Ibime:



You missed the point completely.

Barca fan popizaino tried to blame Lampard for Torres flopping so I asked him why he didn't blame Fabregas for Morata flopping.

The point is a dud striker is a dud striker, even John Stockton can't assist them.

Let's not forget that Costa literally went on strike in January 2017 trying to push through a move to China and was useless till season end, yet the midfield stability of the Matic-Kante combo gave the team the platform to perform even with a non-existent striker for the second half of the season, something Fabregas couldn't do the next season. The difference in midfield stability between Matic-Kante and Fabregas-Kante was like night and day.

Show us Torres missing from lampard's ball.

That shouldn't be hard for you

swiz123:
The thing airmark sometimes fail to understand is that, Liverpool's excellent defensive record isn't just because of their defenders. Liverpool's press is often too difficult to by pass, thereby making it difficult for opponents to create reasonable chances to trouble the defence. That explains why Fabinho seamlessly slot into VVD's role, and bench warmer Matip looking like Vidic.

With that said, VVD is a great defender that benefits immensely from the Jurgen Klopp system. Don't give him too much credit than he deserves.

Let Liverpool swap VVD for Rudiger, let's see if they will win UCL and Epl with their quality press. They played few matches without him and just 1 clean sheet in 4 matches, we no go hear word.

Watch VVD's highlights below and tell me how opponents didn't threaten them because of their pressing game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkOWWXAK7Cg

Ibime:


Matic Vs Fabregas is finished.

Matic went on to improve Manure while Fabregas went on to downgrade Chelsea and now sitting on the bench behind some Guinea-Bissau or Central African Republic midfielder in Monaco having led them into relegation dogfight last season.

Ligue 1 table before Fabregas vs after Fabregas - from 2nd place to 17th place. No wonder they have given him seatbelt on the bench. The excuses after he downgrade teams is becoming too much.

Downgrade Chelsea yet we won the FA cup.

Let us see matic's number at United if he was not carried along .

Ibime:


Yet Conte had the same Hazard in 2018, the Hazard he was able to accommodate on the wings when Matic and Kante was enough to anchor the midfield.

Enter Fabregas and he is forced to field 3 midfielders to protect the escort and we go from 93 points to 70

Hazard and Costa were enough to make the formation work.

Hazard will beat 5 men on his way to goal, and Costa would beat up anybody left.

Conte could afford to park the bus, and let those 2 in particular run riot there.

Morata in particular, individually cost us at least 11 points, if the fool had done his job, we could have finished second!

nihilistjnr:


Forced?

Isnt 352 Conte's default formation everywhere else except for Chelsea? He played that formation at Juve(with a legless Pirlo for that matter). Played it at Italy. Plays it today at Inter.

It was the brilliance of Hazard that forced Conte to swap to a 343 to accomodate the best winger in the league at the time. And it was the utter incompetence of the useless striker we had in Morata that didnt allow his normal formation to work.

I recall, Conte's preseason plan was clear... Converting to a 3-5-2
Fabregas was performing well already and adjusting to his requirements, all the board had to do was get VVD or Bonucci
(Get Alex Sandro or Perisic or that inter RM) and then get Lukaku, then we play
Courtios; Cesar, VVD, Cahill; Moses, Fab, Matic, Kante, Alonso: Hazard, Lukaku

But instead we ended up with Christensen, Rudiger, Emerson, Zappacosta. And even sold Matic and bought Drinkwater to replace him. Who ever was incharge of our transfer really screwed us up.

It showed, when Conte kept changing formation and personnel that the Tmartkt really fvcked his plan up to the point.

Lukaku would have benefitted from the passes from Fabregas

popizaino:



Show us Torres missing from lampard's ball.

That shouldn't be hard for you

Save your stüpidity for someone else. Any Chelsea fan that still insist Torres problem is not of his own making is not to be taken seriously. Nobody will go looking for videos from 9 years ago to prove anything to you especially as Mata was our AM during Torres time. So if you have time to go fish out Torres videos from 9 years ago to argue against Mata, knock yourself out.

Who is the Morata or Torres in Monaco that made them useless?

Ibime:


Yet Conte had the same Hazard in 2018, the Hazard he was able to accommodate on the wings when Matic and Kante was enough to anchor the midfield.

Enter Fabregas and he is forced to field 3 midfielders to protect the escort and we go from 93 points to 70

you want to blame Fabregas for the kind of defense we had.

Christensen suddenly forgot how to defend, Cahill even lost more pace. Rudiger tried sef. Did Kante's running about help us, Matic's was even slower than Fabregas. The whole team was breaking down systematically

Greatihex:
Just that I'm not in the mood to start digging for stats that season, but one thing I know and sure of is that we lost and drew many of our matches from winning positions.

When you are 1-0 up and your strikers begin to miss begging chances up and down and your opponent find a way to net on in the game do you blame the midfielders and defenders and overlook the striker for their misses?


Even Liverpool with all their effective midfielders and defenders do concede but they make us for it by outscoring their opponent.

Tell your strikers to learn how to score anyhow.That's how fan of big team thinks. They don't look to score a single goal and sit on it.

BlueAngel444:
you want to blame Fabregas for the kind of defense we had.

Christensen suddenly forgot how to defend, Cahill even lost more pace. Rudiger tried sef. Did Kante's running about help us, Matic's was even slower than Fabregas. The whole team was breaking down systematically

Christense was statistically the most error prone defender in the EPL that season, with 4 clear mistakes.

popizaino:



Show us Torres missing from lampard's ball.

That shouldn't be hard for you

Torres frustrated Mata, and still frustrated Hazard and every attacking player Chelsea had.

Torres wasted long balls, through balls. The first complain was no one was playing the ball into space for Torres to run but even when it happen he wasted it.

nihilistjnr:


Hazard and Costa were enough to make the formation work.

Hazard will beat 5 men on his way to goal, and Costa would beat up anybody left.

Conte could afford to park the bus, and let those 2 in particular run riot there.

Morata in particular, individually cost us at least 11 points, if the fool had done his job, we could have finished second!

We won the league handsomely using 3-4-3. That is what we know worked. We are not interested in any pie in the sky idea of 3-5-2. Conte could have also played 3-5-2 in 2016/17 but used 3-4-3 which worked for him tremendously.

The only reason to change that 3-4-3 to 3-5-2 is because neither Fabregas nor Bakayoko could do the job Matic was doing, simple.

All this is long shalaye after the fact that Fabregas could not step into Matic shoes.

We are getting there slowly. At least reasonable people are limiting their argument to Matic Vs Fabregas unlike that mad man earlier trying to compare a bench fodder to a legend. Let us continue the shalaye and excuses and come down from Matic to Youssouf Fofana. We are getting there.

Why is Fabregas hugging bench for Youssouf Fofana in Monaco and who is the Morata in Monaco that we can use to absolve Fabregas?

Ibime:


Who said Chalobah is the only midfield option?

What of Ake?

So Chelsea can't sign another midfielder to take the space Mikel is blocking?

So despite African age which you have as reason for even useless teams like Burnley not picking up Mikel, you want Mikel to stay in Chelsea with his African age?

Thank God Conte would not listen to a fantasists like you and jettisoned Mikel on the way to 93 points.

Bakayoko,morata all left Chelsea and are in other big teams that should put your assertion to shame.

Ibime:


We won the league handsomely using 3-4-3. That is what we know worked. We are not interested in any pie in the sky idea of 3-5-2. Conte could have also played 3-5-2 in 2016/17 but used 3-4-3 which worked for him tremendously.

You said he was forced to use 352.

I'm simply advising you that 352 is his standard formation that he plays in all his teams. With a player like Costa, Conte could afford to try a different formation.

As soon as Costa left, Conte simply defaulted to his standard formation and was promptly let down by a pussi nigga wearing number 9.

That's facts. No shalaye necessary

Ibime:


Yet Conte had the same Hazard in 2018, the Hazard he was able to accommodate on the wings when Matic and Kante was enough to anchor the midfield.

Enter Fabregas and he is forced to field 3 midfielders to protect the escort and we go from 93 points to 70

Yes exactly the same way your Lord lampard took us from UCL winner to Europa league without drogba .

nihilistjnr:


You said he was forced to use 352.

I'm simply advising you that 352 is his standard formation that he plays in all his teams. With a player like Costa, Conte could afford to try a different formation.

As soon as Costa left, Conte simply defaulted to his standard formation and was promptly let down by a pussi nigga wearing number 9.

That's facts. No shalaye necessary

You are contradicting yourself now.

Let me remind you. You said 3-5-2 didn't work because Morata can't play it. So why would Conte force Morata to play 3-5-2? Simply because he doesn't have the midfield to play 3-4-3

Why did Conte not force Costa to play 3-5-2? We know Costa can play it. Simply because he had the midfield to play 3-4-3.

So again, it boils down to - Fabregas was not able to step in Matic shoes in the 3-4-3.

popizaino:



Yes exactly the same way your Lord lampard took us from UCL winner to Europa league without drogba .

When was that?

popizaino:



Bakayoko,morata all left Chelsea and are in other big teams that should put your assertion to shame.

More shame on Mikel and Fabregas that Bakayoko and Morata are more useful than them.

The simple truth is, poor player recruitment fvcks a team up. Emenalo really didn't do a great job at Chelsea, from Chelsea signing of Torres in 2011 to Emenalo signing of Morata in 2017, Emenalo really screwed the team up, apart from helping buy quality youths, his buys didn't help the senior squad or team. For those years Chelsea didn't sign one quality CB nor defensive options. This wrecked both Mourinho and Conte's team.

It's always good to have both manager and TD on the same page. Not having a TD that doesn't like Mourinho or had issues with Conte and didn't want defensive managers and it affected requirements.

Just look at us getting Mendy, at a time some wanted Onana. It was also Cech that brought the proposal of Thiago to Lampard.


Nothing wrecks a club like poor team recruitment.

thorrvik55:

U guys should rest already.. With VVD at the back Liverpool won the league and Champions league, let's see how far they go this season without him.. It's still to early for all this

With VVD without Allison, they lost the CL finals and could not win the league and conceded 7 goals in a game. I cant recall the last time Liverpool conceded 7 goals

We will see the next time they will concede 7 goals

lateefGRDT:
what about his goals and assists?

At the world cup? 40 shots 0 goals

Abi which goals again? How many goals can you see in 0 world cup goals

Ibime:


When was that?

2012/2013

hensben:
In that 2010 wc triumph xabi Alonso was the one doing the dirty job in DM, he was the one throwing those long passes from DM, Bousquet was just there to play short passes to either xavi or iniesta due to that Barca system. We have puyol, Sergio Ramos, Casillas, xabi Alonso, xavi, iniesta, David villa and Silva who ran the show for Spain. Little wonder with all those success Bousquet has never been nominated by either Uefa or fifa for anything.

Nonsense. Busquets team was dominating CL in that time and what was Alonsos team doing in that time?

I even see Iniesta who has been called unproductive among those running the show?

popizaino:



2012/2013

You mean the same UCL campaign that Lampard was injured for, the one Mikel escorted throughout and apologised for?

hensben:
The signing of VVD and Alison brought that X factor to Liverpool backline, this is why every football lovers rates him so high, including football organization and pundits. Now that there is stability it is safe to play anyone in his position and still get CS, but on the other hand they can still be whooped in his absent and also when he is present, it’s football so anything can happen

Na X factor dey play ball? Abi by X factor means pointing upandan? The mystery of VVD pointing and leadership has been put to shame now as Liverpool kept winning despite him being away, If VVD was on the bench alone we would have heard that it was his shadow making them to keep clean sheets

Ibime:


More shame on Mikel and Fabregas that Bakayoko and Morata are more useful than them.

The real Shame is to your Lord lampard who could break fabregas record assists despite playing more matches than fabregas.

BlueAngel444:
The simple truth is, poor player recruitment fvcks a team up. Emenalo really didn't do a great job at Chelsea, from Chelsea signing of Torres in 2011 to Emenalo signing of Morata in 2017, Emenalo really screwed the team up, apart from helping buy quality youths, his buys didn't help the senior squad or team. For those years Chelsea didn't sign one quality CB nor defensive options. This wrecked both Mourinho and Conte's team.

It's always good to have both manager and TD on the same page. Not having a TD that doesn't like Mourinho or had issues with Conte and didn't want defensive managers and it affected requirements.

Just look at us getting Mendy, at a time some wanted Onana. It was also Cech that brought the proposal of Thiago to Lampard.


Nothing wrecks a club like poor team recruitment.

This is largely correct but the two main changes in our first team between both years was Matic and Costa for Fabregas and Morata, so we can book the difference down to those two.

We know the Matic sale was one that angered Conte to the point he held a press conference on it.

swiz123:
The thing airmark sometimes fail to understand is that, Liverpool's excellent defensive record isn't just because of their defenders. Liverpool's press is often too difficult to by pass, thereby making it difficult for opponents to create reasonable chances to trouble the defence. That explains why Fabinho seamlessly slot into VVD's role, and bench warmer Matip looking like Vidic.

With that said, VVD is a great defender that benefits immensely from the Jurgen Klopp system. Don't give him too much credit than he deserves.

Delete the part in bold and you are saying the truth. 100% truth

popizaino:



The real Shame is to your Lord lampard who could break fabregas record assists despite playing more matches than fabregas.

Go and tell that to Youssouf Fofana who is benching Fabregas in Monaco

raumdeuter:


Nonsense. Busquets team was dominating CL in that time and what was Alonsos team doing in that time?

I even see Iniesta who has been called unproductive among those running the show?

Iniesta is one of my best player ever. I’m not the one who had iniesta conversation with you.

kendrick9:
might do well to watch the game rather than relying on whoscored.
If u did u would have seen that klopp has tweaked the system, the high line has dropped a bit deeper...Fabinho and matip aren't quick neither are Philips or Williams so klopp has had to adjust the system.

Bollocks. Liverpool and Klopp has shown that VVD is just another defender and without him, the team will move ahead without him and win games

VVD benefitted from Liverpool and Klopp, he should thank Klopp for his fame.

timbros:


Good analysis.

You see that your second paragraph? Na there the koko finish.

But what I find amusing is, if VVD is praised so much like this for being "a system player", why is Busquet, Jorginho and others who benefitted from "systems" maligned so much? Double standards if you ask me.

Na bias cause am. The same mighty VVD wey Matip, Fabinho even the new player from a division 2 side that has never played EPL football before can replace easily and the team no feel am

VVD dey na 7 goals he dey chop from Ollie Watkins and friends

Ibime:



You are contradicting yourself now.

Let me remind you. You said 3-5-2 didn't work because Morata can't play it. So why would Conte force Morata to play 3-5-2? Simply because he doesn't have the midfield to play 3-4-3

Why did Conte not force Costa to play 3-5-2? We know Costa can play it. Simply because he had the midfield to play 3-4-3.

So again, it boils down to - Fabregas was not able to step in Matic shoes in the 3-4-3.

343 was an anomaly. Costa could play it because he could hold up defenders with his strong physical play.

Morata with his spineless display could not play it.

Conte had to revert to his default formation to try and accomodate Morata, and he failed too