These three things which appear in your reply:

experts:


Lexical Meaning . .

English Muslim Versions . .

Contextual Meaning . .

. . can be found in that page I talked about earlier from Sam Shamoun's article. That article does not argue that that Quran came to "correct", but rather that it came to CONFIRM the Holy Bible - and by reposting Shamoun's article you have destroyed your own argument already. Well done.

experts:

The Qur'an agreed that it has come to confirm the bible, not authenticate it.

The word CONFIRM is basically the same as AUTHENTICATE - check over from various Thesaurus and English dictionaries. For example, Roget's Thesaurus on "confirm" has the following words in the same meaning -

2. To assure the certainty or validity of:
attest, authenticate, back (up), bear out, corroborate,
evidence, justify, substantiate, testify (to), validate, verify, warrant.

So, whether it is "confirm" or "authenticate", they are THE SAME - and that is what the Quran came to do with respect to the Bible. Authenticate DOES NOT mean 'to correct'.

experts:

now i have a verse that tells you exactly what the Qur'an confirmation means.

"And unto you have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watch over it …, " (the Qur’an 5:48)

This emphasizes two main aspects of the Qur’an:

a) The Qur’an confirms those teachings or passages of previous scriptures which remained intact.

That is not what the Quran says at all, so stop deceiving yourself. The Quran does not select some passages to "correct" or "confirm" - it simply states that it came to CONFIRM the Scriptures that were revealed BEFORE the Quran - so please stop trying to force selective reading into your Quran: it won't work!

b) The Qur’an is the last, complete, authoritative and authentic revelation. It is the final arbiter and the only criterion to correct any inaccuracy or misinterpretation which might have occurred in the transmission of scriptures.

What "authenticates" the Quran, dude? The Bible speaks of only ONE EARTH (Genesis 1:1); but the Quran speaks of SEVEN EARTHS (Quran 65:12). Between them, which one has been confirmed to be correct? If the Quran was correct, where are the remaining SIX EARTHS of Allah, mr experts?

The Quran is not a complete/authoritatve/authentic revelation to have argued SEVEN EARTHS where we all know that there is ONLY ONE EARTH! I am willing to be proven wrong about only one earth - as long as you can show me where the other six earths of the Quran are located! WHERE ARE THEY?

It helps in discovering human additions to or interpolations of previous revelations, even as it reveals possible deletions which might have taken place through the centuries prior to its revelation (the Qur’an). Indeed one of the names of the Qur’an is al-Furqan (the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong, truth and falsehood).

^^ Quran 65:12 is clearly a human addition - it cannot determine truth because the claim of SEVEN EARTHS is a golden falsehood. Show me where the other SIX EARTHS are located, and I will congratulate you.

It follows therefore that a Muslim has no reason to reject the essence of any passage in the Bible if such a passage is confirmed by the Qur’an.

There is no grounds for selective reading in the Quran - and Muslims have plenty of reasons to reject a Quranic claim of SEVEN EARTHS (Q. 65:12) because we all know there is ONLY ONE EARTH.

When you come back, please try and use your own reasoning faculty instead of yanking other people's articles to post here as if they were your own. People should be tired of reading Muslim plagiarism on this forum - so if you must steal articles from others, do us the favour of posting them in the Muslim section. Cheers.

you are truely a professional deceiver, u try as much to catch attention by pointing out an argument were there is non,

but thanks to the muslim experts who is equally good in making a point without diversion.

You accused the Qur'an,
To prove the seven earth,

lol,

you are wonderful, and how i wish you are on the right path,perhaps you might be saved.

But i pray for you. May God open your heart to the truth,

Without taking much time, Every single Qur'anic prophesies has come to past. with scientific prove.

About the seven earth is not an exception,


Earth’s Seven Layers

Development of Scientific Facts

The Three Layer -Theory did not last for so long due to recent discoveries in Geology. Recent measurements and experiments showed that the material comprising the nucleus of the Earth is under very high pressure, three million times more than that on the surface of the Earth.

Under such pressure, matter transforms into solid state, this in turn makes Earth’s core very solid,This core is surrounded by a liquid layer of very high temperature. This means that there are two layers in Earth’s core and not one.Two layers; one solid in the center surrounded by another liquid layer.

Thereafter measuring devices advanced and presented to scientists a clear distinction among Earth’s inner layers. If we were to descend under the earth’s crust we would find another layer of very hot stones , which is the stone cover or wrap. After that come three other distinct layers of varying density, pressure and temperature.

Therefore scientists found themselves classifying the layers of Earth into seven layers, not more. The figure shows these layers with their dimensions (some are out of scale) according to what scientists have recently found using methods like earthquake measuring devices and the study of Earth’s magnetic field, among other techniques. These studies and discoveries are being taught to these scientists’ students in universities.

Figure showing Earth’s seven layers, notice that the crust is very thin followed by mantle of varying thickness, then came the core comprised of a liquid and finally a seventh solid nucleus.

Scientists have found that the atom is also comprised of seven layers or levels, and this proves the uniformity of creation, where Earth has seven layers and atoms have seven layers as well. This creation therefore is ruled by only one creator.

Earth’s seven layers vary greatly in structure, density, temperature and material. Therefore one cannot consider that Earth has only one layer as people anciently thought. Here we find that the idea of the Earth having layers is fairly recent and wasn’t presented or brought forward at the time when the Quran was being revealed. Those discoveries are what the Twenty First century -scientists tell us, What then does the book of Allah tell us?

In the Company of the Noble Quran

The Holy Quran, God's word , talks to us about the seven Heavens and also seven layers of Earth in the Quranic verses:

God says in the Holy Quran in this regard what means “Who has created the seven heavens one above another…” [Al-Mulk 3]

God says in the Holy Quran in this regard what means “It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven).” [Attalaq 12

The first verse has specified two traits for the heavens which are: their number which is seven, their organization, which is into layers , one on the of top of the other and this is according to the Quranic interpretation books and Arabic language dictionaries. As for the second verse, it confirms that Earth is similar to the Heavens from the part of the verse that says “…and of the earth the like thereof”, where since the Heavens are layers, then Earth is comprised of layers as well, and since the Heavens are seven, therefore Earth’s layers are seven as well.

Here we need to pause and elaborate on Allah’s choice of words in the word: “Tibaqa” – which means layers one on top of another, and this is what scientists have recently discovered that Earth is comprised of layers, this in turn leads us to conclude that Al-Qur`an defined Earth’s shape, of layers, and it (Al-Quran) has also specified the number of these layers, seven. Henceforth Al-Qur`an chose a very specific word to describe Earth’s composition, so Al-Qur`an preceded the Twenty First Century scientists in mentioning Earths facts fourteen centuries ago. Isn’t this an overwhelming Quranic miracle?

If we contemplate 0n the Noble Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon him) Hadeeth (sayings), we find one Hadeeth that confirms this fact of Earth’s seven overlapping layers. Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessings be upon him) says: “whomever oppressed someone a hand span’s distance from the Earth, gets surrounded by seven overlapping layers”[Bukhari 2321], the Hadeeth is telling us that Allah will punish those who oppress in Earth by being encircled and surrounded by seven Earthly layers. This definition for the word “Tawaqa” that was used in the Hadeeth is as found in Arabic Language Dictionaries.

The question here is: Isn’t this a great prophetic miracle? doesn’t this Hadeeth specify the number of Earth’s layers which are seven, and also mentions their nature of being overlapped or surrounding each other?From the word encircled used in the Hadeeth, we can deduce circular shapes and in three dimensions we can deduce spherical shapes.

Henceforth The Noble Qur’an and Prophetic Sunnah (traditions of the Prophet) preceded modern science to this scientific fact. In addition Al-Qur’an gave us the precise naming for the structure of Earth using the word “Tibaqa” or layers, and it has given us the accurate number for these layers which is seven, while scientists spent long years and changed their theories several times to come up with scientific theories previously mentioned in The Quran and Sunnah. Glory be to Allah the Greatest who said in his exalted book: “And on the earth are signs for those who have Faith with certainty, And also in your ownselves. Will you not then see?” [Athariyat, 20,21]

experts:

you are truely a professional deceiver, u try as much to catch attention by pointing out an argument were there is non,

I did not take you on an arguement where there was none. If I pointed out that you had plagiarised someone else's article to dress up here as your own, please show the forum that it was not true - and then your accusation that I were a professional deceiver would have substance. If, on the other hand, you cannot point out that I was wrong, you're playing the double professional deceiver in this thread - and you've been caught thrice with your pants down!

Own up, or just be quiet!

but thanks to the muslim experts who is equally good in making a point without diversion.

Praising yourself on your celebrated duplicity, are you? I give it to you - free of charge - what a deceiver you must be (pst: please let us know which of the muslims cells you received your dubious training from, thanks).

You accused the Qur'an,

Oh be quiet already! I did not "accuse" the Quran - that is why I posted the Quranic verse. Show me allah's remaining SIX EARTHS before claiming he created SEVEN EARTHS. Is that an "accusation"?

To prove the seven earth,

lol,

you are wonderful, and how i wish you are on the right path,perhaps you might be saved.

Goodness! You started out trying to "prove the seven earths", stuttered with a lol . . . and then turn round to say that I am "wonderful"?!? Dude, what's gwan with ya?

But i pray for you. May God open your heart to the truth,

I pray that prayer for you. For real.

Without taking much time, Every single Qur'anic prophesies has come to past. with scientific prove.

Plase show me the "prophecy" of Quran 65:12 - that verse says that Allah created SEVEN EARTHS - please show me where your muslims cosmologists and scientists have "proven" it to be correct.

About the seven earth is not an exception,


Earth’s Seven Layers

The Quran does not say "earth's seven layers" in Quran 65:12. If you doubt me, please read the following translations of that verse from your own Muslim translators:

[list]

English Qurans:
Quran 65:12

YusufAli:
"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. ... "

Pickthal:
"Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. ... "

Shakir; SherAli:
"Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the earth the like of them; ... "

Hilali-Khan:
"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). ... "

Khalifa:
"GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. ... "

Rodwell:
"It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths ... "

A. Bewley:
"It is Allah who created the seven heavens and the earth the same number ... "

M. Sarwar:
"It is God who created the seven heavens and a like number of the earths. ... "

[/list]

Your Muslim scholars and translators did not say that the Quran was talking about one earth of seven layers. NO, not at all. Rather, they said the Quran was talking about SEVEN EARTHS - read the emphasis all in red (that's the colour of danger! ).

experts:

Development of Scientific Facts

The Three Layer -Theory did not last for so long due to recent discoveries in Geology. Recent measurements and experiments showed that the material comprising the nucleus of the Earth is under very high pressure, three million times more than that on the surface of the Earth.

The Quran was not talking about any "three layers theory" or even "seven layers hypothesis". The Quran rather claimed that Allah created SEVEN EARTHS. Period.

experts:

Under such pressure, matter transforms into solid state, this in turn makes Earth’s core very solid,This core is surrounded by a liquid layer of very high temperature. This means that there are two layers in Earth’s core and not one.Two layers; one solid in the center surrounded by another liquid layer.

Like above.

experts:

Thereafter measuring devices advanced and presented to scientists a clear distinction among Earth’s inner layers. If we were to descend under the earth’s crust we would find another layer of very hot stones , which is the stone cover or wrap. After that come three other distinct layers of varying density, pressure and temperature.

The Quran was not talking about "layers" of the Earth. So please cut to the chase.

experts:

Therefore scientists found themselves classifying the layers of Earth into seven layers, not more.

That is the usual thing you will find among Muslim apologists and nowhere else. ,  it is just like a native dialect with you people, and that is why every time you post something in this thread, I just know I've seen it somewhere in a Muslim forum or blog, hehe.

The whole argument you posted here is NOT your own - again, you plagiarised it from another muslim site. I don't know which one in particular, but I know that it appears in many Muslim sites. Try MissionMuslim for instance, and you will see the exact same thing!

Let me put your arguments to rest.

If one has to consider what exactly your course means by 'seven layers', we find a few things wrong. Basic among all this is that your author is confusing the various elements of the earth's structure in a needlessly repeated fashion in order to arrive at "seven layers" where there should basically have been four or five (depending on how you want to study the structure of the earth).

Here is another list of the structure of the earth in terms of "layers" -


Earth's Layer [url=http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_Earth%27s_layers]from WikiAnswers[/url]:

The Crust:
* Continental Crust
* Oceanic Crust
The Mantle:
* Upper Mantle
* Lithosphere
* Asthenosphere
* Transition Zone
* The Lower Mantle
* The D'' area
The Core:
* Outer Core
* Inner Core

From the above, if you have to count all "layers" (regardless of their composition), you're looking at no less than TEN LAYERS, not 'seven'.

Can you then tell me what on earth your Muslim interpreters mean by this -

[list]Hilali-Khan:
"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). ... "

Khalifa:
"GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. ... "[/list]

Your Quran does not say "seven layers" but rathe SEVEN EARTHS. Even if you want to refer to the layers of the earth in terms of its composition, dude you need to update and see that scientists speak of no less that TEN layers.

Where are Allah's remaining SIX EARTHS since the Quran is claiming SEVEN EARTHS on his behalf?

i just enjoy seeing your responses.


You don't understand the Qur'an any bit, so you are tend to say all sort of thing.

you need do more search and get d elaborate explanation of the verses you pasted, to see that you don't understand any of what you pasted.

but never mind, here is more explanation from a more elaborate source,

this is about heaven, the Qur'an has never missed anyway before, no any mistake has ever been found. and never will be it be found. you can only have wrong understanding

One fact about the universe revealed in the verses of the Qur'an is that the sky is made up of seven layers:

It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things. (Qur'an, 2:29)

Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate. (Qur'an, 41:11-12)

The word "heavens," which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.


Today, it is known that the world's atmosphere consists of different layers that lie on top of each other.19 Based on the criteria of chemical contents or air temperature, the definitions made have determined the atmosphere of the earth as seven layers.20 According to the "Limited Fine Mesh Model (LFMMII)," a model of atmosphere used to estimate weather conditions for 48 hours, the atmosphere is also 7 layers. According to the modern geological definitions the seven layers of atmosphere are as follows:

1. Troposphere

2. Stratosphere

3. Mesosphere

4. Thermosphere

5. Exosphere

6. Ionosphere

7. Magnetosphere

The Qur'an says, "[He] revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate," in Surah Fussilat 12. In other words, Allah is stating that He assigned each heaven its own duty. Truly, as will be seen in following chapters, each one of these layers has vital duties for the benefit of human kind and all other living things on the Earth. Each layer has a particular function, ranging from forming rain to preventing harmful rays, from reflecting radio waves to averting the harmful effects of meteors.

The verses below inform us about the appearance of the seven layers of the atmosphere:

Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers? (Qur'an, 71:15)

He Who created the seven heavens in layers… (Qur'an, 67:3)


The atmosphere only lets rays required for life reach the Earth. For example, ultraviolet rays make it to the world only partially. This is the most appropriate range to allow plants to make photosynthesis and eventually for all living things to survive.

The Arabic word "tibaqan" in these verses, translated into English as "layer" means "layer, the appropriate cover or covering for something," and thus stresses how the top layer is well suited to the lower. The word is also used in the plural here: "layers." The sky, described in the verse as being in layers, is without doubt the most perfect expression of the atmosphere. It is a great miracle that these facts, which could not possibly be discovered without the technology of the 20th century, were explicitly stated by the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.



In the Qur'an, Allah calls our attention to a very important attribute of the sky:

We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs. (Qur'an, 21:32)

This attribute of the sky has been proved by scientific research carried out in the 20th century: The atmosphere surrounding the Earth serves crucial functions for the continuity of life. While destroying many meteors-big and small-as they approach the Earth, it prevents them from falling to Earth and harming living things.

In addition, the atmosphere filters the light rays coming from space that are harmful to living things. The most striking feature of the atmosphere is that it lets only harmless and useful rays-visible light, near ultraviolet light and radio waves pass through. All of this radiation is vital for life. Near ultraviolet rays, which are only partially let in by the atmosphere, are very important for the photosynthesis of plants and for the survival of all living beings. The majority of the intense ultraviolet rays emitted from the Sun are filtered out by the ozone layer of the atmosphere. Only a limited and essential part of the ultraviolet spectrum reaches the Earth.

The protective function of the atmosphere does not end here. The atmosphere also protects the earth from the freezing cold of the space, which is approximately -270oC.

It is not only the atmosphere that protects the Earth from harmful effects. In addition to the atmosphere, the Van Allen Belt-the layer caused by the magnetic field of the Earth-also serves as a shield against the harmful radiation that threatens our planet. This radiation, which is constantly emitted by the Sun and other stars, is deadly to living things. If the Van Allen belt did not exist, the massive outbursts of energy called solar flares that frequently occur in the Sun would destroy all life on Earth.

The magnetosphere layer, formed by the magnetic field of the Earth, serves as a shield protecting the Earth from celestial bodies, harmful cosmic rays and particles. In the above picture, this magnetosphere layer, which is also named Van Allen Belts, is seen. These belts at thousands of kilometres above the Earth protect the living things on the Earth from the fatal energy that would otherwise reach it from space.

All these scientific findings prove that the world is protected in a very particular way. The important thing is that this protection was made known in the Qur'an in the verse "We made the sky a preserved and protected roof" fourteen centuries ago.

On the importance of the Van Allen Belt, Dr. Hugh Ross says:

In fact, the Earth has the highest density of any of the planets in our Solar System. This large nickel-iron core is responsible for our large magnetic field. This magnetic field produces the Van-Allen radiation shield, which protects the Earth from radiation bombardment. If this shield were not present, life would not be possible on the Earth. The only other rocky planet to have any magnetic field is Mercury-but its field strength is 100 times less than the Earth's. Even Venus, our sister planet, has no magnetic field. The Van-Allen radiation shield is a design unique to the Earth.21

The energy transmitted in just one of these bursts detected in recent years was calculated to be equivalent to 100 billion atomic bombs, each akin to one dropped on Hiroshima at the end of World War II. Fifty-eight hours after the burst, it was observed that the magnetic needles of compasses displayed unusual movement and 250 kilometres above the Earth's atmosphere, the temperature suddenly increased to 2,500oC.



Most people looking at the sky do not think about the protective aspect of the atmosphere. They almost never think what kind of a place the world would be like if this structure did not exist. The above photo belongs to a giant crater caused by a meteor that fell in Arizona, in the USA. If the atmosphere did not exist, millions of meteoroids would fall to the Earth and the Earth would become an inhabitable place. Yet, the protective aspect of the atmosphere allows living things to survive in safety. This is certainly Allah's protection of people and a miracle proclaimed in the Qur'an.

In short, a perfect system is at work high above the Earth. It surrounds our world and protects it against external threats. Centuries ago, Allah informed us in the Qur'an of the world's atmosphere functioning as a protective shield.


It is He Who made the earth a couch for you, and the sky a dome. He sends down water from the sky and by it brings forth fruits for your provision. Do not, then, knowingly make others equal to Allah. (Qur'an, 2:22)

Here, the Arabic word for the sky is "assamaa binaan." As well as the meaning of "dome" or "ceiling," this also describes a kind of tent-like covering used by the Bedouin.22 What is being emphasised here, through mention of a tent-like structure, is a form of protection against external elements.

Even if we are generally unaware of it, a large number of meteors fall to the Earth, as they do the other planets. The reason why these make enormous craters on other planets but do no harm on Earth is that the atmosphere puts up considerable resistance to a falling meteor. The meteor is unable to withstand this for long and loses much of its mass from combustion due to friction. This danger, which might otherwise cause terrible disasters, is thus prevented thanks to the atmosphere. As well as the verses regarding the protective properties of the atmosphere cited above, attention is also drawn to the special creation in the following verse:

Do you not see that Allah has made everything on the earth subservient to you and the ships running upon the sea by His command? He holds back the heaven, preventing it from falling to the earth-except by His permission. Allah is All-Compassionate to mankind, Most Merciful. (Qur'an, 22:65)

The protective property of the atmosphere we discussed in the preceding section protects the Earth from space-in other words, from external elements. With the word "dome," referring to the sky in the above verse, attention is drawn to this aspect of the sky, which could not possibly have been known at the time of our Prophet (saas). The fact that this information was imparted 1,400 years ago in the Qur'an, when there were no spacecraft or giant telescopes, shows that the Qur'an is the revelation of our Lord, the Omniscient.


The verse 11 of Surat at-Tariq in the Qur'an, refers to the "returning" function of the sky.

[I swear] by Heaven which returns. (Qur'an, 86:11)

The word "rajaai" interpreted as "return" in Qur'an translations has meanings of "sending back" or "returning." As is known, the atmosphere surrounding the Earth consists of many layers. Each layer serves an important purpose for the benefit of life on Earth. Research has revealed that these layers have the function of turning the materials or rays they are exposed to back into space or back down to the Earth. Now let us examine, employing a few fitting examples, this "returning" function of the layers encircling the Earth.

The troposphere, 13 to 15 kilometres above the Earth, enables water vapour rising from the surface of the Earth to be condensed and turned back as rain. The ozone layer, the lower layer of stratosphere at an altitude of 25 kilometres, reflects harmful radiation and ultraviolet light coming from space and turns both back into space.

The ionosphere reflects radio waves broadcast from the Earth back down to different parts of the world just like a passive communications satellite. Thus, it makes wireless communication, radio, and television broadcasting possible over long distances. The magnetosphere layer turns the harmful radioactive particles emitted by the Sun and other stars back into space before they reach the Earth.

The fact that this property of the atmosphere's layers, that was only demonstrated in the recent past was announced centuries ago in the Qur'an, once again proves that the Qur'an is Allah's Word.

Now talking about earth which is your main concern.

and also many more Revelation of th Qur'an which have already come to pass with scientific proof

THE LAYERS OF THE EARTH

One item of information about the Earth given in the Qur'an is its similarity to the seven-layered sky:

It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)

The information in the above verse is confirmed in scientific sources, wherein it is explained that the Earth consists of seven strata. These, as scientists have identified, are:

1st layer: Lithosphere (water)

2nd layer: Lithosphere (land)

3rd layer: Asthenosphere

4th layer: Upper Mantle

5th layer: Inner Mantle

6th layer: Outer Core

7th layer: Inner Core

The word lithosphere is derived from the Greek word lithos, meaning stone, which is a hard stratum forming the Earth's top layer. It is quite thin in comparison to the other strata. The lithosphere under the oceans is still thinner, and is a region with volcanic activity. Its average thickness is 80 km. It is colder and harder than the other strata, and therefore, forms the earth's shell.

Below the lithosphere is the stratum known as the asthenosphere, from the Greek word for "weak," asthenes. This layer is thinner than the lithosphere and shifts. It was formed of hot, semi-solid substances capable of melting when exposed to high temperatures and pressure over geological time. It is thought that the hard lithosphere floats or moves over the slowly moving asthenosphere.23 Under these layers is a high-temperature layer some 2,900 km thick, made up of semi-solid rock known as the mantle. This contains more iron, magnesium and calcium than the crust, and is also hotter and denser, because temperature and density in the Earth increase with depth.

At the centre of the Earth is the core, approximately twice as dense as the mantle. The reason for that density is that it contains a higher proportion of metals (iron-nickel alloy) than rock. The Earth's core consists of two parts. One is the 2,200 km thick liquid outer core, the other a 1,250 km thick solid inner core. The liquid outer core provides the Earth's magnetic field as the planet rotates.

The truth of this similarity between the sky and the layers of the Earth, only identified by 20th century technology, is without doubt another of the Qur'an's scientific miracles.

THE EARTH DISGORGES ITS CHARGES

When the earth is convulsed with its quaking and the earth then disgorges its charges and man asks, "What is wrong with it?", on that Day it will impart all its news. (Qur'an, 99:1-4)

The word "zilzal" in Arabic means earthquake, or tremors, and the word "athqalaha" means "charges, heavy burdens." When one considers the above verses in the light of the first meaning, it can be seen that reference is being made to an important scientific fact about earthquakes.

Surat az-Zilzal 2 mentions the earth disgorging its charges. Indeed, as a result of research in recent years, it has been realised that there are heavy metals at the centre of the Earth, and that these appear as a result of movements on the Earth's surface. According to geologists' calculations, as the Earth cooled, heavy and dense substances sank to its centre, while lighter ones rose to the surface. For that reason, the Earth's crust consists of the least heaviest substances (basalt and granite rocks), while heavy metals (nickel and iron) are found in the core. As a result, the subsurface, which consists of molten metals, is made of a material that is much heavier and denser than the surface.

During earthquakes, the heavy substances below the surface have an opportunity to rise, and the Earth thus disgorges its charges, as revealed in the Qur'an. Moreover, those regions where metal reserves are most concentrated are also those with the greatest volcanic activity. These scientific findings, which emerged only recently, and as a result of wide-ranging research, are just some of the scientific facts indicated by Allah in the Qur'an.

HE FUNCTION OF MOUNTAINS

The Qur'an draws attention to a very important geological function of mountains:

We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them… (Qur'an, 21:31)

The verse states that mountains perform the function of preventing shocks in the Earth. This fact was not known by anyone at the time the Qur'an was revealed. It was, in fact, brought to light only recently, as a result of the findings of modern geological research.

Formerly, it was thought that mountains were merely protrusions rising above the surface of the Earth. However, scientists realised that this was not actually the case, and that those parts known as the mountain root extended down as far as 10-15 times their own height. With these features, mountains play a similar role to a nail or peg firmly holding down a tent. For example, Mount Everest, the summit of which stands approximately 9 km above the surface of the Earth, has a root deeper than 125 km.24.

Mountains emerge as a result of the movements and collisions of massive plates forming the Earth's crust. When two plates collide, the stronger one slides under the other, the one on the top bends and forms heights and mountains. The layer beneath proceeds under the ground and makes a deep extension downward. Consequently, as stated earlier, mountains have a portion stretching downwards, as large as their visible parts on the Earth.

In a scientific text, the structure of mountains is described as follows:

Where continents are thicker, as in mountain ranges, the crust sinks deeper into the mantle.25

Professor Siaveda, a world-renowned underwater geologist, made the following comment in reference to the way that mountains have root-like stalks attaching them to the surface:

The fundamental difference between continental mountains and the oceanic mountains lies in its material, But the common denominator on both mountains are that they have roots to support the mountains. In the case of continental mountains, light-low density material from the mountain is extended down into the earth as a root. In the case of oceanic mountains, there is also light material supporting the mountain as a root, Therefore, the function of the roots are to support the mountains according to the law of Archimedes.26

Furthermore, a book titled Earth, by Dr. Frank Press, former president of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, which is still used as a text book in a great many universities, states that mountains are like stakes, and are buried deep under the surface of the Earth.27

In other verses, this role of the mountains is pointed out by a comparison with "pegs":

Have We not made the earth as a bed and the mountains its pegs? (Qur'an, 78:6-7)

In another verse it is revealed that Allah "made the mountains firm." (Qur'an, 79:32) The word "arsaha" in this verse means "was made rooted, was fixed, was nailed to the earth." Similarly, mountains extend to the surface layer joining lines on and below the surface, and nail these together. By fixing the Earth's crust they prevent any sliding over the magma layer or amongst the layers themselves. In short, mountains can be compared to nails holding strips of wood together. The fixing effect of mountains is known as isostasy in scientific literature. Isostasy is the state of equilibrium between the upward force created by the mantle layer and the downward force created by the Earth's crust. As mountains lose mass due to erosion, soil loss or melting of glaciers, they can gain mass from the formation of glaciers, volcanic explosions or soil formation. Therefore, as mountains grow lighter they are pressed upwards by the raising force implemented by the liquids. Alternatively, as they grow heavier they are pressed into the mantle by the force of gravity. Equilibrium between these two forces is established by isostasy. This balancing property of mountains is described in these terms in a scientific source:

G.B Airy in 1855 suggested that the crust of the earth could be likened to rafts of timber floating on water. Thick pieces of timber float higher above the water surface than thin pieces and similarly thick sections of the earth's crust will float on a liquid or plastic substratum of greater density. Airy was suggesting that mountains have a deep root of lower density rock which the plains lack. Four years after Airy published his work, J.H Pratt offered an alternative hypothesis, By this hypothesis rock columns below mountains must have a lower density, because of their greater length, than shorter rock columns beneath plains. Both Airy and Pratt's hypothesis imply that surface irregularities are balanced by differences in density of rocks below the major features (mountains and plains) of the crust. This state of BALANCE is described as the concept of ISOSTASY.28

Today, we know that the rocky external layer of the Earth's surface is riven by deep faults and split into plates swimming above the molten lava. Since the Earth revolves very quickly around its own axis, were it not for the fixing effect of the mountains, these plaques would shift. In such an event, soil would not collect on the Earth's surface, water would not accumulate in the soil, no plants could grow, and no roads or houses could be built. In short, life on Earth would be impossible. Through the mercy of Allah, however, mountains act like nails, and to a large extent, prevent movement in the Earth's surface.

We subjected the mountains to glorify [Allah] with him in the
evening and at sunrise.
(Qur’an, 38:18)

He cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so it would not move under you, and rivers and pathways so that hopefully
you would be guided.
(Qur’an, 16:15)

This vital role of mountains, which has been discovered by modern geological and seismic research, was revealed in the Qur'an centuries ago as an example of the supreme wisdom in Allah's creation.

… [He] cast firmly embedded mountains on the earth so that it would not move under you… (Qur'an, 31:10)

THE MOVEMENT OF MOUNTAINS

In one verse, we are informed that mountains are not motionless as they seem, but are in constant motion.

You see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds. (Qur'an, 27:88)

This motion of mountains is caused by the movement of the Earth's crust that they are located on. The Earth's crust "floats" over the mantle layer, which is denser. It was at the beginning of the 20th century when, for the first time in history, a German scientist by the name of Alfred Wegener proposed that the continents of the Earth had been attached together when it first formed, but then drifted in different directions, and thus separated as they moved away from each other.

Geologists understood that Wegener was right only in the 1980s, 50 years after his death. As Wegener pointed out in an article published in 1915, the land masses on the Earth were joined together about 500 million years ago, and this large mass, called Pangaea, was located in the South Pole.

Approximately 180 million years ago, Pangaea divided into two parts, which drifted in different directions. One of these giant continents was Gondwana, which included Africa, Australia, Antarctica and India. The second one was Laurasia, which included Europe, North America and Asia, except for India. Over the next 150 million years following this separation, Gondwana and Laurasia divided into smaller parts.

These continents, that emerged after the split of Pangaea, have been constantly moving on the Earth's surface at a rate of several centimetres per year, and in the meantime changing the sea to land ratios of the Earth.

Discovered as a result of the geological research carried out at the beginning of the 20th century, this movement of the Earth's crust is explained by scientists as follows:

The crust and the uppermost part of the mantle, with a thickness of about 100 kms., are divided into segments called plates. There are six major plates, and several small ones. According to the theory called plate tectonics, these plates move about on Earth, carrying continents and ocean floor with them. Continental motion has been measured at from 1-5 cm per year. As the plates continue to move about, this will produce a slow change in Earth's geography. Each year, for instance, the Atlantic Ocean becomes slightly wider.29

There is an important point that needs to be stated here: Allah referred to the motion of mountains as drifting in a verse of the Qur'an. Today, modern scientists also use the term "continental drift" for this motion.30

Continental drift is something that could not have been observed at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, though Allah clearly indicated how it was to be understood: "You see the mountains you reckoned to be solid" in the verse. Though, He further described this action in the following verse, stating that the mountains were going past like clouds. As has been indicated, attention is clearly drawn to the movement of the layer in which the mountains are fixed.

It is without doubt a great miracle that this scientific fact, only recently discovered by science, should have been revealed in the 7th century, when conceptions of the nature of the universe were based on superstition and myth. This is another very important proof that the Qur'an is the word of Allah.


DIFFERENT POINTS IN THE RISING AND SETTING OF THE SUN

No! I swear by the Lord of the Easts and Wests that We have the power. (Qur'an, 70:40)

Lord of the heavens and the earth and everything between them; Lord of the Easts. (Qur'an, 37:5)

The Lord of the two Easts and the Lord of the two Wests. (Qur'an, 55:17)

As can be discerned, the words east and west are used in the plural sense in the above verses. For instance, the word "mashariq," used in the first verse for "east," and the word "magharib" used for "west," are in plural form, indicating that there are two of each. The words "mashriqayn" and "maghribayn" in the last verse are used for two easts and two wests. "Mashariq" and "magharib" also mean the place where the Sun rises and sets. The above verses are therefore referring to different sites of the dawning and closing of the day. It is also worthy of note that the vow is taken by the Lord of "the easts and wests" in the first verse.

The axis around which the earth revolves itself is at an angle of 23° 27'. Due to that angle, and the spherical shape of the Earth, the light rays from the Sun do not always strike it at the same angle. This means that since the Sun's rays fall on that area at different angles, someone far away from the equator will observe the Sun rising at different points in the east and setting at different points in the west. The further away from the equator that person is the more different points he will identify for the dawning and closing of the day.

Someone at the equator, however, will always observe that the Sun rises exactly in the east and sets exactly in the west, since the Sun's rays always fall perpendicularly there. Bearing in mind that the Arabian peninsula is not that far from the equator, it would appear impossible for such an observation to be made there. That is because someone in that region would see that the Sun always rises at the same point, and always sets at the same point. The expression regarding east and west in the above verses may be indicating the Sun rising and setting at different points. (Allah knows best.)

LAND LOSS AT THE EXTREMITIES

Do they not see how We come to the land eroding it at its extremities?… (Qur'an, 13:41)

… Do they not see how We come to the land eroding it from its extremities?… (Qur'an, 21:44)


A HUGE BALL OF FIRE

Immense twisting solar eruptions are filled with ionised helium gas at a temperature of 60,000 degrees Centigrade. (As observed by the SOHO satellite in extreme ultraviolet light.)

The Earth is bombarded by proton, electron and alpha particles from the Sun. These solar winds are powerful enough to separate the atmosphere from the Earth. However, it will take about five times longer than the total life of the Sun at the Earth's present rate of matter loss (at most 3 kg per second.) for the atmosphere to be used up.31 That is because, thanks to the powerful magnetic field formed by the magnetosphere in the atmosphere, the Earth is to some extent protected from this powerful erosion. The loss of ions-oxygen, helium and hydrogen-dispersed over the Earth's ionosphere layer into the depths of space is of much smaller dimensions than the vast layer of air surrounding the Earth. Even so, the amount leaking into space is nevertheless of a significant size.32

Thanks to NASA spacecraft, researchers have obtained concrete evidence that energy explosions on the Sun cause oxygen and other gases to disperse into space from the outer layer of the Earth's atmosphere. Scientists first observed that the Earth experiences a loss of matter from its outer layers on September 24-25, 1998.33

However, the above verses may also be referring to the loss of land on Earth in another regard.

At the present time, the polar ice caps are melting and the water level in the oceans is rising. The increasing quantity of water is covering ever more land. As coastal areas come under water, the land surface or total amount of land is decreasing.34 The expression "eroding it from its extremities" in the above verses may well be pointing to coastal areas being covered by water.

A New York Times report on this subject reads:

Over the last century, the average surface temperature of the globe has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit, and the rate of warming has accelerated in the last quarter-century. That is a significant amount… Previous studies of satellite and submarine observations have seemed to establish a warming trend in the northern polar region and raise the possibility of a melting icecap. Scientists at the Goddard Space Science Institute, a NASA research center in Manhattan, compared data from submarines in the 1950's and 1960's with 1990's observations, demonstrating that the ice cover over the entire Arctic basin has thinned by 45 percent. Satellite images have revealed that the extent of ice coverage has significantly shrunk in recent years.35

The findings made towards the end of the 20th century help us to understand the wisdom of Surat ar-Ra'd 41, and Surat al-Anbiya' 44.

2. 8 minutes : Ultraviolet and x-ray emissions travelling at the speed of light can block out radio broadcasts.

3. 30 minutes: Charged particles at a high energy level can threaten satellites and high-flying jets.

4. Between 48 minutes and 96 hours: The Earth’s magnetic field is disrupted by mass solar particles. The effect of this is to endanger electricity networks.

5. THE MAGNETOSPHERE is a region in space occupied by the Earth’s magnetic field. It usually extends for 64,000 kilometres (40,000 miles) towards the Sun, although powerful solar storms can compress the magnetosphere to a mere 42,000 kilometres (26,000 miles), leaving satellites outside exposed to solar winds.

This loss at the extremities, as revealed by Allah, may be understood in light of another scientific fact revealed in the Qur'an. The fact that the Earth, which revolves around its own axis, has a geoid shape, is a fact that has gained acceptance in recent centuries.


Research has revealed that the Earth keeps bulging at the equator.

Research has revealed that the equatorial diameter of the Earth expands under the effect of the force stemming from this rotation, and that it is compressed at its extremities, in other words the poles. Furthermore, since the Earth is in constant rotation this change continues to occur. Indeed, the term "nanqusu" in Surat ar-Ra'd 41, translated as "eroding," shows that this process of erosion is an ongoing one.

It is the force of gravity that has given such celestial bodies as the Earth their spherical form. However, that shape is not exactly spherical; it flattens out somewhat at the poles and thickens at the equator. According to NASA figures, the radius of the Earth is 6,378.1 km (3,963.2 miles) at the equator but only 6,356.8 km (3,949.9 miles) from pole to pole.36 This is a difference of some 0.3%.

This model of the shape of the Earth was suggested by Sir Isaac Newton in 1687. This fact, revealed in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago, is another of its scientific miracles.

Caption: Research has revealed that the Earth keeps bulging at the equator.

Allah created the heavens and the earth with truth. There is certainly a Sign in that for the believers.
(Qur’an, 29:44)

THE SPLITTING EARTH

[I swear] by Heaven which returns and the earth which splits. (Qur'an, 86:11-12)

The Arabic word "sadA" in the above verse means "cracking, splitting apart." Allah's swearing by the splitting of the Earth points to an important phenomenon, as do the other scientific miracles in the Qur'an. Scientists first descended to the depths of the seas and oceans in order to study mineral resources in 1945-1946. One of the most important facts to emerge from that research was the fissured structure of the Earth. The rock layer on the external surface of the Earth was split by large numbers of cracks (faults), tens of thousands of kilometres long, running from north to south and east to west. Scientists also realised that there was molten magma under the sea, at depths of 100-150 km.

Due to these splits and cracks, lava flows from volcanoes on the sea bed. Due to this fissured structure, a significant amount of heat is also given off, and a large part of molten rocks forms the mountains under the oceans. If the Earth did not possess this structure, which allows large amounts of heat to escape from its crust, life on Earth would become impossible.37

There is no doubt that such information, which required such advanced technology to be discovered, being given 1,400 years ago is yet another proof that the Qur'an is the Word of Allah.

THE MIRACLE OF IRON

Iron is one of the elements highlighted in the Qur'an. In Surat al-Hadid, meaning Iron, we are informed:

And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)

Iron ingot

The word "anzalna," translated as "sent down" and used for iron in the verse, could be thought of having a metaphorical meaning to explain that iron has been given to benefit people. But, when we take into consideration the literal meaning of the word, which is, "being physically sent down from the sky," as in the case of rain and Sun rays, we realize that this verse implies a very significant scientific miracle. Because, modern astronomical findings have disclosed that the iron found in our world has come from giant stars in outer space.38

Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39

One scientific source provides the following information on this subject:

There is also evidence for older supernova events: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. An enhanced presence of this isotope in a geologic layer indicates the recent nucleosynthesis of elements nearby in space and their subsequent transport to the earth (perhaps as part of dust grains).40


Surat al-Hadid is the 57th in the Qur’an. The numerical value of the word “al-Hadid” in Arabic is 57. The numerical value of “hadid” on its own is 26. As can be seen from the periodic table to the side, 26 is the number of the iron atom. With the verse revealed in Surat al-Hadid Almighty Allah indicates how iron formed, and with the mathematical code contained in the verse He reveals to us a scientific miracle.

All this shows that iron did not form on the Earth, but was carried from Supernovas, and was "sent down," as stated in the verse. It is clear that this fact could not have been known in the 7th century, when the Qur'an was revealed. Nevertheless, this fact is related in the Qur'an, the Word of Allah, Who encompasses all things in His infinite knowledge.

Astronomy has also revealed that other elements also formed outside the Earth. In the expression "We also sent down iron" in the verse, the word "also" may well be referring to that idea. However, the fact that the verse specifically mentions iron is quite astounding, considering that these discoveries were made at the end of the 20th century. In his book Nature's Destiny, the well-known microbiologist Michael Denton emphasizes the importance of iron:

Of all the metals there is none more essential to life than iron. It is the accumulation of iron in the center of a star which triggers a supernova explosion and the subsequent scattering of the vital atoms of life throughout the cosmos. It was the drawing by gravity of iron atoms to the center of the primeval earth that generated the heat which caused the initial chemical differentiation of the earth, the outgassing of the early atmosphere, and ultimately the formation of the hydrosphere. It is molten iron in the center of the earth which, acting like a gigantic dynamo, generates the earth's magnetic field, which in turn creates the Van Allen radiation belts that shield the earth's surface from destructive high-energy-penetrating cosmic radiation and preserve the crucial ozone layer from cosmic ray destruction…

Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no supernovae, no heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere. There would be no protective magnetic field, no Van Allen radiation belts, no ozone layer, no metal to make hemoglobin [in human blood], no metal to tame the reactivity of oxygen, and no oxidative metabolism.

The intriguing and intimate relationship between life and iron, between the red color of blood and the dying of some distant star, not only indicates the relevance of metals to biology but also the biocentricity of the cosmos…41

This account clearly indicates the importance of the iron atom. The fact that particular attention is drawn to iron in the Qur'an also emphasises the importance of the element. In addition, there is another hidden truth in the Qur'an which draws attention to the importance of iron: Surat al-Hadid 25, which refers to iron, contains two rather interesting mathematical codes.

"Al- Hadid" is the 57th sura in the Qur'an. The abjad of the word "Al-Hadid" in Arabic, when the numerological values of its letters are added up, is also 57. (For abjad calculations see the section on Numerological Calculations (Abjad) in the Qur'an.)

The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron.

Moreover, iron oxide particles were used in a cancer treatment in recent months and positive developments were observed. A team led by Dr. Andreas Jordan, at the world famous Charité Hospital in Germany, succeeded in destroying cancer cells with this new technique developed for the treatment of cancer-magnetic fluid hyperthermia (high temperature magnetic liquid). As a result of this technique, first performed on the 26-year-old Nikolaus H., no new cancer cells were observed in the patient in the following three months.

This method of treatment can be summarised as follows:

1. A liquid containing iron oxide particles is injected into the tumour by means of a special syringe. These particles spread throughout the tumour cells. This liquid consists of thousands of millions of particles, 1,000 times smaller than the red blood corpuscles, of iron oxide in 1 cm3 that can easily flow through all blood vessels.42

2. The patient is then placed in a machine with a powerful magnetic field.

3. This magnetic field, applied externally, begins to set the iron particles in the tumour in motion. During this time the temperature in the tumour containing the iron oxide particles rises by up to 45 degrees.

In a few minutes the cancer cells, unable to protect themselves from the heat, are either weakened or destroyed. The tumour may then be completely eradicated with subsequent chemotherapy.43

In this treatment it is only the cancer cells that are affected by the magnetic field, since only they contain the iron oxide particles. The spread of this technique is a major development in the treatment of this potentially lethal disease. In the treatment of such a widespread disease as cancer, the use of the expression "iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind" (Qur'an, 57:25) in the Qur'an is particularly noteworthy. Indeed, in that verse, the Qur'an may be indicating the benefits of iron for human health. (Allah knows best.)

THE FORMATION OF PETROL

Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High: He Who created and moulded; He Who determined and guided; He Who brings forth green pasture, then makes it blackened stubble. (Qur'an, 87:1-5)

As we know, petrol forms from the remains of plants and animals in the sea. Once these have decayed on the sea bed after millions of years, all that is left are oily substances. These, under layers of mud and rock, then turn into petrol and gas. Movements in the Earth's crust sometimes lead to the sea petrifying and to the rocks containing petrol being buried thousands of metres deep. The petrol that forms sometimes leaks through the pores in the rock layers from several kilometres down, and rises to the surface, where it vaporises (turns into gas), leaving a mass of bitumen behind.

The three elements identified in the first four verses of Surat al-A'la parallel the formation of petroleum. It is quite likely that the term "almaraa," meaning pasture or meadow, refers to the organically-based substances in the formation of petroleum. The second word of note in the verse is "ahwa," used to describe blackish-green, greenish-black, dark or sooty colours. This word can be thought of as describing the waste plant matter accumulated underground gradually turning black, since these words are supported by a third word, "ghuthaan." The word "ghuthaan" translated as stubble, can also mean flood-water plants, plants brought together by waste matter being collected and dispersed around valleys, rubbish, leaves or foam. In addition to the connotation of "vomiting out" implied in the word, it may also be translated as "to flood forth vomited matter," and describes the way that the earth "vomits" forth petroleum. In fact, in the light of the formation of petroleum, the way it emerges, its foam-like appearance and its colour, one can better see with what wisdom were employed the words in the verses.

As has been discussed, the plant in the verse turning into a dark and viscous liquid bears a strong resemblance to the formation of petroleum. The description of such a formation over many years, at a time when the formation of petroleum was unknown, is without doubt another proof that the Qur'an is the revelation of Allah.

THE RELATIVITY OF TIME

Today, the relativity of time is a proven scientific fact. This was revealed by Einstein's theory of relativity during the early part of the 20th century. Until then, it was not known that time was relative, nor that it could change according to the circumstances. Yet, the renowned scientist Albert Einstein proved this fact by discovering the theory of relativity. He showed that time is dependent on mass and velocity.

However, the Qur'an had already included information about time's being relative! Some verses about the subject read:

… A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count. (Qur'an, 22:47)

He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure. (Qur'an, 32:5)

The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years. (Qur'an, 70:4)

The fact that the relativity of time is so definitely mentioned in the Qur'an, which began to be revealed in 610, is more evidence that it is a divine book.

note that the Qur'an said.


Hilali-Khan:
"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). , "

Khalifa:
"GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. , "

Am am happy and praise Allah for not letting you have any doubt about this verses.

yes Allah created seven heavens and of the earth the like there of. we all accepted it is seven,



The verses below inform us about the appearance of the seven layers of the atmosphere: i.e

Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers? (Qur'an, 71:15)


You can go find out more about this verse anywhere and come back with more of your argument.

This verse has clearly explain to you how the seven heaven are arranged i.e in layers. and according to the other verse that said, Allah created seven heaven and earth there of. i.e seven.

it is very easy for you to understand that the earth which is thereof of heaven is also created in seven ( in layers)

here is another verse where it is also clearly stated

He Who created the seven heavens in layers… (Qur'an, 67:3).\

I hope the Qur'an has been proven to you beyond reasonable doubt that non of its word has gone on confirmed


i decided to bring this out for you to see clearly.

Thanks for your time.

May You be guided to the right path. Ameen.
Peace

@experts,

Your reply above ^^ in post #68 is yet another copy-and-paste from various muslim sites; see, for example: QuranSource and HarunYahaya. Yet, it has huge holes which I'd like to address in just 3 basic points below.

Before I address them on 3 points, let me make a few observations:

experts:

The sky, described in the verse as being in layers, is without doubt the most perfect expression of the atmosphere. It is a great miracle that these facts, which could not possibly be discovered without the technology of the 20th century, were explicitly stated by the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

The problem is that the Quran was not speaking about any layers of the atmosphere or the sky in the verses where we read of 'seven heavens'. The technologies used today for meteorological and atmospherical studies reveal that the earth's atmosphere is divided into more than 12 layers, depending on the purposes and detail of any atmospheric study.  If, therefore, the Quran was speaking about 'seven layers' where we read 'seven heavens', then the Quran is factually wrong again!


Now, as to the three points to deal with your cut-and-paste reply:

(1)  Your Muslim scholar confuses 'seven heavens' for 'layers of earth's atmosphere' -

experts:

The word "heavens," which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.

The idea above is riddled with huge problems. Besides chapter 65:12, the Quran in several verses speaks about "seven heavens" [see Quran (2:29); (17:44); (23:86); (41:12); (67:3); and (71:15)]. In none of those verses does Allah speak about 'seven layers' of the earth's sky or atmosphere. In fact, Q. 2:29 would be patently wrong to assert that there are "seven regular heavens" because we know that the earth's atmosphere is NOT regular in its structure.

Secondly, 'heavens' cannot fit the meaning of 'universe' in the Quran - otherwise we would be reading 'seven regular universes' in Q. 2:29, or 'seven universes ~ one above another' in Q. 71:15. From these alone, we already see that your copy-and paste argument started off on the wrong footing!

(2)  Your Muslim scholar confuses the sources he cites -

experts:

Today, it is known that the world's atmosphere consists of different layers that lie on top of each other.¹⁹ Based on the criteria of chemical contents or air temperature, the definitions made have determined the atmosphere of the earth as seven layers.²⁰ According to the "Limited Fine Mesh Model (LFMMII)," a model of atmosphere used to estimate weather conditions for 48 hours, the atmosphere is also 7 layers.

It's sad to note that your muslim scholar has confused the gist of the references in the footnotes (19 [inactive] and 20) in the quote above. Both are given as:

[list]

¹⁹ Michael Pidwirny, “Atmospheric Layers,” 1996,
http://royal.okanagan.bc.ca/mpidwirn/atmosphereandclimate/atmslayers.html

²⁰ “Numerical Prediction Models used by NWS,” Integrated Publishing,
www.tpub.com/weather3/4-27.htm.

[/list]

According to the second link [20], we find that the "Limited Fine Mesh Model (LFMMII)" does not define the earth's atmosphere to be only 7 layers. The first thing we read there is that, "NWS currently uses several different numerical prediction models for different applications." The models discussed there include:

          ~  Limited Fine Mesh Model II
          ~  Nested Grid Model
          ~  Spectral Model
          ~  Three-Layer Global Model
          ~  Barotropic Mesh Model

This is what it says about the "Limited Fine Mesh Model (LFMMII)" -

[list]

The Limited Fine Mesh Model II (LFMII) is still used for many 48-hour forecasts. (These are called short-range forecasts. ) Basically, it forecasts seven layers of the atmosphere: a planetary-boundary layer 50 millibars (about 1,500 feet) above the surface; three evenly spaced layers in the troposphere, including a layer at the tropopause level; and three evenly spaced layers in the stratosphere, with the top layer at 50-millibars. See figure 4-3-1 for a diagram of the layer structure of the LFMII model. Forecasts at each layer are done on a grid with grid points about 116 kilometers apart at 45° latitude.

[/list]

When you check the figure 4-3-1and read further, you find how many layers each model forecasts:

          ~  Limited Fine Mesh Model II (LFMII) - forecasts 7 layers
          ~  Spectral Model (SM) - forecasts 12 layers
          ~  Nested Grid Model (NGM) - forecasts 16 layers
          ~  Three-Layer Global Model (3LGM) - forecasts 3 layers
          ~  Barotropic Mesh Model (BMM) - forecasts jet-stream movement

None of these models concludes that the entire earth's atmosphere is composed of either 7, 12, 16, or 3 layers. Instead, the number of layers they forecast is what is stated in the article on that page.

If you take the case of the "Limited Fine Mesh Model II (LFMII)", for example, it is said to forecast the following layers:

          ~  a planetary-boundary layer (PBL)
          ~  three evenly spaced layers in the troposphere
          ~  three evenly spaced layers in the stratosphere

Anyone can easily see that all the above DO NOT include the spheres higher than the stratosphere (such as the mesosphere, thermosphere, exosphere or magnetosphere). In other words, the 7 layers which the "Limited Fine Mesh Model II (LFMII)" forecasts occur in just two layers: the troposphere and the stratosphere. The planetary-boundary layer (PBL) is the bottom layer of the troposphere that is in contact with the surface of the earth.

These all show that your muslim scholar was confusing what he read about the "Limited Fine Mesh Model II (LFMII)" and had assumed that the '7 layers' which the LFMII forecasts are the totality of the earth's atmosphere. Duh! He should have wondered what was meant by the '16 layers' and '12 layers' of the atmosphere forecast by the NGM and SM respectively, instead of confusing the '7 layers' of the LFMII for what it does not mean.

(3)  Your Muslim scholar confuses the structure of the Atmosphere -

experts:
According to the modern geological definitions the seven layers of atmosphere are as follows:

1. Troposphere
2. Stratosphere
3. Mesosphere
4. Thermosphere
5. Exosphere
6. Ionosphere
7. Magnetosphere

Sorry, but 'modern geology' does not define the earth's atmosphere to be only seven layers.

Basically, the structure of the earth's atmosphere is defined in various ways, depending on particular references and the purpose(s) of any atmospheric study. For instance, we have seen already that there are various layers forecast by different numerical prediction models for different applications. Some of the models are used to forecast 3 layers, others are used to forecast 12 layers, and yet others for 16 layers.

From this, it is obvious that there are more than 7 layers of the earth's atmosphere:

[list]1.  sometimes you might find a very general/broad classification of the atmosphere between the lower part (homosphere) and the upper part (heterosphere);[/list]

[list]2. inbetween those two layers are further divisions into a general 5 layers: troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, and exosphere;[/list]

[list]3. if more detailed studies are involved, a further delineation is made where we find other layers inbetween the broad categorizations above (eg., ozonosphere, ionosphere, and magnetosphere).[/list]

[list]You may find this article from [url=http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Earth's_atmosphere]New World Encyclopedia[/url] helpful.[/list]

To tie it all up together, the earth's atmosphere is not made of only 7 layers - there are far more than that number, and depending on the detail involved in any study, we find the following list of more than 7 layers  -

[list][li]chemosphere[/li]
[li]exosphere[/li]
[li]heterosphere[/li]
[li]homosphere[/li]
[li]ionosphere[/li]
[li]magnetosphere[/li]
[li]mesosphere[/li]
[li]neutrosphere[/li]
[li]ozonosphere[/li]
[li]peplosphere[/li]
[li]pasmasphere[/li]
[li]stratosphere[/li]
[li]substratosphere[/li]
[li]thermosphere[/li]
[li]troposphere[/li][/list]

The list above of 15 layers above is not the total number of the layers of the earth's atmosphere (they are just the ones I remember for now off the top of my head and arranged alphabetically). You can check them out to verify that I'm not trying to hoodwink you by any means; and then you will find that your muslim scholars indeed have got it all mixed up and patently wrong to assert only 7 layers!

Carefully check the pic below - you will find more than 7 layers identified both on the right and left hand sides of the pic:

[list][img]http://www.kowoma.de/en/gps/additional/atmosphere_02.jpg[/img][/list]

[list]There are at least ten layers there:[/list]

[list]on the right side -
¹homosphere, ²heterosphere, ³ozonosphere, ⁴ionosphere;[/list]

[list]and on the left side -
⁵planetary boundary layer (PBL), ⁶troposphere,
⁷stratosphere, ⁸mesosphere, ⁹thermosphere, ¹⁰exosphere.[/list]

Once again, what has been demonstrated here is that your Muslim scholars are caught trying to bend the Quran to fit 7 layers of the earth's atmosphere. They did a very poor job, aside from confusing themselves on the various sources they gathered for their article. We have seen that the earth's atmosphere is divided into more than 7 layers; and even more than that, we know the Quran was ot speaking about the layers of the earth's atmosphere in those verses about 'seven heavens'.

At the end of the day, we are still waiting for the remaining SIX EARTHS of allah in the Quran 65:12 who claimed to have created SEVEN EARTHS. If no muslim can find the other six earths, the Quran simply got it factually wrong.

note that the Qur'an said.


Hilali-Khan:
"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). , "

Khalifa:
"GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. , "

Am am happy and praise Allah for not letting you have any doubt about this verses.

yes Allah created seven heavens and of the earth the like there of. we all accepted it is seven,



The verses below inform us about the appearance of the seven layers of the atmosphere: i.e

Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers? (Qur'an, 71:15)


You can go find out more about this verse anywhere and come back with more of your argument.

This verse has clearly explain to you how the seven heaven are arranged i.e in layers. and according to the other verse that said, Allah created seven heaven and earth there of. i.e seven.

it is very easy for you to understand that the earth which is thereof of heaven is also created in seven ( in layers)

here is another verse where it is also clearly stated

He Who created the seven heavens in layers… (Qur'an, 67:3).\

I hope the Qur'an has been proven to you beyond reasonable doubt that non of its word has gone on confirmed


i decided to bring this out for you to see clearly.

Thanks for your time.

May You be guided to the right path. Ameen.
Peace


what the Qur'an was referring to was clearly stated here.



But Mr. Don't be confused,

THE LAYERS OF THE EARTH

One item of information about the Earth given in the Qur'an is its similarity to the seven-layered sky:

It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)

he information in the above verse is confirmed in scientific sources, wherein it is explained that the Earth consists of seven strata. These, as scientists have identified, are:

1st layer: Lithosphere (water)

2nd layer: Lithosphere (land)

3rd layer: Asthenosphere

4th layer: Upper Mantle

5th layer: Inner Mantle

6th layer: Outer Core

7th layer: Inner Core

The word lithosphere is derived from the Greek word lithos, meaning stone, which is a hard stratum forming the Earth's top layer. It is quite thin in comparison to the other strata. The lithosphere under the oceans is still thinner, and is a region with volcanic activity. Its average thickness is 80 km. It is colder and harder than the other strata, and therefore, forms the earth's shell.

Below the lithosphere is the stratum known as the asthenosphere, from the Greek word for "weak," asthenes. This layer is thinner than the lithosphere and shifts. It was formed of hot, semi-solid substances capable of melting when exposed to high temperatures and pressure over geological time. It is thought that the hard lithosphere floats or moves over the slowly moving asthenosphere.23 Under these layers is a high-temperature layer some 2,900 km thick, made up of semi-solid rock known as the mantle. This contains more iron, magnesium and calcium than the crust, and is also hotter and denser, because temperature and density in the Earth increase with depth.

At the centre of the Earth is the core, approximately twice as dense as the mantle. The reason for that density is that it contains a higher proportion of metals (iron-nickel alloy) than rock. The Earth's core consists of two parts. One is the 2,200 km thick liquid outer core, the other a 1,250 km thick solid inner core. The liquid outer core provides the Earth's magnetic field as the planet rotates.

The truth of this similarity between the sky and the layers of the Earth, only identified by 20th century technology, is without doubt another of the Qur'an's scientific miracles.


I keep wondering if you think you are the only one that know it all, but sorry this is not a matter of just ordinary knowledge, but the knowledge of truth.

You keep saying i plagiarized, but this is the revelation of the truth.

Most of what you keep pasting here are also on many other site, like answering islam,islam- watch and many others, yet you claim i plagiarized.

But for your information, i have learn from most of these writers and i have access to there works. i read and understand them, i pass the message to the world. i have written some of mine as topic of assignment, they read and commend me aswell.

I keep laughing at you when you accused me of plagiarizing yet ,that's what you are doing.

anyway open your heart to the truth so that you can be saved.

Below are the views of Islam and Christianity based on primary source texts and core beliefs.

ISLAM


1. Do Muslims believe he was a Messenger of One God? YES

Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a fundamental article of faith in Islam. Thus, believing in Prophets Adam, Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them) is a requirement for anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim. A person claiming to be a Muslim who, for instance, denies the Messengership of Jesus, is not considered a Muslim.

The Quran says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger:

"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75).


2. Do Muslims believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

Like Christians, Muslims believe Mary, Maria in Spanish, or Maryam as she is called in Arabic, was a chaste, virgin woman, who miraculously gave birth to Jesus.

"Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It was a matter so decreed" (Quran 19:16-21).


3. Do Muslims believe Jesus had a miraculous birth? YES

The Quran says:

"She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).

It should also be noted about his birth that:

"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).


4. Do Muslims believe Jesus spoke in the cradle? YES

"Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " (19:29-30).

5. Do Muslims believe he performed miracles? YES

Muslims, like Christians believe Jesus performed miracles. But these were performed by the will and permission of God, Who has power and control over all things.

"Then will God say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit (the angel Gabriel) so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold: you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the children of Israel from (violence to you) when you did show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic' (5:110).


6. Do Muslims believe in the Trinity? NO

Muslims believe in the Absolute Oneness of God, Who is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, needs and wants. He has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.

God says in the Quran regarding the Trinity:

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).


7. Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the son of God? NO

"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).

The Quran also states:

"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).


8. Do Muslims believe Jesus was killed on the cross then resurrected? NO

"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .




CHRISTIANITY


1. Do Christians believe Jesus was a human being and Messenger of God? YES & NO

With the exception of Unitarian Christians, who like all the early followers of Jesus, still do not believe in the Trinity, most Christians now believe in the Divinity of Jesus, which is connected to the belief in Trinity. They say he is the second member of the Triune God, the Son of the first part of the Triune God, and at the same time "fully" God in every respect.


2. Do Christians believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

A chaste and pious human woman who gave birth to Jesus Christ, the second member of the Trinity, the Son of God, and at the same time "fully" God Almighty in every respect.

Christians believe however, that while she was a virgin, she was married to a man named Joseph (Bible: Matthew:1:18). According to Matthew 1:25, Joseph "kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus".


3. Do Christians believe he had a miraculous birth? YES

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows. When His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit" (Bible: Matthew 1:18)


4. Do Christians believe he performed miracles? YES

"And now, Lord, look upon their threats, and grant to thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness, while thou stretches out thy hand to heal, and sign and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus (Bible: Acts 4:30).

Christians believe that Jesus performed these miracles because he was the Son of God as well as the incarnation of God.


5. Do Christians believe in the Trinity? YES

With the exception of the Unitarian Christians, who do not believe in the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, according to the Catholic encyclopedia, is the term used for the central doctrine of the Christian religion. The belief is that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons or beings are distinct from each another, while being similar in character: uncreated and omnipotent.

The First Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains "hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness" (Const., "De fide. cath.", iv). The First Vatican Council further defined that the Christian Faith contains mysteries strictly so called (can. 4). All theologians admit that the doctrine of the Trinity is of the number of these. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes that of all revealed truths, this is the most impenetrable to reason.



6. Do Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God? YES
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him (Bible: John 3:16).

However, it is interesting to note that the term "son of God" is used in other parts of the Bible to refer to Adam (Bible: Luke 3:38), Israel (Bible: Exodus 4:22) and David (Bible: Psalms 2:7) as well. The creatures of God are usually referred to in the Bible as children of God.


The role of Paul of Tarsus in shaping this belief and the belief in Trinity

The notion of Jesus as son of God is something that was established under the influence of Paul of Tarsus (originally named Saul), who had been an enemy of Jesus, but later changed course and joined the disciples after the departure of Jesus.

Later, however, he initiated a number of changes into early Christian teachings, in contradiction, for instance, to disciples like Barnabas, who believed in the Oneness of God and who had actually lived and met with Jesus.

Paul is considered by a number of Christian scholars to be the father of Christianity due to his additions of the following ideas:

that Jesus is the son of God,

the concept of Atonement,

the renunciation of the Law of the Torah.

Paul did these things in hopes of winning over the Gentiles (non-Jewish people). His letters are another of the primary sources of information on Jesus according to the Christian tradition.

The original followers of Prophet Jesus opposed these blatant misrepresentations of the message of Jesus. They struggled to reject the notion of the Divinity of Jesus for close to 200 years.

One person who was an original follower of Jesus was Barnabas. He was a Jew born in Cyrus and a successful preacher of the teachings of Jesus. Because of his closeness to Jesus, he was an important member of the small group of disciples in Jerusalem who had had gathered together following the disappearance of Jesus.

The question of Jesus's nature, origin and relationship with God was not raised amongst Barnabas and the small group of disciples. Jesus was considered a man miraculously endowed by God. Nothing in the words of Jesus or the events in his life led them to modify this view.

The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 CE Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy. He quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This indicates that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity.

In 325 (CE), a council of Christian leaders met at Nicaea and made Paul's beliefs officially part of Christian doctrine. It also ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script which contradicted Paul's beliefs should be destroyed. An edict was issued that anyone in possession of these Gospels would be put to death.

The Gospel of Barnabas has miraculously survived though.


7. Do Christians believe he was killed on the cross? YES
This is a core Christian belief and it relates to the concept of atonement. According to this belief, Jesus died to save mankind from sin. However, this is not stated explicitly in the four gospels which form the primary source texts of Christianity. It is found, however, in Romans 6:8,9.

Christians believe Jesus was spat on, cut, humiliated, kicked, striped and finally hung up on the cross to endure a slow and painful death.

According, to Christian belief, the original sin of Adam and Eve of eating from the forbidden tree was so great that God could not forgive it by simply willing it, rather it was necessary to erase it with the blood of a sinless, innocent Jesus.


Resurrection

The four Gospels and the Epistles of St. Paul are the main sources of Christianity which discuss the Resurrection of Jesus after his crucifixion. According to St. Matthew, Jesus appeared to the holy women, and again on a mountain in Galilee. Mark's Gospel tells a different story: Jesus was seen by Mary Magdalene, by the two disciples at Emmaus, and the Eleven before his Ascension into heaven.

Luke's Gospel says Jesus walked with the disciples to Emmaus, appeared to Peter and to the assembled disciples in Jerusalem. In John's Gospel, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene, to the ten Apostles on Easter Sunday, to the Eleven a week later, and to seven disciples at the Sea of Tiberias.

Another account of the resurrection by St. Paul is found in Bible: Corinthians 15: 3-8.

According to Christian belief, Resurrection is a manifestation of God's justice, Who exalted Christ to a life of glory, as Christ had humbled himself unto death (Phil., 2: 8-9). This event also completes the mystery of Christian salvation and redemption. The death of Jesus frees believers from sin, and with his resurrection, he restores to them the most important privileges lost by sin (Bible: Romans 4:25).

More importantly, the belief in the resurrection of Jesus indicates Christian acknowledgment of Christ as the immortal God, the cause of believers' own resurrection (Bible: I Corinthians 4: 21; Phil., 3:20-21), as well as the model and the support of a new life of grace (Bible: Romans 4: 4-6; 9-11).

@experts,

It's quite amusing that you keep copying-and-pasting other people's arguments. The latest above ^^ in post #75 is another one that appears in muslim websites - for example: HarunYahya and AssataShakur. Nonetheless, they are still patently wrong on many counts, some of which I have discussed already in post #67.

It would've been far better for you to reason from your own understanding instead of your plagiarising exercises. How long are you going to keep running to other people's arguments that have been debunked already?

experts:

yes Allah created seven heavens and of the earth the like there of. we all accepted it is seven,

So where are Allah's seven earths? We know of only one earth - so please show us where the other six earths are located. The Quran does not claim that there are "seven layers" of the earth, so the argument to now make that verse (Quran 65:12) into seven layers is patently wrong! Also, the layers of the earth that you listed are WRONG! If you're wrong about the Quran and wrong about the list of earth's structure, what is left of your cut-and-paste?!?

Besides, do you know of any source where either Allah or Muhammad told you that the "seven earths" are seven layers of the earth? Where?!? It is not in your Quran (I've finished reading the English translation) - and I can't find it in the hadiths (which I'm still reading). Please if you know of any place where Allah or Muhammad claimed that the SEVEN EARTHS are 'layers of the earth' like lithosphere, mantle, asthenosphere, etc - POST THE VERSES AND LET'S READ THEM FOR OURSELVES, thanks.

experts:

The verses below inform us about the appearance of the seven layers of the atmosphere: i.e

    Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers? (Qur'an, 71:15)

We've been through this fallacy of yours already. The Quran did not claim that the 'seven heavens' are the layers of the atmosphere; and we have seen that there are FAR MORE THAN SEVEN LAYERS of the earth's atmosphere! Why are you making your Quran to say what it does not say?

Let me remind you again of some of the spheres of the earth's atmosphere:

[list][li]chemosphere[/li]
[li]exosphere[/li]
[li]heterosphere[/li]
[li]homosphere[/li]
[li]ionosphere[/li]
[li]magnetosphere[/li]
[li]mesosphere[/li]
[li]neutrosphere[/li]
[li]ozonosphere[/li]
[li]peplosphere[/li]
[li]pasmasphere[/li]
[li]stratosphere[/li]
[li]substratosphere[/li]
[li]thermosphere[/li]
[li]troposphere[/li][/list]

These are some of the scientific divisions of the earth's atmosphere, and your muslim scholars don't seem to have grasped it yet. Instead, they are busy ignoring these facts and posting only seven so they can force the Quran to say what it does not say at all.

Second, the divisions which your muslim scholars make are not consistent. Go through the various lists they give about the layers of the atmosphere or the layers of the earth - they are not the same and are not consistent, not to mention that they are wrong.

For example, look at the list below:

experts:

1st layer: Lithosphere (water)
2nd layer: Lithosphere (land)
3rd layer: Asthenosphere
4th layer: Upper Mantle
5th layer: Inner Mantle
6th layer: Outer Core
7th layer: Inner Core

There are other layers of the earth's structure that are missing. However, for simplicity, let's not confuse the layer called 'water' - it is usually called 'hydrosphere'.

However, if we have to look at a more detailed list of the earth's structure, then from the following sources:
[list][li]SolarViews[/li][/list]
[list][li]MoorlandSchool[/li][/list]
[list][li]Merriam Webster[/li][/list]

we gather the structure of the earth as including:

[list][li]Continental crust (or, continental lithosphere)[/li]
[li]Oceanic crust (or, oceanic lithosphere)[/li]
[li]Mohorovičić discontinuity[/li]
[li]Asthenosphere[/li]
[li]Upper mantle[/li]
[li]Lower mantle[/li]
[li]Mesoshpere (middle mantle)[/li]
[li]'D' Layer[/li]
[li]Outer core[/li]
[li]Inner core[/li]
[li]Gutenberg Discontinuity[/li][/list]

That's definitely more than 10 layers; and no source would argue that there are only 7 layers. Here are some images to help you understand why they are MORE THAN 7 LAYERS:

[list]
~  from Merriam Webster[/list]

[list]
~ showing D' layer, from Solarviews[/list]

From all the above, it should be clear to you that your muslim scholars got it all mixed up and factually wrong! You need to go back and get a good grasp of what your Quran is saying. If we were to take your muslim scholars' interpretations so far, then the Quran would be seriously contradicting the facts on ground and therefore utterly bursting your arguments.

experts:

The truth of this similarity between the sky and the layers of the Earth, only identified by 20th century technology, is without doubt another of the Qur'an's scientific miracles.

20th century technology demonstrates that there are both more than seven layers of the earth's structure and atmosphere in either case. The lists I gave earlier showed that the earth has more than 10 layers in its internal structure as well more than 10 spheres in its atmosphere. Therefore, what we see is that the Quran is NOT scientific nor miraculous.

experts:

You can go find out more about this verse anywhere and come back with more of your argument.

I don't need to go very far to find out anything other than what I have already shown you. Unless you want us to post what your own muslim scholars have said about such verses in the Quran - which I could most gladly do.

Recalling Quran 65:12 in two of your preferred English translations (Khalifa and Hilali-Khan):

Khalifa:
GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. . .

Hilali-Khan:
It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven).

. . . it is either it is "universes" that are meant (according to Khalifa) - which is NOT the same thing as the layers of the atmosphere; or it is "seven earths" (according to Hilali-khan) - which is NOT the same as layers of the earth's structure.

This is what I found in one of such interpretations of the verse [Quran 65:12] -

[list]

{ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَٰوَٰتٍ وَمِنَ ٱلأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ ٱلأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِّتَعْلَمُوۤاْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ ٱللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْماً }

God it is Who created seven heavens, and of earth the like thereof, that is to say, seven earths. The command, the revelation, descends between them, between the heavens and the earth: Gabriel descends with it from the seventh heaven to the seventh earth, that you may know (li-ta‘lamū is semantically connected to an omitted clause, that is to say, ‘He apprises you of this creation and this sending down [that you may know]’), that God has power over all things and that God encompasses all things in knowledge.

source: Tafsir al-Jalalayn -
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=65&tAyahNo=12&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

[/list]

In such a 'tafsir' (interpretation of the Quran), two things are highlighted from your muslim scholars:

1.   they argue that Allah created "seven earths" - they did not interprete that as 'seven layers of the earth'. If that is so, then nobody needs to argue long and hard about 'layers' of the earth, because that is not what the Quran claimed in Q. 65:12.

2.   they tell us that Gabriel descended from the "seventh heaven" to the "seventh earth" - but what does this mean? If we are to go by the interpretations of your mullahs, then we would be reading that Gabriel descended from 'the magnetosphere' (your 'seventh heaven') down to the 'inner core' (your 'seventh layer' of the earth). You already see that such a proposition is not supported even remotely by your Quran or the hadiths. Your Quran is not scientific nor miraculous, and your muslim scholars have got it all confused and wrong.

As regards the above ^^^ let me reiterate:

viaro: 2.   they tell us that Gabriel descended from the "seventh heaven" to the "seventh earth" - but what does this mean?

The bigger question, however, is this: What did Muhammad mean by the seven earths?

We do not read anywhere in the Quran about 'seven layers of the earth' - NOT IN ANY VERSE. And there is no support in the Quran for the idea of lithosphere, mantle, asthenosphere, or core in any verse - no matter what your mullahs may say. Instead, what we read is just "seven earths" and no explanation given about any layer of the earth.

Therefore, the only way one could get any understanding of what Muhammad meant by the 'seven earths' is to seek connections about that clause both in the Quran and other authentic sources of Islamic history and theology.


1. The Seven Heavens - Hadiths

There are several hadith verses that speak about seven heavens and their descriptions according to Muhammad. The reader should please bear in mind that these have absolutely nothing to do with any sphere of the atmosphere in the geosciences. Muslims who are claiming that the 'seven heavens' in the Quran are pointing to the seven layers of the earth's atmosphere will find quite a task indeed to explain away the fallacy of that notion in the face of what Muhammad described in these hadiths:

[list]

Sahih Bukhari: Narrated Malik bin Sasaa: The Prophet said, "While I was at the House in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness, (an angel recognized me) as the man lying between two men. A golden tray full of wisdom and belief was brought to me and my body was cut open from the throat to the lower part of the abdomen and then my abdomen was washed with Zam-zam water and (my heart was) filled with wisdom and belief. Al-Buraq, a white animal, smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me and I set out with Gabriel. When I reached the nearest heaven. Gabriel said to the heaven gate-keeper, 'Open the gate.' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' He said, 'Gabriel.' The gate-keeper,' Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' The gate-keeper said, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' Then it was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' Then I met Adam and greeted him and he said, 'You are welcomed O son and a Prophet.'

Sahih Bukhari: Then we ascended to the second heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was said, 'Who is with you?' He said, 'Muhammad' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' He said, 'Yes.' It was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!" Then I met Jesus and Yahya (John) who said, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet.'

Sahih Bukhari: Then we ascended to the third heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is with you? Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' 'Yes,' said Gabriel. 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' (The Prophet added. There I met Joseph and greeted him, and he replied, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet!'

Sahih Bukhari: Then we ascended to the 4th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met Idris and greeted him. He said, 'You are welcomed O brother and Prophet.'[/color]

Sahih Bukhari: Then we ascended to the 5th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in previous heavens. there I met and greeted Aaron who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and a Prophet".

Sahih Bukhari: Then we ascended to the 6th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Moses who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and. a Prophet.' When I proceeded on, he started weeping and on being asked why he was weeping, he said, 'O Lord! Followers of this youth who was sent after me will enter Paradise in greater number than my followers.'

Sahih Bukhari: Then we ascended to the seventh heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Abraham who said, 'You are welcomed o son and a Prophet.' Then I was shown Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur (i.e. Allah's House). I asked Gabriel about it and he said, This is Al Bait-ul-Ma'mur where 70,000 angels perform prayers daily and when they leave they never return to it (but always a fresh batch comes into it daily).'

sources:
Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 54, Number 429
Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 5, Book 58, Number 227
Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 9, Book 93, Number 608

see also:
Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0309
Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0314
[/list]

Anyone who reads the source will see immediately that I only quoted the relevant parts of the sahih hadiths instead of quoting the very lengthy verses. What is obvious, however, is that Muhammad's descriptions of the seven heavens have nothing to do with the geosciences nor the seven layers of the earth's atmosphere. Yet, it is interesting  to see what he said about these various heavens -

[list][li]he 'met' Adam in the 'nearest heaven' (ie., the 'first heaven')[/li]
[li]he 'met' Jesus and Yahya (John) in the 'second heaven'[/li]
[li]he 'met' Joseph in the 'third heaven'[/li]
[li]he 'met' Idris in the fourth heaven[/li]
[li]he 'met' Aaron in the fifth heaven[/li]
[li]he 'met' Moses in the sixth heaven[/li]
[li]he 'met' Abraham in the seveth heaven[/li][/list]

There are huge questions to ask you, mr experts: if the seven heavens are the seven layers of the earth's atmosphere, then -

1.   is Adam in the 'nearest heaven' (ie., Troposphere)?
2.  are Jesus and Yahya (John) in the 'second heaven' (ie., Stratosphere)?
3.  is Joseph in the 'third heaven' (ie., Mesosphere)?
4.  is Idris (Enoch) in the '4th heaven' (ie., Thermosphere)?
5.  is Aaron in the 'fifth heaven' (ie., Exosphere)?
6.  is Moses in the 'sixth heaven' (ie., Ionosphere)?
7.  is Abraham in the 'seventh heaven' (ie., Magnetosphere)?

. . . most important, in which of the 'seven layers' of the atmosphere
      is Muhammad himself to be found today?!?

You see, mr experts, the effort of Muslim scholars to force the Quran to say what it does not say only makes them quite untenable and a huge fallacy! The Quran does not speak about any layers of the atmosphere; and there are far more than 12 layers of the earth's atmosphere - more than that, Muhammad did not speak about any of those layers of the atmosphere; which from the hadiths only result in further confusion of the 'seven heavens' of Islamic eschatology. The one thing that is definite here is this: the muslim apologists who are talking about the atmosphre of the earth are only confusing themselves in that fallacy.

experts:

I keep wondering if you think you are the only one that know it all, but sorry this is not a matter of just ordinary knowledge, but the knowledge of truth.

I did not claim to know it all; but I'm fascinated by the gull of Muslim apologists who are deceiving themselves on their own ready-made fallacies in order to force the Quran to say what it does not say.

experts:

You keep saying i plagiarized, but this is the revelation of the truth.

I still challenge you to deny the fact that you plagiarised, copied-and-pasted, and "lifted" other people's articles of fallacies pretending to be 'the truth'. Sad thing is that all the plagiarised materials you posted in this thread have been debunked.

experts:

Most of what you keep pasting here are also on many other site,  like answering islam,islam- watch and many others, yet you claim i plagiarized.

Please show me where I plagiarised even one argument to post in response to yours. JUST ONE will do. I have shown where you can read responses to your own copy-and-paste (such as "Sam Shamoun's article" in post #64); but even at that, I have not plagiarised anybody's work and dressed them to look like my own, unlike what you have done repeatedly in this thread!

experts:
But for your information, i have learn from most of these writers and i have access to there works. i read and understand them, i pass the message to the world. i have written some of mine as topic of assignment, they read and commend me aswell.

FYI, most of what you plagiarise and dubbed from are conclusive fallacies - that is what I have addressed and the record is still up there for your consideration. The reason why you never address them is because you can't find any ready-made article to plagiarise as responses to my rejoinders, so no biggies there.

experts:

I keep laughing at you when you accused me of plagiarizing yet ,that's what you are doing.

I'm still asking you to show me where I plagiarised anybody's article. At the very least, where I have caught you doing that very thing, I have lift you links to verify them. You, on the other hand, can only accuse me of what you cannot prove - quite a pity.

For now, we know that your Quran is not scientific nor miraculous. The arguments of your apologists on the seven heavens and seven earths are fallacies which have been forced to make the Quran say what it does not say at all. The Quran does not say that allah created seven layers of the earth - it said that Allah created SEVEN EARTHS (Q. 65:12) and we don't need rocket science to know that there is only ONE EARTH.

Bottomline: please show me where the other SIX EARTHS of Allah are located. You only show that the Quran got it wrong, and is neither scientific nor miraculous, if you keep making excuses and are unable to show the OTHER SIX EARTHS of Allah (not six layers which the Quran never claims), not to mention that Muhammad's 'seven heavens' are a fallacy in his night dream.

. . . most important, in which of the 'seven layers' of the atmosphere
is Muhammad himself to be found today?!?

Perhaps you should be more concerned with the whereabouts of Elijah no?

Deep Sight:

Perhaps you should be more concerned with the whereabouts of Elijah no?

Why should I be more concerned about the whereabouts of Elijah? Did the Bible claim Allah created the seven earths of Muhammad's theology?

^^^ Oh please. Are we forgetting so soon your interesting suppositions that Elijah -

1. Never died

2. Vanished into thin air

3. Entered heaven with his physical body.

4. Appeared beside Jesus at the transfiguration again with said same physical body after residing with it in heaven for some relaxing centuries.

Grand assertions, sir.

What fanciful stories do you have for us today, Viaro?

And thus Deep Sight is poised to derail the thread into another possible multi-page scuffle.

Deep Sight:

^^^ Oh please. Are we forgetting so soon your interesting suppositions that Elijah -

I don't have the short memory you often display, sorry. There was nothing you were able to show that came close to intelligence in that discourse; and I could bet you're not intelligent enough to see that this thread is not about Elijah. If you miss viaro, say so and I can oblige you another exile.

1. Never died

Did I argue to the contrary?

2. Vanished into thin air

Your call - the Muslim in this thread did not show us where Muhammad might've seen Elijah among the seven layers of his Muslim atmosphere. Wanna help him?

3. Entered heaven with his physical body.

I have absolutely no problem with that.

4. Appeared beside Jesus at the transfiguration again with said same physical body after residing with it in heaven for some relaxing centuries.

Yes. And your point is. . .?

Grand assertions, sir.

Yours, I guess. I was hoping where you would have helped the Muslim apologist here vote for any number of his seven earths that the Bible does not argue.

What fanciful stories do you have for us today, Viaro?

Relax . . . I'm still hearing news from the grapevine that you are running errand on your pyjamas. Please leave that Gulder bottle alone so you can think really deep.

InesQor:

And thus Deep Sight is poised to derail the thread into another possible multi-page scuffle.

Did you expect anything better from his derailing trips?

Well first off I am not derailing the thread. Just putting an interesting spin on the discussion.

The thread is about the authenticity of the bible.

It is thus altogether apposite to examine biblical claims with a view towards adducing what authenticity a rational mind may attribute to that book.

In this the interpretations given by adherents of the bible are of course invaluable.

So Elijah is a great case exactly because the discussion had veered towards a muslim claim regarding a visit into various "heavens."

If we are to be objective and fair, it only makes sense to challenge similar claims within the Bible.

Thus with this -

viaro:

I don't have the short memory you often display, sorry. There was nothing you were able to show that came close to intelligence in that discourse; and I could bet you're not intelligent enough to see that this thread is not about Elijah. If you miss viaro, say so and I can oblige you another exile.

Did I argue to the contrary?

Your call - the Muslim in this thread did not show us where Muhammad might've seen Elijah among the seven layers of his Muslim atmosphere. Wanna help him?

I have absolutely no problem with that.

Yes. And your point is. . .?

Yours, I guess. I was hoping where you would have helped the Muslim apologist here vote for any number of his seven earths that the Bible does not argue.

Relax . . . I'm still hearing news from the grapevine that you are running errand on your pyjamas. Please leave that Gulder bottle alone so you can think really deep.

- I am satisfied that you sir, have confirmed in open court what i indicated were your claims to wit -

Deep Sight:


. . . Your interesting suppositions that Elijah -

1. Never died

2. Vanished into thin air

3. Entered heaven with his physical body.

4. Appeared beside Jesus at the transfiguration again with said same physical body after residing with it in heaven for some relaxing centuries.

Now as the discussion is now about “heavens,” let us juxtapose the muslim claims above against your interesting claims regarding Elijah zapping off to heaven with his physical body.

Now before proceeding might I remind you that your own holy book (the bible) specifically states that physical bodies do not reside in spiritual realms. Nevertheless perhaps we can leave the Bible for a moment and reflect on exactly what spirituality entails.

God is an intangible transcendental being. It is well understood that God is not physical.

We also understand that the spiritual is not the physical.

Spiritual things are not tangible in the fashion that physical things are.

I think that it is apt to re examine your understanding of that which is spiritual, if you will suggest that physical bodies ascend bodily and dwell physically in spiritual realms.

The very existence of death – a separation of the body from the spirit, if you will reflect, is enough to evince this. The spirit leaves the body because material things are adjusted to material realms while immaterial things are adjusted to immaterial realms. This is the very reason that the spirit of man requires a physical body to dwell on earth, which is a material realm. Only when that body is set aside can the intangible spirit return to its intangible realm.

The very words “immaterial” and “intangible” as attributes of the spiritual make it resoundingly clear that it is inconceivable for a material thing to “enter” into something or someplace that is altogether intangible!

Supposing that a physical body such as ours may dwell in a realm which is altogether intangible is absolutely illogical in the extreme – given the very fact of the intangibility of that realm.

Again the very make of the physical body is designed to deal with a physical atmosphere – in all its functions. Do you really suppose such a body with such functionalities can enter into a realm said to be intangible?

In that case I would really be puzzled as to your understanding of the word “intangible.”

I want you to understand that mankind’s spiritual journey is a journey of increasing intangibility and thus a journey of increasing purity towards God. The physical body is thus but a coat which is used for the physical realm – and as we move on after death we proceed ever more intangible.

I verily fear that your bold affirmation that your prophet bagged his physical body into an immaterial realm and remained there with it before returning in same body centuries later to this earth is so bizarre, mythical and off-centre that if interpreted that way, all rational persons must perforce conclude that the Bible contains really simplistic myths and legends. Or that you are simply ready to believe very strange myths indeed. At the expense of that which is simple, rational and balanced.

And that is the issue of this thread. . . the authenticity of the bible.

As a post-script I should mention that I did point out that your interpretation of the Elijah story amounts to exempting him from death even before the sacrifice of Christ – which was supposedly required to save mankind from death. This shows up serious internal inconsistencies, I’m afraid, and again begs the Ops question as to the authenticity (or I would say, believability) of your scriptures.

Deep Sight:

Well first off I am not derailing the thread. Just putting an interesting spin on the discussion.

The thread is about the authenticity of the bible.

It is thus altogether apposite to examine biblical claims with a view towards adducing what authenticity a rational mind may attribute to that book.

In this the interpretations given by adherents of the bible are of course invaluable.

I have news for you. Have you ever read 'somewhere' that someone who tries to wade into a discussion before he first determines the matter is quite foolish? That's precisely what you're demonstrating here on your errand trip - and that 'somewhere' happens to be Proverbs 18:13.

You should not be carried away by the title of the thread. Read first the arguments in the OP - and that was what I addressed: nothing more or less. It was not about examining Biblical doctrines, but one that was rather a question of whether -[list]

of all the religions mentioned above, does any one of them possess their scriptures in its entirety BOTH in writing AND in memory from the day of its revelation until our time

[/list]

The OP proceeds to claim that infact a yes could be adduced to that basic question for the Quran, whereas it could not be so said about the Bible. My answer was this:[list]

Almost certainly not. We know that transcribing any document may involve certain problems with preservation, which again may affect other areas such as original manuscripts, translation difficulties and authenticity of content and style.

[/list]

Therefore, were it a question of Biblical doctrines, my answer would be different - as was the case in other threads where Muslims have tried to argue that Muhammad was the Prophet to come in Deuteronomy 18, which is not true.

Consequently, this thread was neither a question of "examin(ing) biblical claims" nor of "interpretations given by adherents of the bible". The discussions so far has not been about claims anywhere in any verse of the Bible that 'Allah created SEVEN EARTHS' or any claims about "seven heavens turning out to be layers of the atmosphere". You ought to have carefully followed the gist of this thread before throwing your misadventures into the so-called 'mix' and ending up showing how redundant you can be.

Deep Sight:

So Elijah is a great case exactly because the discussion had veered towards a muslim claim regarding a visit into various "heavens."

The discussion did not veer into various heavens to bring in Elijah. I don't see anywhere in our posts (between the OP's and my rejoinders) where Elijah is mentioned in any sphere of the atmosphere - the sphere of the atmosphere being what the OP copied-and-pasted from some of his muslim apologists. I wanted to know where the Quran claims anything about the "seven heavens" becoming the spheres of the atmospheres, if anything at all - and that is what the whole talk about the "seven heavens" was about, rather than about Elijah.

Deep Sight:

If we are to be objective and fair, it only makes sense to challenge similar claims within the Bible.

You're being deceitful, not fair. WHERE is there any such "similar claims" in the Bible that answers to what the Quran claims in Sura 65:12?!? Are you so far gone that you just drag yourself along heavily with your penchant to be so currish?

FYI, this is what the Quran says in Sura 65:12 -

[list]Hilali-Khan:
"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). ,  "

Khalifa:
"GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. ,  "[/list]

If your misadventures of "similar claims" for the case of the Bible has any substance to it, please tell me: WHERE does the Bible make such a "similar claim" that God created SEVEN EARTHS?!?

If you don't know the meaning of words (which you certainly demonstrate you don't), then it is little wonder that you assume a similarity of claims where there is none on this issue of the SEVEN EARTHS that we have been discussing so far. Please show me where the Bible ever makes a "similar claim"  as the Quran did in chapter 65:12, instead of spewing out your duplicity.

Deep Sight:

Thus with this -

- I am satisfied that you sir, have confirmed in open court what i indicated were your claims to wit -

Please shut up and get lost! I am not in any courts - open or closed, and if you're only trying to advertise your failure to hold your day-job of lavatory-retriver, say so and stop boring us all with your nonsense.

Deep Sight:

Now as the discussion is now about “heavens,” let us juxtapose the muslim claims above against your interesting claims regarding Elijah zapping off to heaven with his physical body.

There's no basis for juxtaposing anything about what I understand of Elijah's case with a claim about SEVEN EARTHS. Try that for size and let's see.

Deep Sight:

Now before proceeding might I remind you that your own holy book (the bible) specifically states that physical bodies do not reside in spiritual realms. Nevertheless perhaps we can leave the Bible for a moment and reflect on exactly what spirituality entails.

I don't know where the Bible makes any claims that physical bodies do not reside in spiritual realms. Rather, I know that the Bible declares that the bodies of the saints shall be "changed" whereby "this corruptible shall have put on incorruption" (1 Cor. 15:51-54). Beyond that, the Bible shows indeed that physical bodies have been taken into the heavenly realms - as in the case with Elijah and Enoch. You have a penchant for misrepresenting what you read - the usual skit for dubious fellows.

Deep Sight:

God is an intangible transcendental being. It is well understood that God is not physical.

Oh, here we go again. Is your OOI any intangible transcendental being, DeepSight? You don't even know what your own god is, before trying to argue away at what others believe. Son, you're truly lost. But carry on. . .

Deep Sight:

We also understand that the spiritual is not the physical.

Spiritual things are not tangible in the fashion that physical things are.

I think that it is apt to re examine your understanding of that which is spiritual, if you will suggest that physical bodies ascend bodily and dwell physically in spiritual realms.

Please cut to the chase and stop wasting our time. Your churning is not getting you any nearer to your aim.

The very existence of death – a separation of the body from the spirit, if you will reflect, is enough to evince this.

Just shut up already! How many times have we been through this issue in the past and you have forever failed to show any verse for the DEATH of Elijah? The Bible leaves you a clear example in another personage where death was not involved - ENOCH. On these two cases, what have you shown to the point that they both died, DeepSight? You sound more like the deepshit you have always been known for.

Just produce ONE VERSE where it is said that Elijah died in the manner of the separation of spirit from body. Just one verse will do. If you have no such verse(s) to show that same, please shut up and end this dubious game of yours . . . of keep your duplicity forever on the loose.

Deep Sight:

The spirit leaves the body because material things are adjusted to material realms while immaterial things are adjusted to immaterial realms. This is the very reason that the spirit of man requires a physical body to dwell on earth, which is a material realm. Only when that body is set aside can the intangible spirit return to its intangible realm.

Dude, with all of that, please show me one verse where it is said that either Elijah or Enoch died. That is as simply as I can put my request over to you.

Deep Sight:

The very words “immaterial” and “intangible” as attributes of the spiritual make it resoundingly clear that it is inconceivable for a material thing to “enter” into something or someplace that is altogether intangible!

It is very conceivable for the material to enter into the spiritual or 'intangible'. Such was the case with Enoch, such is the case of the ascension of Christ, and such is the case of His appearing among His disciples while the doors were shut (John 20:19).

Deep Sight:

Supposing that a physical body such as ours may dwell in a realm which is altogether intangible is absolutely illogical in the extreme – given the very fact of the intangibility of that realm.

It is not illogical - your own argument is both extreme and illogical. When Jesus rose from the dead, His disciples were able to touch and handle Him (John 20:27). With that same glorified body, He ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9).

Not only so, but the seemingly reverse is noted as well - the spiritual meets the physical and a tangibility is established. Such was the case of the angel of the Lord who encountered Gideon (Judges 6:19-21). I know these things are far beyond you - not to worry, OOI has nothing for you that is why you go about like a lost prodigal abandoned by your rogue religion.

Deep Sight:

Again the very make of the physical body is designed to deal with a physical atmosphere – in all its functions. Do you really suppose such a body with such functionalities can enter into a realm said to be intangible?

Absolutely.

Deep Sight:

In that case I would really be puzzled as to your understanding of the word “intangible.”

Please share with me what you understand by it if it is different from what we all know that word to mean. Please do.

Deep Sight:

I want you to understand that mankind’s spiritual journey is a journey of increasing intangibility and thus a journey of increasing purity towards God. The physical body is thus but a coat which is used for the physical realm – and as we move on after death we proceed ever more intangible.

I don't have any problem with what esoteric doctrines you make for yourself. All I do care about is that you don't confuse your esoterism with other people's religions so you can misrepresent them in your career of misplaced arguments. That's all.

Deep Sight:

I verily fear that your bold affirmation that your prophet bagged his physical body into an immaterial realm and remained there with it before returning in same body centuries later to this earth is so bizarre, mythical and off-centre that if interpreted that way, all rational persons must perforce conclude that the Bible contains really simplistic myths and legends. Or that you are simply ready to believe very strange myths indeed. At the expense of that which is simple, rational and balanced.

I have no worries about that - and yes, I do believe it affirmatively. You may castigate what I believe; but I would rather believe that than commit to an OOI that has suffered the eternal plague of a damned infinity you have never been able to set on level ground for anyone to make sense of. How many people on Nairaland have made sense of your OOI?

Deep Sight:

And that is the issue of this thread. . . the authenticity of the bible.

That is the title of the thread, not the gist of the thread. Go read the OP and massage your skull. . . your deepshit already stinks.

Deep Sight:

As a post-script I should mention that I did point out that your interpretation of the Elijah story amounts to exempting him from death even before the sacrifice of Christ – which was supposedly required to save mankind from death. This shows up serious internal inconsistencies, I’m afraid, and again begs the Ops question as to the authenticity (or I would say, believability) of your scriptures.

There are no inconsistencies. All we have asked forever is show us one verse where it is said that Elijah died - that was all. Why have you never been able to show that verse instead of all this drab that trails your redundant attention-seeking adventure?

Well if your Bible teaches you such things as material bodies rising to reside bodily and materially in immaterial and intangible realms (a proposition no serious thinker would countenance), then you will have to understand why I am not able to take your book of myths any more seriously than an edition of Sesame Street.

Its that simple.

Deep Sight:

Well if your Bible teaches you such things as material bodies rising to reside bodily and materially in immaterial and intangible realms (a proposition no serious thinker would countenance), then you will have to understand why I am not able to take your book of myths any more seriously than an edition of Sesame Street.

You would be surprised the number of people who take the Bible seriously - people who can think far better than the mental zig-zag of your OOI that nobody ever makes sense of, and which you on this forum has laboured to convert only yourself. Pity.

I do understand, though - and I sympathise that you still go about like a vexed soul unable to understand his own plight. I tried, bro . . . believe me, I tried to make you see some sense, initially. But I guess I was so fresh as to be largely unware that your lost trail began before time. Keep swimming in your infinity of ignorance - it keeps souls like yours so deeply bemused.

viaro:

You would be surprised the number of people who take the Bible seriously

You would be surprised the number of brilliant people and brilliant scientists who as Hindus, take belief in the divinity of cows seriously.

You would also be surprised that brilliant people have lived in all cultures throughout the ages and have accepted all sorts of pagan doctrines as inviolable truth.

Brilliance, Viaro?

Ha.

Deep Sight:

You would be surprised the number of brilliant people and brilliant scientists who as Hindus, take belief in the divinity of cows seriously.

Brilliant people do not go about aimlessly like sons of an infinity OOI that nobody makes any sense of. And the brilliance about it is that we are able to let Hindus have their own say in what they believe instead of the drama you put up on Nairaland. FYI, that verse in the Hindu scriptures does not teach that all Hindus regard their God/god to be a cow or other bovine - so you can rest your heart and stop hiding your rogue religion on that excuse of yours.

You would also be surprised that brilliant people have lived in all cultures throughout the ages and have accepted all sorts of pagan doctrines as inviolable truth.

Yep, and we don't have any problems with people in general. Your problem is that your blind OOi does not help you live civilly with people without seeking to post your idiocy against arguments you never take time to understand in the first place.

Brilliance, Viaro?

Try me - your life will never be the same again!

Yawn.

We have just proven that people taking the bible seriously proves and shows nothing.

99% of humanity are a herd of cows in spiritual matters.

Deep Sight:

Yawn.

We have just proven that people taking the bible seriously proves and shows nothing.

99% of humanity are a herd of cows in spiritual matters.

You've proven absolutely nothing other than your OOI duplicity. Only those with the zig-zag mentality mendacity like you diplay will make 99% of humanity herds of cows simply because the remaining 1% do not give two scoobies about your OOI. You're alone in your swallowed infinity - so carry on.