed work of redemption by both the son of man and later the son of God because this transitory plane although it is the highest point in the world of matter is the transformation plane of different spiritual currents/energies that streams into material creations from above. Currents that are indispensable for the germination, growth and evolution of material creations as well as spirtual and animistic beings that have incarnated in material creations. Automatically host of angels and other beings were sent to this sphere to battle the fallen Lucifer and his evil volitions and other hosts that succumbed to his evil principle. The fallen Lucifer and its followers lost the battle and lucifer was "chased" out of this highest point in the world of matter into a region under the world of matter. This epic battle have filtered to other parts of material creation through the mediation of servants of God that are called for such purpose. Thus some parts it can be found in the sacred scriptures of religions.

It was impossible for Lucifer to fail even in the primordial spiritual and spiritual spheres. The pressure of the power of God is still so strong that a deviation from the will of God is impossible. It was only in material creation which are cosmic distances from God can alien volition arise in Lucifer. Evil or darkness cannot ascend to the kingdom of God. All battles and temptation between the Light and darkness only happen in the realms of material creation. The fall of man, the battle between Light and darkness as reported in Revelation, the temptation of Jesus, etc all happened in the world of matter. As always stay blessed.

m_nwankwo: Hi Justcool and DeepSight.

My perception and experience is that the events with Lucifer, the dragon and the queen of heaven did not take place in the primordial or spiritual planes but rather took place in the world of matter (the ethereal plane to be precise). My sensing is that it is impossible for darkness (in this case the evil promptings of lucifer) to penetrate to the to realms of Light which in this context are the spiritual and primordial spiritual planes. At the command of God the Father, volition of Lucifer was radiated out of the divine sphere into creation and this living volition of Lucifer descended until the transitory plane between the the world of matter and the animistic realm. It was at this transitory plane that the living volition of Lucifer have its field of activity and it was from here that it directed the development and evolution of the physical cloak of the the freshly incarnated human spirits especially the human brain. It was here too that he opposed the will of God, and thus automatically severed the radiation link between him and the divine sphere. The fallen Lucifer did send his volition to attack all that is of God including the future son of man, the primordial queen but these evil volition because of their density were held back at this transitory plane and could go no further. It is at this point that the recognition fully dawned on Lucifer that he has indeed fallen and lost connection with God the Father. The evil activities of lucifer have the potential to undermine or entirely prevent the proposed work of redemption by both the son of man and later the son of God because this transitory plane although it is the highest point in the world of matter is the transformation plane of different spiritual currents/energies that streams into material creations from above. Currents that are indispensable for the germination, growth and evolution of material creations as well as spirtual and animistic beings that have incarnated in material creations. Automatically host of angels and other beings were sent to this sphere to battle the fallen Lucifer and his evil volitions and other hosts that succumbed to his evil principle. The fallen Lucifer and its followers lost the battle and lucifer was "chased" out of this highest point in the world of matter into a region under the world of matter. This epic battle have filtered to other parts of material creation through the mediation of servants of God that are called for such purpose. Thus some parts it can be found in the sacred scriptures of religions.

It was impossible for Lucifer to fail even in the primordial spiritual and spiritual spheres. The pressure of the power of God is still so strong that a deviation from the will of God is impossible. It was only in material creation which are cosmic distances from God can alien volition arise in Lucifer. Evil or darkness cannot ascend to the kingdom of God. All battles and temptation between the Light and darkness only happen in the realms of material creation. The fall of man, the battle between Light and darkness as reported in Revelation, the temptation of Jesus, etc all happened in the world of matter. As always stay blessed.

Thanks for the illumination: but, re: the bold above - does this mean that Lucifer is in fact the "creator" of physical man?

Deep Sight:

Thanks for the illumination: but, re: the bold above - does this mean that Lucifer is in fact the "creator" of physical man?

No, Lucifer is not the "creator" of our physical bodies. Our spirits and various envelopes or cloaks of the spirit were created by God, albeit indirectly. Lucifer was sent by God to help the human spirit to awaken its talents and develop. To do this the new spirit seeds need cloaks or bodies that can absorb the material radiations in full vigor and relay it to the spirit. The physical body that the spirit seeds acquired from ape like animals need a transformation from ape like bodies to the human body that we know today. Part of the mission of Lucifer is to be a mediator in this transformation of the ape like body to the human body via his radiations. This among other things resulted in the upright figure, massive development of the brain and the ability to talk and evolve a language. Lucifer's radiation to the astral bodies of the wandering incarnated spirits activated the "astral DNA" codes that resulted in the biological genetic mutations that underpins the evolution of the human body from ape like bodies. His success particularly with the development of the human intellect made him indulge in the volition that he is the starting point for these changes instead of being just a mediator of Gods power. This was the beginning of his end for whenever a creature or a radiation of God (no matter how exalted) imagines himself to be God, then such a being will loose connection with Life (God) and the loss of the connection ends in the fall of such a being. For a being whose origin is with creation, the fall will result in spiritual death, the cessation of self consciousness and for a being that has its origin outside of creation, ie, a divine being, the fall will result in expulsion from the divine, the spiritual, the animistic and the world of matter. We can not conceive it but there is nothing more terrible for a being who have once experienced the divine worlds to loose the ability to experience in the divine worlds. That is the state that Lucifer has put himself. As always stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

No, Lucifer is not the "creator" of our physical bodies. Our spirits and various envelopes or cloaks of the spirit were created by God, albeit indirectly. Lucifer was sent by God to help the human spirit to awaken its talents and develop. To do this the new spirit seeds need cloaks or bodies that can absorb the material radiations in full vigor and relay it to the spirit. The physical body that the spirit seeds acquired from ape like animals need a transformation from ape like bodies to the human body that we know today. Part of the mission of Lucifer is to be a mediator in this transformation of the ape like body to the human body via his radiations. This among other things resulted in the upright figure, massive development of the brain and the ability to talk and evolve a language. Lucifer's radiation to the astral bodies of the wandering incarnated spirits activated the "astral DNA" codes that resulted in the biological genetic mutations that underpins the evolution of the human body from ape like bodies. His success particularly with the development of the human intellect made him indulge in the volition that he is the starting point for these changes instead of being just a mediator of Gods power. This was the beginning of his end for whenever a creature or a radiation of God (no matter how exalted) imagines himself to be God, then such a being will loose connection with Life (God) and the loss of the connection ends in the fall of such a being. For a being whose origin is with creation, the fall will result in spiritual death, the cessation of self consciousness and for a being that has its origin outside of creation, ie, a divine being, the fall will result in expulsion from the divine, the spiritual, the animistic and the world of matter. We can not conceive it but there is nothing more terrible for a being who have once experienced the divine worlds to loose the ability to experience in the divine worlds. That is the state that Lucifer has put himself. As always stay blessed.

Thanks again. Is his condition reversible in the event that he changes his volition?

M_nwankwo. Thanks for sharing your perception which is enriching, and which I respect very much; however my perception differs with yours in the issue of Lucifer on many points. I was going to let this issue slide by but I felt compelled to offer mine right next to yours so that each individual would have the opportunity of examining each view. My aim is not to prove you wrong or anything like that; my aim is just to give readers including you, the opportunity to examine my humble point of view.

I advise every reader of these different views to read the lecture, “The mystery of Lucifer,” from volume II of the Grail message. Please place the words of the Grail above mine, where mine goes against the words of the Grail message, quickly let go of my words.

I will start with the points where I agree with m_nwankwo. It is right to say that nothing evil can enter the kingdom of God; no evil volition can enter the kingdom of God. M_nwankwo’s perception regarding Lucifer and the place where he struggled against the Primordial Queen will hold true of one considers Lucifer’s volition, the dragon evil. But there is a fine distinction which cannot be over looked. Lucifer’s principle which is embodied in the dragon is not evil; rather it is the wrong principle. There is a fine distinction between that which is evil and that which is wrong. The Grail message called Lucifer’s principle wrong, and not evil.

That which is wrong is not necessarily evil. Hence even in the Primordial spiritual planes we have children who may later grow into adulthood. At childhood level corresponds to a degree of growth where the being is not fully matured enough to deal with all issues, and hence can introduce a wrong principle or a principle that does not yet fully accord with the will of God. Hence even called ones from the Primordial spiritual plane had to be trained before sent into their mission. Before this training the being is not evil, but may introduce a wrong principle hence he appears as a child. Even the son of man started as a baby when He incarnated into the Primordial spiritual plane; many people have been granted the mercy of seeing the spiritually radiated picture of the primordial queen carrying the child(infant) Parsifal. The question is why was He a child? He had not fully matured into His mission and to undergo centuries of training in the primordial spiritual sphere, and as He matured, His primodial spiritual body also matured. He gradually grows from child hood to adulthood, only before then could He enter His mission. Even Isaiah saw this and reported, “He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right.” Suffice also for me to say that the birth of Imanuel which Isaiah reported refers to the highest heights in creation, the incarnation of the son of man into the Primordial spiritual plane.
The prerequisite for entering the kingdom of God is purity! Any pure being can remain there even if the being is not yet matured. At the stage of immaturity a wrong principle can arise; but we use the word “wrong” for the lack of a better word. Perhaps replacing with “immature”, or "not yet fully strong to the will of God,” or "Inadequate" will bring us to a nearer to the right understanding.

There is nothing supernatural even in the highest heights in creation, the same laws which are intrinsic abilities of species manifest in all the planes of creation. Just as a child born into the earth has to learn how to use its body and grow to maturity, a Divine being incarnating into the Primordial spiritual plane also had to learn how its primordial spiritual body and how to operate in this new environment. Hence the son of man, although born out of Divinity unsubstantiate, had to start as an infant in the Primordial spiritual sphere. Only when He grew into adulthood could He enter His mission. This fact is important, hence I put it in bold, and I will return to it later. Even when urgent necessity arouse to save mankind, the son of man could not be sent, because He was still a youth then, and hence has not matured enough to enter into mission. Jesus had to be sent instead. That fact that He was a youth at the time of Jesus was mentioned in the lecture, “The Stranger,” Volume I of the Grail Message.

The fact that Lucifer’s struggle against the Primordial queen took place in the Primordial spiritual planes and not in the ethereal plane is clear if one considers these points:
(1) The Primordial queen issues from Divinity substantiate and had never incarnated into the world of matter. Only in the Primordial spiritual plane does she descend to pass down the son of man, she descends into the Grail castle to receive a mantle of covering of primordial spiritual substance. The radiation, known as the son of man, had to emanate from Imanuel and sink into Elizabeth, the primordial queen, who then descends into the Grail castle at the Primordial spiritual plane to pass him down. Through this sinking into Elizabeth, the son of man receives a covering of Primordial spiritual substance form the radiation of the mantle of Elizabeth. The Primodial queen Elizabeth had always dwelled in the highest hieghts. Even from the Lecture "Cult" in Volume I of the Grail message, about the Primodial queen, we read, "She however has dwelt from all eternity in the Highest Heights, and has never been incarnated in an earthly body!" It is my perception that the writer of the Grail message could never reffer to any part of material creation or subsequent creation as "Highest Heights." It is also my perception that there is a reason why that expression "Highest Heights" is emphacized(each word began with a capital letter) and italicized in the Grail Message. This expresion only reffers to the Grail Castle at the highest border of the Primodial spiritual planes or the Divine substantial sphere.
This is the only way Divine unsubstantiate beings enter creation. For their entrance into subsequent creation, Elizabeth is not needed, here two other beings, Therese and Maria comes into play. Hence the entrance of the son of man into the ethereal realm does not require the queen of heaven to pass him down there. Entering into the ethereal plane or incarnating into the ethereal plane is fully explained in the Grail message; this is accomplished by descending into a flower and has nothing to do with passing down by a woman or Elizabeth.
It is the passing down of the son of man, by Elizabeth, into the Primordial spiritual plane that the writer of revelation was shown. The person who passed it down on earth could only relate it to giving birth, but this is not giving birth in the earthly sense.
(2) Lucifer could not have been driven out of the highest part of the ethereal to be left to operate in the other parts of the ethereal realm or other part of the world of matter. It is like saying that Adam and Eve where driven out of a garden on earth to another part of the earth; such is illogical as the Grail Message explained. Lucifer’s influence, after attacking Elizabeth in the Primordial spiritual plane or the kingdom of God, was limited to subsequent creation which at that point was not the kingdom of God. Indeed Lucifer attacked all the planes of creation, and not only subsequent creation, he actually left a huge wound on the Spiritual plane which manifested in the lamb at the steps of thrown of God. However only in subsequent creation could his disturbing influence find real and long lasting anchorage and effect. There was a reason why the Angels could not fight Lucifer in the world of matter, even the highest part of ethereal matter! For after the failure of Lucifer, all that is material belonged to the realm of Darkness. The Angles, originating in the kingdom of God, could only fight Lucifer in the kingdom of God. Driving Lucifer out of the world of matter was reserved to the son of man alone. Only He could achieve this, and only He was trained and prepared for this battle, a preparation that took thousands of years.
(3)Another fact indicating where this struggle of Lucifer against the Primodial queen took place is the fact that the receiver of Revelation referred to the place as heavens; Hence above, or at least above him (The receiver of revelation) If one remembers that Revelation was received in the Island of Patmos which is in the Primordial spiritual plane, far above Paradise; then it becomes clear that he could not have been writing about an even that happened in the ethereal realm far below him. The Island of Patmos is the fifth plane (counting from above downwards) in the Primordial spiritual planes. This is where the Revelation was given (The Grail Message confirms this) and passed down to all the planes below. Hence for John, in the Primordial spiritual plane, to consider this place "heavens", it must have been far above him and not far below him. The fact that he refers the highest plane of the Primordial spiritual planes as heaven is found all over Revelation. I.e. when he described the descent of Parsifal from the Primordial spiritual planes to bind Lucifer, He wrote “and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.”(Revelation 9:1)
The star that fell from heaven unto the earth refers to the incarnation of the son of man on earth, from where He descended to the bottomless pit and bonded Lucifer. The "key" simply refers to His ability, as coming from the highest, to descend to the lowest spheres. Spheres below creation. To every creature in creation, this depth appears bottomless(endless void), due to the creature’s inability to penetrate to its end; hence John the Primordial spirit referred to it as bottomless pit. This verse from Revelation simply show that the place referred to as Heaven is not the ethereal realm which is far below Primordial creation. John referred to the place from where the son of man came as heavens (I saw a star fell from[b] heaven[/b]), he could not, in the same revelation, later refer a plane below him as heavens.
Like I said earlier, we human spirits are accustomed to seeing ourselves and our environments as the center of all events. The reality is that we are insignificant in scale of things. The Revelation which was handed down from the Primordial spiritual planes is not in reference to subsequent creation alone. Most of the things talked about in Revelation are above subsequent creation. Man is inclined to think that God and Lucifer are fighting over him; however this is arrogance. For mankind is just insignificant creature in the scale of things and events happening in creation.
Please read the lecture “The Primordial Spiritual Planes VII” from Volume III of the Grail Message to see where Revelation of John was given.


I can go on and on but let me summarize. Indeed no failure can occur in Paradise or the Primordial spiritual planes, or the kingdom of God; but growth still occurs there. Just as a child is not evil but may do immature things as he learns to use his physical body or as his spirit gradually unfolds. Despite this, the child remains pure not evil. Lucifer’s operation outside his origin started like that of a child, overtime his volition should have matured and united completely with the will of God, as happens with all beings sent from a higher plane to a lower plane. But Lucifer’s didn’t. Even his dissention and expulsion, separation, or failure did not happen overnight but gradually. Lucifer does not belong to creation but remained outside creation, completely outside material creation. At first his principle or volition, although wrong or immature, could cause disturbance in all the planes of creation, because (1) he originates above creation and bears enough power to send his volition in all the planes of creation. The pressure in the primordial creation is strong be terribly weak compared that in the Divine sphere; hence a Divine being can send his volition even into Primordial creation. (2) This volition, resulting from Luciferian principle, at this point is not really evil, but rather “wrong” There is a fine distinction here.

He sent this wrong volition to the primordial queen in the highest part of creation; she descended there to fulfill her task of passing down Imanuel the son of man. But this wrong volition could not gain a firm hold on this plane; neither could it gain a firm hold in the Primordial queen who swung powerfully in the will of God. Hence it rebounded off her and off primordial creation and sank into subsequent creation. Hence the writer of revelation wrote that the current of dark waters vomited by the dragon to drawn the woman clothed in the sun was swallowed up by the earth (subsequent creation). Only after this incidence was Lucifer’s disturbing influence forcibly limited to the worlds of matter or subsequent creation. Rather than violating the correct assertion that no evil can exists in the Kingdom of God, this event confirms it.

But man is accustomed to thinking that Paradise is a place where one lives carefreely and completely absolved from all responsibilty. But on the contrary, those in Paradise have learnt to swing only in the will of God. This requires an eternal exertion, neither resting nor slaking. Where ever slacking seeks to arise, the being will automatically or gradually be expulsed or pushed out by the pressure. The spiritual always possessed free will and can always choose to deviate from the will of God; however choosing to deviate from this will in Paradise is as good as casting oneself out. This does not violate the assertion that failure is impossible in the kingdom of God. The spiritual (both primordial spiritual and spiritual) cannot fail or cause disturbance in Paradise; the pressure there is too strong for them, it forces them towards swinging in the Will of God. But a Divine being in Paradise is already cosmic distances away from his point of origin and carries enough inner strength to cause disturbance. And hence has to learn how to operate there in a manner corresponding to the will of God.
Just as an animal, even on earth can never fail or deviate from the will of nature, and hence no guilt attaches in the animal. Their animistic soul is not strong enough to counter the pressure from nature, hence left alone; the animal will always swing in accord with nature. But man being from a higher plane, and consequently possessing a stronger inner strength can deviate from nature and cause disturbance. This is reflected in the case of Lucifer who being divine can cause disturbance where no creature can. However, no matter where the disturbance is caused, in the end the will of God will triumph, even in the world of matter. Any creature that stands in the will of God, irrespective of where he is in creation or subsequent creation, will easily dispel this disturbance. Otherwise the human spirit will not fully responsible for his failure. Lucifer can only incite not force or compel any creature that fails, fails out of his own volition.

The Volitions of God are the strongest, far stronger than all; the volitions of Divine substantiate beings, although far less strong than the volition of God, are still far stronger than the volitions of Primordial spiritual beings. Hence can accomplish what the volition of primordial spiritual being or human spirits cannot accomplish.
This post is getting too long, otherwise I will light throw light on the difference between that which is “wrong” and that which is “evil.” Understanding this fine distinction is the key to understanding the mystery of Lucifer.

Once again I urge every reader to read that lecture, “The Mystery of Lucifer” in the second volume of the book called, In the light of Truth: Grail Message. You can also read the chapter, “The Queen of Heaven,” in Herbert Vollmann’s book called[i] Knowledge for the World of Tomorrow.[/i] Also read the revealation of John, the part that this event was discribed, with an open eyes you will see where it took place. Although the writer spoke pictorialy, he passed down the event correctly.

Thanks and remain blessed.

Deep Sight:

What exactly is a demon. My perception (correct me if I am wrong) is that it is an animistic being that has taken on form and life from the volitions of spirit beings (including humans). If this is the case, and the demon came to exist from the volitions of humans, is it not possible that that volition could be so strong as to dominate the mind of the person from which it issued: and thus attract the consequent demon into permanent residence around the life of such a person. Could such a person not be said to be possessed by a demon. Additionally, if such a demon attracts thought forms of similar nature from a large amount of people, could such a demon not become a powerful entity exerting huge magnetic influence on spheres of people and their lives?

Demons are forms of spiritual volitions, wrong or evil volitions; hence they are called demons. What you said about demond influencing people is correct, they caould be very powerful, far more powerful than you can imagine. However what you discribed above is not possession, rather you can call it inspirtaion. A person can be inspired by a demon. However that which inspires one has to first originate from that person. Hence before such a demon can influence an individual, the individual must posses a homogenouse quality or must be homogenouse in his volition to demon. Here, his spirit fully participates, and not pushed aside.

Possession is different, in that it involves the spirit completely being dispossesed of his physical body. He may not even be homogeouse to the spirit that possessed him, only that he(his spirit) is too weak that it gets pushed aside by a stronger one momentriliy or for a long time. Hence possessed people often do things that they could never have done where they not possessed. Some of them, on recovering from the possession or on regaining thier body, feel so ashemed of what they did while they where possessed. This even drives some to suicide.

A demon cannot animate a physical body, it cannot wear a physical body, niether can it push a soul off the reins of the physcal body; it can only influence the soul, and the soul acts out the influences with the physical body

I can throw more light in this but I hope you got the picture. Besides, I have exhausted the time that I allot to nairaland everyday. If you still have issues about this, raise them and I will treat them later.

Once again, Please read The Mystery of Lucifer from the Grail massage, and consider my description about Lucifer in the light of that chatper of the Grail Message.

Thanks and remain blessed

M_nwankwo. Thanks for sharing your perception which is enriching, and which I respect very much; however my perception differs with yours in the issue of Lucifer on many points. I was going to let this issue slide by but I felt compelled to offer mine right next to yours so that each individual would have the opportunity of examining each view. My aim is not to prove you wrong or anything like that; my aim is just to give readers including you, the opportunity to examine my humble point of view.

Hi Justcool. Thanks for your contribution. It is indeed correct to voice your opposition to my views. The experiencing of the Will of God is personal and it is the sacred right of each spirit to voice what he intuitively senses as the Truth. The will of God will at some point in the process of the evolution of each spirit demonstrate in very clear terms whether the perception is right or wrong. I have examined the points you raised and do respect them. But they are opposed to what I sense and what I experience. My point is simple and that is, no wrong or evil volition can be found in the spiritual and primordial spiritual. The spiritual and the primordial spiritual are kingdoms of God (Gods backyard so to speak). Their is nothing more evil than a personal attack against God or his servants. This is exactly what Lucifer did. And to imagine that a radiation of God no matter how endowed can attack God in his own backyard is inconceivable and in my sensing impossible. As always, stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Justcool. Thanks for your contribution. It is indeed correct to voice your opposition to my views. The experiencing of the Will of God is personal and it is the sacred right of each spirit to voice what he intuitively senses as the Truth. The will of God will at some point in the process of the evolution of each spirit demonstrate in very clear terms whether the perception is right or wrong. I have examined the points you raised and do respect them. But they are opposed to what I sense and what I experience. My point is simple and that is, no wrong or evil volition can be found in the spiritual and primordial spiritual. The spiritual and the primordial spiritual are kingdoms of God (Gods backyard so to speak). Their is nothing more evil than a personal attack against God or his servants. This is exactly what Lucifer did. And to imagine that a radiation of God no matter how endowed can attack God in his own backyard is inconceivable and in my sensing impossible. As always, stay blessed.

Are you sure about the bold with reference to the red bold?

Are you saying that there is no wrong whatsoever in spiritual?

If that is the case, it would be very hard to see how wrong arose in the worlds of matter, considering that these worlds are a reflection of the spiritual?

Deep Sight:

Are you sure about the bold with reference to the red bold?

Are you saying that there is no wrong whatsoever in spiritual?

If that is the case, it would be very hard to see how wrong arose in the worlds of matter, considering that these worlds are a reflection of the spiritual?

Hi Deepsight. Thanks for your reasoned comments. Yes I am certain that wrong or evil volition cannot arise in luminous kingdoms of God (the spiritual and primordial spiritual). Perhaps, a definition of wrong and evil may make the concepts clearer. Wrong can be defined as an "unconscious" deviation from the laws of God. Evil can be defined as a willful and conscious deviation from the laws of God. Now the possibility of wrong or evil arising depends on the origin of the being or creature as well as how close or far such a being is to the "proximity" of God. The kingdoms of God, ie, the spiritual and the primordial spiritual are closer to the "proximity" of God than the material creations and thus subject to the enormous pressure of Gods power. This enormous pressure of Gods power does not permit the possibility of any conscious or unconscious deviation from the laws of God, thus no possibility of wrong or evil. It is because of this that failure is impossible in the spiritual or primordial spiritual kingdoms of God. Where their is no possibility for failure, there is also no possibility for wrong or evil. Development is not the same thing as wrong. There is development in all spheres of creation but development is simply a step by step progress in the continuum of the laws of God. Development in higher realms do not deviate even by a hairs breath from the laws of God. There is no standstill in creation and thus development continues ad infinitum. If you have a an infinite flight of steps in continuum, progress from step 1, 2, 1000, 10000, etc is development and should not be considered as wrong or evil. If the wanderer accidentally steps out of these eternal flight of steps, then that is wrong, but if he consciously and willfully steps out of the steps, then that is evil in this context.

Yes the world of matter can in a sense be taken as the coarsest reflection of the spiritual. But a reflection is not a copy. The world of matter is not subject to the enormous pressure of Gods power because it oscillates as cosmic distances far from the "proximity" of God. Wrong and evil are only possible in the world of matter because of the slackened pressure of the power of God. This slacking allows the possibility of wrong union of radiations which may progress to evil. Creatures who have the capacity of free will can then exploit this slackened pressure of Gods power to bring about wrong union of radiations which may progress to evil. Evil was not created by God for the world of matter as God made it has not one iota of evil or wrong deeds. However creatures that have free will can form wrong unions because of the slackened pressure of Gods power. Eliminating evil in material creations simply involves an act of Gods will which brings material creations into an increased pressure of Gods power, a pressure which does not just eliminate evil volition but eliminates the possibility of the source of evil volition, ie, wrong union of radiations. The battle between Light and Darkness is only in the world of matter for reasons that I have stated above. Wen a spirit is permitted some experiences of the spiritual realm even while wandering in lower spheres, the enormous pressure of Gods power will convince him that no other thought or volition can arise. There are no human concepts to describe this. All that one can say is that in that moment, the spirit flows with this enormous pressure and although his free will is still there, it is like the only will he has is to flow with the flow of Gods power.

Thanks again. Is his condition reversible in the event that he changes his volition?

I do not know. This question have only crossed my spirit once and when I put the question to my spiritual guide, I received a rebuke. Stay blessed.

Once again, I will offer my perception.

Once again, I will offer my perception. The words that no evil or deviation from the Will of God can exist in paradise and above have been taken out of context by many seekers and even cross bearers. When it concerns the Truth, the individual must let go of words and work with his intuitive perception. One who holds on to earthly words when it comes to spiritual things will never understand it.

In reality there are no laws, everything we are forced to call laws due to the limitation of our language are nothing but intrinsic abilities that rests in all species of creation. One must seek to understand the process and not hold on to words otherwise she/he makes the Truth a religion.

In view of the expression, “proximity of God” this expression is just to give the brain a faint idea, because there is nothing in the proximity of God! Consider with your intuition, “proximity” implies a place. And for something to be in a place, that thing must have a form or substance. Since God has no form, no substance, God is in “no place”! God is not anywhere at such! That which is in no place cannot be in proximity to something! A thing cannot be in proximity to something that has no form, no substance, and exists nowhere. When we say “In proximity to God” we mean something else. In proximity to God mean subjected to the highest degree of the pressure that results from God.

Saying that no “wrong” can exist in the vicinity of God is as correct as saying that “with God all things are possible.” This statement is correct as long as one grasps it with his intuition. But religionists holding on this statement and try to imply that God can do anything. This explanation is wrong! For God cannot lie, murder, or still! The statement that God can do anything only implies that possibilities within the laws of God are limitless! However, God can never act outside His laws! Such would be impossible. By the same token, saying that no wrong can exist in the kingdom of God only implies that that which is wrong cannot gain firm hold or permanent stay there, but will easily be eliminated or force out by the stronger pressure of the Will of God.


I will give an example why one shouldn’t just hold on to words but seek to understand the process. The Grail message said that in the first part of the Primordial spiritual planes, there are no children; only in the second part children found. The beings come into being fully developed. However this regards to creatures and beings in creation, when species above creation come into question a different scenario arises. The son of man started as an infant in the first part of the Primordial spiritual planes. Does this contradict that no children are found up there? No! Because here we are dealing with a specie above creation.

The Divine sphere is subjected to the greatest degree of this pressure. In the Divine sphere the spiritual (both Primordial and human spiritual) could not take on form. But in creation, that is at a reduced pressure, they can. Here we see an increase of or endowment of ability due to distancing from the “proximity of God.” The ability (to take on form) they could not have in the Divine, they could have in creation. The same principle is applicable to Lucifer, who could not possess free-will in the Divine, but could do so at cosmic distances from the “proximity of God.” And where there is free-will there is ability to choose. And where there is ability to choose, there is also the possibility or ability of choosing wrongly! Otherwise there will be no free-will!


The spiritual, due to the enormous pressure, in the kingdom of God are greatly inclined to swing in the rhythm of this pressure. Because the spiritual is not strong enough to counter the pressure there, just as the spiritual is not strong enough to take on form in the Divine. The fact that the spiritual could not take on form in the Divine, but can do so in the primordial spiritual, already implies a stepping down or reduction of pressure. A being like Lucifer, who was not even created, a being who being Divine was strong enough to take on for in the Divine, without needing to be created; such a being bears enough pressure within him to counter the pressure in the Primordial spiritual far more than any primordial spiritual being can. Hence Lucifer can cause more disturbances there, disturbance that the spiritual (both Primordial and human spiritual) cannot. This also endows him with the ability to impact creation in a more positive way than any spiritual or created being can. This is only logical if one understands the abilities or the mechanism and not hold on to words.

Also saying that spiritual or primordial spiritual cannot consciously deviate in the will of God in Paradise is an overstatement, because such a scenario implies lack of free will! The spiritual possess free-will where ever it, whether in Primordial spiritual or in spiritual. Maturity comes when the spiritual free-will has been fine-tuned enough to unite with the will of God; hence when the spirit works, it fulfills its own will which has united with the will of God. The spirit is never forced by a higher will; such will be a violation which God will never do. Hence in Paradise and above the spirits are very conscious, even of their will and the will of God; and always possess the choice to deviate. However deviation means automatic expulsion! Consider, dear Deep sight, that a spirit who cannot consciously deviate from the will of God is as good as not possessing free-will. Only on earth do men try to suppress their free-will, in the delusion that they are obeying God. But this is not the path to accent, which lies in the spiritual will uniting with the will of God. Please read the lecture, “Submission” from volume I of the Grail Message.

It is actually this ability of a different “will” (a will not homogenous to their environment) arising in the spirit germs that allowed them to be expelled from Paradise. I can elaborate on this if you want me to.

Lucifer remains outside material creation. His volition took on forms in all the planes of creation. Like I told you some time ago, the incarnation of a divine being or even a Primordial spiritual being does not mean that the whole being leaves his plane of origin, only his volition leaves. While Jesus was on earth, He was still in God, He was still in the Divine substantial plane, and He was still in the Primordial spiritual. While working in matter Lucifer’s (or his volition) devised a means to do his task faster; but this means or principle is lacking in the love of God.

Naturally if his lowest volition, the one creation becomes disharmonious with the root, which is Lucifer himself in the Divine; there will be a break in the string of volition. Hence his volition in creation will be cut off from him. This is provided that Lucifer himself in the Divine is strongly swinging in the will of God. But this is not what happened. His volition in creation which deviated from the will of God was harmonious with the rest of his volitions in the various planes of creation, this chain of volitions was taut and hence sent disturbance in all the planes where there are anchored. The resultant is that Lucifer himself in the Divine becomes uprooted and expelled.

An analogy might suffice. Imagine a tree rooted in the soul, if the pressure, (wind, man, or etc.) forces one of the branches to enormous vibration; only two things can happen: (1) the branch wrongly vibrating breaks off. (2) The whole tree gets up rooted.
Scenario 2 only happens when the branch is taut or strongly united with the trunk of the tree. And as the branch vibrates, the entire tree including other branch vibrates, sending disturbance to their own ends. That’s exactly what happened with Lucifer, who before he was cast out was still connected to the Divine realm. Lucifer would not let go of this loveless principle, which caused him to swing inharmoniously with the rest of his environment (the Divine sphere), and hence had to be uprooted from the Devine sphere. This process is quite simple to grasp if you work with your intuition.

And when it is said that Lucifer attacked Elizabeth, one must not think that it is like an earthly attack, throwing punches or etc. Elizabeth, coming from the Divine and swinging powerfully in the will of God will encounter the most resistance from that which does not swing in this will! Therein lays the attack which Elizabeth was able to dispel. Imagine two boats in a lake, swinging at different frequencies. Both will generate waves which will clash. The strong wave will force them apart! Hence everything that swings in the Will of God produced a vibration quite different from that which Lucifer produced, and hence the clash.

I will close with another example. In the Primordial spiritual is filled with happiness. The beings there swing eternally in the highest happiness because of “the vicinity of God.” Grief, sorrow and sadness cannot be found in the planes of light or in Primordial creation. This statement is correct as long as one does not hold on to it rigidly and make a religion of it. Read the lecture, “The Stanger” you will see that grief penetrated even the Grail castle at the crucifixion of Jesus! This grief is wrong, because grief is never willed by God, but in this case it’s not evil. Hence it can find its way to “God’s vicinity.” It is the disturbance caused due to mankind’s evil deed of killing the son of God. The point is that creation, from Primordial to gross matter” is one system; disturbance in one part is retroactively felt in all the parts. To quote the Grail message about the grief finding its way in the Grail castle;

“At the summit of the entire Creation, in the radiant vicinity of God, stands the Grail Castle as the Temple of Light. Deep grief prevailed there over the erring human spirits far below whom, blindly imagining that they knew everything better, closed themselves in hostility to the Truth, and allowed themselves to be driven so far by the hate-filled Darkness as to commit this crime against the Son of God. The curse thus created by mankind fell heavily on the whole world, pressing them into an even greater limitation of understanding. –
Gravely perplexed, a youth beheld this monstrous happening from the Castle of the Grail … the future Son of Man. He was then already being prepared for His Mission, a process which took thousands of years; for He was to descend well-equipped into those lower regions where, through the volition of mankind, Darkness reigned.”
(From the lecture, “The Stranger” from the Grail Message by Abd-ru-shin)

One can equally say that by killing Jesus mankind attacked the son of man in the Grail castle! Since the currents from this sinful killing was felt by all that swung in the will of God, most especially the son of man who was Justice!

I can give many examples. Think about Jesus the son of God who still carries wound marks, even on His Divine substantial cloak! Could anything be closer to God? Think about the lamb at the steps of Gods thrown who carry a wound on its body. Is this wound wrong or right? Is this lamb not closer in vicinity to God than the entire creation?

Thanks and remain blessed.

Just Cool and M Nwankwo,
have you read "A Wanderer In The Spirit Lands" and if you have, whats your take on it ?

My view is that the Truth is always simple and clear. Whether or not creatures can perceive it depends entirely on each creature. Perhaps for the benefit of seekers who want to consider the issues at stake independently and not through the lens of m_nwankwo, the following passages from the Grail Message may be of help.

"Guilt and atonement are only possible in the World! This is due to the faultiness of the subsequent development. Guilt of any kind is utterly impossible in the Realm of the Spirit!" (From Grail Message, Vol. II Lecture 68)


"Lucifer himself stands outside material Creation and will therefore not be drawn into the disintegration which is the fate of the victims of his principle, because Lucifer is eternal. His origin lies in a part of the Sphere of Divine Substantiality. The dissension started after the creation of all matter had begun. Sent out to support Spiritual Substantiality and further its development in the World of Matter, he failed to carry out his mission in accordance with the Creative Will of God the Father but, through a volition which came to him while working in matter, he chose ways other than those ordained by this Creative Will." (From Grail Message Vol. II Lecture 35)

[b]"As in wandering downwards Parsifal arrived at the boundary where the World of Matter began, i.e., the area of the human spirits developing from spirit-germs, he reached that plane in which the effects of the dark currents that had also already touched Amfortas first became manifest.

At this boundary there is the Castle in which Amfortas was priest-king. It is the lowest image of the actual Grail Castle, furthest away from it and most different from it in nature. Also therefore the nearest one to the earth, although in terms of human thinking at such a great distance as can hardly be grasped! In this Castle there are indeed the purest of the developed human spirits as guardians of the vessel and as knights.

Upon entering this plane it was necessary for Parsifal to become veiled with a cloak of the same kind, even though of the very fine material substance such as existed there, which was like a bandage that temporarily blots out all memories of higher regions.

Coming from the Light He now in pure innocence faced the evil that was completely unknown to Him, and He could only take notice of it through suffering under it. He thereby had to learn laboriously what human spirits are capable of in this respect.

Thus He did indeed obtain a thorough knowledge of it, but since it was completely alien to His nature He could never understand such things.

Thus it was here that the currents from the Darkness, which had naturally taken on form, rushed for the first time upon the wandering stranger, who in the struggles connected therewith gained strength and awoke to the recognition of Himself./p>

It is of this path, difficult and full of suffering, that mankind on earth received knowledge, because it took place in the World of Matter, although only at its highest boundary." (From Grail Message Vol. III, Lecture 58)
[/b]

Stay blessed.

jayriginal: Just Cool and M Nwankwo,
have you read "A Wanderer In The Spirit Lands" and if you have, whats your take on it ?

@jayriginal
No, I have not read “A Wanderer In The Spirit Lands” hence I’m not qualified to pass judgment on it. The bases of my conversation in this thread and in this entire forum is “In the Light of Truth; The Grail Message” by Abd-ru-shin. I invite you to read this book and judge my writings in the light of it.
Thanks

m_nwankwo:
"Guilt and atonement are only possible in the World! This is due to the faultiness of the subsequent development. Guilt of any kind is utterly impossible in the Realm of the Spirit!" (From Grail Message, Vol. II Lecture 68)

The above which is from the Grail message is very correct and fits in perfectly with what I have explained in this thread. Guilt of any kind is impossible in the kingdom of God, because guilt arises from evil. Guilt is the consequence or the reciprocal effect of evil volition or action. I have made it clear that evil cannot ascend the kingdom of God.

But “wrong” in the sense of the explanation in the lecture, “The mystery of Lucifer” of the Grail Message, is not necessarily “evil”.

The seeker must be able and willing to distinguish between that which is “wrong” and that which is “evil”; in the light of the Truth revealed in the lecture, “The mystery of Lucifer” of the Grail Message, both concepts(Wrong and evil) are not the same. One who seeks to go beyond words will easily, in his intuitive perception, arrive at the difference. The Grail message makes this clear, in that chapter, “The mystery of Lucifer," Abd-ru-shin writes:

“Those who speak of a fallen archangel, as also those who speak of the embodiment of the evil principle, come closest to the truth. But here also a false attitude prevails, giving a false picture of everything. An embodiment of the evil principle makes one think of the summit, of the final goal, of all evil having been invested with life and body, thus the crowning, the complete culmination!
On the contrary, however, Lucifer is the origin, the starting point and the driving power of the wrong principle! One should really not call the principle he brings forth the evil principle, but the wrong principle! The field of action of this wrong principle is the World of Matter.”

Hence one cannot simply say, without the right intuitive perception, that no “wrong” can exist in the Kingdom of God. “Wrong” in this context means “inadequate,” “immature,” in contrast to “evil” which means intentionally and knowingly harming others to satisfy ones selfish needs. Lucifer only tempts! He actually despises the meanness and evil attitude that the creatures who fail in his temptation display. His principle of temptation eliminates the weak but strengthens the strong who get stronger after overcoming each temptation. This is the principle that the police uses today to catch criminals; sometimes the police disguise themselves as drug dealers and prostitutes and stand on road sides to lure drug addicts and pimps. This principle of temptation is wrong not evil; although very effective and far easier than the principle of waiting hand and foot, it is lacking in Love.

This principle works well in the worlds of matter due to the failure of mankind; but this principle or disturbing influence of Lucifer cannot take hold in the spiritual and above, due to the alertness of the creatures there, creatures that stand in the Will of God. And hence his principle is repelled immediately by them and sinks into subsequent creation.

Those in the spiritual planes and above, who Lucifer sent this wrong volition to (just as he sent it to Elizabeth), will perceive it, only that they will not act on it or obey it; knowing full well that it does not accord with the will of God, they dismissed it or repelled it. There in lay the temptation or the disturbing influence of Lucifer, which the spiritual having the gift of free-will can chose to accept or reject. The spirits possess this free-will irrespective of where they are in creation, even in the spiritual realm and primordial, for free-will is an integral part of the spirit. The spirits in Paradise and above, by choosing correctly or exercising their free-will in the right manner and thereby rejecting Lucifer's offer, they fulfilled the will of God, and hence no guilt attached to them. And hence this wrong principle could not work there. The spirits in Paradise have united their will with the will of God, hence no guilt attaches to them, and hence no guilt can exist there. Only in the worlds of matter did mankind succumb to this temptation.

Even in the world of matter, in the end this wrong principle of Lucifer will be eradicated, because the will of God reigns in the entire creation. Only that in the world of matter, that which takes a split second in the spiritual, may take centuries to manifest. Hence even in the world of matter, all guilt will, in the end be atoned and eradicated. That which is wrong and that which is evil only exist in the interim in the world of matter; in the end purity will reign. Exactly as it is in the spiritual, because “as above, so below”; the world of matter is only a reflection of the spiritual. However due to its density which causes obstruction, this interim of the "wrong" can exist in the worlds of matter. In the spiritual, this is impossible because there is no delay, no waiting, no hesitation and etc in the Spiritual realms. That which is wrong or evil is immediately repulsed and eliminated due to the pressure.


Just as a food for thought, and to further distinguish between “wrong” and “evil.” Think of animals! Is the animistic realm, where the animal soul returns after earthly death, not part of the kingdom of God? A wolf can kill a thousand men on earth but no guilt attaches to it; and it returns to the kingdom of God after death. This killing is wrong (it was not how God designed it to be) but the animal doing such killing is not evil; because in view of it origin, it does not know any better. An animal can never become evil but man can, yet both can do wrong. The same is applicable to a human child, the child is basically innocent (not evil) but can do so many “wrongs” which only springs from its immaturity.

m_nwankwo:
"Lucifer himself stands outside material Creation and will therefore not be drawn into the disintegration which is the fate of the victims of his principle, because Lucifer is eternal. His origin lies in a part of the Sphere of Divine Substantiality. The dissension started after the creation of all matter had begun. Sent out to support Spiritual Substantiality and further its development in the World of Matter, he failed to carry out his mission in accordance with the Creative Will of God the Father but, through a volition which came to him while working in matter, he chose ways other than those ordained by this Creative Will." (From Grail Message Vol. II Lecture 35)

The above confirms what I have said earlier, albeit in different words, that the path of Lucifer is different from the path of the human spirit. Lucifer did not originate in creation, and he is eternal. A keen observer already sees in that fact that Lucifer is eternal, abilities beyond the capability of the human spirit. If Lucifer can remain eternal after straying from the will of God, while the human spiritual personality cannot, Lucifer is endowed with greater strength than the spiritual and hence can cause disturbance where the human spirit cannot.

Once again people should not use slogans which only refer to the spiritual to judge a being that is above the spiritual. Just as it is quite rightly said that “the soul that sins shall dies,” “the wages of sin is death” these saying are very correct when they refer to the spiritual which when stray from the will of God is headed to destruction. But it will be very misguided to place Lucifer under such sayings. He carries abilities that no spirit can carry, due to his origin.

This is simpler than any other explanation.

While we are on this issue of Lucifer, I will go deeper to mention that apart from the enormous ability and strength which his origin endowed him, Lucifer was also given the Holy Spear. This is the Divine Power given to him. This spear (or the Divine power given to him) is so powerful that the son of man had to wrest it from Lucifer, before any healing can begin in the worlds of matter! To this end, Abd-ru-shin writes in the chapter, “The Mystery of Lucifer,” from the Grail Message:

“This task has been delegated to the prophesied Son of Man!
The combat will be a personal one, face to face, not only a general symbolical one, as many investigators want to interpret from the prophecies. It is the fulfilment of the promise given in Parsifal. Lucifer has wrongly used the "Holy Spear", the Power, and through his principle inflicted a painful wound with it upon humanity and thus upon the Sphere of Spiritual Substantiality. The Spear will be wrested from him in this combat. Then, in the "proper hands", that is, by applying the true Grail principle of pure, severe love, it will heal the wound previously inflicted by it while in the wrong hand, that is, through its wrong use.”

Here we are not talking about spiritual power. We are talking about Divine Power which is above all spiritual and the spiritual pressure in the Primordial spiritual planes!

One can also ask himself, “Why was Lucifer sent to do this task? Why wasn’t a Primordial spiritual being sent?” The answer is simple: Imbued with greater power than any creature can carry, Lucifer can impact creation (all planes of creation) more than any creature can.

m_nwankwo:
[b]"As in wandering downwards Parsifal arrived at the boundary where the World of Matter began, i.e., the area of the human spirits developing from spirit-germs, he reached that plane in which the effects of the dark currents that had also already touched Amfortas first became manifest.

At this boundary there is the Castle in which Amfortas was priest-king. It is the lowest image of the actual Grail Castle, furthest away from it and most different from it in nature. Also therefore the nearest one to the earth, although in terms of human thinking at such a great distance as can hardly be grasped! In this Castle there are indeed the purest of the developed human spirits as guardians of the vessel and as knights.

Upon entering this plane it was necessary for Parsifal to become veiled with a cloak of the same kind, even though of the very fine material substance such as existed there, which was like a bandage that temporarily blots out all memories of higher regions.

Coming from the Light He now in pure innocence faced the evil that was completely unknown to Him, and He could only take notice of it through suffering under it. He thereby had to learn laboriously what human spirits are capable of in this respect.

Thus He did indeed obtain a thorough knowledge of it, but since it was completely alien to His nature He could never understand such things.

Thus it was here that the currents from the Darkness, which had naturally taken on form, rushed for the first time upon the wandering stranger, who in the struggles connected therewith gained strength and awoke to the recognition of Himself./p>

It is of this path, difficult and full of suffering, that mankind on earth received knowledge, because it took place in the World of Matter, although only at its highest boundary." (From Grail Message Vol. III, Lecture 58)
[/b]

The above only confirms what I wrote earlier! In the above we see that Parsifal encountered the currents of darkness (Volitions of Lucifer) for the first time at the highest boundary of the ethereal sphere. This encounter happened when Parsifal has grown into adulthood, when He has entered His mission. Hence Lucifer’s struggle against Elizabeth must have happened thousands of years earlier, since Parsifal was still an infant then. And also, immediately after the struggle against Elizabeth Lucifer was forcibly driving out of the kingdom of God not the highest part of the ethereal ream. The above verse from the Grail message clearly shows this fact. If Lucifer was driven out of the highest part of the ethereal realm when he attacked Elizabeth, thousands of years earlier, how come his volitions(influence or currents) ware still there, to attack Parsifal, thousands of years later when Parsifal incarnated there?

Thanks and remain blessed

justcool:
@jayriginal
No, I have not read “A Wanderer In The Spirit Lands” hence I’m not qualified to pass judgment on it. The bases of my conversation in this thread and in this entire forum is “In the Light of Truth; The Grail Message” by Abd-ru-shin. I invite you to read this book and judge my writings in the light of it.
Thanks

Oh I read all three books years ago including "A Wanderer In The Spirit Lands". Just wondering.
Thanks.

Hi again. I can explain the peripheral issues that my friend Justcool keep emphasizing but I inwardly do not feel the urge to do so. Maybe, someday I will do that. For the spiritual benefit of all that are reading this thread, I humbly request Justcool to provide specific evidence or citation from the Grail Message for the following assertions that he has made:

(a) Lucifer wrong volition or principle happened in the primordial spiritual plane

(b) That Lucifer's struggle/attack on Elizabeth/infant Parsifal happened in the primordial spiritual plane

(c) That the Lucifer's principle of "letting oneself go" and temptation happened when Lucifer's volition was immature in the Primordial spiritual

Stay blessed.

jayriginal: Just Cool and M Nwankwo,
have you read "A Wanderer In The Spirit Lands" and if you have, whats your take on it ?

Hi jayriginal. I read the book some years ago. My take is that it is an accurate description of the experiences in the beyond (astral and ethereal planes) for that particular soul. Thus the book in my sensing is an accurate transmitted writing. But remember that it is just for that particular soul. Other souls with different propensities and traits will have different experience. There are several lectures in the Grail Message on the experiences of the soul in the beyond and the the laws that determine what experience each departed soul will be subjected to. If you intuitively examine those lectures, you will understand the book better since the Grail Message will explain the principle behind the experiences described in that book. But one does not need to die before one can consciously experience these planes of existence. If you need it for your spiritual development, then your astral and ethereal faculties of perception can open while still in a physical body and you can survey these planes yourself. Stay blessed.

Thanks M_Nwankwo

I think I understand what you mean when you say "that particular soul", but just for the avoidance of doubt what I meant was your general take of the book.

The idea of higher and lower planes, the beings that inhabit them which which ascend or descend into planes depending on their conduct whilst in a particular plane, the mirror image of cities that existed during ones earthly years, the notion that ones thoughts draw like minded "spirits".

Do you hold these things to be true ?


EDIT:
I just read your response again and it clarifies some of what I just asked.

Thanks for your time.

@m_nwankwo,
You can always address me directly; I’m not upset with you, not even the smallest iota of hatred exists in my heart for you. I appreciate you examining my words and pointing out where you disagree rather than accepting them as gospel truth or keeping quiet for the sake cordiality.
I have nothing but love in my heart for you. I will gladly answer your questions; feel free to reject them. I’m sure one day, perhaps in the non-physical planes, we will laugh over this issue. I don’t just believe in my perception over this issue, I am convinced. This is an issue I have struggled with for years, till out of the love of God realization came to me. I cannot share my personal experiences on this forum, but I can say that the visit of Parsifal in the Grail castle in ethereal plane, where Amfortas failed, was very familiar with me. I have a personal relationship to this particular event. You can easily find out if I’m lying, I’m sure you will find out if I'm lying if you investigate this claim of mine.

m_nwankwo: For the spiritual benefit of all that are reading this thread, I humbly request Justcool to provide specific evidence or citation from the Grail Message for the following assertions that he has made:

Like I said above, I will very gladly do so. And thanks for requesting this.

m_nwankwo:
(a) Lucifer wrong volition or principle happened in the primordial spiritual plane

I have always maintained that this wrong volition came to Lucifer while working with matter or in while his volition was working in the world of matter. Kindly read my analogy about a tree with one branch vibrating wrongly. I repeat: Lucifer remained outside creation. His volition took on form in all the planes of creation. This is the way Divine beings work in creation. I gave example with Jesus who while on earth was also in the Primordial spiritual, in the Divine, and also in God. The same is applicable with the son of man who while on earth was in the Primordial spiritual sphere, the Divine sphere and God. These conformations at different planes of creation, I analogized as branches in a tree. The vibration on one branch will either cause the branch to break off or, if the connection with the trunk is taut, cause the entire tree to vibrate and send this vibrations or disturbance to all the branches. The consequence would be that this tree will meet the greatest resistance on the ground or the earth where the tree is rooted, causing it to be uprooted.
This is an analogy of what happened with Lucifer, and how he was expelled from his source or uprooted from the Divine plane.

If Jesus while on earth had introduced a wrong principle only two things would have happened;
(1) The Jesus on earth losses connection with the Jesus above and in God, (the branch on earth breaks off because it cannot force the entire tree to the same vibration).
(2) If the radiation connection with all the conformations is taut, Jesus in God will be expelled. (The tree is uprooted because the entire tree vibrates but naturally could not force the earth to the same vibration, hence the tree is uprooted.)

The second case is what happened with Lucifer, because he did not put the will of God above this volition that came to him while working with matter. The entire branches vibrated in unison, sending disturbances in where they are anchored and consequently uprooting Lucifer in the Divine because he could not cause the Divine plane to vibrate in unison with this wrong volition of his.

I never said that this wrong volition happened or came to him in the primordial spiritual sphere, therefore I need not provide passage from the Grail message to support a claim that I never made. What I said is that Lucifer attacked all the planes of creation, since this wrong vibration which came from his volition in matter allowed his volitions in other planes(Including the primordial spiritual) to cause disturbances in their respective planes of anchorage.

His casting out or expulsion from his source (the root) is mentioned in the Grail message, and I quote:

" The application of his loveless principle, however, quite naturally separated Lucifer more and more from the Loving Will of the Almighty Creator, causing him to be cut off and cast out from the Light. Consequently he fell ever deeper. Lucifer is one who has severed himself from the Light, which is equivalent to having been cast out.
This expulsion was also bound to occur according to the existing Primordial Laws, the irrevocable Holy Will of God the Father! It could not possibly happen otherwise!” Abd-ru-shin.

This verse above from the Grail message also alludes to what I said earlier: that adopting a will not in accord with the will of God is automatic expulsion.

I can also further give hints from the Grail message that the disturbance of Lucifer affected all planes of creation. From the chapter, The Primordial Spiritual Planes II, of the Grail Message. I quote:

"Parsifal’s great work of purification which leads Him personally through the worlds, with the unreserved condition that He must through His own experiencing learn to know all the evil, which work was bound to end with the fettering of Lucifer for the protection of all the creations and all the creatures that remain after the purification." Abd-ru-shin.

Please observe in the above, “the protection of all creations.” He did not say all material creations, but all creations. Is this not enough indication that Lucifer’s influence or disturbance could be felt in all creations?

Also ask yourself why the son of man had to incarnate into the Primordial spiritual plane, to remain there eternally! We humans often think that this incarnation is only for the purpose of saving the earth. Saving subsequent creation is only a part of his mission and not the whole mission which involves strengthening God’s will in the spiritual planes!

m_nwankwo:
(b) That Lucifer's struggle/attack on Elizabeth/infant Parsifal happened in the primordial spiritual plane

The Grail message did not describe this attack. But one whose eyes are open will clearly see where it happened. There are statements in the Grail message which contradicts the assumption that this attack happened in worlds of matter to which the topmost part of the ethereal plane belong. I have pointed them out earlier. And I’m glad to point them out again:
(1) The Grail message describes incarnations into the ethereal realm as not necessitating the Primordial queen Elizabeth. Such incarnations takes place by descending into a flower, and guided by two female beings who swing in Love and Justice. Elizabeth is not needed to bring down Parsifal into the Ethereal realm, only in the Primordial spiritual plane is Elizabeth needed for the incarnation of Parsifal into the Primordial spiritual planes; so the attack on Elizabeth as she passed down (“delivered a child” in the words of Revelation) the son of man could only have been in the Primordial spiritual planes.
(2) The Grail message maintains that Elizabeth have always dwelt in the Highest heights and has never been incarnated into an earthly body. Hence one can deduce that Elizabeth works in the Highest Heights and not in the ethereal or gross material spheres. I perceive that the writer of the Grail message would not refer to any part of the worlds of matter as the Highest Heights. Hence the place where Elizabeth was “attacked” could never have been any part of the ethereal sphere.

m_nwankwo:
(c) That the Lucifer's principle of "letting oneself go" and temptation happened when Lucifer's volition was immature in the Primordial spiritual

This is another conclusion that you could not have drawn from my writings. I never said what you wrote above. To give a clue as per the difference between “wrong” and “evil”, I likened the “wrong” as the volition of a child; hence “immature” or “inadequate.”
Everything you said above is contrary what I have maintained in this thread. First Lucifer’s wrong principle is the principle of temptation not “letting go” which is a consequence of the principle of temptation. On earth or material creation, men react to the principle of temptation by “letting go” of themselves hence they become evil and consequently burden themselves with guilt.

But in the spiritual spheres this wrong principle is dispelled and not yielded to due to the alertness of the spirits that dwell up there. I think I have said this already in this thread. The spiritual planes and Primordial spiritual planes are not protected from the temptation of Lucifer because God made it impossible to Lucifer to send his wrong disturbance to them. If you ponder on this you must realize that it involves partiality which is injustice. Why leave beings in subsequent creation prone to Lucifer’s temptation and save beings in primordial creation from this temptation? Is this not injustice or favoritism? Even if it is achieved by the “proximity” to God. It remains injustice!

On the contrary, the Truth is that the spiritual spheres and Primordial spiritual spheres render the temptation of Lucifer powerless in their environment by choosing to dispel it. Hence it is due to their personal effort and not a special gift given to the due to the nearness of God.

Like I said earlier, mankind is inclined to think that they will ascend to a Paradise where the ‘proximity” of God will absolve them of their ability to choose. Where they will effortlessly act and all their actions will accord with the will of God. Or where the pressure of this will of God will force them to do only this will. In order words where they will lose their free will. On the contrary those in paradise exercise their free-will every minute and strive with all their strength to stand in the will of God. Every blessing they enjoy there is out of merit of personal effort and personal exertion.

As above so below; the entire creation is ruled by the same laws. Mankind can make this subsequent creation like primordial creation if they will aright. Even on earth or subsequent creation, mankind can chose to make Lucifer powerless. Quoting from the Grail Message:

“Lucifer would indeed be quite powerless if mankind would make the effort to recognize and follow the Primordial Laws given by the Creator. Unfortunately, however, men increasingly support the wrong principle through their present behaviour,, and the greater part of them will therefore have to perish!” Abd-ru-shin.

Returning to your question. Naturally all volitions grow and mature over time. All volitions whether in Paradise or on earth start as an infant (immature). This doesn’t apply to Lucifer alone. Lucifer’s was not the first to make a mistake while working in an alien soil; but most servants of God sent on such missions learn from their mistakes and matures, finally uniting completely with the will of God. Lucifer refused to do this. He refused to let go of his wrong principle. At the point when he taught that his volition was not wrong, at that point this volition could be likened immature or childish. But overtime, he became fully aware that tis volition does not accord with the will of God, but he held on to it. He refused to swing in the Will of God. To this end the Grail message writes:

“Lucifer refuses to wait with kindness for man gradually to mature and become strong. He refuses to be the loving gardener that he should be, caring for, supporting and tending the plants entrusted to him. With him "the wolf" literally "came to mind the sheep"! His goal is the destruction of all that is weak, and he works relentlessly towards that end.” Abd-ru-shin

I repeat: The wrong volition came to him while working in matter and not in the Primordial spiritual plane. This wrong volition of his caused the rest of his volitions in other plains of creation to become a disturbance. A disturbance which the spirits in primordial creation dispelled but mankind in subsequent creation yielded to by “letting go.” A disturbance that Elizabeth felt and dispelled while she faithfully performed her task in the Highest Heights. And due to this disturbance which contributed in the failure of mankind, Lucifer inflicted a wound on the spiritual sphere because mankind who left Paradise as spiritual seeds never return, this weakened the spiritual sphere greatly. And this weakness reflected on the body of the Lamb in the Divine sphere, on the steps of throne of God.

Thanks and remain blessed.

Right after writing my last post in this thread, I received a prompting from the beyond to certain pages of the Grail message.
In regards to where Elizabeth was attacked or resisted Lucifer’s volition, please read the chapter called “The Primordial Queen” from Volume III of “In the Light of Truth: The Grail Message.” A thorough experiencing of this great chapter will awaken you to the conviction of where this event happened.
Explaining the visions of Elizabeth and the infant Parsifal, Abd-ru-shin writes:

“ Genuine visions, however always showed pictures of Elizabeth with the infant Parsifal or also without the latter. These were only live pictures shown by guides, but never Elizabeth Herself, Who cannot be seen by men.” Abd-ru-shin

Elizabeth has never approached man personally and has never incarnated into a material vessel; from the above passage of the Grail message we can only deduce that man only sees a live picture of Elizabeth and the infant Parsifal when this picture is transmitted via man’s guide. But man can never see Elizabeth due to difference in specie. If the picture of Elizabeth and infant Parsifal are from the ethereal plane, then mankind in the ethereal plane would have seen them; and hence the Grail message would not have said that “these are only live pictures shown by guides,…” This is all too simple to deduce, the Grail message would have said that some of the pictures of Elizabeth and Parsifal are from them being in the ethereal plane. But the message maintains that mankind has never seen Elizabeth personally but was only show “live pictures” of her!
Even Is-ma-el(John) in Patmos who received Revelations could not see Elizabeth personality and clearly; what he saw was her shadow or radiated picture. Even this picture or shadow was too bright for him to see; hence he described her as a woman clothed with the sun. That means her cloak shined like the sun. How can a Primordial spiritual being describe an ethereal cloak as being as bright as the sun? I have already pointed out that he could not have described a place far below him as heavens! Subsequent creation, even the uppermost part of ethereal must appear dark to Ismael who dwell far above matter and far “closer” to God who is the Living light! He could not have called ethereal cloak as bright as the sun!

Also about the spirits in Paradise not being able to consciously deviate from the will of God, let us consider the following passage from the same chapter of the Grail message:

“ Wherever ego-consciousness can arise these wings fall away. From the very outset they are not at all developed with spirits, because the spiritual must develop personal volition and does not swing unconditionally in the Will of God.” Abd-ru-shin.

Emphasis is laid on the “personal” in the above passage from the Grail message. The spirit never gives up its will or forced to follow another will; such is unnatural with spirits. The spirits follows its will; but the spirits in Paradise have united their will with the Will of God. Hence when they work they actually serve their own will which is always in accord with the will of God. Spirits always possess free-will where ever they may be. And to suppress ones will is wrong for any spirit. Maturity of a spirit comes from the spiritual will being in accord with the will of God. Spirits never swing unconditionally in the will of God, such is only possible with the substantiate beings to which animals belong. Hence an animal can never stray from the will of nature. The spiritual always possess the ability to choose.

Thanks and remain blessed.

@m_nwankwo,
You can always address me directly; I’m not upset with you, not even the smallest iota of hatred exists in my heart for you. I appreciate you examining my words and pointing out where you disagree rather than accepting them as gospel truth or keeping quiet for the sake cordiality.
I have nothing but love in my heart for you. I will gladly answer your questions; feel free to reject them. I’m sure one day, perhaps in the non-physical planes, we will laugh over this issue. I don’t just believe in my perception over this issue, I am convinced. This is an issue I have struggled with for years, till out of the love of God realization came to me. I cannot share my personal experiences on this forum, but I can say that the visit of Parsifal in the Grail castle in ethereal plane, where Amfortas failed, was very familiar with me. I have a personal relationship to this particular event. You can easily find out if I’m lying, I’m sure you will find out if I'm lying if you investigate this claim of mine.

Hi Justcool. Thanks for taking your time to address the questions I raised. It is a healthy thing to always speak according to ones intuition. My apologies for misreading some of the points that you have raised. I have read your new explanations and I am better informed of your position. However your assertion that the wrong principle of Lucifer manifested in the spiritual and primordial planes is not in accord with my own experiences of these events (some of it directly and others shown to me by guides). I also do not believe that the attack that Lucifer directed to Elizabeth/infant Parsifal happened in the Primordial Spiritual. I am not inwardly moved to offer detailed explanations. I know you are honest about what you are saying. If it is the Truth, nothing will stop it from being confirmed by the will of God. If it is not the Truth,it will fall away and come to nothing. The same also applies to my own stand on this issue. As always, stay blessed.

jayriginal: Thanks M_Nwankwo

I think I understand what you mean when you say "that particular soul", but just for the avoidance of doubt what I meant was your general take of the book.

The idea of higher and lower planes, the beings that inhabit them which which ascend or descend into planes depending on their conduct whilst in a particular plane, the mirror image of cities that existed during ones earthly years, the notion that ones thoughts draw like minded "spirits".

Do you hold these things to be true ?


EDIT:
I just read your response again and it clarifies some of what I just asked.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you too. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Justcool. Thanks for taking your time to address the questions I raised. It is a healthy thing to always speak according to ones intuition. My apologies for misreading some of the points that you have raised. I have read your new explanations and I am better informed of your position. However your assertion that the wrong principle of Lucifer manifested in the spiritual and primordial planes is not in accord with my own experiences of these events (some of it directly and others shown to me by guides). I also do not believe that the attack that Lucifer directed to Elizabeth/infant Parsifal happened in the Primordial Spiritual. I am not inwardly moved to offer detailed explanations. I know you are honest about what you are saying. If it is the Truth, nothing will stop it from being confirmed by the will of God. If it is not the Truth,it will fall away and come to nothing. The same also applies to my own stand on this issue. As always, stay blessed.

@m_nwankwo.
Thanks for the above. My words are my perceptions, I remain a human spirit and not immune to mistakes. If my perception of this issue is wrong, then over time I will become aware of it.

However I need to quickly say that I never said exactly that Lucifer's principle manifested in the spiritual and primordial. "Manifest" would not be my choice of words. What I said is that Lucifer sent his disturbing principle of temptation to all creatures both in the spiritual and primordial; in other words he tempted everybody, but the spirits in Paradise and Primordial spiritual quickly repelled this temptation and hence rendered Lucifer powerless in their environment. Only in subsequent creation did mankind yield to this temptation by letting themselves go. The effect of his principle or the effect of his disturbance manifested in the weakening of the spiritual planes and the wound on the Lambs body. It is not the principle itself that manifested in the spiritual and Primordial spiritual; such a principle cannot get a firm hold up there, but was quickly repelled. However the damage that this principle caused on mankind who yielded to it manifested in weakening the spiritual planes and the lamb on the Divine.

Perhaps I failed to express myself in clear terms.

You are right in my position as to where Elizabeth struggled against Lucifer’s volition. I maintain that this struggle was in the highest plane of the Primordial spiritual planes.

Thanks and remain blessed.

Igirangor!who is goin 2 pay 4 all these bandwidth space

Hello Justcool,

Much gratitude for your answers and explanations. Very glad that M_nwankwo has made it here as well. Thanks for all your contributions.

My next question is related to the chapter in the Grail Message titled "In the Workshop of the Elemental Beings" (something close to that actually). As all material inventions of mankind on earth are first or already developed by the elementals (indeed the Message states that our finest technical material achievements are yet to come)..........I had please wanted to request if you could explain this phenomenon/process i.e. essentially shed light on this chapter of the Message.
More importantly, wanted to ask why so many of our technical inventions on Earth are so harmful/polluting to us and our environment. If what we develop is actually what is already done by the elementals, one would expect that such products will not be intrinsically harmful to our immediate material creation environment as well as ourselves as the elementals swing in the Laws.

Also, what is the latest on your book Justcool? When is it coming out?

Thanks.

@speer
I can’t thank you enough for giving me the opportunity to share my perception on this issue which many attackers of the Grail Message have always held as a shining proof of the inconsistency of the Grail Message. But I have perceived the Grail Message to be very consistent, and foolproof. Hence I will gladly use this opportunity to address this issue.

Speer: Hello Justcool,
My next question is related to the chapter in the Grail Message titled "In the Workshop of the Elemental Beings" (something close to that actually). As all material inventions of mankind on earth are first or already developed by the elementals (indeed the Message states that our finest technical material achievements are yet to come)..........I had please wanted to request if you could explain this phenomenon/process i.e. essentially shed light on this chapter of the Message.

Before I deal with the crux of your question, let me use this opportunity to highlight a very important fact revealed on that chapter. And that is: The astral plane is not the reflection of the physical, as mankind had thought up till the grace of the Grail message. Indeed it is the physical that is the reflection of the astral.
The implication is that the physical is like a mirror of an actual image. And the perfection of the image on the mirror depends greatly on the purity of the mirror. Hence a bad mirror may give picture that is ugly and not corresponding exactly with the object that it reflects. A beautiful girl may appear ugly on a bad mirror.
Hence if there is a problem in the process of reflection, a perfect object may appear imperfect in the mirror.

Speer:
More importantly, wanted to ask why so many of our technical inventions on Earth are so harmful/polluting to us and our environment. If what we develop is actually what is already done by the elementals, one would expect that such products will not be intrinsically harmful to our immediate material creation environment as well as ourselves as the elementals swing in the Laws.

The analogy above about the mirror clears this puzzle. Mankind is the mirror. Just like a mirror receives impressions or rays from an object and represents them on the surface of the mirror, mankind receives from the elementals in the astral planes and represents or passes on what they received down to heaviest gross matter. But mankind, due to indolence have become very rough or unpolished mirrors; in that they no longer receive in purity.

Another way to analogize it is to consider the relationship between teachers and their students. The teachers write on the blackboard, and the students represent, copy, or pass down on their notebooks. Just as the teacher considers the size of the black and arranges his writings to fit into the blackboard, the students do the same with their notebooks. In this analogy, the teachers are the elementals, while the students are mankind. A bad student may not copy correctly what the teacher wrote on the blackboard, and in such case it is the students fault and not the teachers. The inventions of the elementals or the prototypes in the astral are adjusted to the laws of creation as they manifest in the astral plane. It is mankind’s duty, in passing down these inventions, to adjust them to the laws of creation as they manifest in the physical. This part of the job is left to the intellect which should be used under the supervision of the spiritual intuition. The teachers write in chalk while the student writes in pen or pencil; the elementals invent in astral while mankind represent these inventions in the physical. A student who doesn’t know how to use a pen or a pencil and paper correctly will not represent the information on the board correctly in his notebook. Mankind do not know as much as they should about physical laws, hence they only use crude means to achieve or power their inventions; since the means to power a physical invention, has to be a physical means; mankind due to indolence and lack of knowledge uses the wrong kind of means to power their inventions. And this is where pollution comes in. Cars for example, need not run on gasoline or fuel; cars can be powered by safer elements or means rather than gasoline.

Another analogy is the relationship between of a speaker and his interpreter. The speaker speaks in German, the interpreter translates, represents, or passes down in English. The speaker observes the grammartical laws of the German language while forming his sentences; while the translator is left to observe the laws of grammar in English while converting or translating to English. If the translator is not knowledgeable in English language, he will commit a lot of blunders and grammatical errors while translating. Such errors should be attributed the translator and not the speaker who may be speaking perfect German. One can rightly say that everything the interpreter says is handed down to him by the German speaker, just as one can rightly say that every invention on earth is handed down by the elementals. But this does not means that the very words that the interpreter uses are handed down to him by the German speaker. Only the meaning, the idea, or the sense of the words are handed down by the German speaker to the interpreter, who then has to cloak these ideas in English words. The choice of English words to use is totaly up to the interpreter. Hence the inventors on earth have to implement or adapt the ideas they recieve from above to earthly physical laws in manner that fits perfectly in the Will of God. This is man's duty.


Hence, it is the idea that is passed down, not necessarily the mechanism behind the idea which must correspond or adapt to the Laws of creation as they manifest in the plane concerned.

Let’s assume that there are creatures on the moon (This is just an assumption to make a point; there are no creatures on the moon), and let's call these creatures Lunar beings. If these creatures see that there are cars on earth, or if the car makers on earth pass on the idea of moving vehicles to these lunar beings; and they decide to build cars or moving vehicles on the moon too, the lunar beings will not necessarily use the same mechanism that we use on earth to power or animate our cars. They will consider the gravity on the moon which is different from that on earth; hence they will have to use different materials for their cars. They will also consider the kinds of fuels that are available in the moon, the topography of the moon, temperature, weather, and etc. In the end they will build a car with a totally different mechanism than cars on earth. However the idea of cars were handed on to them by men on earth; hence it is correct to say that the invention was handed or passed on to them by carmakers on earth. If the lunar beings out of laziness or lack of knowledge of what they can derive from their natural sources, decide to use their infants to power or fuel their cars, that is their business. The fault is all theirs alone not ours. One cannot accuse the carmakers on earth of inventing a machine that runs on infants. Hence you cannot accuse the elementals of inventing things that destroy, pollute or harm our environment. These harms came from man’s inability to adapt or implement ideas within the physical laws in a correct manner, or in a manner that corresponds to the Will of God. Mankind simply choose the wrong way to achieve these ideas or models on earth.


One fact that cannot be overlooked is that man being spiritual possess free-will; in everything he does, man employs his free-will; hence he chooses what to receive and how to pass it down. Man is never forced to do anything; even the spirits in Paradise and above have to employ their free-will in their works. In the wrong use of the free-will lies the cause of mankind’s failure in everything, even in passing down prototypes that exist in the astral. Hence due to this wrong use of free-will mankind decides with their spiritual activity, the things to pass down and the things not to. Today many good things are not passed down because mankind chose the wrong way. The substantiate lack free-will, they always stand in the will of God; and hence the works that come through them are always a true representatives of the higher prototypes. Works like mountains, meadows, rivers, flowers, plants and etc., are works of the animistic(substantiate); these works do not require the passing down or mediation of man, hence they are always beautiful. We humans often marvel at the beauty of nature.

Another cause of this problem is indolence of the spirit. The spirit’s inability to subjugate the intellect. Passing down in gross matter requires the involvment of the intellect. The intellect is given to us to as a tool to use in dealing with the physical; hence every model that needs to be built on the earth requires the employment of the intellect. When the intellect has the ruling hand instead of the spiritual intuition, the work done will lack love and consideration of other creatures because the intellect being physical only deals with the physical, it cannot lead upwards to the spiritual, love and etc. It quickly looks for a way to achieve the job in view of materialistic needs (money and etc.) completely devoid of love. Naturaly, the intellect, being a material tool can only take material(Physical) needs into consideration but not the Spiritual needs or consequences. Hence the intellect should be controlled or supervised by the spiritual intuition.

To make myself clearer, let me give an example. Prototypes of vehicles of transportation exist in the astral plane; the elementals are ready to hand these inventions to mankind. Indeed some people on earth perceive these prototypes, albeit unconsciously; consequently thoughts awaken in them to build vehicles for transportation. Especially the people on earth who are inventors and who are concerned about transportation problem on earth; these concern link them to the elementals who already have built prototypes of moving vehicles. And through this link, these inventors on earth are filled with the urge to build, as they do so, thoughts and ideas come to them. Little do they know that these thoughts and ideas are received from the elementals. Indeed some of them see these prototypes in their dreams, but when they wake up they don’t recall their dreams consciously; some of them have ingenuous ideas and visions which they attribute to themselves, not knowing that these are impressions received from the beyond. However to implement this vision or idea of a moving vehicle on earth, they have to use their intellect as a tool to adopt or impliment thier vissions or ideas to the physical laws so that they(the inventions or ideas) can function on earth. And since these inventors are ruled by their intellect alone, in implementing this vision, their primary concern would by fame, money, and glory. Hence they will look for the fastest way to achieve this vision or idea that they have, (an idea they received from the prototype in the beyond) to make more money and achieve fame. Since the spiritual intuition is not employed, the inventors, while inventing or unconsciously passing down, neglects God, thier fellow man, and thier environment; thier primary concern is fame and money. Hence they will not pass down the prototypes in purity.

Take cars for example! One who knows science knows that there is no good reason why cars should run on gasoline; the only reason why cars run on gasoline today is that a lot of people make money from mankind’s unnatural and excessive dependence on crude oil. A deeper knowledge of Chemistry will acquaint one of the fact that cars can run on water which is less harmful to mankind and the environment. But today Money drives mankind; profit is the motivating core for all man’s endeavors today! Otherwise no scientist or inventor would invent anything that destroys or pollutes the environment. Any such invention only implies a wrong or inadequate passing down.

Take electricity for example! There is no good reason why we can’t have wireless transportation of electricity. Just as you receive your radio signals wirelessly, you can also receive electrical energy that way; not through energized cables which are very dangerous! Nikola Tesla worked towards this and made a lot of progress towards wireless transportation of electricity but nobody founded his research. Tesla died a pauper! Labeled a mad man! Read about him, his story is very touching. Today nobody thinks towards that direction because nobody would make money from wireless electricity transportation. They need to control it through wires so that they can track it and make you pay for it! Today if two people come with an invention, the law makers would approve the one that would give them more profit, irrespective of whether the invention was rightly passed down or not.

Look at cell phones for example! Their radiation is not good for the brain and can cause tumors and cancers. But the idea or the prototype is indeed in the astral but was wrongly passed down. The idea of using a device to communicate across long distances has been among mankind for a long time. In the past when inventors were humble and passed down more accurately, some men were able to achieve, though crystal balls, what we achieve today with cell phones. The idea of crystal ball is neither black magic nor Voodoo but science! Science that goes beyond the boundary of gross matter. Some stones are able to gather certain energy and when cut into the right shape by knowledgeable inventors, can help man's physical and astral body and he can also communicate to people in distant lands through it. A man in Nigeria gazes into his crystal ball and sees and talks to his friend in America who also see and hear him though his own crystal ball. And the stones are not given randomly, but only in consideration of the man's nature, radiation and etc. This is the right passing down of the communication device which exists in the astral! But mankind of today has closed themselves inwardly and hence can no longer be lead to such knowledge; hence they substitute their lack of knowledge with purely intellectual ideas and means. But real or correct passing down requires real knowledge which can only come from humility.

If you read that lecture carefully, you will see that not only the prototypes are drawn from the elementals, but even the skill of the craftsman or inventors. Hence if the inventor is humble and spiritually alert, his skill will be closely united with the skills of the elementals and this will make him extremely skillful. Through this union so much knowledge about the mysteries of creation will be given to him, and in this knowledge his inventions, transferring, or passing down, will be done correctly and in a manner that corresponds with the will of God. Today, due to lack of humility, mankind knows nothing, even in the field of natural science.

Putting it all together: Our inventions are polluting and harming our environment because of our inability to pass down correctly, or our inability to adapt these models in the correct manner to the physical laws of creation. There are so many was to build or power a moving vehicle physicaly, but only a few ways to build it or make it function in a manner that corresponds to the Will of God. It is our duty to find the Will of God in the laws of our environment; this goes hand in hand with our spiritual development and maturity. The elementals will not do this for us, especially when we are too arrogant. The student must learn to write with pen or pencil and paper; this is why he is in school. The teacher would not do the student's work, but can help the student if the student is humble and willing to learn. If our inventors are spiritually alert, spiritually mobile, and humble towards the creator, their skills would have been more refined, and better ways of achieving or powering these inventions on earth would have been shown to them.

To summarize. Whenever it is a case involving human spirits, you can never rule out free-will. The wrong use of free-will on earth is the major problem why inventors on earth fail to transfer or pass down prototypes in the right manner. Spiritual indolence, lack of humility, and the worship of the intellect, are also the results of the wrong use of free-will. The elementals in the beyond cannot and do not interfere with mankind’s free-will. They can only build prototypes, adapted to astral laws, and hand over to mankind who must use their intellect to implement on earth or adapt to physical laws; whether mankind decides to pass down according to the will of God, or whether mankind decides to pass down according to the will of their intellect for profit and etc., is left to mankind to decide. The decision is always free. The spirit is never forced, it always has a free-will; hence it bears the responsibility for all its choices.

I will end by quoting a paragraph from the Chapter(In The Gross Material Workshop Of The Elemental Beings) of the Grail Message:
“And yet, although the models are so easily attainable for those who are not only serious but also humble seekers, much has again been distorted here upon earth through the intellect, because in most cases those endowed with the ability lacked the requisite humility to draw in purity, and furthermore because the inhabitants of the earth, through their conceit which hampers everything, have so far paid no attention to the Laws of God in Creation. Not until they obtain exact knowledge of these Laws will the inventing or, more correctly expressed, the discovering on other planes, and consequently also the correct transfer into heavy gross material substance of this earth, become much easier and more accurate than it has been so far. It will also become much more extensive. ” (In The Light Of Truth: The Grail Message. By Abd-ru-shin)

Speer:

Also, what is the latest on your book Justcool? When is it coming out?

The manuscript is already with the publisher; at the moment it is being edited. My busy schedule is delaying things. I will strive to have it out by December; otherwise it will be out by first quarter of next year. You will definitely get a free copy!

Speer:
Thanks.

Thanks and remain blessed.

.

Wow, prompt response!!! Thanks.

Is the immense accelleration of technical abilities in the last 150 years of any significance in World Happenings?


WRT the discussion on Lucifer, had wanted to ask: was/is there no one to replace him (at the same level)in the Divine Sphere and so carry out his tasks as originally intended.............thereby mitigating the consequences of his fall somewhat? Pardon me for the inquiry if you find it childish.

Much obliged as always.

Hello all, In Vol. 1 (Lecture: Ascent) the ffg is stated:

"You should give to your neighbor with your being, your nature! Not necessarily with money and goods. For then those without means would be excluded from the possibility of giving."

Had please wanted to ask for the all-encompassing meaning/explanation of the above....."with your being, your nature!"

Thanks and have an enriching week.

@Speer.
I genuinely apologize for this very late reply. I’ve been very busy recently. Even now, I’m giving you this reply at the expense of time allotted to something else. As always, you raised very deep and worthy questions which require exhaustive explanation, hence I will explain extensively. Always feel free to bring to my attention the parts of my explanation that are not clear to you.

Speer:
Is the immense accelleration of technical abilities in the last 150 years of any significance in World Happenings?

Of course it does. It coincides with the entrance of the much awaited Helper in to subsequent creation. Coming from on high and equipped with Divine power, He awakens everything! All that is dead in creation shall be awakened so that it may pass judgment upon itself.
Divine power is neutral, hence can be used for both good and evil. But it forces everything into movement, even that which hitherto has been sluggish in its movement is quickened, so that it can reveal itself.

So is it with everything, our physical bodies, our spirits, and the qualities that lie hidden within us. Nothing can hide before the light, not even our abilities and inclinations. Even our intellectual abilities! Hence it is written that the antichrist will raise his head before the Day of Judgment. The antichrist is Lucifer himself; ‘his head’ refers to his power over mankind or his tool which is the intellect of man, over cultivation of the intellect or one sided intellectual development.
Now with the entrance of Divine power into subsequent creation, everything receives greater power and hence rushes towards fruition—annihilation for that which is evil and strengthening for that which is good.

Hence every habit is revealed and every inclination is forced to manifest into a deed. The fact the most noticeable acceleration in man occurs in mankind’s technical abilities clearly shows that the majority of mankind is inclined only towards technology and craftsmanship, and these are abilities of the intellect. Hence majority of mankind worship their intellect. This is very clearly seen today, the judgment has forced this evil to reveal its face for those who are seeing to see and detach themselves from it before it parishes. In this era just look at how much intellectual knowledge and training(schools, colleges, and universities) that one needs just to earn a living or as the Revelation of John puts it “buy and sell”. One is forced to cultivate his intellect before he can earn a living. Exactly as the revelation said, one cannot buy or sell without the mark of the beast her/his forehead or right hand. Here the ‘forehead’ refers to the brain, and the ‘right hand’ refers to the work of man, their handy work. The mark of the beast, the effect of over cultivation of the intellect always leaves its mark on the brain(disproportionality between the frontal and back brain) and on the works(right hand) of mankind.

This acceleration of technical abilities, and others things, also shows that they(majority of mankind) directed the power they receive to their intellect alone, hence works requiring the intellect flourished. If mankind had been inclined towards spirituality, this time, they would have become completely spiritualized; for now they receive the all animating and all-encompassing power of God directly through this helper and His Star.

It is not only technological abilities and inventions that flourished this time. Everything! In this era we have men as evil as has never been before; we also have men as good as have never been before. Everything flourishes now. But unfortunately only a few men are inclined to spiritual development; hence the good ones are far fewer than those pursuing wrong courses.

Speer:
WRT the discussion on Lucifer, had wanted to ask: was/is there no one to replace him (at the same level)in the Divine Sphere and so carry out his tasks as originally intended.............thereby mitigating the consequences of his fall somewhat? Pardon me for the inquiry if you find it childish .

This is a very worthy question! Such questioning will only lead us to see the Love of God which is evidenced in all events and light happenings. It is far from being childish.

To fully understand my explanation about to unfold, please read the following chapters of the grail Message:
The Stranger (volume I),
The Son of Man (Volume II),
World Events (Volume II)
Let There Be Light (Volume III),
The Primordial Spiritual Planes I – VII (Volume III)

In-order to fully answer this question lets briefly name major consequences of Lucifer’s fall. The consequence of his fall (1) weakened the spiritual spheres, (2) caused mankind to develop wrongly and hence get trapped in the world of matter, (3) disturbed the necessary harmony in the worlds of matter and caused it to develop wrongly.

Hence in this case, the explanation I gave you earlier about how any willing person can stand-in and fulfill the work of a failing called one does not suffice. For in this case only one who issued from a sphere higher than Lucifer can stand-in and arrest both Lucifer and the consequence of his failure. Spirits, even Primordial spirits are out of the question because based on origins, Lucifer is far stronger than any spirit. Even Divine beings dared not battle Lucifer in matter, for Lucifer carried a special power that was given to him to use to aid mankind in their development; hence when the battle ground is matter and mankind, Lucifer is very powerful.

Lucifer’s struggle was not just a struggle against mankind but against God and the entire creation, for only Lucifer is the real enemy of God. Man(either spiritual and Primordial spiritual), based on his origin can only have a limited impact on creation; and hence even when he does wrong, he is only harming himself; he can never constitute a real enemy of God; he is simply too small. But Lucifer’s case is different; his origin endowed him enough abilities as to be truly considered an enemy of God! For if left unchecked, he can plunge the entire creation into ruins; and he know where to attack first for his knows the laws of creation far more than any spirit can. He always attacks the source, power centers or power channels. Hence he weakened the spiritual sphere, for he knew that the spiritual sphere is the power of creation; once cut off from God, the entire creation will surly dry up and die. Just as in the human couple, he attacked the woman first; for he knew, based on the law of creation, that the woman was the channel through which man partly receives spiritual power, and once the woman is cut off from the Light, the man will most likely fail too. And in the case of the human couple, Lucifer succeeded very well. This attack on women is painted pictorially in Genesis.

So to mitigate the disastrous effect of Lucifer’s failure on the spiritual sphere, only one especially powerful can be employed. No Divine being can effectively do this, because this necessitates a closer connection between spirituality and the source of all Life and Power – God or Divinity unsubstantiate. Divinity unsubstantiate or a part of Godhead HIMSELF had to be embodied or remain eternally in the spiritual realm, so that through Him this realm will be strengthened again. This is a special grace of God and I will explain it further as I proceed with my explanation; it is one of the stupendous events that happened in creation. Every part of creation received tidings of it; on earth, through Isaiah, we received the tidings of this almost supernatural event. This sacrifice of eternally placing a part of God in creation is a magnitude act of such great love that no creature can fully appreciate it! Not even Lucifer, for it took him by surprise, hence he fought with all his might against this incarnation or embodiment which naturally had to happen through Elizabeth the Primordial queen.

And this part of God that was embodied in the Primordial spiritual realm is Imanuel, the son of man!
And here I’m not talking strictly of Parsifal, as it’s often assumed. Although Parsifal can also quite rightly be called the son of man; and this spiritually embodied Imanuel in the Primordial spiritual realm can also be called Parsifal for He had to proceed into creation through Parsifal who is the pure gate that leads from Divine sphere to creation.
For if you read the Grail Message carefully you will realize, towards the latter chapters, that Parsifal is not really Part of the Primordial spiritual realm. There are seven planes or rings of the Primordial spiritual sphere, and Parsifal cannot be placed properly in any of them. Parsifal resides in the Grail castle slightly above the first ring or plane of the Primordial spiritual sphere; this castle is an annex to the Divine Grail castle at outermost border of the Divine substantial sphere; an annex which came into existence with the fiat, “Let There Be Light!”

This annex to the Divine Grail castle is made of the finest of all that is Primordial spiritual and hence is still more etherealized than the first plane of Primordial spiritual, and yet not part of the Divine sphere. No Primordial spiritual being can enter this castle in which resides Parsifal as the Primordial cloak or anchorage of a part of Imanuel. This part of Imanuel Himself stands within the Divine substantial realm, in the Divine Grail castle, surrounded by the elders or eternal ones, exactly as the writer of Revelation was allowed to see. And only Imanuel(and Jesus of course) whose core is Divinity unsubstantiate carry the Light of God which is Life. Hence with the fiat, “Let There be Light,” this part of Imanuel proceed from God and entered this Grail castle at the outermost bother of the Divine substantial plane.

In order to prevent this part of Imanuel from being pulled back into Divinity Unsubstantiate as the law of attraction of homogeneous species stipulated, this part of Imanuel received an anchorage of the finest of the primordial spiritual specie. And this anchorage is Parsifal. And through the radiation connection between Imanual in the Divine Substantiate sphere and Parsifal outside this sphere, the unformed radiations of God to which the spiritual belong, and which could not take on form in the Divine sphere, was able to cross the boundary of the Divine sphere and form itself into planes around Parsifal. This is how creation came into being. Hence to use the words of the Grail message, from the lecture ‘Let There be Light,’we read:
“ Imanuel is the cause and starting point of Creation through sending out of a Part of Him. He is the Will of God, Who carries the Word: “Let There be Light!” living within Himself!”

So the power of God in Imanuel in the Divine sphere, far above creation, only enters creation through Parsifal, who although wearing a Primordial spiritual cloak is still far above the highest ring or highest Primordial spiritual plane. The relationship between Parsifal and the Primordial spiritual sphere could be likened to that of the sun and the sky. Looking from below we say that the sun is in the sky along with the clouds and etc. But in reality the sun does not belong in the sky but above it; although it is made of gasses just as the sky is. Parsifal can be likened as the sun, while the Primordial spiritual sphere is likened to the sky.

Hence when as a result of Lucifer’s failure the spiritual sphere weakened, it became necessary that Imanuel Himself should be incarnated into the Primordial Spiritual sphere. Only Divinity unsubstantaite carry light(white light), which is life and power; hence only God in or through Imanuel and Jesus can give the spiritual sphere the Life that it needs to recover from Lucifer’ s disturbing influence. But here Jesus is out of the question because Jesus does not really belong to creation, but only entered it on a mission to save mankind and subsequent creation; and consequently after this mission which He fulfilled successfully, Jesus retuned to Divinity unsubstantaite, to God.

So a part of Imanuel became embodied in the Spiritual sphere (Primordial spiritual plane to be precise) and through him the Light, which is the Life, came close to the Spiritual; closer to the spiritual than Parsifal is to the spiritual. And this is not just receiving a spiritual cloak as in the case with Parsifal, but actually uniting with the spiritual and having a spiritual body. This unification of the spiritual with Divinity and Divinity unsubtsantiate implies being eternally separated from Divinity unsubstantiate, but permits and even conditions entrance into the Divine substantial sphere. With this incarnation, this part of Imanuel becomes God-Man! Part God and part spirit. It was this incarnation that Isaiah was allowed to see and report. This incarnation implies that Divine power flows straight from God into the spiritual sphere without any weakening or transitioning.

Lucifer knew the implication of this, hence as soon as he perceived that this was about to take place, he prepared for battle, so he attacked the primordial Queen for only through her can this incarnation or embodiment take place; he attacked her as she was passing down this unsubstantiate part of Imanuel into the Primordial spiritual sphere.

When it was said in the Revelations that to save the child from Lucifer’s attack (the dragon), the Child "was snatched up to God"; this is a pictorial rendering of an actual happening. For to prevent currents of darkness from reaching the child(the infant or newly spiritually embodied Imanuel) in the Primordial spiritual sphere, the child was taken back to the Divine substantial sphere after His birth in the Primordial spiritual sphere. Although due to his origin, which endowed him enormous strength, Lucifer could cause a disturbing influence on the spiritual sphere, he could not do so in the Divine substantial sphere. So in the Divine sphere this child was totally safe from Lucifer’s hampering and disturbing influence. Like I explained already, wearing a spiritual body prevents Him (the spiritually embodied part of Imanuel) eternally from reuniting with God(Divinity unsubstantiated) as Jesus did after His mission, but Imanuel’s origin permits that He can enter the Divine substantial sphere, for a while, even with His Primordial spiritual body.

To further explain; to give a hint as the difference between this spiritually embodied part of Imanuel and the Parsifal around Whom creation formed, I will say that: Although both of them proceeded from Imanuel in the Divine, in Parsifal Imanuel received or works through a cloak, a primordial spiritual cloak; hence Parsifal is the primordial spiritual vessel of Imanuel. But the spiritually embodied Imanuel does not just have a primordial spiritual cloak but a primordial spiritual body; hence in Him Imanuel comes closer to the spiritual sphere, to the Primordial spiritual and also to human spirits(man) because man also issue from the spiritual sphere. The difference between body and cloak is that one’s core is not bound to his/her cloak; the individual and his/her cloak are two different things; the individual only works through the cloak and can detach from the cloak. A body is different, for a body is part of the individual; the body is the form of the core and both are inseparable. It is only out of the inadequacy of our language that we say that man on earth has a physical body. But actually this wrong! Very impossible and very contrary to the laws of creation! Man on earth has a physical cloak or vessel! Man being spiritual can only have a spiritual body, never an ethereal or physical body!

I hope this explanation about body and vessel/cloak helps you understand the great sacrifice that Imanuel made, and the reason why Imanuel had to receive a Primordial spiritual body. Before this embodiment, at the beginning, the Light and Life resulting from the unsubtantiate core of Imanuel only entered creation through a vessel – Parsifal. But after His spiritual embodiment, Imanuel becomes part of creation! Part of the spiritual sphere! He becomes both a spirit and a Divine unsubstantiate being. Hence Christ called Him the ‘spirit of Truth’. A part of God that was made man for the sake of the spiritual! By becoming partly spiritual He stood a better ground to understand man, to know man’s weaknesses, than Christ did; he stood closer to man than Christ did; and His having a Divine unsubstantiate core lends Him power over all that is spiritual and all creations which precipitated out of the spiritual sphere. Hence He is the ruler of all the worlds.

This spiritually embodied part of Imanuel that was taken up to the Divine sphere, as an infant, retuned to the spiritual sphere after the angels have completely dispelled Lucifer’s disturbing influence or disturbing volition(the dragon) from primordial creation; the dragon(Lucifer’s disturbing volition) which was to harm the child. This spiritually embodied part of Imanuel spent his youthhood in the Primordial spiritual sphere. His training took thousands of years; His body evidenced his maturity or readiness for his mission. He was still a youth when the urgent necessity to save subsequent creation arose, hence He couldn’t be sent for He had not grown into His mission. Hence Jesus had to accomplish the mission of saving subsequent creation through a physical vessel.

This spiritually embodiment of this part of Imanuel in the Primordial spiritual, redoubled the power and strength of the entire spiritual sphere(both Primordial and spiritual spheres). As He matured his Divine power flowed more into the spiritual, greatly strengthening it. As happened with Parsifal, in time, around Him formed a Grail castle, and Grail knights, starting with the four Grail knights. The completion of this strengthening of the spiritual sphere totally made it impossible for Lucifer’s disturbing influence or volition to make any impact on the kingdom of God. Hence Isaiah wrote, “Take counsel together, but it will come to nothing; speak the word, but it will not stand, for God is with us!” Whatever wrong or disturbing volition that is voiced or spoken(created or formed) by any creature, or any counsel contrary to the will of God comes to naught immediately because the living Will of God Imanuel is now here in creation, in the primordial creation!
After safe guarding Primordial creation from Lucifer’s disturbing influence or volitions, at the appointed hour, this spiritually embodied part of Imanuel, the Son of Man, entered subsequent creation to purify it of Lucifer’s influence and proclaim it part of the kingdom of His Father. At first He was only to incarnate into the highest part of the ethereal realm; for to purify the entire subsequent creation, incarnation into the gross matter was not necessary. Just as the spiritual is a reflection of the primordial spiritual; hence strengthening the Primordial consequently strengthens the spiritual. The gross material realms are a reflection of the ethereal realms; hence purifying the ethereal realm will consequently, gradually but surely, purify the gross material realms too. But thousands of years before this appointed entrance of the Son Of Man into subsequent creation, Jesus while working on earth, saw that mankind was too immature and too inclined towards darkness to survive the purification that the Son Of Man will bring later. Hence He prayed to the Father to permit the Son Of Man to incarnate on earth when during His mission in subsequent creation, to lend mankind additional help in the midst of the judgment which will surely destroy all darkness. And the almighty granted this request which bore Divine love for the earing mankind. Hence at the appointed hour, the Son Of Man incarnated into a physical body prepared for Him by volition of Parsifal. This volition of Parsifal had to incarnate into a physical body to gradually purify and strengthen it as well as the entire earth, otherwise neither the earth nor the physical body could have withstood the enormous power of Imanuel. After the purification of this body and after proclaiming the word of the Father once more, Imanuel the son of man stepped into this physical body(vessel/cloak).

The events that happened from then showed clearly enough that after many years sending mankind prophets to prepare mankind for this visit, mankind was not ready to deal with such nearness to God. The power urged them to wards annihilation, the earth shock like a thing unfirm, volcanoes erupted, oceans overflowed, until the Almighty called His servant to return home.

However the mission has been accomplished. But due to the density of matter, movement or manifestation takes time. Hence judging from the outside it appears as if subsequent creation is still under Lucifer’s firm grasp. But this is not the case! The darkness, along with its principle has been overruled; Lucifer has been bound! And the spear has been wrested from him. This is a feat that only one whose origin is higher than Lucifer’s could accomplish. For equipped with this spear and Lucifer will easily win any battle in subsequent creation because the density of matter lends darkness greater power. And this spear gave him power over mankind, over the spiritual; however he could never take away their free-will; he could only send his volition to the spirits, to tempt the spirits and set traps for them. And in this regard he was very powerful. Hence only the Son Of Man, who unites spirituality with Divinity unsubstantiate, could gain greater power over mankind than and the entire subsequent creation than Lucifer. But even this Son Of Man would not take away man’s free-will but can only greatly incline men towards making the right choices; just as Lucifer with his power inclined mankind towards making wrong choices. However, the final decision belongs to each spirit; man’s fate always only lies in his hands.

Looking at the world today, one sees evil at its height, and one not looking from the spiritual perspective concludes that Darkness is still strong. But one who knows the laws creation knows that it is not so. As with the physical body, so it is with the entire material creation. Right before dying, the physical body jerks, struggles and etc. Even a sick body that had been lying quietly and motionless on bed for days, weeks, months, or even years, often awakens to jerking movements right before dying. A child might think that this struggle or jerking, which is sometimes vigorous, is a sure sign of invigoration, recovery or life; but in reality it a sure sign of death or the withdrawal of Life. Imagine a man being choked! He struggles and struggles. The nearer he approaches death, the more he struggles until he finally dies. What we see today is the final death struggle of darkness; for the power of darkness(Lucifer) has been broken. The more this darkness in subsequent creation approaches annihilation, the more it struggles; exactly as in the case of a man being chocked.

Imagine a butcher who has cut off the oxygen supply of an animal by cutting its throat. This butcher does not need to stay till the animal dies; for he knows that without oxygen the animal will surly die. So once he cuts off the oxygen supply he may leave the scene and continue with other chores he had to do. A child watching may think the butcher hadn’t done his job of killing the animal for the animal actually became more vigorous after its throat was cut. What the child doesn’t know is that what appears to him as vigorous movements are noting but death struggle. Hence when people today ask, “Why is there so much darkness, wars, and wickedness on earth if the Son Of Man, Who was to bring the kingdom of God has come?” The people who ask such questions are like the child asking why an animal whose throat has been cut is struggling.

Hence, in the light of all these explanations, you can see that the consequence of Lucifer’s failure has not just been mitigated but has been completely annulled by the Son Of Man. (1)The spiritual plane has not only been strengthened, but strengthened in such a manner that it can’t be weakened again. For God dwell eternally with man! Through the spiritual embodiment of the Son Of Man. (2) Mankind has been given the strength to complete their development in the right manner, and the knowledge of how to do this in a record time has been given to mankind through the message of the God which came to us at the behest our loving lord – Jesus. (3) Through the power of the son of man now directed into subsequent creation through many channels, even the radiant star, gives subsequent creation direct assesse to the Power of God which restores harmony and subsequent creation is gradually but surely casting out all that developed wrongly and is gradually developing in the right manner.
It is left to each spirit in subsequent creation to decide her/his fate. You can decide to align yourself with the words of the Son Of Man and consequently receive strength to develop yourself in a God willed manner, and survive the judgment or purification; or to align yourself to darkness and perish along with it. For in the midst of this collapse of all that is evil, the word of the Father rings out! Calling any willing spirit to pay heed to It and at the same time showing the way out of destruction. We can’t thank Jesus enough for this word!

Holy Holy is Imanuel!



Thanks and remain blessed. I will deal with the rest of your questions when time permits.