9ja kids are beta!

You are entitled to your opinion.

Ynwa

Some of these property developers need an education on how 2 choose d name of your project?

How can u call a project "snake island"?

Hiya Hakir!

Thx 4 d update on Abj.

Keep it comin!

Tgirl4real:

Lol.
Thanx Man. I'll let u knw my decision sn.
Mukina. I no get ur time nw. I'm on mobile ryt nw. It wont be lng before i fish out ur secret. Lol.

Gamine, i dn laf tire. I thnk i nd that smackn because am thinkn of changn color.

When will that be? When you are in the same position as Tottenham?

Tgirl4real:

Can someone give me a good reason why i should remain a blue for life?

I need encouragement plz

Do you want to hear the real truth?

Don't change clubs simply coz your team lost. The true worth of a genuine supporter is when their teams go through crisis and they stay with them through thick and thin.

I am a Liverpool supporter and I've been supporting Liverpool thru thick and thin, rain, sunshine, snow, harmattan, gale force, hail stone, no matter.

I hope this helps.

Eastbay:


And Joe Lasisi v Okorodudu:likly to come from Sauron's leaky mouth.
Sorry I haven't compiled a proper list, just my random thoughts

Easy Bay, now why did you have to go there? Don't worry we'll come to the Naija list later. I seriously hope to be amused and entertained with the list I'll see containing Hogan "one blow 7 die" Jimoh, Obele Anazor, Fighting Romanus, Siki Panther, etc,

Alas, I digress slightly. yes, I agree with you that Hagler v Hearns was brutal over 3 rounds, but that was it. It was too short. Great fight though. I wouldn't rate Hagler v Leonard as a great fight though, simply because Leonard spent most of the night on his[i] bike.[/i] He used his stick well though.

I watched the fight on two or three occasions, and I equally don't believe the decision belonged to Leonard when I scored the fight. The only reason Sugar Ray probably sneaked it was due to flashes of showboating, the bolo punch, the jab and run tactics that made an infuriated Hagler suddenly look old on the night.

Regardless, he shouldn't have allowed Sugar Ray to dance all night. He should have[b] cut off the ring [/b](I am sure you understood all the terminology I've been using unlike some peeps that might be wondering if I meant he needed to use a scissors to do that (nobi aso ebi o) and that includes "bike" and "stick" - nobi weapons of warfare o ) like he did against Hearns.

Anyway, I look forward to your list.

Ibime,

You have a point there regarding the Gatti v Ward fight. In equal measure, one could also have added Ali v Norton - a fight a which Ali sustained a broken jaw.

I'd still like to see your top ten list of great fights though.

Great result for Liverpool

It is so comforting to see that all the other premiership teams are looking up to us.

YNWA

@Easy Bay, Kay, A-40 (and hey, where is Ibime?)

You guys have time o, continuing with this unproductive debate that is going no where fast. Please let's move on.

Kay listed some super bouts in his posts that brought back memories. So I felt we could do a list of 10 ten super bouts of our choice. We can then inter-mix them and agree on a final 10 ten list. Peeps, don't be surprised to see Joe Lasisi v Jerry Okorodudu cropping up in some people's list.  (Hope you catch my drift)

Ok, here goes,


1.  Sugar Ray Leonard v Roberto Duran (1)

2.  Larry Holmes v Ken Norton (the last round alone - the 15th made this fight great - check youtube)

3.  Alexis Arguello v Aaron Pryor (1)

4.  Muhammad Ali v Joe Frasier (3)

5.  Wilfredo Gomez v Lupe Pintor (phew! Talk about all bang action for 14 straight rounds between two boxing greats)

6.  Sugar Ray Robinson v Carmen Bassillo (2)

7.  Antonio Barrera v Eric Morales (3)

8.  Marvin Hagler v John Mugabi

9.  Evander Holyfield v Riddock Bowe (1)

10. Salvador Sanchez v Azumah Nelson

I look forward to your list guys. Once we're done, we can then revert to the top then fights in Nigeria in the 70's to the early part of the 90's.

To nail this discussion once and for all, I have done the homework that I expected the pro-Tyson supporters to do. I googled this question - Could Ali have beaten Tyson? See, it wasn’t that hard.

I randomly picked these websites from the top ten sites.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/107747
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-28856.html
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-news/samuels3012.php
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081022153316AAf9qEg

www.dailycampus.com/media/storage/paper340/news/2007/09/05/Sports/Could.Mike.Tyson.Beat.Muhammad.Ali-2950997.shtml">http://media.www.dailycampus.com/media/storage/paper340/news/2007/09/05/Sports/Could.Mike.Tyson.Beat.Muhammad.Ali-2950997.shtml

I paticularly loved this comment.

Ali was the greatest heavyweight that ever lived, and that's the end of the discussion. If Ali was to play in the NBA, Mike Tyson would be playing for the Connecticut Sun in the WNBA

Finally, this website did it for me. It said it all.

http://dmboxing.com/WordPress/?p=175


Please thoroughly read and digest the viewpoint of a boxing historian with 48 years experience as well as the viewpoints of 5 boxing experts, notable amongst them was the late great Eddie Futch - arguably regarded as the greatest boxing coach and tactician in boxing history.

First let me say that it is always a pleasure to write what I have seen in my 48 years of following boxing as a sport I deeply love. I have seen every heavyweight champion fight, either by living during his era, by film or by speaking with individuals who actually saw these champions fight, even at the turn of the 20th century. I respect everyone’s opinions and, of course, have mine to tell after having studied this very subject, giving a great degree of research on my part.


In this article, I am adding something very unique. I have polled five top authorities in boxing, all whom are friends of mine, to get their opinions and asked them how Mike Tyson would have fared against Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes, being that these three have been more visible to the average boxing fan of today than past fighters such as Marciano, Louis, Dempsey, Tunney, and Johnson. I also am including a Web site fan entry and a special feature from the late Eddie Futch. So in no particular order, here are their quoted opinions:

And it is looking increasingly likely too. It was as if the writers of "24" knew this day was going to come as well by casting "David Palmer" as the president.

In Barack Obama's case, he was destined for this moment. His birth was not an accident. He had a real purpose in life. And he is just about to realise that purpose. Even an avanlanche of cobwebs cannot prevent an elephant from trudging on.

Here is to your victory in advance, President Barak Obama. The first African- American president.

ps: Certain people may not like the fact that you are in the white house sir. Thank God, it's a free country. They are free to leave the country if they decide to, just like white folks move out of an area if it is being populated by black people.

And since you have the power of discretion at your hands sir, you may decide to paint the white house "black" (just for a laugh lasting only a few hours). ha, ha haha,

Now that will really really make your opponents aggressively angry. Baba McCain might need someone to support him so that he doesn't pass out if that happens.

Happy to come on this thread to announce that I am a true red.

Like fellow kops, I sincerely hope this is our season to make it number 19.

YNWA

Eastbay:

Next Level,
Thanks man.
You ain't no slouch yourself.
Tyson's victims,as you listed,were just jobbers,basically.The only one guy he could have claimed to have any credibility at all (Holmes) came out of a two-year retirement after he got pissed with being robbed by his losses to Spinks.

Dayokanu once mentioned that Tyson beat Spinks who beat Ali.
He doesn't even have his facts right. How can we argue with such a person?
Saroun talks like he just got excited about boxing because of Samuel Peter.
We CANNOT compare the eras of Tyson and Ali,because the guys in Ali's era were credible,fearsome and good.Foreman whipped Frazier like a dog before the Rumble;yet this same Frazier provided the Thriller in Manilla wih Ali.The point is, the guys in that era were good enough to bounce back from a heavy loss, unlike those in Tyson's era.Michael Spinks,Tucker,Bonecrusher,Berbick,Pinklin Thomas,Tubbs, the list goes on, which of those guys came back to have anything even resembling a career?
Then there were the beatings.Ali struggled with faster opponents:Norton,Leon Spinks,but he always found a way to win.
Tyson struggled with nobodies,and when he got caught,he looked like a clueless idiot.The only credible guys he fought:Evander,Lewis schooled the brute and made him look silly.

Thanks Easy Bay, I graciously accept the compliment.

As some people may or may not know, they will always notice a marked difference when people are discussing any issue. It's either one is way off the mark and has no clue and only wants to make a contribution or the two are on the same plane but only differ on minute details. And that is the only reason an argument or debate is fully sustained by the latter group.

Facts are one thing that no matter how contrived they are, can still withstand the test of time, especially when empirical evidence is provided to back them up. Bias does not come into play here.

However when it comes to opinion, views no matter how varied they are expressed, can easily be subjected to scrutiny. If bias come into an expressed opinion, it will only serve to dilute any strong argument being put forward. Any rational person knows this.

As I stated earlier, I have set the pro-Tyson supporters a challenge, if they rise to it and deliver then we can continue to have this discourse. Until then, let the truth seek solace in objectivity whilst ignorance continues to wallow and bask in a narrow minded world view.

Eastbay:

Saroun, that's the most utter gibberish I have read on this thread.
Who sent Tyson to jail?Me or Nairalanders?If he was responsible enough not to let his phantom success get into his blockhead,we wouldn't be talking about this issue.
Besides,he had lost his air of "invincibility" when the ultimate fluke,Buster Douglas (who had lost 3 of his previous 4 fights before facing Tyson) whipped him silly.FACT:He was already in decline when he got to jail and was dead scared of Holyfield.He feigned injury to avoid him on at least one occasion.

Ali was BANNED from boxing because of Vietnam.That is worse,because he was suddenly reduced to a NOBODY:his license was revoked all around America and he couldn't even train.And he was supposed to be "free",not in jail.He was also undefeated before he was banned.
Believe me,there is a HUGE difference between their scenarios.

Dayokanu,stop talking thrash about Ali hugging opponents.If you have watched any of his fights,(which I very much doubt you have) you would in no way draw this lousy conclusion if you are being rational about this debate.
Holmes isn't my hero. Get that clear.
Besides, ask any boxing historian and they will tell you that the two fights (Holmes/Spinks)were shrouded in controversy.Most analysts still think today that Holmes was robbed in particularly the second fight.If my memory serves me correct,he was floored by holmes in that fight but the ref didn't even give a standing eight count.
And what did Spinks do after that?He ducked Tony Tucker,who was supposed to be his mandatory challenger for the IBF title.This same Tucker landed a ferrocious right hook on Tyson's jaw in their first round and took that silly brute to 12 rounds on a broken right hand.
Spinks hasn't done anything since beating Dwight Mohammed Qawi in 85 or 86 (can't really remember) at LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT.

Ali took on all comers as they came.He didn't dodge people he thought were stronger. If not we wouldn't have seen the Rumble in the Jungle.Regarded as the no1 fight of all time.

Easybay (I have to include Kay Pumping here as well),

You obviously know your boxing. We have stated the obvious and people who know the obvious will refuse to contradict the truth.

I have set pro -tyson supporters a challenge. I want them to google the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time and click on any of these sites. If they can find tyson's name being touted as the greatest, let them copy and paste here for all to see.

And if they were to google the grestest boxer of all time, Tyson's name is not even mentioned at all.

But why are we flogging a dead issue anyway? The stats of the poll showing on Nairaland indicates Ali's a run away winner. So would many websites the world over. If they doubt it, hey google is their friend. But alas, no matter how many times you play the truth, some people will turn a deaf ear to it or even run away from it.

MrCrackles:

I would have Tyson

He had a longer, illustrious, infamous and controversial career!!

So for the simple reason that he had a long and illustrious career, that makes him the "greatest"?

This has now degenerated into a joke. At least I can laugh, not at you but at your assertions.

Again, may I reinstate my point that no knowledgeable boxing analyst will rate Mike Tyson as the greatest boxer of all. That accolade is reserved for the trio of Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali and Henry Armstrong. And Sugar Ray in most people’s view wins that honour of being the best pound for pound boxer in history.

But since the debate seems to focus on three heavyweights (Ali, Tyson and Marciano), Ali still shades it. For all posters who are pro-Tyson, one obvious flaw in your analysis is your failure to analyse the competitive era (or lack of it, as the case was with Tyson) of Ali and Tyson.

Now let's see Tyson's credible list:

Tyrell Biggs, Pinklon Thomas, Frank Bruno, Razor Ruddock, (and even Buster Douglas who beat him), Michael Spinks (who really was a Light heavy weight), Tony Tucker, James Smith, Holmes (washed up when he fought Tyson), Trevor Berbick, Carl Williams, etc

Can you guys seriously tell me a credible opponent of world class status that any of these beat before facing Tyson?


Now let’s look at Ali’s credible opponents. He fought Joe Frasier, Ken Norton, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Shavers, Sonny Liston, Henry Cooper, George Foreman, etc.



Now in analyzing both fighters, look at the opponents they faced. Most of Ali’s credible opponents were quality world class opponents.

Next, examine the caliber of opponents those “credible” opponents faced. For instance, Ali beat Norton, but Norton was no bum. He fought Larry Holmes to a standstill over 15 grueling rounds.

Next, look at the records of the opponents that both Ali and Tyson faced. Ali best Foreman, but Foreman (next to Archie Moore and Marciano) has one of the highest number of knockouts in heavy weight history.

When Ali faced big tests he pulled through and won against these opponents. When Tyson faced real tests against credible opponents, he crumbled big time. And don’t bring up the jail time accuse. He was training in the gym. Read up on this. Google is your friend. Ali too was out of boxing for about two years. No matter. That didn’t dull his boxing skills. Or didn’t Tyson win back the title after his first spell in prison against Bruno?


In picking the greatest heavyweight, it’s easy to want to pick a fighter we know so well and have seen fight on many occasions on our TV screens. But if you were not privileged to watch most of Ali’s fights, at least read up on what respected boxing analysts say about the issue. It may be a matter of opinion at the end of the day, but great ness is not normally assigned to a boxer simply because he knocked his opponents silly.

FACT: Sonny Liston and George Foreman were meaner and badder than Tyson. FACT: Foreman has more knockouts than Tyson for example. But you will never hear of Foreman or Liston being touted as the greatest.

Let’s not abandon objectivity in favour of bias here. And if pro-Tyson supporters want to argue this until they are blue in the face, simply google “the greatest heavyweight of all time” and paste your results from various websites here. As for the greatest boxer of all time, you wouldn’t even find Tyson’s name in any respected website as No1.

Go figure.

Wow, How ironic that my first post here will be about Boxing.

Having carefully weighed the context and thrust of the argument, I would like to pitch my tent with A40, Easybay and most of all, Ibime. It is easy to know ardent students of boxing, their stance and the way they put forth their comments.


Now, the argument: Who is the greatest heavyweight of all time? Now, we were presented with only three options, which I felt was really unfair. Why? We had Marciano, Ali and Tyson. But,  I was plesantly surprised that Joe Louis name was not amongst them. Obviously the question asked appeared to be: Who was the greatest heavyweight and not "the greatest boxer of all time" since it listed only heavyweight boxers.

If the question had been the latter, I wouldn't have hesitated in naming Sugar Ray Robinson as the greatest boxer of all time and with cogent reasons as well.
But , that is an argument for another day.


In naming the best heavyweight of any era, whilst the quick fire response will be to engage in a bias mode session, the answer is routed in objectivity regardless of the relative era of the respective trio of heavyweight boxers (Ali, Marciano and Tyson). Although I stoutly believe Louis should have been in the list. And if we were to be harsh and not include him, then it can also be reasonably argued that Tyson does not belong in that list, and Foreman should have taken his place instead.


In my opinion, and most respected pundits will attest to this, my heart says Joe Louis but my head goes for Ali.


Why Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time

Ali fought in an era that was incomparable to any era in terms of competition. When noting why someone is good and wants to work for a company, most employers will be impressed with not only their achivements but the high caliber of companies that the applicant has worked for.

Ali fought a stubborn Joe Frasier three times. All three bouts especially the last one were epic fights. He forced Liston (the Tyson of his era to quit on his stool after 6 rounds). He beat a durable opponent in Norton twice. Knocked out a monster of a boxer in Foreman. Struggled with, but overcame a ressilient opponent in Earnie Shavers and Joe Bugner - opponents who can rightly win the heavyweight title in this era. He overcame adversity and came back on many occasions (against Frasier, Cooper, Spinks and Norton) to win.


Ali may have been hyped as someone claimed, but he was made of substance. Pele and Maradona were hyped, but they both could tap the round ball brilliantly. Unlike many heavyweight boxing champions before him, except Gene Tunney, Ali introduced science to boxing. Aside from Jack John who deployed a waiting offensive game before mauling his opponents, Ali strategised against his opponents before entering the ring. He knew what he had to do against each opponent. He always had a plan B or plan C.

His game plan against Liston was to upset him before the fight. In the ring, rather than hit and be hit, he developed a stick and move plan that worked to great effect. His bobbing and weaving whilst on his "bicycle", and jabbing at the same time, suddenly made Liston look old overnight and resulted in him missing his target with reckless abandon.

Against Frasier, he knew Joe had a killer left, but each time Joe looked to unload, Ali knew when to grab hold of him to negate the effect of the hook.

Against Foreman, Ali simply defied everyone by going out on the offensive from round 1. He surprised even Foreman. His jabs smacked against George's face at will. Although Ali had lost his bounce, he was prepared to take Foreman's best shots whilst recuperating on the ropes. Hence the "rope a dope" strategy. It was devised to let his opponent punch himself out. But it was equally effective for him to take a breather himself.


Against Spinks, Ali remedied what he didn't do in their first fight by ensuring he kept the young Spinks at bay with his stinging left jab all night. He ensured he built up an early lead in the fight to win a unanimous 15 round decision. Spinks simply couldn't repeat his exploits of the first fight.

And lastly, to cap it all, Ali won the heavyweight title three  times. He took more punches than Marciano and Tyson put together. If Ali could beat Liston and Foreman, more fearsome in their prime than Tyson, than Ali would surely have overcome Tyson with poetry and then with clinical accuracy, outclass and out think him in the latter rounds.


Tyson simply didn't have a plan B when faced with adversity. He didn't know what to do against Buster when he was in trouble. Ditto Holyfield in their first fight. And for those who claim Tyson was devastating in his era, yes he was. But against the likes of who? Thomas, Bruno (who shook him with a left i the first fight, but couldn't follow through), Briggs, a washed up Holmes, a scarry eyed Spinks, etc More often than not, he used fear as a powerful weapon to immobilize his prey whilst going for the kill. Only Buster and Holyfield were not susceptible to it (and he was still in his prime then).

Marciano enjoyed a bit of longevity, but not equal to that of Joe Louis. The Rock was solid alright and took no prisoners. But his CV reads a list of fights against Archie Moore (really a light heavy), Ezzard Charles (the only durable opponent who took him the full distance), and a 38 year old Jersey Joe Walcott. When he fought Joe Louis and beat him, Joe was on a comeback trail and old.


Joe Louis too had a remarkable record holding the title for 106 months with 25 world title defences. He fought durable and competitive names like Max Baer, Max Schmeling, James Bradock, Billy Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott - all talented world class champions in their own right.