Deep Sight:

I am surprised you do not see implicit in your own words the very evidence for the fact that i could not exist by chance.

That is not the point. The analogy you were trying to make about the design of the square shape is defective. That is what I was aiming at. You analogy was meant to suggest that because something has an almost zero probability it cannot happen. I an saying that that is a VERY wrongheadedway of thinking, because many things happen all the time that have near zero probabilities.

Deep Sight:

I hope you realize the implications of your statement. The implication is that if there were no Human Laws against such things as murder, there would be nothing wrong with murder, rape, etc.

I take a different view: namely that there is something inherently wrong about such things, human laws notwithstanding.

Otherwise on what grounds would you condemn Paedophilia in Islam? What makes it wrong (since their Human Laws permit it?)

Let me bring my legal background to bear on this.

There are two types of crimes in legal philosophy (Jurisprudence).

There is "Mala in se" and "Mala prohibita".

"Mala in se" refers to things that are inherently evil: e.g: murder.

"Mala prohibita" refers to things that are only wrong because the law says so: e.g: parking your car in the wrong place on a street.

Does this make some sense to you? I want a point by point response.

I need you to affirm to me that in your view, if there is no secular law against eating your son or daughter, then there would be nothing wrong with such an act.

OK, consider the following scenarios;

1) A little toddler, about 2 years old, walks into your living room and picks up one of your prized books and rips to shreds.

2) I, a 40 year old, walks into your same living room, picks up your prized book and tears it to shreds.



A) Did the toddler commit a crime, offense, sin, or nothing? Yes or NO and state WHY in each case.

B) Did I commit a crime, offence, sin, or nothing? Yes or NO and WHY in each case.


Which of the above situation could be actionable in a court of law and why?

Could God have instantiated a world WITHOUT sin?

&

Is God going to bring about a time WITHOUT SIN?

Deep Sight:

Really Huxley? So you mean that there are no things which are inherently and naturally wrong. Such as Genocide?

The holocaust was okay, in your view, and so was the 9/11 bombing of the WTC?

If these things are wrong, what makes them wrong?

1. Human Laws

2. Natural Law (any thing anti-nature or anti-life)

These thinsg are NOT sins, but they are CRIMES. BIG different.

SIN is a theological concepts whose referent is a God.

CRIME is a secular concept whose referent is humankind.

What happened to the original poster of this thread? Why does he not come here and feeeeel the heat?

OR is he maskerading as some other poster?

noetic4:

@ huxley dishonesty/lying is annoying . . , .check out the prophecies about Jesus.

@ maaje
did u read my response at all?

What prophecies of Jesus and how are they fulfilled? There are none.

Deep Sight:

Let's look at it this way.

You have in your hand a clump of fifty pebbles.

You begin to throw them all on the floor such that they form random patterns on the ground. Such as these dots below.
. .     .  .  
.  .  ,     .
.  .   . .  .
  ,   . .  .  
.   .  .

You gather the pebbles and fling them on the floor over and over again, endlessly. They continue to form scattered random patterns of any description.

I realized this morning, that even if you fling those pebbles on the floor a  zilliion zillion times, you will never, not in all eternity, have them form something like this:

 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 .                         .
 .                         .
 .                         .
 .                         .
 .                         .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And yet this is a fairly simple pattern. But it evinces great linear order, precision and structure. If you think this is a wrong argument, you try spending the rest of your life throwing pebbles randomly on the floor. If you ever come up with the square above, i will either give you $200, 000 or have you arrested as a con artist.

You will never get the square above.

This is why very complex patterns which show particular hallmarks of linear design, can scarcely be attributed to chance.

Deep Sight,

Your arguments are so elementary, it is painful to see anyone make them. Mathemetically, there is a finite probability of form the square pattern, but it is so small as to be negligible. As long as the probability is not identical to ZERO, there is still a chance that it could happen. There are many billions of things with very very very small probabilities that happen all the time. Consider this for a start.

What is the probability of exactly you existing, or being born, amongst all the various combinations of eggs and sperms that could have happened? If the egg had been fertilised by a different sperm, someone else, not YOU would have resulted. Now compound that backwards thru all generation of your grandparents on both sides of your family. You soon see that this is nearly ZERO. In short;

THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER YOU AGAIN
But does that mean that you do not now exist?

You will also never form a pattern like this:

. , . , ,
. , , . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .

. , , . .
, ,

. .

Shola2009:

My goodness! you are a lost cause, your brain particles have evaporated into the atmosphere, let me make something clear,
Ive met  ppl,from diffreent places with differnt believes, i even have buddies that don't believe in God, i feel everyone has the right to believe what hey want to.

but the fact that u came here, ("bleating like a diseased donkey"-mrCracles,2009) pissed me off, but i cant be angry anymore, becos its too late for you!

Then shut up and take your empty head and go away. Are you being forced to stay here?

Shola2009:

Ok your not a fool, i take it back,




Your a Beast!!!!

[size=18pt]im defending my God,hw can i go to hell for doing what is right?
[/size]
did u go to primary school?? u village headmaster, your acting like you know something when your brain has already turn to dust!

You are really a savage in sheep's clothing. You are the type who would go out and kill in the name of you god, like many millions of Christians have done in the past. Keep of the GOOD work, savage.

Shola2009:

Ok your not a fool, i take it back,




Your a Beast!!!!

im defending my God,hw can i go to hell for doing what is right?

did u go to primary school?? u village headmaster, your acting like you know something when your brain has already turn to dust!

Shows that if it was not for this religion thing these people would be savages.

Shola2009:

[size=18pt]Ok your not a fool, i take it back,
[/size]



Your a Beast!!!!

im defending my God,hw can i go to hell for doing what is right?

did u go to primary school?? u village headmaster, your acting like you know something when your brain has already turn to dust!

Woona seeeeeeeeyam oooooooooooooooooooooooh.


LOL, LOL, LOL


You di fear your lass go roast for hell?

Shola2009,

Hope that be a lesson to you for attempting to take me on, bonehead.

Shola2009,

Where are you?  Did  Matt 5: 22 shut you up?         I bet you are regretting calling me a fool now. All the "work" you have been doing for Jesus is now in vain as you head towards hell for eternal roasting.

Shola2009:

You're just a fool! a big one for that matter!! your post made not one bit of sense, which implies that the maggot your habouring.have almost finished decaying your brain!! you better go to the hospital before all of it is gone, and you become a vegetable!

You will burn in hell for repeatedly calling me a fool, as Jesus said, Matt 5;


21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.



See how hypocritical you are?   You don't even following the rules of your defunct leader.

Shola2009:

well,i would have,but unfortunately,my brain is not habouring maggots like urs!

This is a non sequitur. Just the ideal proof that your brain is gone. Thank goodness you yourself provided proof positive of what religions does to the mind.

Shola2009:

No, u fool!! its something you should have been wearing for a long time, don't forget the muzzle

Why don't you try and see if it works?

Shola2009:

Look at this buffon/mugu/very stupid idiot!! you wild animal! you clearly need a nozzle and stray-jacket!

Stray-jacket? What is that? Did you mean the sort of thing that Christians used to shackle people with?

noetic4:

your answer to that question, answers your concern. . .so did u come across events orchestrated by prophecy in the bible?

No I never saw a prophecy fulfilled in the Bible!

Anders Branderud,

I suspect you have been posting in a different name. CAn you reveal yourself now, please?

noetic4:

so did u or did u not come across events that were orchestrated by the words of prophecy?

What has that got to do with the question I asked?


Can god bring about ANY state of affairs? Could God have made it so that I did not log in today? Was it God who made it so that Obama became president of USA? Was it God who actualised Abacha's rise to power in Nigeria?

noetic4:

how often do u read the bible?

v often

Can God bring about [b]any [/b]state of affairs?

noetic4:

1. God's will is a blue print for events . , , like God every man has a will . . .man's will is largely undefined.

2. God's will was manifested in the garden of Eden. A world/Garden without sin, suffering, poverty, lack, shame, neglect or any other inhuman vices we experience in Todays world.
God's world is largely defined by dominion. . . man had dominion over all.

3. is sin the will of God? this a very foolish question. . . . . .it shows that the questioner has no idea of what sin means.
You commit a sin when u transgress against the LAWS of God. So when God says "sit down" but u choose to stand. . .u have sinned, , . why then should u not face the consequences?

4. is suffering the will of God? , . . . . .another ignorant question. Suffering is part of the package u get outside the world/will/place of God/dominion. Just like evil is the absence of God, as darkness is the absence of Light, so is suffering, evil, indecency and other calamities the absence of God's world and inherent dominion.

5. how can something happen against God's will?. . . .another ridiculous question. . . . . .God DOES NOT predestine the actions of man. . .did God decide for u whether u would log in today or not?. . .u chose from your own free will to log in. , . so did u choose from your free will to reject Jesus. . my only concern is can u afford to rot in hell?

Could God have brought about a state of affairs, in keeping with his will, that I don't log in today?

What is God's Will? Can God have a will that is not actualisable? What else does God have to do to make his will come to pass?

Some Christians argue that it was not God's will for Sin and Suffering to enter into his creation. If this was not his will, how did this come about then? If it was not his will, presumably, he would have known that it was not his will. So how can something happen that is against God's will?

Watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7e9vnwTjJA&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXOEAz46vMk&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLV4zjfwQxY&feature=related

Shola2009:

Huxley! This is not a website where you come to display your babaric and animalistic traits! please, keep your thoughts to yourself!

Why don't you try and answer the questions that this post poses, silly, deluded and ignorant, religions soaked butter of a brain.

Just watch and listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkOuHJ49UCg&feature=rec-HM-r2

noetic4:

what was the source of these simple minerals and amino acids?

These were created by the natural processes of the universe, such as supernovae, etc, etc, which creates elements, which aggregate into compounds, which aggregate into amino acids, etc, etc.

noetic4:

I can hardly make sense of the post above in view of my primordial response. . . .so help me here. . .[B]CAN U DEFINE SIN IN ONE SENTENCE?. . .WHAT IS SIN?[/B]

Sin - is a meanless word in my worldview. But in the theistic worldview, it is a contravention of god's will.

1) First he carelessly create a world in which he ensure there is the capability to sin.

2) Some beings in heaven exploit this weakness that god designed in his creation and started sinning like hell.

3) He gets mad at these beings and he kicks them out of heaven, rather than squashing them and their sin dead once and for all.

4) He sends then out of heaven into the space of the universe, knowing that these sinful beings are going to one day torment the beloved creatures that he planned to create.

5) Then he create his beloved humans in this hostile environment replete with the possibility and temptation of sin.

6) He does not give these humans the ultimate resistance to fight off sin, but makes them vulnerable to sin.

7) As weak as they are, these humans succumb to the inevitable, and they sin.

8.) What he expect? Did he know that they were gonna sin?

9) He gets angry and punishes them

10) Humans carry on sinning like hell

11) He wipes out the entire population of Sodom & Gomorah, hoping to wipe out sin in these places, but fails miserably

12) Humans carry on sinning like hell.

13) In his wisdom, he decides to wipe out the ENTIRE population of the earth save Noah's and his family (less than 20 people in total).

14) Starts a brand new generation of people with Noah and his family, dumbskulledly thinking that this time he had dealt with sin for good.

15) Guess what - he still has not deal with sin, and sin returns as if nothing at all had happened.

16) To this day, we are here still sinning away like we are in hell.

[size=18pt]
Is this not the track record of a bumbling incompetent fart?
[/size]