macof:


You are the one who started talking about what Otem said …he said this, he said that. When asked for facts you start crying
Next time if you don’t want people to comment on what your master Otem says don’t mention him. You can’t bring up topics in public and not expect reactions

macof:

lmao you guys even have whatsapp and facebook group . is that where you learnt all these things you were teaching earlier

macof:

my brother, you are in a cult and you don't even know

A001:

When I started talking about the book in relation to the other literature on the comparison of Orunmila and Socrates, did I mention your moniker or direct any question to you?

The questions I asked about Orumila and Ifa are related to some parts of the latter book, and I have since got answers to them.

These questions were not even directed at you; yet, you're so worked up on them. Lols.

Again, if you're looking for facts or fiction in Otem's book, this thread wasn't created for such.

You can read the title of the thread again and the OP.

Many atheists and agnostics have a group online via websites, Facebook, and WhatsApp groups, and members can leave whenever they wish.


You're very confused and don't know what a cult is.

The only WhatsApp group of skeptics I belong to only posts things a couple of times in a month. No ritual, dogma, strict rules, or commitment from members, and anyone can leave at anytime without receiving any backlash or criticism.

Is that what you call a cult? Can anyone leave a cult or religion without suffering grave consequences?

I see critical thinking isn't your forte.

If your assertion is true, well that makes every group a cult then.

You need to make use of the dictionary more often because you're clearly ignorant of many words you throw around in English.

You just read some childish remarks on Nairaland and laugh

A001:


For instance, the early settlers on this planet in Yorubaland were Olohun, Osun, Oya, Yemoja, and the likes, all of which are humanoids (giant human-like entities) who molded early humans in their image as their slaves or worshippers.

The same thing applies to all cultures around the world, including Ibo, Israel, Arab, and others. Each culture as its own unique gods and goddesses that created early humans in that part of the world.

But some of these humanoids also reincarnated as homo erectus and homo sapiens.

Before the homo erectus and homo sapiens eras, there are many pieces of evidence in various parts of the world showing a race of ancient humanoids or aliens had existed on this planet some billions of years ago.

These are gods worshipped as God today in various world's religions. They're advanced beings or higher beings or early beings.

Thanks to great books like Otem's, the one shared above, and many other resources online, it's now known that all the entities worshipped as a deity around the world, including Yorubaland, Arab, etc. are the ancestors of early humans.

Olohun is the ancestor of Yorubas, just like Allah and Jehovah are the ancestors of Arabs and Israelites respectively with each claiming the title of God.

That these entities are human-like beings is quite clear if one examines their human-like traits in Yoruba oral cultures, Qur'an and the Bible respectively.

A001:

The literarure claims Luwabi lived about 140,000 years ago in the homo sapiens era as a reincarnated homo erectus.

Based on the available bodies of (dated) archeological evidence, the homo erectus era spanned around 2 million years (starting from Africa), while the current homo sapiens era started about 280,000 years ago from Africa.

We're currently in the 282,021th year of the homo sapiens era according to some classifications.

Anyone that has truly read the histories of Luwabi in that book will observe an interesting level of depth and consistency in them that make the stories look convincing and profound.

According to the histories, when Luwabi reincarnated as a homo sapiens, he even retained his writing skills as a giant homo erectus (using codes to represent signs on leaves), deep thinking and critical thinking ability, and philosophical skills and started exhibiting these things right from 10 years of age that people around him said he was a prodigy, or a genius, or the return of Ifa.

(In this part of the world and around the world, we heard by oral tales while growing up that the ancients were giants.)

It appears reincarnated people retain some of their skills and abilities/knowledge from their past life.

There's something about the histories in the book that make it look believable. Hence, I consider it very possible that Luwabi might have lived in the ancient past of Yorubaland.

But one may not really know these things for sure, considering the length of time (over 140,000 years ago) and also due to the fact that most of the histories of our forefathers in this part of the world are lost or never recorded/documented.

Then again, those patches of leaves the book said he wrote on wouldn't be able to last for that long, not even 100 years let alone 140,000.

I don't think anyone living today can trace his genealogy back to hundreds, thousands of years in the past (except Otem who says he knows his history right from the Beginning; he posted it on one of his threads and contains his encounters with Olorun, quite interesting with some scientific aspects).

If interested, you may check it here, quite fascinating and with a lot of depth: https://www.nairaland.com/4462945/otem-sapiens-historical-account-saviour

This inability of most living people today to trace their genealogy back to several years in the past shows a majority of the histories of our forefathers are lost or never recorded/documented.

The book narrates Orunmila (being a giant humanoid from the beginning) had reincarnated as a homo sapiens as a reciter of the verses of Ifa (Ifa had reincarnated before him as a homo sapiens) some 100,000 years in the homo sapiens era after Luwabi came back to Earth again the second time — and that there was even a writer with the name Sodeke that lived in this region within 265,000 – 280,000 years of the homo sapiens epoch as a reteller of the stories of Luwabi.

According to the book, there was even a flood era about 195,000 – 230,000 years ago in different parts parts of the world where many histories of people and world events were lost.

So far, there's been no scientific evidence that a flood era had once occurred on Earth but that doesn't mean there was no such era.

Ifaodu verses, for all their greatness and rich ideas and fascinating use of the language, don't contain detailed information about the different human species in history (homo sapiens, homo erectus, and earlier species) mainly because many of our forefathers weren't scientifically inclined and couldn't develop dating technologies like the whites.

For instance, when talking about Sango or Ogun, no information is given whether he's a nephilim, anakim, rephalm, homo erectus, etc. That classification is highly important for scholarly works and critical analyses.

In that aspect, Otem's book of history has done a wonderful job based on my own critique.

macof:


Why would you post something in public and tell people not to react? you can by all means feel uncomfortable with their reaction but you cannot tell me not to respond.

macof:


I asked you why take all that seriously, and you said because otem speaks facts. I am still waiting for the facts till now. Your inability to provide the facts from otem's book is what is getting you worked up.
to make it clear, if i was praising otem here you wouldn't say you didn't mention my moniker

You are the one who is confused and worked up, i am actually very calm and watching you embarass yourself.

macof:

i can see you are the one who needs a dictionary. you don't have to face grave consequences if you want to leave before your group becomes a cult. many cults allow members leave, if members are strong enough to resist the psychological hold the cult has on them.

you should take your advice and use a dictionary

macof:

critical thinking isn't my forte?? but it is yours

what critical thinking made you post this?


or this

A001:

The person I directed the questions to already answered them and shared his thoughts.

And the discussion is closed.

Your rantings are of no use to me.

You clearly don't know when to stop. Otem's book with over 1300 pages has many historical facts as well as many unverified claims.

There are more than enough historical facts I can post from it on this thread, but that will only derail the thread as the relevant parts of the literature related to this thread have already been discussed.

No need for a further discussion on the book. And if you're seeking a critical review of the literature, this thread isn't one.

Again, you're merely speaking ignorantly. Lols.

What psychological hold does a WhatsApp group of sceptics have on its members?

You mean the group which this thread talks about has a physiological hold on its members: https://www.nairaland.com/6712597/having-doubts-faith-not-alone

Lols.

Nairaland must also be one big cult then. LMFAO The Cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

You're not only confused but also superstitious.

This group in question was even created by an atheist on Nairaland here in August who doesn't even take Otem's book seriously. Lols.

This man and his risible posts

This shows you're not widely read. Is Otem the first person to talk about UFOs and aliens?

Lols.

You don't know UFOs (unidentified flying objects) and UAPs (unidentified aerial phenomena) are active research areas in the US military, and in the Astrophysics, and Extraterrestrial or Planetary Science departments of various schools?

Lols.

There are even various papers on the subject published in reputable journals.

macof:

the discussion would be closed when you provide the facts you spoke about.

macof:

fair enough, it is your choice to respond and how to respond but let it be clear that you cannot present absurd illogical statements from a book and cry when probed. let me remind you as i said before you made several statements about the content of the book trying to teach us what the book says telling us it has a lot of depth. I asked you why would anybody take any of that seriously and you told me Otem is a genius who wrote many facts. And so far all you have said are what you are now saying are not facts but mere "possibilities, claims" . why did you try to teach us what even you have no confidence on?

macof:

It is on record that you have failed to present any facts from the book.

macof:

please refer to the dictionary definition of a cult
and stop acting like a dog on heat

macof:

oh please cite the papers on reputable academic journals here that state "olorun is the alien or homo erectus ancestor of Yorubas"

A001:

OtemAtum is in the best position to answer this question regarding his educational background, but from what I know on Nairaland he didn't study any of those courses or History.

But what I can say is regarding the question is:

Which university did Herodotus, Faraday, Newton, and similar great thinkers attend to be able to write seminal works that millions have studied in courses for hundreds of years?

Were any of these figures professors in their field?

Which school of music did great artists like Da Vinci, Tupac, MJ, and many others go to have such wonderful gifts to produce records, which thousands of students have studied in school?

In history, many people have been able to leave indellible marks on the sands of time even without receiving formal education.

If one isn't educated within the four walls of a classroom, it doesn't mean such a one isn't educated at all.

Thomas Edison understands this deeply when he said, "genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

That one percent inspiration can be what makes all the difference in deciding whether a person lives and dies a common man or a god. Someone like Prof Wole Soyinka would also understand this clearly.

Looking at Otem's name, the source of the histories should be clear enough to people that know the various names given to Atum in ancient Egypt.

Then, anyone that has read the book with an open mind will recognize the genius of the writer.

People take him seriously because of many reasons:

1. The Seriot language, which has the elements of a natural language
2. It's beyond the capability of a single person to put the content of that book together with that depth and still invent a new language that looks natural
3. The author uses an approach that looks scientific and encourages skepticism and critical thinking
4. Some of the assertions of the author have a lot of depth and scientific explanations
5. Many of the histories in the book have a lot of depth and are consistent with some other books corroborating the author's assertions.
6. Atum is the creator of ancient Egypt and is the chief source of the author (ancient Egypt and their pyramids are fascinating)
7. The book doesn't promote any religion or god. It's a book of history and philosophy.

There are other reasons, but these ones are okay.

Whenever I read the book, the picture of Herodotus comes to mind.

Which school did the great thinker attend that earned him the title, "the father of history"?

During his time, some of his contemporaries also mocked him, saying that his works wouldn't stand the test of time. But they were wrong.

macof:
Lmao. You cannot post the facts but you can post this?


Herodotus, faraday, newtow, thomas edison, da vinci... all the people you mentioned were educated or nurtured in their field or similar fields, they were amongst the most priviledged of their time. You cannot compare your otem to herodotus or da vinci. besides this is 2021 not 1721, you cannot be presenting information as if you are a pioneer, there are countless scholars in the field of history, physics, anthropology, paleontolgy etc which Otem is dabling in
And since all the people you mentioned we have acquired greater knowledge, used the parts of their work that is useful and discarded those that are not.
Herodotus for example, was born in a greek town controlled by the persians and therefore was privi to knowledge behind much of his notes he was also well travelled and made inquiries as he met new people yet many things he wrote is not regarded as accurate..so get that straight

lmao so the source of Otem's "history of the universe" is ancient egypt? is Otem an egpytologist? has he been to the tombs of the pharaohs, has he transliterated hieroglyphics? which renowned egyptologists are his sources or research partners? is his book peer-reviwed or associated with an academic institution?

The things you listed are not serious things
1. There is nothing special about a fictional author inventing a fictional language. Infact it happens often. Lord of the rings, Dune, A song of Ice and Fire and many more fictions as i mentioned before have fictional languages with elements of natural languages
2. Have you read Game of thrones? or any of the other books from the "a song of ice and fire" series? you would get indepth world building, different fictiona languages and a long span of ancestral geneology. That is what he called "creativity" don't underestimate it
3. "look" but it is not. I have gone through his threads as you recommended and there is no scientific method applied
4 & 5. He uses some already established and well known science to justify some of his ideas but the ideas themselves are not scientific. you have an idea from your imagination and you try to justify it by trying to attach some science to it. This is what every good fiction does. Good authors apply some real world science to ground their escapist imaginative world and make it less nonsensical. Hence you have Otem talking about real world archaic hominidae like homo erectus and even giving fairly accurate datings to their fossil finds but Otem is not teaching about Homo erectus, if we want to learn about homo erectus we would approach proper sources that are specific to the subject
6. lmao, i thought you said you were athiest or agnostic so the ancient egyptian God Atem is the source of what Otem is teaching you and you know this how? because Otem says so? Mehn if this isn't a cult
7. Except it doesn't use any historical methods or historical sources. And as for Philosophy, even this is grounded on the use of other disciplines so you would be compelled to work with the laws and methods of those disciplines

seriously though, i see you are hungry for knowledge and that is why you probably left the religion you were in before, but there are lots of crazy stuff out there, best you be careful not to jump from fry pan to the fire

A001:

I haven't seen any reason to provide any facts when I didn't even ask you to believe any of the assertions I made in the first place.

Discussing those facts isn't the purpose of creating this thread. If you need to know the historical facts in the book, get it and learn.

This thread isn't meant for that.

Lols. You think I'm a jobless fellow that will waste precious time here discussing historical facts in the book when this thread isn't meant for such.

You just look like a joker to me anyway because the historical facts you seek are in many of Otem's threads. But I purposefully decided not to post any here because I don't have the time to engage in lengthy discussions on that subject, which will derail the thread.

If there's any thread that needs my attention now, it's the one (link below) I made to discuss concepts, laws, principles, and discoveries in Physics which I've only been able to update four times or so within the past six weeks due to my busy schedule.

https://www.nairaland.com/6690123/all-science-key-facts-researches

I had planned to update it daily when I created the thread.

macof:

let me remind you as i said before you made several statements about the content of the book trying to teach us what the book says telling us it has a lot of depth. I asked you why would anybody take any of that seriously and you told me Otem is a genius who wrote many facts. And so far all you have said are what you are now saying are not facts but mere "possibilities, claims" . why did you try to teach us what even you have no confidence on?

It is on record that you have failed to present any facts from the book. And this is what is making you bi*ch around

A001:
I intentionally don't want to do so because the facts you seek are on different threads of the author here on Nairaland. But you're too lazy to read and only want to derail the thread with your childish rantings.

Once you agree you're a cultist because you are a member of Nairaland, that means you're right.

It's you who need to check the meaning of cult, claim, fact, possibility since you use these words embarrassingly without knowing their meaning.

Lols. This man is so ignorant. There are concrete bodies of evidence in the form of tons of archeological fossils showing homo erectuses lived on this planet before our own species, homo sapiens.

And you think Yorubaland is an exception? Lols. The African origin of humankind isn't even a claim but a well established fact in Archeology and Paleontology.

When it comes to the origin of humans, it's the dominant view in those fields.

It's obvious you didn't go through the links I posted earlier. You'll find the papers you seek there.

In various cultures around the world including Yorubaland, the ancients were said to be giants (homo erectuses), which are human species predating homo sapiens.

About the Olohun part, I stated this earlier: "For instance, the early settlers on this planet in Yorubaland were Olohun, Osun, Oya, Yemoja, and the likes, all of which are humanoids (giant human-like entities) who molded early humans in their image as their slaves or worshippers.

The same thing applies to all cultures around the world, including Ibo, Israel, Arab, and others. Each culture as its own unique gods and goddesses that created early humans in that part of the world."

That's my own position based on the books I read. People have various positions and theories on the origin of humanity, but evolution is the only established concept in science.

Again, I made the highlighted clear in one of my posts you quoted, but your emotional reactions to my posts won't let you see things right under your nose.

A001:

This Otem's issue dey give religious people like you a lot of headache.

Again, this is not the thread and the time for this discussion.

I didn't bother to read that long epistle because it's only derailing the thread.

macof:
i am religious? lmao
apparently you do not know macof on this forum

A001:

Yea, you sound like them.

I see Otem's writings give you a lot of headache, and you're keen to discuss them.

But this thread wasn't created for that purpose. Any interested reader can do a critical analysis of the book later.

The relevant aspects of the book related to the other literature have already been examined, and the discussion is done and dusted.

Whether the book is a book of facts or fiction, as you say, is really of no concern to me at this period.

Please, stop detailing the thread with your rantings about the book. It's like pouring water into an empty basket.

macof:
nah, actually i just realized you do know me, you used to follow me and i just checked that you unfollowed because i challenged your darling master otem . I see you are just disturbed and think anybody who calls your bullshit is doing so out of religion. what religious sentiments did you grab from any of my comments? hilarious

A001:

I dislike ignorant people, and you behave like one.

Otem himself knows I'm only his fan here. I don't have a master since I don't belong in a cult, and I question and challenge all kinds of knowledge and doctrines.

Just rest with your agenda. You're wasting your time.

macof:
says the ignoramus who can't
1. define a cult even after seeing a dictionary defintion.. like how retarded do you have to be for that to even be possible
2. somehow thought "provide academic journals that state olorun is an alien or homo erectus ancestor of yorubas" is the same as saying homo erectus did not exist

when you don't have anything sensible in your head
nah, you are the ignorant one desperate for a master

macof:
says the ignoramus who can't
2. somehow thought "provide academic journals that state olorun is an alien or homo erectus ancestor of yorubas" is the same as saying homo erectus did not exist

A001:



Nairaland and silly folks.

Arguing with low IQ people can really be such a drudgery!

Who calls a WhatsApp group a cult when the members don't hold meetings physically, have no strict rules, dogmas, and rituals?

I've never seen any of the authors I mentioned their book, and one ignorant mofo is talking about belonging to a cult.

This is the height of stupidity

A001:

Read the below statement I made earlier again and have a dictionary nearby to aid your understanding:
"For instance, the early settlers on this planet in Yorubaland were Olohun, Osun, Oya, Yemoja, and the likes, all of which are humanoids (giant human-like entities) who molded early humans in their image as their slaves or worshippers.

The same thing applies to all cultures around the world, including Ibo, Israel, Arab, and others. Each culture as its own unique gods and goddesses that created early humans in that part of the world.

That's my own position based on the books I read. People have various positions and theories on the origin of humanity, but evolution is the only established concept in science."

macof:




you are not bright at all. I asked where are the papers that say "olorun is an alien or homo erectus ancestor of the yorubas" nothing in this question implies a challenge to the existence of archaic hominidae, my knowledge of evolutionary biology is vastly above yours so get that straight first of all.
My question to you is to support your statement that Olorun is an alien or homo erectus or an ancestor of the yorubas. simple english. for someone who has been shouting about english and saying "check the menaing", "check the meaning" you sure have big problems comprehending english.

There is no tradition in yorubaland of the ancients being giants. and homo erecti were not giants


lmao. this is hilarious. what has evolution (biology) got to do with the cultural origin of ethnic spiritualities and religious traditions? What is the correlation between the cultural figure of Osun with aliens or homo erectus (whom you call "giant human-like entities" ). Deities are a part of culture and traditions and culture and traditions evolve, they are a result of experience not clairvoyance, so different cultures will obviously have different deities because they have and have had different experiences not because different ethnicities were created by different deities..but of course related ethnicities would tend to have many deities especially the most important ones that are theological equivalents tracable to a common tradition like linguists such as Christopher Ehret describe about the supreme deity among Niger-congo speakers deriving from *nyambe - the Proto-niger congo supreme deity - "the Beginner".
This is how the cultural origin of deities are studied by scholars

This your comment is like scientology - there is nothing scientific about it, you are taking scientific theories and turning them up side down to fit a notion of knowledge of the universe by "revelation" and "imagination". This is what happens when you take sci-fi and other fictions seriously.

macof:
the height of stupidity is not being able to comprehend. you have underdeveloped cognitive prowess

macof:

A001:

Read the comment again, and check what position or theory means in a dictionary since you obviously don't know that both are different from a fact like evolution.

This is the kind of posts you make when you think emotionally, and not critically.

A001:


For instance, the early settlers on this planet in Yorubaland were Olohun, Osun, Oya, Yemoja, and the likes, all of which are humanoids (giant human-like entities) who molded early humans in their image as their slaves or worshippers.

The same thing applies to all cultures around the world, including Ibo, Israel, Arab, and others. Each culture as its own unique gods and goddesses that created early humans in that part of the world.

But some of these humanoids also reincarnated as homo erectus and homo sapiens.

Before the homo erectus and homo sapiens eras, there are many pieces of evidence in various parts of the world showing a race of ancient humanoids or aliens had existed on this planet some billions of years ago.

These are gods worshipped as God today in various world's religions. They're advanced beings or higher beings or early beings.

Thanks to great books like Otem's, the one shared above, and many other resources online, it's now known that all the entities worshipped as a deity around the world, including Yorubaland, Arab, etc. are the ancestors of early humans.

Olohun is the ancestor of Yorubas, just like Allah and Jehovah are the ancestors of Arabs and Israelites respectively with each claiming the title of God.

That these entities are human-like beings is quite clear if one examines their human-like traits in Yoruba oral cultures, Qur'an and the Bible respectively.

macof:
""For instance, the early settlers on this planet in Yorubaland were Olohun, Osun, Oya, Yemoja, and the likes, all of which are humanoids (giant human-like entities) who molded early humans in their image as their slaves or worshippers"

This is an affirmative statement. get some sense learn to stop making affirmative statements that you cannot support, statements that once you are questioned you run around it instead of facing it and presenting why you made the statement in the first place.


oh interesting how you are still here commenting but you still have not presented any of the facts from the book. or what you are doing now isn't derailing the thread? lmao bloody underdeveloped retarrd

macof:
here is the full comment again


These are affirmative statements. get some sense learn to stop making affirmative statements that you cannot support, statements that once you are questioned you run around it instead of facing it and presenting why you made the statement in the first place. just imagine the nonsense the foolish boy is saying here


oh interesting how you are still here commenting but you still have not presented any of the facts from the book. or what you are doing now isn't derailing the thread? lmao bloody underdeveloped retarrd

Crystyano:



A001 is so quick to calling you names whenever you say he's wrong

But that doesn't mean he's right


I expect him to start calling me names after reading this

A001:
All these researchers that translate the strange languages in the pictures below and students taking lectures on them must be all be cultists

Nairaland and comic relief! Some ignorant comments on this forum can be so hilariously silly.

Crystyano:


Otem is wrong about certain things such as reality having a beginning

A001:

Like I said earlier, you'll soon delete this your new account again like the old one when it's given a lengthy ban.

Crystyano:



A001 is so quick to calling you names whenever you say he's wrong

But that doesn't mean he's right


I expect him to start calling me names after reading this

A001:

Post the comment where he said so, even though I know he never told you that.

macof:

The guy is young and frankly not in possession of commendable cognition
He is only arguing and not actually saying anything
He makes an affirmative statement now, you tell him to explain or support it he does one of two things
1. Present a point that you didnt ask for and has no correlation with your question
2. Where he cannot present anything he says it was just a position not a fact

Then why are you so defensive if it is only a position? Why take a claim so seriously and obsessively repeating it all over? Why use affirmative language in the first place?
They are more than claims to him but he knows he cannot support them

The name calling are a reaction to his helplessness

macof:

The guy is young and frankly not in possession of commendable cognition
He is only arguing and not actually saying anything
He makes an affirmative statement now, you tell him to explain or support it he does one of two things
1. Present a point that you didnt ask for and has no correlation with your question
2. Where he cannot present anything he says it was just a position not a fact

Then why are you so defensive if it is only a position? Why take a claim so seriously and obsessively repeating it all over? Why use affirmative language in the first place?
They are more than claims to him but he knows he cannot support them

The name calling are a reaction to his helplessness