Zahra29:
Just saw this article and thought I'd share because it's often taken for granted how "generous" the UK's immigration system is, in a lot of ways, compared to other countries.

Hehe.. You've taken it upon yourself at each point to expose the generosity of the UK immigration system. Its like telling apartheid SA to accept the generosity because indigenous groups elsewhere saw worse. In a race to the bottom, there are no shortage of nations who treat migrants worse to compare with.

Also remember the better nations. I from the comfort of my home in the UK applied for and was given a Canadian PR - same thing that took me 5 years of good behaviour and taxation to achieve in the UK. What's strinking is that CAN is a wealthier nation per head with better growth potential. Ultimately, migration is a game of need, not generosity

IridescentAge:


Yeah I'd agree with this. How else would Australia or Canada have been populated in the first place?

.....

But in the days of the British Empire migration was encouraged willy nilly. South Asians would move to East Africa - Kenya, Uganda, Brits would move to Australia or Canada or Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. There was technically complete free movement around the Empire/Commonwealth up until 1962. Obviously it was a lot less feasible technically.

For the bolded... its the first time I've heard that excuse being used. Wonder if you'd tell an Indigenous Australian that.

Migration was encouraged for certain groups into certain places. South Africa had millions come in. I don't see the many black people that were encouraged to freely migrate to Australia, Canada, UK e.t.c.

History isn't kind. The more I learn about history, the more unapologetic about migration I become.

justwise:
We don't have to repay UK for axed deal - Rwanda

Sure they shouldn't.

When I heard it was scrapped the first thing that hit me was 'subsidy is gone' by our dearest BAT. Might have been better to get an inside grasp first. I hope it doesn't come to bite them and sincerely hope they are able to 'smash the gangs'

Gerhards:



Can those people who fall in this category of gay nonsense relocate to Europe or U.S permanently, it's never going to work in Africa

Lol.. never be so sure. Today, you speak English and likely believe that all your ancestors that existed before the coming of Christianity or Islam are in hell.

The only way Africa would escape the increasing pressure to do what it does not want to is by growing its economy and avoiding stvpid debt. If we keep borrowing from the west, its only a matter of time that we would be unable to pay back. Options may be to face severe economic difficulty or agreee to certain unwanted terms. This might have already happened if not for the rise of China providing international competition to the west.

The salary structure in this country perpetuates poverty.

Why should an NCO that has put in over 20 years in the military (manytimes with a family) with all the transfers and risks involved be on less than 100k? Where does experience and years of service sit?

There should be a good overlap between higher ranked NCO and COs. I see no reason why a warrant officer can't earn as much as a lieutenant colonel. These are very experienced folks with good education many of whom were only unfortunate to be from poor families and hence didn't have the 'legs' to get into the NDA

Also, the pay appreciation with the higher ranked COs is too much in comparison to lower ranks.

For starters, no rank should be more than 10x that of a private. If a private or LC is on 50-60k, then a general should not be on more than 600k. Take the UK for example. A general earns grossly about 6x that of a private. Guess what? That General would end up paying relatively more tax so his take home would be about 3-4x that of lower ranked NCOs. Thats how to adress poverty and make sure higher ranked officers are concerned about the living condition of lower ranked colleagues.

MayCar:


Thanks for the advise, on the long run, they realize without the money in question, the amount in the account is enough so they just let it go, thankfully

Kudos! Remember to come and testify once completed

Oladepo812:
Good morning colleagues.
Please I need an advice on the best route to retain my stay in the UK. I'm a student with my program coming to completion in September, while my visa expires in Jan 2025.
I'm actually thinking of post study work visa(PSWV) for a family of 4, but my fear is after this PSWV, what next? As I'm aware that most companies don't want to sponsor even after the so called PSWV.
I've lots of experience in my field but I think the companies are mostly concerned about the sponsorship.
Please what is the best thing for me to do as I've run out of ideas?
Thanks.

There's still time and it's difficult to say what would be the prevailing climate after your PSW. It's likely labour would be tight with immigration until forced by the economy.
It also depends on your field/course. There are exemptions for NHS roles and certain teachers are sought after so you or your spouse could target those.

The main issue is that with a family of 4, any visa application na big money hence why you appear worried

crypticTrey:
Good morning house
Please I kind of need an advice from y’all in the Uk
I’m a software developer (mobile app developer) in Nigeria with two years of experience and I currently earn about 500k.
I started making plans on coming to the Uk via study route and I’m currently in the stage of applying for my visa. I have been very optimistic about this but last night I spent a long time thinking about it as I’m really worried about the situation I read about the Uk and where they stand with immigration.

I have been following this thread for months to understand what it’s like over there and I really hope I get a response. Thanks in advance 🙏🏾

There's lots of uncertainty with the recent change and its difficulttosay how things would pan out. However, the current pay treshold for work visas are quite steep. Needed IT skills pay well but I it's highly competitive. It's worth reaching out to tech folks already in the UK to weigh different routes available.

If coming for a masters program, it should definitely be one that'd align with your skills and boost your chances of getting a good job afterwards. You might be able to pick up remote jobs during your masters

Also worth exploring Canada as it has an tech route for express entry and Can/USA pays quite well for IT. With good cash reserves, both routes don't have to be mutually exclusive. You can still go for a masters and apply for express entry anytime from now till PSW.

walenden:


But some people heartless in Canada. My brother was supposed to pay rent by June 30, and we're still trying to arrange the money to send to him as he's not working yet. Yesterday, July 7, his roommate threw him out and rented the room to another person who will move in the next day, in a shared bedroom... just a 7-day rent delay. That's terrible!!

Hehe... you call 7 days 'just'? What would you then consider a good delay... 6 months?
Perhaps, the roommate may have seen the signs and sensed that this would be an unending occurrence.

Hope he gets a place soon.

MayCar:



Thank you, they did give me the option of treating each person as a giftor but the requirements is too much. Just wondering if u could just change solicitors at this point

What requirements do they need from each person?

If you're looking at a really big sum, chances are you might run into thesame issue with another solicitor. Also, you might already have incured some bills with your current solicitor. Worth asking or looking around to see if you encounter people who got a reasonably different approach by switching solicitors.

Ticha:
Full meter shebang - re-wiring has been quoted at £11k. Abi make I go do electrician instead? 🤪🤪

Hehe... no be small work get u. Kudos

All this skill no suppose finish for one house. After building a capable team, you may as well leverage the knowledge into doer-uppers.

Arostar2023:


Imagine if people were not doing this. Full blown evil and wickedness is kept at bay in Nigeria by true believers who still believe in prayes, good deeds and God. And from a medical standpoint, do know the relief and hope people receive by praying and visiting these religious centers? And by the way, how psychiatric hospitals do we have in Nigeria? How many people can afford to visit and pay a psychiatrist for mental health?

No need to imagine. We can look around the world and see countries who have made good progress and ask how many of them have a good chunk of their citizens doing such?

How does the UK, China, Singapore keep evil at bay? Those countries dont have thousands of their citizens being killed by ragtag millitants monthly.

Yes, visiting religious centres give many hope which is manytimes false. Its does more harm by stopping them from seeing the reality. If a good chunk of our many religious houses were factories, we'd be in a better position today irrespective of if we believed in God or not. In thesame vein, it does not matter how much prayers Nigerian offer, if we do not start building our economy, poverty and 'evil' would keep growing.

Arostar2023:
Most of the people here lamenting would not hesitate to seek unconventional solutions to their problems, If need arises. But here they are criticising people that are desperate for change. People that have lost hope in the government and society at large. People that rightly believed that Jesus is the answer to their problems. Abeg make una leave them alone.

If doing this was the solution, Nigeria would not be in a sorry state today

ObalendeCMS:
Delta women/wives can be very stubborn!

I think she deserves it!

Why did he not start by beating his fellow men?
You are a disgrace

Richtaiwo:
Headless mobs don't give a damn about the rot in their backyard. They are more interested in what happens in far away kano kaduna ogun Osun etc. And to think those are the places they troop to in masses to earn their living makes it very amusing. If this were to be in lagos, the uncouth unintelligent clowns will keep screaming Tinubu as usual. But now, they will rather attempt to isolate that agulu criminal from this corruption of the highest order.

What do your senseless ramblings have to do with something which is a national issue?
I expect every local government, state and federal agency to conduct such screening at regular intervals. Its a longterm issue that needs addressing not bigotry.

What kind of dinosaur 🦕 is this?
Just look at the dashboard- even cars released in 2000- 2010 look better.

HeatSeeker:


He is a Muslim. He is permitted to marry more than one wife, and also enforce discipline in his household. He should request to be tried according to Islamic law, the case will be quashed and thrown out the window.

Lol.. Nigeria is not an Islamic state. Our constitution is not the shariah. The judiciary should use this case an as example to show that there is no excuse for domestic assault.

Just imagine.

More annoying is that these attacks seem to be part of a wider attempt at systematic ethnic cleansing. In Kaduna, its mainly southern parts that are more affected

Antoeni:
Ladies f you are not ready to be LOYAL AND SUBMISSIVE to a man, stay single and be m!ser@ble.

If a man can't tell you what to do, stay in your father's house and suffer with a Love Machine every night for the rest of your life

Being single does not equate to being miserable. There are loads of miserable families in Nigeria.

Women are not your punching bag. If you want to feel 'alpha' you start with fellow men

I cannot understand how Nigeria - a poor nation, is able to pay its politicians far higher than the rich western nations. This is their legal pay aside the sum they steal.
It's the reason why I laugh when folks advise people not to japa because of 'tax/bills'. As a Nigerian arriving the west, the first thing is to understand their social and tax system

Take the UK for example, the take home basic pay for an MP (equivalent of a senator) is not more than 3x the basic pay of any minimum wage worker. That's the reason why our politicians become so humble when they are in the west.

First snapshot is for a minimum wage worker on 40hrs/wk. Second is for an MP

NOETHNICITY:
As far as I am concerned that little color on her face is a sign of just one slap, and that’s nothing.

Read what you wrote and understand you are a disgrace. Very soon your lot would start insulting Nigerian women

Akalia:
But the woman must had provoked the man in the first place. The man was provoked to violence, he is not to blame.

Rubbish! He deserves to face the full wrath of the law.

When next its time for folks like him to insult our Nigerian ladies, they'd remember his plight.

essentialone:
Apart from sleeping with men, what else can a lady do to own Billions?

You need to see the world outside your view. If all the women you know and those in your family make money by sleeping with men, then you should understand it could be the opposite in other families.

Home and abroad, Nigeria has many successful ladies many of whom support and even fully cater for their families.
The answer is simple- same thing a man would do

CharleyBright:


No country has ever increase salary above 200%.
Labour Union are demanding over 700% salary increment. That's crazy and will ruin the economy.
The countries you talk about increase in small percentages of 20 - 50 %. That way the increment won't have adverse effects on the economy

Those countries increase yearly - yes in small aliquots and despite being very rich nations with relatively high minimum wage, the pay of their political class is very tapered when compared to ours.

The UK for example, the basic take home pay of an MP (equivalent to a senator) is about 3x that of someone on minimum wage. In Nigerian terms, it would mean a senators basic pay being 90k. You can now see why minimum wage is taken seriously there and thir citizens are not in poverty.

If the Nigerian government wants to fight inflation, they should start with themselves.

CharleyBright:


Minimum wage ease which pressure?
Did you attend Economics class at all?
What did they teach you about demand (more money) push inflation?
Make them pay new minimum wage and see how demand for all items will increase and push prices of these items upwards.
We are in deep trouble caused by Tinubu.
Nigerians should catch Tinubu and line up and give him a knock on the head each to reset that his useless Emilokan brain.

So what happens in western nations that for decades increase their minimum wage annually- in line with inflation?

Are you advocating that Nigerians should become poorer of maybe we reduce our minimum wage to 8,500 to fight inflation?

As the government posits it needs to cut spending to inflation, they should start with themselves. The exorbitant expenditure and thefy if the executive and legislative are of government is a main driver

Goodenoch:


"Not quite as popular".

There is no ego to be had here.. just facts. It'd interest you to know that the percentage of British emigrants as a percentage of total population has for a very long time exceeded the corresponding ratio of Nigerian emigrants. Infact, positive net migration in the UK has only been a relatively recent phenomenon. Migration is as old as man and exists in every society with constantly changing trends. Even after we're far gone, migration would still continue.

missjekyll:
This just out.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/30/the-baby-bust-how-britains-falling-birthrate-is-creating-alarm-in-the-economy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Interesting read. I find all the comparisons to Japan a good pointer. It's as though western nations are closely following and telling themselves: we don't want to go there.. I also see state school kids are dropping. There'd be enough room for kids of your friends leaving private schools afterall.. hehe

So far, virtually no nation has been able to reverse declining birth rates. It doesn't help that the social net in the West is more of a ponzi scheme needing more new entrants, plus the part that older folks who paid in relatively little for short periods want an increasingly larger pie for longer periods they now live thanks to modern science. At some point, an equilibrium would be reached but no one knows what that'd look like. Perhaps many 'rainbow' nations.

One other thing is the chatter about carers and their net contribution. A previous post highlighted the many ways care workers with families contribute prospectively. An additional way is to look at it retrospectively and see what it'd cost Britain with a falling population to source its care workers locally.
First, people have to be incentivised to have more kids, then maternity and paternity pay for parents, pay for that childs nursery, education, health and sometimes housing. This is the best case scenario as costs might be much higher if citizens have health issues. At the end of the day, you have an adult ready to work in care but whom the government has spent over 150k on already. Given low pay, that adult might still need ongoing government support with housing. If they are off-sick e.t.c, govt has to support.
Now compare that with an adult immigrant that costs the government zero. Even before the immigrant starts working, the nation is already reaping benefits by way of visa fees and the country is sure of 5 years of solid hard work without benefits plus a handsome ILR+citizenship cheque submitted at the end. Moreso, the govt sometimes uses them to subsidise pay that'd otherwise have been higher. A similar scenario happened in nursing with the govt even going on to scrap local bursaries. It becomes quite clear why western leaders tilt towards immigration when the seek growth. It's benefits when done well are tremendous.

Goodenoch:

..

Permanent emigration is not quite as popular and embedded in the public psyche among Brits as it is among people from certain other countries. It's the rare exception rather than the norm.
..

All forms of migration especially permanent migration is very much a part of both past and contemporary British culture. Yeah, times change but its mainly the perception and reporting that differ. When Brits/certain Europeans migrate, they see it as their right. When black folks migrate, its pictured as a privilege.

Even on here, mention of Nigerians relocating the UK is christened as 'folks in search of utopia'. Meanwhile, you'd hear words like explorer, risk taker, yolo, expat et.c being used to describe hundreds of thousands of Brits who emigrate yearly.

babajeje123:

Went to a church last Sunday for the first time and that was the stupid question their pastor asked me after greetings.
Him: bla bla bla, when are you going back to Nigeria?
Me: (snaps) I don't know
A black British for that matter! Probably was privileged to be born here by black immigrants.

Lol. Na to ask am same question too na

Another one I get is I hope you don't mind asking where youre from? Once I guage the purpose of the question, My reply is sometimes stating the town I live in. Some get it and keep shut. Manytimes, I reply 'I'm from Scotland'. Looking confused perhaps thinking I didn't hear them, they're like no, I mean where you're actually from and I reply again 'Scotland or do you have a problem with that'? Responses are in the line of hmmm... ok.. na there useless question dey end.
It's funny how microagrressions fizzle out once properly challenged.

I once told one being, I've never met an American who is not an immigrant given I've never met a Native American. Same apllies to Aus

Occasionally, I encounter those reasonably curious and if I have the time, I engage

[quote author=Zahra29 post=130729259]

Lol, we can all agree that it was a very relaxed route, yes?

It was a route that highlighted the shortsightedness of Brexit and the desperation of the UK government to seek oversees labour to fill gaps rather than let wages rise and the govt/populace pay up as they had promised voters

And this is in part because to the answer to your first question;
1. Yes the UK needs immigrants. Every country does to an extent, even Nigeria to replace the vast numbers of professionals leaving the country.

Where we tend to disagree is that every country has the sovereign right to determine if and how many immigrants it wants to allow in. Even if they have a declining native birth rate, it's still their decision. You can't force them to open their borders more than they want to in order to accommodate migrants (not refugees) who want to come in.

Perhaps you're mistaken. I've never questioned that 'right'. What I've done is discuss immigration policies, drivers and resultant effects. Nigeria adds over 4 million people yearly. Without immigration, the UK populace would be in decline. What Nigeria mainly needs is to upskill its populace

2. It's very difficult to estimate. I don't think any country has managed to pin it down to an exact number. What most countries do is open the tap when they need immigrant workforce and then close it when they've had enough.

You should also realise that skilled workers (which is the main group of immigrants referenced on this thread) represent only a fraction of UK immigrants. There is a significant number of immigrants on the family route, for example the spouses of British citizens, who also plug labour shortages and on average pay even more to the government in visa fees - also without any recourse to public funds.

Statistics doesn't work that way. Just like with life expectancy e.t.c trends can be followed. The US has a cap on certain visas, canada last year outlined how many PRs they hope to issue per year till 2026.
What I had expected the UK govt to do is to institute an independent advisory panel that advises what estimated net migration numbers are needed by the economy to keep afloat and where these numbers are mostly needed and what percentage should be for work visas. This should be done protectively taking lots of economic variables into account. Parties can then campaign based of that. If we had such in place, it'd have been obvious that the net migration from the EU wasn't horrendous. It'd have been obvious that the care industry would struggle post-Brexit.
I'd say 300k - 500k net are needed yearly. Govt officials know this but are too timid to relay this to voters

Zahra29:


Try to read before commenting.

Generous was used in the context that the care visa route was very relaxed and had low barriers of entry compared to other work visa or family routes.

Lol... Zahra.. I agree see it's been a true demonstration of British benevolence.

Stop the back and forth and let me ask.

1. Does the UK need immigrants?
2. If yes, given current realities, what number of immigrants do you estimate the UK needs annually to maintain a stable economy?

LionInZion:


On student visa, the record is there for everyone to see that the highest student to dependent ratio was 5:1. Yet this time last year, many folks including those in the media, who should know better, went about it as if student dependents have taken over the whole of the country and were the cause of all infrastructural and economic problems facing the country. Then it's all about narrative and agenda.

It's very difficult to change a narrative once the media has latched unto it. Look at Rishi. How was the IHS fee introduced? If I'm not mistaken, someone on a visiting visa gave birth in an NHS hospital and left. The narrative was so driven that those on work visas were now made to pay an extra levy including those working in the NHS until the covid experience challenged the folly.

A part of me wanted them to go on and end the psw visa as had been suggested but for new entrants only. So when reality hits in a few years, it's back to chasing tails and they can learn once more that for many, a british masters cert is only worth the migration advantage it offers.

LionInZion:


... I'll resist the urge to go into the argument on whether that route was based on generosity or not, because that's another subjective point that can be open to multiple interpretations.

Lol... I no even see that one. Generosity indeed. Reminds me of a white Southafrican I met who described how the apartheid regime were 'generous' in handing over power to Mandela in 94. Perhaps he was comparing their 'benevolence' to what the relatives of his forebearers did to indigenous populations in the U.S or Aus.

As entitled and ignorant as that word sounds, a fair portion of the populace still thinks same. Its why as a country, were yet to get past the first question i.e do we need immigrants ?