AbuTwins:


Which one sir?

It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720)

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allah (may Allah be pleased with him) that when the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to Makkaah, he came to the Black Stone and touched it, then he walked to the right of it and ran three times and walked four times [around the Ka’bah]. (Narrated by Muslim, 1218).

It is neither of these but this that the OP places emphasis on.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an atonement for sins .

AbuTwins:
As regard the Black stone, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kissed it, and we followed him in doing so. If a person is unable to kiss it he should touch it with his hand or with something, and then kiss that thing. If he is unable to do that he should point to it with his hand and say [b]Allaahu akbar.[/b]Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allaah erases sins.

Bro. Are you aware that this specific narration is not found in the most authentic collections of Hadith such as Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Muslim. Therefore, its authenticity may be questioned.

SIRTee15:

Libation is for the god not for the stone. Just like when U bow before kabba U worshipping Allah and not the kabba.


Yes U do. U may deny the hadiths for all U like but your authentic sahih confirmed the stone can forgive sin.
Its says it was once white but became black due to people's sins. How can an ordinary stone archive that? Pls explain.

Also the stone will testify against insincere Muslims on judgement day when he will have eyes and mouth. How can the stone talk of it has no divine powers.
Pls explain.


This doesn't make sense. Why should U do something because Muhammed did it, do U worship Muhammed or God.
Muhammed married a 6yr old girl and raided caravans, such a actions will be met with condemnation in today's world even amongst Muslims if anyone tried to copy it.
U dont know why Muhammed kissed the black stone so copying it blinding without any clear authorisation from Allah is blind faith.

Exactly so why venerate it at a time meant only to worship Allah. That's what makes it all suspicious.
Sharing time solely meant for Allah with a stone is paganism.


I brought U hadith where it says the stone forgives sin but U rejected it without because U hated the answer.
I will bring it here again...

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is[b] an atonement for sins[/b].”
If U reject above hadith then explain why the black stone is said to have turned from white to black because of sin of people kissing it.



Well this is your own opinion. Most Muslims believe the stone does forgive sin.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/1902

Libation of the Polytheists is for gods (plural/polytheism) not God. You can insist for your satisfaction that the aforementioned isn't true. Ask your traditionalist friends or acquaintances if other gods exist as well as the ones they pour libation for?

Have you bothered to study the the chain of transmission and the text of hadith that say the black stone grants forgiveness? Please provide the text of the prayer made to the black stone asking it for forgiveness and a report of its response otherwise stop repeating what is untruth.

Do you not see how illogical your claim of a black stone being white then turned black due to sins is? When you paint your house with high quality paint does it not darken over years of exposure to natural element? I thought you are a professional of advanced scientific learning? Why is it not called the once white but blackened stone or any other such variant? Give statistically representative evidence of people that saw it when it was white. I figure you have another repugnant untruthful response to this.


Why prophet Muhammad kissed the stone has been explained before. His forefather's placed it after it came to earth. Do you not know how certain treasure passed from generation to generation are valued? When footballers win even the world cup don't they kiss it despite replicas being made for tournaments? This stone is the same over several millennia.

How is Allah's time shared? It seems you don't know all the rights of hajj are in worship of Allah.

Just noticed you repeat the usual slander of the age of Aisha that is definitely a lie. Scrutiny of this by scholars do not agree with this.
https://newlinesmag.com/essays/oxford-study-sheds-light-on-muhammad-underage-wife-aisha/#:~:text=According%20to%20Little%2C%20the%20claim,of%20Aisha%20against%20Shiite%20detractors.


https://www.academia.edu/37720516/A_Hadith_Scholar_Presents_New_Evidence_that_Aisha_was_Near_18_the_Day_of_Her_Marriage_to_the_Prophet_Muhammad?email_work_card=title

It is an over flogged case and has no direct relation with your originally asked question or do you now equate the prophet's marriage to the primary acts of worshipping Allah?

I imagine this later inclusion is a ploy for further unending discussion.

Dsimmer:


Ode, what nonsense culture are you talking when Arab ethnicity are 90-95% in the Northern Africa while they practise Arab culture yet this is what your unintelligent self can come up with? Na craze? Are you that useless? As I said, your unintelligent self exonerating the criminals Arabs who now dominate the North Africa while the aborigines were wiped out shows how useless and stupid you're ! 🙄It seems camel urine drinking has finally damaged your brain or you've got none to begin with.

On allah, the proof of allah being coined from allat is the allat's kabba stone worshipping today and the crescent ritual. Not to mention the useless brothel heaven promised by the camel drinking lunatic criminal Arab pedophile Mohammad. As I said already, the dumb perverted criminal allah promising perverted brothel for its fellow perverted criminal terrorist people in its hell 😅 doesn't even know the count of days to begin with because its unintelligible dumb self says light was created after the earth. That can't be Ela which means intelligence, light, purity/righteousness in Yoruba language btw..

You resort to outright abuse as you are unable to provide proof for your misguided fantasy? Do Arabs make up 90-95% of the North African population? Prove you don't lie by presenting credible report to back your claim.

Continue spewing your ignorance. No Muslim worships any stone. All worship is for and to Allah.

When you stop deliberately or stupidly lying we can discuss. Until then continue alone or with your type.

Dsimmer:


Nah. Arabs are the ones who dominate the Northern Africa today. Sink that into your useless unintelligent skull.

To think your useless unintelligent self is exonerating the criminals Arabs who now dominate the North Africa while the aborigines were wiped out shows how useless and stupid you're !

Mohammad changed allat to allah with the same double LL 📌because he wasn't cool with the fact that it's a female deity hence why allat's kabba is being used today. The useless allah which promises a brothel heaven doesn't even know the count of the days to begin with 😅 since it created light after the earth😅 according to the unintelligent camel urine drinking criminal Pedophile Mohammad 😂

That's why it can't be Ela which represents light and intelligence in Yoruba language. Btw, Ela who is Omoloju Eledumare/Olodumare is the complete/absolute extension of Olodumare which created Obatala (light) and Oduduwa (the black vessel/space which includes the earth) which formed the whole universe.

Arabs dominate a region you claim has wiped out the aborigines? How come the original northern Africans manage to retain their unique cultural identity? Today, the Berbers continue to celebrate their ancient traditions and languages. Are the Tamazight and Tifinagh script practices of the Arabs? It appears you no longer understand the phrase wiped out which you use.

Despite the influence of the Arabs, the original northern Africans manage to retain their unique cultural identity. Today, the Berbers continue to celebrate their ancient traditions and languages.They also make significant contributions to the cultural diversity of northern Africa, influencing art, music, and literature in the region. The legacy of the original northern Africans lives on in the rich tapestry of cultures that make up modern-day northern Africa.


The word "Allat" is a compound word that is often used in reference to one of the multiple gods or deities in ancient Middle Eastern religions. It was commonly used in the pre-Islamic era to refer to a goddess in Arabian polytheism.

Allah is the singular, all-powerful God worshipped by Muslims. Allah is distinct from Allat which is a compound word Al-lat.

Your bias unfortunately enhances disuse of any intellectual capacity you may have. It is no bother but be sure to support your error with irrefutable proof. I have shown you that neither the grandfather of the prophet pbuh despite his love of his grandson nor Abu Talib accepted Islam like you wrongly claimed.

Al-lat idol was destroyed as other idols in the kaaba as well as the temple in Ta'if.

When Mecca was conquered by Muslim forces in 630 AD, Prophet Muhammad pbuh ordered the destruction of all idols within the Kaaba, including Al-lat.

This event signified a turning point in the religious landscape of Arabia, as it marked the end of polytheistic practices in one of its most sacred sites.

Dsimmer:



And where are the majority of the Berbers in North Africa today? Murdered and displaced.

The Berbers were the Libyans described as having tawny skins who cover their skins with feathers as described by the Greek traveller Herodotus who differentiated the Berbers from the Black Egyptians.

Both the Blacks Egyptians and the Berbers Libyans and also in Tunisia were all wiped out by the criminal Arabs yet your unintelligent useless self is saying what exactly? Are you stupid?

Berbers are predominantly located in North African countries such as Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Mauritania, Mali, and northern Niger.

In Algeria, approximately one-fourth of the population is estimated to be Berber, while in Morocco, Berbers are estimated to make up more than three-fifths of the population.

From where have they been wiped out unless wiped out no longer means totally eradicated?

Dsimmer:


So it's the Europeans who asked Africans not to improve African countries since the Europeans left or asked you to be drinking unhealthy camel urine, even as the Fulani criminals refused to be uncivilized with their useless ulterior motives!

If the Europeans had acted like Arab did to Northern Africa who were wiped out by the Arabs, you wouldn't even be here saying gibberish to begin with.

Meanwhile, Nigeria had functional regional system which accelerated a lot of development and great things until it was destroyed by criminals in 1967 yet you're blaming the Europeans?

The proof of allat becoming allah is allat's kabba ritual today and also the crescent, as well as Mohammad's grandfather.

Pre Mohammed Arabs who were practicing Christianity called God Ilah (ilah) derived from the Jewish and Aramaic name for God, Ela/Eloah📌

The legacy of colonialism continues to impact Africa’s growth and stability. International control over Africa’s resources and economies has been a significant factor contributing to the continent’s underdevelopment. The exploitation by external powers disrupt indigenous systems, hinder technological progress, and perpetuate economic disparities that continue to affect Africa today.

Africa exports raw materials like cotton but imported manufactured goods due to technological stagnation caused by European interference.

Various global superpowers and countries provided support to either Nigeria or Biafra, influenced by economic interests, Cold War dynamics, and regional alliances. The key players in this international double play include Great Britain, the Soviet Union, France, China, the United States, and several other minor countries.

Africa, despite its abundant natural resources, remains one of the poorest regions in the world. The continent has persistently lagged behind other continents in terms of economic wealth and human capital development. This situation can be attributed to a combination of historical factors, including colonial exploitation and more recent issues such as corruption and mismanagement. You may recall when the past military regime in 1983-85 tried to recover the loot of Dikko from UK and recently how the west keeps allowing their institutions remain safe havens for looted funds which should develop Africa.

al-Lat’s temple was in Ta’if and was demolished. I have told you before that the pre-islamic polytheist say we worship them (i.e. the idols) only so that they may bring us nearer to Allah." (Quran 39:3).

Worship at the Kaaba and prayers in the direction of the kaaba are strictly towards Allah.

Both relatives of the prophet Muhammad pbuh; his grandfather, Abdul Mutalib, and his uncle, Abu Talib, did not accept Islam. So you see your unfounded claims?

Recent research by scholars like Joshua Little from Oxford University and others suggests that this widely accepted narrative is based on historical fabrications rather than factual evidence.

Dsimmer:


The backwardness I was just talking about.

While every sane people are trying to live in innovative civilized world, this one is still living in the barbaric backward practice of Arab foreign religion which doesn't concern him in the first place. Were you under rock when it was certified that camel urine is unhealthy for the body? If you had a brain to begin with, you would know urine is a waste product! Mohammad was dumb and that was why he drank camel's urine..

And yes, allah is from allat stone deity at kabba. That was the deity which Mohammad grandfather almost sacrificed his child to.

Pre Mohammed Arabs who were practicing Christianity call God "ilah" which is derived from Jewish and Aramaic name for God which is "elah/eloah"

Mohammed came and elevated the allat deity which his grandfather almost sacrificed his child to. That's why the criminal pedophile Mohammed continued with the ritual of crescent and stone worshipping at allat's Kabba. Mohammed wasn't cool with it being a female deity thus changed to a male deity coined from allat. Added with his criminality, camel urine drinking, pedophila (he married 6 yrs Aisha for example) while his useless unintelligible self promised a brothel heaven. The nerves!

Backwardness you say. What sort of independence was given to African countries? Were they not made to adopt the practices of their Colonial masters in their pseudo independence? Are they still not subjected to them in the queer guise of world and United government bodies? Tell me which one has been able to design their own governing system as was in the pre-colonised era?

Independence has not translated to prosperity or justice for all Africans. It brought challenges such as internal conflicts, ethnic divisions, corruption, neocolonialism, globalization, and the need to redefine and reassert independence in the face of new forms of oppression.

Africa’s independence can be viewed as a mixed reality depending on various perspectives. On one hand, most African countries have achieved political sovereignty with their governments, constitutions, flags, national anthems recognized by international community. On the other hand, many countries still face challenges such as legacy impacts of colonialism/imperialism/slavery (ethnic conflicts/artificial borders), external influences (former colonizers/multinational corporations/international organizations), underdevelopment/dependency/poverty which limit their freedom/agency. Thus it is essential to acknowledge both achievements & challenges when considering Africa’s independence today.

There is no proof that allat became Allah and you just say what you feel as they seem similar.

Dsimmer:


More severe yet Africans are still existing in Africa lands and Europe unlike in Northern Africans and Saudi were they were wiped out? You must be insane!

And the European are not the ones who asked African countries not to be able to elevate and improve their countries while some carry backward foreign religion on top head like gele, even as the backward Fulani criminals refused to be civilized with their useless ulterior motives. Heck, some Africans destroyed their functioning regionalism.

All the early major Berber tribes including the Masmuda, Sanhaja, Ketama Zenata and Nafusa are described as dark reddish brown like the “Indi’ or as “blacks” or Ethiopians in early documents.

The original inhabitants of North Africa, prior to Arab invasions and the trans-Saharan slave trade, were primarily Berber tribes. The Berbers are an ethnic group indigenous to North Africa, including regions such as Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Mauritania. They have a diverse range of physical appearances, including varying skin tones.

The Berber people traditionally had a range of skin colors that could be described as fair to olive-toned to darker shades. This variation in skin color among the Berber tribes was due to a combination of genetic diversity and historical interactions with other populations in the region

Dsimmer:


Of course I already opined that allat/allah isn't from ilah just like I have severally stated.

Allah was got from Allat deity at Kabba whom Muhammad's grandfather almost sacrificed his child to. Mohammed wasn't cool with it being a female deity thus changed it to a male deity but continued with the crescent and stone worshipping at allat's Kabba nonetheless, added with his criminality, pedophila, camel urine drinking while his unintelligent useless self promised a perverted brothel heaven. The nerves!

Anyways, all that ain't even my business. Point is Africans are not Arabs!

Al-Lat/Allat is not Allah and was worshipped as a separate deity in pre-Islamic Arabia. Your claims on dislike about her ferminity is too far reaching. Did Islam not abolish killing the female child?

Al-Lat was considered a chief deity of certain tribes like Banu Thaqif in Ta’if. However, her worship ended when her temple in Ta’if was destroyed on the orders of Muhammad. What tribe is Muhammad pbuh of?

The slanderous claims of paedophilia are untrue and unfounded.

Also camel urine furnished promising antibacterial activities against gram-positive bacteria, namely Staphylococcus aureus, Bacillus cereus, Bacillus subtilis and Micrococcus luteus, as well as gram-negative bacteria, especially Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumoniae. This is from scientific research not the careless statements.

Dsimmer:


You're the one exonerating the criminal Arabs. If the European had acted as Arabs, you wouldn't even be here saying anything 🤔

Facts is the European have left African lands, even as the Africans are still in their own African countries which European previously occupied before leaving!

That can't be said for the Arabs who are still occupying African lands while the northern Africans were wiped out.

That's my answer!

I am not in any way exonerating the Arabs; both practices were bad. Simply stating that European practices even over a shorter period were more severe.

What is the true skin colour of the Indians. Remember they too were colonised and even much longer than most African countries?

Have the Europeans really left Africa or you uphold this pseudo independence that is still colonisation? How many types of South African s exist?

Dsimmer:


Exactly. Allat was Mohammad's tribe stone deity at Kabba. If the child was female, it would be LLAT but if it was male child, it would be AbduLLAH.

That was why Mohammad elevated Allat deity among the other deities but wasn't cool at the fact that it was a female deity thus changed it to a male but continued with allat's crescent and stone worshipping at allat's kabba😂 He then added the Jewish history narrated to him by his brother in-law Waraqah who was practising Christianity however the criminal Mohammad continued with his criminality, pedophila, camel urine drinking and promise of a brothel heaven😂😂😂 The unintelligent criminal lunatic Arab.

Would say comical but the extent of assumption is incredible. Allah, according to several Arabic lexicons, means "the Being Who comprises all the attributes of perfection", i.e. the Being Who is perfect in every way (in His knowledge, power etc.), and possesses the best and the noblest qualities imaginable in the highest degree.

Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god').
Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb similarly Ya ar-Rahman is wrong so it is Ya Rahman.


Allah was NOT one of the gods of the pre-Islamic Arabs, but was recognised by them as the supreme, abstract God. There was no idol which they called "Allah". The Quran quotes the idol-worshippers as presenting the argument that:
"We worship them (i.e. the idols) only so that they may bring us nearer to Allah." (39:3)

Dsimmer:


I simply stated the truth. I know of the European occupation in Africa which I have also stated, even as we all saw the same in Nigeria.

Point is If the Europeans had acted like Arab, you wouldn't even be here today saying anything. Your ancestors would have been murdered or castrated like Arabs did to the Northern Africans while the Arabs occupy the North Africa land till today.

Of course this isn't exonerating the Europeans who also enslaved Africans but the Arabs were far worse. Also, it was the European who stopped slavery whereas Arab didn't want to.

I sense a bias in favour of the Europeans.

You should note that while both Arab and European slavers subjected African slaves to inhumane treatment, there were variations in how they utilized their enslaved populations. Arab slavers often preferred African women over men for various purposes.
Europeans primarily used African slaves for labor-intensive tasks on plantations in the Americas, leading to significant exploitation and abuse. They went as far as padlocking the mouth to prevent consumption of plantation produce.

In Arab slavery, body distortions were not as widespread as in European slavery. However, some Arab slave owners practiced castration on male slaves to prevent them from reproducing or to serve as eunuchs in harems.
In contrast, European slavery was characterized by a higher prevalence of body distortions among African slaves. Enslaved individuals were often subjected to extreme physical labor that resulted in deformities and musculoskeletal issues. Additionally, some European slave owners engaged in practices such as foot binding or dental mutilation that caused lasting body distortions among the enslaved population.

European slavery exhibited a higher incidence of body distortions due to the harsh working conditions and additional practices aimed at dehumanizing the enslaved individuals.

Dsimmer:


Nah. The Arab skin didn't undergo any changes.

They're are mix of Ishmael, Esau and Iraq. In fact, I believe Esau descendants wiped out the black people and Ishmaelite living there.

Point is it's absolutely callous for the Arab to have wiped out the Egyptians. What the hell?

As for the Europeans, while the European have got their own faults for what they also did to Africans but at least, they didn't wipe out Africans when they enslaved Africans.

As for mathematics, medicine, philosophy etc.. everyone were doing their own thing on that. Yoruba for example had their own Ifa mathematics, vigesimal etc. The Egyptians were also doing their own thing. The Greek with Euclid were doing their own thing. The Hindu also had their own hindu numeral mathematics which was even plagiarized by Al Kwarizmi.

I praise your recollection of history.
Interesting you didn't trace as far back as Eber.

Eber is sometimes regarded as the “father” of prehistoric Arabs in the Arabian Peninsula after the Deluge.

Dsimmer:


Egyptian were blacks as stated by ancient Greeks such as Aristotle, Plato etc. All of them were wiped out by Arabs during Arab conquest and slavery of Egypt.

Tunisia and Morocco were Tuaregs and African Berbers. Wiped out by Arab during Arab conquest and slavery of Northern Africans.

Anyways, what Africans need is civilization. Not retrogressive backward foreign practice which has done more harm to Africans by murdering them and sinking them into poverty!

The influence of bias on History.

Do you not know that The Romans occupied Egypt in 30 BC after defeating the forces of Cleopatra VII and Mark Antony at the Battle of Actium.

You choose to ignore the Roman origin of the Byzantine army?

The Byzantine rule in Egypt had been weakened due to previous occupations by the Sasanian Empire, making it vulnerable to the Arab invasion. The conquest of Egypt was strategically significant as it not only ended Byzantine control but also provided access to the wealth of the region.

The Arab conquest of Egypt was a pivotal event that ended Byzantine rule in the region.
Amr ibn al-As proposed the invasion of Egypt due to its wealth and strategic importance, despite initial reluctance from Caliph Umar.

Some ignorant people think, that the purpose of touching and kissing the black stone is to seek blessing and forgiveness from it, there is no basis for that, so it is false." (Majmu‘ Fatawa wa Rasa’il Ash-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymin 2/318-319)

SIRTee15:


1. If U discuss with traditionalists they will clearly tell I they don't honour or worship the stone. Its simply a symbolic representation of their religious practice. That the stone is lost will in no way hinder the worship of their deity.

2. So are U saying Muslims do not venerate the black stone. I know some Muslims believe it has the power to forgive sin according to the hadiths.

3. I find it odd that Muslims will travel to Mecca for pilgrimage to spend quality time with Allah, then during the worship of Allah would now share that moment with a stone. Especially if this stone is nothing at all.
I would have understand if it forgives sin, then we can say it shares attributes with Allah thus may share time with Allah too...
But if U insist the stone is nothing....then I don't understand why pilgrims will be venerating a stone at a time he should be spending with Allah.

I have not discussed with the traditionalist but know they say when they poor libation that that is for the gods. Definitely showing a Polytheist belief very different from Islam.

Muslims do not attach divine power to the stone. As `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said: You’re just a stone that does not benefit or harm anyone, and if I hadn’t seen the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) kissing you, I would have not done so.

So, we are simply touching or kissing the Black Stone in order to honor us with association the practice of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. It does not imply any reverence whatsoever.

In any case the black stone isn't mentioned in the Quran or clearly regarded as having 'godly' powers. All worship is for Allah alone who alone bestows and forgives.


Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Verily, I am commanded to worship Allâh (Alone) by obeying Him and doing religious deeds sincerely for Allâh's sake only and not to show off, and not to set up rivals with Him in worship;

Allah solely forgives sins.
39:14 Say, "Allah [alone] do I worship, sincere to Him in my religion

Hajj is one of the greatest pillars of Islam if the Muslim has the means to perform this for the sake of worshipping Allah and has numerous benefits including forgiveness of sin by Allah and no other

SIRTee15:
I decided to bring this here because I'm yet to receive a logical response to my query. All I'm getting is emotional outburst and insults.

Can someone explained to me the difference between these 2 belief system.
Why is one called idolatry and the other not called paganism.
Why can't both of them worship together under the same roof since they both venerate a stone?
Why should adherent of one of the faith travel to Mecca to lick a stone only to come back to Africa and mock someone pouring gin on a stone a pagan.

Pls no insult...just need clarification.

LegalWolf AntiChristian elhakiimed motayoayinde, drlateef, Lukuluku69 , AbuTwins , honesttalk21, Explore2xmore Ohyoudidn't, Qasim6.

When traditional adherents pour libation it is clearly an offering to the deity or spirit.

This is clearly different from the act of touching or kissing the black stone in Mecca as all acts of worship for a Muslim is towards Allah and nothing else.

The significance of the black stone lies in its connection to Prophet Muhammad pbuh and the pilgrim acts associated with the Kaaba rather than being an object of worship itself.

The Kaaba constitutes a point all Muslims face in unity of faith while praying to Allah

advocatejare:

How did crescent moon get to the top of the minarets of your holiest mosques if your Allah is not a pagan moon god? Or was Allah so powerless to have allowed Othman empire to use moon to represent him?

Keep repeating your rhetoric please

advocatejare:

Rubbish, so of the symbols in the world, why did they choose crescent moon? Why that one in particular, because your idol Allah is a pagan moon idol

The crescent represents a phase of the moon, symbolizing growth, renewal, and new beginnings. In it's application in Islamic context, it marks the beginning of Ramadan, and other months.

Although not originally an Islamic emblem, it became widespread with the spread of Islam due to its association with unity, brotherhood, and the passage of time in the Islamic calendar under the Ottoman Empire.

You know very well that pre-islamic Arabs didn't worship Baal. There is no mention of Baal specifically in the context of pre-Islamic Arabian worship.

According to Canaanite mythology, Baal was the son of El, the chief god, and Asherah, the goddess of the sea. Baal was considered the most powerful of all gods. Baal worship is well reported in the Bible and probably is a core of the faith of Christianity that Jesus himself didn't preach.

The practice of Baal worship infiltrated Jewish religious life during the time of the Judges (Judges 3:7), became widespread in Israel during the reign of Ahab (1 Kings 16:31-33) and also affected Judah (2 Chronicles 28:1-2). The word baal means “lord”; the plural is baalim. In general, Baal was a fertility god who was believed to enable the earth to produce crops and people to produce children. Israel keeps strong presence in agriculture if this superstitious myth is to be considered.

Baal of Peor (Numbers 25:3) and Baal-Berith (Judges 8:33) are clear examples of such localized deities.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udcamrulh6o?si=ZPwWkEZNXJlTBCHP

Allah is the monotheistic God in Islam. There's none worthy of worship beside Allah

Lost and or hidden in translation.

The Ten Commandments
20 Then Elohim spoke all these words:

2 “I am Yahweh your Elohim, who brought you out of slavery in Egypt.

3 “Never have any other god. 4 Never make your own carved idols or statues that represent any creature in the sky, on the earth, or in the water. 5 Never worship them or serve them, because I, Yahweh your Elohim, am El Kanna. I punish children for their parents’ sins to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me. 6 But I show mercy to thousands of generations of those who love me and obey my commandments.

sonmvayina:


Allah was already being worshipped long before anybody called Muhammad existed.His so called Father's name was Abdullah which means savent of Allah..

Elohim means plural..

So, there are several gods, but only one creator of the universe...He gave the other Gods their station, to Allah he gave the moon. As his domain.

Well asper Gen.1:26...I don't know what else to tell you, maybe when you grow up you will understand..
Till then... shalom

Indeed the ancient people now Allah; the almighty God.

The false knowledge you and your likes acquire lead to arrogance and the corruption of the truth?

Glad that everyone is responsible for his or herself.

sonmvayina:


If you bothered to continue reading you will get to where it says " And God formed man from the dust of the earth and breath into his nostrils and man became a living soul....
Man is is made up of dust from the earth and breath of God.....
So where did the dust come from ?

From my extensive research..Allah would be the equivalent of the moon God sin or Nanna, it could not have been Marduk.....

Do you disregard that the Hebrew word for God is ELOHIM and that the word is plural. Do you not know Deuteronomy 6:4 that emphasises the oneness of God. If you did you will understand that the plural God is one God or a God who is a “plural-one.

Equating Allah with these ancient gods overlooks the theological differences and historical contexts that define each deity.


Who created the dust? In any case this discussion was not with the earth.

Your conclusions are wrong

Antilslaam:


The below again is Ala Maududi tafsir in regards to Quran 19:33 we are referencing to here, stay on the track and do justice to the questions raised.. This is not the time to go deaf, dumb and blind


(19:33) Peace be upon me the day I was born and the day I will die, and the day I will be raised up alive."

This speech in the cradle by Jesus was the sign to which the angel referred in( Ayat 21). As Allah intended to punish the children of Israel for their continuous wicked ways and evil deeds, He made a pious virgin girl of the family of Prophet Aaron, who had devoted herself to worship in the Temple under the patronage of Zachariah, bear a child and bring it before her people in order to concentrate the whole attention of the thousands of people assembled there on this extraordinary event. Then He made this new born child speak out even in the cradle that he had been appointed a Prophet. Though they had seen this wonderful sign of Allah, they rejected the Prophethood of Jesus and brought him to the court for crucifixion, and thus incurred the wrath of Allah.


THE QUESTION IS:

1. Is Jesus Christ brought to the court for crucifixion as a prophet while in cradle since you said he had been appointed a prophet from the birth

N.B. To be on the safer side, just answer YES or NO then we'll move on

When Mary the mother of her Jesus took her baby Jesus to show her people was this a court?

Is it the people that brought baby Jesus to the location he spoke as a baby?

Was the speech of Jesus as a baby actually part of his prophethood or defense of the peculiar situation of his mother?

Did Jesus as a baby debate and castigate the religious leaders of the Jews and Israelites?


4.156-162 Maududi - Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
This is in continuation of the theme under discussion.
The calumny against Mary concerning the birth of Jesus has been declared here as "disbelief" because it was not directed against the person of innocent Mary or her son but against Jesus Christ, the Messenger of God. The Jews had absolutely no ground for suspicion about his miraculous birth without father, because God had caused the whole Community to stand as witness to the miracle. When Virgin Mary, who belonged to the noble and well-known religious family of the Israelites, came home with the new-born child, a large crowd gathered there and demanded an explanation from her. But she simply pointed to the child. The crowd could not understand how a child in the cradle could speak, but to their utter astonishment, the child began to speak clearly and fluently and addressing the crowd, he declared, "I am Allah's servant: Allah has given me the Book and made me a Prophet." (Maryam, XIX : 30)

Remember the initial tafsir you stand on is on
Maryam, XIX : 30 and Ala Madudi tafsir in on verses 30-33
A simple request that you show where Ibn Kathir also says Jesus was taken to court as a baby and subsequently crucified has been repeated and you pretend not to see it or refuse to answer or both.

You're reasoning is surely closed at the moment and I have no more time to waste with you.

صُمٌّۢ بُكْمٌ عُمْىٌۭ فَهُمْ لَا يَرْجِعُونَ
"Willful ignorance being assembled, so those not revert themselves"

sonmvayina:


this has got nothing to do with royal plural, remember the satanic verses, if Allah has daughters, then he must have a partner as in a consult. Allah is the moon god, SIN/NANNA . who had three daughters, the first is INANNA, who is lucifer. i guess she would be Alat

in genesis chapter 1:26 God was talking to the earth as the earth provided the dust for creating the body of man while God breath into it to bring it to life..

God was not talking to the earth in Genesis 1:26. The verse states, “Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’” In this context, God is divinely and the verse reflects the use of the majestic plural with God.

Your thoughts are extremely far reaching.
Sumerian a language of Mesopotamia belongs to an isolated language family, while Arabic is part of the Semitic language family. This difference indicates distinct linguistic origins for both languages.

And if you choose Akkadian then you must know that despite some similarities due to their common Semitic roots, Akkadian and Arabic have significant differences in terms of vocabulary, grammar, and phonetics. While there may be some lexical overlap or shared features due to their historical connections, the overall structures of these languages are distinct.

Your extraneous drive to relate the pre-islamic idols are interesting but totally baseless. Allah begets not and neither is he begotten

advocatejare:

Why haven’t answered this:
How did crescent moon get to the top of the minarets of your holiest mosques if your Allah is not a pagan moon god? Or was Allah so powerless to have allowed Othman empire to use moon to represent him

Answer it and we will continue!

The specific year when this practice first began is not definitively documented due to the gradual evolution of architectural styles and traditions in different regions influenced by Islamic culture. However, historical records and architectural studies suggest that the incorporation of crescents on minarets alongside mosques can be traced back to the early centuries of Islam, with notable examples dating back to the 9th century.


The crescent moon has been associated with Islam for a long time, although it is important to note that the crescent itself is not a religious symbol in Islam. Instead, it has been used as a decorative motif and symbol of cultural identity. The association between Islam and the crescent likely originated from its historical use in various contexts related to Islamic history.

Antilslaam:


Now go back to ala maududi, read gently all over again and point out to where he mention Jesus at 30?

Should we conclude that the first question is hard for allah and Muhammad to answer through you?

1. Is Jesus Christ brought to the court for crucifixion as a prophet while in cradle since you said he had been appointed a prophet from the birth




Ala maududi said so, should I screenshot since you are finally in disarray? But wait did you now hate Maududi for exposing your stupidity?

Ala Madudi says Jesus Christ was brought to court to be crucified as a baby you say and you suggest Ibn Kathir also has this view as you claim to reference both of them

honesttalk21:
Though they had seen this wonderful Sign of Allah, they rejected the Prophethood of Jesus and brought him to the court for crucifixion


Did you not change though they had seen this wonderful sign to and .....?

I don't blame you. It's your way and those before you.

I asked that you show similar from Ibn Kathir you keep repeating what is said before as ibn Kathir you claim to also reference said no such thing

Trying to hide your lie?

4.156-162 Maududi - Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
This is in continuation of the theme under discussion.
The calumny against Mary concerning the birth of Jesus has been declared here as "disbelief" because it was not directed against the person of innocent Mary or her son but against Jesus Christ, the Messenger of God. The Jews had absolutely no ground for suspicion about his miraculous birth without father, because God had caused the whole Community to stand as witness to the miracle. When Virgin Mary, who belonged to the noble and well-known religious family of the Israelites, came home with the new-born child, a large crowd gathered there and demanded an explanation from her. But she simply pointed to the child. The crowd could not understand how a child in the cradle could speak, but to their utter astonishment, the child began to speak clearly and fluently and addressing the crowd, he declared, "I am Allah's servant: Allah has given me the Book and made me a Prophet." (Maryam, XIX : 30) Thus Allah cut at the very root of the slander about his birth. That is why none ever accused Mary of fornication nor taunted Jesus with being an illegitimate son until he stained his maturity.But when at the age of thirty, he started his mission to invite the people to the way of God and rebuked the Jews for their evil deeds and exposed the hypocrisies of their scholars and jurists and warned the whole community of the consequences of moral degradation, they turned against him

See highlighted in red

Antilslaam:



3. Are all that was written in Ala Madudi tafsir what to expect in the future when Jesus Christ comes back again?



I have given you many links none of them you click on to read by yourself, is Ala Maududi not part of your islamic scholars? Or because of what he said as it didn't suit your ignorance you kicked against him right?

Do you see reference to Jesus at 30 in Ala-Madudi or pretend to be blind?

Screenshot Ibn Kathir saying a Jesus was brought as a baby to court. Remember to share reference too.

Antilslaam:


Nahnu is still royal we in Arabic, I've told you go and read the history of royal we and stop defending nonsense

Below are the partners of allah as read in Quran, just read and be fine

Quran 37:153 Muhammad Asad
“He has chosen daughters in preference to sons”

Quran 37:153 Wahiduddin Khan
Has He chosen daughters over sons


AND THE DAUGTHERS ARE:

Quran 53:19-21
Have you then considered Lat and ‘Uzza And another, the third, Manat Are the males for you and for Him the females

Usage of the royal we in scripture predates its adoption by monarchies. The scriptural use of plural pronouns by God existed long before the practice was adopted by earthly rulers.

When was Genesis 1:26 written?

Was this not centuries before Christ? You refer to 12th century

Though they had seen this wonderful Sign of Allah, they rejected the Prophethood of Jesus and brought him to the court for crucifixion

Antilslaam:


How many times am I going to show you that? Hope allah has not blindfolded you

A baby speak out even in the cradle that he had been appointed a prophet, they rejected his prophethood and brought him to court for crucifixion

Did you not change though they had seen this wonderful sign to and .....?

I don't blame you. It's your way and those before you.

I asked that you show similar from Ibn Kathir you keep repeating what is said before as ibn Kathir you claim to also reference said no such thing

Trying to hide your lie?

4.156-162 Maududi - Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
This is in continuation of the theme under discussion.
The calumny against Mary concerning the birth of Jesus has been declared here as "disbelief" because it was not directed against the person of innocent Mary or her son but against Jesus Christ, the Messenger of God. The Jews had absolutely no ground for suspicion about his miraculous birth without father, because God had caused the whole Community to stand as witness to the miracle. When Virgin Mary, who belonged to the noble and well-known religious family of the Israelites, came home with the new-born child, a large crowd gathered there and demanded an explanation from her. But she simply pointed to the child. The crowd could not understand how a child in the cradle could speak, but to their utter astonishment, the child began to speak clearly and fluently and addressing the crowd, he declared, "I am Allah's servant: Allah has given me the Book and made me a Prophet." (Maryam, XIX : 30) Thus Allah cut at the very root of the slander about his birth. That is why none ever accused Mary of fornication nor taunted Jesus with being an illegitimate son until he stained his maturity. But when at the age of thirty, he started his mission to invite the people to the way of God and rebuked the Jews for their evil deeds and exposed the hypocrisies of their scholars and jurists and warned the whole community of the consequences of moral degradation, they turned against him

gaskiyamagana:

Moronical interpretation of Kalimat-sh-Shahadah.

Don't mind these cut and join experts of arabic.

Allah refers specifically to the monotheistic God in Islam, emphasizing unity and uniqueness, while Al-ilah is a more general term meaning “the god” or “a god” without specifying monotheism. The two are distinctly different

advocatejare:

You are very dumb. I told you that your mosques minarets have crescent moon at the top but you asked the foolish question that does the Kaaba have the crescent moon.

That is why I’m asking you if the Kaaba is a mosque and if it has minarets


I’ve shown you that the mosque that houses the Kaaba, Masjid Al-haram has crescent moon at the top of its minarets, you can continue your crying with the pictures I’ve shown you!

You are confused.

Is the crescent the sign of Islam, on the mosque or minaret?

Which question are you really pretending to ask?

advocatejare:

So the Muslims using it at the top of their mosques are not Muslims?

Dey play

Hope you enjoy your play?

advocatejare:

Baal is a moon idol, Allah is a moon idol and that is why u put crescent moon at the top of the minarets of your mosques and that is why u put moon on everything you do in Islam ☪️

If Allah is not Baal the moon idol, why is moon the symbol of Islam?

You have been educated that the crescent or moon is neither a sign of Islam or part of the requirement for a mosque?

Perhaps you will turn your attention to the clocks above which the crescent lies on the minarets.

Does Minaret seem like a mosque or your desperation to lie and slander the truth.