acl200: @CoolG
Happy new month to you, I'm wishing you all the best in this new month.
Yes you can ship your personal cars, moreso you don't have to declared it as personal effect because it will not be stated as personal effect in the Bill of Lading

femmy2010:

Your best bet it to ship it roro on Grimaldi shipping line.
N1.6m would clear the 2012 accord and N1.350m would clear either of the 2010 and 2011 Camry respectively.

Call 08036363467 or email duduconsultt at yahoo.com

biina:

Tenure limits guards against engendering poor corporate governance, by limiting the duration of effect. Else why do we have limited tenure in political office? why not let them be voted out by the populace?   while I agree that some people who could still be productive will be cut short, the risk is not worth the reward. It gives room for the injection of fresh blood and new ideas and not the stagnation that comes from unlimited tenure.The banking sector should be supervised defensively and not left to run amok like the cabal they have in the US. The interest of depositors should be ahead of the personal gain of the shareholder. It is not the responsibility of the CBN to make sure that a bank is making the most profit posiible, but rather that depositor are protected from poor management.   

Did you just justify the bank tenure limit by asking why the limited tenure in political office? That's where the fundamental problem lies in your assessment. The principle of tenure limit in democratic government (usually at presidential and gubernatorial positions) is derived from equality under the law with the purpose being to stop any person at that position from oppressing the populace and/or level the playing ground with incumbents not participating. If you actually believed that comparison you made then there's a significant problem with the way both of us understand business as it is being practiced worldwide and in Nigeria till this week. You said "Tenure limits guards against engendering poor corporate governance". That is just completely false. Evidences do not support that statement. You will be hard pressed to see a prescribed tenure limit in the same industry in most countries of the world.
I don't understand what you mean by cabals they have in US running amok. That is a sweeping statement rooted in fiction.

So there should be no northerners in banking again?
People say sanusi has ulterior motive aka northern agenda, I have only asked that you provide evidence that any of the distressed bank are now in the hands of the northerners (by stating how many), and not if there were any northerners in the first place.


I was only responding specifically to your question. Remember you asked if there's any northerner in the interim management of those banks. If you said in the hands of northerners, then the answer is No but the banks have not been sold yet. Besides even if the banks are sold to northerners i do not have complaints as long as the banks are appropriately valued. If you research well, you will discover that most CEOs do not consider banks ran by the current northern elites as competition. There's a reason for that. I couldn't care less what people say about Sanusi, i am concerned about his plans, policies and actions to engineer development and growth in the country.

It has never been a lack of policy but rather a supervisory oversight that allowed for the level of corruption in those banks. Still policy changes on such as check limits, narration on interbank transfer, information disclosure in financial statements etc all will make for a more transparent sector that will inhibit future corrupt practices. The enactment of a law does not stop crime, but the enforcement dissuades future offenders.


Check limit and narration on interbank transfer will make for a transparent sector that will inhibit future corrupt practices? how? Where did it contribute to the sacked CEOs self-enrichment? What the check limit policy is doing is to force the banks to use electronic clearing system of CBN or Nigeria Interbank more. The CBN electonic system was implemented by previous CBN chief to enhance the bank's efficiency and reduce operational risk. Information disclosure in financial statements was neither conceived nor instituted by the current CBN chief. The previous CBN chief instituted full disclosure and common year policy and gave the banks a deadline to comply. It is ironic that Intercontinental complied with information disclosure policy as at April 30, 2009 yet the ex-thief (sorry, ex-CEO) was still busy pilfering. Contrary to your observation, most policies were enforced but the frauds discovered in all these banks are what auditors call management override. If you ask around you will soon discover it is the most difficult fraud to identify. It took actual physical examination by a fairly honest CBN auditors and examiners to smoke the crooks. The problem has always been that the CBN auditors and examiners collude with the banks. For whatever reason they did their work last year.

Without prove, you have decided that it is aimed solely at those two. How does Jim Ovia being a bank CEO affect  Sanusi?


I did not state that as a fact. I said "I believe" and my reason is simple. It has no correlation to the problem at hand. 6 of the 8 CEO's removed had stayed less than 10 years with as many as 3 staying less than 5 years. More importantly, there is no correlation to the concept of corporate governance, which at its most basic definition is a way to conduct business with integrity as articulated by the board of directors and shareholders of a business as long as it is within the confines of the regulations of the industry. You can see why i said i do not believe it is illegal but rather a tool to achieve a purpose and does not belong in corporate governance.

If you are wondering how Jim Ovia being a bank CEO affect Sanusi, then you might want to consider that one of the oldest motivation to commit murder is jealousy. In this case, professional jealousy. It might look petty but it has been proven to be a powerful incentive. I am just answering your question.

The CBN has not said that the move is because those banks are distressed, but rather that it is better for the system if CEOs dont remain in office indefinitely. Under the current guise, a majority shareholder can remain CEO  for life and act in a manner that favors the shareholders (which in this case is mainly himself) at the expense of the depositors. The alternate solution is to bar anyone from having substantial shares in a bank, and I feel that would be unfair and moreso will likely require a review of the company act. The likes of Ovia can still own their banks and will ave a major say in who replaces them, they have just lost their executive powers. No individula should have a life sway on public funds, be it ina political office or otherwise.


Per your last sentence:
You keep saying something that is fundamentally not true. Banks are not public utility company. Banks are private sector business. People who put their money to start a business decide who should run their business and when the person should run their business. This is not a government post. The shareholders does not implement federal character in formation and running of their business. They do not pay their CEOs from a mandatory citizen tax. This is not national cake. It is not an equal participation business rather an equal opportunity employer. I clearly appreciate the role of CBN in regulating the sector, safeguarding depositors fund and the excesses of the CEOs but this policy is not one of them.

The notion of holding a life sway on public funds is a misconception.

If you think I am a northerner or pro north, then you are gravely mistaken. I just dont subscribe to using the ethnicity argument to make a point. I dont know which comments about Ribadu you are referring to, but for Sanusi, I supported his appointment and subsequent actions, because I feel he is the kind of governor the CBN needed.

I did not say you are a northerner or pro north. I only said that the pattern of your statements are suggestive. But at least we agree on one thing - Ribadu performed fairly well although he had some flaws!

The CBN serves as policy maker but also acts in a supervisory role, and it is the failings in carrying out the latter that has resulted in the mess that we call a banking sector (in fact I was hoping they would sack tunde lemo for his failings). All the increased capitalization carried out by Soludo and his predecessors were like pumping water into a leaking tank. Going forward, I actually think it would be better they split off the supervisory arm of the CBN so that we can have people that head each arm be more suited to their jobs, as we are yet to have one that is rounded in both.


I do think you understand that policies and guidelines are instruments of supervision. If you drill down to the procedures of the supervision, you have returns rendering, reviews and examination (audits). So, splitting the function will make no sense.

You think the bank consolidation is a waste? I only know few people who think the same. It is ironic that you think the previous CBN chief did nothing but when pressed for any change in policy that would have stopped the self-enrichment of the sacked CEOs, you extolled mostly policies that was conceived and instituted by him even though those policies were specifically to improve efficiency and reduce operational risk (and does not lend itself to issue at hand)

[b]As to the Mutallab issue, I at no point approved of his actions, and only wanted the facts made bare before people jumped to conclusions. I am sure you know about the nonexistent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, or that someone who learnt to fly a bi-plane flew a 747 into the WTC, or all the numerous fictitious black man crimes. I am just not quick to condemn a man on the words of the media nor the US government. Also I do not subscribe to the notion of equating the actions of an individual or handful of people to the desires of an entire ethnic group. It was that line of thinking that led us to the civil war, when the actions of  handful of Igbos were equated to the wishes of the entire ethnic group. Most criticize the northerners for it and yet want to apply same MO. Mutallab is responsible for his action, and his immediate family, talk less of the entire northern region should not be held responsible for it, nor should his action be extrapolated beyond himself. People were quick to start generalizing on the issue, when the kid is not even the typical Nigerian, talk less a northerner.[/b]

If you still believe that it was not muslim fanatics that piloted the plane into those towers, then i must admit i underestimated you.

It sad that it is only the masses that make issues about ethnicity, while the elites are busy embezzlement our money under the banner of one nation

BabaOnileK:

For anyone asking what the young outgoing CEO's can do after their retirement, they can learn from Fola Adeola who retired over five years ago at slightly over the age of 40.

We claim best practices and still avoid them. Do the Waltons run Walmart directly even if they own close to 50% or more of the shares? Does Warren Buffet run the many companies that Bershire Hathway own majority or significant shares in them? Was Bill Gates not forced to split the Chairman/CEO roles at Microsoft?

How come we see sectional/tribal issues in everything done in Nigeria?

jay bee:

^^^
the quote below was extracted from :http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=164801 and should help clarify your misconception about the newly created 10 yrs policy 

"The banking watchdog said all bank CEOs who would have served for 10 years by July 2010 shall cease to function in that capacity and shall hand over to their successors, and that where a bank is a product of a merger, acquisition or takeover or any other form of combination, the 10 years shall include the pre and post combination service years of a  CEO, provided the bank, which he served as a CEO was part of the new banks that emerged after the combination."

so was unity bank a product of all the your other listed banks merger?

biina:

Social engineering? has he barred those banks whose CEOs are to be ousted by the tenure limit from being replaced by their kinsmen?
Of the interim management of the five distressed banks. how many are northerners?
The guy is making the kind of supervisory moves that the sector needs, but you would rather we continue with the old system of siddon look and then when things pafuka, we begin arrest dead body for suicide.

Wilife:

Okay, I think I need to share a bit of my understanding on NL.

1) I read through the entire thread and worry that quite a number of us have not realized the failures of 'unclothed capitalism'. America is grappling with it's self made financial innovation today, Have you also wondered why countries you least expect such as China in the developing world and France and Germany in the developed world have turned the page and stopped the recession at least, Now, those are countries with varied forms of capitalism wrapped around socialist tendencies,

Read between the lines friends,

2) On the Nigerian banking debacle, This was a disaster waiting to happen, I know of one Nigerian bank that loudly touted its access to a number of foreign lines of credit, It turned out that the silly bank did not hedge the drawn down credit against foreign exchange fluctuations. When the foreign banks came back for their money, the Nigerian bank had to pay x2 the amount it drew down because Naira had crashed at the time, October '08 to February '09, due to falling oil prices and oil export,


They were not silly. They just do not understand how to manage financial risk and the concept of effective hedging strategies. The banks grew faster than the CEOs expected and they just did not have the management quality to run the behemoth they were building. I must also say that greed played a large part but poor management quality was a significant factor. Even for big Nigerian corporations, there is simply a lack of financial management. The same scenario you mentioned is similar to Access bank/AP court case. You wonder who is heading the treasury department of AP that did not realize he/she had to hedge a multi million dollar financing in foreign currency but it happened. This is one of my fears with the expansion that was just based on competitor reactions (which is not a bad thing if you know what you are doing) without thorough analysis of how that fits into the bank's corporate and business strategies or business model.

Just my thoughts, For fresh graduates or those still in school, I urge u to consider a career in Consulting rather than banking for a start, If you must do banking, u better target a specialized arm of banking such as M&A, Investment Banking , Specialized Finance et al,

BIGER BOY:

I agree some post in this room is baseless or of target, But let me try to clarify what this tread is about,

1 I and any sane person dont argue that soludo did a good job by facilitating the ban consolidation

2 Just because we hold him accountable does not mean he is a criminal or he did something fundementally wrong, No, but he was at the helm and should explain how things got so out of control

3 Even those citing the American example should note that Greenspan (the head of the Feds who made rates extaordinarily low creating the current asset buble) tenure saw an increadible rallying of the markets and economic growth, but he had to face the US senate to explain why rates were so low durring his tenure, and nontheless he is still accused in the US as the architect of the global crisis.


The people who hold the opinion that Greenspan is the architect of the global crisis are his critics, who never saw anything good in what he did to expand the economy and these people are in the minority of the consensus. The asset bubble was not caused only by the Feds low rate rather it was a combination of factors that crystallized at the same time including the US Govt amendment of Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) forcing banks to make mortgage loans to low-income people otherwise would not have approved for such mortgages, the excessive greed of the banks which led to irrational lending even when there are overwhelming evidence that borrowers cannot sustain those mortgages and then turn back to securitize the assets and sold them off and homeowners who were buying mortgages with fictitious financial papers, unsustainable means of livelihood, etc. The other factor was mark to market rule which eventually forced the banks to go down. The blame is shared across many actors, otherwise called layered responsibility.

4 Was the lack of oversight by the Feds in d US (same thing CBN or SOLUDO is accused of) worth it? It depends on who u ask, The banks engaged in huge gambling causing some of them to fail, housing market collapsed, the stock market lost more than half its value, Jobs were lost, and not to speak of the damages this caused to other economies in the world.


The lack of oversight by the Fed did not cause the crisis. That is an oversimplification of an issue that had myriad factors contributing to it, some of which i have mentioned above. Would you mind giving me one or two examples of the CBN lack of oversight in specific terms?

5 In Nija today these banks were fat and sick, thats why some people r worried that the current cbn policy caused all this. U ve got banks with negative working capital (neva mind their fiticious profits), granting unsecured loans, paying huge bonuses, even if money was water it will some day run out.


Do you know any bank that does not cook or massage its book? This has been going since the inception of financial reporting. What Central Bank authorities do worldwide is to institute controls to drastically reduce the 'cooking' but not to eliminate it. It is not a Nigerian thing.
Most of the loans were not unsecured as you thought. They were collateralized but the collaterals were impaired and have drastically lost value. That is different from unsecured. But the loans the CEOs gave themselves were generally unsecured as you mentioned.

6 what the cbn did was to save these banks by injecting money and knocking some senses into them. b4 they collapse and then we would not be talking of downsizing but collapse of banks, and not only jobs will be lost but also depositors monies like mine i have in one of these banks.

The banks were already saved when the previous CBN Governor created the EDW window. That was an adapted measure similar to TARP program in US and UK. It was an intervention meant to allow the banks weather the storm without creating public panic. Contrary to some opinions, the previous CBN Governor understood the position the banks got themselves into and initiated efforts to sustain and probably avoid higher unemployment. he subsequently launched special audit (stress test) into the initial 10 banks. The special audit report was only actioned by the current CBN Governor. If the previous Governor didn't think the banks were being disingenuous, why did he launch the special audit? The only difference was that he laid down a different route for the recovery of the banks to the President and the Economic team and they did not approve it. If you go back and listen to the President's speech after the sacking of the initial CEOs, you will clearly see that he wanted a new CBN Governor to action the report. The preliminary report was already submitted to the Presidency with the recommendation.

So, i do not understand what else the previous CBN Governor could have done that he didn't do or attempted to do. Clearly you can question if he should have moved faster, that's a legitimate debate but to suggest he did nothing to regulate the banks is inaccurate.

In retrospect, what the previous CBN Governor got wrong was not seeing the banks will act against their self-interest with the decision makers in these banks refusing to pursue rational, sustainable course of actions.


do u realy think if he did not have good intention he will save the banks, in fact he could just wait and as soon as one bank fails the domino effect begins on the others, but he did not.


He did not save the banks. The banks were already saved (through EDW) and that was how he saw the banks that they depended on EDW to weather the storm and he axed them. He actually exacerbated a bad situation. I do agree with you that he may have had good intentions but i believe the policy was badly timed and managed. You only need to look at his subsequent remarks and statements to know he did not realize the powerful position he was holding. He didn't seem to appreciate initially his words based on his powerful are almost like 'law' in the market. But i think he is doing better now and seems to be more tactful in his statements.

And note if Lamido should also falter we will call him out,

Meldrick:

[b]But is it really wrong to sanitize an industry that was at the verge of collapsing. Don't you think something worse would have happened but for the timely intervention of Lamido. A bank that declared a huge profit last year only to run into a loss worth billions of Naira this year. Doesn't it strike your mind that there were lots of fraudulent and dubious practices. Figures were manufactured to decieve the public and profits were declared on the floors of the Nigerian Stock Exchange. Notable audit firms cheaply sold their integrity and connived with these banks to give them a pass mark. Public offer was made. Students, young graduates, and others who sweated hardly for their money bought these shares only to realize they have been decieved (permit me to use the word duped). Are these bank chiefs or thieves not worse than the robbers on the street. Even the public who bought sshares from them find it difficult getting loans from the banks.

My there friend what is happening is inevitable. If it didn't happen now, it would have happened some day.
My prayer is that God should punish all those at the corridor of power who make life miserable for the masses. God should punish those bank chiefs that have put these bankers out of their jobs and May God provide better jobs for them. Amen
[/b]

Your explanation of the current situation is far too simple. The CBN Governor as a position wields tremendous power. That is the reason why you want them to talk little and work behind the curtain. Do you realize some CEO's had been removed under his predecessor with little razzmatazz including at the bank where the current CBN Governor worked as GM before moving to FB as Executive Director? I do not want to impugn his motive but his method leaves considerable number of knowledgeable people scratching their heads for a rationale that the upside outweighs the downside. Even a few of his supporters are no longer at ease.

Now to address your points. One, the industry was not at verge of collapsing. Most of the banks were over-exposed to concentration risk which was serious but did not rise to the point of collapse. The stock price decline caused many assets to be impaired which was a contributory factor. They could have weathered the storm. So the notion it would have been worse had it not been for timely intervention of CBN Governor is at best preposterous. He actually exacerbated the situation with the methods he employed, maybe unintentionally.

Declaring a large profit last year and then large losses this year. This is not a misnomer. The problem here is clear misunderstanding. In a downturn, interest bearing assets tend to migrate down to loss status faster within the prudential guidelines and banks are forced to make 100% provision. So, you can turn from one quarter of profits to another quarter of big losses as customers stop making repayments because of cash crunch. It even becomes more rampant with a total credit squeeze as is prevalent now. So banks are going to make even more provisions. While it is possible that fraudulent practices can cause that but it is equally possible the write has nothing to do with fraudulent practices particularly in the current environment. I would even argue that the case here is assets deteriorating to loss status and hence the banks have to make 100% provision. Maybe you might take time to study the financial statements and see that some of them had fairly good earnings and others even had a positive earnings growth. Let me leave it here for another day.

Notable audit firms sold their integrity and connived with the banks. Is this really the truth? If it were, how come CBN Governor appointed the same "notable audit firms" to be advisers to the same banks in the ongoing reform. Again, my view is that the problem is misunderstanding of the responsibilities of chartered accounting firms.  The auditors give unqualified opinion based on "reasonable assurances" and not based on absolute assurances. The management is ultimately responsible for the fairness of the presentation of the financial statements and not the auditing firms. Unless anyone can prove any case of connivance, i think your statement is inaccurate.

Students, young graduates and others who sweated hard were duped. It is not true. First of all, you did not put your money in a deposit. If you did, the CBN Governor has guaranteed the money. What you did was to make an investment. Every investment is a risk and people make these investments based on their risk appetite. Investments in stock is no different. Stock prices go 'highs' and 'lows', so even though the prices are very low today, it does not mean they would not go up to 10, 20, 30 or 40 naira in the next year or two depending on the particular bank. So the notion that it is a loss is comical. This is called extreme wealth decline and not a total loss unless the bank goes under.    

My there friend what is happening is inevitable. I disagree. There is nothing inevitable about the current situation. In my opinion, it is a case of taking a bad situation and making it worse. A more careful CBN Governor could have achieved the same purpose (sanitizing the rot) with little or no damage to the credibility of the institutions or stripping the institutions bare.

To make a quick comment on the extraordinary losses published by the 8 banks last week. Those losses are not a true reflection of those banks financial position. They were instructed to make 100% provision on substandard and doubtful loans. That meant they were making provisions over and above the existing prudential guidelines while the other 'healthy' banks are left to make 100% provision only on loans that are outright loss. Why should this worry you? Because even the new CEOs appointed by CBN Governor told him that the instruction will damage the trust they have been building over the few months and apparently the CBN Governor agreed, only to call the CEOs several hours after the meeting and insisted they publish the interim F/S. While there are many downsides to this decision, there is a noteworthy upside. The upside is that the banks will return to profitability by early 2010, possibly first or second quarter.

Finally, substantial blame for all these should go to the former bank executives and their board of directors. There was just unnecessary display of wealth, greed, poor corporate governance, low management quality and in some cases, some of them do not have the experience and vision to run and manage the behemoth they are building or built. Really i do not have sympathy for most of them but i'll let the court pronounce them guilty or otherwise.