Here is a short history of the Bible.

1. Old Testament

The Old Testament was written by Moses, David and Solomon, prophets, seers and kings. There was no "church" of any kind to claim responsibility for it. God inspired individuals to bring God's word to the people. The Old Testament is the recorded revelation of God up until about 400 BC.

2. The Inter-Testamental Period

The time between about 400 BC and about 5 BC is usually called the Years of Prophetic Silence. This is because God created a process that lasted 400 years to create a world climate ready for the coming of the promised Messiah. There was no "church" at this time, either. But there was the new creation of the "synagogue," since the Jewish people needed to worship God and did not have the Temple when they were in exile. When many came back 400-500 BC, they already had functional synagogues; and even though the Temple was being rebuilt by those returning from exile, the synagogue idea remained and more were built. This was the beginning of the "congregation" or "church" as we have it today.

But there was no Scripture being written during this period. That was yet to come after one came "in the spirit and power of Elias" (Luke 1:17).

3. The Time of Christ

It is likely that Matthew (Levi) the tax collector and later disciple of Jesus took notes of what happened during Jesus' ministry. However, it is also true that were God in the flesh living among you, His words would burn into your soul. I am sure, as the apostles clearly recollected as they wrote the New Testament (2 Peter 1:16-21; 1 John 1:1-3; 4:14), they could not escape the image and words of Jesus Christ, God the Son and Son of God, when He spoke into their hearts (Luke 9:44; 24:32).

But it wasn't a "church" that made them write.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



And

2 Peter 1:19-21
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.



God the Holy Spirit inspired them, perfectly and accurately, to write the words of God for the church. The church did not "inspire" anything.

4. The Church Age

When the apostles wrote their letters, the congregations received them. They read them. They spread them. They copied them for other brethren in Christ Jesus. And they recognized their authority in the Christian's life. So the Scriptures were produced by men of God, not by "the church." But they were produced FOR the church.

The last book of the Bible was Revelation, written about 96 AD, just before the apostle John died around 100 AD. After the apostles died, the churches continued to collect the letters they did not have, to read them and understand the authority under God by which they wrote.

But no one else shared that place. There is an "epistle of Barnabas" (which bears no proof it was written by Barnabas), which many think was penned in the first century. But the difference between its message of salvation and of the apostolic writings is too easy to see. If you believe the Scriptures, you cannot believe the so-called "epistle of Barnabas."

There are the writings of Polycarp, disciple of John (when John was very aged). There are writings of Clement and others. But those are all writings of Christians. Just Christians. Some were even martyrs, but their writings depended on the Scriptures--they were not Scripture themselves. Anyone who would base their faith on them would have a horrid foundation, just as if there were "Lutherans" today, learning of God's word only what they find in Martin Luther's writings. Interesting writing, at times "inspirational" writing, fine. Inspired? Not a chance.

The Roman Catholic church has had only one aim from its earliest, pagan and political origins: To destroy the true Christians, and to destroy their Bible. That is why they substituted the corrupt Alexandrian perversions of scripture, instead of using the preserved, prophetic and apostolic Words of God as found in Antioch of Syria, where "the disciples were first called Christians" (Acts 11:26). That is why they also added the Alexandrian writings we now call "Apocrypha" to their perverted bibles. That is why they used their Jesuits to infiltrate the Protestant Seminaries, Colleges and Bible Schools. Their Jesuits became the "teachers" and planted seeds of doubt in the Christians' minds. These doubt-ridden Christians then taught at other colleges and schools. All the while they planted that same seed of doubt of God's word in their students.

The stage was set: Once people no longer believed in God's Preserved Words, which we find perfectly presented in the King James Bible, they were ripe for destruction. Now, 120 years after the switch from God's Word to devil's lies (the King James abandoned for the Alexandrian texts), while pretending to "improve" our copies of God's words, they really set up the abandonment of God's words. Now almost every Bible in the English-speaking world (and most other languages) is just another re-translation of the Alexandrian polluted stream.

Another way to view it is that the Scriptures as we find them preserved in the King James is like God's fountain ...

Jeremiah 2:13
13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.



And that's the point: The bible spewed out by the Catholic church, which now almost all Protestants and other Christians use, ... simply doesn't hold water.

Anyigala: To be truly a “bible church” (notice no one ever says "food restaurant", "book library", "exercise gymnasium", or "car highway"!), the church would have to adhere to everything that is in the New Testament. Accordingly, here is a checklist of things that are in the New Testament that all bible churches should answer yes to:

1. Does the church have ministers who can forgive sins in the name of Jesus (John 20:21-23)?
2. Does the church have a healing rite for the dying that forgives the sins of the person who is dying (James 5:14-15)?
3. Does the church meet daily for the breaking of the bread ( Matthew 6:11, Acts 2:42-46)?
4. Does the church teach that you must physically eat the flesh of Jesus and drink His blood to have life in you (John 6:53)?
5. Does the church history date back to the time of the Apostles (Acts 1:20-26)?
6. Does the church teach that individuals can suffer for the sake of the church, because Christ’s sufferings were lacking (Colossians 1:24)?
7. Does the church teach that salvation isn't a sure thing (Matthew 10:22, 2 Peter 2:20)?
8. Does the church teach that prayers in heaven go through heavenly intercessors before reaching God (Revelation 5:8, Revelation 8:3)?
9. Does the church teach that saints in heaven are alive and can appear to humans? (Mark 9:4-5, Matthew 27:52-53)
10. Does the church teach that one must physically suffer to keep from losing one’s salvation (1 Corinthians 9:27, 1 Peter 2:19-21)?
11. Does the Church preach Christian unity, or division (1 Corinthians 1:10-13)?
12. Are the church's decisions ratified in heaven as well as on earth (Matthew 18:18)?
13. Is the Mother of Jesus considered to be the most blessed Woman, and do they call her blessed (Luke 1:42-48)?
14. Does the church teach that the church itself (rather than the Bible) is the pillar and bulwark of truth? (1 Timothy 3:15)
16. Does the Church teach that celibacy is a good thing? (Matthew 9:12, Luke 18:29-30, 1 Corinthians 7: 25-27, 1 Corinthians 7:32-38, Revelation 14:3-5).
17. Does the Church teach that life begins at conception? (Deuteronomy 30:19, Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13, Luke 1:43-44,Luke 23: 2).
18. Does the Church teach that contraception is intrinsically evil? (Genesis 1:28, Psalm 127:3-5, Genesis 38:8-10).
19. Does the Church teach that divorce and remarriage is adulterous? (Matthew 5:3, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18)
20. Does the Church teach that good works are a very necessary component of our faith? (Matthew 25:31-46, James 2:26, Colossians 1:10, Matthew 7:21, Revelation 20:12-13, Romans 2:6.
21. Does the Church teach that Jesus Christ established his earthly Kingdom on earth before He was crucified? (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 16:19).
22. Does the Church teach sexual sins are transgressions that will keep one from gaining entry into heaven, or do they now say that they are no longer sinful? (Romans 1:24-32, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Ephesians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5).


If the answer to any of these questions is no, then it must be assumed that the so-called “bible church” is really a tradition of man, and is not in accord with EVERYTHING in the New Testament. The Church can’t just preach John 3:16 (although that is a great verse) and ignore the rest of the divinely inspired Word of God. God gave us the whole bible for a reason. To ignore the hard parts because they are difficult to follow is totally wrong.

And by the way, the only Church that adheres to all of the above questions is The Church started by Jesus Christ Himself (Matthew 16:18), the Holy Catholic Church, the only real "Bible Church"!

You know absolutely nothing about the faith you profess. Try and search out the history of your "catholic church" and maybe you just might know what to say and where you belong.

Anyigala: To be truly a “bible church” (notice no one ever says "food restaurant", "book library", "exercise gymnasium", or "car highway"!), the church would have to adhere to everything that is in the New Testament. Accordingly, here is a checklist of things that are in the New Testament that all bible churches should answer yes to:

1. Does the church have ministers who can forgive sins in the name of Jesus (John 20:21-23)?
2. Does the church have a healing rite for the dying that forgives the sins of the person who is dying (James 5:14-15)?
3. Does the church meet daily for the breaking of the bread ( Matthew 6:11, Acts 2:42-46)?
4. Does the church teach that you must physically eat the flesh of Jesus and drink His blood to have life in you (John 6:53)?
5. Does the church history date back to the time of the Apostles (Acts 1:20-26)?
6. Does the church teach that individuals can suffer for the sake of the church, because Christ’s sufferings were lacking (Colossians 1:24)?
7. Does the church teach that salvation isn't a sure thing (Matthew 10:22, 2 Peter 2:20)?
8. Does the church teach that prayers in heaven go through heavenly intercessors before reaching God (Revelation 5:8, Revelation 8:3)?
9. Does the church teach that saints in heaven are alive and can appear to humans? (Mark 9:4-5, Matthew 27:52-53)
10. Does the church teach that one must physically suffer to keep from losing one’s salvation (1 Corinthians 9:27, 1 Peter 2:19-21)?
11. Does the Church preach Christian unity, or division (1 Corinthians 1:10-13)?
12. Are the church's decisions ratified in heaven as well as on earth (Matthew 18:18)?
13. Is the Mother of Jesus considered to be the most blessed Woman, and do they call her blessed (Luke 1:42-48)?
14. Does the church teach that the church itself (rather than the Bible) is the pillar and bulwark of truth? (1 Timothy 3:15)
16. Does the Church teach that celibacy is a good thing? (Matthew 9:12, Luke 18:29-30, 1 Corinthians 7: 25-27, 1 Corinthians 7:32-38, Revelation 14:3-5).
17. Does the Church teach that life begins at conception? (Deuteronomy 30:19, Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13, Luke 1:43-44,Luke 23: 2).
18. Does the Church teach that contraception is intrinsically evil? (Genesis 1:28, Psalm 127:3-5, Genesis 38:8-10).
19. Does the Church teach that divorce and remarriage is adulterous? (Matthew 5:3, Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18)
20. Does the Church teach that good works are a very necessary component of our faith? (Matthew 25:31-46, James 2:26, Colossians 1:10, Matthew 7:21, Revelation 20:12-13, Romans 2:6.
21. Does the Church teach that Jesus Christ established his earthly Kingdom on earth before He was crucified? (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 16:19).
22. Does the Church teach sexual sins are transgressions that will keep one from gaining entry into heaven, or do they now say that they are no longer sinful? (Romans 1:24-32, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Ephesians 5:19-21, Colossians 3:5).


If the answer to any of these questions is no, then it must be assumed that the so-called “bible church” is really a tradition of man, and is not in accord with EVERYTHING in the New Testament. The Church can’t just preach John 3:16 (although that is a great verse) and ignore the rest of the divinely inspired Word of God. God gave us the whole bible for a reason. To ignore the hard parts because they are difficult to follow is totally wrong.

And by the way, the only Church that adheres to all of the above questions is The Church started by Jesus Christ Himself (Matthew 16:18), the Holy Catholic Church, the only real "Bible Church"!

Have you heard of the Harlot church that rides the beast ?

" Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. The name written on her forehead was a mystery: Babylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus." - R[b]evelation 17 : 3-6[/b]

@poster i dnt know wht u intend to achieve wit dis post? Wht u should b concerned wit is making sure u make heaven criticism and trying to understand y some churches do wht dey do wont open d door of heaven so i will advice all of u claiming to know d bible to make sure it will lead u to christ on dat day, the most important is do d right thing. Thank you.

Dee mic: @poster i dnt know wht u intend to achieve wit dis post? Wht u should b concerned wit is making sure u make heaven criticism and trying to understand y some churches do wht dey do wont open d door of heaven so i will advice all of u claiming to know d bible to make sure it will lead u to christ on dat day, the most important is do d right thing. Thank you.

And what to you is the right thing. Isnt the right thing telling the truth? isnt the right thing saving your brother or sister who is lost? isnt the right thing opening the eyes of the blind [both physical and spiritual]? Please i pray you kindly tell me what is your idea of "do the right thing" Or perhaps your idea of doing the right thing is for everyone to do what he or she feels is right and not what God says is right.

I don't see any reason why a sane/able man will confess his sin to a man like him.
God forbid.Only God I have case with.

May God forgive us all our sins.

Do you know what the priests do after hearing your confession? He will advise you not to sin again, council you pray for you and asks you to pray to God for forgivness of your sin only after you have prayed for forgivness is your sins forgiven. This is the same thing you guy do when you commit sin. If you walk up to a priest and tell him u stole something he will tell you to return it and then pray for you. If you fail to return it your sin are not forgiven. Just as all u penticostal churches walk up to ur pastor and ask for prayer, so also catholics ask their priests for prayers. Stop this trend because it is a sin to judge other. God says you should leave the Judgment for him......................

Catholic or non catholics, religion is not a password to heaven. If ur own knowledge of christianity contradicts the teachings of the holy bible in any form, u need genuine salvation from God thru Christ Jesus. 1cor. 3:11 says: "for other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
John 14:6 says: "Jesus saith unto him, i am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh to the father except by me." pls don't be deceived by cleverly woven lies, the words of the bible were inspired and preserved by God. It is the only reliable source of sound doctrines. May God open our spiritual eyes.

"Have you heard of the Harlot church that rides the beast ?"

" Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. The name written on her forehead was a mystery: Babylon the great the mother of LovePeddlers and of the abominations of the earth. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus." - Revelation 17 : 3-6"

Well, you didn't answer any of the questions i asked instead you quote Revelation to me, the same Revelation Martin Lurther wanted to throw out from his version of The New Testament.
Back to your question, Yes i know so much about my Catholic faith and i like to have a cordial face to face and civilised debate about my Catholic faith. Since that will not be possible, let me do it here. It would have been nice if you had quoted the whole passage. The passage you just quoted dosen't make any sense but i have an idea where you are trying to go with it. If you have time read on..
“And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her I marvelled greatly. But the angel said to me, "Why marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition; and the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to perdition. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind and give over their power and authority to the beast; they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful." And he said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the harlot is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and giving over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth."
If you look at the very last line (verse 17) above, you will see that the LovePeddler of Babylon is a “great city that has dominion over the Kings of the earth”. Now we all have to ask ourselves if the Vatican has any dominion over any Kings of the earth today. Well there aren’t that many Kings around anymore, for one thing, and even if you transpose the word “president” for “king”, it’s laughable to say that the Vatican has dominion over any president or ruler of a country today, with all of the legalized abortion, contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc., that is going on in most countries today. And in countries that do have Kings, like Saudi Arabia, certainly the Vatican has zero dominion over Muslim countries.
So which city is John talking about anyway? The 7 mountains that the LovePeddler sits on with the 7 Kings gives us a clue. The Vatican does not sit on one of the 7 hills of Rome, which are Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, and Viminal Hill. Vatican Hill sits across the Tiber River from ancient Rome, and was a crucifixion site (where Peter was crucified upside down). It was not made part of the city of Rome until the 9th Century, well after John wrote the book of Revelation. And since we know that 5 of the 7 kings have already fallen in John’s time, and the other 2 must remain “a little while”, the city had to exist in John’s time, 1rst Century AD. This is all confirmed by Revelation 1:1, which says:
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, "
“Soon” would NOT be 8 centuries later, for sure.
So this means that the LovePeddler of Babylon is a great city that had to have existed in the first century. Which city might that be? Revelation 11:8 gives us the answer:
“and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.”
Jerusalem, the great city where Jesus was crucified, seems to be the great city, or the LovePeddler of Babylon! But wait a minute – Isn’t Jerusalem the Holy City? How in the world could anyone say that Jerusalem is the LovePeddler of Babylon? For the record, Jerusalem also sits on 7 hills, namely, Scopus, Nob, Mount of Corruption, Old Mount Zion, Ophel, Rock, and New Mount Zion. And at the time of John, Jerusalem did have a lot of power over many Kings of the earth (because Jerusalem was the center of worship of God), as well as being a center of commerce.
Well, let’s look elsewhere in the bible, and in the words of our protestant brothers and sisters, we will let scripture interpret scripture. For example, in Isaiah 1, God is castigating Israel for its many sins, even referring to Israel as Sodom and Gomorrah in Isaiah 1:10:
Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
In Revelation 11:8 above, we learned that the LovePeddler is allegorically called SODOM! And in Isaiah 1:21 below, God calls Jerusalem a harlot, which is another word for LovePeddler:
“How the faithful city has become a harlot, she that was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers.”
Israel is also called a harlot in Jeremiah 3:6:
“The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: "Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the harlot?”
Ezekiel 16:2 says that Jerusalem has abominations:
“Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations, “
And these abominations are described by God as harlotries in Ezekiel 16:26-30:
“You also played the harlot with the Egyptians, your lustful neighbors, multiplying your harlotry, to provoke me to anger. Behold, therefore, I stretched out my hand against you, and diminished your allotted portion, and delivered you to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were ashamed of your lewd behavior. You played the harlot also with the Assyrians, because you were insatiable; yea, you played the harlot with them, and still you were not satisfied. You multiplied your harlotry also with the trading land of Chaldea; and even with this you were not satisfied. "How lovesick is your heart, says the Lord GOD, seeing you did all these things, the deeds of a brazen harlot;”
It would seem that God is describing Jerusalem as a harlot because He considered Jerusalem to be one with Him, as a man marries a bride. But Jerusalem and its people always seemed to going after pagan wives, worshipping false idols like the golden calf, and generally not being true to the covenant God had established with them during the time of Moses. And now, in John’s time, the leaders of Jerusalem were teaming up with pagan Rome to not only kill the apostles and prophets, but also the Messiah Himself.
Jesus Himself condemns Jerusalem in Matthew 23:29-38:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, saying, `If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.

You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.

Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate."
Here we see Jesus foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem by pagan Rome in 70 AD. Why? Because they killed the prophets and stoned the ones sent to them. This should sound familiar, because in Revelation 18:20, 24 we heard that
"Rejoice over her, O heaven, O saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!"
"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."
So here we see in Revelation that the LovePeddler of Babylon killed apostles and prophets. Apostles were those that had actually been with Jesus, and prophets only existed up until the first century, way before the Vatican was established. One trap that some fundamentalists fall into is their sincere mistaken belief that the Catholic Church wasn't started until Constantine came along in the 4th Century. While that isn't true (we have the writings from the early Church Fathers that confirm that the Catholic Church began with Peter's commissioning), the question has to be asked then how can the LovePeddler of Babylon be the Catholic Church, because the LovePeddler had to be around in the first century when the last prophet was killed. So Jesus and Revelation agree that Jerusalem has killed the ones sent to it, and Jesus predicts the coming destruction of Jerusalem in this generation, which happened about 40 years later, in 70 AD.
And who destroyed the LovePeddler of Babylon? Babylon did, which was pagan Rome. Babylon is a code name for Rome, which symbolized sexual and immoral excess. Revelation 17:16 says that the ten horns (symbolizing the rulers of pagan Rome) will destroy the LovePeddler by fire, which is exactly what the Romans did to Jerusalem in 70 AD. And then Revelation 17:14 says that the Lamb will conquer them both. This happened in the 4th Century, when Constantine became the first Christian emperor of Rome, who stopped all of the religious persecutions of Christians with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD. Constantine built the Vatican directly on top of the tomb of St. Peter, on Vatican Hill, outside the city of Rome.
And so what or who is 666? In numerology, each letter is assigned a value. In Greek, the name Caesar Nero, the emperor alive at the time Revelation was written, adds up to 666. Nero killed his own brother and mother, and was generally known as the most decadent of all the emperors of Rome. John was trying to tell the Christians alive at the time that Jesus would eventually triumph over wicked Jerusalem and pagan Rome. The stubborn Jews of that day, like the murderous Saul, were turning in Christians to the Roman authorities to be tortured and murdered. Thankfully, on his way to Damascus, Saul saw the light of Christ and became the saintly Paul. But there was a price to be paid, as Nero not only killed Peter for preaching the Truth, but also Paul, who died by being beheaded (he was a Roman citizen, and therefore escaped crucifixion).
And for the record, the word Antichrist appears nowhere in the book of Revelation ! St. John does describe who the antichrist is in 1 John 2 - An antichrist is someone who denies that Jesus is the Messiah.

Anyigala: "Have you heard of the Harlot church that rides the beast ?"

" Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. The name written on her forehead was a mystery: Babylon the great the mother of LovePeddlers and of the abominations of the earth. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus." - Revelation 17 : 3-6"

Well, you didn't answer any of the questions i asked instead you quote Revelation to me, the same Revelation Martin Lurther wanted to throw out from his version of The New Testament.
Back to your question, Yes i know so much about my Catholic faith and i like to have a cordial face to face and civilised debate about my Catholic faith. Since that will not be possible, let me do it here. It would have been nice if you had quoted the whole passage. The passage you just quoted dosen't make any sense but i have an idea where you are trying to go with it. If you have time read on..
“And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her I marvelled greatly. But the angel said to me, "Why marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition; and the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to perdition. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind and give over their power and authority to the beast; they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful." And he said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the harlot is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and giving over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth."
If you look at the very last line (verse 17) above, you will see that the LovePeddler of Babylon is a “great city that has dominion over the Kings of the earth”. Now we all have to ask ourselves if the Vatican has any dominion over any Kings of the earth today. Well there aren’t that many Kings around anymore, for one thing, and even if you transpose the word “president” for “king”, it’s laughable to say that the Vatican has dominion over any president or ruler of a country today, with all of the legalized abortion, contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc., that is going on in most countries today. And in countries that do have Kings, like Saudi Arabia, certainly the Vatican has zero dominion over Muslim countries.
So which city is John talking about anyway? The 7 mountains that the LovePeddler sits on with the 7 Kings gives us a clue. The Vatican does not sit on one of the 7 hills of Rome, which are Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, and Viminal Hill. Vatican Hill sits across the Tiber River from ancient Rome, and was a crucifixion site (where Peter was crucified upside down). It was not made part of the city of Rome until the 9th Century, well after John wrote the book of Revelation. And since we know that 5 of the 7 kings have already fallen in John’s time, and the other 2 must remain “a little while”, the city had to exist in John’s time, 1rst Century AD. This is all confirmed by Revelation 1:1, which says:
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, "
“Soon” would NOT be 8 centuries later, for sure.
So this means that the LovePeddler of Babylon is a great city that had to have existed in the first century. Which city might that be? Revelation 11:8 gives us the answer:
“and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.”
Jerusalem, the great city where Jesus was crucified, seems to be the great city, or the LovePeddler of Babylon! But wait a minute – Isn’t Jerusalem the Holy City? How in the world could anyone say that Jerusalem is the LovePeddler of Babylon? For the record, Jerusalem also sits on 7 hills, namely, Scopus, Nob, Mount of Corruption, Old Mount Zion, Ophel, Rock, and New Mount Zion. And at the time of John, Jerusalem did have a lot of power over many Kings of the earth (because Jerusalem was the center of worship of God), as well as being a center of commerce.
Well, let’s look elsewhere in the bible, and in the words of our protestant brothers and sisters, we will let scripture interpret scripture. For example, in Isaiah 1, God is castigating Israel for its many sins, even referring to Israel as Sodom and Gomorrah in Isaiah 1:10:
Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
In Revelation 11:8 above, we learned that the LovePeddler is allegorically called SODOM! And in Isaiah 1:21 below, God calls Jerusalem a harlot, which is another word for LovePeddler:
“How the faithful city has become a harlot, she that was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers.”
Israel is also called a harlot in Jeremiah 3:6:
“The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: "Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the harlot?”
Ezekiel 16:2 says that Jerusalem has abominations:
“Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations, “
And these abominations are described by God as harlotries in Ezekiel 16:26-30:
“You also played the harlot with the Egyptians, your lustful neighbors, multiplying your harlotry, to provoke me to anger. Behold, therefore, I stretched out my hand against you, and diminished your allotted portion, and delivered you to the greed of your enemies, the daughters of the Philistines, who were ashamed of your lewd behavior. You played the harlot also with the Assyrians, because you were insatiable; yea, you played the harlot with them, and still you were not satisfied. You multiplied your harlotry also with the trading land of Chaldea; and even with this you were not satisfied. "How lovesick is your heart, says the Lord GOD, seeing you did all these things, the deeds of a brazen harlot;”
It would seem that God is describing Jerusalem as a harlot because He considered Jerusalem to be one with Him, as a man marries a bride. But Jerusalem and its people always seemed to going after pagan wives, worshipping false idols like the golden calf, and generally not being true to the covenant God had established with them during the time of Moses. And now, in John’s time, the leaders of Jerusalem were teaming up with pagan Rome to not only kill the apostles and prophets, but also the Messiah Himself.
Jesus Himself condemns Jerusalem in Matthew 23:29-38:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, saying, `If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.

You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.

Truly, I say to you, all this will come upon this generation. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate."
Here we see Jesus foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem by pagan Rome in 70 AD. Why? Because they killed the prophets and stoned the ones sent to them. This should sound familiar, because in Revelation 18:20, 24 we heard that
"Rejoice over her, O heaven, O saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!"
"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth."
So here we see in Revelation that the LovePeddler of Babylon killed apostles and prophets. Apostles were those that had actually been with Jesus, and prophets only existed up until the first century, way before the Vatican was established. One trap that some fundamentalists fall into is their sincere mistaken belief that the Catholic Church wasn't started until Constantine came along in the 4th Century. While that isn't true (we have the writings from the early Church Fathers that confirm that the Catholic Church began with Peter's commissioning), the question has to be asked then how can the LovePeddler of Babylon be the Catholic Church, because the LovePeddler had to be around in the first century when the last prophet was killed. So Jesus and Revelation agree that Jerusalem has killed the ones sent to it, and Jesus predicts the coming destruction of Jerusalem in this generation, which happened about 40 years later, in 70 AD.
And who destroyed the LovePeddler of Babylon? Babylon did, which was pagan Rome. Babylon is a code name for Rome, which symbolized sexual and immoral excess. Revelation 17:16 says that the ten horns (symbolizing the rulers of pagan Rome) will destroy the LovePeddler by fire, which is exactly what the Romans did to Jerusalem in 70 AD. And then Revelation 17:14 says that the Lamb will conquer them both. This happened in the 4th Century, when Constantine became the first Christian emperor of Rome, who stopped all of the religious persecutions of Christians with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD. Constantine built the Vatican directly on top of the tomb of St. Peter, on Vatican Hill, outside the city of Rome.
And so what or who is 666? In numerology, each letter is assigned a value. In Greek, the name Caesar Nero, the emperor alive at the time Revelation was written, adds up to 666. Nero killed his own brother and mother, and was generally known as the most decadent of all the emperors of Rome. John was trying to tell the Christians alive at the time that Jesus would eventually triumph over wicked Jerusalem and pagan Rome. The stubborn Jews of that day, like the murderous Saul, were turning in Christians to the Roman authorities to be tortured and murdered. Thankfully, on his way to Damascus, Saul saw the light of Christ and became the saintly Paul. But there was a price to be paid, as Nero not only killed Peter for preaching the Truth, but also Paul, who died by being beheaded (he was a Roman citizen, and therefore escaped crucifixion).
And for the record, the word Antichrist appears nowhere in the book of Revelation ! St. John does describe who the antichrist is in 1 John 2 - An antichrist is someone who denies that Jesus is the Messiah.

The carnal mind can never comprehend the things of the spirit. i do sincerely wish you and i could have a face to face argument on this matter but alas we can't. You need help. A reprobate mind isnt something i can do anything about. Only God can help you.

@all....except a man b born again,he cannot enter d kingdom of God.na d koko b dis.

John 20: 21-23 says:- 21: jesus said to them, "peace be with you. As the father sent me, so i send you. 22: then he breathed on them and said, "receive the holy spirit. 23: if you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven. Note:- The priest listens to ur confessions and give u a penance to do, it's after doing the penance that u are been forgiven of ur sins. It's the lord that forgive sins and u are only forgiven after u might have said the prayers given to u by the priest as penance. If after going for confession and u did not proceed with ur penance, just know that ur sins have not been forgiven. U have to do ur penance to complete the process of forgiveness here on earth before u will be forgiven in heaven.

ijawkid: Why do they even have priests in d 1st place

Why then did Jesus die if priests will still be needed??

Jesus is now high priest but d catholics still insist they must still have priests.....

I don't blame them........

If Jesus is now almighty God then I think he needs a priest to mediate between man and Him,,,.....................

U r a very big Mumu,,,,Go to hell

They have their own bible(added chapters and verses 2 d main bible) they use chaplet as means of praying,they bow at status of mary and one idol they call "jesus on the cross" the bless water and call it holy water.they c dia preist as God. Abeg is this not a cult? Abeg leave dem alone joor

jenny b: me tink thers no prblm in confessin ur sin to a man weda a priest or anybody as long as both of u will join faith togeda and pray for forgivenes, d bible says we shuld confess our sins one to another, now my problm is d contuinty in dis cofession to d priest cos if u knw u r truely sorry for a particular sin why go bak to it? true confession is repentance and desistance. thers a problem with dis kind of confession.

there is no man that's is not prone to temptation. Truly, true confession is repentance and to desist from doing it again. After the confessions & the penance given to u by the priest, the priest will tell u to go and not to commit the sin again but it's hard for humans to do most of the times b/cos of our flesh which satan always uses to get at us.

i dnt need to argue on this..just gat to do wat u believe and wat the bible says

ijawkid:

Jesus didn't also assume d power to forgive sins or judge people or condemn people.....

He was also given that power from a higher source........

The final point is both d priests and Jesus forgive sins.............

Look up italo's words he quoted from d scriptures.....mayb I can re-quote them....

""John 20:21 - before He grants them
the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says
to the apostles, "as the Father sent
me, so I send you." As Christ was sent
by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ
sends the apostles and their successors
to forgive sins""...

Do u now see what I mean

Its a chain........

I don't like arguing about the gospel but I just want to chip in one or two lines here,I think you got it all wrong when you say Jesus receives power to give sins from a higher source. In the first chapter of Genesis the bible says "Let us create man in our own image and likeness" and the context we have "us" and "our" which shows that there were more than one person in heaven at the time man was created and that brings to the Trinity which in other word mean God the Father,God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holyghost.
Christ also said to the appostles "You see the father when you see me" and that clarifies the issue of the Trinity which shows that Christ have the authority to forgiven sins and can also transfer that authority to the appostles to forgive or retain sins as the case may be.

Dis is y christianity can neva b united.we try so hard 2 bring each oda down 4 no reason. The penticostal churches dnt agree wit them selves,Anglicans re against d Catholics even d white garment churches hate each oda.i can jst imagine hw d Islams re laughing at us. bt it seems dis post is totaly against Catholics and funny tin abt catholic churches is dat u will neva here anytin abt them even wit so much population,they stil cool and quiet,they do their tins alone bt people wil neva stop talkin abt them. Is a pity we decide 2 talk on dis kind of issue wen we have serious problems in Nigeria 2 b address. I wont b a fool 2 talk on dis. MODERATOR, PLEASE DONT BRING ISSUES LIKE DIS IT WILL ONLY DIVIDE D HOUSE

FOREVERGOD3
I still insist that you are reading the bible as a novel,do you realise that is the word of God in human language?Whay early languages were used to write the scriptures?What processes were used in the compilation of the bible?Can you even tell me the language spoken by Jesus in his life and monistry?Get one thing clear,all these play on words,quibles that you are engaging in does not and will never change us catholics,we speak ,preach and talk about what we know.In the area of exegesis I wonder if you can stand me .

Being the first congregation of christians, Catholic church will always be in the eye of the storm no matter what and that is my deduction because others are expecting its teachings to be flawless and i wonder how it is going to be with the bible that support even genocide and all what not

egbenduru: FOREVERGOD3
I still insist that you are reading the bible as a novel,do you realise that is the word of God in human language?Whay early languages were used to write the scriptures?What processes were used in the compilation of the bible?Can you even tell me the language spoken by Jesus in his life and monistry?Get one thing clear,all these play on words,quibles that you are engaging in does not and will never change us catholics,we speak ,preach and talk about what we know.In the area of exegesis I wonder if you can stand me .

Ha! I laugh in tongues!


Jesus being a Nazarene spoke 2 languages Aramaic and Hebrew and FYI if you have ever owned a bible concordance with Greek and Hebrew Lexicon then you would be able to have a discussion with me along biblical lines because actual true words used in their right context are interpreted into modern day english from hebrew or greek or even aramaic so you would understand. The english Language is not even as complete or detailed as the hebrew language as sometimes we struggle to find the right words. For example;

The word FIRM in greek is called "stako" which means stand firm or be steadfast

while in Hebrew FIRM is called "gabar" which actually can have several different meaning depending on the context. The basic meaning is, "be strong" or "prevail", "mighty"


I strongly suggest you go get yourself a proper concordance. I would gladly recommend Strongs Concordance to you.

4evergod3

Question for you......

Why was the apostle paul not married and what was his teachings on marriage.

Translate the following in to yoruba
1)Tunde is my brother
2)Tunde is my cousin.

Dis is wat we kal nonesense,wen christ was ascending 2 heaven wat did he tel his disciples, "all powers on earth nd heaven has bn given 2u,any sin u 4gve has bn 4given" dat power was dn transfrd by d disciples b4 der death 2d priest.so anytn u dnt knw dnt bring up d topic.Dis is wat we kal nonesense,wen christ was ascending 2 heaven wat did he tel his disciples, "all powers on earth nd heaven has bn given 2u,any sin u 4gve has bn 4given" dat power was dn transfrd by d disciples b4 der death 2d priest.so anytn u dnt knw dnt bring up d topic.Dis is wat we kal nonesense,wen christ was ascending 2 heaven wat did he tel his disciples, "all powers on earth nd heaven has bn given 2u,any sin u 4gve has bn 4given" dat power was dn transfrd by d disciples b4 der death 2d priest.so anytn u dnt knw dnt bring up d topic.

Chidave20: Dis is wat we kal nonesense,wen christ was ascending 2 heaven wat did he tel his disciples, "all powers on earth nd heaven has bn given 2u,any sin u 4gve has bn 4given" dat power was dn transfrd by d disciples b4 der death 2d priest.so anytn u dnt knw dnt bring up d topic.Dis is wat we kal nonesense,wen christ was ascending 2 heaven wat did he tel his disciples, "all powers on earth nd heaven has bn given 2u,any sin u 4gve has bn 4given" dat power was dn transfrd by d disciples b4 der death 2d priest.so anytn u dnt knw dnt bring up d topic.Dis is wat we kal nonesense,wen christ was ascending 2 heaven wat did he tel his disciples, "all powers on earth nd heaven has bn given 2u,any sin u 4gve has bn 4given" dat power was dn transfrd by d disciples b4 der death 2d priest.so anytn u dnt knw dnt bring up d topic.

totally out of context and deceptive, read below what Christ said below :

"Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." - Matthew 28:18

All Power is given to Christ not us or his apostles. We can operate in that power by our obedience to his word and by our love for him.

Please do not mislead others !!


Now , you misquoted what Christ said before he ascended. This is what he said :


" He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” - Acts 1 : vs7 & 8

A-ZeD:
4evergod3

Question for you......

Why was the apostle paul not married and what was his teachings on marriage.

Translate the following in to yoruba
1)Tunde is my brother
2)Tunde is my cousin.

I will attempt to answer your question using the scriptures themselves; see below

"Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control. I say this by way of concession, not of command. wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another." (1 Corinthians 7:1-7 )
"But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another"

The apostle Paul (and other key figures among God's people, including Elijah, John the Baptist and Jesus Christ) was not married (some are of the opinion that Paul may have been a widower), but Paul taught neither for, or against, marriage. What Paul taught regarding marriage was a matter of what was best for an individual's righteous life.


"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9 )
Paul was not absolute in his teaching, of The Lord's teaching ("I give charge, not I but the Lord", about separation and divorce, but he did make a distinction between marriage in general ("To the married I give charge" and a marriage that involves a believer and an unbeliever ("if the unbelieving partner desires to separate, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound".

"To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband - and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
To the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is they are holy.

But if the unbelieving partner desires to separate, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. For God has called us to peace. Wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?" (1 Corinthians 7:10-16 )

Paul's primary focus was "let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him." Does that mean that, for example, Paul remained single because he was single when he was called, while Peter was married to a "believing" wife because Peter was married (we know that Peter was married at his calling because Jesus cured Peter's mother-in-law of a fever i.e. Luke 4:38-39) when he was called? Perhaps, but as Paul explains further, his, or Peter's, or anyone else's, circumstances and choices do not apply to everyone. It depends on the calling, the mission.

"Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches." (1 Corinthians 7:17 )
But what did he mean by that?

"Was any one at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was any one at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the Commandments of God.
Every one should remain in the state in which he was called. Were you a slave when called? Never mind. But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity. For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. So, brethren, in whatever state each was called, there let him remain with God.

Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. I think that in view of the present distress it is well for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. But if you marry, you do not sin, and if a girl marries she does not sin. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that." (1 Corinthians 7:18-28 )

Paul's summary? Marry or remain single, not as one state being better than the other, for everyone, but as a matter if whichever makes an individual more productive to their calling in this life. Some are more effective Christians married, while others are more effective Christians single.

"I mean, brethren, the appointed time has grown very short [see Could Christ Return Tonight?]; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the form of this world is passing away.
I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord.

If any one thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry - it is no sin. But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. So that he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better.

A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. But in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I have the Spirit of God." (1 Corinthians 7:29-40 )

[quote author=italo]Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins

John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors to forgive sins.

John 20:22 - the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, whoever acknowledges that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors.

2 Cor. 5:18 - the ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance.

James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess your sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.

U HAVE SAID IT ALL

I just wonder why ppl cant let Catholics practice their faith?? The only church that you see building churches in all hinterlands and even in famine infested countries. You non Catholics should reply with the names of your churches and its pastors or overseers, lets wait another 25yrs see which church is still standing.
THE GATE OF HELL SHALL NEVER PREVAIL AGAINST THEE. Its more than 2000 years now and still counting, your rants are like pouring water on stone. Practice you own and let Catholics practice theirs, is it too much to ask??
Only one church will ever stand till Christ comes, be it this millenuim or next. Guess which church it is.

Ptolomeus:
I I have some difficulty understanding how someone who is the son of God, and is also the "god almighty" dies nailed to a cross, humiliated in every possible way ...
Does not match the concept of the Almighty, with the humiliating way to die that god ...

As for the confession ... I did not confess to a god who dies in this humiliating manner, let alone with a priest to represent him.

It is my opinion.

guy! May God 4give u.

@Piro4rl



Catholicism teaches that it has the power and authority to forgive people's sins. Here are a few quotes from the Catechism. (Please note that whenever the Catechism mentions the "Church," it is referring to the "Roman Catholic church":

"There is no offense, however serious, that the Church cannot forgive."

"By Christ's will, the Church possesses the power to forgive the sins of the baptized..."

"The Church, who through the bishop and his priests forgives sins in the name of Jesus Christ..."

Does the Catholic church have power to forgive sins? Let's see what the Scriptures say:

"Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." Ephesians 4:32

According to Scripture, God wants His children to come straight to Him for forgiveness of sins, not to a church:

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." Hebrews 4:16

This verse loudly proclaims that forgiveness of sins comes from God's throne, not from a church. Still, Catholicism teaches a contrary doctrine:

"Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins 'in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.'

"The Church must be able to forgive all penitents their offenses, even if they should sin until the last moment of their lives."

However, this man-made doctrine contradicts God' s written Word. Many Bible characters freely approached God's throne for forgiveness of sins. The psalmist went straight to God:

"I acknowledged my sin unto thee... I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin..." Psalm 32:5

King David went directly to God to ask forgiveness for his sins:

"Look upon mine affliction and my pain; and forgive all my sins." Psalm 25:18

In Psalm 51, David asks God for forgiveness again:

"Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight..." Psalm 51:2,4

King Solomon was also aware that he and all the children of Israel could go straight to God to receive forgiveness for their sins:

"Hearken therefore unto the supplications of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, which they shall make toward this place: hear thou from thy dwelling place, even from heaven; and when thou hearest, forgive." 2 Chronicles 6:21

God tells people to come to Him for forgiveness:

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14

God never requires anyone to go through a church to receive forgiveness for their sins.

"For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee." Psalm 86:5

"... if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye." Colossians 3:13

Why then would the Catholic church insist that forgiveness of sins is only available through her? The following Catechism quote provides the answer:

" Were there no forgiveness of sins in the Church, there would be no hope of life to come or eternal liberation. Let us thank God who has given his Church such a gift."

Rather than looking to Jesus for forgiveness of sins and eternal life, Roman Catholics are taught that their sins can only be forgiven through the Catholic church. Whether intentional or not, this doctrine keeps people in bondage to the Catholic church.

Conclusion

Once again, God' s Word stands on one side, while the traditions of men stand on the other. God says He alone forgives sins, while Catholic tradition contends that the Catholic church has the power to forgive sins. Which side will you choose?

"Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities..." Psalm 103:2-3

[b]Does Catholicism still teach that it is the one true Church founded by Christ? Many think not, but there is no denying the church's official position:

"This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic." Pg. 214, #811

Referring to the Catholic church, the Catechism pronounces:

"In fact, in this one and only Church of God..." Pg. 216, #817

"First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church." Pg. 220, #830

This "one true church" doctrine can be traced to one verse of Scripture, which, when compared with other Scriptures, is found not to teach this doctrine at all. When Jesus asked his disciples who He was, Peter responded:

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16"

Then Jesus answered Peter:

"... thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18

Catholicism contends that the Lord was referring to Peter as the rock, and has since built the entire Catholic religion upon that premise. But all other pertinent Scriptures declare that Jesus was referring to Himself as the rock, not Peter:

"... for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:4

Jesus is not only the rock, He is the chief cornerstone of the church:

"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" Ephesians 2:20

Back in the Old Testament, it was prophesied that Jesus, whom men rejected, would become the cornerstone of the church:

"The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner." Psalm 118:22

Even Peter, allegedly the first pope, confesses that Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the church:

"...by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth... This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner." Acts 4:10-11

"... the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner," 1 Peter 2:7

According to Scriptures, Peter is NOT the rock:

"For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?" Psalm 18:31

"... I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock..." Deuteronomy 32:3-4

"Truly my soul waiteth upon God... He only is my rock..." Psalm 62:1-2

"But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge." Psalm 94:22

Who is the head of the church

Despite all these Scriptures, Catholicism still claims that Peter was the rock and his successors are the head of the church:

"The sole Church of Christ (is that) which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successors of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him." Pg. 215, #816

But the Bible declares that Jesus Christ, not Peter or his successors, is the head of the church:

"And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he (Christ) might have the preeminence." Colossians 1:18

"And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him (Christ) to be the head over all things to the church," Ephesians 1:22

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Ephesians 4:15

The biblical "church"

When the Bible uses the words "the church," it always refers to all those who trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, not just to members of the Catholic church:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord..." 1 Corinthians 1:2

The Apostle Paul wrote:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" Ephesians 5:25

Paul was not a Catholic, yet he knew that Christ loved him and died for him. Certainly, no one would dare say that Paul was not a Christian because he was not a Catholic.

Would anyone suggest that God only loves Catholics?... or that He only died for Catholics? Such would be the case if the Catholic church was the only church.

Paul also proclaimed:

"And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us..." Ephesians 5:2

Can non-Catholics be Christians?

As the "one true church," Catholicism claims the right to determine who is or is not a Christian:

"All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." Pg 216, #818

In other words, if you have not been baptized into the Catholic church, you are not a Christian. These are not my words, but the words of the official Catholic Catechism.

But according to Scripture, it doesn't matter if the Catholic church has accepted you or not. If your faith is in Jesus Christ alone, then He has already accepted you:

"To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he (Jesus) hath made us accepted in the beloved." Ephesians 1:6

Conclusion

At this point, you must make a few decisions:

Is Peter really the rock? The Catechism says he is, but God's Word says he is not.
Is the Catholic church the one true church? The Catechism says yes, but the Bible says no.
Do you really believe that all non-Catholics will burn in hell?
Once again, the answers to each of these questions will be determined by which you choose to believe... the traditions of men, or God's Word. Jesus asked the Pharisees a question which all Roman Catholics should ponder:

"Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" Matthew 15:3[/b]

For those who are wondering how i could possibly know so much. I give the glory to God as a bible scholar and historian and also a bible school faithful I have access to these information.

The so called bible believing churches are busy squeezing their congregation for money and fighting openly over headship of their churches. Majority are pure business men. They are in it for what they will get, not to serve God or humanity. The church just beside my house collects all kinds of offering, seed offering, testimony offering, consultancy, tithe, general offering. At times when they call for offerings no one gets up again. Meanwhile the woman owner has suddenly grown in status.
How many of them can go to the villages and establish churches and truly do the work of God? Very few. That is why God will forever remain with the catholic chuch.
Love them, Hate them, they continue to spread the message of salvation. Shalom.